JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Facts and “Chemtrail” Fictions

Posts Tagged ‘pressure

Types of Contrails

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PAGE CONTENTS

GROUND LEVEL – EARLIEST PHOTO – WAVE VORTICES – PROPELLER VORTICES – ‘SHOCK’ CLOUDS

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

GROUND LEVEL

(TROPOSPHERIC)“ectoplasm and wave vortex”

heavy-landing

This aircraft is on approach in humid stormy conditions. Its wheels are down and its flaps are set at fifteen degrees. A temporary “cloud” is visible over the flapped part of the wing indicating the strong pressure reduction caused by the extended flaps, and flowing back from the outermost flap edges is a pair of very strong vortices (“ectoplasm”!) thrown into sharp relief by the clouds of water droplets condensed by the severe reduction in air pressure at their centres. The vortices rise and fall with pressure fluctuations, generated in part by ambient conditions, and also changes in aircraft attitude. Some distance behind the aircraft its wave vortex is remarkably apparent. This is the “mixing engine” that causes contrails to fill supersaturated stratospheric layers.

Why are vortices so stable? Because they spin. Their rotational energy is high, and they can only be brought to a stop by viscous friction between them and the surrounding atmosphere.

The pillar of a tornado is a natural vortex, and is also typically so energetic that water vapor condenses into a “mist” (of water droplets) in the core of its vortex from what one might call the “centrifugal pressure drop” – but one shouldn’t – because the real reason for this condensation is the drop in temperature which occurs as a consequence of this drop in pressure.

THE EARLIEST PHOTO

OF PERSISTENT CONTRAILS (a.k.a. “chemtrails”)


stpauls2-comp

The left-hand side of the picture was probably taken towards the end of August 1940, when the first high-altitude gun battles were being fought between the RAF and the Luftwaffe. The participants were Hawker Hurricanes and Me 109s, which were both fitted with superchargers which enabled them to manoever and fight at around 27,000 ft. The photo is taken over St. Paul’s Cathedral, London. Apologies for the poor state of the picture, but who knows how many times this picture has been copied…

There is a barrack-room lawyer who has claimed the above picture to be fake. If so, then so is this:

stpauls-3.jpg

Seeing that I am still being spammed by this guy and others, I’m forced to point out the obvious…

These are NOT identical pictures, they ARE of St. Paul’s Cathedral, they are obviously fighter battles, and just as obviously NOT anti-aircraft fire, they AREN’T obscured by much bomb smoke because fighter battles tend to PRECEDE major bombing, as the bombers wouldn’t be able to survive fighter attacks. The defending fighters would have had to be “cleared” first, which is what happened.

As they AREN’T identical, (and yet one can see elements common to both) these pictures VALIDATE EACH OTHER. (I’m not sure that a NASA site would use “made up” material. Why would they need to, in this instance?) They are, of course, NOT the only pictures available for validation either…

The right-hand side of the first picture is a more contemporary copy of St. Paul’s for comparison.

HU034078

And here is another picture of St. Paul’s, taken somewhat later in the war, where Allied bombers are circling to assemble prior to setting out to attack Germany. In this case one may discern further familiar contrail features such as ice agglomeration, falling, and shear. 

WAVE VORTEX (1)

downwash

This was originally titled “Cessna Downwash” but a better name for it is “aircraft and its wave vortex climbing through clouds”. The powerful vortex generated by the pressure difference (inflight) between the topside and underside of aircraft wings is responsible for the lift which keeps the aircraft aloft and also the drag which demands the power input from its engines. The wave vortex of a jumbo jet has been known to cause light aircraft to crash five minutes AFTER the jumbo has passed. It causes “distrails” (negative contrails – ice crystal trail agglomeration and descent) and much furore in the “chemtrail community” where it is thought to be some new and misunderstood aspect of “spraying”. In reality it is the “mixing engine” which causes contrails to fill stratospheric layers with ice, and as a consequence, turn blue skies to white skies. (The”chemtrail” community immediately starts coughing!)

Let me quote you one of our “heroes” who calls himself skywitness because he believes himself to be a lone watcher of the skies on the side of the brave and true. (But on the other hand he blocked me immediately from his channel and then pursued me avidly through other channels’ comment boxes, claiming his contrail videos were irrefutable proof of “chemtrail spraying”). He asks:

“I would like to know if anyone has seen a rip in the clouds as it was taking place. Was it something that flew through the cloud, or did it just start to appear out of nowhere? I have seen more than a few of these type of rips or trails, but I have never seen how it takes place…”

All I’m asking is that anyone that knows him and reads this, could you get back to him and put him out of his misery? 

WAVE VORTEX (2)

wave vortex 2

The USAF transport plane has just released its “decoy” flares into what would have been its invisible wave vortex. Chemtrailers in particular have to realise that this twin vortex extends backwards (and keeps rotating!) for at least fifty miles behind the airplane, and also, whether it is visible or not, it is always there.

These flares, by-the-way, are making the only definite “chemtrails” that can be proven to exist. Wherever this smoke falls, it will provide a few plants with a little extra fertilizer…

….Aaaaah. And of course I completely forgot these:

fireworks

 PROPELLER VORTICES

These have also been fervently denied by the relentlessly science-blind as “figments of a feverish imagination”.

Like this:

"figments" from WWII Flying Fortresses

"figments" from WWII Flying Fortresses

And this:

"Figments" of a C-130 Tanker

"Figments" of a C-130 Tanker

And this:

"Figments" of a Kear Cobra helicopter

"Figments" of a Kear Cobra helicopter

And this:

"Figments" of a Catalina

"Figments" of a Catalina

 ‘SHOCK’ CLOUDS

(Also known as a “Mach Cones”):

supersonic

Stunning!

Mach Cone of today's B-17

Mach Cone of today's B-17

Wow! (Conspicuous consumption or what?)

mach-cone

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Trails Seen from Space

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PAGE CONTENTS

ATLANTIC OCEAN – MID-EUROPE – THE CROW INSTABILITY – MORE ABOUT VORTICES – THE 9-11 VORTEX – THE “THIRD” TRAIL – SUPERSATURATION – “GAPS” – FUEL VENTS – AIRBUS 340 RTO BRAKE TEST

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

ATLANTIC OCEAN

atlanticsat

A monochrome view of the North Atlantic Ocean by AtlanticSat shows Greenland, Iceland, the British Isles, and part of Norway. Prominent in the photo is a north-south ridge of high pressure, with cold dry air to the west, and warmer wetter air to the east. Aircraft approaching or leaving this ridge have struck permanent contrail conditions on its west side. The trails are at even intervals which suggest there are only TWO great-circle routes involved (London-New York and London LAX) with regular flights from each. The stratosphere (where the trails are) is obviously moving north-to-south.
The trails peter out approaching or leaving the British Isles, where the wetter conditons don’t obtain (for a change).
Chemtrailers must ask themselves why the pilots’ aim was so poor…

MID-EUROPE

mid-europe

Here we are centered roughly over Hamburg; Copenhagen is right center top and the Baltic Sea further to the right. We are looking at a “triangle” of air travel activity between Kiel (center top), Berlin (bottom right) and the Rhineland (bottom left).
You can see evidence that the stratosphere is sliding along at possibly 100kph from the northwest – maybe!

THE CROW INSTABILITY

TRAIL 5

I originally thought these were local control surface vortices, but I have been better advised since, by Jay Reynolds. Thanks, Jay!

