JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Facts and “Chemtrail” Fictions

Posts Tagged ‘stratosphere

Letter

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PAGE CONTENTS

LETTER – LETTIS PREY – LIES, DAMNED LIES – LIES II – LINK – LINKUE – LIZ – LOOKING AT WATER – LUDOSOPHIST – LYNN – MARC 1 – MARC 2 – MARIUS – MEAT

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

LETTER 

alex

 Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.

I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I’m entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.

richard

Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn’t been written by the CIA or FBI.

Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.

At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed “experts” because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.

When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.

As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.

Read my blog… 

LETTIS PREY

JEFFLETTIS“retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you’ll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail” – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU’RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!

bonkers21 LIES, DAMNED LIES,

 AND ‘COUNTERKNOWLEDGE’

Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.

Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History

George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
“Creation science” disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these “secrets”? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.

This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.

We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.

Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.

Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.

I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his “doubts” about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: “Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn’t generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that.” The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. “You’re right,” they said. “It did seem strange…”

Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.

The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.

The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. “Expert testimony” is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.

Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy’s government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: “I think it is possible.”

Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed “without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services”. Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to “the myth of the Jews’ massacre”.

In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: “The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics.”

We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other’s fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other’s eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.

In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a “man-made Pentagon genocide”, that Pope Paul VI “was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978”, that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.

Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.

But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.

The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.

Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and “superfoods” that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.

Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.

The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.

But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.

These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.

Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that “the British Government was involved in some way” with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.

The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.

‘Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History’ by Damian Thompson 

bonkers
bonkers

LIES

“Please quote any “lie” I have mentioned to you” OK, WILL DO

“The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees” – FALSE
“Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions” – FALSE
“you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails” – LIE
“no credentials” – LIE
“are a government debunker” – LIE
“unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue” – LIE
“your spam postings” – LIE
“over and over you continue to waste space” – LIE
“you offer no information” – LIE
“Post after post you avoid this”
– LIE
“with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect” – LIE
“You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish” – LIE
“You must dance because you sure dance around the issue” – LIE
“your time wasting typing” – LIE
“all you discuss is how a cloud forms” – LIE
“doesn’t have the guts to do the real science” – LIE
“you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn’t” – LIE
“no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails” – LIE
“so called experience” – LIE
“Useless posting and disinformation” – LIE
“of a so called engineer” – LIE
“I have made no claim of any lethal status” – IMPLICIT LIE
“you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts” – LIE
“sham” – LIElies

That’s TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer. 

LINK

there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work. 

LINKUE (A QUOTE)

This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.

It’s analogous…

Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.

constitution

Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban. 

LIZ

email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don’t relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?

I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven’t responded.

Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for “chemtrails”, it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.

You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.

Aerosol “sprays” may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only “aerosol sprays” that exist.

I am glad that you think that “almost all” of my “posts on the subject are true”. Which posts do you think are NOT?

It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.

Get real. I’m living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn’t strike the individual as hard as it does in the “temperate zone”, and I just get by.

The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.

Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date. 

LOOKING AT WATER

You’re looking at WATER…

Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.

1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable. 

LUDOSOPHIST

“The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.

You’ll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly.”

Bless him… he toned his “probability” down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :

LYNN

Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth’s atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That’s ALL! 

MARC 1

Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)

Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don’t know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).

As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN’T looking: it’s called the “observer effect”. The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.

Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.

The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth’s surface.

So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.

In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That’s 6% of the whole.

Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT. 

MARC 2

Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.

Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that’s all.

Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…

I have two friends with interesting stories…

The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn’t once…

The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council’s claims otherwise. He HASN’T been bothered by authorities: he’s kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…

Try this Vaughan-Williams’ composition – he’s a Welshman like me.

We are a more Latin race than you Saxons… 

MARIUS

“I’ve heard you’ve gotten acquainted with JP” – much to my surprise, yes

“I’m Marius” – and I’m Tony

“Nice to meet you” – hmm. We’re not “meeting”. Meeting would be better…

“He told me you were well worth the talk” – How does he know?

“In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots” – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.

“I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories” – me too. JFK is reason enough.

“I’m having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies” – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I’d never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.

bard

The Bard of Ely - he's green but he ain't mean...

Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I’d JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…

“I’ve barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?” NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I’ve heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.

“Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? “let’s jump on the conspiracy wave”-thing?” – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don’t do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn’t an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.

“Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?” – It’s 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)

“I’m from Norway, myself. It’s nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million” – half that here

“Have a nice day!” – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.

MEAT

(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author’s name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he’s more flattered than offended. )

THEY’RE MADE OUT OF MEAT by Terry Bisson

“They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

Meat. They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So … what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal!  Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”

“Both.”

“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …”

Director: Stephen O’Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds

pc0100371
westward view just before sunset at Las Americas

Driving Around Town

with 2 comments

PAGE CONTENTS

ME DRIVING AROUND TOWN – MEN AT WORK – MILITARY – MINNIS AT WORK – MORONS STUMBLE INTO OFFICE – MUST WORK – NICSCICS “NICKED” – MAKING THE 777

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

ME DRIVING AROUND TOWN

TheChemTrailReport
Dude, the writing is on the wall, give us all a break!

writing_on_the_wall

jazzroc
Contrails ARE a man-made cirrus. The daily dumping of a MILLION TONS of ICE into the very cold and rarefied stratosphere is LIKELY to SATURATE it. The WAVE VORTEX of each passing plane is a powerful STIRRER. It would be unreasonable for you to expect blue skies as a consequence. Do you ever travel by air?

p-contrails

If that writing on that wall weren’t an incoherent scrawl of mistakes, myths, lies, and deceit, without a SINGLE evidential trail, I WOULD give you a ‘break’.
But there is NOTHING there…
I quote: “Let us stop the fakers & hoaxers who ruin the credibilty of certain subjects with their moronic videos who spread lies, hate & deceit, catching people in their web of delusion. We are against doom and gloomers & UBDCT’s: “uneducated basement dwelling conspiracy theorists.” It is not a crime to expose the slanderous lies these people tell, and debunk their videos with conclusive evidence, more like a social duty.”
MeDrivingAroundTown
like planes leaving long “clouds” that linger for hours and turn nice days into shitty ones, and speaking of shitty, watch you tone with me pal, you are coming off as a total asshole.
I thought you said you watched the whole 9:56 of the video. I am talking about about those black clouds at the end of the video the planes left behind. let me explain a simple fact to you, I live in Las Vegas, you might not know this, but Vegas is like a small island surrounded by desert, we have one major airport, and one major air force base, and outside of the city limits there is no other major cities for hours. its like living in a fish bowl, its easy to notice things

DontSprayMeBro
personally, i think they have turned the atmosphere into a huge plasma screen. it ought to get interesting around the 17th of this month when we switch to all digital delivery of television signals.

wow makenwaves, you got hit by epoxynous and jazzroc! that puts you in the bigs! keep posting, and keep watching the sky and the weather for more freak tornados, downpours, droughts, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature.
p.s. thanks to jazzroc for bagging the soda pop line…

MeDrivingAroundTown
I am going to post a new video every Sunday night, because I have noticed Chem trails every Sunday Morning, and from this week forward, I am going to document it, and along with it I am going to post numbers and address to local and national offices that people can use to express their thoughts on the matter. its time to start asking the right people some serious questions, and don’t worry, Jazzroc will not be listed.

gnorville
Contrails mon. Go to wikipedia and type in “contrail”, for a pretty good explanation of the mechanism. The planes in your vid that did not have contrails were too low for them to form. It’s thought that contrails affect the weather, but I’m not sure it’s been proven positively.
There are NO chemtrails. That’s bs from the fringe. They want you to buy their books and videos. Of course, if you’re a true believer, I’ve wasted my time typing this. Truth, reason and logic does not apply to them.

MEN AT WORK

Men at WORK…
DUST in air,
Pollens flying everywhere…

City smogs,
Sun, wind, air,
Distribute “poisons” everywhere.

See a trail…
‘Tis but a CLOUD,
It’s IGNORANCE that shouts so LOUD!

MILITARY

“pictures prior to 1998 hardly showed vapor trails” – Wrong. First seen 1943 US B17s daylight bombing of Nazi Germany from 29,000 feet. All stratospheric flights since.

“identified as military KC-135 planes” – ALL planes leave vapor trails, short to long, dependent on stratospheric humidity.

“why do they appear when humidity v. low” – THERE’S NO CONNECTION between troposphere and stratosphere. It can be (and often is) DRY down here and WET up there.

“why can’t they be tracked on flight explorer?” – KC-135s? Why can’t you track the MILITARY on flight explorer? Are you serious?

MINNIS AT WORK

www.forum.planeta.com – The difference has led to some surprises, said Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist.

www.greenbug.synthasite.com – From those isolated contrails, unmixed as they were with the usual dozens of others, Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center, and his colleagues were able to gain valuable insight into how a single contrail forms. Those once-in-a-lifetime data sets are so useful that Minnis is about to analyze them again in an expanded study.

Briefly Empty Skies Offer Climate Clues
The ideal way to measure such an effect would be to look at the same piece of sky when air traffic is heavy and when it is absent, said Dr. Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
But the skies are never devoid of aircraft. At least that was the case until Sept. 11.
Since then, Dr. Minnis and others have been reviewing satellite images of clouds and contrails. “Near dusk on the 11th, the only contrails in the East were three streaks heading from Nebraska to Washington, almost certainly Air Force One and its escort taking President Bush from Offutt Air Force Base to the White House”, Dr. Minnis said.
Everything matched, he said: “the trajectory and timing and the fact that nothing else was flying.” The most valuable data were collected the next day. Only nine military flights crossed a region from Ohio to Virginia, an area normally cloaked in cirrus clouds from the 700 to 800 jets crossing daily, Dr. Minnis said.
With those images, his team was able to chart precisely how those nine threadlike contrails fanned out over five hours to form a shield of cirrus clouds covering 24,000 square miles.
Dr. Minnis provided other satellite views of the area on a more typical day which show a broad area of clouds fringed by fading contrails. Having an isolated view of individual contrails spreading into clouds should allow scientists to refine computer systems that scan satellite images for contrails’ effects, he said. “Ultimately,” he said, “the observations will refine computer models of the overall effect of aviation on climate”.

AGU newly elected Fellows
Patrick Minnis NASA/ LARC, Hampton, VA

AReCO in the News
NASA scientist Patrick Minnis has studied contrails and believes they may have a prominent role in global warming. A 2002 report by the British Scientific Commission agrees, concluding that “aviation-induced cirrus clouds will be a significant contributor to warming.” But Minnis says another NASA study concludes that the contrails have little effect on global warming. Further research is being done.

ATCA
Contrails, the thin, white clouds that planes leave behind in the sky, are responsible for a portion of the warming recorded in the USA from 1975 to 1994, says Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Virginia. During that period, the USA’s average temperature rose by 1 degree – hardly a heat wave, but significant by climate standards.
Minnis acknowledges that it’s difficult to calculate exactly how much of the U.S. warming is attributable to contrails. It could be only a small fraction. Even so, he says, the contribution is “significant.”

Air Traffic
A research team of American and German scientists, headed by Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reports evidence that contrails cause a warming of the Earth’s atmosphere.
From those isolated contrails, unmixed as they were with the usual dozens of others, Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at NASA’s Langely Research Center, and his colleagues were able to gain valuable insight into how a single contrail forms. Those once-in-a-lifetime data sets are so useful that Minnis is about to analyze them again in an expanded study.
In a study published in 2004, for example, Minnis and colleagues reported that contrails are capable of increasing average surface temperatures sufficiently to account for a warming trend in the U.S. between 1975 and 1994.

But some climatologists believe Minnis and his colleagues may have overestimated the contrail warming effect.
For his part, Minnis intends to keep his eye on condensation trails and their aftereffects.

why.michaelpatrick.org
“This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,” said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
The study was published April 15 in the Journal of Climate.”During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,” he added.
“This study indicates that contrails already have substantial regional effects where air traffic is heavy, such as over the United States.As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,” Minnis said.

www.newspath.cbs.com
Patrick Minnis NASA Contrail Scientist “IT COULD BE AN INFLUENCE WE REALLY HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT”
When air traffic was grounded after September 11th — NASA scientist Patrick Minnis was astonished to see contrails from just 6 fighter jets cover more than 11-thousand square miles.
“WE LEARNED THAT ONE CONTRAIL CAN PRODUCE A VERY LARGE CLOUD ALL BY ITSELF.”
Other scientists noticed that without commercial traffic show thermometer readings with the red temp range increasing from 80 to 78 … to 80 to 75) to temperature swings between daytime highs and nighttime lows widened by as much as 5 degrees. Minnis now believes contrail clouds increased surface temperatures in the United States up to one full degree between 1975 and 1994.
“IT’S JUST ONE OF A NUMBER OF AIRCRAFT EFFECTS THAT TOGETHER COULD RELEASE A SIGNIFICANT SIGNAL … ”

www.themonsterguide.com
Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric researcher with California Environmental Resources Evaluation System (CERES) and ardent chemtrails critic at NASA’s Langley Research Center, reports that cirrus cloud cover over the US is up 5 percent overall because particulates in engine exhaust are acting as cloud-forming nuclei.

www.geotimes.org
in their limited airspace, says Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. Contrails form and then disperse to look almost exactly like cirrus clouds.
Minnis and his co-workers tracked them to see how they spread, presenting their results at a 2002 meeting of the American Meteorological Society and incorporating the data into models.
On a global scale, Minnis’ team reported in the April Journal of Climate that from 1971 to 1995, cirrus coverage increased over the northern oceans, the United States and Western Europe, matching growth in air traffic over those regions. Eastern Asia also saw an increase. Humidity measurements incorporated into the study, Minnis says, indicate where contrails (and cirrus) were likely.
“When it comes to human impacts on climate”, Minnis says, “contrails are one of the most visible.”

www.newsvirginian.com
On this point of fact, the program’s government expert, Pat Minnis of NASA claimied that all exhaust, commercial and military, was perfectly normal.
The Associated Press distributed a lengthy article, praising the findings of Minnis.

www.themonsterguide.com
‘This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,’ said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
The study was published April 15, 2004 in the Journal of Climate. ‘During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,’ he added.
‘It indicates that contrails should be included in climate change scenarios,’ Minnis said. Minnis determined the observed one percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States is likely due to air traffic-induced contrails.
Using published results from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (New York) general circulation model, Minnis and his colleagues estimated contrails and their resulting cirrus clouds would increase surface and lower atmospheric temperatures by 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade. Weather service data reveal surface and lower atmospheric temperatures across North America rose by almost 0.5 degree Fahrenheit per decade between 1975 and 1994. www.agu.org/inside/fellows2009.html

www.mydomainwebhost.com
“The jury is out on the impact of contrails,” said Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Langley, Virginia.

www.climatechangedebate.org
Project scrambling for funds “We’re scrambling trying to find other funding,” so far unsuccessfully, says Patrick Minnis, a NASA atmospheric scientist who is a leading figure in contrails research.
Meanwhile, scientific data are growing ominous: *Cirrus cloud cover has increased an average of 5 percent over three National Weather Service stations in Northern California since 1971, says Minnis, who is based at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
It is presently impossible to know how much, if at all, Minnis said. But he says that much increase in cirrus cloud cover would cause anywhere from 0.5 to 1.2 degrees Fahrenheit increase in temperature “if all things held equal.”
The amount of global aircraft emissions is expected to increase by up to six times by the year 2050, based on studies by the International Civil Aviation Organization, Minnis says.
Says Minnis: “You’re going to see more contrails because the number of airplanes is increasing”.

www.paranoiamagazine.com
During the days after 9/11, when the FAA grounded all commercial flights, Smith tells us that it provided an opportunity for Dr. Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center to perform some research.
Minnis was able to study the affects of a single contrail’s movement from the Washington, D.C. corridor tracking it through the mid-Atlantic states.

www.solcomhouse.com
A research team of American and German scientists, headed by Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reports evidence that contrails cause a warming of the Earth’s atmosphere.
“If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy,’ ” says atmospheric scientist Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. “Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them.”

www.ufodewaarheid.com
According to AFP, Patrick Minnis, a senior researcher at Langley, stated that the man-made “cirrus clouds are already having an impact on climate, increasing temperatures on regional levels as much as two to five percent. “Hmmm …I wonder how long it will take my chemtrail debunker knuckledraggers to smear and eat their own? Think they’ll be calling Minnis a kooky conspiracy theorist anytime soon?

www.wischemtrail.newffl.net
Travis’ results are difficult to argue with, says Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. He and his colleagues will report their analysis of satellite images of contrails at the same conference. In a series of photos taken Sept. 12, individual cloud trails of high-flying military aircraft stand out clearly in a nearly cloud-free region west of Washington, D.C. In just a few hours, six contrails, each of which started out a few meters wide, spread to cover more than 20,000 square kilometers. The observations of these single contrails along aerial highways normally crowded with dozens of aircraft may help scientists develop better models of how contrails spread and affect climate, says Minnis.

www.complottisti.blogspot.com
Patrick Minnis (N.A.S.A.), Ayers, Rabi Palinkonda, and Dung Phan from Analytical Services and Materials, Inc., of Hampton, Va.
‘As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,’ Minnis said.

www.themonsterguide.com
It indicates that contrails should be included in climate change scenarios,’ Minnis said. Minnis determined the observed one percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States is likely due to air traffic-induced contrails.
Using published results from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (New York) general circulation model, Minnis and his colleagues estimated contrails and their resulting cirrus clouds would increase surface and lower atmospheric temperatures by 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade.
Weather service data reveal surface and lower atmospheric temperatures across North America rose by almost 0.5 degree Fahrenheit per decade between 1975 and 1994. Minnis worked with colleagues Kirk Ayers, Rabi Palinkonda, and Dung Phan from Analytical Services and Materials, Inc., of Hampton, Va.
As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,’ Minnis said. ‘This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,’ said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The study was published April 15, 2004 in the Journal of Climate. ‘During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,’ he added.

www.mygranger.com
Presenting on March 2 will be Dr. Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center.His lecture is titled “Global Warming – A Cool Appraisal.”
Currently their impact is currently small as compared to other greenhouse effects. They predict, however, that it may grow by a factor of six over the next 50 years. The researchers emphasize that these are conservative estimates, which take into account only the thicker contrails that can be readily observed.
“If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy,’ ” says atmospheric scientist Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. “Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them.”

Air Traffic Blues – Popular Science
Patrick Minnis, the senior researcher of the NASA study, admits that the outlook is gloomy. ‘It’s not like you’re never going to have a blue-sky day, he says, but you’re certainly going to have fewer and fewer’.

AirHead : News
Dr. Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reported that his team was able to use satellite photographs to track the nine contrails as they spread out to create a layer of cirrus clouds covering 24,000 square miles over five hours.

MORONS STUMBLE INTO OFFICE

Yes, they actually DO stumble into a government office, make unsubstantiated accusations, receive dull acknowledgment and bluff denial, and leave without leaving ANY document of any sort.

The hapless government is obviously perplexed, but too polite or stupid to ask WHY they are there, for he can see no reason for it.

He cannot see the tiny spy videocamera they have pointed at him. They are a 39 buck bargain buy. That is the reason. What’s that smell?

You are invited to contact Ross Bell (530) 225-5674 or email rebell@co.shasta.ca.us and ask him what he thought he was doing in a government office with a spy camera and unsubstantiated accusations.

The comments (remember YouTube comments run backwards in time) will have run on in their nasty way since this WHOLE DAY of baseless accusations and unanswered practical questions:

beachcomber2008
Hi witless, I see you’re
STILL adhomming away like there’s no tomorrow
STILL avoiding ALL the practical questions
STILL losing your temper when you’re losing
That last part was never suggested in my Jay Reynolds piece called
HOW TO RUN A CONTRAIL SCARE FOR FUN AND PROFIT
which you will find on my page “HERE”, at
jazzroc. wordpress. com
You should reread it and get back up to speed
You should learn to delegate – not defecate
Genuine Bull does it better

EnergySupply2008
Well, it has been fun exposing the incredible dishonesty of the disinformation trolls but I have some things to do. Catch all you skywatchers later.

beachcomber2008
@EnergySupply2008 Let the “evading” begin…
Why did they bring NOTHING (except of course a SPY CAMERA) to that office?
Let’s see you even START to even answer them
What was it? Ah, yes
EVADE, SPLIT & RE-EVALUATE
Get going, then…

flickervertigo1
@beachcomber2008 google: “persistent contrails”

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Also google: chemtrails and crimes against humanity.
@beachtroll2010 What exactly is your problem? How did you end up being a lousy, lowlife, lying shill, who is ruthlessly involved with trying to cover-up the illegal and murderous chemtrail spraying campaign? What happened, your parents didn’t show you any love growing up, so as a result you feel the whole world is going to suffer because of what you didn’t get as a child?

beachcomber2008
Why can’t thousands of air samplers running 24/7 find them?
How can airborne dust (containing clay, therefore aluminum) be distinguished from these particles?
Where and who are these “injured people”?
Why didn’t the “investigators” bring? this INFO into the office?
Wouldn’t it have been to their benefit to have done so?

EnergySupply2008
@beachcomber2008 “Why can’t thousands of air samplers running 24/7 find them?” Do you really think a covert operation like chemtrails would allow for data on air samplers to be released to the public? Moron. Aluminum at 6900 times and 122200 times normal in rain and snow cannot be clay. Moron.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “…Aluminum at 6900 times and 122200 times normal in rain and snow…” – please post the provenance of those samples, including when and where they were collected, who collected them, the name of the lab that did the testing, and the chain of custody from the time of sampling to the present.


beachcomber2008

@EnergySupply2008 Air samplers are privately manufactured by private companies and are are privately bought by members of the public throughout the western world
You could go and buy one tomorrow
Yet NO-ONE ANYWHERE has produced EVEN A SINGLE VERIFIED CHEMICAL ANALYSIS of the filtrate sheet out of one of these machines
There IS a good reason for this: you are all INEPT
You cannot do the science, you cannot do the math
You cannot even produce a FAKE
You haven’t a ……. clue
You just THINK you think

flickervertigo1
these “chemtrail” people are accusing… who? …of serious crimes, so they are obligated to provide evidence of those crimes, adhere to the rules of evidence and the chain of custody procedures that safeguard evidence.
but the “chemtrail” people apparenly have no concern about due process, evidence, logic or justice.
why is that?
google: “rules of evidence”
google: “chain of custody”
these guys refuse to provide any evidence, but we’re supposed to believe them…
it would be so sad, wouldnt it, if we had the altitude, temp and humidity present when these pictures were taken, and those altitudes, temps and humidities were just right for forming contrails?
it looks to me like alex jones is getting ready to ditch this “chemtrail” business… otherwise, he wouldnt have posted such an inept video. i guess it could be, though, that he’ll persist with the chemtrails, operating on the theory that texans have been dumbed down far enough that they’ll vote for him despite his loony theories. another “wait and see” situation, i spose.

beachcomber2008
@flickervertigo1 Like waiting for Nibiru


Skywitness

@flickervertigo1 Hi flicker… are you having any success today in your efforts to cover-up the truth of the ongoing chemtrail spraying campaign?

EnergySupply2008
@Skywitness The reason so many disinformation trolls get into trouble is because the deck is stacked against them. Truth can never be stiffed forever and the disinformation trolls do not even believe what they are saying. Their lack of belief puts them at a HUGE disadvantage. In those moments when they are alone with themselves, the horror of what they are doing eats them up inside.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 if you cant post evidence, give us one good reason to believe you. all we got is pictures… no flight data, no meteorological data, no samples with credible chain of custody… the rules of evidence have gone out the window. why should we believe you?

Skywitness
@EnergySupply2008 Yes it does eat them up, because somewhere in their lives there was someone who sincerely gave them love and or helped them out in their lives. They know that they are repaying decent people with hate and destruction because of all their lying in an effort to cover-up the chemtrail spraying campaign of death. No matter what they do, they can never justify their actions within themselves and as a result they suffer.

EnergySupply2008
@Skywitness I have a different theory. I believe that anyone who could be so adamant that chemtrails are not real, when they clearly are, has never really had anyone love them. Their parents were neanderthals who did not show them love, therefore, they hate everybody because they never learned to love even their parents.

Skywitness
@EnergySupply2008 You might be right…I think I’ll go ask the beachtroll what his problem is.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 Actually, Alex Jones said about three weeks ago that his chemtrail film will be out in late summer, early fall.

flickervertigo1
given the absence of proof, we have to assume that this chemtrail propaganda project is nothing more than an effort to befuddle americans… which will make them easier to herd around. let’s see some real evidence… or are you content with a system of “trial by youtube”, due process, justice and evidence are irrelevant.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 In war, one should never reveal their game plan to the enemy. Chemtrails are war on the people and? the people will prevail, good always does eventually. The evidence you seek is in the sky in plain view.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 says, “The evidence you seek is in the sky in plain view.” what pressure altitude are the airplanes flying at? what is the temperature and humidity at that altitude? you have no idea about the altitude, temperature and humidity, so we have no idea whether or not contrails are possible. we seem to be pressing the limits of gullibility, here.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 You forget that you signed up with Youtube just today and came straight to this video with strong anti-chemtrails crapola. YOU cannot even be honest about what your real account name is so YOU have NO credibility here. YOU are a non-person.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 if your lawsuits are gonna have any chance of success, you’re gonna have to come up with credible evidence. so far, you’ve been unable to provide any credible evidence. that evidence would include, of course, data showing the altitude of the airplanes, and the temperature and humidity at that altitude. none of that has anything to do with my youtube account, does it?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 As I said, this is war, and I would not reveal the evidence people are working on, because you do not give your enemy that info.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “this is war, and I would not reveal the evidence people are working on, because you do not give your enemy that info.” it’s so convenient for you, isnt it…?…so very convenient that you’ve absolved yourself from the responsibility of providing evidence… most likely because you can’t. do you suppose the altitude of your “chemtrail” airplanes is secret? …is the temperature and humidity of the air mass they’re flying through secret, too?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 Altitude, temperature and humidity bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. 50 years, no white lines in sky, 25 months MASSIVE white lines in the sky. Nice try though.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “50 years, no white lines in sky, 25 months MASSIVE white lines in the sky.” …and we’re supposed to take your word for that, just like we’re supposed to take your word for the existence of “chemtrails”… despite your unwillingess to provide evidence or data. you seem to be unable to understand the big thing here: if you could provide reliable evidence, we would have to believe your stories. but you got no evidence.

.
EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 “and we’re supposed to take your word for that” Check out this video with no less that 41 chemtrails and tell me that is normal.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “…no less that 41 chemtrails”. how many operations happen daily at atlanta?  in conditions of persistent contrails, what would be so astounding about 41 contrails in the sky at the same time?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 “in conditions of persistent contrails, what would be so astounding about 41 contrails in the sky at the same time?” Lived 50 years, NEVER saw one damn “persistant contrail” – In the past 25 months I have seen at least 7000 of them and possible as many as 20000.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “…NEVER saw one damn “persistant contrail” ah. maybe you should google “persistent contrails”, then.

beachcomber2008
@flickervertigo1 He will have not understood you.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 and for good measure, google: “contrail cirrus”.

mikemb123
@EnergySupply2008 ” If your enemy is superior, evade him. If angry, irritate him. If equally matched, fight, and if not split and reevaluate.” – Sun Tzu, the art of war [as quoted by Bud Fox in the movie “Wall Street”]

beachcomber2008
@mikemb123 Sun Tzu and YOU? You’d better EVADE, SPLIT & RE-EVALUATE, then. Any PROOF of “chemtrails”? Thought not…

Skywitness
@beachtroll2010 Do you ever get ashamed of yourself for investing so much of your time in lies and deceit? Even though you think of yourself as one of the higher ranking trolls in the disinfo game, what do you expect to get for your efforts in trying to cover-up the truth of the chemtrail spraying activities?

beachcomber2008
@Skywitness Is this proof of chemtrails? NO.

Skywitness
@beachtroll2010 Hmmm…beachtroller is evading.

beachcomber2008
@Skywitness You? Well, yes, I guess. Just in the same way I step over dogshit on the sidewalk. It’s healthy to do so. Meanwhile, as ever, you provide NO PROOF of your accusations.

Look how mystified the guy looks here, with his privacy intruded with a spy camera. You think it’s OK to do this because he’s THE ENEMY. But actually, you’re WRONG, and this man’s privacy is intruded upon. That makes YOU the enemy…

EnergySupply2008
@beachcomber2008 Public servants work for the taxpayer so no, this guys privacy was NOT invaded. Have you ever had a genuine thought in your entire life? I thought not.

Skywitness
@beachtrollr2010 Hmmm… beachtroller has reevaluated, and is trying the bleeding heart for other’s privacy distraction. Your own words prove you to be a babbling idiot. You’ll cry like a baby over this man’s privacy, but in truth you don’t give a damn about everyone else’s privacy that is being invaded by the results of the chemtrail spraying. A lot of ailments and death have been inflicted on people because of the chemtrails that you are desperately trying to cover-up. Hypocrite.

EnergySupply2008
@Skywitness Evading the tough questions is what the disinformation trolls are the very best at, that right there shows that they are NOT genuine people and cannot be trusted. If they could only see themselves as everybody else sees them then they would realize their battle is already lost. 98 percent of the people are good people. The trolls are vastly outnumbered and the situation gets worse for them every day, as more people wake up to chemtrails.

beachcomber2008
@EnergySupply2008 “Evading the tough questions”… Could you post the FULL info on these “test samples” & how they were collected? Could you post the altitude, temperature and humidity of your pictures? Where exactly, and from what, are these particles emitted? If from the engines, why aren’t the exhaust flames COLORED by these particles? If they exist, where will these particles be the day after tomorrow?

EnergySupply2008
@beachcomber2008 The rain water samples were collected from a single days rain in a rain gauge. Almost all engines today are turbofan engines for fuel economy. 80 percent of the air they intake bypasses the combustion process and exits out the back. A nozzle in the back of the engine could inject the aluminum into the bypass air. It would not have time to heat the aluminum oxide and it would not burn, therefore no color. but the white aluminum oxide.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 says, “A nozzle in the back of the engine could inject the aluminum into the bypass air.” you got any pictures of “chemtrails” that are present immediately behind the engine? …or do all your pictures show the normal lag time and distance required for the water vapor to condense?


flickervertigo1
This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 says, “…anyone who could be so adamant that chemtrails are not real, when they clearly are, has never really had anyone love them.” …or, maybe people who are skeptical of chemtrails are concerned about justice, due process, and real evidence instead of youtube videos.

beachcomber2008
@flickervertigo1 They flagged you as spam. There’s no limit – they are AT WAR you see. It’s important to them, just as it is to lemmings.

flickervertigo1
@beachcomber2008 what’s so wrong about asking for real evidence, i wonder? these people are accusing other people (too bad they cant seem to pin down exactly who’s to blame) of “crimes against humanity”… you’d think, given the seriousness of the charges, these people would come up with some evidence. *shrug*.

beachcomber2008
@EnergySupply2008 Ingenious.

Perhaps you could point out exactly where you imagine the SPRAY RING might be here:

And explain how all this glowing white powder NEVER shows on the inner engine nacelle. Are they ALWAYS WASHED immediately upon landing, or is TEFLON added to the mix? Are airfield engineers given secret instructions as to how to rig this spray ring every overhaul?

EnergySupply2008
@Skywitness Correct. Beachcomber2008 is the A team for the disinformation trolls. Whenever the more stupid disinformation trolls gets in trouble, Beachcomber2008 is sure to show up. I have seen it time and time again over the past year.



Skywitness
@EnergySupply2008 That’s true…and the funniest thing of all is that when he shows up, he ends up looking more foolish than all the rest of the ridiculous trolls.

EnergySupply2008
@beachcomber2008 There is only no proof if you do not make an honest effort to see it. My go a rounds with you in the past, demonstrate very clearly that you are a non-person because you refuse to take a look at the evidence. Deaf, dumb and blind, that is your motto.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 so, first of all, since you have no flight data, we can assume that your “chemtrails” are most likely contrails. since you have no reliable evidence — you’re not following the rules of evidence or documenting the chain of custody of that evidence — your evidence is inadmissable. no flight data, no evidence. …and no credibility.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 If I had flight data, that would prove no aluminum is coming out of the planes? Are you really stupid? Time to call in the disinformation A team, you are not very good at what you do.
@mikemb123 This enemy is just plain dumb, they think they can explain chemtrails by calling them contrails. So the enemy is obviously not superior. Are they angry? Damn straight, because they have so much going against them. People are not as stupid as the enemy would like to believe. Thanks for keeping up the fight.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 if you could post the altitude, temperature and humidity of your pictures, we’d be able to judge whether or not contrails were possible. but all you got is pictures… no flight data, but we’re supposed to take your word for it… “those are chemtrails”. seeing as how it’s gonna take weeks for your particles to settle out — assuming for the sake of argument particles are present — by which time those particles will be thousands of miles downwind… well, then what?


EnergySupply2008

@flickervertigo1 It is NOT about altitude, temperature and humidity. 25 months ago when they began spraying my area, it was just like turning on a light switch. 50 years of blue sky followed by 25 months of some of the most horrible looking sky imaginable. To think you can get away with your agenda, you absolutely must think your enemy is stupid. There are vast numbers of people not as stupid as you would like them to be.


flickervertigo1

@EnergySupply2008 how can you expect us to believe you about your “light switch” when you are so reluctant to provide any data or evidence?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 I am not reluctant to provide data. Geo-engineers conference in February 2010 talking about spraying 44 BILLION 92 MILLION pounds of aluminum PER YEAR. Obama’s science adviser on record, stating in April 2009 that they are vigorously discussing spraying particles into the atmosphere. 60,000 Youtube videos showing horrific looking sky. RAIN water tests at up to 6900 times normal aluminum. Snow at up to 122,200 times normal aluminum. The fact that you are a moron evades you.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 talking about geoengineering and doing it are two different things. please post evidence that geoengineering is taking place, now. 60,000 youtube videos could be evidence of contrails, all right… yup. please show us the chain of custody of the rainwater and snow samples, and provide evidence that those samples were collected in accordance with the rules of evidence.

Skywitness
Pay no attention to the endless disconnected ramblings of flickervertigo1. Flicker is another one of the numerous disinformation failures who try and trick people into believing that chemtrails are not real. This is their way of trying to cover-up the truth of the ongoing chemtrail spraying campaign.

flickervertigo1
the beauty comes in “might makes right”. you don’t need proof or evidence. all you need is a belief in “might makes right”. if it’s not a matter of law, and verifiable evidence, then what is it a matter of?  must be a matter of faith. …faith in what?  faith in the fucked-upness of israel? america? surely you don’t need chemtrails to have proof of that. so it’s always the same old thing… the chemtrail people can’t come up with any proof, so they resort to distractions. where’s the lawful proof of the existence of chemtrails?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 “so it’s always the same old thing, the chemtrail people can’t come up with any proof” The proof is in 60000 Youtube videos about chemtrails, RAIN and SNOW tests with up to 122200 times normal aluminum in snow, what geo-enginners are discussing, what Obama’s science adviser John Holdren says, that the white house is discussing geo-engineering. It must suck to be you with so much mounting evidence. I pity you, you sold your soul for money.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 you dont have any “proof” that will stand up in a court of law. but that’s okay. law and rules of evidence and justice no longer count for anything. welcome to america.


EnergySupply2008

@flickervertigo1 Don’t worry, people from all walks of life are working on suing the government over chemtrails, and the proof they have would blow your socks off.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 too bad your “proof” cant be posted on youtube, isnt it? your “proof” is the same quality of proof that we used as an excuse to kill a million people in iraq.


flickervertigo1
This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 says, “the proof they have would blow your socks off.” but it’s a secret, isnt it? just like the evidence we used to start those wars in afganistan and iraq. where’s the data about pressure, altitude, humidity, and temperature?

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 It is NOT about pressure altitude, humidity, and temperature. THAT is just what the disinformation trolls want us to believe. It is about the 3450 micrograms per liter of aluminum in RAIN water and the 61100 micrograms per liter in snow, when the EPA certified lab said 0.5 microgram per liter is normal. It really is too bad for trolls like YOU that your argument is so damn weak.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 if it’s not a matter of presure altitude, humidity and temperature, why did the people in world war II pay so much attention to presure altitude, humidity and temperature when they were trying to defend themselves? where’s the data? and late night radio was useful in fucking up the minds of people who had time enough to think… assuming that people who could stay up all night were marginal, and might come up with real ideas. so it became a matter of managing the collapse. the collapse would be easier to manage if the hapless citizens of america were reduced to idiocy.

there was, in the beginning of the israeli american empire after WW2, a certain amount of faith in science and logic… that degenerated pretty quick into propaganda…. because, by 1970, it had become fairly obvious that american oil production had peaked, and was on its way down. carter tried to warn us.

Late night radio, like art bell, has given the lunatic fringe a certain amount of credibility. you have to wonder about the timing. seems like alex jones has political ambitions, so he’ll have to come around, sooner or later, to common sense, which means he’ll have to abandon his chemtrails. rense could be content with his position… willing to stick with his chemtrail position to the bitter end…. and end so fucked up that his position is the least of our worries.

in the meantime, late night radio is probably the worst thing that ever happened. you can present evidence that is credible, or you can continue to be ridiculed… if you can come up with real evidence, i’m on your side. if you cant come up with real evidence, i’m not. simple.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 Also notice that the new scum posts a barrage of posts just like counterasshole.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 have the rules of evidence been given some special dispensation? is there some rule — that the rest of us are unaware of — that exempts you from proving your case?

EnergySupply2008
@Everybody Google – Megatons of aluminum to rain down from global experiment – The article is about the February 2010 geo-engineering conference, held in California. From around the world GEO-ENGINEERS got together and discussed spraying up to 20 metric MEGATONS (44 BILLION 92 MILLION POUNDS) of ALUMINUM PER YEAR. Aluminum destroys plant DNA. That is a fact.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 ah. so global warming is the real deal. huh? do you have any evidence that this project is underway?

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 would you like to comment on alex jones stance on global warming after “avatar”, a movie that blew reality to hell, we’re supposed to rise up in arms and start shooting… who?… on evidence which consists of youtube videos. good deal …but, given america’s performance lately, maybe justice and truth are not really that important. maybe the only thing that counts is the number of people you can kill. who you gonna kill? who’s doing the chemtrail spraying? you don’t even know that.


EnergySupply2008

@flickervertigo1 Notice the style of writing of this new piece of scum. Every sentence gets a new paragraph. SAME writing style as counterresonance or whatever his name is.

flickervertigo1
america was apparently built on the gullibility of its citizens… i dont see any reason why america should not be destroyed by the gullibility of its citzens. one scam after another, but we no longer have the resources to sustain the nonsense. which doesnt deter sociopaths from looting as america goes down.

Skywitness
Am I having a deja vu experience…Oh, that’s right, it just flicker again spewing forth the same useless babble.

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness if you could discipline yourself into providing one instance of real proof, and the evidence to back it up — evidence that adhered to the accepted rules of evidence and the chain of custody of evidence– i’d be on your side. but you cant, and i’m not.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 LOL….?

flickervertigo1
any sociopath with any ambition, and an appreciation of how far we’ve fallen, would become a looter, because there’s no sense in playing. the game isnt worth playing anymore. so you find a wrinkle to cash in on, and so what if that wrinkle further demoralizes your countrymen. things have degenerated to the point that it’s every man for himself, and if you can cash in on sheep who bleat about chemtrails, so be it.

Skywitness
Flicker, how has MrGopherHead been doing lately? He deleted some of his posts and then fell off the radar. I’m sorry, what were you just saying?

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness you can grow up and find real evidence, or you can continue to cash in on the gullibility of your countrymen.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Open your eyes, there’s plenty of evidence of the chemtrail spraying… how many times do you have to be told this? That’s right, I forgot… you’re paid to keep your eyes closed.

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness if there’s so much evidence of chemtrail spraying, why are you unable to provide evidence that conforms to the accepted rules of evidence? google: rules of evidence. google: chain of custody.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 What do you know about evidence? You’re paid to keep your eyes closed. Google: open your eyes.

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness you don’t have a shred of real evidence.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 I bet you say that to all those who expose the chemtrail operations. LOL

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness says, “I bet you say that to all those who expose the chemtrail operations.” the problem seems to be this… you have no credible proof that chemtrail operations exist.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Really, who says, you and all the other disinformation shills? Hehehe….BUWHAHAHAhahaha…..

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 Here YOU go YOU piece of scum. In this video, I count no less that 41 seperate chemtrails and it is TRULY MASSIVE. Come back here and say “oh, that is just normal clouds” then everyone will have all the proof they need to know that YOU are truly scum.

flickervertigo1
@EnergySupply2008 since when is a youtube video legal proof of a crime? …especially in view of the fact that you have no other “evidence”? why are you unable to provide critical data, which would include altitude, humidity and temperature? we have to assume that you dont care about justice. if you were concerned about justice, you would provide iron-clad evidence before you started accusing people of mass murder.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 You sound guilty flicker…very guilty. Is there something you need to talk about?

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness says,”You sound guilty flicker…very guilty.” yup. i’m pretty guilty. i’m guilty of spotting horseshit at an unseemly early age.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1? YAWNnnn…

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness where’s the beef? you dont got no beef. most likely, though, most chemtrail enthusiasts are useful idiots looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Go flicker go!… how many distracting and useless posts can you post in a minute? Don’t forget that you failed in your efforts to debunk the video of the low altitude chemtrails which were sprayed below the Cumulus clouds.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@Skywitness says: “Don’t forget that you failed in your efforts to debunk the video of the low altitude chemtrails which were sprayed below the Cumulus clouds.” dont forget we have no idea how high the clouds were, and we have no idea how high the planes were. we have no idea of the temps or humidity at those altitudes, and we have no idea of the winds aloft. but given all that lack of evidence, you’re wlling to accuse people of genocide. wonderful. so we’re nibbling around the edges of the usefullness of this “chemtrail” campaign, aren’t we? chemtrail enthusiasts are not nearly mighty enough to bomb chemtrail sprayers, nevermind evidence proving the existence of chemtrails. but the impotence of people who believe, without evidence, that chemtrails exist demoralizes them, makes them easier to push around. in the long run, we have to start wondering who the chemtrail people are working for.

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Hehehe… flicker sounds like one of those feds who is trying to bait people into talking about payback. On an info fishing expedition are you shill, oops, I mean flicker?

flickervertigo1

of course, it might makes right, there’s no need of collecting real evidence. all you have to do is accuse someone of something, then bomb them… and that seems to be the US operates, these days. so… you got the right to bomb these “chemtrail” sprayers if you’re mighty enough to bomb them. simple. and fuck a bunch of justice.

for starters, it would be good to know the altitude of the clouds in your video “Low Altitude targeted Chemtrail Spray… below the Cumulus Clouds”… and it’s necessary to know the altitude of the airplanes that made the contrails. looks to me, depending on the winds aloft, the contrails could be higher than the clouds, but we don’t have enough data to figure out what’s going on there, do we?

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Nice new account there flicker that you started today…this wouldn’t be another of the numerous shill accounts that are here on YouTube, would it? LOL. Btw flicker, you sound just like the poster who goes by the name of groundresonance1. Oh my, you wouldn’t be the same person now would you? LOL..again.

EnergySupply2008
@flickervertigo1 Everyone click on Flickervertigo1’s profile. He signed up with Youtube TODAY and came straight to this video. Obviously he is a disinformation troll.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 please explain why you are unable to come up with proof of chemtrails. you accuse people of a project that will kill millions. why are you unable to substantiate your accusations with evidence that would hold up in a court of law?

mikemb123
message to truthmedia productions. Thanks for the work you are doing. however as you can see nobody is able to post comments on your videos because you refuse to take the time to block the trolls. Thats why your great videos are now failing to get more views and comments. nobody can really talk here as long as the trolls are here doing there job so I’m going to stop trying to post comments until they are blocked.


groundresonance1

@mikemb123: would you mind telling us what it is that exempts you from the rules of evidence and logic?

justthefactsmam
get a new cameraman!

mikemb123
@justthefactsmam the camera was hidden, what do you think this is a joke, he was confronting a real fascist here.

groundresonance1
@mikemb123: judging from your lack of response, you are unable to post evidence of chemtrails forming in areas contrails could not form. you are unable to cite evidence that was collected in compliance with accepted procedures… the “chain of custody”… see wikipedia “chain of custody”. given the total lack of credible evidence, we have to assume you’re running some kind of scam.

Skywitness
@groundresonance1 Here’s video evidence of 2 chemtrails that were sprayed at a low altitude below the Cumulus Clouds where contrails do not form. “Low Altitude targeted Chemtrail Spray…below the Cumulus Clouds”

flickervertigo1
@Skywitness you have to know the altitude of the airplanes, the temperature and humidity at that altitude to tell whether or not contrails are possible. what is the altitude of those contrails, and what temperature and humidity is present at that altitude?

Skywitness
@flickervertigo1 Do your homework on clouds. The clouds in the video I mentioned, are not at an altitude where contrails can form; and the chemtrails are below these clouds.

EnergySupply2008
@justthefactsmam It says right in the description they used a hidden camera. Pretty difficult to know what you are filming with a hidden camera.

mikemb123
hello everybody… Echo echo echo…

groundresonance1
please post evidence of chemtrails forming in areas contrails could not form.


MUST WORK

“you must work for the gov” – NO I MUSTN’T. Perhaps I’m on a beautiful sub-tropical island and my sky is BLUE.

el-medano

“can’t believe the rationale” – I CAN’T BELIEVE YOURS. We live in a marvellous age of invention and design, where BEAUTIFUL passenger aircraft can take people all around our Earth at affordable prices and fabulous efficiencies, and you lot are staring up at the WET skies (an obvious and natural consequence of this) thinking you are being poisoned – by WATER.

“defence mechanism’s working overtime” – NO, YOURS IS. YOU ARE BECOMING MENTALLY UNBALANCED BY FALSE WORDS – “CHEMTRAIL”, for instance.

“what covers our skies” – IS WATER.

“phoney stars” – CLIFFORD CARNICOM?

“underground military bases” – Have been around since WW2.

“chemtrail video troll” – Another FALSE WORD.

“same comment” – SAME DELUSION.

“spend 24 h/day” – Well, you are self-deluded 24 h/day.

“Do you get paid for this shit” – “this shit” is SCIENCE and GOOD ADVICE. No, I don’t get paid by ANYONE. The only SHIT round here is your paranoia.

“Our skies go to shit” – What do YOU know? They are merely becoming WETTER.

“global level” – YOU ARE SO EASY WITH THAT IDEA. You know what? The WORLD IS FIFTY TIMES BIGGER THAN THE US. REPEAT TO YOURSELF FIFTY TIMES! COUNT UP TO FIFTY, IMAGINING THE US EACH TIME!

“play the fiddle” – THAT’S WHAT CHEMTRAILS ARE DOING WITH YOUR MIND.

“get paid” – STOP RUINING YOUR LIFE. THAT’LL BE PAYMENT ENOUGH.

Look up http://www.contrailscience.com and/or MY BLOG and go get yourself a life…

trailjpg

MxMxSxDx is an “inside job”

It’s not the volcanoes my friend…it’s the idea of the New World Order pumping chemicals down on our damn heads guy! Just as they fluoridate our water…sounds like you’ve been living in a jazz fantasy, you need to wake up and smell the globalisation man, over here we are moving towards total enslavement.

MxMxSxDx, If you consult my blog you’ll discover that persistent contrails have been photographed since 1940, and that “chemtrails” simply do not exist at all.

“Proof” of “chemtrails” is EXPOSED as mere confirmation of persistent contrails, the existence of which is CONSISTENTLY DENIED by “chemtrail” conspiracy theorists… but they have NEVER marshalled a SINGLE scientific argument in their defense.

So if the MEANS doesn’t exist, then “New World Order pumping chemicals down on our damn heads” is HARDLY LIKELY TO OCCUR, is it?

It’s like you saying “He is going to shoot me!” and my replying “He hasn’t got a gun“. He could still STAB you! But HE HASN’T GOT A GUN SO HE CANNOT SHOOT YOU!

And anyway, if FLUORIDE is so damn effective, why doesn’t he poison you via THAT vector?

Get a LIFE!

trail

NICSCICS “NICKED”

lr

This is about a video purporting to be the inside of a government chemtrail aircraft made by an Italian “gentleman” calling himself nicscics. His preamble goes: “Look at the luggage drawers on the right side in the photo. Let’s consider the operations necessary to dismantle something. If you get an assembly of the interior of an aircraft for tests, you don’t have to mount the luggage drawers, because you do it after. Vice versa, when you dismantle, you remove only what you need to remove. On my opinion, it’s clear that this is not an aircraft used for some test, as many people guess, even if the furniture is similar to what is used for flight test. We can see that in an aircraft used for flight tests, there are not luggage drawers. It’s logic: this furniture is not assembled, before tests are over. But in the photo you can see this furniture, i.e. four luggage drawers. So I think that this is a dismantled airplane. Any other “information” against this hypothesis is, in my opinion, very suspicious.”

And then Tim White, Viet Nam Vet (USAF), “Concerned Citizen” writes: “The C.I.A.-N.S.A facility at Pinal Airpark-Marana, (Arizona) is the most important centre that modifies a wide range of aircraft types to conduct the chemtrail spray operations that began the entire United States in November of 1998. Prior to this, selected areas of the U.S.A. had chemtrails operations to test all the technology employed in these chemtrails spray operations and to determine parameters related to aircraft performances and atmospheric conditions. The program is conducted under different code names: “Operation clover leaf”, “Operation raindance” and so on. It is now spread in many countries in the world.
The photo shows the inside of a chemical tanker, that may be was a civil airplane, in which the original furniture was substituted by hydraulic structures, managed by an automatic and computerized system. In the photo, look at the containers probably used to stock chemical liquid compounds (trimethylaluminum) connected by means of a complicated tubes system. Look at the writings: over the black and yellow square, you can read “Sprayer!!”, below “Hazard inside”. Upon a container on the right, you can read “Lock care”.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoaomHQB2g

(The above video, titled “Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer”, remained in YouTube after I was ejected for a further six months, disappeared, and then reappeared under a different title “Chemtrails from the Inside”.)

I was startled and concerned by this, for I couldn’t see how this would come about, knowing as I do that in general, the physics of “chemtrails” would require tanks that would not be at all like these “barrels”, and wondered whether they weren’t, perhaps, a device for varying the CG of a prototype aircraft.