MORE ABOUT VORTICES

The Crow instability is a vortex pair instability, and typically goes through several stages:
– A pair of counter rotating vortices act upon each other to amplify small sinusoidal distortions in their vortex shapes (Normally created by some initial disturbance in the system).
– The waves develop into either symmetric or anti-symmetric modes, depending on the nature of the initial disturbance.
– These distortions grow, both through interaction from one vortex on another, and also ‘Self Induction’ of a vortex with itself. This leads to an exponential growth in the vortex wave amplitude.
– The vortex amplitudes reach a critical value and reconnect, forming a chain of vortex rings.

Initially the vortex pair falls rapidly downward. Perturbations of the vortices from the ambient atmosphere grow in a sinusoidal mutual inductance instability (the Crow instability). Eventually the vortices touch, reconnect and form vortex rings which oscillate, interact with themselves and the atmospheric turbulence and stratification, and finally dissolve. During their lifetime the rings continue to drop, giving rise to the periodic series of puffs often seen in contrail evolution.
These are spin-stabilized and follow the deflected air and take a while to spin to a stop. Ice is precipitated out of the -40 deg C water vapor in the vortex vacua. Altogether an intriguing visual phenomenon!
http://www.cerfacs.fr/cfd/wake_vortex_26.php is a useful reference…

And this low-quality video reveals…

And this high-quality video shows how far our understanding has progressed…

# A vortex (plural: vortices) is a spinning, often turbulent, flow of fluid.  Any spiral motion with closed streamlines is vortex flow. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortices

Vortices display some special properties:
* The fluid pressure in a vortex is lowest in the center (where the speed is greatest) and rises progressively with distance from the center. This is in accordance with Bernoulli’s Principle. The core of a vortex in air is sometimes visible because of a plume of water vapor caused by condensation in the low pressure of the core. The spout of a tornado is a classic and frightening example of the visible core of a vortex. A dust devil is also the core of a vortex, made visible by the dust drawn upwards by the turbulent flow of air from ground level into the low pressure core.

* The core of every vortex can be considered to contain a vortex line, and every particle in the vortex can be considered to be circulating around the vortex line. Vortex lines can start and end at the boundary of the fluid or form closed loops. They cannot start or end in the fluid. (See Helmholtz’s theorems.) Vortices readily deflect and attach themselves to a solid surface. For example, a vortex usually forms ahead of the propeller disk or jet engine of a slow-moving airplane. One end of the vortex line is attached to the propeller disk or jet engine, but when the airplane is taxiing the other end of the vortex line readily attaches itself to the ground rather than end in midair. The vortex can suck water and small stones into the core and then into the propeller disk or jet engine.

* Two or more vortices that are approximately parallel and circulating in the same direction will merge to form a single vortex. The circulation of the merged vortex will equal the sum of the circulations of the constituent vortices. For example, a sheet of small vortices flows from the trailing edge of the wing or propeller of an airplane when the wing is developing lift or the propeller is developing thrust. In less than one wing chord downstream of the trailing edge of the wing these small vortices merge to form a single vortex. If viewed from the tail of the airplane, looking forward in the direction of flight, there is one wingtip vortex trailing from the left-hand wing and circulating clockwise, and another wingtip vortex trailing from the right-hand wing and circulating anti-clockwise. The result is a region of downwash behind the wing, between the pair of wingtip vortices. These two wingtip vortices do not merge because they are circulating in opposite directions.

* Vortices contain a lot of energy in the circular motion of the fluid. In an ideal fluid this energy can never be dissipated and the vortex would persist forever. However, real fluids exhibit viscosity and this dissipates energy very slowly from the core of the vortex. (See Rankine vortex). It is only through dissipation of a vortex due to viscosity that a vortex line can end in the fluid, rather than at the boundary of the fluid. For example, the wingtip vortices from an airplane dissipate slowly and linger in the atmosphere long after the airplane has passed. This is a hazard to other aircraft and is known as wake turbulence.

Cause and effects
A wing generates aerodynamic lift by creating a region of lower air pressure above it. Fluids are forced to flow from high to low pressure and the air below the wing tends to migrate toward the top of the wing via the wingtips. The air does not escape around the leading or trailing edge of the wing due to airspeed, but it can flow around the tip. Consequently, air flows from below the wing and out around the tip to the top of the wing in a circular fashion.  This leakage will raise the pressure on top of the wing and reduce the lift that the wing can generate. It also produces an emergent flow pattern with low pressure in the center surrounded by fast-moving air with curved streamlines.  Wingtip vortices only affect the portion of the wing closest to the tip. Thus, the longer the wing, the smaller the affected fraction of it will be. As well, the shorter the chord of the wing, the less opportunity air will have to form vortices. This means that for an aircraft to be most efficient, it should have a very high aspect ratio.  This is evident in the design of gliders.  It is also evident in long-range airliners, where fuel efficiency is of critical importance.  However, increasing the wingspan reduces the maneuverability of the aircraft, which is why combat and aerobatic planes usually feature short, stubby wings despite the efficiency losses.

Another method of reducing fuel consumption is the use of winglets, as seen on some modern airliners such as the Airbus A340. Winglets work by forcing the vortex to move to the very tip of the wing and allowing the entire span to produce lift, thereby effectively increasing the aspect ratio of the wing.  Winglets also change the pattern of vorticity in the core of the vortex pattern, spreading it out and reducing the kinetic energy in the circular air flow, which reduces the amount of fuel expended to perform work by the wing upon the spinning air. Winglets can yield worthwhile economy improvements on long-distance flights.

Visibility of vortices due to water condensation and freezing

The cores of the vortices are sometimes visible because water present in them condenses from gas (vapor) to liquid, and sometimes even freezes, forming ice particles.  The phase of water (i.e. whether it assumes the form of a solid, liquid, or gas) is determined by its temperature and pressure.  For example, in the case of liquid-gas transition, at each pressure there is a special “transition temperature” Tc such that if the sample temperature is even a little above Tc, the sample will be a gas, but if the sample temperature is even a little below Tc, the sample will be a liquid; see phase transition.

For example, at the standard atmospheric pressure, Tc is 100 °C = 212 °F.  The transition temperature Tc decreases with decreasing pressure (which explains why water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes and at higher temperatures in a pressure cooker; see here for more information).  In the case of water vapor in air, the Tc corresponding to the partial pressure of water vapor is called the dew point. (The solid-liquid transition also happens around a specific transition temperature called the melting point. For most substances, the melting point also decreases with decreasing pressure, although water ice in particular—in its Ih form, which is the most familiar one—is a prominent exception to this rule.)
Vortex cores are regions of low pressure. As a vortex core begins to form, the water in the air (in the region that is about to become the core) is in vapor phase, which means that the local temperature is above the local dew point. After the vortex core forms, the pressure inside it has decreased from the ambient value, and so the local dew point (Tc) has dropped from the ambient value. Thus, in and of itself, a drop in pressure would tend to keep water in vapor form: the initial dew point was already below the ambient air temperature, and the formation of the vortex has made the local dew point even lower.
However, as the vortex core forms, its pressure (and so its dew point) is not the only property that is dropping: the vortex-core temperature is dropping also, and in fact it can drop by much more than the dew point does, as we now explain.
To a first approximation, the formation of vortex cores is thermodynamically an adiabatic process, i.e. one with no exchange of heat. In such a process, the drop in pressure is accompanied by a drop in temperature, according to the equation

Here Ti and pi are the absolute temperature and pressure at the beginning of the process (here equal to the ambient air temperature and pressure), Tf and pf are the absolute temperature and pressure in the vortex core (which is the end result of the process), and the constant γ is about 7/5 = 1.4 for air.
Thus, even though the local dew point inside the vortex cores is even lower than in the ambient air, the water vapor may nevertheless condense—if the formation of the vortex brings the local temperature below the new local dew point. Let us verify that this can indeed happen under realistic conditions.  For a typical transport aircraft landing at an airport, these conditions are as follows: we may take Ti and pi to have values corresponding to the so-called standard conditions, i.e. pi = 1 atm = 1013.25 mb = 101\,325 Pa and Ti = 293.15 K (which is 20 °C = 68 °F).