I happened across a YTer calling himself ToniEvola who appeared to be knowledgeable in this area, and asked him what he thought this might be. Although he thought he was talking to a “chemtrailer” he came up with this stunning revelation, which it delights me to share with you, seeing as SCIECHIMICHE are generally a stunningly professional bunch of liars.

“hi jazzroc – Please man, think with me for just a second. Use your brain and leave all the incoming external media channels apart that try to influence your brain, just for a second. (I know its probably my wasted time since I know you want to believe it’s really happening.) With commonsense ask yourself these questions:
Do the barrels contain chemicals? If so… then why did they bother to put the “hazard inside” placard only on that “cabinet”?
Also, according to nicscics, one of the “containers” reads: “Lock care”. Same question, why did they bother to put it only on that particular “container”, while all the other “containers” are identical?
I’ve been asking other simple questions that any one can answer with a little bit of effort. Thing is… do you want to answer the questions, and find yourself looking at the whole deal from a different point of view? Or do you want to dismiss everything straight away? And believe what you are forced to believe. I hope you can continue to read this as I will show you my side of the story, like you asked.
The first thing that came in mind was: new build aircraft in testing phase. The “containers” are water tanks that are filled to weigh, trim and balance the aircraft, and the avionics computer in the back monitors all the test data. I then searched on the net to find a clear copy of the photo myself.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/inside%20chemtrail%20plane1500w.jpg
I managed to find the one I posted here above and immediately you can notice some differences. Instead of “Lock care”, this photo clearly shows “Load bank” written on the tank. And instead of “Hazard inside” it shows “Hazmat-inside”. Also the cabinets appear to be lavatories and you can see people working in the back. But let’s keep on searching for more, since the “sprayer” part still seems odd.
Nice thing to know is what kind of plane it is. There are 2×3 seats installed on both sides of the aircraft with still space left in the middle. This means that it has to be a large wide bodied aircraft. With my experience I can clearly see that it is not an Airbus, because they use different tanks and setups. So it has to be a Boeing and that leaves only 2 wide bodies that are wide enough to seat 9-10 people on one row, the 747 and the 777. I’ve worked most of my career on 747 aircraft and I know one when I see one, so this has to be a 777. The last couple of years Boeing have built them newer, larger, and with a longer range. Plenty of testing had had to be done on them.
Here are pictures that I found, that I want you to look at. You probably won’t like to see them: From the official Boeing website, here are some photos from the first ever build Boeing 777-200LR (Longer Range). This was the aircraft that broke the record of longest non-stop flight ever:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/200LR/photos.html

(broken link)
And then please specifically take a look at these pictures that start to answer your question:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/200LR/people.html
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/200LR/WDOO1_interior.html
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/200LR/WD001_group_interior.html

(all broken links)
You can see some familiar things on these pictures. It must be strange when a “secret, dismantled” chemtrail plane starts to look like a brand new Boeing 777 that is being prepared for test flights, don’t you think?
That leaves one thing still unanswered. What does the “hazmat-inside” placard mean? I decided to search on airliners.net for more photos. What I found was the photo that explains it all:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing/0855967/L/
You can scroll down for yourself on this page to find the original photo where “suddenly” the placard is “gone”. There’s also another photo taken from the opposite side. I hope this will clear things up for you.”

WHAT A STAR!

Sadly, over time, some of these links are now broken. Shame…

1418622

MAKING THE 777

Planes are made by people. The ten thousand people at Boeing that teamed together for many years to produce their new (in 1995) 777  became adept by telling each other their troubles, and giving and receiving help as a consequence. It is a wonderful story.

Now compare these wonderful people and their actions with NICSCICS, “Straker”, and TANKERENEMY. What do YOU reckon?

Written by JazzRoc

October 29, 2008 at 1:00 am

Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, chemtrails, contrails, science, Truth, Uncategorized, war

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Not Coming

with 2 comments

This is a lenticular cloud - and not an Adamski Scoutship

PAGE CONTENTS

NOMEANSNO – NOT COMING – NOT HEALTHY – NOTHING – NOTRAILS – NUTS (TO SOMEONE WHO BLOCKED ME) – OFFICIAL (VERSION) – OGRISH – OUTSIDE IN – PAINT – PENITENT (The Longest Day II)

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

NOMEANSNO

People queuing up to be poisoned by a sprayer whose pilot was just too lazy to switch the spray off

This gentleman really means “No!” He has decided the way it is, and anything that doesn’t fit the way he sees it, is OUT.

Hey Jazzy, you seem to find me about every 6 months or so. I can’t return comments on the re:on off video so i thought I would PM you. First to set it straight, are you debunking this guy?:
/watch?v=E0AzCIzDf6I&NR=1
I know there is more to this whole topic than meets the eye. I am professionally trained in the field of thermal transfer and am fully aware of the conditions of our atmosphere. I have a better than average grasp of physics. And am a practicing expert in philosophy.
That said, any information you have of the current global attempts at controlling/modifying the weather would be appreciated. I have gleaned from our “discussions” that you know more than you are letting on. Why do the bulk of your ilk argue in the same manner? Act open to discussion yet when the chips are down, retreat behind a veil of name calling. G

First to set it straight, are you debunking this guy?:

No. Michio is setting things straight here. A whole generation of radiation meters under-read a while back. The first time such meters went into space they read NOTHING. This was because the radiation overexposure SATURATED them. All that needs to be done is add some redundancy to the network, so that info can be moved out of the way of the storm. Satellites in earth’s shadow remain useful, and advance warning of approaching storms is already in place.

I know there is more to this whole topic than meets the eye. I am professionally trained in the field of thermal transfer and am fully aware of the conditions of our atmosphere. I have a better than average grasp of physics. And am a practicing expert in philosophy.

I don’t believe you at all. Anyone with the slightest grasp of physics knows you are barking up the wrong tree.

wobbly moment as spray pilot misses the switch in the gloom

That said, any information you have of the current global attempts at controlling/modifying the weather would be appreciated.

There are none. Just you bunch talking up a storm.
1. Teller’s Bar/Al Welsbach materials need placing higher in the atmosphere than planes can fly.
2. It’s possible to make liquid organic metals but they are expensive, corrosive, prone to spontaneous ignition, and don’t pump easily. If burnt in a turbofan they would destroy it in seconds,
3. If burnt in a turbofan there would be no GAP in the trail between the exhaust and the trail beginning. Instead the exit flame would be colored green or white.
These three objections, coupled with the fact that a jet is a 2000 deg F FLAME rule out completely ANY chemtrailer notion. One’s enough…

I have gleaned from our “discussions” that you know more than you are letting on.

Of course I do. It’s a huge field and 500 chrs is a small space to play in.

Why do the bulk of your ilk argue in the same manner? Act open to discussion yet when the chips are down, retreat behind a veil of name calling.

It’s a product of your hypocritical rose-tinted glasses worn as part of a partisan group. The opposite of what you say is almost always the truth. I certainly find personally that any chemtrailer’s assertion is a negative pointer to the truth of any matter. Faithinscience is abusive, and stands alone. I am normally abused after my first question which receives no answer, The abuser never seems to notice what he does. It’s almost like “Tourettes syndrome”.
In atmospheric physics the behavior of aircraft has been well understood for sixty years. Hundreds of papers have been written minutely examining the contents of trails to thousandths of a percent. These days they are measured and assayed using laser interferometry from satellite or ground.
It is known that in the stratosphere a jumbo can lay down thirty-five pounds of ice for each yard of forward flight. Did you know that?
The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice. Did you know that?
Now can you put one and one together and see what your mind has been doing to you?

I did not know that, and still don’t. I can not find any corroborating evidence to support such a claim, Ice is 977 times denser than vapour – a far cry from 10,000.
If Michio Kaku is so sure about a coming solar storm, you think nothing is being done about this? You don’t know about haarp and the other 25 such devices around the globe. The inventor/developer of this technology is on the record stating its scope of use?
I am well aware of contrail science, but normal contrails do not act this way, at least they didn’t when I was younger. If the reason for the extra spreading of contrails as of late, is normal, there is serious pollution issues in the stratosphere. And we should be rallying to put an end to this waste.

http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
You cannot find corroborating evidence because you only find “chemtrailer” lies. To avoid them you must use “Advanced Search” and include “-chemtrail” and “-aerosol” in your search terms. Then if you search for “paper stratosphere aviation combustion ice trail cirrus cloud”, for instance, you get an entirely different set of results.
We’re all sure of the approaching storm. The solar cycle is well understood. I’ve told you something is being done about this. HAARP has nothing to do with this. The Sun can be hundreds of times more powerful than HAARP. The scope of use doesn’t extend as far as countering a solar storm – nor could it ever.
You aren’t aware at all of anything. You do look silly contradicting thousands of clever hard-working people. Everything you have been talking about and believe about “chemtrails” is DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED BY REAL SCIENCE. Since when was ICE pollution? When water vapor comes out of solution in the air of the stratosphere at -40 deg F and seven miles up, it materializes as PURE ICE. The initial “pollution” of the internal combustion engine becomes diluted TEN THOUSAND TIMES. That makes it quite fresh…. As I have told you previously, EVERY word you utter points in the opposite direction to TRUTH. You waste my time. Go to a library.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V95-3V5YS7F-1C&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F1998&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1186771367&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4c14e8bcc11a5d4214e1afea2634d331
This is exactly how i use the term aerosol. You are an ass. Well? Facts: you can’t back such a bs statement: “The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice.”

“Well? Facts: you can’t back such a bs statement: ‘The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice.'”

http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
This reference I gave to you previously.
Page 17, second column second para: “The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 1.6 x 10^4 gm per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude greater than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values.”

Do you want more DIRECT CONTRADICTION, or is that enough for you? By the way “orders of magnitude” means “powers of ten”. FOUR orders is 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 10,000… Got it? Further searches along the lines I have already indicated to you will bring up further corroboration. If you have the courage to undertake it…

3 to 4 is a fair jump. would you not agree? And from a nasa science lab to boot. “ahh a thousand, ten thousand whats the diff! ”
There is ample eye witness testimony, doctor reports and interviews, lab reports, professional statements, police fireman… all leaning towards a large scale effort to prepare for the solar storms. HAARP may be a small but crucial element in this effort. To think a govt agency would state something intentionally erroneous is preposterous! ***warren commish, 911 commish *cough-cough*

It stated the facts precisely. It is YOU who pretends otherwise. It’s only one of many papers which all say similar things. Some of them are in different languages. The last time I looked there were hundreds. There’s none so blind as one who does not wish to see.
You ask for an example then give a spurious reason to dismiss it. You call BS and then weasel out.
Preparation for high solar activity is normal. Your slant on it is absurd. I’m sure you’re unaware how you’re now changing the subject. Warren Commission? Far out! Go back to school. Unless you haven’t been in the first place. And write me no more.

so you agree with Michio but not me? YES
There is absolute proof of world wide under ground construction. SO?
From Gates’ Norwegian seed cave to the Denver Airport, yet you deny this????? NO
The sun is about to do something never witnessed by modern man. BALLS
The scope of the ability of haarp includes protection from such an event. BALLS
Warren commission’s magic bullet and the 911 commission’s magic passport should raise the hackles on the most conservative of skeptics. BALLS
so you agree with Michio but not me? YES

The sun is about to do something never witnessed by modern man. BALLS
This is WHAT Michio stated, so one of your answers here is wrong, or balls is an affirmative to you. Which is it?
And as for the passport laying on the street unscathed, if you buy that then you are an idiot. there is no way a passport went through that explosion and ended up unscathed a few blocks away. no way. This, M. Atta’s passport was planted.

It’s going through an active phase so it MIGHT do something never before witnessed. That doesn’t mean it will. The way you interpret these facts is the BALLS. Same goes for the passport. You cannot conceive of it so for you it is inconceivable. While you fail to interpret these events, the REAL events are passing you by…

btw your response fits 3 of these:
http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html#Twenty-Five_Rules_of_Disinformation__

It would, whether or not I was a “disinformer”.
This whole approach (of yours) IS disinformation. Everything “chemtrail” is LIES AND EYE-BULGING HYPOCRISY.
You only have to visit a library to find real information.
“Truth cannot live on a diet of secrets, withering within entangled lies. Freedom cannot live on a diet of lies, surrendering to the veil of oppression. The human spirit cannot live on a diet of oppression, becoming subservient in the end to the will of evil. God, as truth incarnate, will not long let stand a world devoted to such evil. Therefore, let us have the truth and freedom our spirits require… or let us die seeking these things, for without them, we shall surely and justly perish in an evil world.”
This above statement is out of YOUR literature. It APPLIES TO YOU.
Have you noticed how your OWN information NEVER recommends you visit a library? According to your “sources” it is often a “fact” that existing sources have been “tampered with”. Does that seem plausible to you? Each book made by the million, circulated to thousands of libraries, sold privately to hundreds of thousands of people. Each reclaimed and altered?
Every day some pathetic individual tasks me about conspiracies, smogs, fuels, contrails, 9-11, with some pet theory that seems entirely original to him. It’s not original. It’s all been done, and probably in the planning stage, by people trained and qualified and with your best interests to heart, for they have to live in your world too. They have already proved their intelligence and willingness to work hard. All you have to do is the same.
In the meantime, shut up with the crap. That worked for me, it could do so for you.

Have you noticed how your OWN information NEVER recommends you visit a library?
WTF? I started this whole thing off, asking if you, or that faith dude, if you had read Dr Eastlund, or Dr Begich or William Thomas, all available in libraries. You are an asshole, your “holier than thou” attitude would get a boot in the ass in person.

Only if I don’t smack you first. I read such technical books BEFORE Eastlund, Begich and Thomas. And I avoided being a creep too. The FACTS are holier than either of us. You’re the one who can’t deal with a technical report made by the finest scientists in their field. Learn to stand on your feet.

NO, Michio stated, “around 2012 the sun’s magnetosphere WILL flip, sending out a shockwave of radiation”, not might, or may. The unknown is the effect this will have on communications and the grid. So you are giving Mr Kaku the same “know it all” attitude. As for chemtrails, you know the causal effects pertaining to contrail formation, and could you not envision a way to increase this effect? People already have. Patents exist and have been bought by the US Navy.

ISS and Shuttle before the Sun

It won’t be doing anything it hasn’t done before “around 2012”. The reason why there will be an unknown effect of communication is that we have a higher dependency on this rather radiation-sensitive machinery known as microelectronics than we had the last time around. Any other reason you come up with will be a readout on your condition. The action of a turbofan on a low-pressure low-temperature supersaturated stratosphere could not be more extreme than it already is. Which you would understand if you have studied the subject, Which you have not. There are patents for a hotel on the Moon. Why don’t you go there? Now. While you’re there you could take a book or two… Make’em science books…

So then you do disagree with michio, man are you hard to converse with. Alter your comments and ignore facts for insults, like you are stupid, instead of saying “this is where you are wrong” type comment. I take it you did not even listen to the link of the leading physicists of our time.

The reason I am hard to converse with is that I break concepts down to their essentials where you cannot. You cannot, because you bring an agenda to the table of your own which you will support at all costs – as you have just demonstrated, for the above reasoning slipped by you as though it wasn’t there. Telling you where you are going wrong isn’t an insult. You’ll know it when I insult you. You’ll have to improve your stature first.

the navy hasn’t bought up all the moon hotel patents have they? By the time you are satisfied on this subject it will be too late. Again, insults instead of FACTS.
FYI: “…that the magnetic field of the sun undergoes a drastic change every 11,500 to 12,000 years.” That would make it modern man has never seen this occur. Of course you will bitch about the term modern man, I am referring to historic records, not evolutionary records. Oh we should check if you believe in evolution first, could be a whole can of worms with you.
Other time around? you are confusing this coming event with recorded c.m.e. events that have been witnessed. this pole shift has not been ever witnessed by a modern civilization. I am not extrapolating comments or theorizing on events, I am taking physicists words for the truth.
What i do think about is if there is proof our world leaders know about this and are doing anything to prepare/prevent or protect us from this coming solar storm. And by all accounts they are, yet you choose to insult and languish in your knowledge, acting like there is nothing in this world you don’t fully grasp. Shame.

“…that the magnetic field of the sun undergoes a drastic change every 11,500 to 12,000 years.”
Does that make the change due NOW, 500 years from NOW, or some time in-between?

I’m not about to instruct you, even if you look to me as pathetic as a goldfish that’s just flopped out of its tank. DO your own work. I had to do the same. “Modern”. LOL

See, yet again insults. Water off a ducks back, my e-asshole. You seem satiated with the power of ten in your facts, where as this one is what like 5%, Kaku and others have seen this event as happening in 2012, why do you think that could be? Our sun is acting the oddest it has since we have been observing it, yet you know better. Oh wise one!

Satiated with LOGIC, more like. You should try it some time.

there will be credible samples retrieved soon enough. You will doubt those at first as well.
one last thing: why does no one direct me to info on how the trail from a plane will thin out, width-wise, turn into virga and cover a quarter of the sky. Not one source for the science behind this, and not to mention this has only been occurring for the last 20 years or so. Pollution, perhaps. Then should this not be a wake up call to clean up our act. The tons of fuel burned daily to cart people around is mind boggling. 230 million gallons per day according to BP. Could this not be the factor increasing the so called persistent contrails?

The reasons why “no-one directed” you is that the explanation is complex. It is actually there, in the reference I gave you. In the report.
Simply speaking, it is helped by the aircraft’s wave vortex. The trails are swept up in it, turning inside out many times within it for several minutes. Vortex motion ceases some fifty miles behind the aircraft. The slight downward angle of the vortex would put that end hundreds of metres lower in the stratosphere. Trails ALWAYS fall. Also the two side-by-side trails can interfere with each other, and “link” together in what look exactly like smoke rings. This is called “the Crow Instability”.

As a consequence the underside of the trail adopts a “sawtooth” appearance. Each “tooth” is a virga. At every virga centre is a downward-moving column of air. This is where much of the ice deposition takes place. Because of the increased weight of the heavier ice particles they fall faster.
This whole process continues, falling through, until the surrounding stratospheric layer has no ice to give. As the particles fall down through the lower stratosphere they are falling into COLDER air, which supports them. The layers may be drier, so they evaporate there. (But generally the reverse is true: the layers get less capable of holding water vapor in solution as the temperature falls). It is possible that only when the ice crystals reach the warmer air beneath the tropopause, they finally evaporate. This will be normally a level surface. Hence the flat grey underside appearance you typically see. That underside will be between four and five miles high at European latitudes.

What I have written here is itself an over-simplification.
If you are really interested in knowing more, my blog offers many sources. You just have to follow the links till you get to the papers, and then look up the references the papers themselves leave. Do that for a while and you will know at least as much as I do, Maybe.

no, no, no…  you are describing a natural event, the persistent contrail.
In a week or so I will put together a video SHOWING what I am talking about. One of your cohort, jesuslives57, went through this same argument. I am referring to the complete thinning out of a trail, till it is spread wide open, filling the sky! Maybe you have never seen this occur. That would explain your position. There is no reason for a normally produced contrail to act like this, without some extra factor.
See, I have read up on all of this, have research atmospheric sites and have emailed meteorologist…all with no answer for my question. Most ignore, some, like you, repeat the known information, some like jl57, deny this is from planes!
I witnessed a plane over Victoria BC two summers ago. It flew directly over the city left three circular blobs, relatively small. These expanded until the sky was overcast. I phoned to get a friend to video them but no luck. These were not any way normal.

“The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 1.6 x 10^4 gms per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude greater than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values.”
This FACT is what you cannot accept. Many research papers have discovered the same basic information since 1953 when contrails were first analyzed in depth. You say “There is no reason for a normally produced contrail to act like this, without some extra factor” and I am telling you the extra factor is SUPERSATURATION. You must have seen this word before. You just DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT THIS IS. So study it. Study THE PHASES OF WATER. Use the advanced search exclusion process to find yourself some REAL TRUTH and not the lies you are accustomed to reading. You will discover SCIENCE and put away childish dreams.

why are you such an asshole? were you abused as a child? Look at the images from the 40’s of persistent contrails then look up! see the difference?
I am positive you do not know the effect I am writing about, as you are not addressing the topic.
I am professionally trained in thermodynamics, and am an adult. so you can eat your condescending attitude, shit it out and eat it again. I didn’t say I was mature. I went through some old videos, none really capture clearly what I have ONLY stated. And we must be very clear for you so you don’t dodge the point, yet again. I will post a video soon enough with your name on it, then please comment on how your non-belief in added particulate is responsible. There are doctors on record stating they treat the symptoms of exposure to these chemicals. They must be lying, ill educated morons also.

“There are doctors on record stating they treat the symptoms of exposure to these chemicals. They must be lying, ill educated morons also.”

How do you KNOW these symptoms are the result of “exposure to these chemicals”? Is that what the doctors actually stated? Were they actually a doctor, and not a fraud like Hildegarde Staninger?
What “linkage” is there here? Did someone say they saw a trail in the sky seven miles up?
If repeating hearsay and drummed-up uneducated witness testimony and the creepiness of people like Staninger doesn’t make you a lying, ill-educated moron, than I don’t know what will. Thanks for assuming that was what I was thinking. It saved me the effort.
“I am professionally trained in thermodynamics” yes, I heard you before. I don’t believe you were “trained” at all. Shown a book and videos, and asked questions, more like.
You don’t seem open enough to thinking to be educable. I obtained my training at the National Gas Turbine Establishment in its heyday, working on and designing modifications to gas turbines and test chambers.

I have my own empirical evidence of manufactured trails, relating them to you would be pointless. If Dr Hildegarde Staninger is such a moron, like me, why is the CDC conducting an investigation into Morgellon’s/unexplained dermopathy also? I guess they are full of morons too. Must be tough being so smart and trapped in that pathetic body! Well they say one is either smart or good looking, can’t have both!
I do not need to prove my education to you, but I am a refrigeration mechanic, energy transfer is a large part of the training. 5 years worth.
and needless to say top of my class. Your training should let you know that factors can be altered, there is ample proof to believe this effect is possible.

“One of your cohort, jesuslives57 went through this same argument.” And you call ME an asshole. JL57 and I haven’t ever exchanged more than a couple of dozen words. If you want to know who MY cohort is – it’s YOU. It’s a wonderful life…

“I have my own empirical evidence of manufactured trails, relating them to you would be pointless”
If empirical, it’s a first. Congratulations on your Nobel Prize.

“If Dr Hildegarde Staninger is such a moron, like me, why is the CDC conducting an investigation into Morgellon’s/unexplained dermopathy also?”
Because it is unexplained?

“9i guess they are full of morons too. Must be tough being so smart and trapped in that pathetic body! Well they say one is either smart or good looking, can’t have both!”
You must be REALLY good-looking! 🙂

“I do not need to prove my education to you, but I am a refrigeration mechanic, energy transfer is a large part of the training. 5 years worth.and needless to say top of my class.”
It’s a pity trusting the expertise and professionalism of thousands of atmospheric scientists wasn’t part of your curriculum. Perhaps if you don’t have it you cannot appreciate it.

“Your training should let you know that factors can be altered, there is ample proof to balieve this effect is possible.”
My training tells me persistent contrails exist, and things without any evidence for them need hard EVIDENCE before they are deemed to replace things which are KNOWN to exist.

If you had such evidence you would have rammed it down my throat, I’m sure. Here’s mine:
THE CLEAR INVISIBLE NATURE OF THE TRAIL “GAP” IS PROOF OF NO METALS BEING PRESENT.
NO ORGANIC MATERIALS CAN PASS THROUGH A FLAME WITHOUT COMBUSTING.
TURBOFAN ENGINES CAN PRODUCE AN ICE TRAIL 10,000 TIMES LARGER THAN THEIR ICE OF COMBUSTION.

Empirical: originating in, or based on, observation or experience. Does this mean something else to you? I gave you the smart/ugly thing, you always go the cheap’n’easy route?
I never claimed anything about a gap, typical for the angry rebuttal types is to lump all together, I suppose I think there is a problem with the water because rainbows appear in lawn sprinklers, like that dbootsthediva person. Well now you have gone from a blanket denier to a “waiter for proof”, baby steps. The nozzles are placed, not in the combustion, but out the plane body, there are plane mechanics on record stating there are 500 gallon tanks on these planes. There are patents on aerosol delivery systems, bought up by the US navy, that detail such systems.

empirical :originating in or based on observation or experience. Does this mean something else to you?
Hard evidence.

i gave you the smart/ugly thing, you always go the cheap’n’easy route?
I never claimed anything about a gap.

NO. I’m telling you the GAP proves the absence of metals.

Well now you have gone from a blanket denier to a “waiter for proof”, baby steps
It’s just my experience of waiting and being disappointed by the trite crap “revealed” to me..

the nozzles are placed, not in the combustion, but out the plane body, there are plane mechanics on record stating there are 500 gallon tanks on these planes. There are patents on aerosol delivery systems, bought up by the US navy, that detail such systems.
Apart from the fact that ANYONE could type up a shitstorm (and they do) – there’s NOTHING. The PTB have obviously had a total success there… Patents – go visit the Moon.

trusting the expertise and professionalism of thousands of atmospheric scientists
like the Canadian govt scientists that have had a gag order placed on them?
NO ORGANIC MATERIALS
who said anything about organic? The last decade has brought about monumental advances in polymers.

like the Canadian govt scientists that have had a gag order placed on them?

No. Like the REST OF THE WORLD for SIXTY YEARS.

who said anything about organic? The last decade has brought about monumental advances in polymers.

Polymers ARE organic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

That’s all very stupid. Perhaps I should apply, eh? There’s enough STUPID as there is.

NOT COMING

contrails-3

“If these are CONTRAILS, then WHY are they not coming from the engines” – THEY ARE*. It takes a SPLIT SECOND for jet exhausts to cool from 1100deg C to -40deg C. That can be up to 800 feet away at operational altitude. *Except in the case of aerodynamic trails and highly-supersaturated air.

“Contrails disappear within minutes” – NO. They can disappear in SECONDS in DRY AIR, or NOT DISAPPEAR AT ALL in SATURATED AIR, or ANYTHING IN-BETWEEN.

“some are indeed contrails, but lots of them are NOT!” – If you UNDERSTAND what I have just written then you NOW KNOW THIS STATEMENT TO BE UTTERLY WRONG.

NOT HEALTHY

fitness

They are indeed not healthy, but both are fitness itself compared with science-hating conspiracy fruitloops.

Volcanic action is twenty times more dangerous than aviation combustion, works 24/7, and doesn’t worry me either, because I know that Life air-conditions it. Fresh air itself was once volcanic effluent.

Something sensible to worry about would be the removal of forests and phytoplankton, but you don’t do sensible, do you?

forest

NOTHING

(The life’s work of dbootsthediva):

“‘secret’, ‘hidden in plain sight’ weather eng HAARP” – There’s NOTHING as HIDDEN as something which DOESN’T EXIST. HAARP is a radio establishment IN THE MIDDLE OF ALASKA – A QUARTER WAY ROUND THE GLOBE.

“In the UK it’s mainly used to create the depressing uniform dull grey sky which has now become accepted as standard ‘British weather'”FALSE. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY – WELL, WAY BACK TO THE SIXTIES…

“But HAARP isn’t the only thing at work here” – IT ISN’T AT WORK HERE. IF IT WORKS AT ALL IT’S LINE-OF-SIGHT.

cloudbuster

“orgonite cloudbuster” – NOR IS THIS. THIS IS NOT SCIENCE BUT FAKE.

“‘mackerel sky’ clouds just materialising out of nowhere” – NO. SUNLIGHT IS ADDING ENERGY TO THE BOUNDARY LAYER AIR, WHICH RISING, CONDENSES OUT SOME OF ITS WATER VAPOR AS CLOUD. THE EXPRESSION “MACKEREL SKIES” IS CENTURIES OLD…

“getting it in May 2006” – AND BOY YOU GOT IT.

“makes HAARP effects more obvious” – YOUR LUNACY MORE OBVIOUS…

“formation of artificial clouds” – YEAH, JUST AROUND YOU…

“prevents the grey cloud layer forming completely” – IN THE WINDMILLS OF YOUR MIND…

“leaving white clouds in an obvious strange pattern” – LEAVING THEM THE WAY THEY WERE…

altocumulus

altocumulus

“There’s also a few chemtrails in the background” – OF COURSE!

“28 secs into it, did you catch a plasma EM field?” – YEP, MY $33 WEBCAM CAME WITH A CONVERSATION GENERATOR WHICH DOWNLOADS INTO PERFECT GIBBERISH

“58 secs Sensor Orb alert. and 1.01 too?” – SEE? GIBBER. GIBBER.

“Quantum Cryptography/clouds morph/smaller images/another image altogether” – GIBBER. GIBBER. GIBBER.

“tree leaves/pixels” – GIBBER. GIBBER.

“aerosol carbon coenzyme” – GIBBER “helps create” – A COSMETIC? “catalyst” – MAGIC SCIENCE WORD.

“chemtrail can expand instead of dissipating” – GIBBER!

“No stratus or cirrus cloud formations without the help of the synthetic plasma field” – ALL SINGING AND DANCING GIBBER!!!

wizard-of-oz

“We are not in Kansas anymore” DOROTHY “not real clouds” – ESSENTIALLY WRONG!

“ultrafine powders & transparent liquids of multi layered metallic silica oxides varieties, bacteria, and chemicals to create different catalysts for different cryptography effects”

magic-hat

BAGS OF MAGIC SCIENCE WORDS!

WAIT A MINUTE. CRYPTOGRAPHY IS THE WRITING OF CODES SUCH AS THE MORSE CODE AND THE DECRYPTION OF ENIGMA!

“ive seen chemtrails here in New Zealand & the exact same thing happens with the weather, what are they doing?” – I WILL DECRYPT THIS FOR YOU:  NOTHING.

NOTRAILS

Hi notrails,

The air in ANY clear blue sky ALWAYS contains WATER. It’s in the form of VAPOR. Water vapor is a CLEAR INVISIBLE GAS.

Reference to standard physical tables gives you the means to work out the ACTUAL amount of water present in a clear blue sky, and at a ground temperature of 23 deg C and a RH of 65% it works out that there’s 3,300 tons of INVISIBLE WATER VAPOR in the CLEAR air to the horizon from where you are standing.

In general, when you are looking at THE TROPOSPHERE with its blue sky with rising cumuli, it pays to remember there’s LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN WATER CONTENT between BLUE SKY and CLOUDS.

The STRATOSPHERE above ALSO contains water vapor. Its temperature just above the TROPOPAUSE is NEVER warmer than -40 deg C. Due to the INTENSE COLD and the THIN AIR, much less vapor can be held in the air, before it exhibits SATURATION or even SUPERSATURATION.

A passenger airplane at 35,000 ft and 550mph deposits its exhaust in the form of CO2 gas and ice crystals at, say,  50lb per mile. That’s about 25 lb of water per mile, laid as a “cirrus” cloud of intensely frozen ice crystals. The craft has a large wave vortex which acts as a “mixer” for the crystals and they are spread into that stratosphere’s layer.

If the RH of the layer is less than 100% then those crystals SUBLIME into water vapour, the trail DISAPPEARS, and THE LAYER’S RH RISES.

If the RH of the layer is 100%, the layer is said to be SATURATED, and the CONTRAIL PERSISTS INDEFINITELY.

If the RH of the layer is greater than 100%, the layer is said to be SUPERSATURATED, the CONTRAIL not only PERSISTS INDEFINITELY but also GAINS WEIGHT as water vapor freezes ONTO the contrail’s ice crystals. The HEAVY trail material increases its rate of descent (ice crystals are ALWAYS falling).

Now it should be OBVIOUS to you that REPEATED PASSAGES of AIRCRAFT through stratospheric layers INCREASE the RH of the layer to SATURATION, and WHEN that happens, TRAILS WILL PERSIST AND SPREAD TO FILL THE LAYER. BLUE SKIES WILL BE GONE…

SO – CHEMTRAILS ARE A FIGMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATION.

AND THEN YOU PROJECT UPON OTHERS YOUR CONFUSION, AND YOUR HATRED.

Thanks for the imaginatively-titled cloud pictures. Always gratefully received. Your land is less of a desert than Tenerife. In fact it is very beautiful.

hawaii

You’re a lucky man. Or could be…

NUTS (TO SOMEONE WHO BLOCKED ME)

nuts

I didn’t say you were nuts, did I? Check. Thanks for not censoring me, some have. For evidence, follow a civil jet with a quick light plane trailing a fine net & capture bottle. Analyse it yourself. I never found results like the ones claimed on my engine test bed.
The annual (24/7) volcanic action of Earth’s 1500 active land volcanoes outdoes Man’s 300 million tons of jet fuel by 2000%. Life has converted it into fresh air for at least 3 billion years. Worry about the forests and phytoplankton. Whoops…

OFFICIAL (VERSION)

Contrails can remain visible for very long periods of time with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics.

Contrails can form many shapes as they are dispersed by horizontal and vertical wind shear.

Sunlight refracted or reflected from contrails can produce vibrant and eye-catching colors and patterns.

Observation and scientific analysis of contrails and their duration date back to at least 1953.

The National Airspace System of the United States is oriented in an east-west and north-south grid with aircraft flying at designated 2000 foot increments of elevation (1000 feet after the introduction of Reduced Vertical Separation Minima in 2002-2004).

Contrails formed by aircraft may appear to form a grid as the winds disperse the contrails.

More contrails are seen in recent years due to the growth in the civil aviation market.

OGRISH

lingering contrail is not the best description” – Oh, yes it is!

A contrail will remain visible for longer with different humidity and temperature but thinning and creating cloud cover?” – Supersaturated air THICKENS the trail so much it falls as PENDULES. You have seen them…. As a trail IS ICE it IS CIRRUS CLOUD. As for filling a stratospheric layer, that’s EASY, the WAVE VORTEX supplies the energy. Some of that energy is STILL THERE half an hour later…. If you knew ANYTHING at all about the atmosphere (which you don’t) you’d pipe down… As it is you’re loudmouthing away, and I can’t stop you.

haarp2

Read the patent holders comments about the multiple uses of H.A.A.R.P.” – It’s used to HEAT a line-of-sight AREA of the ionosphere. It is less effective than my microwave is for warming my tea. It’s a research establishment studying aspects of the near-vacuum in the ionosphere. It cannot be aimed directly at your arse unless you’re flying at 110,000 ft over Alaska…. and if you were, you wouldn’t feel a thing…. being a radio establishment it has strategic possibilities, but catalyzing clouds over Europe, for instance, is not one of them. It has the “beam focussing power” of Mr. Magoo.

mr_magoo

N.A.S.A.’s comments on ozone replacement” – Go like “stop air travel and your problems will disappear (until the next volcanic eruption)”.

U.S.A.F.’s fuel additives” – Boron hydride? Nitromethane? Pfft – a few fast fighters? Solid additives to fuels would be REALLY DANGEROUS to the planes. Liquid additives couldn’t include aluminum or barium for various technical reasons. BLOOD PRODUCTS are a JOKE – surely? *(Since this I realize you were reanimating the MYTH that there is Ethylene Dibromide in JP-8). Wrong!

world wide spray programme” – Unachievable. THE WORLD IS FIFTY TIMES THE AREA OF THE UNITED STATES!

German airforce admits to mass spraying“* – A MOMENTARY CHAFF RELEASE IS NOT “MASS SPRAYING”. How is your ability to be LOGICAL? *(Since then I have discovered that this was a fraudulent mis-translation of the original German. Vicious.)

U.S. sprays radar imaging materials over Afghanistan” – Pfft. Next can please….

reports from pilots and air traffic controllers” – EVERY ONE OF THEM SO FAR OUT OF CONTEXT AS TO BE A LIE. More fraud.

real events happening above us daily” – A million tons of combusted kerosine = a million tons of stratospheric ice, mostly sublimed to water vapour, is what is REALLY happening daily.

I do not deny alot of the footage and discussion on the net is ill-informed and plain wrong” – GOOD.

William Thomas’ analysis of this subject” – HAVEN’T SEEN IT. SHALL LOOK.

it is not as simple as you try to write it off as in your videos and comments” – OH, YES IT IS! My videos are MUSICAL. Shows how hard YOU research…

I can provide url’s to all this information” – Oh, God. Send them.

And a final note your formula is for carbonated water not soda pop” – Haha. True, but a damned sight closer than ANY chemtrail statement!

soda-syphon

Hahahahaha… …you all think you’re original and it’s the same old PAP! POP?

In return for wading through WT and your urls I demand you check out my blog.

There are at least SOME TRUE THINGS stated there…..

OUTSIDE IN

PAINT

paint

“aluminum, anthrax*, lupus*, fungus*, silver iodide*, barium, bacteria*, titanium” – Those marked * would be incinerated by a gas turbine. A turbofan’s exhaust is as STERILE as a hospital SURGERY. The rest you will find are COMMON INGREDIENTS OF HOUSEHOLD PAINT (Well, not the barium or silver)..

“the COMBINATION of pollens, auto fumes, and urban smog can cause severe auto-immune failure, asthma, and death in the young, weak, or elderly”

pollution

I’m quoting myself here. Didn’t you read it? HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!

PASSION

“Admire your passion” – that’s me – passionately pissed-off by brainless panic-mongering.

“prior to 1998 are extremely rare” – Cheap video cameras were. Persistent contrails WEREN’T.

“of military origin” – Military? THEY take pictures of EVERYTHING.

“trails are spewing directly from the plane” – EASILY HAPPENS in super-saturated air. You ought to thank your lucky stars when you see that, for it means THE AIR IS VERY CLEAN.

“FAA tells contrails appear a wing-span distance from back” – That’s a ROUGH GUIDE. That distance REALLY depends on the VELOCITY of the plane and the TEMPERATURE and HUMIDITY OF THE AMBIENT AIR.

“you consider temp as well, not only humidity” – Do you think I don’t know that?

“The avg temp easily estimated even from ground temp measurement” – NO IT IS NOT. It is a ROUGH GUIDE through the TROPOSPHERE and NO GUIDE AT ALL AFTER THE TROPOPAUSE. ABOVE THE TROPOPAUSE THE TEMPERATURE IS NEVER WARMER THAN -40 DEG C. IT CAN BE -80 DEG C.

“ground temp of 30 C or more it is hardly likely that a plane flying low enough 2 be visible by the naked eye could produce a normal contrail” – IF IT’S ABOVE THE TROPOPAUSE THAT WON’T BE A TRUE STATEMENT, WILL IT?

“let alone a lasting plume” – In SATURATED AIR in the STRATOSPHERE there is NO WAY those ICE CRYSTALS WILL DISAPPEAR. Sunlight REFLECTS OFF them. That is WHY they are WHITE.

PENITENT (The Longest Day II)

SweetiePie
Informative hub. I learned something new.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for responding, SweetiePie!

randomlight
Nice summation; well done.

Fabrizio
Hi Bard, good article. Yes, chemitrails are real but important is detect and differe them from the common contrails. Of course, the amount of metallic matter in them is a good way for understand they are not a simple condensation.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, randomlight and Fabrizio!

Darol (cd4sunshine)
Very nicely put Bard although the small part about reference to “persistant contrails vs. Chemtrails” really makes no difference as the USAF is gonna say no matter what ya wannna callem, they have always been there and ain’t hurtin’ no one,,,,,RIGHT

Bard of Ely
I am sure you are right, Darol, but I put that in because I know Rosalind thought it was important and I was attempting to give as full a picture as possible!

shipsuperstore
Many a conspiracy at the top they will never tell us, thanks for the insight and I did see the show you referenced on Discovery. Good job.

Bard of Ely
Thank you! It was good that Discovery did a program on it and even though it didn’t really go very far it nevertheless was one of the first reports by the media to give any coverage to the subject!

Madhavi Bhatia
Dear Bard, this is a rather horrifying subject. I’ve never actually heard of this before. The only chemical trails that i”ve heard of are the ones behind jet planes and of course spills of pesticides and insecticides that are sprayed by planes on the american and russian farms. Would you please write a more encyclopedic article on this on the copper wiki. My friends and i would be extremely grateful. The site is http://www.copperwiki.org Do check out some of the articles on sunscreen and eco fibres and please do send feedback when and if you get the time. thanks

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Mhadavi, and I agree it is a “horrifying subject” and this is perhaps why some people go into denial about it and say everything is OK and it’s just vapour trails. This puzzles other people who are alarmed by what they can see in the sky and what they have found out. And these trails and skies covered in the artificial clouds they make is a new occurrence. If you look at photos from around the world from over ten years back there are normal skies with blue skies and white clouds ot perhaps grey ones but never skies streaked with trails and skies covered in whitish haze from such trails. It just doesn’t add up! When I left the Uk in 2004 the sky wasn’t covered in trails but when I went back in 2007 it was! Something has changed! If you add in the admitted reports of military chaff then of course people will be concerned. Whatever is going on it has, as you can see here, spawned a whole new terminology and a movement of people. If I can find time I will submit an article for that site so thank you for the suggestion!

Life_of_Purpose1
Bard, Great post! I have been talking to people about chemtrails quite a bit. It is about awareness and getting others informed. Most people have not even a second thought to look up and see the obvious “writing in the sky”. They are getting better and better in making them look like nice, natural whispy clouds to fool the sheeple. We notice how there will be criss crosses all over the sky one day and the next couple, none. I wonder if we will ever know the truth, what they are, why, and how do they detirme where they spray. There have been many postulations of the ominous reasons to spray of which include keeping us from evolving spiritually and acheiving enlightenment. I find it an interesting speculation as most things in this world, especially instituted by the government, do carry this side effect. Looking forward to learning and sharing more…Namaste, Dre

The How To Hub
A little timeline – I am 31 years old and have grown up in Australia. As a teenager I used to see the trails and think they were cool, you know like the air force jets with the coloured smoke displays…..my perspective as an adult is ….HORROR. What kind of world are we going to leave our future generations?

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Dre and Shaye! Dre, I have heard the points you have made but I thank you for posting them here for others to read. Shaye, I have a British friend who doesn’t accept that chemtrails are harmful but who thinks they are pretty. Personally I think, and a lot of people share this opinion, whether they are harmful or not, a sky with old-fashioned fluffy clouds that make ptictures in the sky for the mind’s eye is far superior aesthetically to a sky graffitied with lines and criss-crosses and finally a whitish haze of false cloud. And that is another part of it – weather forecasts nowadays often talk about haze and hazy conditions. We never used to have all this haze but had skies with clouds or without but not the mess that is so often there now. As Dre, has pointed out some days there is none of this and then the skies return to how they were meant to be.

Karen Ellis
We have them here in Oregon as well. It seems this is a world wide problem? On the days that chemtrails are being used, the planes criss-cross the sky and before you know it, instead of a beautiful blue-skyed day, you have complete overcast.

Bard of Ely
Yes, Karen, and the picture you describe is being reported over and over and over again and IF anyone manages to get any sort of response from anyone official they will say that what is being seen is normal and they are harmless contrails! How can it be harmless to cut out the light with such a cloud cover? Of course, it can’t! We never used to have skies like these! Thanks for posting!

The Bull
Bard, Wow…You have opened my eyes and mind at the same time… I live in the Northeast on the coast of the US…minutes from the Bush compound – Walkers point. The airspace is littered with intenational flights heading to Boston’s Logan and various NY hubs. We also maintain one of the largest US Airforce runways at Portsmouth, NH Pease Air base (only SAC refuling now). The resulting asthma, allergies, flu-like illness, respiratory and sinus problems, nose bleed, fatigue and depression, tinnitis, sight problems and inflammation of the eyes, dizziness, skin rashes, high blood pressure and pneumonia STATISTICS would be very interesting to calculate for this region. Do you have any ideas how I may find this information out statistically? The Bull

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Bull! I don’t personally know how you’d get such answers but I would thank that someone at the chemtrailtrackingusa forum would and what’s more the members would welcome such an idea – there is often the call there for ways of doing something that produces scientific data that can be given to the authorities and the debunkers so they can be asked to explain it! In other words we need to be able to talk their language back at them. Please consider joining and posting there if only for the one thread. The link is at the bottom of my article.

rmr
Very informative! I have been reading about contrails for years, but I have never heard them referred to as chemtrails before. I have noticed, though, that many of them do seem to have a lot more hang time lately. I live relatively close to a major airport, and have noticed that, on some days, there are upwards of 100 contrails in the sky, while on others there are only a few.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for your feedback, rmr! You have a mystery there whether they are harmless or not! Debunkers of the subject say the trails only persist in certain atmospheric conditions to which my question is why did such conditions not exist until in the last decade or so in which chemtrails have been reported? There are two airports on this island and plenty of planes in and out but mostly no chemtrails, however, when I went back to Cardiff in Wales last year the skies were covered in trails daily as was the airport there and it didn’t used to be like that!

Lou Purplefairy
Great hub Steve, and as you well know a subject close to my heart as an active campaigner for the awarenes of persistent contrails (chemtrails). We have lots and lots of PC (persistent contrails) here in Devon UK, and most ppl do not bat an eyelid at them, till I alert them to the possibility of what they actually are and how to tell them apart from real contrails. Most ppl are surprised that this subject is not covered by the media, and the intelligent ones are concerned by its conspicuous abscence, as it it not even ridiculed as a hoax in the media. I have witness chembows (as you know) sun halos and a myriad of PC’s in various formations. The freak weather we have had in economically poor areas in recent times is confirmation for me that some sort of NWO plan to eradicate “the useless eater population” is in full swing. I still do my research and blog on the matter.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for the feedback, Lou, and yes, I know you know what is going on!

JazzRoc
You may believe that chemtrails are real, O Bard, but you are wrong. You are wrong, and you cannot prove you are right. Your “proof” is that “thousands of people say so”. These people that “say so” share many, and perhaps all, of the attributes of people that believe the Earth is flat, the Sun goes round the Earth, that God made Man “in his own image” (6,000 years ago!), and we CANNOT possibly have evolved from an ape-like creature five million years ago, that we are “imbued with a soul”, and if we “please God” we will “go to Heaven” after our body dies and rots. These people are DELUDED by their own ignorance and fear. They, on the whole, suffered through their educational period (personally I found it unpleasant even while top of the a-stream in a grammar school) and never learned to respect the opinions of people more able than they were to grasp essential scientific principles. Otherwise they would, of course, believe the word of atmospheric scientists who have for decades been telling these people that persistent contrails are a natural by-product of large-scale mass air transit.
The first queries as to why the sky turned white were made in the late fifties and early sixties, so the topic is NOT exactly a new one. Even before that collisions occurred between close-flying Flying Fortress bombers on 1000-bomber daylight bombing raids on Germany between 1943 and 1945 when they too turned the skies white with the exhausts from their 18-cylinder radial engines in particularly cold and humid conditions. If a million tons of kerosine are burned daily (yes!) in the stratosphere, which is thin and cold and easily humidified with relatively small amounts of water, then large areas of the sky are going to turn WHITE. This is the “white” of ice crystals – water! The rest is fanciful paranoia, with a small amount of LIES, DECEIT and FRAUD. For that, blame Carnicom and some ignorant and some shameless YouTubers. You should be ashamed of yourself. If you were better-educated, Bard, you would be. Your activity is harming society. I have amassed quite a lot of support literature at https://jazzroc.wordpress.com and invite your response…

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting your opinions, Jazzroc, however, I am no further convinced by your arguments!

JazzRoc
Perhaps after all you REALLY ought to read my wordpress blog. In it you will find confirmation of everything I have mentioned above, and directly-attributable quotes from specialist atmospheric scientists, graphs, details and photographs of almost all relevant material, specific proofs of chemtrailers’ fraudulent claims and blow-by-blow debunks of EVERY chemtrail claim. What more can one do, when confronted by a deluded and harmful person who is determined in his ignorance to do further harm? Well, advise you NOT to visit the US, I suppose. THERE they have the Patriot Act (which is not my idea of nice legislation!) What you are doing falls within the parameters of that act, and newly-trained and less sympathetic people there might well take it upon themselves to “educate” you, seeing as you are obviously determined never to do the job yourself.
Even in a British society noted for its tolerance of stupidity you might find that at some time in the near future (these are changing times!) your ignorant disregard of scientific principles, technocratic excellence and social decency will cause you to fall foul of the law. Don’t ever say I didn’t warn you…

Bard of Ely
JazzRoc, I have read your blog, and as it happens it is now probably being read by some freemasons – as I saw earlier that one has left a link to it and a recommendation in the Universal Freemason’s message board of which I am a member. I have told you that I don’t agree with you but you do not appear to be able to agree to disagree but become insulting and threatening in tone (warning me) and how you expect anyone to want to hear from you when you adopt these ways I really don’t know. However, as I have also told you, I don’t believe that this subject should all be a one-sided debate of chemtrail believers agreeing with chemtrailbelievers and on the other side the scientific debunkers all debunking – I would suggest that both sides have much to learn but they cannot do so if stuck viewpoints are held! You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it and I don’t simple as that. You don’t believe in God and I do!
I happen to agree with you that there are people who are ill and blaming chemtrails may not be ill from chemtrails but from other sources. I also agree with you that the crosses are in completely different levels of the sky and only look like crosses from down below. You see I don’t totally disagree with you but on the other hand I am convinced that chemtrails are very real and that weather modification is one definite use they are being put to, but I have told you that before.
You call people “uneducated” but what does that mean? It means that they don’t happen to agree with the official version of things perhaps – I certainly don’t! Scientists can and do lie and if you want an example, fluoride is one that springs to mind and mercury amalgam being another! There are many people active in the opposition to chemtrails who are educated to university standard eg Dr Stephen McKay whom I have mentioned in the article. I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people’s standards. Education though is often indoctrination and manipulation turning out people to carry on the system and brainwashed to believe what they are told not to think for themselves!