We will take the relative humidity to be a comfortable 35% (dew point of 4.1 °C = 39.4 °F). This corresponds to a partial pressure of water vapor of 820 Pa = 8.2 mb.

We will assume that in a vortex core, the pressure (pf) drops to about 80% of the ambient pressure, i.e. to about 80 000 Pa.
Let us first determine the temperature in the vortex core. It is given by the equation above as


Next, we determine the dew point in the vortex core. The partial pressure of water in the vortex core drops in proportion to the drop in the total pressure (i.e. by the same percentage), to about 650 Pa = 6.5 mb. According to a dew point calculator at this site (alternatively one may use the Antoine equation to obtain an approximate value), that partial pressure results in the local dew point of about 0.86 °C; in other words, the new local dew point is about equal to the new local temperature.
Therefore, the case we have been considering is a marginal case; if the relative humidity of the ambient air were even a bit higher (with the total pressure and temperature remaining as above), then the local dew point inside the vortices would rise, while the local temperature would remain the same as what we have just found. Thus the local temperature would now be lower than the local dew point, and so the water vapor inside the vortices would indeed condense.
Under right conditions, the local temperature in vortex cores may drop below the local freezing point, in which case ice particles will form inside the vortex cores.
We have just seen that the water-vapor condensation mechanism in wingtip vortices is driven by local changes in air pressure and temperature. This is to be contrasted to what happens in another well-known case of water condensation related to airplanes: the contrails from airplane engine exhausts. In the case of contrails, the local air pressure and temperature do not change significantly; what matters instead is that the exhaust contains both water vapor (which increases the local water-vapor concentration and so its partial pressure, resulting in elevated dew point and freezing point) as well as aerosols (which provide nucleation centers for the condensation and freezing).
Condensation of water vapor in wing tip vortices is most common on aircraft flying at high angles of attack, such as fighter aircraft in high g maneuvers, or airliners taking off and landing on humid days.

Observations
A vortex can be seen in the spiraling motion of air or liquid around a center of rotation. Circular current of water of conflicting tides form vortex shapes.
Turbulent flow makes many vortices. A good example of a vortex is the atmospheric phenomenon of a whirlwind or a tornado or dust devil. This whirling air mass mostly takes the form of a helix, column, or spiral. Tornadoes develop from severe thunderstorms, usually spawned from squall lines and supercell thunderstorms, though they sometimes happen as a result of a hurricane.

In atmospheric physics, a mesovortex is on the scale of a few miles (smaller than a hurricane but larger than a tornado). On a much smaller scale, a vortex is usually formed as water goes down a drain, as in a sink or a toilet. This occurs in water as the revolving mass forms a whirlpool. This whirlpool is caused by water flowing out of a small opening in the bottom of a basin or reservoir. This swirling flow structure within a region of fluid flow opens downward from the water surface.

Instances

* In the hydrodynamic interpretation of the behavior of electromagnetic fields, the acceleration of electric fluid in a particular direction creates a positive vortex of magnetic fluid. This in turn creates around itself a corresponding negative vortex of electric fluid.
* Smoke ring : A ring of smoke which persists for a surprisingly long time, illustrating the slow rate at which viscosity dissipates the energy of a vortex.
* Lift-induced drag of a wing on an aircraft.

* The primary cause of drag in the sail of a sloop.
* Whirlpool: a swirling body of water produced by ocean tides or by a hole underneath the vortex where the water would drain out, such as a bathtub. A large, powerful whirlpool is known as a maelstrom. In popular imagination, but only rarely in reality, they can have the dangerous effect of destroying boats. Examples are Scylla and Charybdis of classical mythology in the Straits of Messina, Italy; the Naruto whirlpools of Nankaido, Japan; the Maelstrom, Lofoten, Norway.

* Tornado : a violent windstorm characterized by a twisting, funnel-shaped cloud. A less violent version of a tornado, over water, is called a waterspout.
* Hurricane : a much larger, swirling body of clouds produced by evaporating warm ocean water and influenced by the Earth’s rotation. Similar, but far greater, vortices are also seen on other planets, such as the permanent Great Red Spot on Jupiter and the intermittent Great Dark Spot on Neptune.

* Polar vortex : a persistent, large-scale cyclone centered near the Earth’s poles, in the middle and upper troposphere and the stratosphere.
* Sunspot : dark region on the Sun’s surface (photosphere) marked by a lower temperature than its surroundings, and intense magnetic activity.
* The accretion disk of a black hole or other massive gravitational source.
* Spiral galaxy : a type of galaxy in the Hubble sequence which is characterized by a thin, rotating disk. Earth’s galaxy, the Milky Way, is of this type.

# VORTEX – The Verification of the Origins of Rotation in Tornadoes Experiment or VORTEX, field projects study tornadoes. VORTEX1 was the first time scientists completely researched the entire evolution of a tornado enabling a greater understanding of the processes involved with tornadogenesis. …

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VORTEX

THE 9-11 VORTEX

As explained previously, vortices that come into contact with each reconfigure each other, regenerating intermediate “rings”, and ALL vortices will “stick” to a plane surface – like the ground (tornado), or the face of a building (World Trade Center Tower 2).

The Boeing 767, weighing around 180,000 kilograms and traveling at 260 meters/second, was pulling up in about a 2G banking turn before it struck the tower, so the energy it was putting into its (invisible) WAVE VORTEX was twice the normal, it occurred to me, so might not there be EVIDENCE of its existence in the smoke and dust after the collision?

Evidence there is, in embarrassing plenty. Embarrassing for “no-planers”, anyway, if they were to be well-informed and curious enough to CONTINUE TO WATCH after the collision took place. An oxymoron, I think.

Check back to confirm this if you like…

So now “no-planers” would HAVE to claim that the video artists that “falsified” these images were experts in aerodynamics as well.

To which the answer is OCCAM…

.

THE “THIRD” TRAIL…

apu-3.jpg

In this case the fifth… is the trail left by the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) which is a normal (but small) gas turbine/electrical generator set. As with the main engines, it burns kerosine to form carbon dioxide and steam. As with the main engines, it leaves a trail. But where’s it coming from?

SUPERSATURATION

“the whole plane is spraying”

TRAIL 13

When stratospheric air is very clean and stable it may contain MORE water vapour than it does when it is described as having 100% Relative Humidity. The slightest disturbance to it will cause ice crystals to precipitate out of it. It cannot go into super-saturation if there are ANY nucleative materials of any sort in this air.
Here is just such a case, which occurs on occasion in the sub-tropical stratosphere. The trail forms by “burst condensation” into super-cooled droplets which are microscopic initially and can refract sunlight by interference. Over a small space of time these droplets grow progressively as water vapor deposits more supercooled water into them. As they progressively increase their size they run through a progression of light frequencies which they interfere with. This is NOT a refraction effect.

Chemtrailers claim the colors to be indicative of “foreign materials” which is quite the reverse of the truth; only pure water will do this, and only pure air will have become supersaturated in the first place.
The fact that in supersaturated conditions, large aircraft can place thousands of tons of ice into the stratosphere is covered by the paper “Contrails to Cirrus” mentioned in the INTRODUCTION page.
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/01-compendium/

“GAPS”

TRAIL 6

“Gaps” are claimed by chemtrailers as “evidence that planes are spraying”. Such gaps will of course appear in any persistent contrail where the stratospheric air RH falls below 100%. Generally, of course, the humidity tails off gradually, and the transition of trail-to-no-trail is quite indistinct.
In THIS case, the “transition” is a hard and sharp right angle. Too sharp, in fact, for a whirling twin-vortex contrail… Close inspection of the “sky” each side of the “gap” shows it to be comprised of a chemtrailer’s vertical “airbrush strokes”! Naughty!

FUEL VENTS

vent

Here we have an aircraft actually spraying something; it’s fuel. If some in-flight emergency occurs and the plane must make a quick landing, it must first lose weight, for it cannot land at its take-off weight. Some of its fuel must GO.

Chemtrailers are quick to claim this shot as “spraying evidence”.

conspiracy-pixels

6 Porkies

with 4 comments

PAGE CONTENTS

6 PORKIES – AEROSOLS – THE ATMOSPHERE – THE WMO – ATMOSNAPS

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

 

“PORK PIE” = “LIE”  – Cockney rhyming slang. 

porkpie

6 PORKIES

“Obviously your alleged credentials are fraud” – has your short-term memory passed away? ONE.

“A true person of Science would step forward and lay all questions to rest” – ditto, and I have. Check my comments here. Check http://www.contrailscience.com. Check http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc TWO.

“You do nothing” – I COULD start pasting again… THREE.

“It is safe to assume that people’s claims must have basis” – assuming is the only action you do. Why not educate yourself in science? FOUR.

“I’d like nothing more than for someone to prove nothing is going on” – FIVE.

“You are by far not only a fraud but a coward as well” – GIANT PORKY NUMBER SIX.

AEROSOLS

What a great porky this one is!

The non-scientific word-association goes aerosol – hair spray – sprayers (truly inspirational!)

aerosol-can-2

TO THIS:

YouTube_-_Documentary_Validates_Chemtrails_and_Weather_Warfare-20090725-091314

But never a thought to CHECKING UP what the REAL MEANING (scientific meaning) of aerosol ACTUALLY IS:

Aerosol – from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Aerosol – contamination in northeastern India and Bangladesh.
Technically, an aerosol is a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets in a gas. Examples are smoke, oceanic haze, air pollution, smog and CS gas. In general conversation, aerosol usually refers to an aerosol spray can or the output of such a can.
The word aerosol derives from the fact that matter “floating” in air is a suspension (a mixture in which solid or liquid or combined solid-liquid particles are suspended in a fluid). To differentiate suspensions from true solutions, the term sol evolved – originally meant to cover dispersions of tiny (sub-microscopic) particles in a liquid.
With studies of dispersions in air, the term aerosol evolved and now embraces both liquid droplets, solid particles, and combinations of these.

Workplace exposure
Concentrated aerosols from substances such as silica, asbestos, and diesel particulate matter are sometimes found in the workplace and have been shown to result in a number of diseases including silicosis and black lung. Respirators can protect workers from harmful aerosol exposure. In the United States the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health certifies respirators through the National Personal Protective Technology Laboratory to ensure that they protect workers and the public from harmful airborne contaminants.

Effect on climate
Aerosols over the Amazon each September for four burning seasons (2005 through 2008). The aerosol scale (yellow to dark reddish-brown) indicates the relative amount of particles that absorb sunlight. Anthropogenic aerosols, particularly sulfate aerosols from fossil fuel combustion, exert a cooling influence on the climate which partly counteracts the warming induced by greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide. This effect is accounted for in many climate models. Recent research, as yet unconfirmed, suggests that aerosol diffusion of light may have increased the carbon sink in the earth’s ecosystem.

Recent studies of the Sahel drought and major increases since 1967 in rainfall over the Northern Territory, Kimberley, Pilbara and around the Nullarbor Plain have led some scientists to conclude that the aerosol haze over South and East Asia has been steadily shifting tropical rainfall in both hemispheres southward.

The latest studies of severe rainfall declines over southern Australia since 1997 have led climatologists there to consider the possibility that these Asian aerosols have shifted not only tropical but also mid-latitude systems southward.

Oxides of nitrogen (NOx) in the atmosphere are a form of pollution which can give rise to smog and act as a greenhouse gas. Their persistence in the atmosphere is affected by aerosol droplets of water.
In 1964 long chain fatty acids, either naturally produced from marine organisms dispersed into the atmosphere by wave action or man-made, were found to coat these droplets. In 2006 there was a study of the effect of the LCFA on the persistence of NOx, but the long term implications, although thought to be significant, have yet to be determined.

So AEROSOL means this:

aerosol_clouds
Or this:
aerosol-692
A REALTIME study of aerosol presence (made by satellite) all over the world may be obtained here, and here is a representative image, from which you can see the satellite passes 90 minutes apart.
aersl_omi_2009

There is a video made over a fortnight showing the main aerosol action occurs travelling westward on a line passing through BANGLADESH and the SAHARA DESERT. It is MAN-MADE – the consequence of many hundreds of millions of humans living close to the poverty line…  slash-and-burn, cooking fires, forest fires, vegetable farming decomposition, volcanoes…

No aircraft contrails are found anywhere NEAR this line…

So much for the “chemtrailers” and their “the NWO is poisoning the whole world” theory…

rd-table

THE ATMOSPHERE

What is it?

atmosphereearth

It’s a mixture of invisible element and compound gases; nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapour, argon, neon, and trace amounts of other inert gaseous elements. This mixture keeps us in a healthy condition, and imbalance in this mixture can poison and/or kill us. We would all prefer to be at Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is 20 deg C (70 deg F) and 1000 millibars (14.7 lb/in2).

Standard Temperature and Pressure occur at Sea Level, but the atmosphere may reach up to 200Km or more (the INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION orbits at 400Km and you can bet there’s very little atmosphere, if any, at that height!) The following diagram is a graph of atmospheric pressure against height over sea level (altitude). The space station height is three graph-heights higher than the graph below.

pressure_altitude.jpg

There is an asymptotic fall-off of pressure with altitude which is easy to see. This, when combined with the concomitant drop in temperature lends weight to the understanding that the stratosphere cannot bear much loading of contrail ice before it saturates, and cannot absorb more.

The region just immediately higher than the tropopause (at approximately 26,000 feet to 39,000 feet) is the region where passenger aircraft fly, for reasons of safety and economy.

The pressure above the tropopause is one-fifth that at sea level, but at the high cruising speed of 550 miles per hour, there is sufficient dynamic lift for safe and stable flight.

This region is the CAUSE of the “chemtrail” controversy, for it is COLD, STABLE, and INCAPABLE of absorbing large amounts of combustion steam as water vapor. As a consequence this steam cools to microscopically-fine ice crystals, which form – TRAILS behind the aircraft.