JazzRoc
“it is now probably being read by some freemasons” – what a horrible thought! “Universal Freemason’s message board of which I am a member” – what, another horrible thought! “insulting and threatening in tone” – without a doubt you are a fool, for you are still ever-ready to accept baseless arguments and reject the remorseless logic of mine. I advised you not to visit the US, nor Britain after 2012. Personally I’ll admit to finding it difficult to be pleasant to someone like you who is practically as dangerous as a bomb-wielding terrorist with your spreading of lies and fear. I regard you now exactly the way I regard arms dealers. You are living in a safe spot and a safe era where your wickedness is going unpunished, but that won’t last for ever. “you expect anyone to want to hear from you” – I certainly won’t lie to gain plausibility like the people YOU believe. “both sides have much to learn” – Science and the truth of Science is not a democracy. Only ONE side is utterly ignorant in this case, and it’s YOURS. You have learnt nothing and are telling lies as a consequence. “You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it” – I put no FAITH in Science. That’s like putting FAITH in Mathematics. Is one FAITHFUL to LOGIC, or merely LOGICAL? “You don’t believe in God and I do!” – Which God is this? The jealous one? The one who made the Universe in six days six thousand years ago? “I am convinced that chemtrails are very real” – As real as your god, santa claus, and the tooth fairy. “weather modification is one definite use they are being put to” – Sure thing. The three million four hundred thousand tons of barium required to provide a mono-molecular coating over the whole Earth would only take eighty-five thousand tanker sorties using one and a half million tons of fuel. And, of course, next week, you’d have to repeat it, etc.
“You call people “uneducated” but what does that mean?” – It means believing “weather modification is one definite use they are being put to”. “Educated” is what I have just demonstrated to you: the ready use of mathematics and a true knowledge of the properties of the Earth to show you just what foolishness you speak. “I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people’s standards” – Hmm. And I’ve seen those standards fall year after year. By my standards you are DIM. If I were as dim as you are I’d keep my stupid mouth shut. It seems you are too dim to understand how dim you are. That IS a shame… “believe what they are told, not to think for themselves” – How ironic! Shine a light on that…ah, but your batteries are low, and your light bulb glows a faint orange… lacking scientific understanding, you cannot see how misled you have been, and how misleading and dangerous you now are.

Bard of Ely
It appears from all that that we are no longer friends seeing as you keep on insulting me and are so bigoted in your views. You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion and are another form of the thought police. Yes, I do believe people like David Icke and Clifford Carnicom whom you condemn. I have tried to present a balance of views here by letting you have your say and included them in the article above but it clearly isn’t working and maybe this is why all the chemtrail sites block you?
The Freemason who has posted your link found it here where you posted it and that is freedom of information as it should be! Seeing as you think so lowly of me now what do you make of Beck who has released a new song called Chemtrails? I applaud him for putting the subject in the mainstream world of pop music!

Eric Graudins
I’ve never heard of chemtrails. Thanks for writing this hub. JazzRoc – If your case is correct, you’ve considerably weakened it by the way you have chosen to argue your point here.

Bard of Ely
Hi Eric! Thanks for posting!

JazzRoc
Eric, my case is correct. If I were arguing with someone who simply misunderstood contrails I might be more polite, but there is more to it than that. You would do well to leaf through https://jazzroc.wordpress.com
Bard: “we are no longer friends” – that’s as it should be. You won’t find arms dealers in my list of friends either. “you keep on insulting me” – I keep on describing you as an ignorant person who is way above your head, and causing harm within our society by insisting that people you do not know are deliberately poisoning the whole of our society, using baseless assertions and faulty reasoning. You’ve GOT to be stupid, because I cannot see you as THAT intelligent and malevolent. “so bigoted in your views” – I see you’ve decided I’m not “programmed” (that’s the usual one) so I must be simply bigoted. It seems to me that you consider the understanding of science to be a form of bigotry. Well, we live in a scientific and technological world, and here we are using that very technology to conduct this argument. You are arguing with a man who has tested jet engines in their test beds, helped in the construction of the supersonic wind tunnel used to test the Concord’s engines, helped in the construction of the nuclear decanning plant in Windscale, helped in the construction of the world’s first ethernet network, and the world’s first modern electric city car. (And many other things, but that’s by-the-by). I know exactly how gas turbines work and exactly how their exhausts work in the stratosphere, and exactly how the stratosphere functions from my personal work experience. This isn’t a “view”. I can BUILD these things.
You turn up with your “fear of science”, read a whole bunch of foolish and baseless and totally inaccurate assumptions in a scientific field you don’t understand at all, and accuse INNOCENTS of attempted GENOCIDE. Who is the BIGOT here?
“You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion” – This IS “freedom of thought and opinion”. How can your statement be correct? “are another form of the thought police” – Really! “I have tried to present a balance of views” – We aren’t talking about a “balance of views”. Science is not a “balance of views”. You’re either CORRECT or WRONG. “it clearly isn’t working” – It’s working fine from my perspective. You are doing EVIL and I’m trying to prevent you, albeit unsuccessfully so far. I’m trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.
I’m also showing others that this ludicrous topic is opposed by scientists and other educated people. It is we who are doing things in this society, we who provide the wealth and power for travel and information systems (like this one) to the benefit of everyone. We have been able to do this by years of poorly-paid study, experiment and practice. We are professionals and deserve respect for our abilities and achievements – not this ignorant and shocking diatribe to which we are subjected.
In 1981, as our small team of electronics engineers clustered around an oscilloscope in a Wood Green laboratory which was demonstrating for the first time in the world that it was possible to send information down a wire at a rate of a hundred megabits per second (and we knew we were witnessing the start of a world revolution in information), nothing would have led me to believe that twenty-seven years later I would find myself using this fabulous system to conduct arguments about contrails with dumbed-down and deluded pseudo-scientists. How IRONIC!

Bard of Ely
“I’m trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.” – You are trying to tell me what to do and how to think and no one has the right to do that to anyone else! Do you send your insulting opinions to all the well known authors/speakers who believe and talk about chemtrails or do you only post your one-sided opinion and rudeness on the sites of people like me and those who post chemtrail videos? And if you feel that America and the UK would find my opinions illegal, then if you are right then it only goes to show that these countries are fascist non-democratic police states, which many believe anyway.
When we first met I thought we could get on well but clearly I was wrong. I do not like arguments and this is what this is. We had a big falling out before in which I deleted you at Myspace and swore and you have detailed that in your blog. I am not going to react with anger that way this time but as you admit here we are no longer friends I will delete you at Myspace. If Kingfisher is ever a money-making success I would see that you got your share. It seems that is all we share. I am not surprised that people at YouTube and chemtrail sites complain about you if this is an example of how you act. It is not a debate about a subject but a rude verbal assault by you who will not tolerate others having their beliefs or opinions or to post these in public
.

Eric Graudins
How timely. Tim Flannery, one of Australia’s top scientists has proposed that Global Warning could be slowed by injecting sulphur into the top levels of the atmosphere. He says that it could be put there by mixing it with jet fuel. This would be called “Global Dimming”.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for the link, Eric! Yes, I saw the news on this proposed insanity at Alex Jones’ site.

Debbie Peace love
Hi Bard Are you sure that Jazzroc isn’t a fox news presenter because he sure does sound like one to me. When they lose their arguments they resort to petty playgrond name calling and insults. Because they have lost the debate and cannot bring an intelligent debate to the table.
As you are aware I take a keen interest in chemtrails. Anyone who tells me they do not exist had better open their eyes and look up to the sky! You would have to be blind not to see them. Over here in the UK they make pretty pictures of chemtrails. We get the noughts and crosses obviously pilots having a game of tic tac toe. Well they have to dump whatever their dumping so they may of well have some fun. We get circles, loads of pretty pictures over here. Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go! Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings! Planes usually advertise who they are up in the skies.
Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems? Considering less people smoke. Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too. Also this may have something to do with the honeybee’s demise too.
Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials. If they were ordinary contrails I am sure we would have had something on the media by now trying to debunk the “Chemtrail Theorists” However, their silence is deafening. Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain! Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many “Coincidences” concerning chemtrails.
Why is jazzroc so angry? If he disagrees with you on chemtrails then that is his prerogative. However, to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear. I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing. Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!
IF you don’t want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view. When someone throws nasty insults and name calling. Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.

Bard of Ely
Debbie, thank you very much for posting and your support on this! To be fair to Jazzroc, though he doesn’t extend much fairness to me, he does provide a lot of info in his blog, which he has provided the link for and is worth reading, however, it doesn’t satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject, as I have already pointed out. It is a shame that it appears that Jazzroc has got himself excluded from sites where he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails and reports of daily coverage of their skies like get reported at chemtrailtrackingusa group for example. However, it seems that he doesn’t want to listen to what others say but just believes he is right so they must be wrong and then he wishes to impose his views on them, which I have called a bigoted approach. When they fail to accept what he says he does what he has done to me – he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting.
I think the point you raise on the media silence is a very valid one. Jazzroc would probably say the media cannot report on something that doesn’t exist but I would say the media has reported in great detail on things that don’t exist such as the weapons of mass destruction that were never found and other government lies. And if there is nothing to fear from the chemtrails then why doesn’t the media get someone who can explain it to do so? Why doesn’t Jazzroc volunteer instead of carrying on his barrage of insults and debunking posts? I would have thought the media could call upon scientific ‘experts’ to explain the matter but they do not do so! Maybe Beck’s song Chemtrails will bring the subject into the public mainstream arena where it belongs. According to Wikipedia, his song has been played on BBC R1, which maybe the first time the BBC has used the word chemtrails. I searched their site long ago and it isn’t there, although contrails are and defined as harmless
.

JazzRoc
Debbie Peace Love: “Are you sure that Jazzroc isn’t a fox news presenter” – I’m a retired engineer living fifteen miles away from the Bard in Tenerife. Are you sure you aren’t being abusive here? “open their eyes and look up to the sky” – and you’ll see contrails. If you look at the sky you’ll see the Sun go round the Earth. Now, DOES the Sun go round the Earth? “Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go!” – You can tell all that from seven miles beneath? You should get a job in Air Traffic Control. They need you! “Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings” – Your first unwittingly ignorant question. It’s a physical phenomenon called “blue light scattering”. Educate yourself. Try WIKI. “Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems considering less people smoke?” – Because there has been a huge increase in arable farming, with new crops with new pollens, industry is still increasing using exotic materials with dangerous dusts when cutting and grinding without adequate air filtration, because urban photochemical smogs are still increasing, and finally because power stations are burning less safe materials as the world’s oil supplies dwindle. The Western diet of over-processed foods with too much meat and too little fruit, coupled with high-stress levels and poor exercise regimens and contaminated water supplies doesn’t help at all. Overall, this is an already complex intermix of factors by itself, requiring a massive statistical effort to sort out – before you come along with IMAGINARY ills. “Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too?” – Look it up in WIKI. In Science as a whole, FACTS are established using DUPLICATION of results and PEER REVIEW of research. This HASN’T HAPPENED WITH MORGELLONS’ CLAIMS. Ergo – it’s NOT Science and NOT TRUE. “Also this may have something to do with the honeybee’s demise too.” – May it? See above. You must remember that scientists get famous for discovering things, so the pressures are there to make these discoveries. See above. “Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials?” – They have tried it on, burnt their fingers, and won’t do it again! “Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!” – Or perhaps, the humid air that creates the contrails eventually causes rain? “Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many “Coincidences” concerning chemtrails.” – There are too many “coincidences” in the minds of those that are deluded!
“Why is jazzroc so angry?” – I should cheer when ignorant “Chicken Littles” accuse innocent people of attempted mass murder, should I? “to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear.” – Of course I have something to fear! STUPIDITY is a DANGEROUS thing in a technological world! “I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing.” – I doubt whether you could appreciate proof if you met it. You need a modicum of scientific understanding which you’ve already demonstrated you don’t have. However, there’s always WIKI and my blog “Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!” – A bit more than that, dear. I’m a scientist. And an artist. And a musician. “IF you don’t want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view.” – The sun – does it ACTUALLY go round the earth? “When someone throws nasty insults and name calling.” – They need to be STOPPED! Your hypocrisy is showing! Or hadn’t you noticed that CHEMTRAILS insult hard-working, decent professional people (and anyone else who has a modicum of commonsense)? “Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.” – All that glitters is not gold. You may read, but you patently do not understand. A fool is what YOU are.
Bard: “it doesn’t satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject” – You demand to be spoon-fed scientific understanding, but it doesn’t come that way. You must study for years for such understanding to arrive. If you DO NOT HAVE this understanding, you will NEVER be satisfied. In the interim, perhaps you could moderate your pseudo-scientific assertions….
“he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails – it seems that he doesn’t want to listen to what others say” – I thought it was I that was the insulting person. I have read what people have said, and it is obvious that there is no direct link. We ALL breathe in a mass of dusts, pollens, viruses and bacteria with every breath we take. Our bodies have a tolerance for doing this which has been EARNED by the deaths of countless millions of our predecessors over four billion years.
“I have called a bigoted approach” – The correct approach to YOUR “chemtrail” bigotry.
“he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting” – How is it that you continually forget the nature of your claim? Why can’t you see that you ARE what you claim ME to be?
“why doesn’t the media get someone who can explain it to do so?” – Because it is too difficult and boring a job for them (they would LOSE ratings)!
“the media could call upon scientific ‘experts’ to explain the matter” – I am such an expert. How successful am I?
“contrails are defined as harmless” – And of course they are. It is YOUR BEHAVIOUR that is harmful.

Bard of Ely
Jazzroc, I will let Debbie reply to you here if she so wishes. I would ask you this: if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects? Please see: http://www.setiai.com/archives/000064.html So whether its water vapor converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same – less light gets through. This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!

JazzRoc
Really, Bard, I wonder what happens when you address yourself to read something! I could answer your question from my internal understanding, but just in case there was a built-in trick I addressed myself to the text in question, and found it answered your question completely!
“if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut(ting) out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects?” NO. Like all navigating animals on Earth, bees are NOT reliant on the visible Sun for navigation. Any such creatures that were SOLELY reliant upon the Sun would have been rendered extinct by the first large volcanic outburst or cometary impact than obscured the Sun for a sufficiently large period. And there been quite a few of these over the preceding 500,000,000 years. Bees sense the Sun, polarized light, landscape features, magnetic fields, and use two techniques of distance measurement (the latter one “optical flow” is new to me, but entirely unsurprising). What follows is a direct quote from the article: “All of these senses are redundant. That is to say, remove any one of them and the bee will probably still be able to navigate without problems. When the sun is obscured by clouds or trees, but patches of blue sky are still visible, the honey bee is able to use polarized light as a backup navigation system. The light coming directly from the sun is unpolarised. Some of this sunlight, however, is scattered by air molecules and a pattern of polarized light is set up in the sky. This pattern consists of a roughly circular set of gradients centered around the sun. The polarization is at its most intense at a 90′ angle from the sun. By detecting the polarization angle bees are able to infer the location of the sun. Exactly how they manage to do this is still unknown.”
Did you actually READ this? It ANSWERS the question you put to me! Do you know what “redundant” means in this context?
“So whether it’s water vapour converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same – less light gets through.” – Here you once again demonstrate your scientific ignorance. “Toxic particles” cannot flow through the gas-turbine injectors. Injectors are hardened steel precision-ground tubes with very small internal diameters. Flow-control valves also clog if fine solids pass through them. In fact, they must both be protected by a high-capacity low-micron filter, which, of course, would stop solids. DUSTS PUT OUT ENGINES. Passenger aircraft are built down to a price by civilian businesses. Their wings contain spars, tanks and control equipment. They are built to very tight tolerances and riveted or glued down firmly. They do not have “empty spaces” and “extra pumps and nozzles” built into them for CHEMICAL ATTACK.
“Less light gets through” – It has been demonstrated by two different scientists using two different techniques in two different parts of the Earth that incident sunlight falling on the earth has been reduced by at least 15% over the last forty years. It is attributed to the industrial revolution, not just in the west, but in the middle and far east – it’s the consequence of COMBUSTION IN GENERAL. It is known that the contribution of air travel is 3% of this.
“This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!” – The Sun has formed halos in the Earth’s stratosphere for four-and-a half billion years. The ice crystals that form such a halo are PURE. Any more than the single nucleating molecule at its centre (which every water droplet or ice crystal needs to form at all) and crystal formation is interfered with, and the halo effect disappears also.
You should know this, Steve, as we FREQUENTLY see halo effects round both Sun and Moon here, but NEVER when the KALIMA dust is in the sky. Hadn’t you noticed?

Bard of Ely
Yes, I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool then this could be what has messed them up and I note that they are OK here where we do not get many trails or blanket coverage with artificial cloud. Back in the UK where I went I saw trails and white cloud covering large areas made by these trails and the bees have nearly vanished so I joined the dots.
You make an excellent point about the halos and I know that they are dependent on water vapor so dust (or particles) should not produce this effect. I have to admit what you say makes sense to me on that.
If solid particles cannot go through the engines, which makes sense to me too, how did Teller’s sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulfur? To my knowledge both aluminum (Teller) and sulfur (Flannery) are solids.
I assume that these substances would be sprayed from tanks with nozzles etc that you say are not in passenger planes but whilst that may well be the case, what about military planes? Surely they can have these adaptations?

JazzRoc
“I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool” – and there’s your paradox – “redundant” means “if an element is removed, the function of the remainder persists”.
“blanket coverage with artificial cloud” – All these clouds are cirrus. In supersaturated air the ice crystals of cirrus clouds, whether natural or man-made contrails, will gain weight and fall until they become diffuse clouds of water droplets (stratus) or if they reach the ground – fog. This fog, whatever its origination, is practically pure water. The impurities (and we’re talking fractions of a percent here) will be soot (from a gas turbine) or aluminum silicate (from the land) or methyl sulfide (from the sea). NONE of these will poison bees. The most likely killer of bees is a virus. The second most likely killer is a bacterium. The third most likely is a fungus. The fourth most likely is another strain of bees. Use your commonsense. Cities and industrial landscapes occupy about 2% of the Earth’s surface area – there may be cumulative effects for which they share a worldwide responsibility, like increasing proportions of carbon and sulfur dioxides in the air, but aircraft have only a 3% share in this. It is more likely that Nature itself is killing the bees.
It is very unfortunate (but obviously true) that these bee enemies are also arranged in the order of being the most difficult to discover. You have to remember (if you ever knew) that due to the incredible scales involved, finding a specific lethal bacterium on a bee might be like finding a single unknown person in a city, and that finding a single lethal virus on a bee (it might be INSIDE a bacterium!) might be like finding a single unique person on Earth – namely VERY much harder than finding a needle in a haystack – in fact well-nigh impossible.
“I joined the dots” – but only the dots you could see…”how did Teller’s sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulfur” – Teller’s proposal was never answered. Flannery’s was to use rockets, but this engineer can tell you now that the whole proposal was flaky, and very much more likely to do harm than good. After all, what is acid rain? (Er – sulfur dioxide meets water – makes sulfuric acid!) How good is THAT for trees? “To my knowledge both aluminum (Teller) and sulphur (Flannery) are solids” – It isn’t impossible to turn both into organic liquids. Sulfur is fairly easy, aluminum difficult and expensive. (Barium is much more difficult and is so dense and reactive that specially-lined tanks and mechanical stirrers would be required!)
However on the scale of the Earth you can forget it. I’ve told you already that a single shot of barium for the Earth would require 3.4 million tons. That’s for a single pass… Can you envisage the US (and who else could it be?) shelling up for 85,000 KC105 tanker flights on a weekly basis, when its economy is about to go down the tubes? The whole idea is ridiculous. The surface area of the Earth is fifty times larger than the United States.
“what about military planes?” – It’s your best argument, but doesn’t pan out when you consider the logistics. See above.
You say you have read my blog. I can tell you’re not telling me the truth, for this is thoroughly answered there, and here I’m forced to repeat myself.
As I have said before, Steve, you cannot defeat me using scientific argument, because I know the science involved. If you really get down to basics (and of course you can’t!) I would fight you all the way and still end up the winner.
Your side knows this and has found other ways to defeat me – by blocking, by corruption, by fraud, by lying. But never by science. Blocking and corruption are beyond my powers to overcome, but occasionally I have defeated fraud. And lies are easy to deal with.
What I would like for you to do (apart from stopping making all these false assertions!) is come up with questions which really challenge me, and not questions which any book on atmospheric physics or topical science programme can answer.
And here is one for you. In my blog there is a link to a fascinating British invention which provides a safe, easy, cheap and reversible method of controlling and reducing Global Warming. What is it?

Bard of Ely
Tony, I have had a big realisation and not sure how I missed this apart from by association – I saw trails and white hazy skies and sun halos and my logic said the halos were caused by what was in the trails. However, because I was believing the trails were bad I was assuming the halos had to be too and had read how they are a sign in the Hopi system of the end of this system which added to my belief they are bad. But in doing this I was failing to see something I know – that halos form when there is water vapour, not when there is dust or particles. Therefore, looking at this now it means that the white trails and white artificial cloud cover would appear to be, as you and other non CT-believers have said, water vapour turning to ice crystals! This means that “chembows” would also be made of water. This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!

fant 169

JazzRoc
Crumbs, Steve. Answers like this REALLY pull the rug out from under my feet! I am so accustomed to dogged argument that I don’t really know now what to say. 🙂 Except, of course, that there is much more to this than what we have covered so far, and even if “chemtrails” don’t exist, then for sure most ills suffered by both Man and Nature are STILL down to Man!
My point all the way through my “campaign” against “chemtrails” is that WHILE “chemtrails” are the focus of attention, the REAL problems are NOT ADDRESSED.

Namely, people ARE suffering from lung and skin allergic reactions, and possibly dying. These people will be the young, the old, the poor, and people who have already been weakened by some other disease. Not having “media share”, they can slip away without causing a stir or attracting attention. Awful. And I’m fairly sure that’s happening, not from any particular facts I possess (except perhaps my own intense allergy to Britain’s summer months!), but from a half-century of experience in the ways of the world.
I have watched the quality of Britain’s air, water, and food drop decade by decade. And the quality of life! The fuddy-duddy “Empah” values, stiff-upper-lip, reserve, and artificial politeness PRESERVED a life quality we have LOST. Lack of stress! Peace!
I’m also concerned about CARS. In the sixties the Conservative transport minister Dr. Beeching removed half our rail network. This rail network was a web of railway that reached to every town and virtually every village in the country. It was a fabulous real estate asset because it was JOINED UP, and could hence be converted – perhaps into a clean and efficient tramway, or a road, or a canal, or an information highway. Or maybe left as part of a modern automatic railway. Well, once broken up and flogged off as packets of land no longer joined up, that which cost the Victorians SO much trouble was cast to the wind…
In the seventies there was the Oil Crisis, when the price of oil tripled overnight. “Now” I thought “there is bound to be a drive towards light and efficient people movers!” What did we build? 4 by 4’s, juggernauts as big and heavy as the monsters built in the US during the fifties! The SUPERMARKET “juggernauts” drove across our valleys in the eighties, removing trees and hedges and small-holdings in their factory-farming “techno-park” drive to produce consistently-sized, brightly-coloured, poisoned, tasteless “vegetable” (or “animal”) pap, leaving in their wake air filled with herbicides, pesticides, and pollens, and sordid concentration camps of bird and animal suffering. And then the cars. Without a decent railway or bus system or information system we were forced into cars. (Not you, Steve, I know.) Thousands of cars. MILLIONS of cars. On occasion the M25 was a stationary six-lane CAR PARK (with all engines running) for a HUNDRED MILES. What in God’s Name sort of LUNACY is THAT? Cars, poisoned air, poisoned water, denatured food, the mass-torture of birds and animals. Rudeness in public. Temporary and demeaning employment. Fraud in Banking and Insurance. Mortgage and Equity crises. Lying politicians. Foreign war. STRESS… BRITAIN!
Chemtrails are simply (apart from their nonexistence) SURPLUS TO REQUIREMENT.
The anti-GW invention is the salt-spray trimaran of Dr. Stephen Salter. Apart from turning the skies of the southern Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans somewhat leaden (and reducing the violence of storms in the area, and providing refuge for shipwrecked sailors) these devices do no harm whatsoever. Only five hundred of them are needed, and they can be switched off overnight if that were necessary.

Bard of Ely
Tony, please see the update I have added. I can admit I was wrong about a lot of it and felt I should make a public statement here explaining my reasoning. Thank you, because in the course of this I have understood how I was ignoring facts or overriding them due to my belief in the basic chemtrail conspiracy and my mistrust in scientists and official authorities. I would think that has happened with many of the other people who haven’t given you a chance or really read all you have had to say!

JazzRoc
“This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!” – Steve, that was a gracious (and almost unique!) apology which temporarily took my breath away. It is unusual for a “chemtrail” adherent to back down over anything. The only previous instance I can recall was – you – about a year ago. Yet, after that, you soon got into full swing again. So may we look at your phrase “a lot that I have been believing” and pick it apart a little? Can you now be believing that yes, there ARE poisons being dispensed, but they DON’T make white lines in the sky? Perhaps you now believe that no, they CAN’T be passenger planes, but they CAN be military KC105 tankers which are NOT laying visible trails? Invisible trails of WHAT might these be? Do you know how many KC105s there are – compared with the number required to carry out Edward Teller’s proposal? (ET – the original “Strangelove”!) NOT ENOUGH. Not enough tankers, not enough fuel, not enough barium.
Did you notice the satellite image of the whole of the North Atlantic Ocean in my blog that showed contrails as a grid of white lines concentrated ONLY over the middle of the ocean (where there was a huge north-south cold front!) with virtually no contrails over the land anywhere? If they were “spraying”, WHY would that occur? Did you see the “chemtrailer” version of a (on-off) “gap” in a contrail that was patently photoshopped into existence? Did you see the Sciechimiche video claiming to be the inside of a “spraying” aircraft which was “fabricated” from a photo of the interior of the Boeing 777 Long Range Prototype, which at the time contained interconnected barrels of water (in place of the seating) for directly testing the consequences of varying its centre of gravity?
I hope you COMPLETELY understand that there is NOT A SINGLE WORD OF TRUTH in ANY PART of the “chemtrail conspiracy”, and that some of the “claimants” are NOT DELUDED but actively FRAUDULENT. And “Geo-engineering” is not necessarily a dirty word…
Steve, I looked at your stop press, and it warmed my heart to see it. But it is an afterword in your Hub entitled “Are Chemtrails Real, and Contrails a Con?”, so I suppose the end results of this episode may still be deleterious, and a distraction from solving our true difficulties. I hope you will soon return to your laudable activities in the fields and woods of permaculture, wildlife, wild foods, conservation and Nature.

Bard of Ely
I will have a look at that video now! I do not claim to know how many planes the miltary has or where they hold them. I have seen the “inside a tanker” video you refer to and am well aware of the reality of that episode having been caught up in it personally online. I read a lot of the conspiracy authors and watch their lectures and the majority have included chemtrails as a reality and I find it hard to believe they are all knowingly lying, especially when I know that much of the other material covered is true. So I have to conclude they blind themselves as I have done. I have taken down my STOP CHEMTRAILS banners at Myspace because they show trails which you have convinced me are water vapour and until anyone can prove anything to the contrary I am as of now not promoting CTs as a reality. In fact when I have the time I will do a rewrite of what I have posted above here probably and stick it on Myspace. JazzRoc was he right? Yes, but nobody wanted to know!
I would much prefer to stick to things I do know about such as nature but in this case I got involved in it by seeing skies that are not as they used to be, which you have convinced me is caused by far more water being in them, and I assume this was the case when this happened before as you have detailed regarding past occurrences of persistent contrails.

JazzRoc
I notice that you’ll find on the YouTube co-display page an article by Alex Jones concerning the Sun’s role in Global Warming, where he suggests this coming Solar Cycle will show the Sun’s brightness increasing by 50%. In the 4.6 billion years (and 200 million solar cycles) since the Sun and its solar system formed, the Sun has increased its brightness by (I think) 27%. This means that the mean brightness increase of the Sun per cycle is 0.000000135%. The Sun is not yet middle-aged in terms of its own life, and is expected to burn for another 10 billion years before it dies. It is proceeding smoothly, and showing just its usual behaviour – a tiny increase every cycle. It strains credibility to believe that THIS Solar cycle brightness increase is going to be 370 BILLION times greater…
So how can Alex Jones say this? Perhaps he isn’t a scientist, but I’ve just sat down with a calculator and rattled out the figures – and you can do it too. What sort of lunacy is this? Why does it happen these days? Where is the ACTION here? What’s the REAL agenda?

Bard of Ely
I saw that video. Alex says all sorts – a lot of it right and some of it wrong and as you say he is not a scientist which he admits! He is a good showman and a very successful alternative broadcaster and many people say all sorts of things about him good and bad. I have listened to him a lot over the years but not so much in recent months although I subscribe to his blog at Myspace, and I find myself knowing AJ supporters and others who are against him.
To answer your question why this is happening – there is the conspiracy theory that would tell you it is all part of the Illuminati Great Work of Ages plan and has been designed to be like this or maybe it’s just because a vast number of people want answers and are fed up with lies from politicians, governments, world leaders, religions, scientists, global manufacturers, and the media. Alex is one of many who provide answers so he has a ready audience. People have distrust in traditional leaders and ‘experts’ and want new ones – it’s been going this way for a long time and I would personally say a lot started in the sixties when people began looking for alternative ways and wanted to change the system. It’s when I got involved.

fant 230

unknown
first off i would like to say i am new to this subject and at present not swayed either way, but i have read both sides to this argument and the continuing argument between bard and jazzroc, jazzroc by your standards i am extremely uneducated, but reading the posts here by both you and bard i am dissapointed in the way in which such an educated person argues their point, firstly it seems you pick on a sentence and then discredit it as much as possible by insulting everything it implies, it’s like reading a list of insults rather than a fair and equal argument, and no doubt you will do the same to this comment picking up on bad spelling, grammar and such saying how uneducated i am, but i am and i can admit this, also you claim to be a scientist yet your views are firmly set with no room for change, does science not show us now that the impossible is possible? does history not show us that science get’s it wrong time and time again? you are everything that is wrong with science today! science is an ever-changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression, and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe unfairly, but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change, for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything! and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in our own delusions.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for your thought, unknown! Perhaps JazzRoc will reply to your points?

JazzRoc
“does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?” NO. The impossible has been shown forever to be, and to have been, impossible. The Universe is consistent to the laws we have uncovered to as far as we can see, which is to a distance of thirteen and a half billion light years. There are NO other rules operating other than the ones we have uncovered – other than the rules we HAVEN’T uncovered!
“does history not show us that science gets it wrong time and time again?” YES. And THEN it gets it RIGHT. Consider how you and your mother avoided death when you were born, and all the other aspects of your material existence which “wrong” science has got “right”, and contrived to make your life OTHER than “nasty, brutish, and short”! Consider the means by which you argue here. Consider that once I worked in a team to develop this means.
“you are everything that is wrong with science today!” Well, thanks. Had I known this, perhaps I would have have NOT designed the world’s first ethernet transceiver. Perhaps PEOPLE are what’s wrong with science. Perhaps you are a victim (already) of a dumbing-down process I saw begun in the early seventies. Perhaps you are also a victim of fiscal policy (namely the total surrender of “democratic” western governments to private banking interests). But you are NO victim of mine! I have been in opposition to every wicked and deleterious policy change I’ve seen occur since I’ve ever been able to vote. That’s almost EVERY CHANGE THAT HAS BEEN MADE. I opposed entry into the Common Market (Britain should be strong and self-sufficient and independent), I opposed the Conservative Selsdon Committee (that dumbed YOU down!), I opposed the destruction of the Engineering, Shipbuilding, Mining and Machine Tool Industries, I opposed the Falklands War, I opposed the destruction of the Coal Mines, I opposed the idea that Britain could be a Fiscal Service for the World (ridiculous!), I opposed the rapid exploitation of North Sea Gas (further destroying the mining industry), I opposed the feeding of meat to cows, I opposed the idea that GM pollinating plants merely needed a 20-yard separation (!), and I opposed entry into the Iraqi war. Then I LEFT THE COUNTRY.

I had become VERY FED UP of being ROBBED (in ALL uses of that term) CONTINUALLY over a forty-year period. Even now I am close to destitute, as employment is hard to find for a sixty-four-year-old Welshman without money or transport in a Spanish fishing resort village. But it is warm here, and I am close to my grandson, and my needs are few. I shall soon create a solar home and permaculture food garden and achieve true self-sufficiency.
“science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression” Can’t disagree with you here! Of course, it is necessary to point out that to be “open-minded” requires that one is EDUCATED in the first place. Otherwise one merely “opens” an EMPTY mind…
“and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly” Completely.
“but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change” Well, I’m a qualified engineer and industrial designer and practise those disciplines. Now I compose music. The idea of a “different point of view” is QUITE POPULAR with engineers, designers, musicians! It helps CREATE NEW THINGS.
“for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything!” Science isn’t a democratic debate. There is ONLY a CORRECT side and an INCORRECT side. Life hasn’t taught you ANYTHING, it seems…
“and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in our own delusions” No, you HOLD ONE. I’d like to point out that if I’m arguing with an American it really makes no difference – the same evil and wicked policies are maintained by both Britain and the States. If the cap fits…

unknown
ok, well you have indeed made some valid points against what i have said to you, and claiming that you are everything wrong with science today was unfair and i apologize for that comment, but to say i have been dumbed down is also a bit much, and when i talk of the impossible being possible one reference comes to mind and that is of quantum physics, but i will say thankyou for your reply and your comments and will discuss this more in due course. oh and just to clear that last part up,i am definatly not an american,i would like to say that my original comment was posted mainly for the way in which you come across, it is a little offensive in all honesty, and it bugged me, in reality i was not having ago at your abilities as a human being but more for the way that you put your point across, and somewhere in there i shall admit that i got a litte lost and sidetracked from the point i was getting at.

JazzRoc
I accept your apology. Quantum physics does at first seem as though the impossible may be possible, but there is a fantastic SCALE effect at work here. The scale of quantum physics is so small and local (and quick!) that the distances involved in organic molecules eg., from ONE peptide bond to the NEXT in a DNA molecule, become equivalent to the distances between stars. All the “magic” is taking place in a “storm” (which is not even of microscopic size!) which on the whole averages out as – “non-magic” – nothing. I am a Star Trek fan, and believe that “beam me up Scotty” (etc.) has tended to convince non-scientists that these types of events may some day be within the reach of scientists. These programmes are FANTASIES. Their “science” (in almost all cases!) is poor. One isn’t looking at a possible future – at all. It is quite wrong to mix up a blend of fear of the US govt with fanciful ideas with radio stations (HAARP), barium stearate powders (“chemtrails”), “nanotechnology”, “mindcontrol”, aliens, and what-have-you, instead of finding the real solutions to lung and skin diseases. The solutions will be found using Science, not Fantasy. In the meanwhile “chemtrails” are a harmful distraction, an additional problem.

steve
hey i’m from new zealand and they spray us here too. i know that they are definitely spraying something because you can’t turn a contrail on and off. we also see up to 4 planes spraying at once, they do a run across the city then turn around and spray again. i notice on days when they spray that all my flatmates seem to be more agitated and depressed. it seems to affect the wind. because our city usually is really windy and gets SE and N prevailing winds. but over the last 3 years the winds are coming from weird directions and it is hardly ever windy anymorei have also seen the rainbows in the fake clouds too i heard that there is a secret haarp installation here too

Bard of Ely
Steve, please have a look at contrailscience and JazzRoc’s blogs – the links are here to provide info. But basically you just seeing ice crystals forming the trails and fake cloud. They do not turn them on or off but are moving from one layer of the sky to another and if there is no water vapor present to crystallise as ice then you see no trail and it looks as if it’s turned off.
The rainbow effects are caused again by ice crystals – there are no forms of dust or particles metallic or otherwise that will cause this. It is likely that people are depressed and agitated by seeing the trails because if what they have heard about them as a danger and because it is something they have not seen until recently. However, there is nothing to fear apart from fear itself and the reason we see all these trails is because the sky has far more water in it and there are far far more planes up there
.

lynette
I am emailing you to inform you of a strike that is being organized on July 4th 2008 against the New World Order and the spraying of chemicals in our skies. I am hoping to reach as far as I can with the message that there are good people out there who really want to change things. We all need to support each other and create a the kind of world it should be. Please spread the word of change and promote this website after all this affects us all. Please visit www.freewebs.com/changetheworldforever for more info. We need to change what is happening to our world and to our skies, for the sake of ourselves and for generations to come.

MD FREE
H2O is a greenhouse gas and that cannot combat global warming. I didn’t read jazzroc’s comments and can’t help wonder if he flies the planes. Pollution does block sunlight from traveling deep into earth but I think there are better ways than pollution to stop global warming WTF!

Bard of Ely
I’m not sure who said water was combatting global warming so don’t really understand the point you are making but I am sure there are far too many planes seeing as they are causing the problem we are seeing and whilst I no longer believe that the trails and artifical clouds are toxic it is still not right at all to have all these tons of ice crystals blotting out the blue skies and sunlight! And many places could desperately use the water down here! Thanks for your feedback, MD!

MD FREE
The point I was making is frost and mist are h2o, not chemtrails. I am not saying that I believe in one side or the other on this, if you read the blog on myspace I was talking about, it was more detailed. I do think the theory falls in line with other theories that becoming more factual. At least, it is more believable than reptilian theories!

Bard of Ely
Thanks for explaining! Well, the strange thing is I am no longer a chemtrail believer after several years but I am a reptilian believer, although not so sure about the shapeshifting! I have actually just written over 3,000 words on why I believed in chemtrails and why I no longer do for another project. There was logical thought gone into both my belief and how I finally lost that belief but the most interesting part of it all for me was that when I was a chemtrail-believer I was blocking out seeing some things, which I knew. This was not logical thought but the control over my analytical mind by the belief system I had.

MD FREE
I am going to have to read your conversation with jazzroc when I have more time. I have some chemistry knowledge and would be happy to look at this as logically as possible.

Bard of Ely
MD, thanks for what you posted but for the video it is just like all the others of which I have seen hundreds. They all are claiming that the trails are chemtrails and I no longer accept that so there is nothing to fear from them for myself or others who do not believe. As for finding cures for the illnesses said to be caused by chemtrails this is an impossibility if the chemtrails do not exist and are merely ice which simply messes the sky up. The illnesses and symptoms are caused by many other things and obviously need to be cured but personally I see no point blaming the trails and I no longer do so.
BTW as an example, I have had chronic sinus problems that I believed to be caused by chemtrails. I no longer believe this and have concluded that the problem is caused by my deviated septum, which two doctors said was the reason. I have found a cure – salt water dropped down my nasal passages.

MD FREE
No big deal about the deleted posts, I didn’t feel comfortable putting the article up there. i would’ve sent a link but the profile I found it on is set to private so I do not think I could send a link. It was a lot longer of a article but I am not intent on changing your mind. The fascinating part I thought, was the evolving DNA. I started classes this week so I am becoming too busy for this subject. If I come across any proof you haven’t heard of I will send you a myspace message with a link. Lots of things can cause asthma and sinus problems, nearby trains using diesel, car pollution, airports, pollen. See you on another topic friend!

Bard of Ely
Yes, lots of things present in the modern world can and do produce symptoms like sinus problems and asthma that get blamed on chemtrails! Yes, there are all manner of theories about DNA – depends who you agree with really! Michael Tsarion says we all have alien DNA mixed with human and that is the root cause of evil in the world. It’s a good explanation. Michael doesn’t think there are any saviours for the world condition but ourselves and I am inclined to agree with him on both counts. This is our nightmare and we have to deal with it!

toxicpolarbear
hey. i hear planes at the same time every morning. I live in gwealod y garth in cardiff. we have had some really heavy downpours but i gues the rain is everywhere anyway. I have uncontrollable burny sneezing fits random spates & ive never had hayfever. Could be dust but i think i would be sneezing all of the time if was. my sleep patterns change and i feel different when i drink tap water.

Bard of Ely
I know Gwaelod y Garth very well – a beautiful place! No, rain at all here – in fact a drought! I hope the tap water doesn’t have fluoride in it like it does in many places now – a much worse threat than chemtrails, which I don’t any more believe exist! Sneezing is caused by many things and there are countless things which people are allergic to with cats, house dust mites and many types of pollen being a few. In many places people are exposed to pollens like oil seed rape that is a fairly new crop that is being cultivated on a wide scale.

Sean
If these don’t exist how come there is this chemtrail tracking site I go to that tells you when they will be here and when they won’t be here and it’s dead on 90% of the time? How would this guy know if they did not exist? I mean I think they do exist and they are up to something up there, what it is I have no clue but I have heard both sides of the argument and use common sense when I look up and I know these are different from the contrails I see on some days. Some days I see contrais and then these all over the sky. Jazzroc and his arguments are not going to sway me from these things or make it like they don’t exist, like the devil they exist and they don’t want you to know it. I am staying believing and studying these and reading about them. Some say they know some who fly and say they do spray these things and think it is for our good, some say it’s just chaff and the military does spray it to jam radar, check those out in youtube. It has been on the news in Cali as well and weather channels if you look for it, so people do know and are up on these things, not enough people but some know. BTW as for the tracking site, I would put it up but some idiot will try to get it taken down if they are with the GOVT. or looking to keep these a wrap, I think I will pass but thats NO LIE. He tells when they will be spraying, and bottom line it happens.

Bard of Ely
Please post the tracking site here! As far as I am concerened it is simple to predict when trials will occur if you know flight paths. The problem with the subject is that chemtrail believers call persistent contrails “chemtrails” and non-believers call them contrails. And it is a belief system because I am a past believer and it was very hard for JazzRoc to get me to see the logic of his arguments! I am now a non-believer. I could give you an example of predicting trails: at around 10am on Sundays in winter but not in summer a plane goes across where I live and it leaves a long lasting trail that I used to call a chemtrail. Pics I have posted of this believers call a chemtrail, as I did. But now if I see the same trail and accept it as a persistent contrail of ice crystals. Conditions have changed and we are now seeing persistent trails which we have not been used to seeing and we have been led by those propagting the chemtrail belief to call them chemtrails but they are simply long lasting trails of ice crystals I now believe.

bozena
JazzRoc is a well known DISINFORMIST. He magically appears at any discussion of atmospheric manipulation discussion and thwarts it with local fallacy pseudo-science, mostly released as countermeasures to chemtrail discussion. BEWARE!!
Bard of Ely, i still can’t believe how easily you’ve been pushed over.

Bard of Ely
As I have explained before JazzRoc is none of the things people claim he is! He is someone I know personally and have met many times and actually worked on music with as well as having enjoyed walks around the island here. But people post other opinions about him when they know nothing about him apart from the fact that he does not believe in chemtrails.
If you read what I have written you will find that my belief in the subject was already on shaky grounds when I found that the air in South Wales under “chemtrailed” skies was cleaner than usual not badly polluted. At the time I couldn’t understand this as I had been led to believe by chemtrailers that the air was being poisoned. Clearly it was not the case. I have not seen any evidence for chemtrails as a reality apart from all the videos, photos, reports etc by chemtrail believers and what I used to think were chemtrails.

I have concluded that the chemtrail belief system is a disinformation campaign itself and a very successful one.

Tremblor3.05L

Robert

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ROBERT – ROCKETAGENCY – RUSHFAN’S MASSIVE FRAUD – SAME POSTS – SCALAR (“WEAPONS”) – SCALE – SCATTERING

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

ROBERT 

toronto

lol, well you’re nuts but at least you concede that there’s something up there that shouldn’t be. we get lots of these over Toronto as well. 100+ chemicals including berium…very poisonous. ,,.also weather maniuplation.”
“you concede” – WATER. Not exactly harmful.
“shouldn’t be” – SHOULD BE, if you wish to travel.
“we get lots as well” – You have a LARGE AIRPORT.
“100+ chemicals” – have been picked up at GROUND LEVEL. The WORLD is a DUSTY place, and you have COUNTLESS MILLIONS of BACTERIA ALL OVER YOU.
“berium” – BARIUM – “very poisonous” – so is CALCIUM (OXIDE) if you swallow it. Yet your BONES and TEETH are made of it.
“weather manipulation” – The induction of rainfall needs SILVER iodide crystals. The STATES have FLOGGED their FAMILY SILVER.
Weather has NEVER been manipulated.
And so your reply becomes MEANINGLESS DRIVEL. 

ROCKETAGENCY 

rocket-trail

Actually, I believe your data. It contained a few missing pieces of info I had been hoping someone could articulate for a while now.
The most profound fallacies I’ve noticed are that:
1) If you can see a trail, it MUST be dangerous.
2) If you can’t see a trail, no danger exists.
Ha. Not so very funny.
I hope you read up more on DILUTION FACTORS. In general, apart from molecules of  plutonium or other radioactive element isotopes, EVERYTHING ELSE sprayed from a height of seven miles would land the day after tomorrow, at least two hundred miles away, and DILUTED BEYOND ANY DANGER – unless you believe in that branch of alternative medicine, er, whatsitsname… homeopathic…
And I hope you watched George Carlin too…
I agree with him: you’re all pussies that have NO IDEA of the dangers that existed all around you throughout existence – before you were born – creeping up on you as you’re standing outside (looking up!) – and raining down on the pussies that will still be in existence after you’re dead.
You don’t want to be a pussy? Then LEARN about Evolution, LEARN about your body’s biochemistry, Learn about pathogens and poisons, LEARN about the atmosphere, LEARN about the REAL dangers of EM radiation from CELLPHONES and city centres, LEARN about the Federal Reserve Bank, LEARN how to be self-sufficient, LEARN how to build an autonomous house, LEARN about PERMACULTURE and Ecology.
Don’t waste your time with Chemtrailer-trash bunkum… 

RUSHFAN’S MASSIVE FRAUD

Myself
Look up the Boeing 777 Long Range prototype in Airliners dot net. You’ll find this picture without the photoshopping.
The barrels are for varying the plane’s centre of gravity – a nifty thing to do when you’re prototype-testing.
Sciechimiche are a crowd of fraudsters and YOU are the dupe.
“Chemtrails” are a form of mind-terrorism practised by people who don’t understand anything to do with science and engineering.
The damage they do is worse than Chicken Little.
You are a throwback.

Rushfan
There are plenty of US patents related to many of the topics brought to light by those you call ‘fraudsters’. I have spent many hours reviewing numerous aerosol methods and devices.
One thing that is fact, is the baldfaced lies our government will tell the public to justify any agenda. So given that lies can come from both sides, truth usually falls somewhere in the middle and usually in plain sight. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
After absolutely stumping my Earth Science professor one day a few years ago (who happens to be a career military weatherman), I’ll keep on watching.
What’s most interesting is why anyone would bother wasting time on people who are supposedly discussing something that is not accurate. One would think there are better things to do with your time than spending it following such dialogue.

Myself
There are plenty of patents about everything.
I am an anarchist with a natural distaste of governments.
“Truth” only falls at the centre by default in such debates – and, as such, ISN’T truth.
There’s no harm in “keeping on watching” only if you keep your scientific understanding up to snuff.
You have failed to do so – and so you do harm. Without sufficient understanding you will fail to interpret events accurately, and then proceed inexorably to jump to wrong conclusions.
Reminding harmful members of our society of the harm they are committing seems quite a reasonable thing to do to me. It’s not the only thing I do with my time.

Rushfan
To an extent, you seem to have some sense of concern. Since we as a public have been lied to on numerous occasions, putting faith into the corrupt is not always wise. Those entrusted to keep the faith are many times part of the problem.
In an ideal scenario, one would prefer to be able to not have to be concerned. Does one sit back and do nothing or do something? Regardless of 100% accuracy or ability to provide certain proof, the act of, in and of itself, generating any awareness at all is to everyone’s benefit.
I know that when presented with conditions he could not explain, my “career military weatherman” professor was stumped and would not comment further. One problem with “Science” is that some in Science are just as corrupt. Controversy is just as plentiful and placing faith is getting more and more difficult. I would surely hope that nothing is going on to our atmosphere and that there would be nothing to be concerned about.
One thing is also certain, all actions are not being conducted for your and my best interests. To think that whatever is going on is on the up and up all the time is not a good approach…

Myself
The same could be said of you, re concern. You may be not completely cynical yourself.
The “visual evidence” you so much believe in has led you astray.
Were it not for science would you KNOW that the Sun does NOT go round the Earth? Be honest – you wouldn’t. You would INTERPRET what you see as the Sun (a SMALLER body) passing over the sky to set on the opposite compass axis.
In a similar manner you INTERPRET the occasional trail which expands HUGELY as a HUMAN act, when it is in fact a NATURAL occurrence.
When passing through cold (-40) humid (more than100% saturated) stratospheric air (a completely different STABLE and LAYERED section of Earth’s atmosphere) the trail ice can SEED the NUCLEATION of the excess water in the layer by a factor of up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES.
It is therefore not impossible for a trans-continental jumbo flight to create a trail containing EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS of ICE.
You will appreciate that this trail WILL cover the sky with a stripe of suspended ice crystals which may be up to 10 kilometres wide by 2 kilometres deep. With stratospheric interlayer SHEAR this may get WIDER STILL.
There are hundreds of atmospheric research papers to choose from, but I’ll quote you only one:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
READ IT. This research was done using the finest minds and scientific techniques.
With this fact NOTHING REMAINS OF YOUR THEORY. Without the visual misperception you have made, you are left merely with hatred of the extant power structure – which is my position also.
If you go down the route that such reports are mere constructs of the PTB, then you have to assume that ALL information has been back-edited, and that would have to include ALL relevant books in ALL libraries (and the ones on my shelf).
Sorry, me laddie, but that won’t wash…
Seeing as we SHARE a dislike of “authority” (I have been an anarchist since before you were born) I will now tell you that MISINFORMATION (which is what you seem to wish to disseminate) is NO SERVICE AT ALL to the rest of us. We’re trying to WIN a battle that you’re trying to LOSE.
Far from myself being a “USEFUL IDIOT”, it is YOURSELF that is a USELESS one…

Rushfan
Once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered, may have been implemented and may even be in some form of advanced stages.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening. Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda. I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.

Myself
once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered” – You, I, and most everyone else has considered it. Yet few of us are sufficiently mathematically-inclined and equipped with hard facts about the Earth to do this. Those that do know that the Earth’s a large place and Man’s technological activities aren’t detectable within its atmosphere.
may have been implemented and ” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
may even be in some form of advanced stages.” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.” – Even while agreeing with you that these events did take place, that doesn’t allow me to suppose that things aren’t different today. They are different today.
Many intervening events have taken place and everyone these days is web-aware. There was no web then.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening.” – That would be true if it were true. However I didn’t present you with “statistics”. I presented you with EVIDENCE proving the NON-EXISTENCE of CHEMTRAILS.
Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.” – I provided EVIDENCE. You misinterpretation of that is your problem.
There ARE two worthwhile areas of geo-engineering, one involving salt-spray trimarans and the other fertilising the mid-ocean sea surfaces.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda.” – It’s a pity you seem to want to join in with this. If they can do it, you can do it, is that it?
I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.” – Then you are apparently in your ideal state.

Rushfan
Once again, I would have enjoyed something that would remove any doubt about such possibilities. Nothing mentioned lays any basis for having any belief that such operations are not going on or have been going on. There is no basis to have faith in those that would or would not even be involved.It would be interesting as to why you can claim that such things are not possible unless you knew for certain that every possible source was in fact not doing these things. While your information base may be great, I fail to see anything that would cause support.
On another note, what is your take on the article published in the Open Chemical and Physics Journal of April 2009 regarding dust samples. I would surely like to see that their findings are inaccurate but no-one has countered with any significant results to the contrary
.