And the following is a diagram of air dewpoint and temperature plotted against height above sea level (altitude).

humidity.jpg

If you look at the dewpoint line (on left) you can see it move continually leftward with increase in height above sea level. This powerfully indicates that with increasing height, the atmosphere is increasingly incapable of absorbing the exhaust water formed by burning kerosine in gas turbines.

Looking at the temperature (lapse rate) line on the right, you can see that it moves leftward with increase in height above sea level, until it reaches the tropopause, where it starts to edge to the right again. You can see that after the tropopause the atmosphere gets WARMER with increasing height. The concave shapes to both dewpoint and temperature here indicate some energy input – either solar ‘focusing’ from tropospheric clouds, or jet stream mixing energy – it is hard to guess.

Another couple of points. This chart was obviously made on a cold day; the sea level temperature is just sub-zero. However, two hundred metres higher, and the air temperature is five degrees higher. Bumps and dips in these two lines show where you may infer the presence of clouds.

top_of_atmosphere

There is much more to learn about our atmosphere than I have given here, but I can heartily recommend this link to the UK’s Met Office.

After that you can answer these questions (can’t you!).

atm-qs.jpg

As further confirmation I strongly recommend AtOptics

atopticsatm.

And a word to the “wise”. There is a lot of scuttlebutt going around which says “Global Warming is just a myth started by our duplicitous governments as a means of extracting additional taxes”. Well I remember a time when it was thought we were headed directly for a new ice age.

(This was just a journalistic ruse. The next Ice Age will occur approximately 16,000 years from the present.)

Since then, it is true that government funds are available for the investigation of GW to the detriment of other research, and that horrible thing “political correctness” has raised its ugly head above the horizon, but the facts are too numerous to mention that the climate is warming, but also that other facts remain unmentioned, which leaves a question of politics…

greenhouse_effect

See “Global Warming is a Myth” under G in this blog.

https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/19-global-dimming/

gw

THE WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION

One of the major purposes of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), as laid down in its Convention, is “To facilitate worldwide cooperation in the establishment of networks of stations for the making of meteorological observations as well as hydrological and other geophysical observations related to meteorology, and to promote the establishment and maintenance of centres charged with the provision of meteorological and related services”.

Accordingly, WMO Members operate, in a coordinated manner, complex networks in space, the atmosphere, on land and over oceans. In 2007, Members decided to work towards enhanced integration of both the WMO Global Observing System (GOS) and WMO co-sponsored observing systems such as the Global Ocean Observing System (GOOS), Global Terrestrial Observing System (GTOS) and Global Climate Observing System (GCOS). This concept is called the WMO Integrated Global Observing Systems (WIGOS).

  weather balloon

Currently, more than 10000 manned and automatic surface weather stations, 1000 upper-air stations, over 7000 ships, more than 100 moored and 1000 drifting buoys, hundreds of weather radars and over 3000 specially equipped commercial aircraft measure key parameters of the atmosphere, land and ocean surface every day. The space-based component of the WMO Observing System contains operational polar-orbiting and geostationary satellites and also R&D environmental satellites complementing ground-based global observations. These activities are coordinated within the Global Observing System (GOS) of the World Weather Watch (WWW) of WMO. Several WMO Programmes sponsor or participate in the operation of several global observing systems. Other global observing systems, e.g. the global hydrological networks (WHYCOS), function principally on a national or regional level.

Observation programmes such as the Global Climate Observing System (GCOS) and the Global Ocean Observing System (GOOS) will continue to play a major role in improving the collection of required data for the development of climate forecasts and climate change detection. WMO’s Global Atmosphere Watch (GAW) provides data for scientific assessments and for early warnings of changes in the chemical composition and related physical characteristics of the atmosphere that may have adverse affects upon our environment. Through its Instruments and Methods of Observation Programme (IMOP), WMO ensures that meteorological instruments, including manual and automatic ground-based stations and space-based observing systems, are accurate and provide standardized data.

WMO monitoring and observing systems will be a core component of the Global Earth Observation System of Systems (GEOSS), aimed at developing a comprehensive, coordinated and sustained Earth observation system of systems to understand and address global environmental and economic challenges.

ATMOSNAPS

This is, of course, a silly word coined by me to introduce these pictures of Earth’s atmosphere which have been taken by some of the NASA Space Shuttle astronauts from the International Space Station.

I find them most stimulating and interesting. We spend all our time with a “flat-earther” viewpoint, looking up at clouds and failing to see them for what they truly are.

Moment of Launch - "the twang's the thang!"

Moment of Launch - "the twang's the thang!"

Shuttle lift-off at Cape Kennedy

Shuttle lift-off at Cape Kennedy

Out on a limb...

Out on a limb...

A massive cumulo-nimbus from above...

A massive cumulo-nimbus from above...

A Saharan sandstorm leaves the West Coast of Africa

A Saharan sandstorm leaves the West Coast of Africa

Eddies form in Cirrus clouds passing over a Mediterranean isle

Eddies form in Cirrus clouds passing over a Mediterranean isle

A sunset from space...

A sunset from space...

Jet Spray

leave a comment »

PAGE CONTENTS

JONES JOINS IN – JET SPRAY – JET STREAMS – JONTY – JP – JPI – JQA – KAPENINA – KNOW FOR A FACT – KONDRIX – KSLA – LAUGHTER – LESS THAN – LETTER TO 4 – (THEY ARE) LEGION

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

JONES JOINS IN AFTER TEN YEARS

Alex Jones has always been a louche popularist. No great intensity of thought here – a small brain behind a big, BIG, mouth. The “chemtrail” market was obviously TOO SMALL for hime to consider adding to his own, but, obviously and sadly, it must have GROWN to a size too large to ignore. So here it arrives, no doubt in its entirety, warts and all, nothing too crappy not to have been previously debunked.

Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet.com Friday, July 2, 2010

Scientists now admit that emissions from aircraft are forming artificial clouds that block out the sun, precisely what geoengineering advocates like top eugenicist and White House science advisor John P. Holdren have called for, but the article tries to insinuate that the effect is caused by natural “vapors,” when in reality it can be attributed to chemtrails that contain substances harmful to humans. “The phenomenon occurs when aircraft fly above 25,000ft, where the air temperature is around minus 30C. This causes water vapor emitted by the engines to crystallise and form the familiar white streaks across the sky, known as contrails,” writes Oliver Tree for the Daily Mail. “Reading University’s Professor Keith Shine, an expert in clouds, said that those formed by aircraft fumes could linger ‘for hours’, depriving those areas under busy flight paths, such as London and the Home Counties, of summer sunshine.”
“Experts have warned that, as a result, the amount of sunlight hitting the ground could be reduced by as much as ten per cent. Professor Shine added: “Over the busiest areas in London and the South of England, this high-level cloud could cover the sky, turning bright sunshine into hazy conditions for the entire area. I expect the effects will get worse as the volume of air traffic increases.” The report also makes reference to a 2009 Met Office study which found that high-level winds did not disperse contrails that later formed into clouds which covered an astonishing 20,000 miles.
Of course, this is no natural phenomenon as the article claims. Ten years ago, contrails from jet aircraft disappeared within minutes, yet apparently we are led to believe that the same substance is now causing the trails to linger for hours and form into clouds. This is impossible without something within the substance having been changed.
Mainstream science and academia has gone from dismissing chemtrails as a fantasy of paranoid conspiracy theorists to now accepting that they exist but claiming that they are natural and not artificially induced. In reality, chemtrails are the consequence of the agenda to geoengineer the earth in the name of combating climate change, a science vehemently backed by people like John P. Holdren, who in his 1977 book Ecoscience advocated poisoning the water supply to involuntarily sterilize humans as part of a “planetary regime” that would control every aspect of our existence. The fact that such eugenicists are now in control of geoengineering programs that will have a direct impact on our health is alarming.
Geoengineering programs have also been promoted by the Council on Foreign Relations, which is one of the main steering committees behind the implementation of global governance. A recent report issued by the UK government also calls for the UN to exclusively regulate world wide geoengineering of the planet in order to stave off man made global warming. Discussion of geoengineering technology is often framed as a future consideration, yet governments are already conducting such programs at an advanced stage.
The Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Program was created in 1989 with funding from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and is sponsored by the DOE’s Office of Science and managed by the Office of Biological and Environmental Research. One of ARM’s programs, entitled Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign (ISDAC), is aimed at measuring “cloud simulations” and “aerosol retrievals”. Another program under the Department of Energy’s Atmospheric Science Program is directed towards, “developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter.”
The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
U.S. government scientists are already bombarding the skies with the acid-rain causing pollutant sulphur dioxide in an attempt to fight global warming by “geo-engineering” the planet, despite the fact that injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere carries with it a host of both known and unknown dangers.
The proposal to disperse sulphur dioxide in an attempt to reflect sunlight was discussed in a September 2008 London Guardian article entitled, Geoengineering: The radical ideas to combat global warming, in which Ken Caldeira, a leading climate scientist based at the Carnegie Institution in Stanford, California, promoted the idea of injecting the atmosphere with aerosols. “One approach is to insert “scatterers” into the stratosphere,” states the article. “Caldeira cites an idea to deploy jumbo jets into the upper atmosphere and deposit clouds of tiny particles there, such as sulphur dioxide. Dispersing around 1m tonnes of sulphur dioxide per year across 10m square kilometres of the atmosphere would be enough to reflect away sufficient amounts of sunlight.” Experiments similar to Caldeira’s proposal are already being carried out by U.S. government-backed scientists, such as those at the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, S.C, who last year began conducting studies which involved shooting huge amounts of particulate matter, in this case “porous-walled glass microspheres,” into the stratosphere. The project is closely tied to an idea by Nobel Prize winner Paul Crutzen, who “proposed sending aircraft 747s to dump hugequantities of sulfur particles into the far-reaches of the stratosphere to cool down the atmosphere.” Such programs merely scratch the surface of what is likely to be a gargantuan and overarching black-budget funded project to geo-engineer the planet, with little or no care for the unknown environmental consequences this could engender.
What is known about what happens when the environment is loaded with sulphur dioxide is bad enough, since the compound is the main component of acid rain, which according to the EPA “Causes acidification of lakes and streams and contributes to the damage of trees at high elevations (for example, red spruce trees above 2,000 feet) and many sensitive forest soils.
In addition, acid rain accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable buildings, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation’s cultural heritage.”
The health effects of bombarding the skies with sulphur dioxide alone are enough to raise serious questions about whether such programs should even be allowed to proceed. The following health effects are linked with exposure to sulphur – Neurological effects and behavioral changes – Disturbance of blood circulation – Heart damage – Effects on eyes and eyesight – Reproductive failure – Damage to immune systems – Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder – Damage to liver and kidney functions – Hearing defects – Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism – Dermatological effects – Suffocation and lung embolism
According to the LennTech website, “Laboratory tests with test animals have indicated that sulfur can cause serious vascular damage in veins of the brains, the heart and the kidneys. These tests have also indicated that certain forms of sulfur can cause foetal damage and congenital effects. Mothers can even carry sulfur poisoning over to their children through mother milk. Finally, sulfur can damage the internal enzyme systems of animals.” Fred Singer, president of the Science Environmental Policy Project and a skeptic of man-made global warming theories, warns that the consequences of tinkering with the planet’s delicate eco-system could have far-reaching dangers. “If you do this on a continuous basis, you would depress the ozone layer and cause all kinds of other problems that people would rather avoid,” said Singer. Even Greenpeace’s chief UK scientist – a staunch advocate of the man-made global warming explanation – Doug Parr has slammed attempts to geo-engineer the planet as “outlandish” and “dangerous”. Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, who recently proposed a bizarre plan to send spaceships into the upper atmosphere that would be used to block out the Sun, admits that geo-engineering could cause “conflicts between nations if geoengineering projects go wrong.”
Given all the immediate dangers associated with bombarding the atmosphere with sulphur dioxide, along with the unknown dangers of other geo-engineering projects, many people are concerned that “chemtrails” are a secret component of the same agenda to alter the Earth’s eco-system. The fact that chemtrails are blocking out the sun, which is precisely what the geoengineering advocates call for, strongly indicates that they are an integral part of this dangerous and wide-reaching program.
The Government Is Already Geo Engineering The Environment – This graphic proposes, “Spraying aluminum powder and barium oxide into high levels of the atmosphere, again delivered by aircraft, to increase planetary reflectance (albedo) and cloud cover.” High levels of barium have been found in substances associated with chemtrails. Reports of chemtrails, jet plumes emitted from planes that hang in the air for hours and do not dissipate, often blanketing the sky in criss-cross patterns, have increased dramatically over the last 10 years. Many have speculated that they are part of a government program to alter climate, inoculate humans against certain pathogens, or even to toxify humans as part of a population reduction agenda. In conducting Google searches, one finds discussion, such as this example, of using sulphur dioxide as a jet fuel additive to be dispersed over the world during routine commercial flights. “I suggest that both the sulphur dioxide and the silica particles could be delivered into the stratosphere by dissolving an additive in jet aviation fuel,” writes engineer John Gorman, who has conducted experiments to test the feasibility of such a scenario. “We would want to burn fuel containing the additive specifically when the aircraft was cruising in the lower stratosphere,” he adds.
In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature. The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails.” KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA. KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that “short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems.” The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.
Indeed, barium oxide has cropped up repeatedly as a contaminant from suspected geoengineering experimentation. KSLA also put aerosolized-chemical testing in its historical context, citing a voluminous number of unclassified tests exposed in 1977 Senate hearings. The tests included experimenting with biochemical compounds on the public. KSLA reports that “239 populated areas were contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969.” One of the accepted truisms of scientific study is the fact that if scientists are proposing an idea, then those scientists with access to the bottomless pit of black-budget secret government funding are already doing it. It is highly likely that chemtrails are merely one manifestation of “geo-engineering” that is taking place without proper debate, notification or any form of legality, and with a callous disregard for the potential dangers to both our health and our environment.

This is a classic “chemtrails” exposition. It quotes a long stream of irrelevant references and debunked claims as if they were brand new.

One can only assume that Alex Jones weighed the strength of support for this MYTH and decided he would have some of it.

COMMENTS SECTION

(Some preliminary chatting and preening has been removed)

Buzzard Says:
Not once does this article mention the fact that cloud cover causes a green house effect and increases global warming effect. this article makes it seam that governments are fighting real global warming, as if it is real. that is a farce. It also never mentions that our US government is also behind this crap, or how extensive a problem this is all over the US. Just imagine our Representative are using our own money to mess up our health and food supply.