Myself
The trails witnessed which persist when a jet plane flies through a supersaturated stratosphere ( 17% of Earth’s stratosphere is in this condition) are composed of ICE – as I have already told you.
There are 87,000 daily overflights of the US. Only the variability of the persistent jet streams determines where supersaturated conditions exist in the seven stratospheric circulatory cell systems which the Earth possesses.
You might suppose that nearly a million tons of aviation kerosine combusted to add just over a million tons of water vapor/ice might alter the stratosphere significantly locally, but measurements have shown less than a percentage change whenever they have been measured. This may cause hazy conditions – but they are local and temporary. And HARMLESS. Persistent trail ice is PURER THAN TAPWATER!
Metals and other materials cannot be passed through jet engines without being visible in the trail gap.They AREN’T, so aircraft jet engines are NOT the route by which you can claim “spraying” to be taking place.
If you knew ANY science, you would know that passing finely-divided metals through a flame is a means of determining which element they are – for each element has a different flame color. It’s known as “Flame Testing”. Every colored firework you have ever seen should remind you of this. BARIUM is used to color fireworks GREEN.
Metals which undergo VIOLENT HIGH SPEED COLLISION reach PLASMATIC temperatures. They FLASH!
If you collide iron and aluminum at high speeds (half a million tons falling from a thousand feet) the violence vaporizes some the metal into a hot spray of microspherules – just like thermite combustion.
All the materials necessary were there in the WTC – iron from the structure, aluminum from the plane, sulfur from the gypsum wall-boarding.
I draw your attention to this vid of a Phantom colliding with a very solid concrete block. You’ll see the plasmatic flash, and the fine dust (microspherical) which flies out radially from the point of contact. This dust (made from a dural/titanium airframe and two engines with very large, hard, heat-resistent alloy-steel shafts about ten feet long!) won’t contain much sulfur, but that’s the only difference.

Now get off your ass and stop buying things so easily. Science is a process which checks itself all the time, and if a dozen scientists say one thing, with a single dissenter, then the chances REALLY ARE that the twelve are correct, and the dissenter isn’t. If you want to be sure, then LEARN SOME SCIENCE.
The beauty of everything I’m telling you is that if you CHECK FOR YOURSELF in a book in some library I have never seen, or in a paper available on the internet via your own search process, you CAN quite independently confirm what I write here.
The fact that the US is run by a criminal syndicate in no way alters the physics of gas turbines in the atmosphere or high-energy collisions.
Get logical.

Well, he stopped responding. He answered none of my questions, followed none of my links.

These guys are so paranoid and deluded that they avoid Science in their desperate attempts to remain “uncontaminated” by the “powers-that-be”.

YouTube is supremely unconcerned with matters of truth, and many of the people I know who, like me, find this delusional and divisive behavior to be appalling, have been banned from it when they overstep the mark (by posting too often, or by being complained of to YT). It also puts a 500-character limit on comments and has some ingenious software which prevents anyone from posting links, which makes it very difficult to challenge these deceitful videos, while making it very easy to produce them.

RECENT YOUTUBE COMMENTS ON

“CHEMTRAILS FROM THE INSIDE”

doobeedoo22
The interior photos show a pre-production aircraft, fitted with instrumentation for use during a flight testing programme.  The liquid containers that you see, fixed to the floor in the cabin, can be filled with water to simulate the weight of seats, passengers, cargo and luggage.  New aircraft must be tested at their all-up weight, but you don’t undertake trials of a new design with hundreds of people on board!   No chemtrails here.   Fnord.
 
kashpd
Fnord… And “Hail Eris !”

dustinwrye
That does not say Hazard Inside.  It says HAZMAT.   It means hazardous materials.  So you are partially right.   Inside the striped tape is a sign in sheet used to show who checked on or secured the material last.
Standard government stuff here.  It could be anything.  You are only speculating on the “spraying”, you can’t really tell what it is saying.
Same with the “Lock Care”.  If it had anything to do with safety it would be in the same place on every barrel.  The government standardizes everything.
 
eyeOOsee
Dustin I cannot believe what you wrote!  I have been photographing these goddamned billows of crap being srayed over my town for 10 fucking years and you want to argue over hazmat vs hazard!!??  Are you insane!!??  Look at the skies for god sake.  This is world wide.  Not EVERYTHING is necessarily going to be the way you expect it to be when we have all seen more than one type of plane spraying.  It is not JUST THE US GOVERNMENT here!  Watch “Aerosol Crimes” on google video.  What is really important?
 
dustinwrye
Fine, don’t believe what I wrote.  I said it was HAZMAT, that’s the same as Hazard in a way.  Don’t be stupid, the government is not “spraying” you with anything. Don’t believe everything you see on YouTube.  And if they are, it isn’t working.  I still know they are corrupt and after nothing but power.  Life expectancy is going up, so it must not be that bad for ya.  If it is something that kills certain people…  fine, the world population is getting out of hand.  Just hope I’m not the target.

 
eyeOOsee
Dustin, re-read what I wrote.  These have been falling on the ground x10yrs, I have been photographing longer than I have had a computer.  Life expectancy is goin down..how many 90 yr. olds do you know?  When I was in MY 20’s every family had 3 to 4.  Seriously take a look at “Aerosol Crimes” on google video by Clifford Carnicom.  It’s about 1hr.45min.  Great documentary, and a decade of material, incl. updates.  And “you” “are” the target. We all breathe the same air.  Have you seen what’s in these?
 
dustinwrye
Making it to 90 years old has never been the norm….NEVER.  The life expectancy is in the 60s, it continues to go up too.  As for families having less kids now, well I see that you are 50 some years old.  Some would say part of the baby boomer generation.  Yes, parents had more kids back then.  People built their lives around hard work and producing goods.  No longer is that the case, we are a consuming nation now, more kids are not needed to help around the house anymore.

eyeOOsee
Dustin, check your mail for response.

farmersc3500
The orginal photo dated May 25, 2005 can be found by googling airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton
Go to the first hit on google, it should be from airliners net and you can click and expand or save image as.  And see every thing you see on this video close up. Including the sign, barrels windows and computers.  You can also click on the “cn 3378/504” so you can find 80 more photos of the same airplane including photos of both the inside and outside for ID purposes.  Case Closed.

laurasmales
I’ve just looked it up on google, saved the image and the writing doesn’t seem to be on there anymore?

farmersc350
Laurasmales, you are correct, the original photo dated May 25, 2005 does not have the writing “Sprayer” “Hazard inside” and “Lock care” on it.  Which just goes to show that the video maker (tankerenemy) photoshopped the picture in order to deceive people into believing in chemtrails.  It is obvious that the maker of this video is knowingly and willing putting out disinformation in order to promote chemtrail beliefs.  For a video of the same plane including the tanks, pilots and engineers just google 777-200LR Worldliner videos.  Go to the first hit play the video “777-200LR prepares for first flight”.  In short, people like tankerenemy could not promote his false chemtrail beliefs without misinformation/disinformation. His photo shopped picture is a fine example of how far he will go to mislead people.

laurasmales
If it is photoshopped then they aren’t helping to spread the word about chemtrails, instead they’re inviting criticism.

Now that’s interesting. Although it’s obviously a fraud, this only “invites criticism”!

iggy6
It doesn’t matter how much proof you show, there are govt. employees whose job it is to seek out all of these videos and articles and use any tactic to discredit the facts.  Contrails form at 29,000 feet, yet in desert areas aerosols have been sprayed at less than 10,000 feet and lingered for hours. No matter what you say they will deny.  So that is why I find it funny.  They get all bent when someone uses their same tactics back at them.

KamarHarris
Ya because google can be trusted if the government was corrupt in that way.

rodman332
Chemtrails are fucking real!

farmersc3500
Rodman, even tankerenemy knows this is not at “chemplane”, if he really thought it was a “chemplane” then he would not have photoshop the photos in this video.  To see the orginal photo that predates tankerenemys photoshop version just google airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton.  Note the original photo does not have the words “sprayer” “hazard inside” “lock care” because that was added by tankerenemy after he copied the photo off airliners net.  What is real is that IS a photo of the ballast tanks that are used to change the CG (weight and balance) in the certification test for the Boeing 777-240LR serial number 33781/504. And that same airplane is now used in passenger service for PIA.   Also what is real, is tankerenemy is knowingly and willingly putting out disinformation in the form of this photoshopped photo.

glennwa11
Farmersc, that is the typical chemtrail activist tactic.  Deceive and lie.  Anything for ratings and views.

westwatford
Yeah, they were connected up through tubes which must spray out the back.  What ever it is, the goverment are doing something.

unusmultorumm
They are connected with tubes so they can flow the water from the back to the front of the aircraft.  They do this to determine the center of gravity limitations of this aircraft.

1enzeder
Could be part of the global eugenics program, or maybe its just liquid plant fertilizer the CIA are spraying on their opium crops.

a123a456a123a456a
Shut up you poisoned troll, the water and air is contaminating and mutating people into troll-like creatures , many people all over the country have gotten their hepa filtration systems tested, that’s how we know, and as for the military planes i have seen them with telescopes aliminum barrium trails, again buy an IQ air health pro, and forget about these military scumbags trying to kill you, at least while in your home.

GLOBALRAPTUREdotcom
My good friend Dr. Bender said another possibility is that after 2012 we will go through the galactic plane as it is called in science and our magnetic field will be affected.  Chemtrails can be filling us with a false metallic base so when there is less of a magnetic field they can throw on Haarp or something of the like and keep us under control, we know now that you can control a person by remote radio waves this is one possibility you can by a heavy metal detox to take once a month.
Holyshit can’t understand a word he said but i get it….
Chemtrails are a weather manipulation operation by the NEW WORLD ORDER using regular military people to carry out chemical spraying on civilian populations using low range bioweapons, also as a means to move moisture collect it and redistribute it as a weapon in other remote areas.  They tell the soldiers they are helping thwart global warming.   Soldiers do not question orders and this is a major flaw in military people, besides their willingness to receive bioweapons and they are told they are vac.

icke11234
Chemtrails – genocide!   Join petition on an investigation of chemtrails: thepetitionsite.com/7/investigate-persistent-contrails-aka-chemtrails

dimviesel
The chemicals (metals) in chemtrails work together with the haarp, once these chemicals are ingested for years it is much easier to control people’s thoughts, courage, fight or flight response and proper judgement.  Just look at how crazy ppl are acting these days?  There have always been lunatics in public but the types of acts of todays looney tunes are unprecidented and unusual.

carlosmante
Filios Puttana.

yohrdzayr
Simply scary!  Thanks for posting.

URAterrorist
Chemtrails Are: Persistent lines of chemical-infused aerosol spray dispersals from typically unmarked planes which are now seen in the sky all over the world. Unlike normal jet contrails formed from water vapor, chemtrails spread to form a thick blanket of cloud cover, held together by polymer fibers until they reach the ground, contaminating crops, water supplies and humans with radioactive soft metals and dessicated red blood cells which contain active human pathogens.

Ah. So “URAterrorist” is a sock-puppet of SERIOUS BULL, as the above is a word-for-word cut-and-paste of his!

KarakulBrigand
Chemtrails don’t exist? Watch this vid.  Experimental Biological Chemical Spraying(chemtrails?)

RyanKearns1985
Does anyone know how a cloud works?  It is condensed moisture.  As a jet flies, it produces exhaust.  Very hot exhaust.  This hot exhaust condenses as it is cooled by the upper atmosphere, creating a sort of artificial cloud.  If you believe in this chemtrail story, then you are a grade “A” follower, and an idiot.

TouchedProductions
Sorry to say it, but it’s public knowledge now.  It has nothing to do with conspiracies.  It’s weather modification, and it’s funded by the US State.  Please, before you start flaming me, at least google it.  I wish I was wrong.

iggy6
It is more than weather mod.  AbouttheSky.Com. Plus, read CFR’s own documents… cryptogon.com/?p=7709
Explain the nanotech biologicals containing dessicated blood cells, 24 viruses, anthrax, and many other nasties. Is that for the weather too?

TouchedProductions
I only preach what is proven, mate.   No offense, but unless I can prove it, I’m not going to push it.

CrudeDude
Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

URAterrorist
What is unbelievably dumb, is someone who thinks contrails and chemtrails are the same thing.
 Yes any idiot knows that contrails form at high altitudes and low temperatures.  Chemtrails however, form at ANY altitude and at ANY temperature.  There are 4 seasons where I live.  Chemtrails form in ALL of them.  I’ve only been watching this anomaly for 10 years now.  If they don’t spray all night, my morning BLUE sky turns completely WHITE EVERY afternoon.  This may be your memory of normal, but not mine!

He doesn’t know the stratosphere exists.

RyanKearns1985
The weather is usually “controlled” by salts, not chemical aerosols, as far as I know.  Anyone else know?

PParranoidd
The thing you’re talking about is called cloud seeding.

BlueSkiesWhiteLies
After many years of fighting the Global, Chemtrail Operation, I have found only ONE WEAPON that is effective against them. That is an Orgonite CloudBuster. This simple yet powerful device, breaks up and repels Chemtrails and it restores and maintains natural cloud and blue sky. You can learn to make one on U Tube but I bought mine ready made.  I have 12 work’n hard.  Now my neighborhood sky stays BLUE while surrounding areas stay WHITE! Buy Yours@CTbustersdotcom and SEE The Change In Your World!

I wouldn’t call the above a white lie…

iggy6
Please read cryptogonDOTcom/?p=7709
From the CFR’s own documents…
“1. Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere
2. Add more clouds in the lower part of the atmosphere
3. Place various kinds of reflecting objects in space either near the earth or at a stable location between the earth and the sun.
4. Change large portions of the planets land cover from things that are dark such as trees to things that are light such as open snowcover or grasses.”
So KILL TREES?

CrudeDude
Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

gulesh01
Ok I need to mention something…  I saw this on another video and someone responded saying: What we are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying human beings they train in plains that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.  The weight barrels and over abundance of electrical equipment stocked head to toe in there are there for pilot training. I dont know whats true…

gliderwickid
Those tanks are used in test aircraft for centre of gravity adjustments.   Test pilots need to fly the aircraft on the extremes of what’s possible so as to keep “normal” pilots within the safety limit.  And rather than to risk people or have to carry around with lead bricks they use these large water tanks and shift the water around through the piping to shift the centre of gravity for testing.  The electronics are to record flight parameters.

RyanKearns1985
You’re a bad ass.  Finally a voice of reason.  I thought for sure the illuminati, the reptilian overlords, morgellons or Orgonite was responsible.  About three weeks ago I stumbled upon chemtrails and I haven’t stopped researching yet.  I just keep getting deeper and deeper into paranoid, delusional, craziness.

gulesh01
Now wait up a sec….  Like what the other guy says even if this video is nonsense it doesn’t rule anything out…  btw I have been researching morgellons for about a year.  I first discovered it and spent 2 weeks straight looking into it.  In that time I’ve read every single website that aims to disprove and discredit the “condition” as well as all the sites that try to prove it.  After weeks of first studying it I have no choice but to conclude for now that this disease is real…

gulesh01
Check the CDC site bro they been studying Morgellons for 3 years and they STILL haven’t said a word about their findings.  I must ask… It takes 3+years for them to tell us that these fibers are hair’s/fuz? See for yourself – they have NO suggestion – stumped.   The biggest website dedicated to disproving morg (odd?) is a site called Morgellons Watch ran by 2-3 people who create/debate evidence.  Ever since CDC started they disabled their comments section as it was always filled with angry morg sufferers.

Revolt300
Don’t listen to explanations from anyone.   trails should not be in the sky.   thats it.   this video means nothing.   what we see in the sky DOES mean something.  demand answers and documentation.

gliderwickid
I’m not saying that there is nothing.  I’m just answering gulesh question.  Why should nobody listen to a correct answer?  You yourself are demanding answers but you’re not listening to them.  Bit weird don’t you think?

CrudeDude
Orgonite counters the harmful effects of chemtrails. Simply place a small piece of orgonite between the layers of the foil in your hat.

CrudeDude
Revolt300 said “don’t listen to explanations from anyone…”  Especially if they are coherent, logical statements made by professional people who are more intelligent, and know more about the subject than you.  Only listen to statements made by people who are just as delusional as you are.

oltomee
If you listen to some corrupted scientist (more intelligent than you, know more about the subject etc but he’s a corrupted nwo agent) who is covering the spraying operation you’d feel more informed?  Sometimes you have to think by yourself.   There are weird white planes that spray something on us all around the world.  You don’t have to work at the Nasa to see that lol. Do we have to wait the day they spray blue or red shit to say “it is not normal”?

CrudeDude
oltomee, you poor delusional paranoid cretin, Chemtrails? You gotta be kidding! ROFLMAO at you clowns.

haycarambaaaisback
A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.

CrudeDude
haycarambaaaisback said ” A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.”
Yep.  You got me.  I’m “one of them”.  I’m one of the many intellegent people out here laughing at your ridiculous “chemtrail” videos.  And as far as “stupid” is concerned, I’d say that people who think airplanes are spraying chemicals on them to depopulate the earth are the truly stupid.  That’d include you, Sparkie.

xxxxxDIABLOxxx
if you can prove it right.. go on.   if you have proof it’s not true.. good.   if none of the above.. shut the fuck up and go fuck your mother until she’s dead.  if she’s dead, go dig her up and stick your tongue on her motherfuckin pussy.  you don’t know the truth, and you don’t know otherwise.  don’t play smart dick. hehehe…

gliderwickid
Now calm down.  I’m not some agent or scientist.  I’m training to become a commercial pilot which gives me a reasonable understanding about what happens with planes and contrails.  IF chemtrails were to be real i definitely don’t want anything to do with them.  But atm I am just not convinced by the evidence you guys are providing.  But i’ll check up there if i get a job 😉

julyboy66
allright

Ng7solja
the government can do what they want to human beings and do not have to tell us as long as what they’re doin is classified as testing.

SpriteCCA
So, Middle-eastern musicians are behind ChemTrails?   Whatszup with that?   Geeze…  Peace, Sprite.

Revolt300
pay no attention to these videos.  they spray our skies around the world.   no permission and without mentioning it.  the sky is fine the way it is.  nothing more is needed to be said.   especially in the states.   is america not a democracy?

TheMorpheusbrasil
USA is now a Fascist Dictatorship.  Don’t you know?  Educate yourself man!  George Bush ends the Democracy all around the world man.  Go research, Television is the main tool to make people fool, in order to implement the World Slavery!

TheJimbob111
We are a Constitutional Republic last time I checked, though it would not appear to be in todays events.

WTU208
see the first line written into the Stone Henge sized Georgia Guidestones…..and then tell me these are not real…
 
speeder757
I know why don’t the anti-chemtrailists hire a fucking big hot air balloon and go up into these clouds and breathe as deep as they could, just to prove us wrong.

MrSuntour
speeder757, better yet, chemtrailers should hire someone to go up and do some testing on these persistent contrails that they claim are “chemtrails”.   Chemtrailers make the claims, they’re the ones who have to “prove” that there’s a “clandestine spraying operation”.

speeder757
Give me proof they aren’t chemtrails, it’s just words so far no proof from contrailist either, trust me I don’t make decisions without the facts.  convince me I`ll be the first to agree they are contrails but no one so far has, you’d be the first.

MrSuntour
I think you’re having a problem grasping the simple logic of our situation.  It’s impossible to prove something does not exist, it’s nonsense to even suggest it.  Therefore, the onus is on the Chemtrail believers to prove that Chemtrails DO exist.
Fact – Contrails exist and act the same way they have acted for more than 50 years, youtube search “newsreel battle of the bulge” for tons of persisting and grid contrails from the 1940’s.
Now prove that persistent contrails today are different.
“Newsreel: Battle of the Bulge” at 6:08 to be exact, tons of persisting and crossing contrails from 1945.

speeder757
I would know the difference if I see vapours from the engines and I could live with that it is contrails.  No one should take the word of something unless they research it and all possible avenues are exhausted untill you can come to a competent decision on your own, even then question yourself if it’s correct information you’re getting.  Now if I see spray nozzles there would be no question as to chemtrails, thats why observing with a telescope might be the only way.

MrSabre11
i’ve seen these news reels but i’ve also seen a discovery channel documentry on chemical warfare and saw shots of planes dumping clouds of chemicals and testing the results on animals.. this was during the 30’s – 50’s…   Also weather mods need to be taken into consideration thats also been a viable technology since the 30’s…  In the UK we flooded a town testing it way back then…

chibet
What’s a Chemtrail? Seems Interesting.

peterson553
Has anyone else noticed a ceasing of chemtrails in their area? Out here in LA, on the westside, there have been no chemtrails for over two weeks.  They went from very heavy application for a long time, then nothing…

banana268
In Vancouver BC they have been getting progressively worse.  I have never seen them so bad.  I see them every day.

Firegiant3
Man just watching these movies and reading your comments causes the loss of brain cells how could any of you survive this long in life with the IQ of a Fern?

LOL ! 🙂

CrudeDude
Your comment is an insult to ferns worldwide.  Even a plant has more inherent intelligence than the average chemtard.

elucidative
You got to be a complete retard if you can’t see these “contrails” don’t fade away into the humidity because they are aerosols and make false cirrus clouds and fog the ground with chemicals.  Like they don’t spray people, tell that to the agent orange victims.

Firegiant3
WOW, you are far off there…  my father was in an Agent orange area and VA taking care of our troops…   now they admitted what they did.  It’s way different in a war zone.  It doesn’t make what they did right, but they owned up to it…  our govt’s not perfect and in many cases yes, screwed up, but it’s not dropping chem on us in everyday situations.  Go see a shrink and get fixed.  If not, then move out of this country if you don’t trust them…  get your head whacked off in Iraq, or somewhere similar, and realize what you had.

11seretter11
i would say the same to u, realise what u have, for soon it will all be gone and something new will come, and the time for us is coming fast, it all has begun for u, so sticking around in the US for the next years is maybe not the best place to be.
-Obama – building a civilian army
-Fluoridation of ur drinking water (to slow u all down)
-house market crashed
-dollar will collapse soon
-us/canada/mexico become one (=EU)
-FEMA camps
u don’t think there are chemtrails in the rest of the world?

BingoTheClowno666
huh? is this a language?

pffbh
eugenics is alive and well . They love soft kill weapons that can’t be traced and make you sick so they can sell you medicine to cover the symptoms and you end up in debt and they take it all in the end when you die…  I love the flag wavers like firegiant…  took many years for the govt to admit to wrongdoing over agent orange.  learn some more history.  Forced sterilizations were performed on american women from 1909 till 1945 for women thought to be unfit mothers.

pffbh
Syphilis was given to blacks as an experiment.  aids is man-made.  azt was given to aids victims and it sped up the process of dying. where the hell did morgellons come from?  The victims think it’s chemtrails.  What about the bees dying en masse? No bees, no food.  GMO foods affect the dna in your gut.  It’s frickin’ endless and the fda does nothing!  go have some aspartame…  enjoy!  It’s all coming to a head.  I’m a vet by the way 74-78…  Now our troops are exposed to depleted Uranium.  look it up…

pffbh
yes, flag wavers, we mean nothing.  we are cannon fodder for the big boys playing war games.  Its all about the money.  Always has been…  here’s a heads-up for all who are reading my rant. The dollar will tank between nov 5th and march of 2010 according to predictive linguistics which has a 75% accuracy rating.  Better have a 6 month supply of food, at least.  get a couple 50lb bags of rice and beans.  better own silver or gold depending on what you can afford. Hyperinflation is coming soon.  good luck!

Firegiant3
see his profile for my rebuttal.

beachcomber2008
This is the Boeing 777 LR prototype.  Look it up in airliners. net.  The notice has been photoshopped in.  THIS IS AN IN-YOUR-FACE LIE.

DYONESLEMOSRAMOS
jihad now, jihad now, jihad now.

speeder757
Ive seen those newsreels too.  Yes they are compelling, but newsreels can be doctored.  Hell, I’ve seen a truck turn into a robot in a movie.  That looked real.

GregOrca
You guys – if you had ever bothered to do legitimate research you would know these are normal ballast tanks for simulating the weight of passengers in new aircraft prototypes.  All prototype passenger airliners use them.  You can plainly see them on film of the very first 747 in 1969 long before 1996!
Not a shitty doctored photo stolen off the net with “sprayer”‘ and “Hazard” added using photoshop, but the real thing.
at 6:41


at 1:05


Also watch this video at 5:51 mins in

Such old films show how farcical the claims of Chemtards are, and show their almost total ignorance of even the most basic aspects of aviation and science and meteorology.

Stev888
The favourite concept of the Chemtard is the “persistent contrail” normally prefixed somewhere with the thought-stopping “scientifically proven.”

GregOrca
No, the favourite concept of the chemtard is “just look up at the sky”, the same mindless principle that made people think the sun revolved around the earth for millenia.  Chemtards don’t understand science.  They don’t understand anything much which is why they believe in the hoax and have no idea what their eyes are seeing.

sodasoap
I’m a pilot and this are not contrail, it’s more than vapour than simple minds may think.  Not normal for sure.

stopthechem
i know they are not normal.. because i cough up blood and have difficulty breathing about 3 hours after they pass by … sick bastards.

AntiLieGuy
The chemtrails are hide our 10th planet Nibiru. This is also the reason the govt is now classifying all asteroid events.  this is the warning for the war of armageddon which will see Russia, China and the SCO destroy America on 10-10-09.
News here: (3w) . docstoc . com/docs/6519605/WarNews
btw – gregorca is a paid govt liar. dont argue with the liars.

Said with such conviction too.  But the date has passed!  Are we at war?

CrudeDude
AntiLieGuy—1st degree Chemtard.

sleathx
I agree with you, he is a liar.  I don’t know about government liar, but he certainly could be a disinformant. Not agreeing with chemtrails, but his arguments against chemtrails are “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  That’s not an argument, nor is it a debatable fact, it is a series of opinions.  People tend to take opinions as facts – so he is a decent liar.  But not good enough.

tAcco9911
You cannot go into a debate with chemtards, because there is no foundation for debate.  You won’t debate with someone who tells you earth is a disk and not a globe.  So it is perfectly reasonable to say (and, therefore, not discuss with them) “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  It may be an opinion, but it’s a well-founded one.

vaccineshurtbabies
“chemtards” = chemtrail deniers
There is an obvious difference between chemtrails and contrails.  Contrails fade, chemtrails spread out into smoke-like formations and often create chembows.  Contrails don’t.

tAcco9911
Ah, vaccineshurtbabies…  interesting.  Please explain why that makes you sure that longer lasting and smoke-like formations that last behind an airplane are chemtrails and not contrails! 
The only thing that is obvious is that there is different behavior in contrails.  Or what about clouds?  They look also like smoke, can last very long and influence the weather and there are may different types of them. Uh, I am scared of them!
😀

tAcco9911
You know that the atmosphere is not a monolithic formation?  It has different layers, with different conditions, airplanes are flying at different altitudes, there are so much variables that can influence the “behavior” of a cloud or contrail and if you consider them, the different behavior of contrails from time to time can be explained by more rational means than a conspiracy theory about governments polluting or sky on purpose!

tAcco9911
Sorry, but that’s the problem with chemtards: their minds seem to be so simplistic that they cannot imagine that the world is far more complex than their minds and everything that looks strange must be made up by an evil world conspiracy.  I do not want to insult anyone, but please, if you do not have the brains, shut the f*!? up and deal with and talk about topics that you understand…

poopindaturd
and how is this going to hide a planet… seriously…

CrudeDude
Correct Title; “CHEMTARDS FROM THE INSIDE”

TheFireShow
Looks like you guys are being exposed, hey DUDE? You can try to deceive all the morons you like, but some of us know too much. Perhaps name-calling makes you out to be highly intelligent, and beyond the ENLIGHTED ONE.  However, try as you may, you will only persuade the weak minded clones.  We who track air pressure, humidity, moisture, and temps know the games that the world militaries, and new world order governments play.  PERHAPS YOU WORK FOR THEM.

sodasoap
You are right I cough blood as well!
 
aces9876
more people need to become aware of chemtrails, its so obvious.

mypigmisery
There is no money for we need, oh money is so tight, gotta stop this funding, gotta take more funds for humanitarian good.  No funds going here, less going there.  But I’ll be damned they got LOTSA LOTSA money for this poison!  Can U imagine the money we could have for the good of others – instead of using it on this?

aroneous
HAHAHA Where are the thousands of pilots, crews, air traffic controllers, airport employees, chemical producers, loaders, plane owners, repairmen, and hundreds of other jobs?  Basically at least a million people worldwide would have to be in on this with none of them breaking silence for it to be true.  Yes there are chemicals that come out of the back of airplanes, from fuel combustion.  Contrails appear differently in the sky depending on the atmosphere.  Sorry to ruin your little fantasy story.

vaccineshurtbabies
“Where are the thousands of pilots, crews…”
Interesting point.  The fact remains that chemtrails are real.  I have seen quite a few myself and they’re obviously not contrails.

WOW. Another telling point slides right off the tinfoil hat.

voidows
Thanks for sharing.  Altho we never know that this plane was never used for spraying on people. We now have some good proof they try to hide it.  Why else would they rebuild an commercial plane that is far more expensive than an industrial plane. With no windows on the side for example.  Thanks for sharing.

I recognize the style here.  This point I have seen made in the original Italian.  Voidows is an originator of this fraud.

gliderwickid
It was never used for spraying people.  It’s a test aircraft.  Those tanks are ballast tanks used for Centre of Gravity shifting so different loads can be simulated without putting people at risk.  Do some research before you blindly believe every Youtube video.

voidows
Talk about brainwash.  Of course they use it for lots of different stuff.  But thinking it’s only for the GOOD of mankind is really believing everything so-called officials say and not searching any further than that.  I did a lot of research already and am still busy with it.  Ignoring and saying it’s not true ain’t research dude.

gliderwickid
Dude…  the picture of the inside of the aircraft is taken from Airliners.net.  It’s a prototype Boeing 777-200LR.  This actual picture is from test aircraft WD001.  The 2 signs were photoshopped in.  Says something about the trustworthiness of your fellow researchers.

voidows
OMG I know that.  I know they r used for more stuff.  And i know there r people that make scams.  But just because they give you a reason why they use it.  Doesn’t mean the other reasons r impossible or faulty.  There’s more than enough proof around.  It’s not just this movie.  This movie proves it can be done and it is done.  What is this with you people?
 100 people talk about some unknown.  And 1 person says it’s not true and you all believe that single person.  What a brainwash.
Show me the official site then were these pictures were taken from and edited by an editor.  
Since you know for sure what you say you must have proof to back it up.  Or did YOU only watch youtube movies and listen to your teachers at school.  And watch wikipedia?  Show me the pictures without the altering of it.  Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.  It is all seamlessy fitting together. Pls give link because i don’t believe you.

A fine bluff!
 
tAcco9911
“you must have proof to back it up”  Where are your proofs?  “Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.”  And you are an expert in image manipulation?  The one who is believing the wrong people, is you!  You listen to people who have no real evidence, just weird speculation.  They accuse people of polluting our sky without either evidence or proof.  The defendant is considered innocent until proven otherwise…   And you have no proof!
 
gliderwickid
I most certainly have proof.  The original was taken by William Appleton.  Go to airliners.net.  Search for William Appleton in the top righthand corner of the screen.  And then it’s picture 8 on the first page of results.  You’ll have to do it this way because you can’t post links in youtube comments, unfortunately.

voidows
LoL..  Just stay in your BOX of thinking mate.  It doesn’t matter.  Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  And yes i have a master in digital editing for your information.  Why do you answer a question with an question?  I ask for the real pictures and proof of your words you said. And you ask me that question again?

tAcco9911
I do not ask about proofs for pictures.  I asked for proofs for chemtrails!  These pictures and fabricated videos do not prove anything.  It is OK to question things, but it is not OK to neglect the obvious answers and create a world conspiracy from the most illogical and unlikely explanations.  This is … sorry, I cannot find another word for it… silly.  You are the one in the BOX, because you only think about chemtrails as being real!”  “Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  “OK, bring a shipload of valid unquestionable proofs that are scientifically grounded or based on eye-witnesses (and just seeing a plane creating a contrail is not evidence for chemtrails).  Explain how the logistics for chemtrails work, explain the motivation for “spraying” and explain the physics and chemistry.  The question here is not about faked images, so maybe you are discussing the wrong subject regarding your profession.

voidows
thanks gliderwick i will look into it.   Tacco you simply keep saying the same stuff as i asked you.  This is my last entry since we won’t come to an agreement like this and it only gets worse.  I believe something and you believe something.  Let’s respect each other’s choices okay.   Thanks for responding Tacco and Glider.  Without debate we will never get smarter.  Thanks a lot.

So tacco i was right the picture is not altered in any way.  I looked at the picture what spiderwick told. It’s precisely the same one.  Do you see any bees for example around the last years.  They pollinate the plants.  If this stops the plants will go extinct.  That’s a link to the chemtrails. And Germany has openly admitted that they were testing chemicals to alter the weather for war practice. There is much more to see and read then only a few youtube movies. And pls open your mind tacco.

Voidows slid smoothly out of that one with a successful misdirection.

gliderwickid
Germany has openly admitted to using Chaff.  The translation from German to English is misleading.  There is no mention whatsoever about chemtrails in that one.  I must admit that there is something happening with the bees.  But that can have many other reasons than chemtrails alone.  These chemtrail movies are not good research material.  There are people out there deliberately altering pictures and videos to prove their point.  And i must add that the picture was altered.  The black writing above and below the piece of paper on the wall was added.  Where he claims it says Sprayer and Hazard inside.  And the label on one of the tanks which he highlighted says Load Bank in the original picture.

wayneob1
Google this: Leaked DEFRA Papers from the U.K. Confirm Chemtrails Usage Real!

Tressco
…misleading title…  …defend your credibility…  Interesting info, though!

oasisthunder
And to think, you American fluoride-drinking people are so dumbed-down already that INSTEAD of complaining & doing something about this chemtrail spraying that occurs all over the USA…  you simply watch baseball and do absolutely NOTHING!   WAKE UP PEOPLE!  Cut the crapola on irrelevant stupidity and do something, ANYTHING to stop this!  That goes for you goofy Canucks 2.

tgambill
Nazi Germany used fluoride in the camps to make prisoners docile. Yes my fellow Americans are heading for a major wake up call that will dwarf 911, since the government planned 911 anyway.

gulesh01
Christ Mr Canada you really need to tighten your weed control laws.  Keep your nutter ass on the toilet.  I seen this before.  What you are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying humans they train in craft that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.

WellSightedGentleman
you’re right!  its all about weed control laws!   believe it or not!

Telepcanin
Why do they do that, do they spray some viruses or what?

diffusedlight
It’s the tin foil hat brigade!  This is a plane used for testing WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION ON A PASSENGER JET.  They pump water around the tanks to simulate different passenger seating plans to make sure the plane is safe to fly.  It’s funny how desperate illiterate hippies have to believe in something “bigger” than them (like an evil government conspiracy at every turn) -when 99.99999% of people already know where the photos and videos they stole ORIGINALLY came from.  It’s the tin foil hat brigade!

pajas2222
LOL, just lol!

doobedoo22
When an a/c is new, you need to test its performance with a weight equivalent to a full passenger load.  So they mount small tanks in place of each seat, and pump them full of water – which stays on board for the whole flight.  What we’re shown here is a prototype or pre-production a/c.  If you wanted to transport or spray chemicals, you’d use fewer, larger tanks – more efficient, obviously.

aheartattack1
Wow, the follies of developing a program such as photoshop…  damn you GATES!!!
p.s. i mean the placards not the tanks.

chrispyt77
the tanks are for testing of weight distribution. this dodgy photoshop job is excellent disinfo.   it proves nothing, just that some people like stirring up trouble and creating easily debunked disinfo.  but this dodgy little picture doesn’t change the fact that contrails used to dissipate, and now they create banks of wispy white ‘clouds’.  hold onto your intellect, let go of your conditioned simplistic ideas about big issues in the world.  Something is amiss in the sky.

bikersrule07
I’m sorry but this could be any old cargo plane…   how come these people who are supposed to have taken these pics, never ever get the tail number?  Hmm, or they never ever show more photos of the plane, this is bull shit.

durizap
Just stay in your conformity zone of ignorance, and stay cheerfull…  Or wake up to reality!
 
bikersrule07
Why?  Who is to say you’re right?  Who says you’re wrong and I’m right or vice versa?  What you said to me durizap, the same goes for you.

durizap
Difference is, that I do not say this is truth or BS.  I put a neutral stand until I know much more.  You said he was wrong, I said you should wake up and get out of your conformity zone (in a sarcastic way tho).  I say this, to make you consider the possibilities, not just to blindly believe videos like this.  Sorry if I offended you, I only tried to provoke you a tiny bit to make you think for yourself.

bikersrule07
okay.. how am i ignorant? how am i being comfortable?… why? because i don’t fall for what you may believe? in or what somone else believes in, there is no logic there.. you don’t even know me to judge me like that.. i don’t think you even know what i believe in.

VelosoFernando
Spraying Day in Portugal – Tuesday 25th August 2009 – Lots of grids in the Sky.

lukeslandspeeder
ya so much the sky has faded and isn’t blue anymore.  it’s a white faded pale blue haze everyday now.  1970″s-1980″s people know how different it is now including the summer evenings, the winds don’t blow anymore, the sun is different color also.  then compared to now now is terrible.  summer evening in 1989 were WOW.  they felt so good outside.  gone now.

TheMorpheusbrasil
Yes, I make your words as mine, here in BRAZIL we suffered huge attacks since may, now we have 4 days without chemtrails, but the skies ARE WHITE NOW, with strong sun we can see perfectly the light white fog all the day, and at morning’s dawn the skies, once black-to-blue, are now WHITE TO LIGHT-BLUE-GRAY!  OMG!  (just send my report from Brazil to world)

bulltexan1
Trymetylaluminum-radar jamming medium see ::: qc0TWVtozio&feature=related  Also can (in theory) used to curb “global warming” by dispersing in UPPER ionisphere, to reflect sunlight…  away from mother earth…

gliderwickid
And Jet aircraft are supposed to put these particles into the ionosphere?  Do you even know how high the Ionosphere is?  You need a space shuttle to get there!  You guys absolutely don’t know what you’re talking about.

Breakhoven
muther fuckers!
 
rocnsoc2007
New World Order?

moirbindy
Oh?  BS that’s kegs of Beer not chemicals lmao!
 
Adideva01
Today on my way to work there were 10ths of these ******* chemtrails all over the sky.  And by the way these types of demoniac events are taking place in other countries…  As mentioned in the Vedas in the current Kali-yuga goverment/rulers are demons disguised…  “Oh Supreme Personality of Godhead; Please destroy all demoniac forces of the Earth.”  Planet Earth needs new Mngmt.  Era of Enlightenment coming…

dconrad000
Go to my channel and see a recent, extremely hard hitting interview on the absolute fraud and danger of vaccines — and about a simple tool to viralize the truth about vaccines. The more people that know the truth, the harder it will be to force these vaccines on those of us that would rather put our trust in God, eating right, our own immune systems, natural remedies, faith & prayer — rather than on Big Pharma and their veritable witches brews.

beachcomber2008
I see this concatenation of lies is still up and carrying out its socially-malicious slanders.  What a vile and ignorant world we find ourselves in.

OK Rushfan, counter these statements, ignoring the fact that you unashamedly persist in publishing this FAKE.  All aircraft trails are definitely contrails.  Burning kerosine makes an equal amount of water.  The plane is in the stratosphere which is stable and clear.  The stratosphere can hold in supersaturation (when very clean) an excess of water as vapor.  This excess can boost the density of the trail by up to 10,000 times.  So 10,000 times as much ICE as the engines make by burning kerosine may be visible to you.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS.

All aircraft trails are definitely not “chemtrails”.  The gap between engine and trail evidences the invisible exhaust vapors and gases.  Metals don’t make invisible vapors – in fact they’re used in fireworks PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY MAKE BRIGHT COLORED FLAMES.  So there are no metals in the exhaust.  So there is NEITHER aluminum NOR barium present in the TRAIL.  ALL organic materials burn in a jet flame at 2000 degrees to produce that GAP, for carbon dioxide (invisible) and steam (invisible) is what they will make.  No metals.  No organics.  Just fuel and air.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY NOT “CHEMTRAILS”.

edgeguy99
What?  Since when can water vapor from a few jets make a cloudy day?  Since when Einstein?  Let me answer for my ignorant friend.  Since never!  You need to change your misinformation strategy because it’s already painfully clear that someone is spraying stuff into our skies.  Might I suggest saying the stuff is harmless and running with that BS line?  Then, when we are all sick, you can come up with another excuse like “a Virus, not our fault”.
 
beachcomber2008
Since whenever a powered aeroplane flies through ANY stratospheric layer which is SUPERSATURATED, which will happen for 17 flights in every 100 on average.  This has been known ever since the 1000-bomber raids over Germany in 1943.  100s of research papers on this have been written since.  The fact that you have never bothered to RESEARCH THE SCIENCE makes you a jackass, doesn’t it?  Persisting in your lies without bothering to check what I say will make you worse than just a slanderous liar.

edgeguy99
“Since whenever a powered aeroplane flies through ANY stratospheric layer which is SUPERSATURATED, which will happen for 17 flights in every 100 on average.”  And then disappear a mile or two behind the jet.  Not turn into clouds!  And I never slandered anyone.  We all see chemtrails in the sky.  What is your game here?  There is no question that jets are spraying stuff in the air.  What science am I supposed to research?  What lies am I telling?  Look up!  There it is!  Research done!

beachcomber2008
“No-brainers” are for people without brains.  Are you one of those?  Aircraft ice trails PERSIST as a physical consequence of atmospheric humidity.  Do you understand what “persist” means?  What it DOESN’T MEAN is “fade away”!  The world is more complex than you think.  People work harder than you appear to believe.  Calling my resume of known and established atmospheric science “misinformation strategy” IS slanderous.  I have PM’d you.  Read my letter through.

edgeguy99
“Aircraft ice trails PERSIST as a physical consequence of atmospheric humidity.  Do you understand what “persist” means? What it DOESN’T MEAN is “fade away”!  It doesn’t make clouds that block out the sun.  It doesn’t make an overcast day.  We already know about contrails and because of this controversy, we know a lot about contrails.  We are talking about chemtrails or the intentional spraying of a substance in the atmosphere by jet planes.  There is nothing slanderous about anything I said.

beachcomber2008
“We are talking about chemtrails or the intentional spraying of a substance in the atmosphere by jet planes.”  And I have just given you a logical and conclusive proof that your statements are lies, baseless, and without foundation.  Your failure to refute these statements has already demonstrated to everyone that you are indeed a slanderous liar.

edgeguy99
Again with the “slander”.  You’re in a cult.  It sounds like your from the LRH cult but you could be from another.  No matter, your choice of language gives you away.  There are 3 of you here that use the same exact language.  It’s the problem with cults.  After you’re broken down and they rebuild you – it’s always from the same book.  That makes you easy to spot.  Which group do you guys belong to?  Nothing personal, we all breathe the same air.  Are you aware that your life was stolen from you?

beachcomber2008
So you DUCK acknowledging the FRAUD of this video and you DODGE acknowledging the LOGIC of why trails are definitely contrails and why they are definitely NOT “chemtrails”, and wish to change the subject, PROVING beyond all doubt that you ARE indeed a slanderous liar.
You will not conduct an honest debate, will you?  You prefer further slander and ad hominems.  Another irresponsible liar OWNED…  The difference between us is that I am calling you what you obviously are, by your own actions.

edgeguy99
You really like to point the finger.  I lost count of all the crimes you accused me of.  Chemtrails are real and their purpose is a secret.  Call me whatever makes you happy.  Very odd chemical and biological matter are in some chemtrails.  They have found traces of radioactive material and aluminum powder.  And I already told you guys to stop using the word “slander” because It’s a tell that your a cult member and robotically you still use the word.  Your so programmed.  They stole your life.

beachcomber2008
“point finger”- that’s YOU.  Hypocrite.  “lost count” – learn to count.  “Chemtrail real” – No. Your delusion is.  “Call me” – CHEMTARD.  “in some CTs” – Contrails have been tested. ICE.  “traces of r’active mat’l and alum’m” – The US is radioactive. Aluminum is in SOIL.  “stop using slander” – I’ll USE it while you DO it.  “They stole your life” – I’m an atheist and anarchist.  NO bugger owns me. I live in the sun close to family and friends.  You steal TRUTH, even from yourself.  There’ll be consequences.

edgeguy99
Someone is spraying chemicals into our atmosphere and doing so on a global level!  If you want to express your anger, do so at the people poisoning us.  I know from your own choice of words that you’re a NWO cult member.  You’re a Luciferian.  Your statement “I live in the sun” is code for basking in the light of Lucifer (the illuminated one).  This global chemtrail phenomenon is the work of Satanic cults working together to bring about “the New World Order”.  You’re an NWO cult worker ant.

TheAmericanThinkers
Hey edge guy.  i found evidence of Morgellons in the spray that lands on us Chemtrail believers, Checkout my video.  I bet you get it all over you too.

edgeguy99
That’s sperm and you know it.  Don’t belittle a serious subject with your homosexual nonsense.  Grow up already.  You’re too old for this.

TheAmericanThinkers
Hey, these tanks in planes must be a new thing right, because these trails are new and the tanks shouldn’t appear in old films like this which actually explain what they are:

edgeguy99
con·spir·a·cy  /k’n’sp’r’si/ [kuhn-spir-uh-see] noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
These people use the same language.  Accused of “Slander” from two different people who take the same position!  They’re reading from a book.  You people are so transparent.  You must be really low level cult members and youtube doesn’t even deserve a real handler.  But your making our case for us!  Are you two part of a conspiracy?

tastycrows
I am from the government, I come to “debunk” all “myths” about “chemtrails” because it matters to us.  People are finding out about our conspiracy!  They can’t know or the chems won’t work and we won’t be able to control your minds!  With alien technology kept secret in Area 51.

beachcomber2008
You are ignorant and from the Moon.  The Boeing 777 LR Prototype shown in the video has barrels of water in it to shift its centre of gravity in order to determine the flight envelope within which it may be flown.  Someone has photoshopped this picture from Airliners. net to put a “hazmat inside” notice on the cabin wall.  This is a conscious fraud and an absolute lie.   Everything each of you has written has been a lie, a falsehood, a SLANDER.  Everything I’ve written is true.  Too afraid to check?

edgeguy99
We are being chemtrailed by a cartel of satanic cults that have been behind the scene for centuries.  Modern science enables the NWO to affect mankind on a global scale.  They have no qualms about sacrificing us to their “enlightened one” and believe that they will be reincarnated back to their blood lines, preserving their fortunes and power.  So if they die with us, so be it.  Their minds are twisted by an indoctrination process that starts at infancy.  They are highly motivated robots.

beachcomber2008
“spraying chemicals on a global level” – not visible in satellite pics.
“people poisoning” – Your lies are POISON.
“your a NWO cult” – You’re an OWNED cunt.
“Your Luciferian” – You’re a slanderer – once more.
“Your statement “I live in the sun” – Is the TRUTH, for I live in the Canary Isles.  Today it has been HOT AND SUNNY.
All aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS and DEFINITELY NOT CONTRAILS
THIS VIDEO IS A PHOTOSHOPPED FRAUD, defended by a liar who is unable to counter my arguments, which are:
All aircraft trails are definitely contrails.  And this is why.  Burning kerosine makes an equal amount of water.  All long-distance planes cruise in the stratosphere which is stable and clear most all the time – except when it holds sometimes holds visible ice crystals in cirrus clouds.   The stratosphere can hold in supersaturation (only when very clean!) an excess of water as vapor.  This excess can boost the density of the trail by up to 10,000 times.  So 10,000 times as much ICE as the engines make by burning kerosine may be visible to you.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS.

All aircraft trails are definitely not “chemtrails”.  The gap between engine and trail evidences the invisible exhaust vapors and gases emitted by the engines.  Metals don’t make invisible vapors – in fact they’re used in fireworks PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY MAKE BRIGHT COLORED FLAMES.  So there are no metals of any kind in the exhaust.  So there is NEITHER aluminum NOR barium present in ANY TRAIL, because trails ALWAYS begin with a GAP.   ANY organic material WILL burn in a jet flame at 2000 degrees to produce that GAP, for carbon dioxide (invisible) and steam (invisible) is what they MUST make.  No metals.  No organics.  Just spent fuel and air.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY NOT “CHEMTRAILS”.
 
edgeguy99
Just like car exhaust on a cold day, steam dissipates.  If you see lingering smoke your engine has a problem.  Contrails are similar in that they dissipate.  If it lingers and spreads out then it’s not a contrail.  Jets are spraying chemicals into our atmosphere across the planet and your funny little explanations sound like a used car salesman explaining that the smoke coming out of the exhaust is just steam and not a blown head gasket.  But the truth is in the lingering smoke, not your bull.

TheAmericanThinkers
You are so full of shit AND stupid.  Watch the contrail instantly dissipate in this video, and the breath on a “cold” day. Wow, it doesn’t blow away – it instantly dissipates right?
And the contrail doesn’t drift all the way to the horizon, it instantly disappears…  just like your intellect did years ago.

So as Beachcomber correctly states, there is a slight difference between your idea of a cold day, and the typical conditions at airline cruise altitudes.  But to know that would actually require some education on your part which, sadly, is unlikely to ever happen.

edgeguy99
Watch them bury my post.

beachcomber2008
“Watch them bury” – You bury mine.
There’s just one of me…:)
“Just like car exhaust on a cold day” – MINUS FORTY is colder than “a cold day”. At the N and S Pole such exhausts PERSIST.
“If you see lingering smoke” – from seven miles beneath you cannot say that.
“If it lingers”? – Hundreds of science papers say ICE.
“Jets are spraying” – You are LYING.
“not your bull” – Thousands of scientists know better than you.  They also know how to use libraries, and debate properly.  They also don’t slander innocent people.

 

SAME POSTS 

youtube

“i have seen these same posts of yours on other chemtrail videos” – but obviously not responded to them.
“Frankly, I have my doubts about chemtrails myself” – because if you had, they’d be MORE than DOUBTS.
“How do you respond to Dr. Deagle’s Video response above?” – I didn’t like “sheeple” or “chemtrails” and a tripod would be NO HELP on a boat anyway. The aircraft above were either breaking from the troposphere into the stratosphere or hitting a humid stratospheric layer.
“There are also videos and still pictures of “chemtrails” that go in circles and is not an airshow” – an “airport holding pattern” or a military “keep station” are normal phenomena.
“Have you seen those?” – Yes. I was an air force brat and then an aeronautical engineer in past lives.
“I understand the onion theory” – NO YOU DON’T. It isn’t a THEORY, it is KNOWN ATMOSPHERIC PHYSICS.
“Do some fuels pollute more than others or is it only the onion theory that makes or breaks contrails?” – What MAKES a CONTRAIL is JET EXHAUST (STEAM and NITROGEN and CARBON DIOXIDE) AT 2000 deg C meeting COLD HUMID AIR at -40 to -80 deg C. The STEAM FREEZES TO A FINE “SMOKE” OF ICE CRYSTALS. HUMIDITY LEVELS determine whether or not those crystals SUBLIME back into water vapour, which is INVISIBLE. In SUPERSATURATED AIR the crystals ACCRETE MORE ICE AND GAIN WEIGHT AND FALL FASTER. In perfectly saturated air the crystals REMAIN AND SPREAD LIKE DIFFUSING SMOKE. In less-than-saturated air the crystals SLOWLY SUBLIME AND DISAPPEAR – to water vapor..
In VERY DRY AIR a trail may not become visible at all. 

SCALAR (“WEAPONS”)

tesla-1

“scalar weapons” – Hmm. Wiki pulls up nothing on that. Do you have a good ref?
* Since then I’ve discovered that “scalar weapons” are based on “imaginary number” field calculations deriving from Nicola Tesla’s work. He theorized that through them it was possible to capture FREE ENERGY. Have you seen any such energy in the past 100 years? Nor have I.
Now “imaginary number” calculation have been used in Quantum Theory to make some very successful predictions about the physical properties of particles. However, they have never been extended into the “real” non-quantum world with any success. If they were usable as weapons, they would have been used by now. Have they? – NO..
“other electromagnetic technologies” – “Electromagnetic” isn’t a buzzword. The light you see by IS EM radiation – we all live in a BATH of it, and WITHOUT IT we would DIE. The ONLY dangers from it are from focussed HIGH ENERGY beams – LIKE LASERS OR MICROWAVES. Unless you like getting sunburned on the beach and wish to risk contracting skin cancer.
“plasmatizing the atmosphere” – Now you’re talking HAARP. This can “warm up” a line-of-sight area in the IONOSPHERE some hundreds of square kilometres in area. The energy density is in the order of THREE MICROWATTS per square centimetre, which is LESS THAN A TEN-THOUSANDTH of the energy of SUNLIGHT. It may be able to EXCITE the ionosphere, but that would be because THERE’S VERY LITTLE MATERIAL IN THE IONOSPHERE – IT’S ALMOST OUTER SPACE. It could NEVER successfully warm up my cup of cold tea.

haarp

1) It’s line-of-sight (but cannot move!) which makes it a crummy weapon.
2) It is incapable of carrying out war policies – the worst it can do is damage radio communication.
3) It is energy-INEFFICIENT, demanding VAST energy input for a small output.
4) There are AT LEAST THREE OTHERS. The European one is TEN TIMES LARGER.
5) These places are RESEARCH ESTABLISHMENTS, and WILL get military funding on the off-chance that there’s some tactical information to be gained from knowledge of the ionosphere.

THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS SCALAR WEAPONS.

SCALE

atmosphereearth

A SENSE OF SCALE?
A typical passenger transport plane (medium haul) burns 7 tons of fuel and unloads 7 tons of ice and 4 tons of gaseous oxides (mostly carbon dioxide) into the tropopause, which is the boundary between the troposphere and the stratosphere.
The troposphere contains about 80% of the atmosphere and is the part of the atmosphere in which we live, and make weather observations. In this layer, average temperatures DECREASE WITH HEIGHT. This is known as adiabatic cooling, i.e. a change in temperature caused by a decrease in pressure. Even so, it is still more prone to vertical mixing by convective and turbulent transfer, than other parts of the atmosphere. These vertical motions and the abundance of water vapor make it the home of all important weather phenomena.
The troposphere’s thermal profile is largely the result of the heating of the Earth’s surface by incoming solar radiation. Heat is then transferred up through the troposphere by a combination of convective and turbulent transfer. This is in direct contrast with the stratosphere, where warming is the result of the direct absorption of solar radiation and INCREASES WITH HEIGHT. The stratosphere is STABLE, and doesn’t support convection at all.
The troposphere is around 16 km high at the equator, with the temperature at the tropopause around –80 °C. At the poles, the troposphere reaches a height of around 8 km, with the temperature of the tropopause around –40 °C in summer and –60 °C in winter.
The weight of the atmosphere is 5.25 petatonnes. The ANNUAL FUEL BURNT is 300 M tons.
One can see that, as a proportion of the weight of the atmosphere, the burnt fuel comprises FIVE MILLIONTHS OF A PER CENT.
It would take TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS at today’s rate of air travel, (and believe me THAT CANNOT happen – fossil fuel will be gone in twenty years!) to HALF-FILL our atmosphere with contrail gases (and that of course ignores the fact that physical and living processes would be doing that job anyway).

boklores

The Earth would easily absorb them in that time…   it’s BIG…

SCATTERING

“Jazzroc IS a spook its obvious” – look up my spooky music on my channel here.
“why hasnt any1 seen these chemtrails 5+ years ago” – they were 1st seen 88 years ago – I’ve seen them for 50 years. I called them contrails…because they ARE contrails…
“why are the planes unmarked” – the phenomenon is called “blue light scattering”. Read a PHYSICS book.

craft-trail

“why do they form overcast clouds” – because they ARE clouds – of ICE crystals – just as are Cirrus clouds.
“why is there proof that these trails contain heavy metals, anthrax, zinc & other nasties” – THERE IS NO PROOF AT ALL. I’ve been looking…
“the mainstream media won’t” – they don’t concern themselves with fools.

media

Science on Trails

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PAGE CONTENTS

SCIENCE ON TRAILS – SERIOUS – SHOULD – SKYWITNESS

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

SCIENCE (MAINSTREAM) ON TRAILS

contrails-a

USAF – “Contrails can remain visible for VERY LONG PERIODS OF TIME with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics.”
.
WIKI – “Observation and scientific analysis of contrails, and their duration, date back to at least 1953.”
.
EPA – contrails can last for hours and GROW IN SIZE by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The trails spread due to “air turbulence created by the passage of other aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating” – CSI (started by Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov)
.
John Day, meteorologist – “Contrail formation, depends on the relative humidity of the atmosphere – the ratio of what is to what could be at a particular temperature. When relative humidity is low, contrails dissipate within seconds. But when relative humidity is high, especially at the subzero temperatures of the upper atmosphere, the addition of even a tiny amount of water vapor acts as a catalyst. Under these conditions, contrails may linger and spread to cover the whole sky. …At length, Day extracted from his bookshelf a well-thumbed edition of Peterson’s Field Guide to Clouds and Weather, which he co-authored in 1991 (a good 10 years before chemtrails became widely discussed), turned to the section on contrails, and pointed to a photograph of a thick, white plume–a plume that looked for all the world like a chemtrail…” – http://wweek.com/flatfiles/News1982.html
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Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center *- “If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy’ … Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them. The cloud-forming contrails that conspiracy theorists find so ominous are perfectly natural” – http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20010307/3117139s.htm

.

* Dr. Minnis’s career is outlined in “Penrod”: https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/26-penrod/
.
NMSR Reports, Vol. 5, No. 12, December 1999 – “In summary, there is no evidence that these “chemtrails” are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions. That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time-to-time which release agents into the atmosphere. However, not one single picture that was presented as evidence indicates other than normal contrail formation.”

contrails-b

“The variation in presentation is explained by the tropospheric conditions and, to some extent, the positioning of aircraft engines. When the troposphere experiences a relatively stable, supersaturated condition (water vapor in excess of 100% humidity without condensation), then any disturbance that causes formation of ice crystals provides nucleation surfaces for the supersaturated moisture to condense upon. When a jet engine burns its fuel, the major byproduct is water vapor. When the exhaust passes over the rear stabilizer of an aircraft, the tips or ends of the stabilizer cause the exhaust to expand rapidly. When it does, the temperature decreases rapidly within a turbulent flow, and ice crystal formation is forced.

contrails-c

Generally, this makes it look as if the jet were spraying a cloud from the ends of the stabilizer. If the atmosphere is not at saturation, the contrail will not persist. The formed ice crystals will sublimate into the surrounding atmosphere. Hence, the appearance of a short, well formed vapor trail. If the water content is very low, then no discernible contrail will form at all. All the exhaust water will be absorbed by the atmosphere before there is time to form ice crystals.
.
If the atmospheric water content is not consistent with altitude (picture atmospheric “waves” of high water vapor content below a layer of low water vapor content much like waves on the ocean), then a jet will alternately pass through air that allows contrail formation and air that does not.
.
This gives the appearance of a dashed line if the plane is flying at, or near the perpendicular to the waves. If the atmosphere is highly supersaturated, then the formed ice crystals may act as nucleation centers for a continual spreading of the contrail. In other words, the contrail actually causes the supersaturated moisture to condense, spreading out from its original path. This causes the formation of a cirrostratus cloud structure, far in excess of what would occur from a simple contrail.”

contrails-d

One other phenomenon observed is the formation of contrails off wing surfaces along with the engine exhaust contrails. This can be caused when the air is highly supersaturated and the expansion of the air coming off of the wing surface is sufficient to cause ice crystallization. In this case, it appears that the whole plane is leaving a trail. This can often be observed by a passenger flying in a commercial airplane when entering cold, supersaturated air, particularly in the winter when close to a storm front.”
.
M. Kim Johnson, Physicist – “There were no pictures or evidence that indicated anything other than the above contrail formation phenomena. Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released. This type of story provides as much credence to “chemtrails” as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)”

h1

 SERIOUS

“those in power crimes against humanity” – Those in power normally commit their crimes against anyone who threatens them – closest first.

“google these” – Done that, have t-shirt.

“I get ill, I feel nauseous and get disoriented from them” – Illness, nausea and disorientation are more often the consequences of the western diet and stress levels.

“UFO’s hovering close proximity to trails” – are more likely to be PLASTIC BAGS borne aloft. You don’t see’em elsewhere because you’re ONLY looking for trails.

“Los Angeles defiantly purposeful” – Isn’t one of the LARGEST AIRPORTS IN THE WORLD (LAX) NEARBY?

“turn off/on same paths” – Contrails through layers of differing humidities.

“above and in clouds” – Where clouds are there is MORE WATER.

“clouds dissipate/spread out/NO RAIN” – Stratospheric clouds will go OVER THE HORIZON before they have fallen and warmed sufficiently to cause rain.

“NEVER disappear” – WELL, THEY DO DISAPPEAR, DON’T THEY?

“dissipate/fall to earth/city/fog” – SEA MIST, AUTO SMOG. I’VE BEEN THERE TOO.

“watching for years now” – YEAH, ME TOO.

“Other jets fly close in altitude and areas, with rapidly dissipating trails” – You are SEVEN MILES BENEATH and are UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH INVISIBLE STRATOSPHERIC LAYERS WITH DIFFERING HUMIDITIES FROM BENEATH.

“(other) trails spread into a web covering the entire sky from an operation” – ARE THE CONSEQUENCE OF NORMAL PASSENGER SHUTTLE ROUTES AT ANGLES TO EACH OTHER.

“Jets should not be making turns” – YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.

mac

 SHOULD

“Go ahead and post your theories” – this is known science as in http://www.contrailscience.com

“if you really are a government plant, go suck a chemtrail” – No. I’m an educated Welshman who despises charlatans.

“We would still think the world was flat if we listened to your method of reasoning” – so you’re plainly anti-science, then?

“Everyone SHOULD be questioning and exploring what’s going on (unless of course you have an agenda to obfuscate the truth!)” – then how come you haven’t managed to find a good science textbook?

“It’s counter productive to denounce people’s ideas on the basis that you (condescendingly I might add) believe they are unsure or uneducated” – There’s ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that you are EITHER uneducated OR evil. More likely uneducated, yet literate enough to indulge yourself in sophistry. There’s NOTHING productive about your pseudo-science.

“In my mind there has not yet been a convincing explanation as to what the Chemtrails are” – so you’re plainly anti-science, then?

“you are suggesting that it is evil to explore any theory unless you are sure it’s true” – I am suggesting that it is EVIL to PROMULGATE any theory unless you are SURE it’s true. Your MISDIRECTION?

“You are also implying that since you are sure of your explanation” – IT’S IN ANY SCIENCE TEXTBOOK COVERING THE ATMOSPHERE.

“everyone else’s is wrong and evil” – No, let’s be particular. YOURS is wrong and evil.

“That reasoning goes against the advancement of science and progress” – YOUR reasoning goes against the advancement of science and progress.

st

 

 SKYWITNESS (1)

 “what you’re made of” – Hi, SKYWITLESS, here you are arguing with me on someone else’s site. You can’t do that on your own site because YOU HAVE BLOCKED ME. You appear to be made of hypocrisy.

“trails” APPEAR TO BE “turned on and off” because THE PLANE FLIES “through layers of differing humidities” – Were you to attempt to PROPERLY UNDERSTAND THE ATMOSPHERE, you would soon see that that way the stratospheric layers slide over each other without intermixing GUARANTEES that they will posses DIFFERENT HUMIDITIES AND TEMPERATURES. A CLUE – sometimes the boundaries between layers ARE turbulent, and you will SEE CIRRUS APPEAR. Best done when sunning yourself on a beach.

“Show us one video that supports” – NO VIDEO! TRY READING!

“this claim of yours” – IS WELL-DOCUMENTED ESTABLISHED ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE, not “MY CLAIM”. It is UP TO YOU TO READ AND LEARN.

“NWO forces cannot control the free-will of people” – YOU ARE PRAYING.

“They are scared to death of the people becoming united in one mindset and purpose” – YOU ARE CHANTING.

“A people like this can defeat the NWO forces” – YOU ARE INTONING.

“This is why they send people like jazzroc to make noise and try and sow confusion” – AND NOW YOU ARE LYING.

“but just laugh at people like jazzroc and send them on their way” – Yes, tell others not to think. Liar. Hypocrite. Coward.

liar

 SKYWITNESS (2)

Skywitness
Hi ludosophist, as you know anyone can say anything about chemtrails; however video evidence of jets spraying chemtrails is much stronger than the words of anyone who says that chemtrails don’t exist. If you don’t believe that chemtrails are being sprayed, then how do you explain the numerous videos which show them being turned on and off? Do you also agree with Jazzroc’s explanation of how this happens? If you don’t want to call them chemtrails, then what do you want to call them?

ludosophist
They key here is rational weighing of evidence. The off/on thing is the only loose end Jazz didn’t tackle, or maybe I skipped that part accidentally.

(He did.)
If you could zoom in to a nozzle device, and actually show that, it would be evidence. Personally, considering the history of nasty shit the government has done (assasinations, depleted uranium, etc.) I don’t rule it out, but after learning more about relative humidity distribution I have to weight that they’re more likely contrails.
Skywitness
Perhaps one day I will be able to zoom in and capture the spray nozzles. At this time however, I have numerous videos showing jets turning the chemtrail spray on and off. Take a look at the videos and tell me if you still think the on/off action is a result of relative humidity distribution. If you still think that these are normal contrails can you find any reputable books that explain how contrails can do such a thing?

ludosophist
Here’s my rationale:
1) It’s plausible, there is an evil oligarchy with a lot of power that does stuff like this on smaller scales.
2) It maybe not be possible because you can’t burn barium into an aerosol.
3) P(god exists) < P(Chemtrails) < P(Bin Ladin Dead)
4) Argentina has few of these trails to speak of because there is little commercial airflight and no active airforce. Or, the NWO wants to reserve it for recreation. Either way, I’m moving there.
5) Hyper-inflation, food shortages.

jazzroc
Skywitness, if you just video the sun rising in the East, and setting in the West (assuming that “chemtrails” allow you to do this) you will do two NEAT things:
1) You will PROVE that the Sun goes round the Earth.
2) You will BURN out your camera chip, and give us ALL a break…
Skywitness
Your talk is cheap…Provide a science book that explains how a jet trail coming from a jet already in flight can go on and off. You said: “trails” APPEAR TO BE “turned on and off” because THE PLANE FLIES “through layers of differing humidities” – Were you to attempt to PROPERLY UNDERSTAND THE ATMOSPHERE, you would soon see that that way the stratospheric layers slide over each other without intermixing” Where’s the science book that backs up your claim? Put up or shut up.

JazzRoc
CHECK WIKI. STRATOSPHERE. There’s enough in that page for one to infer what I’ve told you. Work it out for yourself. I’ll be damned if I’ll lead you by the hand through the ONE PAGE after you have slandered me for six months. Perhaps your physics is too miserable to cope.. should I care? Alternatively: jazzroc.wordpress.com
Skywitness
CHECKMATE!!! The self-proclaimed 63 year old scientist, who when asked to provide a science book to back up his scientific claims about why a contrail appears to go on and off, can’t do it. The bottomline is you can’t do it because there is no science that backs up your bogus claim. Your defeated in the open field…Surrender your sword. Do the right thing now and tell ludosophist and the rest of the world why you have chosen to lie continously about the ongoing chemtrail spray program.

JazzRoc
Mr. sophisticated game-player, I like your vid so much that I bunged it in my video log. Thanks very much! I DID cover off/on, several times and rather thoroughly. I also uncovered a “chemtrailer” airbrushing one into existence… and it’s a popular picture quoted in several vids…
JazzRoc
AS WIKI (ON THE PAGE I INDICATED) SAYS: “It is stratified in temperature, with warmer layers higher up and cooler layers farther down, which makes the stratosphere dynamically stable”
THIS MEANS THAT THE STRATOSPHERE IS LAYERED (LIKE AN ONION) AND IS LARGELY UNAFFECTED BY THE TROPOSPHERE, WHICH IS WHAT I’VE ALWAYS MAINTAINED.
THAT PAGE GOES ON TO SAY: “horizontal mixing of gases components proceeds much more rapidly than vertical mixing” – WHICH IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT THE LAYERS WILL NATURALLY BE OF VARYING HUMIDITIES, BECAUSE THEY RECEIVE THEIR WATER FROM THEIR SIDES AND NOT FROM ABOVE OR BELOW. THEY ARE “HUMIDIFIED” MAINLY BY A PHENOMENON CALLED “QUASI-BIENNIAL OSCILLATION”. “The QBO induces a secondary circulation that is important for the global stratospheric transport of tracers such as ozone or water vapor”.
THIS QUASI-BIENNIAL OSCILLATION IS THE PRIMARY “PUMP” FOR THE MOVEMENT OF WATER VAPOR THROUGH THE STRATOSPHERE. THERE IS, OF COURSE, NOW, A SECONDARY SUPPLY OF WATER VAPOR FROM PASSENGER PLANES AS THEY EITHER HUMIDIFY IT – OR MAKE PERSISTENT CONTRAILS.
“bottomline is you can’t do it” WHOOPS “because there is no science that backs up your bogus claim” AND “You’re defeated in the open field…Surrender your sword.” AND “you have chosen to lie continously about the ongoing chemtrail spray program” ARE THUS THE WORDS OF A STUPID SLANDEROUS IDLE LAYABOUT WHO THINKS THAT OTHERS ARE AS LAZY AS HE IS, LACKING AS HE DOES THE IQ TO UNDERSTAND WHEN HE’S BEATEN (ONCE AGAIN).

hercules_in_new_york

Sleeps

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PAGE CONTENTS

SLEEPS – SLIMEBALL – THE TWO FACES OF SCHNARCH – SOCRATIC INTERLUDE – SODA POP – SOME & ALL – SPACESUITS – SR1419 PWNS RUDEDOG – STEAM – STERN’S “DUMBEST CONSPIRACY EVER” – STEVE

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

SLEEPS

“they don’t have to use the engines to spread it” – Well, there’s only the fuel dump vents on the wing trailing edges. Where else do you mean?

wing5

There would have to be special tanks and bowsers, airport personnel in protective clothing, some operators or their families poisoned or infected, splashes anywhere on runway aprons would be brilliant WHITE.
THERE IS NONE OF THIS!
“I look through my binoculars and can see” – CONTRAILS.
“look Clifford is not deceiving” – WHEN HE SLEEPS…
“metallic salt introduced as a condensation nuclei” – 3.4 MILLION TONS would be required to single/shot the Earth (apparently there’s a report which claims 20 million tons). You’d have to keep doing it as well…
“pets licking/planes adding” – No connection. Do you live near a salt mine, or the sea?
“Trails should not spread” – GO AWAY AND READ UP before you repeat yourself. Try href=”http://contrailscience.com”>http://contrailscience.com
If you wish to discover TRUE SCIENCE, just use “advanced search” and make sure you exclude “CHEMTRAIL”, “CHEM”, and “AEROSOL”, as there are thousands of chemtrailers out there, and they do not understand science at all, and are clogging up the web with misinformation and disinformation.

SLIMEBALL

Hi Slimeball Disinformation Specialist…
Seeing as you are conducting a campaign of LIES I thought I’d hit you with TRUTH.
An easy thing to do because you don’t have to remember what you said last time….
My basic life story is on http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc
I have a channel here, as you can see.
I am a 65 yr old man, heterosexual and faithful, happily married for forty years, with a beautiful and intelligent wife, two beautiful and intelligent professionally-qualified daughters, and an energetic and intelligent 8 year old grandson (and another’s on its way!). I have never lied or cheated throughout my life. I am an inventor, composer, and artist. I owe no-one anything (apart from my wife) and am successful and happy.
What have you done, apart from LIE? (Rhetorical, but he didn’t understand that…)

THE TWO FACES OF SCHNARCH

November 2007
i just took a look at your wordpress blog. don’t get me wrong. i’m not fanatical about chemtrails, just curious. i haven’t reached a final conclusion yet. i’m interested in all kinds of information regarding that topic. that means i’m interested in plain scientific fact, weird sci-fi psycho theories and everything in between.
one false theory spread by the chemtrail fanatics is: ‘every contrail that doesn’t disappear within a few minutes is a chemtrail’. in saturated troposphere a contrail can trigger the generation of a cirrus cloud. i remember seeing some vapor trails that don’t dissipate since my early childhood. i also saw fat contrails in ‘rocky 2’ starring sylvester stallone.
another misleading theory is that there are no chemtrails at all.
As i’m sure that you have seen this video posted by your special friend nicscics, german military admits spraying substances that appeared on a weather radar as a ghost cloud. the meteorologist thinks that it’s chaff.
whatever it is, some planes are flying around spraying crap without asking the population if they want it. another well documented case is espanola canada. the difference is that unlike germany the officials denied the whole thing over there. these are just two examples that shouldn’t be ignored.
what still makes me sceptical is the amount of unverified crap about chemtrails that is being spread on the internet. it’s almost like a special interest of esoteric/UFO weirdos that don’t care about evidence. for instance the spray on/off phenomenon. i understand that the plane can alternate between saturated and unsaturated layers of the troposphere which causes the illusion of spray on/off. i also know about hypersaturation causing the illusion of the whole plane spraying. and i know about the wake vortex.
and if someone sees a plane spraying something, it’s only fuel dumping. and that is only done in case of emergency. there must either be a lot of emergency situations up there or they are doing that too often. when i mentioned low flying planes causing a contrail (or chemtrail) that turns into a lasting cloud you asked me to VERIFY it. i can not do it. even if i would film it with 20x zoom compare the size of the plane to the size of planes flying in cruising altitude filmed with 20x zoom … u could argue it’s fake. i don’t have the possibility of taking a stereo picture. so i’m afraid i cannot verify it to convince you. the problem is that i can tell the difference between a plane in cruising altitude and a plane flying less than 5000m high. when i saw that the first time i was stunned. i had already dumped the chemtrail theory then. but to see that happening very often made me change my mind. i also happen to see this phenomenon pretty often.
when i first saw it i thought he just filmed a reflection in the window. now i know it’s a parhelion/ sun dog. look up sun dog on youtube. i did it and rarely found a sun dog video without con-(chem?)trails, even if the lucky filmers weren’t aware of it. the ones i saw looked like in the video i mentioned above. that also is not an evidence for the existence of chemtrails.
two days ago i saw clouds illuminated by the sun with pink and bright green stains on them after heavy air traffic. i couldn’t believe my eyes … ok, so you tell me those stains were caused by ice crystals. btw i could claim anything, i could be a liar.
another strange thing is a dry cough some people have. it is not like a cold, it feels like edema in the bronchia. after days of crazy air traffic it feels like someone peels your throat with a knife. a friend of mine who thinks i’m a kook told me lately that he nearly puked out his lung when he went to work by bicycle one morning. he told me that he thinks some times that something ‘is wrong with the air’. he said that it made him think about the crazy conspiracy theory i told him about. we had the same symptoms on the same days during a time we hadn’t met for weeks. the funny thing is that i could describe his exact symptoms after he told me about it…

Yours is about the best letter I’ve had so far. Perhaps a dozen have written to me, (and I have a couple of friends now as a consequence).
But yours ain’t bad.
About my “special friend” nicscics…
Everything he has published has been discredited and debunked. It’s all lies. He has published so many lies that he deserves special treatment, and he’s going to get it from me in the fullness of time. The “report” was a complaint about “chaff” disrupting weather radar which was deliberately and cynically mis-translated into a “chemtrail” issue. Not everything on the web is true, and in the case of “chemtrails” nothing is EVER true.

spoctalk

5,000m high “chemtrails”? As I said, try to verify it. (It might be technically possible for that to occur on a cold day, close to the poles!)
With a standard telephoto/camera combination it IS possible to calculate the range from the image size. You just need a “dangleometer” (plumb-bob/protractor) to give you the camera angle, and Bob’s your uncle. “Contrailscience.com” (a “debunker” site!) gives you the why and the wherefore.
The contents of “chemtrails” can only be proved by catching the stuff at 35,000ft and taking it quickly back to a lab for analysis. As I have said before, you have to use TWO synchronized cameras, (and TWO independent monitoring witnesses) and make sure that NEITHER the SAMPLE nor the EQUIPMENT leaves the VIDEO FRAME until analysis is COMPLETE and the FIGURES DISPLAYED.
CHAFF is a complete red herring. It won’t make you any more ill than your aluminium saucepan (rhubarb! whoops!) but you know what I mean.
So are ISOLATED MINOR INCIDENTS. THEY are NOT part of some GLOBAL “conspiracy”!
Plane emergencies are sometimes caused by passengers….
Sun-dogs are an ICE refraction/interference phenomenon. They have been noted for thousands of years. They DO happen WITHOUT any aircraft “connection”. They are a natural phenomenon.
href=”http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halosim.htm”>http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halosim.htm

They CANNOT happen with metal compounds, or dusts, which break down the crystal-forming. I NOW live in the Canaries; we quite often get beautiful high-altitude pearlescent clouds, but never when we have a KALIMA, which is a dust-laden wind from the Sahara. The KALIMA turns our complete world SEPIA MONOCHROME – we get “Photoshopped”! But no halos or sundogs while that happens.

halo

I LEFT Britain (North London – Home Counties) because since about 1995 I found it increasingly difficult to breathe. The two things I couldn’t live with were POLLEN and PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG.
You should research how dangerous these two things are in combination, and consider their prevalence, and then their RELEVANCE to “chemtrail” debate. I agree with you, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR AIR.
Since I moved in 2002 I have been perfectly fit and well… yet I live close to a busy airport (they climb past my window here 300M to my left and 300M up!), and seven miles up over my head I CAN see persistent contrails – sometimes…
And I live where a desert meets the sea. There’s NO TRACE either of pollen or photochemical smog… and there’s NOTHING WRONG WITH MY AIR EITHER…
i also see where planes normally fly and have to say that the suspected planes don’t have air corridors, they appear everywhere. you look in one direction and see planes fly back and forth leaving a con-(chem?)trail grid. and the next days there is no plane at all in the same direction.
i cannot quite imagine who would do that, how they do that nearly everywhere and why they would do it. i am usually quiet about chemtrails, it only makes ppl think i’m crazy. but yes, i do think something strange is going on. i also admit that there is a lack of hard evidence for the existence of chemtrails. even though it is verified that it DID happen doesn’t necessarily mean it happens everywhere.
so i don’t think everybody has to share my opinion on this. as far as you are concerned: you only seem to accept facts that support your theory (chemtrails=bs). many chemtrail whackos also only accept facts that support their theory. it it strange that you invest so much time to argue with ppl who think chemtrails do exist. if someone has beliefs i do not share, i think it’s not my business. i also think it’s arrogant to think your theories resemble objective reality.

You may think my behavior arrogant, but that is because you mistakenly believe me to believe in a “theory”. I don’t. I understand the scientific basis for your belief, while you do not. You need to consider the “observer effect”. You only see what you’re looking at WHEN you’re looking at it. You only see planes WHEN they are laying contrails on a blue sky day WHEN the stratosphere is (invisibly) saturated. THAT is WHEN you remember them… The “Grid” of trails is a “print-out” consequence of CROSSING SHUTTLE ROUTES. It will appear at a different part of the sky (on wet blue-sky days!) because the stratosphere SPEED and DIRECTION vary ALL THE TIME. The plain facts are that you DON’T see the planes on a very dry blue sky day AT ALL (blue light scattering “removes” the plane, and the trail is tiny/non-existent). And, of course, you don’t see the planes at all on overcast days.

The general truth is that the SAME PLANES ARE FLYING THE SAME ROUTES ALL THE TIME. It’s the airline business.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sQNn1FbnEI&NR=1

Another general truth is that you haven’t yet thought properly and constructively about your perception. How you “trust” your vision (how can it be wrong?) but let it down with your conclusion (you were crucially unaware of OTHER FACTS). Does the Sun go round the Earth? What do your EYES tell you?
The logic of TELLING people this is that while people confront a COMPLETELY NOEXISTENT PROBLEM the REAL PROBLEMS are UNADDRESSED. Pollen/photochemical smog CONTINUES to KILL PEOPLE, and the PTB’s REAL way of shafting YOU remains undetected…  In the terms of having a REAL, PRACTICAL, AND FUNCTIONING SOCIAL CONSCIENCE, people who adhere to the “chemtrail” theory are WORSE THAN USELESS. I’m quite happy to tell such people so…

 bonkers22

 Remember “don’t get me wrong. i’m not fanatical about chemtrails, just curious. i haven’t reached a final conclusion yet”?
Well our hero SCHNARCH keeps an open internet diary, from which I quote:
Jan 16 2008 After seeing a sundog aka parhelion after heavy chemtrail activity over leipzig/germany (it looked like in this vid), i wanted to know what that is all about. is it a natural phenomenon that happens once in a while or is it caused by chemtrails? many ppl posted their captions of sundogs and halos, few noticed the chemtrails in their vids. the only videos without a chemtrail haze were taken near the south pole. here are a few examples of sundog and 22 degree halo vids clearly showing chemtrails, yet the filmers of these vids ignore them. He also noticed the connection between sundogs and chemtrails, he calls it ‘magic rainbow’. Are chembows the same phenomenon as sundogs and halos? what causes these strange rainbows? ice crystals (natural) or chemtrails?”

I TOLD HIM DUSTS PREVENTED CRYSTAL FORMATION!

.

“Today I noticed little activity over my hometown, until the blue sky showed, but it wasn’t there to stay. Many planes appeared and spread their haze. I don’t need to look up into the sky to see what’s happening. There’s a stinky smell outside and i feel it in my throat. I noticed these irritations before I knew about chemtrails. the way most ppl think about this phenomenon makes me think i’m nuts or paranoid sometimes. But i’m afraid i’m not. I think it’s real. some planes are flying so low I can’t imagine it’s cold enough for contrails to form at all. After seeing three sun dogs in one week, many u-turns of planes, planes leaving chemtrails despite flying at a low altitude (<3000m/ 10000ft). the whole thing still gets me thinking.
Jan 17 2008 It is hard to find reliable information about chemtrails in Germany. Of course many ppl take photos and videos. but there is little confirmed information about chemical or biological fall-out analysis. Most websites about chemtrails in Germany are full of esoteric/spiritual stuff and ufo-stuff. few ppl take this issue seriously, most will ridicule the whole thing. it is unimaginable to most that the government is spraying us like bugs. If you want to share a good laugh with friends, tell them about chemtrails. to have some hard evidence for chemtrails would be nice. Carnicom or Rense seem to be pretty good, but the ppl over here in Germany won’t relate to that. The US isn’t Germany (they think). The part of the population who are aware of chemtrails are a lost minority. If only a few people know about this, it’s useless.
Jan 18 2008 ‘no fucking marking on that muthafucker’ … lol, unmarked planes all over the planet. Does anybody know the low-flying sausages with the fuselage that appears to be very thick compared to the wings? They produce either clouds or nothing. I’d love to shoot down one of them with a stinger just to see what’s in it. The ‘sausage’ plane i was referring to reminds me of an airbus A300-600ST, tho i’m not sure. it’s a cargo plane. Wikipedia says only five of them were built.”

IT’S AN AIRBUS FUSELAGE TRANSPORTER!

.

“Jan 20 2008 Maybe i’m wrong, but yesterday i saw a plane that looked like this on my way home from work. it was flying pretty low (app. 10000ft), all of a sudden it left a chemtrail that turned into a lasting cloud and flew on without any contrail at all. i saw planes like that fly along chemtrails that were sprayed before without leaving a contrail at all. Is anyone familiar with this type of aircraft? Many of the chemtrails are sprayed by the notorious unmarked tanker planes. “

I TOLD HIM ABOUT BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING!

.

“Jan 20 2008 Interestingly chemtrails appear very often in the afternoon and in the evening. this increases the humidity in the troposphere and keeps the ground level from cooling down. yesterday i read a statement by a meteorologist on a german page, who suggested that planes should fly 6000ft below cruising altitude to avoid the forming of contrails that increase the humidity of the troposphere/ stratosphere. that means that chemtrails seem to cause local warming where they occur.”

I TOLD HIM THAT HUMID CONDITIONS CAUSED PERSISTENT TRAILS!

.

“Jan 24 2008 I will never leave the house without my camera again. Yesterday i saw clouds lit by the sun, they had red and green stains … the sun wasn’t emitting much light in the red spectrum at that time. btw yesterday a friend of mine told me that he was going to work by bicycle yesterday in the morning. He said that he almost puked his lungs out for no reason … ‘something’ was wrong with the air … made me think about your paranoid conspiracy theory’ – lol. What is going on? WHO wants to weaken or kill us? We are really getting hammered with chemtrails at the moment. Maybe 80% of the weather is engineered right now.
Feb 10 2008 Check this out. GOt EM! CHEMTRAILS ON GERMAN TV. I know this one. The debunkers always say ‘it’s only chaff, chaff is a red herring, blabla’. I don’t know why the military should be using chaff nowadays, you can’t fool modern radar with it.”

YOU CAN!

.

“Other debunkers say that the phantom clouds on the weather radar attracted attention because they were NOT visible as opposed to the chemtrails which are visible. dunno. Since I noticed that small metallic particles are everywhere (windows, windshields, even in the dust on my furniture) I need no more proof. I also saw planes spraying at ridiculously low altitude (15000ft/5000m).
Feb 22 2008 I just posted a video about chemtrails over Leipzig. in the videos you can see sun dogs, a 22 degree halo, upper tangent arc and a circumzenithal arc – caused by chemtrails. At the end of the video there is a spray plane flying low in the evening sun – with 30x zoom. It does have wings, webfairy.
Feb 28 2008 It would makes sense if the sundogs were related to chemtrails.  Especially if the dense chemtrails contained heavy metals that the sun was reflecting off of.
Mar 7 2008 Persistant contrails do also occur naturally but not that many, not that often. Sometimes they spray the whole day and sometimes they only spray assault-like for 30 minutes or so. Strange. I wonder which planes they are using. Sometimes i see 747s. I really think we live in a strange age. i am waiting for major changes, but maybe it is stilla couple of decades away from now.
Mar 10 2008 I posted them and some shill came right out of the woodwork. The links are dead. At least they smell funny.”

Smell funny? 🙂

SOCRATIC INTERLUDE

There was a brief moment when I pm’ed Socrates (of ‘All Aircraft are Not Involved’) and he pm’ed me back with what seemed to me a gracious reply, and we were all set for an interesting dialogue from opposite ends of the table, so-to-speak. But it was not to be:
Socrates
This could be a breakthrough proving disinformation thus proving chemtrails. For why would such efforts be taken to alter the contents of books to make it seem that commercial aircraft can create chemtrails and always have and thus chemtrails are contrails???
The focus returns to the Epoxynous character, now known for spamming youtube and having a disinformation website named Contrail Science. This is no obvious scammer like “KevinMartin” who offers enigmas in the form of convolution. This guy works with subtlety.
I took care of this guy last year. For another one of these types of videos, it turned out that every example he found was from military aircraft.
Now he has made a video alleging to have found chemtrailed skies from 1972. I used a proxy to get into Carnicom’s where I found out about this. The hat tip goes to Vericarl, who by chance has been accused by Megasprayer of being my sock puppet. There was only one other thread that seemed interesting. Day Glo, the voice of reason, deleted her posts, so I don’t know what it was about. But I think it was similar to her previous types of posts pointing out crazy ideas that make chemtrails look like an internet hoax.
I believe a few of us have made a difference. I believe that despite the fact that the major chemtrail boards have been rigged, a few of us have gotten the word out that it is not outrageous to believe in chemtrails. Maybe Day Glo saw my post slamming Kathaksung before it was deleted and I was banned. Perhaps Day Glo is for real and is starting to realize that Cliff Carnicom is part of the problem.
Epoxynous/Contrail Science is a Patrick Minnis mouthpiece.

( For details of Patrick Minnis read my blog “Penrod – Debunking Chemtrail Debunking Debunking” – https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/26-penrod/ )
They are admitting that we are seeing what Minnis refers to as contrail outbreaks. These guys are going way out of their way to try to make chemtrails look kooky. They then have Deborah, Chem11, Arcadia Ego, and BigBunny spreading the disinfo that chemtrails are contrails. This has been an elaborate script covering many years, around nine to be exact.
There is even the same kind of nonsense going on at Chemtrail Central with someone named Free World Order, but I digress.
I am not sure why two books would have the same isbn number. Perhaps that isn’t a big deal. I don’t know. It could have been a typo or it might mean something.
But unless the Italian chemmies are plants, some form of strawmen, they have located the book Epoxynous used for his video. The book has obviously been altered where the photos used by Epoxynous are located. The only thing I can think of is that the Italian chemmies are fakes, and it will be proven that they scripted this whole thing, that they are the disinfo strawmen to boost Epoxynous’ credibility.
However, the only thing I see from their youtube page that doesn’t add up is that the guy “TankerEnemy” wrote that he is censored on his own pages. Yet right in the comments, there he is. Controlled opposition is a problem we must keep an eye out for. But nonetheless, please check this out. It sure looks like Epoxynous and many others have been busted for being spooks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM75WU-ko9U
TankerEnemy
We found these kind of anomalies not long after a symposium of C.I.C.A.P. (italian debunkers). During the conference, Simone Angioni, an italian chemist, (as well as component C.I.C.A.P.), showed this book with the same strange details. Obvsiouly he showed it trying to demonstrate that hours-persistent-contrails ever existed. We know it’s a lie then we purchased the same volume and found what we let anybody see in this video. Some pages were torn and replaced with other different ones. Somebody manipulated a number of original informations of this book, “Clouds of the World”. Ask yourself: WHY?

anthony.r.duncan (that’s me, folks!)
 socrates: This could be a breakthrough proving disinformation thus proving chemtrails. For why would such efforts be taken to alter the contents of books to make it seem that commercial aircraft can create chemtrails and always have and thus chemtrails are contrails?
I wouldn’t be so hot to trot if I were you. For you are taking the words of a proven hoaxer as truth.
Quote: The focus returns to the Epoxynous character, now known for spamming youtube and having a disinformation website named Contrail Science. This is no obvious scammer like “KevinMartin” who offers enigmas in the form of convolution. This guy works with subtlety.
Yes, he subtly asks for PROOF.
Quote: I took care of this guy last year. For another one of these types of videos, it turned out that every example he found was from military aircraft.
The early persistent trails WERE from military aircraft. They were the only planes carrying people photographing aircraft. When civil aviation began to expand (from a size fifty times smaller than the present) the people inside weren’t taking pictures of the trails that these aircraft were making.
Quote: Now he has made a video alleging to have found chemtrailed skies from 1972.
Of a book (showing persistent contrails). I’ve seen this. Look, Socrates, I’ve seen (in the late forties!) newspaper and magazine pictures of persistent trails myself. This horse doesn’t run.
Quote: I believe a few of us have made a difference. I believe that despite the fact that the major chemtrail boards have been rigged, a few of us have gotten the word out that it is not outrageous to believe in chemtrails.
I don’t know if the major chemtrail boards are rigged. I’ve been ejected from YouTube, David Icke, and Outlaw. If anything, the rigging’s the other way.
Quote: Epoxynous/Contrail Science is a Patrick Minnis mouthpiece. They are admitting that we are seeing what Minnis refers to as contrail outbreaks. These guys are going way out of their way to try to make chemtrails look kooky.
If aviation’s increased by fifty times since the fifties, the aircraft engines are putting fifty times more water into the air. If trail times reflect the humidity of the air they are dumped in (which they must!), then trail length and sizes must also increase. There’s a million tons of water added to the air each day. This is a tiny proportion of the amount that is already up there, but these trails are the most dense where the atmosphere is at its coldest, which is at the tropopause, approximately 26,000 feet up in the central US. Contrail ‘outbreaks’ must increase as air travel increases. It is atmospheric science. There is no “maybe” here.
Quote: They then have Deborah, Chem11, Arcadia Ego, and BigBunny spreading the disinfo that chemtrails are contrails. This has been an elaborate script covering many years, around nine to be exact.
If all scientists say the same thing, it doesn’t have to be “to a script”, does it? It is just that they share the same understanding. If you were to say “the Sun goes round the Earth”, then a lot of people would disagree with you, but not to a script!
Quote: But unless the Italian chemmies are plants, some form of strawmen, they have located the book Epoxynous used for his video. The book has obviously been altered where the photos used by Epoxynous are located. The only thing I can think of is that the Italian chemmies are fakes, and it will be proven that they scripted this whole thing, that they are the disinfo strawmen to boost Epoxynous’ credibility.
Those “chemmies” are crooks, and doing what they always do – LIE. They are responsible for photoshopping a Boeing 777LR CG test prototype interior with a “hazmat inside” sign, and rostrumming this photo (freely available from airliners.net) into the “Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer” video. My challenging this YouTube video got me thrown off YouTube, so i) the world’s not rigged against you, and ii) they are lying bastards who’ll do anything to further their malicious agenda. These guys are working beyond the Hanlon’s Razor mentioned in my signature – they know exactly what they are doing. And so do I.
Quote: However, the only thing I see from their youtube page that doesn’t add up is that the guy “TankerEnemy” wrote that he is censored on his own pages. Yet right in the comments, there he is. Controlled opposition is a problem we must keep an eye out for. But nonetheless, please check this out. It sure looks like Epoxynous and many others have been busted for being spooks.
TankerEnemy is simply lying, and you know that when you lie, the problem is that you have to remember the list of the lies you make, and trot them out to order. If you keep on doing that, you end up falling off your self-made cliff.
TankerEnemy: We found these kind of anomalies not long after a symposium of C.I.C.A.P. (italian debunkers). During the conference, Simone Angioni, an italian chemist, (as well as component C.I.C.A.P.), showed this book with the same strange details. Obvsiouly he showed it trying to demonstrate that hours-persistent-contrails ever existed. We know it’s a lie then we purchased the same volume and found what we let anybody see in this video. Some pages were torn and replaced with other different ones. Somebody manipulated a number of original informations of this book, “Clouds of the World”. Ask yourself: WHY?
I’ve already answered his question.
socrates
I’ve had some concerns with the big forum he is affiliated with. They seem to have stuff on orgone and ufos, for a few examples. But I don’t know Italian, so it’s not something I have access to figuring out. That all the early evidence of aircraft induced white-outs are from military aircraft implies that such evidence is useless. Plus, those white-outs don’t look like those that showed up around the year 2000 or a bit earlier.
We’ve also already heard all the explanations from the closed-minded debunker side. Increased air traffic. More pollution particles in the air. New turbo engines. It’s gotten very stale.
Your horse seems to be one that keeps running in the stratosphere despite the consistent claims of witnesses that the white-outs are being created much lower than that.
I’m not saying for sure that the book in question was tampered with, but it sure looks like it may have happened.
It’s good that you were banned from youtube. No one likes to read spam.
You are a broken record. I was in the trenches and figured out a lot about fake chemmies named Deborah, Chem11, BigBunny, Arcadia Ego, Wayne Hall, Lou Aubuchont and many more. But oh no, according to you, it appears that I am just smearing them because they disagree with me. And real scientists agree with them! So it doesn’t even matter, according to you, if a sophisticated fake chemmie/fake debunker script has been uncovered.
In a controlled opposition, discrepancies are planted for the scripted foes to debunk. The result has been nothing but noise. Real people have been shamed out of participating. There’s no need for real people in such discussions. Lou Aubuchont is a nutjob? Have Jay Reynolds point that out. Carol Rosin is in all likelihood a cointelpro plant in the peace in space movement? Have ContrailScience point it out. God forbid the few real chemmies who refused to give up have been the ones to clean up the whole stinking disinfo ship.
This forum wasn’t established so people like yourself could show up and change the tempo. Your past spamming attempts and bullying efforts are taken into consideration when reading these present efforts.
As for David Icke and the Outlaw Forum, those are two of the worst websites on the whole internet. Why you would want to post there is beyond my imagination. I can see how Uri stayed on a fair bit to set the record straight about the neo-nazi ideology being spammed, but for you to say you are such an intellect, yet post at those kinds of places, is hard to make sense of.
Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies.
The preponderance of evidence shows that a “chemtrails are kooky” script has been put in place. There is something referred to as concern trolling. Folks will make it appear that they are one of the good guys. They will post things that make sense in order to gain the reader’s confidence. But what goes on with such folks is a confidence game.
I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look like things are working out here. Nothing personal, but I’m starting to remember how annoying you can be.
Take my advice and go to DebateBothSides. I kind of don’t want you here.
 
 anthony.r.duncan
socrates
: those white-outs don’t look like those that showed up around the year 2000 or a bit earlier.
They look exactly the same to me.
Quote: Increased air traffic – stale.
Truth seems stale to you?
Quote: consistent claims of witnesses that the white-outs are being created much lower than that.
But not one proof, with all those videocams…
Quote: It’s good that you were banned from youtube. No one likes to read spam.
Policemen are nasty people that attack burglars. That seem reasonable to you?
Quote: figured out a lot about fake chemmies – according to you, it appears that I am just smearing them
Really? Does it? Did I say so?
Quote: because they disagree with me.
How could they possibly do that?
Quote: So it doesn’t even matter, according to you, if a sophisticated fake chemmie/fake debunker script has been uncovered.
A script using scientific truth? NO – it doesn’t. I quote: “Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies.”
Quote: In a controlled opposition <snip> whole stinking disinfo ship.
I can appreciate your concern about that. It’s the mess we have to swim in. I don’t give a monkey’s fart for such stupid shenanigans – my only concern is science and logic. It seems to me that arguments using these two themes can continue unobstructed through the above-mentioned crap.
Quote: This forum wasn’t established so people like yourself could show up and change the tempo.
Gosh. I know what that is code for.
Quote: Your past spamming attempts and bullying efforts are taken into consideration when reading these present efforts.
You seem keen to define what I’m doing here as some pre-arranged agenda. If a LIAR sets up business in YouTube, is that OK? If someone calls out the lie, is that SPAM?
Quote: As for David Icke and the Outlaw Forum, those are two of the worst websites on the whole internet. Why you would want to post there is beyond my imagination. I can see how Uri stayed on a fair bit to set the record straight about the neo-nazi ideology being spammed, but for you to say you are such an intellect, yet post at those kinds of places, is hard to make sense of.
Three days at Icke?  Setting the record straight about CTs and Evolution was wrong when I did it in Outlaw – yet Uri was OK in the same activity re NeoNazis? Whoa! Did I call myself an intellectual?
Quote: Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies. The preponderance of evidence shows that a “chemtrails are kooky” script has been put in place. There is something referred to as concern trolling. Folks will make it appear that they are one of the good guys. They will post things that make sense in order to gain the reader’s confidence. But what goes on with such folks is a confidence game.
I think you’re succombing to paranoia here. If you feel in advance you are going to lose an argument with me, and it makes you wish to repel me, you should ask yourself why. If I am about to win an argument by reason alone, then as a reasonable man you should anticipate that possibility with pleasure. Otherwise what else is there? Unreason and fear?
Quote: I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look like things are working out here. Nothing personal, but I’m starting to remember how annoying you can be. Take my advice and go to DebateBothSides. I kind of don’t want you here.
Well, I assume that means you don’t want to consider reason, science and logic. There hasn’t been anything like that from you so far. It’s strange, but try as I might, I just don’t see you as malicious.
————————————————————————————-
Hanlon’s Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/about/
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/jazzroc
http://www.esnips.com/web/Beachcomber-Classics

big_smile

And THEN I was gone! Of course, a post followed my last, and it was this:

Re: Jazzroc is Disinfo by socrates on Sat Feb 28, 2009 wrote:
I’m surprised you haven’t looked more into this rather than the dead-end chemtrails versus contrails debates. It’s like with global warming. The deniers trot out their small list of scientists and political operatives in an attempt to turn the undebatable into an enigma. I think it’s fairly accepted that Frankensteinian geoengineering ideas are no good. But there has been a push to cover up the Dr. Evil part of it, from Paul Crutzen to guys like Wigley and Benford.

socrates

anthony.r.duncan wrote:
A year and a half ago I knew nothing at all about “chemtrails”. These names I don’t know.

socrates wrote:
His claim of being an anarcho-socialist
(SYNDICALIST) or whatever rings hollow. He also claims to be a buddhist atheist. Uri called him out good on that one. If one doesn’t get caught up trying to read his headache slice and dice hatchet jobs on folk’s posts, you can see that he is working scams. Useful idiot or paid disinfo? Those are the only two choices I see.