Green Leader
Reply:
The article is bogus, indeed. The problem is widespread among NATO countries. What they do is spray SiO2 to break-up hidrogen bonds in cloud water droplets and reflecting heat back to the soil, increasing global warming. The SiO2 helps create ‘false cirrus’ clouds. The Barium Titanate and Aluminum are for ‘other purposes’. Google Barium Titanate + chemtrails & find out for yourself. The website from Spain I referred just above explains how things are done.

JazzRoc Reply:
1. If silicon dioxide were to be sprayed through a turbofan, it would PLATE and ERODE the exhaust turbine in seconds, the engine would be destroyed in a couple of minutes. Why did they stop flights during the Icelandic ash incident earlier this year?
2. It wouldn’t “break-up hidrogen bonds” if it WERE to be sprayed. The SAND on every seashore in the world is made of it, and the SEA is FULL of hydrogen bonds. Don’t go near the beach, eh?
3. Aluminum is a constituent of CLAY and is found in SOIL. Mechanized agriculture makes DUST. Dust may become wind-borne. Surprisingly, raindrops may encapsulate it, and LO it can fall in your tray. Proof of aluminized chemtrails?
4. Barium titanate is a remarkable material in a multitude of ways, many of them yet to be discovered. But as a material to be in a trail left at NORMAL height, it would only “work” for a few days. The height at which the expense of doing it proves viable is 80,000 feet, which only fighters and the lightly-built U2 can reach. NO “tanker” gets to HALF that altitude.
5. If you really believe that some specialist chemtrail disinfo site in Spain knows something that two hundred thousand qualified atmospheric scientists don’t, then you need to visit a library and ask for help. At least, a library…

Green Leader
Reply:
Government troll:
1) Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?
2) The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.
3) Clay is flake-like and has a high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). The aluminum dust is nano particulate. When they spray ham radio comms drop. That’s how we first found out we were being sprayed metal dust–the ham freaks spoke up.
4) The Barium and other nasty stuff is sprayed at lower altitudes. I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks–as if farting. The drones have NO numbers, markings, insignia whatsoever. I used to be a very strong man who could do farm work day in and day out. The detox I’ve gone through is painful but am recovering my health.
5) Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist.
6) I know how to treat people and dogs from this illness.
7) The NATO generals behind this will be charged, tried, sentenced and imprisoned for crimes against humanity. There’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Nothing. It’s Yahweh’s fight and he never loses.

JazzRoc Reply:
1) “Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?” – Is it an INVISIBLE spray, then? Then why say the trails laid by the aircraft are “chemtrails”? Surely, if they are INVISIBLE then you wouldn’t have noticed in the first place. And if they ARE visible then they ARE exhaust trails. It’s YOU that is confused here, not me.
2) “The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.” – “Nano” merely means VERY SMALL, or measurable in MICROMETERS. The size of a water molecule is 95 PICOMETERS, or at least a HUNDRED TIMES SMALLER. So you want to slice a potato with a battleship?
3) “When they spray ham radio comms drop” – but ham radio comms rise and fall with the passage of day and night, because they are bouncing off the Kennely-Heaviside Layer, which moves dynamically with rising and falling solar illumination. No “spraying” is needed.
4) “I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks” – A pity you didn’t video it. Do you know that no-one has managed this? Strange, isn’t it? Quite often, people who get older become less physically able. They’ve be known to die, as well, especially when they pass 70 years old.
5) “Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist” I couldn’t care less about your other delusions. Just the delusion that you know anything about science.
6 & 7 prove your delusion.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
JazzRoc is a disinfo agent and for your information the planes spray the stuff from sprayers attached to the bottom of the plane. It is not the exhaust. Furthermore there are lots of video of chemtrails being laid. IdIOT!

fallout4real Reply:
Dude, I can honestly smell the schill emanating from you. Why do waste your time here trying to convince people that what we know is wrong? If your so right why are here? We are just a bunch of crazies!! Why do photos exist of spray nozzles on the belly of these unmarked jets with chemicals pouring out? Why do the pilots of these planes refer to themselves as “human chemtrailer 1? You really need to “Look at the big picture” before you tell us how it is!

JazzRoc Reply:
Yes, you ARE a bunch of crazies. You are keen to slander people you don’t know without ANY evidential basis except your pseudoscience and the lies you tell each other.

You’re lying now, for I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.

Science is based on evidence. It is NOT based on “evidence” gleaned from listening to confidence tricksters like Carnicom which is designed merely to CONFIRM your anti-authoritarian predispositions.
I too am anti-authoritarian, but it didn’t stop me from pursuing a lifetime’s career in engineering.
You all exhibit a laziness to conduct proper research, and a fixed rigidty of mind which makes it very unlikely you will ever understand that talking about “chemtrails” gets you straight into

SCIENCE, and scientists will EJECT you vigorously as soon as you begin to spout PSEUDOSCIENCE.
They say that creationists don’t understand why atheists laugh at them. Well, the same thing exactly applies to “chemtrailers” with scientists and engineers laughing at them too.

fallout4real Reply:
Jazz you call me a liar yet with my crazy little paragraph, I can capture your attention with out writing a book or double think!! I am a small independent business owner and I don’t give a crap what you call me because I don’t depend on the system like you, a simple schill !!!! Wake up or shut up you liar!

FreedomLover Reply:
jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.
Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR. If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people. The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist. NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.
You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.

clockwise lives Reply:
YOU ARE THE NEW SHEEPLE….YOU! BLIND LOYALIST!

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Who is it you think I’m loyal to? I’m loyal to the truth.

fallout4real Reply:
IDIOT

JazzRoc Reply:
TIC: “Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.”
(Titters backstage)

larry Says:
Oil in gulf is raining tirds on yo head.

patrick11 Says:
OK, so chemtrails are the same thing as contrails? I thought they were different!

FreedomLover Reply:
They ARE hugely different. Contrails are just jet exhaust that freezes at high altitude then dissipates fairly quickly. CHEMTRAILS come from the specialized nozzles on wings and/or fuselage of a plane and are sprayed out NOT from the engines. This is a deliberate spraying from chemical tanks inside the aircraft. There are videos all over the web that show fairly close-up views of the spraying, and a couple of photos of the planes on the ground. Just google them – chemtrail planes.

JazzRoc Reply:
They can all be found DEBUNKED on the page entitled “‘Chemtrail’ Aircraft Photos”, here:
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Gov. shill alert!

JazzRoc
Reply:
Your abuse doesn’t constitute a strong argument, does it?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
None of your science can debunk that we are being sprayed by military ops. If they were so harmless, they wouldn’t be secret. But logic doesn’t play in, now does it? Continue your disinfo campaign, we will never shut-up about chemtrails.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
How could contrails form from an aircraft flying below a Cumulus cloud, on a beautiful Summer’s day with blue sky and puffy Cumulus clouds? Why, at the end of the day was the entire sky a murky haze? Why did I experience sickness akin to chemical or metallic poisoning, shortly after observing these aircraft leaving trails that lasted all day? I never get sick, except for a cold or two, and especially in Summer. Say what you will, but I cannot come up with an answer to these questions except chemicals being dispersed in the atmosphere by aircraft.
Science is not transparent, a lot of things are being done that defy all moral grounds, and a lot of Scientists are on the payroll of big corporations and will “prove” anything they want the public to believe. I’m sorry, but science is no longer noble, it has become evil and without conscience. Proof: the Global Warming debacle. Pure unabashed hokum, and the idiots are still running around like chickens with their heads cut off going “Global Warming, Global Warming, Global Warming. Oh, I forgot Al Gore is a genius and invented the Internet. Hah-hah, there’s a great fellow who is standing up for “Science” and “Truth”, eh? Got any great quotes from this spokesmen? ( I could use a laff). Things are not all that rosy in the Laboratories, I’m afraid.