Jazzroc is the debunker version of Halva {“Wayne Hall”}. Stalinists, anti-social, dogmatic, utterly sporadic. A normal debunker would be cool. Closed-minded debunkers out of the cookie cutting university will not do. He chops and sautees everyone’s posts out of context (untrue). As someone else said, he is a time waster. Sorry about that Uri. Feel free to pm me if anyone else you know is a suspected troll. Though now I probably sound just like all this astroturfing Kos Kop/troll pack paranoia. This was/is an interesting thread. It’s as if he picked the most normal looking one to newbies to disrupt and derail. Or he has some severe anti-social skills.

I think he’s a spook. How could he say he never heard of Paul Crutzen? Hey Uri, then people like us get called troublemakers for just being down-to-earth and telling it like it is. The final straw was seeing how he was discussing Paul Crutzen with one of the only normal posters there (untrue). But earlier in this thread, he claims to have never heard of Paul Crutzen. He really is fairly dumb as a debunker. His talk of the stratosphere was ridiculous, as if chemtrails are being witnessed from aircraft in their cruising elevations. (They are!)

He could very well be paid disinfo, in my humble opinion.

He wasn’t the possessor of a “humble opinion”. He thought he knew enough science, when he thought that aircraft cruised in the troposphere, and couldn’t accurately state or recollect things either…

Who is Paul Crutzen? I shall have to go and check…

Ah…

Curriculum Vitae of Prof. Dr. Paul J. Crutzen
Born: December, 3, 1933 in Amsterdam, Holland.
Family status: Married, two children.
Academic Studies:
Civil Engineering, 1951-1954, Amsterdam, Holland.
Academic Studies and Research Activities 1959-1973 at the University of Stockholm, Sweden.
M.Sc. (Filosofie Kandidat), 1963.
Ph.D. (Filosofie Licentiat), Meteorology, 1968,
Title: “Determination of parameters appearing in the ‘dry’ and the ‘wet’ photochemical theories for ozone in the stratosphere”, Examiner: Prof. Dr. Bert Bolin, Stockholm, Sweden.
D.Sc. (Filosofie Doctor), 1973, Stockholm,Sweden,
Title: “On the photochemistry of ozone in the stratosphere and troposphere and pollution of the stratosphere by high-flying aircraft”, Promoters: Prof. Dr. John Houghton, FRS, Oxford, and Dr. R.P. Wayne, Oxford.  (Ph.D. and D.Sc. degrees were given with the highest possible distinctions).
Employment:
1954 – 1958: Bridge Construction Bureau of the City of Amsterdam, Holland.
1956 – 1958: Military Service, The Netherlands.
1958 – 1959: House Construction Bureau (HKB), Gaevle, Sweden. 1959 – 1974: Various computer consulting teaching and research positions at the department of Meteorology of the University of Stockholm, Sweden, Latest positions: Research Associate Professor.
1969 – 1971: Post-doctoral fellow of the European Space Research Organization at the Clarendon Laboratory of the University of Oxford, England.
1974 – 1977: Research Scientist in the Upper Atmosphere Project, National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), Boulder,Colorado, USA. Consultant at the Aeronomy Laboratory, Environmental Research Laboratories, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Adminisitration (NOAA), Boulder, Colorado, USA.
1977 – 1980: Senior Scientist and Director of the Air Quality Division, National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), Boulder, Colorado, USA.
1976 – 1981: Adjunct professor at the Atmospheric Sciences Department, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado.
1980 – 2000: Member of the Max-Planck-Society for the Advancement of Science and Director of the Atmospheric Chemistry Division, Max-Planck-Institute for Chemistry, Mainz,  Germany.
1983 – 1985: Executive Director, Max-Planck-Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany.
1987 – 1991: Professor (part-time) at the Department of Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago, USA.
Since 1992: Professor (part-time), Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, La Jolla, USA.
1997 – 2000: Professor (part-time), Utrecht University, Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Sciences, The Netherlands.
Since November 2000: Emeritus.

Scientific interests of Prof. Dr. Paul J. Crutzen:
Global modelling of atmospheric chemical processes (2-D, 3-D) for troposphere, stratosphere and lower mesosphere.
Interactions of atmospheric chemistry with climate.
Studies of the potential role of halogen photochemistry with ozone in the marine boundary layer.
Tropospheric chemistry, including the role of biomass burning in the tropics and subtropics.

Gosh! Another no-good washout who doesn’t match up to socrates‘ standards, in spite of his Nobel Prize. Watch out, folks…

nobel

NOW I know about Paul Crutzen! 

So what’s with this guy SOCRATES?

Well, for sure he never passed Science at any level. In his world  atmospheric physicists and Nobel Prize-winners are simply other devious pervs like himself, with subtle and secret agendas.

The institutions they work for are merely tools of the powers-that-be, and the not-too-bright serfs that work under them, agents, enemies.

With his x-ray vision, SOCRATES is the seer who sees through other peoples’ feeble fronts, and lets you know the truth.

Un – BAH – leavable! (What’s this bad taste in my mouth?)(spits)

SODA POP

“Chemtrails” ARE SODA POP. Put them through a carbon filter for sure, and each mile of “chemtrail” will get you a crate of soda pop.
The stratosphere is stable and layered like an onion with layers of differing humidities. A “saturated” layer will NOT reabsorb the trail, which will slowly fall and form stratus or cirrus cloud. That is what you see…
Want some soda pop? I’m nuts for soda pop! Are you? 

SOME & ALL

Some of these in this film might be contrails.
ALL of them.

There were also normal passenger planes at the same height which left no trails at all.
Planes flying at the same height are never less than TEN MILES apart. Otherwise they are 2000 feet higher or lower. That could be in a layer of a different humidity.

I had my reasons to suspect that they were chemtrails.
You left REASON, and BELIEVED them to be “chemtrails”.

reason

 SPACESUITS

Vapor trails (soda pop!) are made of fine crystals of ICE (it’s very cold up there!). IF THERE WERE other “particles” in them, their rate of descent (inches/hour!) coupled with the prevailing wind (always there!) would place their LANDING point OVER your HORIZON. How on earth is THAT a TARGETED WEAPON?

If it’s such a GENERAL attack, can’t you spot the perpetrators? They’ll be the ones wearing SPACESUITS! 

SR1419 pwns RudeDog

This took place in Contrailscience’s lively comments section on January 24th, 2009. I wish I’d written this. A lively and interesting debate precedes this too:

RUDEDOG: “Your constant attempts to avoid the issues and your failures to adress the questions as they are presented to you once again reveals your true intentions to minipulate and decieve people. If these are not your true intentions, then why are you so determined to descredit every person and try to disprove every claim that is ever reported by people who are genuinely concerned about what they know are not normal contrails.”

SR1419: “This is somewhat of an ad hominem attack and somewhat surprising as I have done nothing but directly address the issue – specifically addressing your questions. That you do not understand the answer is not my fault… at least not entirely.  Moreover, accusing me of deception and manipulation is as outlandish as it is funny as I have not deceived anyone nor manipulated anyone… I put forth opinions based on facts.

Again, it gets back to ignorance… or perhaps lack of knowledge is a better way to phrase it – when you say “what they know are not normal contrails.” …I believe “they” DO NOT know what normal contrails are!

If they believe that any contrail that does not dissipate after a few minutes is not a “normal” contrail – then they DO NOT know. If they believe that because it is 120 degrees on the ground then contrails cannot persist – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. If they do not know that a contrail can spread out into sheets of cirrus clouds and even induce additional cirrus cloud formation – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. If they do not know that propeller-driven planes can leave contrails – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. This is not deception on my part, not manipulation on my part… this is lack of knowledge on their part.

…It is because of this lack of knowledge about all the variables that go into any given contrail… from the highly complex atmospheric conditions such as relative humidity, updraft velocity, and crystal concentrations necessary for contrails to form and persist, from the condensation nuclei needed, from the concept of ice supersaturation, to the types of ice crystals involved, to the effect the type of plane that is leaving the trail, to the type of engine the plane is using, to the particular mix of fuel any given plane has, to the speed of the plane… that I am highly skeptical about claims of “chemtrails”.

…Seeing a persistent contrail… filming it and posting it on YouTube claiming it is a “chemtrail” being sprayed is an exercise in speculation-based ignorance. Not a combination that leads to credibility.

Without knowing that there can be pockets of supersaturation leading to gaps in trails or that multiple planes leaving persistent contrails on perpendicular flight paths can resemble “grid” formations… or that any given moment there are over 5000 planes in the sky above the US, or that it is virtually impossible to determine the altitude of plane simply by looking up much less determine its logo from 7 miles away – or that any trail you see above you will not fall on you but instead drift for hundreds of miles with the upper winds… all this ignorance just adds fuel to the speculative fire.

Given the fact that “normal” contrails often behave EXACTLY like “chemtrails” supposedly do, it is impossible to definitively know that you are looking at one just by seeing it. Without sampling the trail in situ one cannot know for sure… and yet the vast majority of claims are based solely on visual “evidence”.

…And so, being that persistence is the only “evidence” offered…. and the fact that normal contrails can and do persist… and that most “chemtrail” believers are ignorant of a great deal of the information required to make an educated claim about what they think they see… it is easy to doubt their claims.

Do not worry about my motivation. Worry about facts. I am not out to “prove everyone is wrong”. I simply point out facts that are pertinent and show gaps in knowledge that – when filled – might lead to different conclusions and understanding. Insinuating that I am somehow complicit in some evil act simply because I do not agree with you is not a healthy argument.”

JazzRoc
“SR1419, the response you have made to RD above is so excellent that I have copied it into my blog, as a fine example of clarity, accuracy, and attention to detail. I hope you don’t mind.” 

RUDEDOG

“SR1419, If I understand you correctly, these are the facts as you see them regarding contrail formation:

*Contrails primarily consist of water vapor or ice crystals formed from water.
*In order for contrail to become persistent, the aircraft must be cruising at 40,000 feet or above.
*The ambient air temperature at that altitude must -40 degrees c or lower.
*The air must be ’super saturated’ to create the contrail.
*Regardless if the conditions at ground level are 120 degrees and dry or 10 degrees with high relative humidity, it has no affect on the conditions at 40,000 feet.
*Contrails are also formed behind propeller driven airplanes as well.

In regards to the last one, I cant find any data that shows propeller planes traveling at 40,000 feet or higher. I assume it would be dangerous since it might interfere with the jet aircraft. Or perhaps they were not designed to operate at that altitude. In any case, I have never seen one leave a contrail and I do not believe that they are a contributing factor to the plague in our skies.

There are literally thousands of pictures and videos that have been posted on the internet from legitimately concerned people that are posting them because they believe them to be something other than normal contrails. They believe this because they remember watching contrails being formed since they were children and the recent ones (in the last 10 years or so) do not behave or look like the contrails that they have come to know. You contribute this to increased air traffic and you claim that all of these people just weren’t paying attention prior to this or they just don’t remember contrails as clear as they think they do. That is merely an assumption on your part that is lacking any kind of science so that assertion is completely invalid. It is simply your own opinion. I personally remember very clearly watching contrails as a child and was very interested in them at an early age and have always been an avid sky watcher as have many many others that resent the fact that you do not believe this to be true.

There are many places on the internet to find these photos and videos. You tube is not the only place although it has many available to view. There are thousands of pictures and videos that have been submitted as ‘chemtrails’ which vary in geographic location around the globe, spanning all 12 months of the year when filmed and done so under all types of weather conditions and submitted by people for no other reason than looking for the truth. Out of all of these photos and videos, you claim that every one of them are nothing more than normal contrails that persist and spread out into cirrus clouds. This in turn means that you are claiming that all of these thousands of pictures and videos all have in common the above mentioned criteria necessary for the formation of persisting, spreading contrails.

You are claiming that every one of these photos and videos were taken at 40,000 feet (or pertinent to the latitude) and the temperature was -40 degrees or less and the air was super saturated at that moment in time. PROVE IT!

Certainly you must have proof of this in order to make such an affirmative bold statement. To call all of these people liars and to present your contrail explanation as the true facts and to portray the claims of the actual witnesses who were physically present during the incident as conspiracy theories or cases of mistaken identity.

The fact is, you have no proof of this. As a matter of fact, I am sure that I will be able to prove that some of them were in fact NOT filmed or photographed under the conditions necessary for the formation of a persistent ever expanding contrail cirrus cloud mutation. I will begin by seeking out the ones that have documented the date, time and location of the incident. Through some careful research, I will find out what the conditions were at that time and location and if the conditions could have supported the formation of lingering persistent thick ever expanding contrails, especially on a large scale as we see in so many of the photos and videos.

In the mean time, continue on with your campaign to deceive and dis-inform the unsuspecting population as you do. It is only a matter of time before that spiel has so many holes in it that the bottom will fall out.”

UNCINUS

“Rudedog, you seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding here. Nobody said contrails only form above 40,000 feet. All that was said was that if it was 120F at ground level then it can still be -40F at 40,000 feet.

Contrails can actually form at sea level if it is cold enough. There is a critical temperature that is required for contrails to form. This varies based on air pressure, which varies based on altitude. This is sometimes called the MINTRA level. At sea level this is about -11F, and about -40F at 34,000 See MINTRA here:

http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/54

MINTRA – To aid the forecasting of condensation trails emitted (or not) from high-flying aircraft, a line marking the critical temperatures (altitude dependent), above which trails are not possible, is marked on a tephigram . The values are approximately -24degC at 1000 hPa (i.e. roughly sea-level), -39degC at 250 hPa (34000ft / 10.4 km) and about -45degC at 130 hPa (50000feet/15km). Using the MINTRA line (as it has come to be called – based on experiments by JK Bannon during World War II with the piston-engined Spitfire), a forecaster will mark two further lines on a tephigram: MINTRA minus 11degC (A) and MINTRA minus 14degC (B). If the ambient temperature (from the tephigram air temperature plot) lies between (A) and (B), then short, non-persistent trails are possible. If colder than (B), then long, persistent trails should be expected. However, some note should be paid to the relative humidity – high values will tip the balance to trailing (or longer/persistent trails.), even with air temperatures warmer than (A); ultra-low rh% will reduce the risk of condensation trails – the design of engines will have an effect as well. In broad terms, warm Tropical Maritime airmasses with a high but cold tropopause will result in a good deal of trailing, whilst cold, polar air-masses with a low, relatively warm tropopause will seldom give rise to significant aircraft trails.

Super-saturation is only required for the contrail to spread out over several hours into a layer of cirrus cloud. No doubt the various different videos were filmed in various different conditions.

And contrails ARE also formed behind propeller driven airplanes, if they fly in a cold enough region. The first contrails were observed behind prop planes. Generally now though there’s not much point for a prop plane to fly high enough, so it’s unlikely that any contrails you see in the sky now are from prop planes (unless the weather is very cold).”

SR1419
“RD – Uncinus is correct… if it is cold enough contrails can form at ground level… much like exhaust from a car on a cold winter day… even persistent contrails can form at ground level.

“Supersaturation” refers to the air being supersaturated with respect to ice… look up “ice supersaturation” for more information. Since ice supersaturation areas can be quite large, persistent contrails often occur in clusters where many planes leave trails.

There are literally thousands of pictures and videos that have been posted on the internet from legitimately concerned people that are posting them because they believe them to be something other than normal contrails. They believe this because they remember watching contrails being formed since they were children and the recent ones (in the last 10 years or so) do not behave or look like the contrails that they have come to know.

I am sure “they” are legitimately concerned… that does not mean they can’t be wrong or can’t be ill-informed. Moreover, I never once called them liars. Do not put words in my mouth. I said they were ignorant of the information needed to truly know what they were looking at.

The FACT of the matter is persistent contrails DID EXIST when I, you and they were younger. The fact that you- as an “avid” skywatcher- do not remember them doesn’t mean it isn’t so. It was so. Uncinus’ many photos on this site should help clarify that. As this paper from 1970 will attest – persistent contrails that spread out, covering the sky in haze were very much a reality 30, 40, 50 years ago – perhaps not as common but very much a reality. I’m sorry if you do not remember them:

http://tinyurl.com/bypwmt (click on the PDF to read the paper)

As the author says:  “The writer himself has seen instances in which a single contrail seemed to grow until it became an overcast covering the whole sky.”

So, clearly…it was happening even if you do not remember.

Also – since it has been shown that persistent contrails are a result of normal aircraft use and have been a reality as long as aircraft have flown… then it is up YOU to prove that what you see in the sky is otherwise. The burden of proof is not on me… it is on those who claim that persistent contrails are something other than a normal result of plane flight.

That is where that pesky “evidence” comes into play. If all those legitimately concerned citizens are posting video of contrails that persist simply because they do remember them persisting when they were younger and therefore they must be part of a nefarious “spraying campaign” because they read it on the internet… well, then they are sorely mistaken and ignorant of the facts.

Where have I deceived or “dis-informed” anyone??? Alas, it is the “unsuspecting public” that has been deceived and misinformed by “chemtrail” theorists – claiming that any contrail that doesn’t dissipate is a “chemtrail”… and that contrails didn’t persist when they were younger. Those are utterly false claims.

Why do you keep trying to ascribe a motive to me? or why must I be out to deceive and “disinform”. Why can I not simply disagree with you?”

rudedog
SR1419, You say:”The fact that you – as an “avid” skywatcher – do not remember them doesn’t mean it isn’t so.”

If there was something to remember, I would remember it as clearly as I remember the other details of my lifelong experiences. So would everyone else that deliberately observed contrails in detail because they were fascinated by them.

You keep on insisting that every one of us have had some kind of blackout regarding contrail behavior when we were young. Tens of thousands of us have conveniently forgotten that particular part of our lifelong observances of jet contrails. One hell of a coincidence wouldn’t you say?

You attempt to debunk all chemtrail claims by referring to photos that uncinus has posted as so called evidence. The photos that you refer to are not convincing anyone that they have blocked that part of their memory out. They certainly are not ‘proof’ that what we are seeing today existed then either simply because you can not distinguish the difference. The fact of the matter is, they look like contrails by design. At least in the beginning stages anyway. If they did not resemble contrails do you think we would even be having this discussion? How is it that you can refer to a photo of something that you claim is a persistent spreading contrail from 30 or 40 years ago and then use that as your proof that there is no chemtrail spraying going on today? One has nothing to do with the other! Just because you say so doesn’t mean it is so.

Hypothetically speaking, if a series of planes were to release millions of gallons a clear liquid chemical that resembled drops of water does that mean that what we are seeing is ordinary rain? Of course not. If I were to use your logic then it must be ordinary rain because I can refer you to photos and documentation that says it has been raining just like that for my entire life. Since you can not tell the two apart by looking at photos or video, it means that to claim it is anything other than normal rainfall is a conspiracy theory.

Are you beginning to see how ridiculous your non-science is? Or are you just that ignorant of the fact that you or uncinus have not provided one shred of evidence that proves that any of the documentation submitted as chemtrails are nothing more than normal contrails. Just because you refer to a picture of a contrail does not make all things contrails. If they were just normal contrails this disinformation website would be non-existent.

I am afraid that the burden of proof is on YOU. People are providing photos and videos of the visual part of their chemtrail encounters and you are telling them that they are wrong. So where is your proof that they are all wrong? Shouldn’t you be able to back it up if you are going to contradict someone?

Uncinus
I don’t remember persistent contrails when I was a child. In fact I really only remember them from around 2006, I can’t say I recall ever seeing them before that time. Does that then mean that there were no persistent contrails before 2006?

rudedog, what year did you first notice them?

SR1419
Wow… not sure what to say to you RD… your twisted logic and refusal to acknowledge fact… and therefore reality… makes it hard to truly dialog.

Do you really believe that persistent contrails did not exist prior to you noticing them?

Did you read the paper I posted from 1970 where the author specifically describes contrails that persist, spread out and cover the sky in a haze? How do you reconcile that? Do you just ignore it? Was he lying? Is it planted disinfo??

What about this description also from 1970:

“The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[….]
Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By mid-afternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.”

or this comment from 1981:

“Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus“”

or the time lapse photos posted here from 1970 – showing exactly the persisting and spreading YOU CLAIM did not happen back then:

http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

“How is it that you can refer to a photo of something that you claim is a persistent spreading contrail from 30 or 40 years ago and then use that as your proof that there is no chemtrail spraying going on today?”

I use it as proof – along with the peer-reviewed scientific data from that time – that persistent contrails DID EXIST prior to you noticing them. It is not proof that “chemtrails” do not exist but it is PROOF that persistent, spreading contrails did exist prior to you noticing them….

…which leads to the basis of your claim. You allege that because you didn’t notice persistent contrails until recently that they did not exist back then… and that is proof that they are not persistent contrails but “chemtrails”.

…but THEY DID EXIST prior to you noticing them… and thus NOTHING is different now accept perhaps the frequency. The behavior of the trail in the sky now is exactly as they were described and photographed 40yrs ago… but you want to say that they are somehow different and thus is “evidence”. In fact, they are not different, they are identical and thus claims of “evidence” are dubious at best.

Your only “evidence” is videos of persistent contrails… but since they have always had the ability to persist, it isn’t really evidence at all but instead utter speculation based on ignorance. Your analogy is false… an appropriate analogy would be if you said that the liquid coming out of the clouds is not rain but really powdered aluminum… and I asked you how you knew this and you said because you did not remember liquid falling from clouds before.

See how ridiculous your claim seems?

Because persistent, spreading contrails have been observed, studied and acknowledged for over 50 years the burden of proof is on YOU to show that they are really something other than the accepted scientific fact. If you cannot acknowledge the fact that persistent contrails that spread out covering the sky in haze DID EXIST prior to you noticing them then we are at an impasse and your refusal to accept reality is a deal-breaker as far as dialog is concerned.

Good luck with that.

rudedog
You guys can talk all day about how a contrail can persist and spread into a cirrus cloud and it doesn’t even matter if it is true or false.
Once again, it does not prove that it is what you are seeing on another persons video. You talk about screwed up logic. Where is the logic in that? There isn’t any.

You offer a description of a contrail as you believe it to be, therefore all other things in pictures and videos that look similar to your description of a contrail can not be anything else but a contrail? Yeah, you are mister logical and we are all to whacked out to hold a conversation with. Hokey dokey mister logical. You are right about one thing. An intellectual conversation is not possible with you if that is your definition of logic. By the way, where does one go to study for his masters degree in contrail science? Oh, why am I asking you guys? I forgot, you are only here moderating this website because you like to look at clouds as a hobby or something. You just reminded me of being back in school, except in school the teachers actually had earned some sort of a degree to show that they had mastered the field that they are teaching and are competent to pass that knowledge on legitimately and with unquestionable integrity.
If you can refrain from giving lessons on contrail 101 and actual provide some actual proof that all of the chemtrail pics and videos are only contrails them maybe you might actually gain some integrity too. So far all you have is that they look similar to contrails, which is to be expected. Remember, just because you say they are does not make them so. Another redundant lesson on the history of contrails does not provide the proof that is necessary either. Please! Haven’t you beat that horse to death?

Like I said, if you are going to tell someone that they are wrong, then be able to prove it with something other than your personal opinion. It’s getting old.

JazzRoc
No, what’s getting old is your continued refusal to be scientific, yet make assumptions and pronouncements on what is essentially a science topic.
It is YOU that has to back up the claim that contrails are other than water, not WE that have to prove that your baseless claim is false.
We have all the proof that we need: scientific paper upon paper quantifying the contents of contrails. What’s more, so have you. You just aren’t reading it, or maybe you aren’t capable of comprehending it.
Just consider the AMOUNT of trail material recorded for a typical trail: 16Kg per meter – from the paper “Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
“The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 16 Kg per meter.”
That means a 5000 kilometer flight (THROUGH SATURATED AIR) would put down 80,000 tons of trail material…
Whoa! Wait a minute! Isn’t a jumbo’s fuel load about 250 tons?
So where does the rest come from? Answer = OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE
IT IS ICE OUT OF THE AIR, RUDEDOG. AND A LOT OF IT. 

STEAM

“Think of it logically” – Take your own medicine

“How could steam last for hours up in the freezing cold?” – HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM. Exhaust steam at 2000 deg C COOLS to -40 deg C in TWENTY-THOUSANDTHS of a second. Having cooled to -40 deg C (it can be COLDER than that!) the steam is now ICE, in tiny flat crystals, looking like white smoke. The plane is travelling at 800 FEET per second so you see the trail appear SIXTEEN FEET BEHIND the engines. THAT ICE WON’T GO AWAY unless it can EVAPORATE into it. If the HUMIDITY of the air is 100% then the ice CANNOT EVER evaporate into the air.

“Ever seen steam last for hours on a cold day? No? Duh.” – I think you need to repeat “No. Duh” because your reasoning has just been DESTROYED!

“They ensure planes don’t cross paths” – FAR FROM IT. Do you know anything about airportS and flight systems? – Thousands of planes cross paths ALL THE TIME. That is WHY there is AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL.

“It’s not hard to figure out” – But a bit harder than YOU thought

“None of this has anything to do with chemtrails!!!” – TRUE.

THIS is REAL. “Chemtrails” aren’t. 

STERN’S “DUMBEST CONSPIRACY EVER”

Chemtrails: Strong Competitor for “Dumbest Conspiracy Theory Ever”
By Ray Stern in NewsThursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 12:54PM

(This is such a huge post, chock full of misperceptions, misunderstandings and outright lies, that it’s going to be a while before it becomes completely rebutted. Probably a month or two…

But it will be. I have an absolute confidence, borne of two years experience now of NEVER finding anything that couldn’t be rebutted in chemtrail “truth”.)

pellat-stern

Most conspiracy theories are so ridiculous, it’s hard to choose which are the least plausible or which faces the higher mountain of opposing evidence. Some seem within the realm of the possible, such as the ones that surround the assassination of JFK, the Pearl Harbor attack or the murder of Princess Di. Others, like the absurd theories about the 9/11 attacks, rampant alien abductions, faked moon landings, Jewish world domination and Biblical creationism can be dismissed by reasonable people within minutes of hearing their proponents’ arguments.
The so-called “chemtrails” theory, espoused by Valley guitarist Carole Pellatt, lands solidly in the latter category. Simply put, the idea that secret agents are using jumbo jets to spray the whole world with toxins for some nefarious purpose is opposed by common sense, contrary evidence, lack of supporting evidence and sheer implausibility. The theory has at least a few dozen supporters who know how to use a computer. Our recent blog post about Pellatt and chemtrails has received 127 comments as of this morning. Most of the commenters are strong believers in the chemtrails conspiracy and took us to task for the minimal research we did before declaring the theory “debunked.”
We feel our level of research was far more than sufficient, given the subject matter. But we decided to spend another hour or so reviewing the post’s comments, reading some of the Internet reports — both pro and con — on chemtrails and e-mailing one of the ardent supporters of the theory for comment. We had an interesting conversation with Dave Mason of southern California, the person we e-mailed who uses the handle “freedomfighter4theplanet” for his blog comments. And we came to understand something about these chemtrail believers.Their real enemy isn’t the toxins they believe are being sprayed by waves of sinister jumbo jets.
What they are really scared of is skepticism. Mason, when confronted with a healthy dose of questions, seems to writhe on the phone like a vampire being dragged into sunlight. Our first question for Mason was why the government would be spraying people with poison. In a move typical of believers in disproven, illogical ideas, Mason tries desperately to change the subject. What he wants to talk about are his unending questions: Why won’t the government take his claims seriously? Why would a Raytheon-owned airplane working for the military fly in circles for hours without landing? Why can’t he inspect that airplane when it lands? Why would he be arrested if he threw chemicals out of his car window, yet no one seems to care that government jets are showering particles of heavy metals on people?

voodoo-1

When New Times attempted to show Mason some of his questions might have perfectly mundane answers — don’t some planes fly in circles to monitor weather? — Mason got upset. “It’s military — classified! Got it?” he pouts. When asked why he thinks the Raytheon airplane is suspicious, beyond the fact that it’s flying in circles, he hesitates to give an answer, perhaps wary of how corny it may sound. New Times presses, and Mason says the plane — which, admittedly, does bear the spooky name of “VOODOO1” — is suspicious “because we’re not allowed to look at this plane to see what it is doing.”
Finally, he admits he wants to see the plane because he thinks something “sinister” could be going on. “I think they are putting barium, aluminum and titanium into the atmosphere,” he says. “I think (VOODOO1) is one of the planes.” His theory for why “they” are putting the metals in the sky: To turn clouds into communications devices. Worldwide. “I think it’s the United Nations, not just the United States,” Mason says.

New Times points out there’s a big problem with this theory: Valley air quality monitors don’t show high concentrations of barium, aluminum and titanium particles in our air. Mason immediately changes the subject. Now he wants to talk about a government program to monitor clouds for the aerosols he believes are being sprayed. He points New Times to a government Web site for something with the ominous-sounding name of “Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign.” He urges us to look at the canister on the wing of an airplane in a picture on the Web site. But there’s nothing remotely scary about the canister, New Times tells him. The site says this equipment collects particles in the air to determine their effect on climate change. That’s a good thing, isn’t it? At that point, Mason grew hysterical and hung up on New Times. He proceeded to write a new comment on the blog post about Pellatt (his fifth? sixth?) claiming we’re a “lost cause.”
Pellatt wrote four comments on the post. In one, she claims we must be either “insane” or “in the paid service of the industrial complex.” In responding to one skeptical reader’s comment that one only need read a physics book to prove “chemtrails” is wrong, Pellatt’s comments show just how far deep she’s in: William, please give me the name of the book that proves there is no aerosol spray program…
Of course, like me, I know you checked into who the author, authors, or organization was that authored and published the book, and then checked them out to make sure they have no ties to the Government, National Science Institute, EPA, NASA, National Weather Service etc. Because we know that NASA – just go to their web pages – is the lead organization in the National Weather Service’s “Weather Modification Program”. That’s public knowledge. It’s only a conspiracy theory in the mind of ignoramuses.

Spiralboxes

Nowhere in any of the 127 comments do the supporters of the chemtrails conspiracy theory offer any evidence of their theory, nor do they even fully outline what that theory is. Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny. Creationists do this all the time, because saying you believe in the vague notion of “intelligent design” sounds a lot less nuts than saying you believe baby dinosaurs rode with Noah on the Ark. Some commenters presented what they see as evidence for the theory. For instance, “Doug” lists “facts” that include an alleged Wall Street Journal article about Russian “weather modification” experiments and the astonishing news that “almost all wildfires have been well documented as burning hotter and with more intensity than at any other time in recorded history.” No evidence is offered for the wildfire claim, which makes sense because the statement collapses under the weight of its own silliness.
What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense. As the picture at the top of this blog post shows, jet contrails have become ubiquitous with the huge increase of air traffic in recent decades of air traffic. The contrails cause more cirrus clouds in the sky, which trap heat and lead to more warming on the ground. There’s another real problem lurking in jet exhaust: Carbon emissions, which the world’s top scientists say are leading to global warming. Plus, piles of white lines cluttering up what would otherwise be a mostly blue sky could be considered a type of visual pollution — ugly, but not as disturbing as the rumbling noise pollution the engines also put out. But to look at the peaceful contrails floating in the sky most days and perceive them as some kind of death-rain attack by our own government — that’s just sad. — Ray Stern

Zret: The same old system: to defame the researchers, instead of trying to explain. Chemtrails are real and poisonous! Shame on you for this garbage.

Russell: It really is astonishing and sickening that large numbers of people will believe stuff like this despite the complete lack of evidence. In this day and age, the existence of people so gullible as to fall for outlandish drivel like “chemtrails” brings a tear to my eye. I blame the American “education” system for failing to perform its stated job in science education.

I. M. Looney: I had my carpets cleaned by ChemTrail and they came out great . . . oh wait, that was ChemDry. Maybe there WAS something in that cleaning solution!

Alan: Ray, At first I thought you were just an asshole. Thanks for proving it! “What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense.”
Explain my first sighting which took place in NYC on a very warm, dry summer day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaRVA1HKLiM  I find it hard to believe that only a handful of jet aircraft out of hundreds would leave such persistent contrails. Where’s your science now? You should have left well enough alone but you have challenged and insulted people who actually give a damn about our planet. Your dismissive attitude is self-serving and demeaning. I’m sure that you will be hearing from many more credible people on this subject!

Anon: Ever heard of Occam’s Razor? The simplest explanation is usually the best? After watching the fascinating youtube video, I have reached the conclusion that contrails are left behind by bored pilots playing tic-tac-toe.

Joya: Ray, You obviously have not witnessed, as I have, jets leaving normal contrails, which evaporate quickly, and planes spraying chemtrails, which last for hours, flying directly above me, at the same time. You have not witnessed, as I have, 3-4 Chemtrail planes for hours, flying, spraying then turning around and spraying some more and doing this all day long, in a sporadic and criss-cross patterns.
You have obviously not witnessed, as I have, heavy chemtrail spraying in an area without heavy commercial air traffic. You obviously have not experienced, as I have, the smell of these chemicals on heavy spray days, as I have and the pink rainbow like haze that they leave. Why also are there days now and then when there are no chemtrails, pure blue sky, yet there are contrails from regular commercial jets? You might want to do some eyewitnessing before writing your articles.

hepa

Why Not Test Yourself?: Ray, Do the hepa filter testing you have been advised to undertake by many people who wrote in response to the other article. It is not hard to do. Put the unit outside. Cut the filter after use underneath a lined sky into three pieces. Send each to a separate lab. What is so hard about that? I know you deem such totally unnecessary, because you are absolutely confident you have your answers already. But wouldn’t it be reeeeally something if the results you receive aren’t in reasonable harmony with air quality stats supplied by the, “official,” sources? There is no shortage of wild-eyed people on board the chemtrail train. Some people will latch on to something for dear life, and make it into a life itself, entertaining the most outlandish tangents. You’ve undoubtedly run across a number. But then there are the clear-eyed, exceedingly practical, and pragmatic. Who work for the so-called military industrial complex. Who know for a fact that aluminum and barium are injected in the atmosphere, by jet aircraft and on an on-going basis, in the interest of vastly improved satellite communications. If you do the testing, you will come across results that must be explained. There will be a direct disconnect between the data you will hold in your hands and that received by the standard sources you and nearly everyone else have come to rely upon for the safeguard of health. Please don’t dismiss what I’ve told you. If you assume that such particle dispersal may be taking place and that it’s O.K. because the government knows what it is doing, you need to know the amounts/percentages that end up in blood streams go far beyond the maximum toxic limits allowable. Alzheimer’s (aluminum directly linked) has risen, is striking younger people on a wider basis, and you will see yet wider swaths of populace segments regarding age spread occurring. Now it is possible that in the near future, with enough independent testing and enough of a ruckus raised, that such maximum allowable toxic limits may be changed upward to accommodate this new reality. But that would not alter the health effects.

Old Scientist : Skepticism is healthy. An open mind is as well, providing it is not leaking like a sieve. To find the balance is the key. Apply the scientific method. Don’t take any official experts’ word on this subject. Don’t take conspiracy theorists’ words on this subject. Physical evidence of particles is easily enough apprehended on an individual basis as long as you have a little $ to apply to the task. The patents for utilizing same are currently readily available from the U.S. Patent Office. Putting it all together is the tricky part. My own assessment is that the thirst for expanded knowledge and control have yielded yet more compromise in the the long-term health of the public as a whole and a perceptible downgrade in the immediate environmental quality of life for all. Just as the soldiers at the Smokey test in the Nevada desert weren’t told the truth, and denial by officialdom continued until the very last person died of leukemia, so it will be about the projects over the heads of Americans, and results that are already appearing today.

sebringcoupe: “It really is astonishing and sickening that large numbers of people will believe stuff like this despite the complete lack of evidence. In this day and age, the existence of people so gullible as to fall for outlandish drivel like “chemtrails” brings a tear to my eye. I blame the American “education” system for failing to perform its stated job in science education.”
It is really astonishing and sickening that you keep attacking us with the same old rhetoric and no solid facts. Stop it with the reverse psychology, it is YOU who is not providing the facts. Show us some INDEPENDENT sources that this in fact contrails (national institutes DO NOT count). And I like that word “outlandish” sounds like it is directly ripped from mainstream sources due to your lack of originality when it comes to childish insults.
To the propagandistic… erm I mean journalist: You are never going to debunk this if you keep coming off as a self absorbed prick, you must make a killing lying to the public. Once again you show you cannot stand actual thinking people so you resort to more rhetoric. You even stepped it up a few levels calling everyone who did their homework and ACTUALLY researched it (unlike yourself) dumb. What kind of journalism is this? You still have YET to provide facts but merely Bill O’Reilly style insults to your readers. Fortunately not ALL buy into this abusive propaganda. OH I know what’s next, you are going to completely ignore the facts again and continue to insult people. You are oh so too predictable. This is one topic you should have left alone if you cannot handle the pressure from it. @ I-M LOONEY: After that comment it sounds like you guzzled down that bottle of carpet cleaner. Better lay off that stuff it might cause you to leave comments that make absolutely no sense… oh wait.

 joya : Ray, you must be on the US Gov Dept. of Propaganda payroll and if you aren’t…. well then…you’re giving it away for free. and to russell: I have a degree from one of the Top 6 Science Universities in the world. If I have an orange and and someone tells me it’s an apple, I don’t need to prove it’s an orange, I just know!

Deb Tamb : Why would harmful aerosols and any toxins be released over/around my homeplace? I DON’T KNOW! That would be way too kooky! So, you “chemtrail skeptics” please consider the concerns of those who can not stop looking up at our beloved sky. I am certainly interested/curious about any aspects of this blatant weather manipulation but do not label me a conspiracy theorist!! Even if I’d never noticed a “chemtrail”,the resulting sky is absolutely undeniable. From my backyard and neighborhood I’m seeing the sky from around this location: at less than 20 miles from Camp David.  At less than 70 miles from D.C.  At less than 7 miles from Lambs Knoll.  At less than 18 miles from Fort Dietrick.  At less than 30 miles from Site R.

John Bonnema : Ray Stern, you remind me so much of the child who would clasp his hands over their eyes and then scream out “you-can’t-see-me!” Na, na, na, naaaa! You’re an ignorant man Ray. You’re only hurting yourself and your loved ones by failing to recognize the blatant poisoning in our skies. Go to 4:15 of this video and if you can tell us this is normal, then we’ll know how much of a feckless dolt you really are. youtube.com/watchv=11J_VopuDXc&feature=related

Clay Milfeld: I want some of what you’re smoking.

Carole Pellatt : Hello Ray, so you couldn’t take the heat of the responses after the last pathetically unscientific article you printed about me. You had to defer people’s attention away from those responses by creating another one. Still haven’t gone to my website have you? No, you’re a forum junkie. Still haven’t read any report on weather modification have you? Still haven’t read “Owning The Weather 2020”, have you? Still haven’t read any weather modification treaties, have you? Still haven’t read even one military budget-obviously. Still haven’t read any patents, have you? Still haven’t done a HEPA filter test, have we? Still haven’t checked the lab reports from air and water samples around the state, have we? Sad, sad, sad. You have nothing to say, nothing to offer anyone that is intelligent on the subject of aerosol experiments, and judging by some of the idiotic comments I see, every other “looney” who uses the term “chemtrails” associated with “conspiracy theory”, knows absolutely nothing about science.

I call it weather modification or electromagnetic experimentation. Chemtrails is your word Ray, not mine. GIVE ME YOUR PROOF RAY. You haven’t done one lick of research. I’ve been pretty cool up until now, but your articles are written like that of a school student who has never studied but is trying to fake a grade. Afraid of real science, are we? You keep saying we offer no proof of aerosol spraying-not chemtrails Ray, what is a chemtrail? I have no idea-only conspiracy theorists like yourself call them chemtrails to distract the public from the overwhelming physical evidence of aerosol spray programs-by the military, NASA,NWS, and the government’s own admissions and documentation.

You have become like a mosquito buzzing in someone’s ear. You have nothing intelligible to say, but your purpose is to try to irritate. That’s not a very nice energy to put out into the world. I don’t understand your hostility, your aggressive language, condescending attitude, and unwillingness to hold a true dialogue with someone purely for the purpose of an exchange of ideas.

Why does it upset you so that people are truly concerned about the poor quality of the air we are forced to breath in this city. And that most of it comes from airplanes? Why does that not even bother you?-That worries me-human to human. Why do you act like you care about nothing genuinely-other than your arguments? These things distress me.

Would you like to know how many people are currently without health insurance in this country? I can tell you. Would you like to know how many more people can’t feed their families because of the mess this economy has been allowed to slip into-partly by a sleeping press? Would you like me to tell you what it’s like for a woman in Bosnia to have to go to the Hague to testify about being a victim of mass torture and rape during the genocide? Would you like me to tell you about RAWA-the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan who bravely hide video cameras under their burkas and film human right abuses, and smuggle the film out of their country so the world may see and understand what’s really going on there? Would you like to know what it’s really like for workers in the industrial parks in China-I’ve been there, I can tell you. Do you know the circumstances that all had to be in place in order for the Rwanda genocide to blaze across that country,ripping it open into a frenzy of violence? And do you wonder what the international community was doing while it was going on? Would you like to know how much ground water in Phoenix has been polluted by corporations? Would you like to know what the number one cause of infant mortality in this country is? (It’s new). Would you like to know how many superfund sites there are in this city, state, or country? Do you want to know who learns faster, unilingual or bilingual children? Do you want to have a discussion about the laws of Eminent Domain? Or are these subjects boring or stupid for you to report on.

I mean what are you spending time doing Ray? If it were research, I would have some place to start to call what you have to say an intelligent argument. And I wouldn’t begrudge you our discussion because it would be centered on a subject matter, not on a person. So once again, you quote “comments” as your basis of argument. A verification that you all you want to do is argue Ray. If you wanted to know if there was an aerosol spray program, you would go to official documentation, not people’s “blog” comments. This is how you do your research? And your editors are fine with this?

Well Ray, it’s time to leave me out of this discussion. Direct your inner frustration and aggression elsewhere. If you ever want to truly have a discussion about any of the subjects I’ve mentioned I’m always open for that, but take your dog and pony show elsewhere because you can’t even get the smallest fact right. I am NOT A SCOTTSDALE GUITARIST. I’ve never lived there. Merry Christmas. truly, Carole

Chad : Ray, you have somewhat restored my faith in the progress of humanity. Alan and Joya, however, make me frightened for the future.

As an aside I just want to let people know that, as a scientist, I get a real kick out of peoples’ homemade “experiments.” Putting a HEPA filter outside and then cutting it and sending it to a lab? Really? If you don’t understand the glaringly obvious faults with that experimental method then I feel that there may be too large a gap between you and I that it would be impossible to cross. What a shame.

Ray Stern Carole: The “Scottsdale” part is fixed — I was thinking of your music camp in Scottsdale. I’ll fix any other errors in the article, if you make a good case for why it’s an error.

John Bonnema Thank you Carole for your beautiful website. If I could just say that arguing with ignorance is futile. And to Chad, yet another feckless inane dolt, I’ve already placed HEPA filters outdoors for several hours while they were spraying and then had them tested. Guess what CHAD? They came back positive for high than normal levels of both barium and aluminum oxide and a polymer substance the lab could not identify. Go put you head back in the sand with Ray and the rest of your ilk CHAD! Go now! And you’re a scientist are you? That’s a joke, right? Breathe deep CHAD and enjoy the poisons, they’re free.

AnonymousWhat a disappointment to read such an angry and fearful article. I have personally read many well-written articles and research on the aerosol program. It’s hard to believe that in the year 2008, after years of weather modification, that someone could be so filled with anger at what people see and know. The people writing to you are concerned about fall-out period. Farmers are concerned about ionospheric modification for good and sane reason. Their required soil tests for acid-alkaline balancing have shown terrifically high levels of aluminum and barium. They watch the particulate fallout after the aerosol tankers grid the skies above their land. High levels of aluminum in the Adirondack’s waterways are a concern of scientists. Acid rain studies have been very costly, and sulfur dioxide drift has been a chronic problem. Now aluminum toxicity. The world wide aerosol program or “sun dimming” is not made public because the mass reaction would not be positive. Scientists and military are under contract for 20 or more years after retirement. The threat of a $10,000 fine, a prison sentence, and loss of pension is enough to keep anyone quiet. Forgive me for my personal criticism, I am not personally involved with you, but you need to get in touch with your unfocused anger. It’s not the citizens, their concerns and knowledge that you’re angry about.

AlanRay, why haven’t you posted my last comment? It was a response to Chad’s disrespectful comment made about Joya and myself. Are you into censorship as well? Can’t take the heat? Alan

Rosario Marcianò The smoking gun! Controlled aerosol over the cities. Chemtrails! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRtITzZbBM&fmt=18 

DaveThis guy is a hack. Even admits to doing minimal research and obviously had his mind made up. If you can look up at the sky while Chemtrails are being sprayed, say that it is normal, then you are in denial or just plain dumb. Also, there are mainstream reports about very high levels, illegal levels of Barium from the Chemtrails. Suck on this Ray…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI “Local news station confirms barium in chemtrails”. BOGUS.

Another great source for info: http://www.bariumblues.com/index.htm Warning, Ray may find the information hard to understand. BOGUS.

Doubting ThomasI met a guy this summer who was absolutely convinced of the conspiracy behind Chemtrails. As proof, he told me to look it up on Youtube. I told him that I would only trust proof provided by People magazine and left it at that. So in a nutshell, I have to say I agree with what Chad said and I would add that everyone take the time to look up the following terms: Confirmation Bias – Scientific Method – Full Disclosure – Peer Review – Baloney Detection Kit – and most importantly – True Believer Syndrome

AuroraThank you Carol for standing up for your truth and thank you all of you that take this seriously. There is so many sleep walking people in the world and I’m wondering if there is a conspiracy going on to numb people.  Someone said that what’s happening above our heads is one of the greatest crimes against humanity. A lot of people are in for a rude awakening when the truth comes out…. Please read the following article: “Germany becomes the First Country to admit Clandestine Chemtrails Operations” (debunked as a vicious mis-translation) For all those activists who have been investigating and reporting on clandestine government operations around the world to manipulate our weather patterns, this news from Germany is groundbreaking. The TV news report states that “the military planes of the German Federal Army are manipulating our climate; this is what the weather researchers are presuming and their suspicions are confirmed… “We can state with a 97% certainty that we have on our hands chemical trails (chemtrails) comprised by fine dust containing polymers and metals, used to disrupt radar signals.” “This is their main purpose, but I was surprised that this artificial cloud was so wide-spread. The radar images are stunning considering the needed tons of dispersed elements — although, the federal army claims that only small amounts of material were propagated. The military heads claim that the substances used are not harmful.” “In the United States of America there are protest after protest for many years now, against these military operations and now people are mobilising in Germany as well. Per example JOHANNES REMMEL of the Greens. “It’s obvious that enormous regions are being polluted with clandestine actions, but all of this has to be made public. The government must provide explanations to the unsuspecting population.” This is a very significant development in the battle to find out why our governments are spraying chemicals into our atmosphere, however it is only the tip of the iceberg. As far as researchers have been able to conclude, chemical spraying by our governments have been in full operation since mid-to-late 1990’s (possibly earlier). The following video presentation is a great introduction to chemtrails and some of its possible implications: Aerosol Crimes (1:39:23). Right now we can only speculate as to what type of chemicals are used in these operations, however one thing is certain, if we saw a car driving down the road, spewing out a plume of smoke the way these planes are doing we would be very concerned. Considering that half the species in the world could be wiped out due to global warming, the least we could do is to demand that our governments explain what it is that they are spraying us with, specially if military heads are claiming “that the substances used are not harmful”. As we know, when the militaries of the world say we have nothing to be concerned about then we have everything to be concerned about. Keep in mind that chemtrails have been categorized as an “exotic weapons systems” by the 107th CONGRESS of the United States in House Bill H. R. 2977. Further information on chemtrails at educate-yourself.org http://www.chycho.com/?q=chemtrails BOGUS

M. Richard Chad, as a “Scientist” maybe you could explain Ionospheric Modification to your friends. You must be familiar with the Weather Modification Bill from 2001 that originally coined the term chemtrails. What type of Atmospheric Science do you study? You could be involved in a comprehension study for your age group. Sometimes the youngest children have a need to argue any subject, just to be “right”. It’s relative to passive/aggressive behavioral disorder. Something in common with Ray? Hope your not an Environmental Epidemiologist who studies cluster groups of fallout victims.

New Orleans Wake Up Club Good Folks, time to move on. Yet a second article; this definitely a distraction. Don’t waste your time and energy. The old saw to stay away from argumentative, close-minded people applies. Like so many things, waking people up is a numbers game. An experienced salesman knows that every, “no,” leads that much closer to a, “yes.” And Moves On. Know when to fold a hand and walk. Attempt to focus your efforts, stay away from diversion, and make your shots count for as much as is possible. You are fishing for those who are slated To Know. Not everybody, by a long shot, is. Drop your seeds, do a bit of watering. If signs of progress appear, pay a bit more attention. But keep it fluid and moving in any case.

sKind of like the proponents of the theory that the physiology of a cell is determined by the cell’s genetic material. Or the theory that the universe was created out of nothing by a “big bang”. You will object, but when I tried to ask some scientists about it, they “immediately became evasive and tried to change the topic”.

In response to this quote from the article: “Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny.”

Geoengineering : It also appears that we ‘Chemtrail’ investigators have been chasing our tails, being intentionally discredited, maligned, and fed disinformation to keep the actual truth just below the levels of media perception. The real story has been taking place in broad daylight, safely concealed under the scientific umbrella of ‘Geoengineering and intentional climate change.’ Chemtrails are just one of the ‘mitigations’ proposed to Geoengineering our planet. Once we began sifting through the numerous studies, experiments and papers written on intentional climate change, we found a wealth of supporting evidence of well funded global atmospheric modification programs. One such paper is Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project http://www.metatronics.net/lit/geo2.html#two (Jay Michaelson, published in the Stanford Environmental Law Journal, January, 1998) The author makes a very convincing case for the pressing need of undertaking geoengineering projects. He argues that regulation, environmental laws and other stumbling blocks limit our ability to directly address the dangers that threaten us directly and immediately. He writes: “The projected insufficiency of Kyoto’s emission reduction regime, and the problems of absence, cost, and incentives discussed in part II, cry out for an alternative to our present state of climate change policy myopia.” “Geoengineering–intentional, human-directed manipulation of the Earth’s climatic systems–may be such an alternative. This part proposes that, unlike a regulatory “Marshall Plan” of costly emissions reductions, technology subsidies, and other mitigation measures, a non-regulatory “Manhattan Project” geared toward developing feasible geoengineering remedies for climate change can meaningfully close the gaps in global warming and avert many of its most dire consequences.” “In some ways, this phase has already begun, as geoengineering has moved from the pages of science fiction to respectable scientific and policy journals. [FN127] One of the most encouraging proposals today focuses on the creation of vast carbon sinks by artificially stimulating phytoplankton growth with iron “fertilizer” in parts of the Earth’s oceans. [FN128] Another proposal suggests creating miniature, *106 artificial “Mount Pinatubos” by allowing airplanes to release dust particles into the upper atmosphere, simulating the greenhouse- arresting eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991. [FN129]” pp. 105-106, Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project.” In Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion, the N.A.S. found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be BOGUS the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet’s albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere. This method was BOGUS the most cost effective, and yielded the largest benefits. It could also be conducted covertly to avoid the burdens of environmental protection and regulatory entanglements.

It is evident to anyone who cares to look up, that this mitigation is now being conducted worldwide and on a daily basis. It is certain that our leaders have already embarked on an immense geoengineering project; one in which they expect millions of human fatalities, and consider these to be acceptable losses. This landmark study; the widespread experimentation BOGUS and published papers of atmospheric theorists and scientists, combined with the visual evidence that atmospheric mitigations are being conducted in our skies, clearly shows that Chemtrail spraying has became a preferred solution to global warming mitigation. The evidence is all around us. For example; this past week Boeing Aircraft received an enormous initial order from the Pentagon for 100 Boeing 767 tanker planes, to begin replacing the Air Force’s aging fleet of KC-135s, the most commonly seen chemtrail spray plane BOGUS. The final order will exceed 500 planes. There has been no mention of the usage of these aircraft. Geoengineering is being carried on Earth on a staggering scale, without the impediment of environmental laws or regulatory constraints. This grand experiment is being conducted in full view, while being concealed in plain sight.

I finally found “the” smoking gun. You can ridicule me as much as you want. But I forgot about this one website and found it. This is a site with 1000’s of collected declassified docs. He has made it his niche. He started it when he was 15 and is now 26. On just about any subject. Especially what we like to cuss and discuss here. www.theblackvault.com… . This “smoking gun” is actually a book. It is called: “Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaption, and the Science Bases”. Where the conclusion by the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research is the most effective global warming method of mitigation (corrective) is the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing, commercial, military, and private aircraft. These were the “Policy Implications”. They spray it into the stratosphere- www.en.wikipedia.org… For those who need an explanation of exactly where that is. Here is the link to that article- “The Chemtrail Smoking Gun-Proof of Global Geoengineering Projects. www.lightwatcher.com… Here is another one.- Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project. www.metatronics.net… Or, you can just go to blackvault.com and check it out. Bunch of links. Actually, their first one, was shooting 1900 1b. bullets into the atmosphere, they even have all the costs and everything in this big book. Including, weather balloons with a load of the aluminum, barium powder. There are links to the book, and you can buy it (a little spendy) or, it has links to pages you can read for your scientific research into what has been presented in it. It is considered a “sunscreen” as the inventor of the H bomb, suggested back in the 50″s. There are also other links to investigate for yourself. www.data4science.net…. www.chemtrails911.comwww.anomalies-unlimited.com… One of the guys that was also giving some info, supposedly killed himself. We know what those implications are. Anyway, there ya be. And if the links don’t work, they work through the black vault site, cause I had to dig.
And I have found out too, that the guy was a hoax that called it “Project Cloverleaf”. Who knows, they just don’t want us to know what they are doing to us and they will intentionally say people are a hoax when they aren’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4 blacklinehttp://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page836.html  World Needs Climate Emergency Backup Plan, Says Expert

Lockergnome : In submitted testimony to the British Parliament, climate scientist Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution said that while steep cuts in carbon emissions are essential to stabilizing global climate, there also needs to be a backup plan. Geoengineering solutions such as injecting dust into the atmosphere are risky, but may become necessary if emissions cuts are insufficient to stave off catastrophic warming. He urged that research into the pros and cons of geoengineering be made a high priority.“We need a climate engineering research and development plan, in addition to strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions” testified Caldeira, a faculty member of the Carnegie Institution’s Department of Global Ecology in Stanford, California, at an inquiry on geoengineering convened by the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee of the House of Commons on November 10. “Prudence demands that we consider what we might do in the face of unacceptable climate damage, which could occur despite our best efforts to rein in greenhouse gas emissions,” he said. Climate engineering (or geoengineering) refers to controversial proposals to deliberately modify the Earth’s environment on a large scale, primarily to counteract greenhouse warming. One scheme would cool the planet by injecting dust into the upper atmosphere to scatter incoming sunlight. Other possibilities include enhancing cloud cover over the oceans. Critics question the effectiveness of these schemes and worry that tampering with the Earth’s systems would create as many problems as they solve. But others warn that currently accelerating carbon emissions may push the planet’s climate system to a tipping point, making drastic measures necessary to prevent an environmental calamity. “Science is needed to address critical questions, among them: How effective would various climate engineering proposals be at achieving their climate goals? What unintended outcomes might result? How might these unintended outcomes affect both human and natural systems?” said Caldeira. “Engineering is needed both to build deployable systems and to keep the science focused on what’s technically feasible.” Caldeira advocates a university-based research effort involving scientists and engineers representing a range of disciplines. “A climate engineering research plan should be built around important questions rather than preconceived answers,” he advised the committee. “It should anticipate and embrace innovation and recognize that a portfolio of divergent but defensible paths is most likely to reveal a successful path forward; we should be wary of assuming that we’ve already thought of the most promising approaches or the most important unintended consequences.” “Only fools find joy in the prospect of climate engineering. It’s also foolish to think that risk of significant climate damage can be denied or wished away,” he said. “Perhaps we can depend on the transcendent human capacity for self-sacrifice when faced with unprecedented, shared, long-term risk, and therefore can depend on future reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. But just in case, we’d better have a plan.”

Geoengineering : http://www.chemtrails911.com/archive_photos/00_Satellite%20Imagery/00_Satellite%20Imagery.htm

CathyAnother disinfo article to mislead folks away from the truth: chemtrails are real and anyone with half a brain who is willing to look up can see them. http://sonomachemtrails.blogspot.com/

DougCongratulations Ray, you succeeded in proving my initial assessment of you as being 100% correct. Once again, you have chosen to use your grade school reporting skills to attack the people who wrote in, rather than address the issues or the facts presented. You are truly a hack and a whack job as a so called reporter (sic) – your credibility level is zero! Your previous blog space was filled with over 120 responses mostly by those who have spent more than a few minutes truly researching the facts. Yet you picked and chose only those items you thought you could refute! What a shame that New Times has relegated itself to the level of a cheap rag magazine. Since you obviously are unaware of what a “conspiracy” is, let me educate you assuming your IQ level is above a single digit – conspiracy Noun pl -cies
1. a secret plan to carry out an illegal or harmful act
2. the act of making such plans
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

Since what is being done with “chemtrails” is “in your face” and openly being done for all to see, and thus NOT secret; then the term conspiracy does not apply now does it? Neither does the term theory since there are way too many documented facts. Yet you chose one person to contact of all those who replied to your article (or more succinctly personal attack) to question, then jump up and down when the person could not provide you the answers you demanded. Cheap theatrical hack reporting. Here’s a name to contact – how about Clifford Carnicom (http://www.carnicom.com/) – I am sure he can provide you with more than ample answers to your diatribe! How about the Congressmen and women as well as Senators who introduced Bills in Congress to make weather mitigation legal or chemtrailing illegal? Guess you didn’t have the testicular fortitude to go there did you?

You make the claim (and I will quote you on this verbatim): “Nowhere in any of the 127 comments do the supporters of the chemtrails conspiracy theory offer any evidence of their theory, nor do they even fully outline what that theory is. Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny.”

Guess either you cannot read or are incapable or incompetent in reading what was written. Yet you fully described YOUR tactics perfectly! How much evidence do you need to validate what is being seen? How about the documentation showing “off the scale” readings of aluminum, barium, manganese and iron – which I am sure the authors of that blog would be more than willng to send you if you even had thought about asking for it? How about all the other sites detailing the Congressional bills and government programs (HAARP – DARPA) in place affecting weather and what they use to do it – or how about the manufacturers of materials used for weather control. I guess one has to be objective instead of stupid to look beyond their own preconceived notions that you and your management espouse. Pity!

Here’s another of your comments: “Some commenters presented what they see as evidence for the theory. For instance, “Doug” lists “facts” that include an alleged Wall Street Journal article about Russian “weather modification” experiments and the astonishing news that “almost all wildfires have been well documented as burning hotter and with more intensity than at any other time in recorded history.”
“No evidence is offered for the wildfire claim, which makes sense because the statement collapses under the weight of its own silliness. “

Below are several easily available articles clearly stating the condition and facts that wildfires ARE burning hotter and with more intensity – took me all of .14 seconds to find those Ray in a Google search!

“What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense. As the picture at the top of this blog post shows, jet contrails have become ubiquitous with the huge increase of air traffic in recent decades of air traffic. The contrails cause more cirrus clouds in the sky, which trap heat and lead to more warming on the ground.”

True about the trails causing cirrus clouds which trap heat – I’ll give you that one – but then again it is well known – especially if you understand how they are formed. Considering that air traffic is pretty much constant on a daily basis, and there are FAA regulations clearly stating the rules of flight, one would have to be a complete moron not to notice the clear violations of both airspace and patterns flown – but of course you have to go outside and observe – that is called investigating Ray – try it some time!

Since you obviously lack the ability to research the truth; here are several articles listed below which were found in less than 20 seconds time – including the Wall Street article you claim is alleged! Sloppy job there Ray!

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-LikOkTsyYqSaQA8Za0tzA9H9aaY5ARuZ?p=24

http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1694.cfm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/25/MNUUSVEFP.DTL

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=0028

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6983960.stm

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1043621.html

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FR138

Did you look further into the articles located above about hotter fires you state do not exist: Seeing a pattern here Ray? Below is excerpted from a fire site clearly defining what happens when you introduce aluminum into a fire – see the correlation Ray? Or is that beyond your mental capabilities? Notice the inference to extreme weather below Ray! Is any of this making sense to you yet? Combustion is the chemical reaction that feeds on a fire more heat and allows it to continue. When the fire involves burning metals like lithium, magnesium, aluminum etc.(known as a class-D fire in the American fire classification system), it becomes even more important to consider the energy release. The metals react faster with water than with oxygen and thereby more energy is released. Putting water on such a fire result in the fire getting hotter or even exploding because the metals react with water in an exothermic reaction. Therefore, inert agents (eg dry sand) must be used to break the chain reaction of metallic combustion. The fire square is a model created by fire ecologist Richard W. Halsey. It shows how catastrophic wild fires, like the 2003 Cedar Fire, are formed. It includes the three original elements from the Fire Triangle, but adds an extra side, showing Extreme Weather as another important element. Extreme weather is however affecting the fuel side of the triangle giving more easily pyrolysed materials, and also the heat side of the triangle. This means that the original triangle accounts also for the extreme weather situation. Now one last thing, lets look at your comments (now how did you state it – oh yeah) – “What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense.” Vapor trails – contrails – heat vapors – created when heat is introduced into a humid cold condition. Simple physics really – like when you breathe out on a very cold day – one sees a vapor trail for a few seconds before it disappears. Much like the contrails in the sky which dissipate behind a jet within a couple of minutes when the same hot gases are quickly cooled and integrated into the cold air mass. Ever look up from under your desk Ray and see the jets in the air that leave a true contrail? Ever notice jets leaving trails that expand and spread – or how about those that are left in “puffs” – oh let me guess – they must turn the engines on and off in flight to get that effect right! Ray, you are suffering from a terminal case of cranial anal suffucatus! You truly are a hack – you do not deserve to write – let alone be published! New Times has scraped the proverbial bottom of the barrel in hiring a hack like you – but unlike you, the facts have been presented before you were labeled who and what you are – too bad you didn’t make the same attempt at credible reporting.

I guess your choice to block my repeated attempts to respond to your comments clearly shows you are willing to avoid rebuttals to your lies! Says a whole lot about who and what you are truly all about!

mcSay Ray, maybe it’s time for you to open your eyes and look up. Since you’re in the profession of reporting what you see, it may be that you are slacking in your responsibility of reporting the truth to the public. Your eyes don’t lie. Not everybody is dumbed down. You can fool most of the people most of the time, but not all the people all the time. To sum it up, it’s time to do your homework and rightfully earn your salary.

GeoengineeringGeoengineering is defined as the deliberate modification of Earth’s environment on a large scale, “to suit human needs and promote habitability”. Wikipedia
Potential geoengineering options from the IPCC: Reforest 28.7 Mha of economically or environmentally marginal crop and pasture lands and nonfederal forest lands to sequester 10% of U.S. CO2 emissions. Place 50,000 100-km2 mirrors in the earth’s orbit to reflect incoming sunlight. Use guns or balloons to maintain a dust cloud in the stratosphere to increase the sunlight reflection. Place billions of aluminized, hydrogen-filled balloons in the stratosphere to provide a reflective screen. Use aircraft to maintain a cloud of dust in the low stratosphere to reflect sunlight. Decrease efficiency of burning in engines of aircraft flying in the low stratosphere to maintain a thin cloud of soot to intercept sunlight. Burn sulfur in ships or power plants to form sulfate aerosol in order to stimulate additional low marine clouds to reflect sunlight. Place iron in the oceans to stimulate generation of CO2-absorbing phytoplankton. Use lasers to break up CFCs in the atmosphere.
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/janet_fleet.html

jr lies

TAX PAYING CITIZENWhen The Army Owns The Weather – Chemtrails & HAARP Author: Bob Fitrakis. Humans have long sought to control the weather. Early people learned how to make fire and modify their micro-environments; rain dances and other rituals to alleviate droughts are part of our folklore. So news that the government is engaged in secret experiments to control the weather should come as no surprise — especially after a long history of “cloud seeding,” “atom splitting” and cloning revelations. In fact, a vast majority of people would be shocked to learn that this orphan of the cold war is still in practice. As the U.S. and former Soviet Union spent trillions of dollars on their militaries, their commitment to mutually assured destruction led to extensive experimentation with the use of weather as a weapon. In 1977, the Saturday Review cited a CIA report hinting that the U.S. government already had the power to massively manipulate the weather for war purposes. As the Soviet Union disintegrated, a 1993 Isvestia article suggested the U.S. might want to partner with the Russians in peddling their top-secret technology to the world. Oleg Klugin, a high-ranking KGB officer, bragged of his involvement in geophysical weapons research to a London newspaper. The grid patterns of jet chemtrails now spotted throughout the Western world are likely the application of these technologies to new military and civilian uses. The military is not attempting to hide its long-term goals. “Weather is a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025” is a white paper that can be found on a Pentagon-sponsored website. The paper’s abstract reads: “In 2025, U.S. aerospace forces can ‘own the weather’ by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies towards fighting applications. Such a capability offers the war fighters tools to shape the battle space in ways never before possible In the U.S., weather modification will likely become a part of national security policy with both domestic and international applications.” Wired magazine wrote about the paper and extensively quoted physicist Bernard Eastlund in its January 2000 article “Activate Cloud Shield! Zap a Twister!” The article detailed the military’s plan for “made-to-order thunderstorms” and “lightning strikes on demand.” Eastlund managed programs for Controlled Thermal Nuclear Research for the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission from 1966 to 1974; he was a key researcher in the 1980s’ Strategic Space Initiative (aka Star Wars). Since 1996, Eastlund served as CEO and president of Eastlund Scientific Enterprises Corporation. The company boasts on its website that it specializes in “weather modification” and “tornado modification” among other high-tech services. Eastlund considers the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) in Alaska a smaller version of what he envisions for weather modification. In response to Michael Theroux of Borderland Sciences — who asked Eastlund whether the HAARP station could affect the weather — Eastlund replied: “Significant experiments could be performed The HAARP antenna as is it now configured modulates the auroral electrojet to induce ELF waves and thus could have an effect on the zonal winds.” At the Space 2000 Conference and Exposition on Engineering, Construction, Operations and Business in Space, sponsored by the American Society of Civil Engineers, Eastlund outlined his plan for zapping tornados with an electromagnetic radiation beam from the proposed Thunderstorm Solar Powered Satellite he’s developing with the help of the European Space Agency and Jenkins Enterprises. U.S. patent number 6315213, filed on November 13, is described as a method of modifying weather and should concern the public. A scientist from Wright Patterson Air Force Base acknowledges that planes are spraying barium salt, polymer fibers, aluminum oxide and other chemicals in the atmosphere to both modify the weather and for military communications purposes. The patent abstract specifically states: “The polymer is dispersed into the cloud and the wind of the storm agitates the mixture causing the polymer to absorb the rain. This reaction forms a gelatinous substance which precipitates to the surface below. Thus, diminishing the cloud’s ability to rain.” Answering the age-old question, Who’ll stop the rain?: Apparently our government and a few of their closest friends in the military industrial-complex. The emergence of Edward Teller promoting this startling technology is more than scary. (Teller was the father of the H-Bomb and grand promoter of Readi Kilowatt, our perky little radiation friend from the ’50s; one of his bright ideas from the ’50s was to create harbors by nuking our own coastline.) The April 24 New York Times reported that Teller “has promoted the idea of manipulating the Earth’s atmosphere to counteract global warming.” The computer simulations on the use of aluminum oxide to counter global warming come from the Lawrence Livermore Weapons Laboratory, where Teller serves as director emeritus. There should be little doubt that this would be a priority for the government — or for for-profit military contractors. While 2001 was the second-hottest year on record (1998 holds the record as the hottest year), the nine hottest years on record have occurred since 1990. But why would the government conduct anti-global warming experiments in secret? Investigative reporter William Thomas holds that there’s a link between the recent increase in asthma, allergies and upper respiratory ailments and the chemtrail spraying. Sound crazy? Remember, it sounded absurd when reports first came out that the government had conducted radioactivity experiments on U.S. citizens and released radiation from nuclear plants to test the effect on civilian populations. It sounded bizarre when news first filtered out that the government was engaged in the MK-Ultra mind-control experiments using LSD. The CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency admit they were responsible for many of the UFO sightings in the 1950s in order the explain away experimental military technology. From public documents to mainstream news accounts, the record is filled with reports of weather-modifying technology left over from the Cold War. Now we have a right to know what, if anything, the government plans to do with it. Source: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12342

HAARPQuantum Weapons (Part III) Ionospheric Heaters. If you reverse a radio telescope, and use antenna to send out signals instead of receiving, then you could theoretically boil the atmosphere with a focussed and steerable electromagnetic beam. Researchers call this model an “ionospheric heater”.
An Ionospheric Heater could lift targeted areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto earth and penetrate anything. The ionosphere is the electrically-charged sphere surrounding Earth’s upper atmosphere that sits about 40 miles above the Earth’s surface. Currently, there is one known test creation for this super- powerful radiowave- beaming technology, but it is being used for academic reasons (click to enlarge). The High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program, or HAARP, has the goal of changing the ionosphere to improve communications for our own good. In the words of the military, HAARP aims to “exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes.” HAARP is a larger version of ionospheric heaters operating safely throughout the world in places such as Arecibo, Puerto Rico, Tromso, Norway, and the former Soviet Union. Funding for this Alaska based project justifies the research by saying HAARP system could: replace the huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology, be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP, with a more flexible and accurate system, provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military’s own communications systems working, provide a wide area earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of super computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements, be a tool for geophysical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area, and be used to detect incoming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other detection technologies obsolete. This particular Ionospheric Heater can be found at Alaska University’s webpage:
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

Weather manipulations are another aspect of the scalar terrorism which is facing us, and this has in fact been on-going for the past several decades. Weather engineering – steering the jet streams, thus “steering” or “guiding” weather entities. By warming the air in one region, the warm air expands so that it is thinner. Thus the interferometry makes a low pressure area in that region. By gradually moving the “warming region” (by moving the interference zone’s location), the low pressure area is “steered” and its path is determined. By cooling the air in a region, a high pressure area is created, and it is steered in the same fashion. By making multiple highs and lows and adroitly positioning and steering them, the jet streams and other prevailing winds can be entrained, “captured” and steered. This alone allows substantial augmentation and steering of weather effects. Triggering volcanos – by focussing the interference zone inside a volcano to its magma, and steadily depositing additional EM energy in the piezoelectric matter, a buildup of pressure in the volcano is induced. Eventually the volcano will erupt from the increased pressure. If the increase in pressure is applied slowly, the slow increase in pressure will be held longer by the static friction, so that a higher pressure is reached before the volcano erupts. This engenders a large and violent eruption, with consequently greater ejection and distant dispersion of ash, lava, and other debris.

Blasting away with explosions – all sorts of “patterns” of EM energy — glowing spheres, hemispheres, etc. — can be produced and these can be used against various targets, either for electrical and electronic destruction or for electromagnetic explosions of these balls of energy once they contact the intended target

Triggering earthquakes – by depositing the extra interferometry energy in a fault zone location, the increased piezoelectric activity will also result in increased stress in the rocks, thereby inducing an earthquake when the rocks finally slip. By adjusting the rate at which the excess energy is added, the size of the resulting earthquake can also be changed.

Direct Killing – by inducing repeatedly pulsed negative energy in an area containing living animals or humans, the animals or humans can be directly killed. Strong pulsing will result in rather instant death, where the bodies drop limply, with not even a nerve cell firing thereafter. Everything living cells, microbes, viruses, whatever in the struck bodies is killed instantly, and the bodies do not decay, even over a month or more. The Soviets tested such weaponry in this mode against two Afghan villages in their own war in Afghanistan, and it is probable that the Yakuza is now able to produce portable weapons with this capability.

Killing underground or underwater – since the longitudinal EM waves used in the interferometry of a scalar interferometer easily penetrate Faraday shields, the ocean, the earth, etc., such weapons are very useful in attacking deep underground targets and facilities and destroying them or wreaking damage.

Triggering nuclear powerplant meltdown – the use of a more portable scalar interferometer to destroy the electronic controls of a normal or nuclear power plant from a distance is obvious. With nuclear power plants this poses the risk of a melt down. Electrical controls for pipe valves, etc. are also vulnerable; the storage of spent nuclear fuel rods is largely underwater in pools on normal power plant sites. If the water is drained from those pools, the rods will heat up and again a melt down condition or very hazardous venting of radioactivity can ensue

Wiping out electronics & power grids – large electronic complexes such as switching and control systems, centralized control systems for power grids and substations, etc. are deadly vulnerable to scalar interferometry attack, by either long range or short range interferometers.

Targeting infrastructure
Chemical plants, refineries, fuel storage sites, tank farms, etc. are also deadly vulnerable to scalar interferometry, including portable attack.

Sinking tankers – liquid natural gas ships, oil tankers, etc. are also highly vulnerable to scalar interferometry attack.

Carole PellattA FINAL MESSAGE ABOUT ENERGY. Hello everyone, it’s been quite an intense week. A week of tug-of-war, push and pull, and battles of words. This message is about energy. How we direct our energy. And how we conserve it. Most of you who know of my work-music, photos, or research, know of my dedication to the discipline of constant reading, learning, and practicing. A large part of what I do is pass information along. I try to connect people with concepts.
I have sent my photo essays to literally hundreds of members of the press, city, state and federal officials. This is something we must continually be doing. Someone once asked me, “What’s the point of doing all this when nothing is really going change?”. That’s a legitimate question. The answer is, “I do it because I have to.” Victory is not a prerequisite for doing the right thing and speaking up against injustices.
This week Ray Stern decided to pick up one of my essays and write a post about it for everyone to see. Point number one is that he decided to say something about a subject which is very heated. Many of us didn’t like what he had to say and wished he would have thought otherwise. I kind of wish he would have been a little kinder in expressing his point of view, and used less antagonistic words, but we all have our own style. However, I think that would have made this more of a discussion or a dialogue than an argument-which goes nowhere. Nonetheless, I can’t name another reporter that picked up this story this week, and put it in the forefront.
Simply put, you can’t definitively prove aerosol spray programs exist in the “comments section” of a blog. Nor can you do it in one or two or three conversations. It takes years of research to understand the immense nature of geo-engineering, military technology, the facets of government that function independently from our public understanding, and then start to assemble minute pieces of the puzzle.
You have to be dedicated to the fact that something is wrong in order to spend vast amounts of time reading and studying 600 page reports with titles such as, “National Defense Authorization Act”, the Congressional Research Service paper on “High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse and High Power Microwave Devices”, “Title II Research Budget”, “Army Test Resources Master Plan”, “Microwave Symposium”, “Department of Defense/Management Issues Related to Chaff”, Naval War College reports; “Space Forces Support For the Joint Forces, Desert Storm, Who’s in Charge?”, “Progress In Space Acquisition”, “Program Acquisition Costs”,etc.
Most people don’t want to read obscure medical papers such as “Elevated Silver, Barium, and Strontium, in Antlers, Vegetation, and Soils Sourced From CWD Cluster Areas: Do Piezoelectric Crystals Represent the Transmissible Pathogenic Agent in TSE’s?” by Mark Purdey.
Then there’s scientific reports like, “Gravitobiology” by Lt. Col. T.E. Beardon, “H.A.A.R.P. Applications And Research” , “Science Board Task Force On Directed Energy Weapons”, “DARPA Statement”, “Viability of Directed Energy”, etc. There’s an endless list of geo-engineering reports; “Department Of Defense Weather Programs”, “Benign Weather Modification” from the Airforce School, “Decision Making In A Precipitation Management Program”, “Summer Runoff Increases by Weather Modification”, “Weather Modification-A Fire Control Tool”, “The Use Of Highly Charged Hygroscopic Drops For Fog Dispersal”, “The Airborne Seeding of Six Tornados”, “Airborne Jet Seeder Solution Burner”, “How Weather Engineering Will Ease The Energy Crises”, “Cloud Seeding From Space By High Altitude Rockets”, “How Silver Iodide Supresses Hail”, “Black Clouds and Silver Iodide: Public Safety and Weather Modification Law”, “The Weather Modification Research Program of NOAA”, “National Cloud Seeding Operation 1976-1977”, “(1980) NOAA’S New Trust In Weather Modification” and, “History of Planned Weather Modification Activities And Research At The Illinois State University 1947-1978”
This list represents a fraction of the reading involved in order to truly understand what is going on with the earth and how many seemingly unrelated phenomenon are connected. Call me old fashioned, I read books. I also have discussions with scientists of many disciplines from many countries. I may agree or disagree with them, but I engage them in long conversations in order to understand how they came to their conclusions. I also watch 3-5 University lectures a week from Universities all over the country on a variety of topics. There is information everywhere beyond mainstream. This is also why it takes years to put the big picture together. There is no quick fix.
One thing I don’t generally don’t do is get information from the internet. The internet was breached as a source of verifiable information a long time ago. Cutting and pasting, counterfeiting, recycling, rumors and accusations, mire the availability of indisputable facts. Scientific libraries have been pillaged, information and statistics have been altered and newbies who go to the internet for “research” have no idea what they are getting themselves into.
All this to refocus on our energy.
What happened this week was a good thing. We have seen that if you persist in expressing what you believe to be true, though 2000 people may ignore you, someone will eventually pay attention. And I have to say that during the long road of my research and activism, the universe has sent many carriers of information into my life. Some have carried my message further because they were in agreement, and other have disagreed.
I think we are living in a world of high stress and frustration and the internet offers a dubious medium for us to direct our daily frustrations at each other under the cover of anonymity. We do and say things to each other that we would never do if we were eye to eye. It’s like flipping someone off in your car.
To everyone who feels there’s something wrong in the sky-or anywhere else-let’s continue to make contact with the media. Let’s continue to write, to speak, to march, to photograph, to paint, to teach.
Ray Stern believes what he believes and it’s not up to me to twist his arm and “make” him see what I see. An apt expression is “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” ( I am in no way implying you are a horse, Ray). How much energy do we want to divert from research, activism, creativity and just plain living to stop and make a horse drink?
Thanks again Ray for making this subject a public forum and for taking the hits for disagreeing. Thank you everyone for your support. truly, carole

Dave MasonThis is Dave Mason from Southern California, and I was not going to respond to the BLOG…& the reason for not responding to Ray “The Debunker” Stern was that I succeeded in getting my message out. I WON RAY. and Carole, Thank you for the inspiration! I was painted one way – BUT, I know the truth of that conversation. Your Venom spewed, but I knew what I was dealing with. Thanks for telling my story and waking people up. The feedback has been so positive that WE are getting answers. And This is just the beginning… People, I hope our military is not spraying US — and that means you reading this. I truly hope that secret agents using jumbo jets to spray the whole world with toxins for some nefarious purpose is ludicrous…But the day I stop asking questions is the day I die. Got It. – And I will continue to fight for the planet. And WE will win! God Bless US all.

onedeepquite the biased, arrogant (and laughably incorrect)article. Big words for someone that is dead wrong, and CLEARLY has done zero research. Sounds like you’re out to just mock people instead of knowing the truth. I feel bad for people in such close minded, self absorbed bubbles. At any rate, I think the open minded intellectuals have owned you enough in here, so Ill leave it be…

DouglasMr. Stern, I recently read your feckless attempt at real journalism with your alleged Chemtrail rebuttal. I was one of the ones that commented, with documentation references, in the first round of blogs regarding your initial article. I’m really somewhat surprised at your rebuttal article, especially since there was so much good, credible, verifiable documentation to the contrary in the blogs based on your original article – even though you blindly claim there was not. In spite of your claims that there were no good documentation, you apparently also chose not to research any of them, shameful for someone that calls themselves a journalist. Moreover, I think you added to your incompetence and willful ignorance by adding that those of us that believe in the facts clearly supporting Creationism are just as guilty as those believing in the indisputable facts supporting chemtrails. To me, that’s a pretty shameful excuse for journalism. I thought that journalists were supposed to shed light on the truth, not be shills for those that would hide it or misrepresent it or in many cases, outright lie about it. Such is the case at hand. Because you failed to research the easily obtainable supporting documentation in the first article, I will provide verbatim excerpts of the October 2, 1992 Wall Street Journal article regarding the Elate Technologies’ weather modification project. I’d be glad to send you a copy of the article if you’d like. The article, authored by Adi Ignatius, was titled “Rain, Rain, Go Away, Go Soak Someone Less Willing to Pay; Moscow Firm Offers ‘Weather Made to Order’; Our Man Requests Three Days,” pages A1 and A11.  A small Russian company, Elate Technologies, Inc., using the “electrostatics” of an antenna array consisting of “dozens of aerials, each 25 feet tall, that discharged electrical energy upward to react with the ions of the air,” cleared a 200-mile radius during a drizzly day. The company promises “weather made to order” in the field of “weather extortion” and claims it can “fine-tune weather patterns over a 200-mile range. The company’s commercial director asked the author, “Do you remember that strong wind in Moscow two days ago? We created that.” This company was using HAARP technology that is referenced in another credibly documented article, authored by researcher Mark Farmer, in the September 1995 Popular Science, titled “Mystery in Alaska, The Secret Agenda of a Military Project in Alaska.” In this easily obtainable document,the author states that this technology can be used “heating regions of the lower and upper ionosphere” and for “manipulating local weather.” Pardon my digression away from the issue at hand – chemtrails – but I just wanted to educate you, since you chose not to inform yourself, on some easily obtainable documentation on the very-real fact of weather modification. I live a couple hours north of Phoenix but go there often. Often enough to view the readily recognizable chemtrails that are being intentionally sprayed in the skies and those that are harmless, quickly dissipating contrails. The same ones that I watched over the past several days, and am watching as I write this, from here up north. You folks that refuse to see them or the difference and then refuse to do even a modicum of research are willingly ignorant and that’s a real travesty. Sheeple. Mr. Stern, there’s really no excuse for your shoddy uninformed journalism. In my view, you are one of Communist Lenin’s “useful idiots.” Why don’t you get in touch with Mr. Ignatius or Mr. Farmer and discuss the finer points of educated, informed journalism. And those of us that know the truth will continue to spread it, taking up the slack for those of you that claim to be journalists, and for whatever reason refuse to see it or write about it. Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

NikolaiWell, it’s pretty clear this lieporter Ray Stern is not going to open his eyes or tell us what is going on with the obvious chemtrails. But i have good news! At least your Government is now confessing they are spraying chemicals to prevent climate change! Remember, we have global warming going on. At least that is what they want us to believe: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/29/aerosols-climate-change.html?campaign=w01-101-ae-0003

Wake up america, Change is Coming, in your weather type namely. Please keep breathing… 😦

Ray SternNowhere in the discovery.com article you linked to states that “they are spraying chemicals” as you claim. That is an exaggeration on your part. The article is about scientists wondering whether sulphur should be sprayed in the air to counteract the greenhouse effect.

NikolaiAh yes, how ignorant of me. This article is not in the closest possible way related to this blog… An YES, you are totally right: The fact that scientists or the writer of the article on Discovery News are stating that putting chemicals in the air has never been tested before or any of the things they talk about, means that it HAS never happened before, because they tell us so right? Dream on man.

Neil ThompsonMy Camera and my Eyes don’t lie. I know that it takes 30,000 feet and crisp air to create a ‘Contrail’ that last any longer than 1 minute. 2 if you have IDEAL conditions. These are lower in altitude, below the jet stream and PERSISTENT. Call me delusional, call me a ranting maniac, but that will not change the facts.

NBCCheck out this news story from NBC. It says chemtrails are real and environmental groups have the proof. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz_oNMJXBc – 64k

infowars.comIt’s really funny that when anyone tries to debunk conspiracy theories they don’t use scientific facts. They resort to making fun of anyone that has these views ie.”i think the jet planes are playing tic tac toe” to these people i say go read some books and get informed, then make up your mind. go to infowars.com.  p.s. Hey, Ray Stern, Alex Jones would eat you for lunch

Donna B.Anytime I read “wake up people” and “scientific facts” and “prove it’s NOT happening” all about one subject, I know I’m hearing bunk. Thanks for the laughs and keep on believing!

HonestObserver“There’s another real problem lurking in jet exhaust: Carbon emissions, which the world’s top scientists say are leading to global warming.” I have a sneaking suspicion that one whacko theory has died, and another has taken it’s place. Yeee-ep… You see, that’s not how you kill dracula because that’s how FRANKENSTEIN is killed. Ergo, that vampire is not a vampire, it’s a zombie! “Oh you silly conspiracy theorists… it’s NOT heavy metals that they’re releasing… it’s CARBON! And you should be very worried about it, because those tiny, tiny trails are causing global climate disruption and killing the planet! Got it?!” For the record, I don’t subscribe to either the chemtrail or global warming crap. I’m a SANE person in this asylum of modern times!

Ray SternI never said the trails are “causing global climate disruption and killing the planet,” though scientists do say that the buildup of greenhouse gases is leading to global warming. Stick to the facts. We have to have a baseline of some sort, and that baseline is science. Without that, you’re just guessing. It’s intellectually unfair to compare something that is measurable in jet exhaust by the ton (carbon emissions) to something that isn’t measurable at all (the supposed chemicals in the chemtrails “theory.”)

Anonymous“I never said the trails are “causing global climate disruption and killing the planet,” though scientists do say that the buildup of greenhouse gases is leading to global warming.” Well, yes, they do, but that doesn’t make it a valid counter-argument against the conspiracy of chemtrails. Nor even particularly relevant, especially given that the uh… consensus… seems to have quite a bit of resistence these days. One might even say it’s falling apart at its hastily stitched together seams. That aside, though, there are other and imo better points you could have used that would have stuck with the argument at hand. You were doing great until that global warming point! So don’t get me wrong. I thought your article was illustrative and informative. And I apologize for my exaggerating your words over the irony I perceived. But that’s all it was… bad humor. Anyway, the irony is/was… “It’s intellectually unfair to compare something that is measurable in jet exhaust by the ton (carbon emissions) to something that isn’t measurable at all (the supposed chemicals in the chemtrails “theory.”)” Yes, my point exactly! lol  You used an unmeasured thing (human impacts on global warming) to disprove another unmeasured thing (poisonous chemtrails in jet planes ) as part of your argument against them. But the claims of those scientists are no more valid than the claims of the conspiracy camp, ie, both are just speculation even though some on each side believe them to be true. Rock can not beat rock in rock-paper-scissors 😉

BryanHi all, I have 2 main comments. First of all, often I find that truth lies somewhere in the middle. I suspect that this applies to ‘contrails’ as well. Trust is important, especially in this day and age where the worlds volatility and blatant corruptions seem to be continually expanding. We have got to get back to a higher level of trust in order for us to evolve and aim for a higher good. Corruption must be reduced and we are at a critical point already.

1. In investigating jetfuels I have recently learned that surfactants in JP-8 and other JP fuels includes ‘alumina’ which is aluminum oxide. This same type of surfactant also appears in a jetfuel additive sold by a company named International Fuel Technology Inc. Their surfactant which improves jetfuel and is touted as being clean/safe is actually a subsidiary of Alcoa-America’s largest Aluminum producer. IFT never calls their surfactant alumina, they have renamed it, in looking into their patent though it is mentioned that the surfactants are alumina precursors. This is not exactly a good example of the company being forthcoming, nor is it widely discussed (I haven’t seen it anyway) that JP-8 surfactants include aluminum oxide. It is said that aluminum is combusted fully but I am extremely skeptical that this is the case. If you watch the discovery program on ‘chemtrails’ it stuck out to me that the USAF declined giving over a sample of their fuel for testing. I think that likely aluminum would be found at a concentration higher than they would like for anyone to know about.
Supporting links;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6027706.html
http://www.cohenresearch.com/reports/ifue_01-18-05.pdf
http://www.ftc-houston.com/images/Jet%20Fuel%20Filtration%2006-04.pdf
The above link mentions alumina as a
constuent of JP-8 in a breakdown of surfactant ingredients.
http://www.stormingmedia.us/70/7092/A709290.html

2. Freedomfighter4theplanet mentioned the Voodoo1 aircraft that flew large looping circles around Southern Ca. on Nov. 20th 2008. I actually took pictures that day of the circular contrail as I haven’t seen too many round shaped contrails. He mentions that the experimental aircraft which is a heavily modified B727 is owned by Raytheon. I would like to point out that Raytheon is also closely connected to HAARP. This plane is officially for Avionics research which also relates to HAARP capabilities of long range communications. I am going to be researching as much as I can about how active the HAARP transmission was during this interesting flight test and am also going to be looking at the jetstream and other weather data for a few days after this flightpath and its pronounced contrail. On the 20th of November I witnessed and imaged many persisting contrails throughout the entire day. It was one of those days where the sky got continually more overcast due to contrails. I think both of my comments are worthy of further investigations and would urge those with time, interest and energy to also pursue them further.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N289MT&distinct_entry=true
http://contrailscience.com/voodoo-contrails-over-los-angeles/
One note, if you decide to post over at contrail science, please be decent to the moderator, he has his viewpoint and does not deserve any garbage language or flaming comments. He makes many exceptionally good points regardless of how your views may diverge.

HonestObserverBryan, I think your two points are good ones and investigating them further will shed more light on this matter. And I think it will probably result in a middle of the road explaination. One thing I would like to point though is that no one has provided any evidence that, even if there is total truth to the conspiracy, that there aren’t any/many (?) adversely-affected people to make the “theory” work. At least as far as I have been able to look into it, but I don’t have good reason to think that there are any/many. A sick/body count is needed and one has yet to turn up. While you’re probably correct that fuel/additives do in fact contain the alumminum (and/or other elements), we have to remember that they’re being dispersed from up high and over a wide area. So concentrations of them in fuel/additive alone aren’t going to prove anything. Anyway, you also made the point of having reason to be suspicious in today’s world. I whole-heartedly agree! The corruption however is entirely rooted in the global financial sector. It’s a world-wide phenomenon, actually, and not limited to the US (despite how much the media seems to speak mainly about the US). There are PLENTY of good reasons for people to distrust their government and be suspect of the… now how do those conspiracy theorists put it? The military/idustrial complex?… That has been adversly affected by the corruption in the monetary and financial system over the last century in general, more in the last 38 years and the last decade especially.
All of this is worth noting because the one man who ended the last of the gold standard 38 years was the same man to create the EPA: Richard Nixon. History has proven time and again that when a nation or nations drop a sound/er monetary policy, that chaos results and increases with time. I can’t prove it, but it makes sense to see that Nixon created the EPA in anticipation of an increasingly failing industrial society. With a government instutition is place, the government would be able to reap a fortune in environmental fines, laws, taxes, and expand the law to increasingly extort compliance out of the productive sector, even as the productive sector faces increasing failure. Lawyers would make a fortune, too. Nobody can argue that they haven’t, either!
It’s funny how the conspiracy theorists say that everything is kept under raps, hush-hush operations and all that, when the broader political spectrum is persecuting modern society and has been for some time now. It’s one of the most politcally correct things to do. Just look at the EU and England these days… they are so ban and tax happy on chemicals these days! And in the process, all manner of silly claims are put into the spotlight as relevent risk, while the real, significant risks building up in a bankrupting industrial society are ignored.
So I do not think the theorists are COMPLETELY out of their minds. They have their reasons to think what they do. But at the same time, there is a tragedy taking place… governments are able to get away with their crimes as people divert their attention elsewhere, into ever-increasing versions of half-truths and heresay evidence of them. Structural and financial decay and truly needed protective measures go more lax, and perhaps non-existent as the trivial becomes the serious and the serious the trivial.
Which is just downright scary. Every human society that had to endure a regressive dip did so in the wake of unsound monetary and fiscal policy. Today, there are more people than ever in the world, all dependent on the keeping risky ventures within the bounds of safety that knowledge and practice offers. Bad policy is erroding that away, and diverting resources to an attack/regulation on more benign set of “serious threats”.
So I ask all here to consider the broader spectrum, to quit screwing around with the leaves and branches and get to the root of the matter. While the time-bomb of unsound monetary and fiscal policy has already detonated (it has… nothing anyone can do about that now) the damage can be minimized, but only if we use our ability to be rational to as great effect as possible. Just remember, folks… a dark age was made out of such a collapse as we face today.

MadScience4Money$$$ :  This is Google’s cache of http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soilradar.html. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 12, 2008 19:18:34 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more Full version Chemtrails – spraying in our sky  “Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it.” Maple Leaf.  Spray Tankers Tracked by Radar, Lab Tests Raise Concerns By William Thomas Jan. 28, 2003 Last fall, a long-time landscaper working under contract for the City of Edmonton began noticing that carefully tended flowers and trees were showing signs of severe nutrient deficiencies. City specifications call for electrical conductivity (EC) readings no higher than “1” in local soils.  When soil samples showed damaging EC readings 4.6 to 7-times higher than this maximum permissible level, Dave Dickie suspected that elevated levels of electricity-conducting metals in the soils could be leading to the plants’ “chlorosis” condition.  A life-long plane spotter, Dickie also wondered if there could be a connection to events unfolding on ATC radar scopes during his regular visits to the Edmonton municipal airport’s Air Traffic Control center. Last Father’s Day, Dickie and an excited group of 12 year-olds watched two KC-135s, tagged “Petro 011” and “Petro 012”, flying at 34,000 and 36,000 feet south and north of Edmonton. According to the controllers watching the scopes, both U.S. Air Force KC-135 air-refueling tankers had flown south out of Alaska.  But the big Boeings were not refueling other aircraft.  Instead, as Dickie, the kids and the controllers watched, the four-engine jets began making patterns over Edmonton – “circuits” the controllers called it. The Stratotankers were working alone in “commanded airspace” from which all other aircraft were excluded. And they were leaving chemtrails.  TELLTALE SIGNATURES “The signature is significant” commented one radar operator, referring to trails clearly visible on his scope extending for miles behind the KC-135s.  In contrast, a commercial JAL flight on the same display left no visible trail. Going outside, Dickie and several controllers scanned clear blue skies over the northern Canadian city.  Visibility was outstanding.  They easily located a KC-135 leaving a lingering, broad white plume.  They could also clearly see the JAL airliner at a similar flight level. It left no contrail at all. On other occasions, Dickie has watched KC-135s on Edmonton radar leaving lingering trails as low as 18,000 feet. “We see these guys up here a lot,” radar techs told Dickie, explaining that the USAF tanker flights originate in Alaska and continue on into the States – after gridding the Edmonton area with emanations clearly visible on radar. “You should have seen it when they had the big summit up in Calgary,” the Canadian controllers exclaimed.  “It was exciting to watch them.”  The G7 maneuvers suggested that barium might have been sprayed to enhance radio and radar surveillance over what protesters condemned as a “globalization” conference aimed at worldwide corporate domination. That was speculation. But back in Edmonton, there was no doubt that particulates were being sprayed by the tankers.  Pointing to “birdie feet” on their scopes, the radar technicians showed Dickie particles appearing “as concentrations of dots” in the radar-tracked plumes. Zooming in and out on each plane with the click of cursor, Dickie said that he and the controllers “could see different contrails.”  Some were short, and quickly vanished from the scopes.  Other trails were thick, long and lingering – not acting like contrails at all. Especially exciting for Dickie and the kids was watching head-on passes between KC-135s and commercial airliners. Flying directly at each other with a closing rate of nearly 1,000 mph, the huge jets appeared about to collide. But the unconcerned controllers explained to Dickie that the aircraft must adhere to a minimum 1,000 foot vertical separation rule – recently reduced from twice that safety margin. No one explained what might happen, if the “top” plane suffered a sudden decompression and was forced to dive to lower altitude. BARIUM AND ALUMINUM CONFIRMED Assuming that unusual metal content in the soil could be causing the high electrical conductivity readings, Dickie collected samples of a fresh snowfall for the city, and took them to Edmonton’s NorWest Labs for analysis.
 This reporter has obtained copies of lab tests conducted on snow samples collected by the city of Edmonton, Alberta between Nov. 8 – 12, 2002.  The tests show unaccountably elevated levels of aluminum and barium.  Norwest Labs lab report #336566, dated Nov. 14 2002 found: aluminum levels: 0.148 milligrams/litre, barium levels:    0.006 milligrams/litre. Acting like the electrolyte in a car battery, barium chemtrails developed at Ohio’s Wright Patterson Air Force Base are routinely sprayed into the atmosphere to “duct” or bend military radio and radar waves over-the-horizon, instead of continuing straight beyond the Earth’s curvature into space.  “Wright Pat” is also closely connected to HAARP Experiments employing tightly focused, extremely high-energy radio frequency beams to alter the weather, disrupt communications and “X-ray” bunkers deep underground thousands of miles away the transmitter array in Gakon, Alaska. Aluminum stunts plant growth by sucking nutrients from the soil. Dave Dickie told me, “Our most recent snowfall was tested for aluminum and barium and we were not surprised with the results. You’ve said it all along and this just substantiates some of your claims.” But the soil expert cautioned that because the chemistry of unrefined aluminum oxide often found in the environment depends on soil acidity and the presence of other minerals, it is difficult to estimate “natural” background concentrations. Even so, NorWest Lab techs told Dickie that the elevated levels of aluminum and barium they were finding are not usually found in Alberta precipitation. Concerned city officials ordered more tests made on precipitation falling within a 40 mile radius of Edmonton.  A second series of lab tests has now confirmed high levels of barium and aluminum in snow Dickie thinks fell through chemtrails.  So far, he says, there is no other explanation for the high-levels of each chemical compound in city soils. Dickie says it’s so simple to test for aluminum and barium, labs typically charge $10 to $15 for this analysis.  He is adding quartz to the list of possible fallout components after tiny quartz particles dominated lab tests of rain falling through heavy chemtrails over Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999.  Levels of aluminum analyzed in the Ontario samples were up to seven-times higher than provincial permissible safety limits.  U.S. CONTROLLERS CONCERNED OVER CHEMTRAILS. South of the border, U.S. Air Traffic Controllers were also concerned over tanker-spread emissions.  Just after Christmas 2001, the Air Traffic Control manager for the northeastern seaboard became increasingly concerned that his young son’s illness – and episodes of Sudden Onset Acute Asthma suffered by his formerly allergy-free wife – could be linked with the increased aerial activity he was seeing on his scopes. On March 12, 2001, this source – who came to be called “Deep Sky” by this reporter and ABC-affiliated radio reporter S.T. Brendt – told Brendt that he and other controllers were being told to re-route commercial air traffic beneath formations of air force tankers.  Insisting that flight safety was not affected, he admitted during a follow-up interview at WMWV radio station that the KC-135s were spraying something that reflected radar pulses as a “haze” that degraded ATC radars. Brendt contacted the FAA official after counting more than 30 big jets within 45 minutes spreading persistent plumes over rural Maine.  Also alerted by Brendt, assistant WMWV news director Richard Dean and his staff counted 370 chemical trails criss-crossing his nearby location.  But Deep Sky told Brendt that of the nine commercial jets on his radars at the time, only one or two would have been visible from her location. Speaking on condition of strict anonymity, the ATC manager later expressed concern over the classified operations conducted by much larger military formations of KC-135 tankers between 37,000 and 40,000 feet. Many video-documented plume patterns grid skies away from charted airline routes on days when high altitude temperatures and humidity do not permit normal contrail formation.  Studies by Ralph Steadham of FAA – identified traffic over Houston found that while commercial condensation trails comprising momentarily flash-frozen water vapor typically disappear within 22 seconds or less, much broader, sunlight-reflecting jet trails left by military jets flying at the same time in the same airspace often lingered for four to eight hours. CANADIANS LODGE CHEMTRAILS COMPLAINTS. The previous December, 2000 Canadian aviation authority Terry Stewart investigating a Victoria caller’s complaint of intensive “chemtrail” activity over the British Columbia capitol left a taped message saying, “It’s a military exercise, U.S. and Canadian air force exercise that’s going on.  They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it…very odd.” Despite denials from a Canadian commander at Comox Air Base that the American tanker flights were taking place, Stewart later admitted to the Vancouver Courier that his information came directly from the Comox base.  He was later stopped and interrogated by U.S. authorities while crossing the border on a routine visit. Before ever hearing of “chemtrails”, Canadians were the first to formerly complain to their federal government over what they identified as chemical spraying.  In November 1999, an Opposition Defence Critic presented a petition to Parliament signed by 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario.  The largely native community demanded an explanation and an end to aerial spraying by photo-identified USAF tankers, which they claimed was sickening children and adults over a 55 square mile area. Laboratory tests of rainwater falling through the sky plumes being paid in X’s and grid patterns over Espanola found levels of aluminum seven-times higher than federal health safety limits.  The U.S. Air Force denied flying over Espanola.  The Canadian Forces, which do not operate large squadrons of aerial tankers, eventually responded, saying, “It’s not us.” DEEP SKIES II
But in late December 2001, just three months after the traumatic events of Sept. 11 left air force tankers gridding skies emptied of commercial aircraft, an increasingly worried “Deep Sky” began calling his colleagues at FAA flight centers across the United States to ask them if they were seeing what he was seeing on his own radar scopes. They were. Controllers at Chicago’s O’Hare (still the busiest airport in America), all three New York City area airports, LA’s LAX, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Cleveland, San Diego, Dulles, Washington DC and the nation’s biggest airport in Atlanta all reported tracking unusual formations of particle-emitting Air Force tankers on their scopes.  So were controllers at smaller municipal airports. Every controller contacted by Deep Sky said they were being told to divert commercial traffic below formations of tankers flying strange patterns they were told were “routine”. But instead of enhancing radar coverage, initial explanations from their superiors warned controllers that unspecified “experiments with radar” could degrade their own displays.  The controllers confirmed to Deep Sky that they had never seen so much “clutter” or artificial “cloudiness” obscuring their radars. By then, a growing number of informally networked Air Traffic Controllers were aware of the “chemtrails” controversy.  Some cited the short-lived House Resolution 2977 sponsored by Ohio Representative Dennis Kucinich, which sought to ban space warfare and other exotic weapons, including “chemtrails”. But concerned controllers across America told S.T. Brendt that whatever was going on, flight safety was a consideration.  Even more worrisome was the fallout they were seeing on their scopes.  They knew from their professional studies in meteorology, that “this stuff falls to the ground.”  And they wondered about what they termed, potential health hazards. As federal employees, the FAA radar operators were afraid to come forward with their concerns.  But at least one controller working in America’s heartland visited a local hospital after heavy tanker activity – to find the emergency room jammed with acute respiratory cases. “They want to know what the heck is in there,” Brendt reported.  “One of them said – al or barium – that’s not something you want to be breathing.” [Al is the chemical abbreviation for aluminum.] Corroborating Deep Sky’s allegations, controllers across the USA confirmed that the word “climate” is still being mentioned by their superiors in explaining the ongoing aerial experiments.  At the time of Brendt’s follow-up interviews, at least six Air Traffic Controllers were told that the air force tankers were engaged in “climate experiments”. In 1998, H-Bomb inventor Edward Teller urged the spraying of 10 million tons of sunlight-reflecting aluminum oxide in the atmosphere to deflect a small percentage of incoming sunlight and avert catastrophic global warming.  A patent issued to the Hughes aerospace giant calls for mixing 10 micron particulates of aluminum oxide and other sunlight-scattering into jet fuel for dispersal at cruising altitudes. After studies in the U.S. and U.K. showed that random concentrations of air pollution can cause lethal lung and heart problems, the United States EPA now classifies 10 micron air pollutants as an “Extreme Health Hazard”. (A human hair is 100 microns in diameter.) As reports continue to come in of renewed heavy chemtrail activity across the USA and Canada’s western provinces, lab testing continues in Edmonton, where an ongoing investigation seeks to correlate chemtrail “spray days” with fresh snow and soil samples. This article is used here with permission.  William Thomas is the author of “Chemtrails Confirmed”.  This account of his four-year investigation into chemtrails was last updated in Jan. 2003.  Contact William Thomas:
willthomas@telus.net or Will Thomas. You are invited to contact us at the “Holmestead”.

QRMWhat’s really lame is that the reporter who wrote this article does not appear to have actually observed the phenomenon. A canister that “collects particles in the air to determine their effect on climate change”? Yeah, right. How many aircraft have one of those? On a day when weather only supports pencil-thin, evaporative contrails, if any at all, the sky gets filled with long-lasting parallel and crosshatch patterns of puff emitted from the wings of large aircraft that carry no logo. It makes your jaw drop open to see it. Giant Xs in the sky are in no way ordinary aircraft activity. And it can make you sneeze and hack almost without end, to the point you really start thinking about 1) remaining vertical and 2) whether you’ll need the emergency room.

RogerI realise I am wasting my time, because True Believers always find a way to ignore any counter-arguments, but I just feel compelled to respond to some of the obviously only half-informed comments that some posters have made (mm, that tar baby sure looks sticky….)

1. Yes experiments have been done to to increase ion concentrations in the atmosphere in order to extend the range of radio communications or radar signals in an emergency. However, for several very simple reasons, these experiments are certainly totally unrelated to the chemtrails hypothesis. Firstly, such experiments are conducted in the ionosphere, which is an extremely high altitude region of the atmosphere, a near vacuum “on the edge of space”, because at higher atmospheric pressures the ions would recombine too quickly. The air is so thin at these extreme altitudes that aircraft cannot fly there; experiments are conducted by sounding rockets, not by airplanes. It is so high, that you would not be able to see an aircraft even with binoculars anyway. Secondly, because of the extremely low atmospheric density at these altitudes, the amount of material required to create an “ion cloud” is tiny: generally only a couple of pounds. It is also pointless to create an ion cloud if you have an aircraft in the area: the aircraft is itself a far better radio relay than an ion cloud. Finally, I re-emphasise that all this *only* works in near vacuum conditions; at the altitudes at which aircraft fly, these compounds are less visible on radar than ordinary water droplets (which do, in fact, show up pretty well on an appropriately tuned radar.)

2. There is no evidence that aluminium compounds cause any diseases except possibly at very high concentrations. In fact, it is believed to be one of the least toxic of all elements. True, back in the 1990s there was a preliminary study which suggested a link to Alzheimer’s disease — and was immediately widely reported in the press, despite being unconfirmed — but all followup studies have found no such link. The fact is, the idea is so implausible it probably should never have been published. The reason that it is implausible is that aluminium is the third most common element on Earth, after silicon and oxygen, and is absolutely ubiquitous: you cannot avoid coming into frequent contact with large amounts of aluminium compounds. So if aluminium really does cause disease, it will be very upsetting to both Darwinists and to Creationists. The Darwinists will be upset because it will show that either humanity does not come from Earth, or else evolution does not work. The Creationists will be upset because it will prove that if Man is a result of intelligent design, then it is a malicious intelligence which designed for pain; the world created by an evil demiurge. But we don’t need to worry about converting to Gnosticism, because aluminium does NOT cause disease, except possibly at extremely high concentrations that are not found in nature.

3. Aluminium compounds and quartz are common ingredients of dust. Barium compounds are not as common, but are not rare, either. Finding them “falling out” from the atmosphere indicates nothing but that some neighbour has had a bit of wind lately.

4. Whether or not an aircraft generates visible condensation trails does not depend on the weather on the ground, it depends on the weather tens of thousands of feet up in the sky (notably, low temperature, high relative humidity and low wind turbulence.) It also depends on the tuning and particular fuel type of the aircraft. The KC-135 is a very elderly plane and the ones that have not been rebuilt have much less efficient engines than modern aircraft. Among other features, the elderly J-57 engine has a water injection system, which improves thrust efficiency — and also increases the formation of condensation trails.

5. It is practically impossible to tell by unaided ground observation if two airplanes are at the same altitude.

6. There are many perfectly innocent reasons why an aircraft might fly around in circles for a while — as a student pilot myself, I can attest to that! However, it is completely illogical that a plane would fly around in circles if it was trying to spread some chemical around.

7. Voodoo1 is the test plane for new Raytheon radars. This is not secret (even if the exact design of the radars is!), and publicly available photos of it clearly show its special chin mount for the radar antenna, and no spraying gear.

8. Alumina (aluminium oxide) is an abrasive and it is the last thing you would want in your fuel system as it would quickly destroy the fuel pumps. By an “aluminium based surfactant” they probably mean an organic acid salt (soap) of aluminium. These are indeed widely used as lubricants and greases, including in common automotive products. If an aluminium grease was used in jet fuel, the high temperature combustion would certainly convert it to aluminium oxide in the exhaust. However — so what? Aluminium oxide has very low toxicity and is widely found in nature already.

9. “…levels of aluminum seven-times higher than federal health safety limits …” is nonsense; there is no Federal health safety limit for aluminium in drinking water (because it is non-toxic.) There is a non-binding “secondary standard” guideline for aluminium levels, but it is based only on aesthetic considerations (i.e., taste.)

10. I could go on and on but you guys never pause for breath and I have work to do …

Er, thanks, Roger, for saving me some time. What a load of pseudoscience, garbage, and astroturf THAT was! 🙂

STEVE

(conversation with the Bard)

Bard1

Not true when you do the FUEL ACCOUNTING. 300,000,000 tons. Civil bit 250,000,000 tons. Out of the remaining 50,000,000 you have to take out ALL ARMED FORCES REGULAR OPERATIONS AND THE IRAQ WAR. What’s left is INSUFFICIENT FOR A WORLD-WIDE CAMPAIGN.

Doing the US alone won’t do ANYTHING: the US is <2% of the area of the Earth.

That <2% would require 170,000 tons of Barium Oxide for A SINGLE SHOT. That would require 4250 flights. The Aluminium/Barium is BRILLIANT WHITE and splashes of it would be EVERYWHERE – but nothing is seen. SILVER can be ruled out – the US flogged off its stockpile to pay a small proportion of its vast debt.

Of course there will be photographs of nozzles and sprayers. The US used spraying in several war campaigns. Perhaps there’s only the ONE array of each type. Doesn’t PROVE a THING. THERE IS NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

Hazardous materials would put workers’ families at risk, and there has been NO SIGN of that.

Nobody has sampled a “chemtrail”, or gotten inside a base to a store, raced around taking pictures of airstrips, planes. Nothing.

I grew up inside airbases, and later tested jet engines. Bases AREN’T SECURE (in peacetime), and jet engines DON’T WORK if they are forced to emit anything other than SODA POP from their exhausts.

Not only that, but what about all this hypocrisy and deceit? What about the COMPLETE level of ignorance? One site (it has blocked me) stoutly maintains that the PLANE THAT BRINGS MY MOTHER HERE (Monarch Airbus A-330 passenger plane service from Manchester) is a CHEMTRAIL SPRAYER!

Look again at my final point. The US economy is going to COLLAPSE within FIVE YEARS, by which time it will have NO REMAINING WAY OF PROVING ITS ABILITY TO REPAY ITS DEBTS. NO-ONE is going to cough up – especially NOT CHINA OR RUSSIA. And not Britain either.

When that shit hits the fan all HELL will break loose. This INFORMATIONAL GARBAGE will exacerbate that moment.

It’ll be a GOOD IDEA to REMAIN HERE.

panic

Supersaturation

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PAGE CONTENTS

SUPERSATURATION – SVETLANA – TABLE – TEMPORARY CLOUD – TEST – THANKYOU – TRUE/FALSE – TRUTHTRUSTLOVE – UK ADMITTED – UNMARKED – VALLEY FEVER – VAPORS – VENT – WET – WETTER LETTIS

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

  

SUPERSATURATION

strat

It is possible for the stratospheric air layer to be SUPERSATURATED (well above its dew point) yet, as usual, transparent and invisible. A plane flying through this with ITS MOTORS OFF will still generate a LARGE VAPOUR TRAIL as it triggers the supersaturated air to release its water.

From Wikipedia
 Enormous, highly pure, single crystal substances can be grown from a solution at the metastable boundary between an unsaturated and supersaturated solution. Here, a monopotassium phosphate crystal grown to create frequency doubling optics for the NIF laser. The term supersaturation refers to a solution that contains more of the dissolved material than could be dissolved by the solvent under normal circumstances. It can also refer to a vapor of a compound that has a higher (partial) pressure than the vapor pressure of that compound.

Condensation
Small particles (seeds) can trigger the separation of the dissolved material from the solvent or condensation of the vapor. Seeds triggering the condensation of vapor are referred to as condensation nuclei, as in the case of water vapor. In the solid form these seeds can lead to the formation of crystallites or even large single crystals. Supersaturation is a measure of the deviation of a dissolved salt crystal from its equilibrium state.

Preparation
Supersaturated solutions are prepared or result when some condition of a saturated solution is changed, for example temperature, volume (as by evaporation), or pressure.

Examples
Carbonated water is a supersaturated solution of carbon dioxide gas in water. At the elevated pressure in the bottle, more carbon dioxide can dissolve in water than at atmospheric pressure. At atmospheric pressure, the carbon dioxide gas escapes very slowly from the supersaturated liquid. This process may be accelerated by the presence of nucleation sites within the solution, such as small bubbles, caused by shaking the bottle, or another solute, such as sugar powder or a widget. A Diet Coke and Mentos eruption is a rather extreme example. Some beverage products such as ales and stouts e.g. Guinness rely on this effect to produce the ‘head’ on the surface of the poured product. This has led to the invention of the widget, a device developed to produce enhanced bubble seeding in liquids, especially with dual supersaturated gas phases (carbon dioxide and nitrogen) (see patents by Fitzpatrick and Kuzniarski).

Scuba divers’ tissues become supersaturated with breathing gases during a dive. If the diver ascends too fast, these gases form bubbles, resulting in decompression sickness.

In air that is supersaturated with water, water droplets may precipitate upon being disturbed. This can be observed in a cloud chamber. In the more general context a precipitate may form.

Supersaturated solutions of sugar and water are commonly used to make Rock candy.

SVETLANA

Svetlana Kapanina – the best female aerobatic flyer the world has seen. Oh!

 

TABLE

PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
meters C

355.2  8230 -35.1 -47.4 27 0.15 175 16 320.0 320.6 320.1
344.0  8456 -37.1 -50.1 25 0.11 181 19 320.2 320.7 320.2
311.0  9144 -42.1 -51.4 35 0.11 200 28 322.6 323.0 322.6
300.0  9390 -43.9 -51.9 41 0.11 205 29 323.4 323.8 323.4
250.0 10590 -53.7 -61.7 37 0.04 200 34 326.1 326.3 326.1
246.9 10668 -54.3 -62.3 37 0.04 200 34 326.3 326.5 326.3
200.0 11990 -64.9 -71.9 37 0.01 210 39 329.8 329.9 329.8
193.4 12192 -66.4 -73.4 37 0.01 210 41 330.6 330.6 330.6

Above is the table retabulated using the TAB key. It might not work through this letter program, but it works for me to have lined-up columns.. grab it and see if it recompiles itself into the FULL Notepad page (which I am working in).

I know what the first five headings are but will have to first ask you if you have further definitions for MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV.

The last three look suspiciously like absolute temperatures, and may not count for much.

The five columns on the left have enough info, though.

PRES is the Pressure in millibars, where 1000 millibars is 14.7 lbs/sq.in

Height in metres can easily be translated into feet.

Temp in degrees Centigrade

DWPT is Dewpoint – the temperature at which humidity would be 100%

RELH is the Relative Humidity, expressed as a percentage

Combine this with the chart for predicting contrails –

http://www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/resources/activities/appleman_student.html

and see what you make of it.

  

TEMPORARY CLOUD

supersonic

Another “temporary cloud” phenomenon is the WHITE CONE that flutters around the mid-section of fighter aircraft as they cross the Sound Barrier and go SUPERSONIC.

This is also a WATER thing – the shocked air loses pressure, and dumps its water. Oddly enough, just ahead of that phenomenon, the air has been COMPRESSED, and its temperature greatly raised…

  

TEST

“he mentions chemtrails by name” – jeez, you’re IMPENETRABLE

“HAARP”. Did you know HAARP was accused of causing bad weather – HAARP is both a long-distance comm tool and a method of causing fairly local atmospheric heating. The former is useless against terrorism, the latter is useless a) because it cannot be moved from where it is b) it requires a GInormous power input and a DEAD SHORT to any grid that uses it. It also works best pointing straight upwards – a fairly obvious fact when you see the nature of its antennae.

“The orbs are real” – sure, they are, but not of this Earth. I saw the NASA live broadcast.

!I will prove the low RH%! – I’ve discussed the ONLY way you can prove it. It would cost about 10K bucks to do it. A worthwhile investment either way. You calibrate test instrument and collection gear in front of TWO constantly-running videocameras, leave for aircraft leaving one behind on a tripod looking at the test equipment. The collection gear must also have camera trained upon it ALL THE TIME. It is deployed out of back of fast private jet into a contrail at 30+ thousand feet. At the same time the pressure, temp and humidity of the ambient air is measured. The camera is trained on the gauges and the collector AT ALL TIME. You return to the lab and perform the tests on the test sample – the test material MUST NEVER LEAVE THE FRAME.

  

THANKYOU

“Porton Down right up until 1989” – WHO died?

“there’s too many to name” – just name 1 in 5, then. Pick your proportion.

“They are doing it now as many people are realising” – and WHO is dying?

“You were insulting people for telling” – a LIE?

“You can not get worse than that” – shamefully TRUE…

“Goodnight” – and thankyou.

ta

  

TRUE/FALSE

corporations dont own your government – DO.

we went to war legally with iraq – WRONG.

intelligence was right on – PACK OF LIES.

Bush won the election – NO, THE VOTING MACHINES DID.

No sort of controversy – WHEW!

the american union – LAST HEARD OF IN 18TH CENTURY.

The patriot act upholds all rights – IN A PIG’S EAR…

chemtrails were last heard of in Vietnam – TRUE.

Contrails are commonly called “chemtrails” by the uneducated – REGRETTABLY TRUE.

So-called “chemtrail tests” were carried out at ground level and tested for RAIN and WIND-BORNE DUST – TRUE.

So-called “persistent chemtrails” are just CONTRAILS laid in a particular layer of saturated air – TRUE.

It would take 3.4 MILLION tons of ALUMINUM/BARIUM to single-shot the Earth – TRUE.

AL/BA through the engines would bring them to a stop – TRUE.

Blood products/Morgellons through the engines would be CREMATED at 2000 deg C – TRUE.

The wing-mounted spray devices typically shown in CT videos are FUEL VENTS – TRUE.

ELEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED VOLCANOES on Earth dwarf Man’s annual 300M tons of AV/FUEL – TRUE.

Respiratory problems are easily accounted for by DUSTS, POLLENS, MOULD SPORES, AND PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG – TRUE.

I like this true/false game… do you?

flowchart_bullshit

  

TRUTHTRUSTLOVE (sic!)

I assume “You reap what you Sow ” applies to you as well. OF COURSE.

“In a world of universal DECEIT, the TRUTH is a REVOLUTIONARY ACT” – George Orwell. YOU’LL FIND IT ON MY CHANNEL.

You should know . A quote from George Orwell ….sorry real name Eric Blair. That’s truly deceit isn’t it? Especially as he was a Fabian Socialist. The coat of arms for the Fabian society is a Wolf in sheep’s Clothing , the ultimate deceivers. Tony Blair is also a Fabian Socialist & Traitor. – I WAS A SOCIALIST UNTIL 1968 WHEN I BECAME AN ANARCHO SYNDICALIST, A GREEN, AND A PERMACULTURALIST. SEARCH PRINCE KROPOTKIN AND READ ON FOR SEVERAL WEEKS, THEN BILL MOLLISON.

What makes you the Contrails expert? – I’M AN AEROENGINEER. I TESTED JET ENGINES IN TEST BAYS. I HELPED CONSTRUCT THE CONCORDE ENGINE TEST INSTALLATION. I HAVE ANALYZED EXHAUSTS. I KNOW HOW HOT THAT EXHAUST IS. I KNOW HOW IMPOSSIBLE IT IS TO KEEP ORGANIC BARIUM COMPOUNDS MIXED INTO KEROSINE. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO JET ENGINES WHEN METAL DUSTS PASS THROUGH THEM. I KNOW HOW MANY EASIER AND CHEAPER WAYS THERE ARE TO COMBAT GLOBAL WARMING. I KNOW HOW SMALL CLOUD-SEEDING EXPERIMENTS ARE COMPARED WITH THE SIZE OF THE EARTH. I KNOW THE SIZE OF THE EARTH.

Contrails do not form in damp wet weather. – YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.

Contrails form at above 18,000 feet in dry cold conditions. – YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.

Contrails last from 0.25 – 3 seconds. – YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.

Chem trails last from 10 mins to at least 8 hours. – CHEMTRAILS DON’T EXIST.

The US Government admits it is using what we call “Chem Trails”. – YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.

it is known as the “Combined Direct, Indirect Aerosol Campaign.” – That is officially the title amongst many dozens of operations from the Department of Energy in the United States. – IT IS THE STUDY OF COMBUSTION AEROSOLS IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

The Greek parliament has raised the issue of Chem trails. – SO HAVE YOU. SO WHAT?

Google it and read the transcript. – WHEN I HAVE THE TIME….

The German Military recently admitted on TV to using Chem Trails in Weather modification trials. – THIS WAS A DELIBERATE MISTRANSLATION (OTHERWISE KNOWN AS A FRAUD). CHAFF IS A BURST OF “TINSEL”. IT IS NOT A TRAIL.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MVc9GX5K_As – I HAVE SEEN IT.

It is illegal for unmarked un-flagged un-numbered Aircraft to fly in Tandem or even 6 at a time over urban areas spraying Chemicals, only to turn around come back and do it again. This has happened many times over Brighton. – WHERE’S THE VIDEO?

The Aviation Law has a section dealing with Public Endangerment. – THERE’S A LAW AGAINST SPITTING INTO THE WIND…

Dr Hildegarde Staninger PHD is a Toxicologist. An Independent Toxicologist. Please write to her and tell her she is wrong. – MORGELLONS MAY EXIST AS A DISEASE, OR MAY NOT. I HAVE SEEN THE MATERIAL. THREE POINTS:

WHY ISN’T THERE A SCIENTIFIC BODY OF OPINION BEHIND HER?

WHERE IS THERE A PROVED CONNECTION WITH AIRCRAFT AS A VECTOR?

IF THE “MATERIAL” FORMS CLOSE ASSOCIATIONS WITH FUNGI, WHY HAVEN’T FUNGAL SPORES BEEN FOUND WHICH CONTAIN IT?

I am glad I will reap what I sow. I tell the truth. Unlike you. – YOU WILL REAP WHAT YOU SOW. IGNORANCE FOLLOWED BY SLANDER AND DECEIT WILL BRING DOWN UPON YOU A FATE I WOULD NOT WISH TO RECEIVE.

YOU ARE A COMPLETE TIT. Read https://jazzroc.wordpress.com and find out why.

tit

  

UK ADMITTED

“UK has just admitted chemtrails since the 70s” – That isn’t true.

“still happens every day here where I live” – Nor is this.

“This is population control at its worst” – It isn’t at all. Who died, exactly? Oh, yes, you’re quite correct. It IS population control at its worst!

“born in East Lulworth in Dorset” – I know it WELL. I took my children CAMPING there until they were grown up. They are FIT and HEALTHY.

“32 C – 39% humidity – clear sky – it’s a rarity to get a normal short-breath contrail – but we get grids that expand all day long and cover the entire sky as cloud cover” – YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THE TROPOSPHERE. THE STRATOSPHERE (where the trails are!) IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

“close-up ”contrails” forming directly from the body of the plane – and that’s not how normal contrails form – or you’ll call me a liar on that one too” – I’d call you WRONG, yes. There is still a GAP which represents the TIME it takes INVISIBLE STEAM to freeze into ICE CRYSTALS. If the air is VERY COLD (-80 deg C) and the RH 100% then the TIME will be SHORT (1/50 sec) and the GAP sixteen feet (at 807 ft/sec). And THAT GAP is VERY DIFFICULT TO SPOT FROM SEVEN MILES.

“6 separate trails ensuing from 4 or 2 engine planes” – OFTEN HAPPENS. When it does it means the AIR is SUPERSATURATED (MORE than 100% HUMID). That happens if the AIR is VERY CLEAN INDEED. Kinda makes you look stupid, eh?

the article is ‘MILLIONS WERE IN WAR GERM TESTS’ – Mmm. Journalists. There WEREN’T “millions” in the area, there AREN’T now, either.

“planes and aerial spraying?” – The RAF had NO spray planes. The RAE had a single Canberra spray plane specially-modified for these trials.. There are NO civil spray planes. Porton Down used water, zinc cadmium sulfide solution, and killed bacteria for these trials.

  

UNMARKED

“Why are these planes unmarked” – I’ll assume we’re talking about stratospheric flight. The plane is flying five to seven miles up in blue sky, strongly illuminated by the sun. Blue light is scattering everywhere. They will appear WHITE. All markings will be scattered away. If the plane had been painted BLACK it wouldn’t even be VISIBLE

“the light making it look white EVERY SINGLE TIME” – see above

“planes fly in strange patterns/not usual course” – did you SEE these planes change direction? Might they not merely have been DIFFERENT AIRCRAFT flying for a moment through MORE HUMID AIR, their contrails suddenly persisting, where before they didn’t?

“havent my grandfather or father seen these before only in the last few years” – Increasing traffic makes a WETTER STRATOSPHERE. Maybe they spent less time looking up earlier in their lives, the aviation traffic being less then.

“you seem to have a answer or cover up 4 everything” – I try to find a physics-logical answer for all of these questions, because the general understanding of the atmosphere is poor. How on Earth you believe that a 63yr-old retired engineer in the Canary Islands can COVER UP anything is your business, but if you were saying this to my face you’d meet up with the end of my fist, boyo!

“a few chemtrails get sprayed & a few hours later its overcast AGAIN” – a complaint first made in the US press late fifties/early sixties, nearly FIFTY YEARS AGO. Check out CONTRAILSCIENCE’S “Chemtrails were Contrails” video. Of course, they just said “contrails” then…

  

VALLEY FEVER

 

valley-fever

This “free” press publication is ANOTHER bastion of closed-minded stupidity. On it (December 14th, 2008) we have the following:

Emil Pulsifer: I’ve always found Strategic Air Command (Jimmy Stewart, 1955) to be wonderfully restful, especially in the flying scenes.

Christy: I have been a sky watcher for 40 years. I know the difference between a contrail, vapor trail, and a chemtrail. Chemtrails are real and you have to be blind not to see it. The authorities are lying when they say they are not spraying something in the atmosphere. We are not zany theorists but intelligent humans that know what we see in front of us. Choose to be blind if you want, but some day the truth will come out. Thanks Carole for trying to inform and protect the public. “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi.

Robert: I agree with Carole Pellatt. The chemtrailing is REAL. Get off your fat behind and do your research. There is real research and proof out there.  Think about it…our country is run by Big Oil. They make our jet fuel and can formulate it any way they want. AND they control what we put in our vehicles. Have you looked into what additives are mixed with our gasoline?  It doesn’t take Einstein to figure out something is not right here. All you have to do is LOOK UP. I recently drove up to Prescott to see if moving there would help me breathe better. But the Chemtrails were just as thick. We’re talking criss-crossing heavy attacks to our upper atmosphere. Please quit shunning concerned readers with your ignorance. Way to go Carole for having the “balls” to write in such a great story.

(Someone): YOU GO GIRL! Good Job sticking your neck out there for us, which isn’t easy. Thank you! You are an inspiration to me, and as soon as I get my act together here, I want to do similar work here in Portland, Oregon! I play piano/keyboards and guitar.

John Bonnema: The next time you see these jets spraying and littering the skies with these poisons, run a HEPA filter (new filter) outside for as long as you see the spraying and then have the filter tested for it’s content. You don’t want to know the results! Keep in mind that you are breathing this crap in, as are your family members. “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”

Carole Pellatt: Hi, Guess who here? Thank you so much for the publicity. First of all Ray, despite that you don’t believe in what is going on in the air, I appreciate that you tried to be kind to me in your commentary. I can see by the style of writing “black helicopter poetry”, “debunked chemtrail theory” and “obsession” that your words are completely unprovable and rather hostile and biased. And I mean no disrespect, but in our emails exchanges I asked you to read a) Military reports, b) any information-factual-that I’ve posted on my website, c) any reports or studies on weather modification, d) electromagnetic weapons, e) H.A.A.R.P. You told me you had never gone to my website, read my detailed report on the history of government experimentation on civilian populations (Connections, Yes We Are Being Sprayed), you never read any text I have published, any reports, and you told me you were a “news junkie” and if they were spraying the sky you’d know about it. That’s not much of a defense for debunkers. Sounds to me like you’ve pretty much admitted you have purposely done no real research. Researchers do not rely on the news to get their information. So it seems that you are so outside the loop of the reality of science, specifically science in the service of the military industrial complex, that what I’m saying seems completely unbelievable. Unfortunately, it’s you that are out of touch with nature, real clouds, and contrails. And by the way, it’s a rare occasion where you will hear me say the word “chemtrail”. I use it when I have to, but I know these experiments started just after WWII (documented fact), and they were called “contrails” when referring to weather modification (ex. report called “Using Airplane Contrails to Change The Weather”) and “chaff” when referring to discharging electromagnetic interrupting materials from jets. Now, onto the word “obsess”…..Well, I guess I do see chemtrails everywhere. Because they are everywhere. They are in Germany, and Italy, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Greece, Sweden, England….I can go on and on. Everywhere I go, I also see poverty, injustice, class wars, air pollution, exploitation of minorities, decimation of the natural world, refugees, and a complete disappearance of migratory paths for animals. I hope you will be writing about these things as well. As I know you would want to use your position as a “reporter” to do some good in the world. Because that’s what it’s about isn’t it? I have to say Ray, I really appreciate you mentioning that I am a talented guitar player. That would have really bothered me had you dissed my music, as music is a healing force in nature. But, sometimes I wonder if you are not a shill for the military industrial complex, as you are using your position to make accusations about me without providing any facts. Exactly who (remember – who, what, where, when, why and how?), has successfully debunked chemtrails. Really WHO? I would like to know. Seeing as I actually read other people’s words with an open mind, I would like to see some facts. Not the insulting bullshit I read on the bully pulpit forums written by ignorant cowards hiding behind their fake names. I am always willing to talk to anyone who has information for me. Please, provide me with the person who has debunked chemtrails successfully. I’d love nothing more than to put this subject to bed and free up more practice time. It seems you’re more than willing to believe other people’s second hand information. I don’t understand how you can look at some of the photos in the latest essay and not become sickened by what the air looks like in this city. Even if you didn’t think this filth was sprayed there purposely, any human that truly gave a damn about anyone that has to breathe the air should be overtaken by those images. As I said before, that just confirms my suspicions that you have no connection to the natural world.  In closing, I did want to reiterate that despite the fact that we disagree, I appreciate you bringing the matter to the public. Even if it is at the expense of my reputation as a legitimate researcher. I see by the comments to this article that apparently what I have to say is not a rare point of view. Thank you everyone for your tireless support. It keeps me going.

Bard of Ely: I was a chemtrail-believer for years and am now a non-believer, and the “debunker”, who is infamous on the Internet after being banned from YouTube and David Icke’s forums, who got me to see where I was wrong, is known as JazzRoc. I have posted a full account of how I came to believe and disbelieve in chemtrails. I agree that the skies are messed up but I no longer see a serious threat in this!

Keith Geddes: Here we go again. Here in the UK.. nearly every day theres a clear blue sky.. oh yes, we have them, sometimes briefly.. there can be as many as six high altitude planes leaving `trails`.  Now.. I don’t profess to know what the trails consist of, but my query, and it’s never been answered properly officially, is.. why so many planes up there at one time.. leaving trail upon trail making criss-cross patterns.. which do usually end up as man made clouds. I`m not saying its poison.. thats a little sensational, oh, its something unusual.. vapor clears pretty fast.. I’ve taken countless pics just like Carol’s.. the only official reply I ever had from a USAF commander I found the address of.. dispute that if you like and WHY didn’t I keep a print out.. said.. `your boys over there keep a pretty tight grip on air traffic.. I shouldn’t worry`.. well.. thing is, this could be anyone. WE in the UK know we are told what to do BY the U.S. much of the time. We are strategic to the U.S. our politicians are puppets. We know this.. and I know many over there think the same of yours. SO.. can’t DO anything about it.. no one admits anything.. `rubbish` is spouted, David Icke and such are put down as nuts, the only reason he’s still alive..ok. There have been people putting up proof seeing pics of planes with internal barrels.. but thats been proven as test aircraft. OK.

zret: Chemtrails are real! They are poisonous and lethal. Wake up before it’s too late.

Brian Coia: Your dry ignorance is a sad state of affairs. It always seems amusing to witness the inferior attributes of a journalist minority in action. What’s the purpose in your credit of placing people in your little world of “categories”?  Like every other mainstream story, seems like everyone along with everything is in a “category” these days. What a boring world Mr. Ray. Is this a trait that was learned in your schooling, or is this a personal issue that has foundation in being high on caffeine and spinning stories to meet your work ethic? There is certainty in Ms. Pellatt’s words that you provide no credible insight in proving her otherwise. Apart from this, are you feeling gratification in kicking her to the ground? To put simply, I find it both interesting and disturbing that one can look into a beautiful blue sky, watch planes cover it with swathes of murky substances that mask its beautiful blue nature, and without further contemplation of why this is happening, one is still able to say “the sky and airplanes invoke tranquility”. It would be in your best interest to spend a fair amount of time in researching this topic. Naturally, the simple approach is to shun someone who thinks outside of ones boxed-in convention. This is a very shallow and weak attempt to discredit ones understanding. Mr. Ray, would it not be best to properly bring yourself back into your story? Other than personal issues with a potential inferiority complex, I am convinced that you do have some sort of doubt as to the possibility of aerial toxic-spraying of chemicals. Truth always seems to have an interesting way of surfacing itself. At some point, you will find its accuracy.

Alan: Thank you Carole for the wonderful advocacy that you do on behalf of all those who look up and see the damage that is being done to our atmosphere. As for the Bard of Ely, give me a break! I had personal contact with Dr. McKay and he avoided our attempts to interview him for a podcast. The fact that you mentioned him in your missive makes me feel that you have been misguided by accepting “truth from sources that have not been reliable in the first place. You said, “I quoted Dr Stephen McKay, who has become well respected amongst the chemtrail-believer community for speaking out as a scientist against the threat. Dr McKay was a member of the Yahoo group forum for chemtrail tracking usa. The respect you claimed he had was not amongst the serious researchers with whom I communicate. As for JazzRoc, It was a combination of his obnoxious behavior and the use of fiction amongst facts that caused him to be shunned by those who are seeking the truth behind the curtain of secrecy regarding these aerosol spray programs. I live in New York City where hundreds, if not thousands, of flights pass overhead daily. Why do only a few jets, military in appearance, leave lingering contrails that spread out and obscure what should be a blue sky? I am not buying what the debunkers are selling simply because the hours of research that I have done point me in a direction where evidence, as well as personal observation, clearly indicate that something is not normal about these chemical contrails. For example, the beautiful (but perhaps deadly) sun dogs or rainbow-like areas of the sky that appear when spraying operations are being performed are inexplicable. My eyes don’t lie! Once again, thank you Carole for opening up the eyes of many more curious souls who sense that there is something ominous to the milky haze that is more and more constant across our once beautiful planet. When I watch astronauts working outside of the space shuttle and see a milky blue earth that matches our skies looking upward, I grow concerned. what happened to our beautiful, blue marble? I miss it.

Rosalind Kirsch: It appears that as a reporter you have not done adequate research before writing your article on Carole Pellatt’s research. Respiratory illnesses have shown a marked increase even though the number of people who smoke has decreased. There are more children diagnosed with autism than ever before. Whatever is being sprayed in our skies has to fall to earth and we, the people, continue to breathe in this noxious air. I do thank you for the article because you have brought the subject of chemtrails to many of your readers, and hopefully, wanting to know more, they will go to Carole’s websites and with open minds draw their own conclusions from the facts detailed there. By the way, Ray, the only thing you got right in your article is that Carole Pellatt is a talented musician.

Freedom Fighter: I will say this once. I have opened an investigation with the Department of Homeland Security because no one is willing to give straight talk about this issue. First, our government is saying that they are performing weather modification. ISDAC – Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign is up and running; we have fixed wing aircraft from private companies and universities performing the tests, there is the proof that there is something fishy happening. VooDoo1 is the aircraft and there are many more. Let’s start with this one though. look at the history of the aircraft and who owns it…www.raytheon.com – Missile defense, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; precision strike; homeland security and technical services is what this company does…I ask this of everyone. Ask questions and get answers. Also, look at the Georgia Guidestones and population at 500,000,000. Where are 80% of the people going??? THIS IS REAL…call DHS and ask them to investigate! A tax paying citizen of the United States.

David Morrison: for hard info on this google: morgellon’s disease and louisiana chemtrail story jeff ferrel. The term chemtrail was actually invented by the air force in a training manual, not by Dennis Kucinich who tried to have them banned as an exotic weapon. When you breathe on a cold day does your breath hang in the air for hours or your car exhaust? Chemtrails can be seen at high and low altitudes, there have been rainwater tests, soil tests, and direct identification of nanoparticles by a Dr. Hildegarde Staninger of California. Check it out, don’t rely on your belief system. Believing is not knowing and trusting in blind faith.

California Citizen: There are reasons to deny that chemtrails are not real: a) You’re not paying attention, which is probably a small percentage; ie: those on meds, elderly etc.  b) You could lose your job over taking the wrong stance.  c) You believe you’re part of the infrastructure that is covertly protecting us with secret weapons.  d) You like the idea of hurting people by the millions and knowing they can’t do anything about it.   e) You’d rather live in fear and submission than speak the truth.  f) And most importantly, you don’t believe in Christ being in control, and are not trusting in Him. Romans 10 vs. 9 and 10. Where do you fit in?

Well, I replied to this page, and got no reply, no letter of mine was published, and yet this column went on to diss me and tell lies as to my actions. Well, that’s what you get when there is no freedom of speech. Lies and distortions. Below I publish my letter: it isn’t very polite, but then people for whom I have no respect shouldn’t expect politeness from me…

I’ve always found Strategic Air Command to be wonderfully restful.

Me too. The bland nature of the dialogue, the horrific nature of the task (Strangeloveish – and never mentioned!).

I have been a sky watcher for 40 years. I know the difference between a contrail, vapor trail, and a chemtrail.

And me for fifty. And I’m a scientist, have run and tested jet engines, and know that a contrail IS a “vapor trail” and that chemtrails don’t exist.

Chemtrails are real and you have to be blind not to see it.

Chemtrails are a figment of your imagination (and a falsehood) and there’s no way you could ever prove otherwise.

The authorities are lying when they say they are not spraying something in the atmosphere. We are not zany theorists but intelligent humans that know what we see in front of us.

They are telling the truth, and I know it is you who is lying, by asserting something I know to be false and something you cannot prove.

Choose to be blind if you want, but some day the truth will come out.

Well its been ten years since it was claimed to have begun, and so far there hasn’t been ONE case of death, or ONE case of whistle-blowing, or ONE case of a crashed plane with mysterious substances, etc., etc.

The chemtrailing is REAL.

In your mind only. Out there it is business as usual, with 300,000,000 tons of ice crystals entering the stratosphere each year. Of course, these tend to turn skies white.

Get off your fat behind and do your research.

Research which doesn’t exclude the word “chemtrails” ISN’T research – it’s merely delusory confirmation from other deluded people. In science this is known as “confirmation bias” and is something scientists strive carefully to remove.

There is real research and proof out there.

There is REAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH and NO PROOF of chemtrails out there. You just have to enter “chemtrails” as an EXCLUSION when you use a search engine…

Think about it…our country is run by Big Oil.

That may be correct. But what’s the relevance?

They make our jet fuel and can formulate it any way they want.

That isn’t how it’s done. Each refinery makes up its own contracts and formulations to standards which are openly published.

AND they control what we put in our vehicles. Have you looked into what additives are mixed with our gasoline?

And have been done so since gasoline first came on the market. They are NOT nice! Nor relevant…

It doesn’t take Einstein to figure out something is not right here. All you have to do is LOOK UP.

Look up, and you’ll see the Sun go round the Earth. Does it? Why not? Answer this question.

I recently drove up to Prescott to see if moving there would help me breathe better. But the Chemtrails were just as thick. We’re talking criss-crossing heavy attacks to our upper atmosphere.

Obviously more relevant than auto fumes, photochemical urban smog, pollens, and general manufacturing and agricultural dusts in the air…

Please quit shunning concerned readers with your ignorance.

Are you talking into your mirror?

The next time you see these jets spraying and littering the skies with these poisons, run a HEPA filter (new filter) outside for as long as you see the spraying and then have the filter tested for its content. You don’t want to know the results! Keep in mind that you are breathing this crap in, as are your family members.

You could also try it at a time when there are NO jet trails in the air. That would be SCIENCE. You’ll find NO DIFFERENCE.

“Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”

SO STOP CONDEMNING, BECAUSE YOU SURE AIN’T INVESTIGATING.

“black helicopter poetry”, “debunked chemtrail theory” and “obsession” that your words are completely unprovable and rather hostile and biased.

The burden of proof rests upon YOU. Are you SURE you’re not talking into your mirror?

a) Military reports, b) any information-factual-that I’ve posted on my website, c) any reports or studies on weather modification, d) electromagnetic weapons, e) H.A.A.R.P.

Are not relevant at all.

That’s not much of a defense for debunkers.

Debunkers don’t have to DEFEND. YOU have to PROVE.

Researchers do not rely on the news to get their information.

Nor on established atmospheric and scientific research, apparently.

outside the loop of the reality of science, specifically science in the service of the military industrial complex

Is what you are. You should read a library book sometime. There is a list of books to read at jazzroc.wordpress.com

out of touch with nature, real clouds, and contrails.

Whew! Hypocritical or what?

I know these experiments started just after WWII (documented fact), and they were called “contrails” when referring to weather modification (ex. report called “Using Airplane Contrails to Change The Weather”)

NOBODY has “modified weather”. Cloud-seeding is just that – seeding a cloud, for liberating rain.

“chaff” when referring to discharging electromagnetic interrupting materials from jets.

Chaff was used in WWII (it was called ‘window’) for producing false radar images. It is INERT and HARMLESS.

they are everywhere.

Civil transportation (laying persistent contrails in humid air) is EVERYWHERE.

poverty, injustice, class wars, air pollution, exploitation of minorities, decimation of the natural world, refugees, and a complete disappearance of migratory paths for animals.

ARE ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

do some good in the world. Because that’s what it’s about isn’t it?

YES. So why don’t you quit with the falsehoods, lies, smears, slanders, and libels? That will end the harm you are doing. AFTER THAT you might do something useful.

I wonder if you are not a shill for the military industrial complex

Yes. We understand that anyone that disagrees with you is a “shill”.

Exactly who has successfully debunked chemtrails. Really WHO? I would like to know. Seeing as I actually read other people’s words with an open mind, I would like to see some facts.

Try WIKI, contrailscience.com, jazzroc.wordpress.com. IT IS YOU who are out of touch with nature, real clouds, and contrails.

Not the insulting bullshit I read on the bully pulpit forums written by ignorant cowards hiding behind their fake names.

“Get off your fat behind” – “authorities are lying” – “you have to be blind” – “outside the loop of the reality” – “you are a shill” – “out of touch with nature” – “you have no connection to the natural world” – “you’re more than willing to believe other people’s second hand information” – INSULTING BULLSHIT WRITTEN BY YOU.

I’d love nothing more than to put this subject to bed and free up more practice time.

PLEASE DO IT.

It seems you’re more than willing to believe other people’s second hand information.

That mirror again?

I don’t understand how you can not become sickened by what the air looks like in this city. Even if you didn’t think this filth was sprayed there purposely, any human that truly gave a damn about anyone that has to breathe the air should be overtaken with those images. As I said before, that just verifies to me my suspicions that you have no connection to the natural world.

You have no connection with science, logic, or truth. Mirror.

I appreciate you bringing the matter to the public. Even if it is at the expense of my reputation as a legitimate researcher.

You have no such reputation.

I see that what I have to say is not a rare point of view.

No, it isn’t. Others, like you, are also quite prepared to self-aggrandize themselves and slander others, all without any factual proof of what they claim, simply because they are basically uneducated in the science of their atmosphere.

Not only that, but here you bear false witness against me, and also do not print my reply.

So much for your ideas on “fair debate” and “wishing to discover truth”.

  

VAPOR VANISHING

“When vapor is in the exposed to the sun it vanishes rather quickly.” – FALSE. WATER “VAPOR” ISN’T VISIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE! CONTRAILS ARE FINELY-DIVIDED ICE CRYSTALS which are FALLING VERY SLOWLY.

If they are falling through SATURATED AIR they CANNOT BE REABSORBED, sunshine or no sunshine.

Sunlight shining on ICE bounces off (that is why trails are WHITE in sunlight) and consequently CANNOT HEAT IT. Any heat it receives is immediately conducted to the AIR AT -40 DEG.

  

VAPOR 1

“Water vapor does not form haze and hazey clouds” – Water vapor is an INVISIBLE GAS. It CAN form HAZE and HAZY CLOUDS.

“The closest thing to a water vapor haze is fog” – There is NO SUCH THING as WATER VAPOR HAZE.

“Notice how fog burns away when the sun comes out” – that happens DOWN HERE. It does NOT HAPPEN in the STRATOSPHERE.

“Chemtrail haze does not burn off like natural fog” – “chemtrail haze” DOESN’T EXIST.

“So there’s a very high probability that it’s not water vapor” – NO. What you see is ICE that cannot sublime, because it is in SATURATED AIR.

“it’s a contrail and conhaze” – NAMELY FINE ICE CRYSTALS. Someone has conned you and hazed you.

“contrails do not last for hours because the heat from jet exhaust is what creates the condensation” – YOU ARE WRONG. It is the COMBUSTED HYDROGEN of the BURNT DECANE which makes STEAM at 1100 deg C which “is what creates the condensation”.

“in humid air usually above 30K ft” – ALL AIR IS HUMID. A TRAIL WILL FORM TEMPORARILY IF THE RELATIVE HUMIDITY IS 95% BUT PERMANENTLY IF IT IS 100%. At the poles trails can form at ground level.

“Once the heat is gone so is the trail” – RUBBISH. When the STEAM cools down to -40 deg C (the temperature it IS up there!) it becomes FINE ICE CRYSTALS. They cannot melt or evaporate.

“chemtrails are not water vapor” – SURE ENOUGH. THEY DON’T EXIST. THEY DON’T EXIST. THEY DON’T EXIST.

“If chemtrails were not a covert operation, we would hear propaganda just like we do with flouride in the water supply” – BUT IF THEY DIDN’T EXIST AT ALL WE’D HEAR BUGGER ALL ANYWAY.

And it’s FLUORIDE – O “expert” (censored).

fluoride

  

VAPOR 2

“Vapor exposed to the sun vanishes.” – FALSE. VAPOR ISN’T VAPOR AT -40 deg C but tiny ICE CRYSTALS. Falling through SATURATED AIR they CAN’T BE REABSORBED. Sunlight bounces off ICE (trails are WHITE in sunlight!) so CAN’T HEAT IT. Water vapor itself is INVISIBLE.

“GeoEngineering”? – HAHA…

Proportional to AREA of the EARTH the area of the US is INSIGNIFICANT at <2%.

Re POLLUTION OF THE EARTH, Man takes THIRD PLACE behind burning forests, rotting tundra, farting animals, & 1500 ACTIVE VOLCANOES. & 10,000 UNDERSEA ONES !

  

VENT

When aircraft experience soon after take-off an on-board “incident” which requires them to IMMEDIATELY land, they actually CANNOT do so.

They are fully-laden with passengers, freight and fuel and TOO HEAVY TO LAND. If they did, their brakes would burn out and their tyres would explode. The bill? THREE MILLION BUCKS! In order to avoid that bill, they VENT FUEL.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SEEING with that underwing shot.

To represent this the way you do is BEYOND ALL DECENT BEHAVIOR.

 

WET

atacama

The WHOLE of the atmosphere is WET with WATER. The highest desert in the world, Atacama, has some of the world’s driest air, but elsewhere the air is WET.
In general there is little or no difference in wetness between clouds (non-transparent and raining) and the clear air between them. Air turns to clouds and clouds turn back to air. What goes on involves transformations of temperatures and dewpoints – all driven by the SUN.

 

WETTER LETTIS

WetLettice – “u want to tell US the common sensed people” – Givemeabreakgivemeab…

“disinfo bullshit” – Codeword for SCIENCE.

“for the feeble minded but you won’t find many here” – Far be it for me to insult EVERYONE.

“Pointing people to “experts”” – No, I offered a CHOICE: read up on it, or take the advice of EXPERTS (which you are NOT!)

“traitor to mankind” – People who claim science to be disinformation are THAT.

“will be judged” – By your imaginary friend? No.

“Go crawl in your hole” – It’s an apartment standing in a desert near a sea shore. The sky is clear and blue.

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“you’re in league” – Man, NOBODY owns me, and I owe NOTHING. I’M FREE! (Looks over shoulder to check whether the missus’s around!)

“subverting and perverting something that belongs to the most powerful” – As an atheist it ill behoves me to say “Oh, God!”

“he doesn’t like it” – “JESUS!”

“Your God (Lucifer) is a lier, imposter and a theif” – At least Ole’ Lucy taught me how to spell…

“You’ll outlive me in this life” – I’m 64. Are you sure?

bzbz – “F O J!” – Get back to your puppets…

WetLettice – “I don’t think jazzroc is an paid “agent”” – Change of tune? Did you look me up and check out my intro? No, they didn’t pay me, they taught me to play music, turned me into a musician because everyone knows musicians are cheap, cheap, cheap.

“He lacks the intellect/goes along with what he’s told” – That’s why my video is astonishingly BAD. It’s all clear to me now.

“sticking to popular opionion” – OPIONIONS (Indian onions) stick to the pan…

“advancing the NWO agenda” – I should have got you to define this.

“unknowingly serving the darkness” – We’ve been communicating, folks, hence the slight warming!

spelingcorectness – “google chemtrails, chemicals mixed with kerosine” – Would put out the flame.(http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gVctfPGY3BI)

“stop earth warming” – 3.4 million tons of aluminum/barium would take a WHILE to deploy.

“weakening ur immune system” – See George Carlin “You are all diseased” on that. Hilarious!

“real poison” – REAL POISON IS TRASH LIKE THIS.

“chemtrails cause cancer” – CHEMTRAILS DON’T EXIST.

“no doubt” – This really GETS me. After repeating baseless lies to each other, and WITHOUT ANY PROOF WHAT SO EVER, you have NO DOUBT. Back to the corner of the class for you. GO READ A TEXT BOOK. STOP TALKING. IT’S JUST NOISE, NOT INFORMATION!

“water is poisoned too, the chemicals rain down!” – Well, personally I was NEVER a fan of untrammeled private enterprise, but it seems YOU folks have got yourself POISONED GROUNDWATER and POISONED AIR the great and free USA way. Nor am I a fan of the (NWO) because I am an ANARCHIST as well as an ATHEIST. You may have GOT what you ASKED for…

anarchism