JazzRoc Reply:
Contrails can form aerodynamically over the wings of aircraft flying in somewhat warmer, lower and more humid conditions. They look rather different and are cut up by the invisible engine trails. Cumulus clouds normally have a cloudbase between three and fifteen thousand feet, and that UPPER limit is around the LOWER limit for aerodynamic contrails. It seems unlikely to me.
What seems MORE likely is that you mistook a LARGE airplane HIGH up for a SMALLER airplane LOWER down. This is a common mistake to make, as there are no other objects to reference against. To KNOW the true height of an overflying aircraft you need a rangefinder and sextant.
Persistent contrails spread as they fall. Quite often there will be several stratospheric layers each moving horizontally on different headings. This spreads the trail. When the spread trail “meets its doom” it will be at the altitude which has sufficient warmth to evaporate the ice back to water vapor. This will generally be level and flat, so all you will see from underneath is boring greyness.
GW is a rising thermometer. To deny it is the ultimate foolishness. Yes, folks, disregard your thermometers, it’s REALLY COOLING. This argument, of course, is a mere distraction from the plain fact that YOU SHOW AND DISCUSS NO EVIDENCE OF CHEMTRAILS. I’m talking REAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. If you feel such evidence unnecessary, then you need treatment, probably for APOPHENIA.

MontgomeryScott Says:
WOW! The ‘Y’ versus ‘X’ dicotomy is especially ‘active’ on THIS PARTICULAR WEB-POSTING!

PS: A way to slightly lighten up the point that is attempting on being made here.

soupofdefish Says:
Funny you all act like you all doubted this until same asshole tells you its so. I grew up next to a base and seen planes all my life. Contrails always faded out quickly. Then one day Around 1980 I noticed them staying longer. I mentioned this to my mom but got the usual shrug kids get. Been talking about it ever since. Then I found internet and seen that many others noticed. Didn’t feel so alone after that. I didn’t need some dick weed to tell me they are not natural. I was a dumb kid and could tell the difference. What is wrong with the rest of the people that they could not remember when contrails always faded away? The rest of you need some f—ing conviction!

FreedomLover Reply:
Don’t be too hard on the sheeple. I didn’t know about any of this 2 years ago. At first I didn’t want to believe it either. Somebody spraying me like a bug to kill me (slowly)? What normal person would want to wrap their mind around the truth that some jerk they didn’t even know wants them dead? It’s awfully mind-blowing. And extremely stressful to know there is no way to get to them to stop them. Try to get on one of the military facilities where these planes are based and you’ll get shot first, then if you’re still alive they will interrogate your arse,probably never seeing the outside of a detention facility ever again!

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Welcome to the club. Sometimes it makes more sense to bash yer head against the wall, than try to convince people as to what is happening, right in their faces. Anyways, good for you and your observations. We’ve got to keep on pushing, even if it seems futile. Try turning people on to the documentary “Aerosol Crimes” by Clifford Carnicom, it’s a real eye-opener.

JazzRoc
Reply:
Soupofdefish, FreedomLover, and Johnny Canuck: I’ve been around airports all my life. I saw my first persistent trail at age ten in 1954. I knew what it was even then. That’s the way it is when you are fascinated with aircraft, and learn to build and fly model ones. You might have grown up to study Science and become an aeronautical engineer as I did and actually MEASURED exactly what the output of a turbojet is. Then you would discover that the BRICK WALL you are forever bashing your heads against is actually a PERSONAL PROBLEM. The problem is that of only accepting statements that CONFIRM your prejudices. This is ENTIRELY OPPOSITE to the way Science must be directed in order for it to succeed. Your minds contain only pseudoscience. This will make you into a human lemming, apt to swarm and dive off cliffs when confronted by social pressures.

Tough. Get out of it if you wish to save your neck.

FreedomLover Reply:
Your overinflated ego is so huge I’m surprised you haven’t exploded yet. Get out there and blow your horn some more. You’re not loud enough yet. While you’re at it, blow some more smoke. You’re still visible. You want to see a jerk with personal problems, look in the mirror. I already know I’m a jerk, that’s why I needed and still need a Saviour. You haven’t found out yet. Pity.

JazzRoc Reply:
I reckon being alive gives everyone a personal problem, don’t you? Prepackaged solutions involving the superstitions of a nomadic tribe 4,000 years ago aren’t likely to solve the problems of the modern world, are they? You have been coddled in an industrialized age, and passively waiting for the chickens to come home to roost. Meanwhile you’re carrying out a terrorist attack upon the passenger air transport industry because you BELIEVE, without the slightest proof, that aircraft are poisoning the sky, when it is KNOWN (by air samplers everywhere) that air contaminants are entirely normal, and that the trails visible in the sky, in all their forms, have been known and understood since they were first observed in 1921. This manifestation of your uneducated state strikes at the social cohesion of our society. You ARE the “dark forces” that your “Revelations” predicts.

FreedomLover
Reply:
And you are a very intelligent black ops disinfo agent. The proof is all around yet you deny it. I’m anything but passive. I have no intention of denying anyone air transport. This world as we know it, is coming to an end. You yourself don’t deny that the air is polluted, and you also deny the source(s) of the pollution. Yes, your horn is loud enough now, you satanic lying freak.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
RIGHT ON sodf! When in doubt use your own logic!

JazzRoc
Reply:
I wouldn’t know. I’m not in doubt, and YOU are NOT logical.

Texas IdentityCrisis
Reply:
Oh, you mean you are not in doubt that chemtrails are harmless contrails and you can’t recognize any logic from me? I’m trying to tell ya, lay off the flouride, the GMO, the vaccines, stay outta the chemtrails…..it’s really hard to think on that stuff.

JazzRoc Reply:
I am in no doubt whatsoever that ALL the trails you see in the sky are HARMLESS.
Fluoride is a soluble halogen salt which is EASILY eliminated by the human body if it meets a SMALL excess. The body REQUIRES trace amounts of it.
Genetic modifications are in general NO DIFFERENT from NATURAL MUTATIONS, except that they are DIRECTED. Natural mutations can be “dangerous” too. I share with you anxiety about some mutational possibilities. I wouldn’t want a world full of TRIFFIDS any more than you. I don’t eat GM food.
Vaccines aren’t “risk-free”, any more than cycling is. But they offer a world without epidemics, which is like offering a world without war. Take the opportunity (accept them), or not, where you increase your own risk od disease considerably, and increase everyone else’s risk to a certain extent. This latter position is IMMORAL.
I live on Tenerife in the Canary Islands in the sub-tropical Atlantic Ocean. Virtually no overflights…

FreedomLover Reply:
No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.
I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.
The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.

trestradapalma
Says:
This is what happens when Americans repeatedly elect neotards who believe they are smart enough to think for the rest of us but who in reality possess the cognitive powers of a stone.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
This is also what happens when you let the Military Industrial Complex do whatever it wants.

JazzRoc Reply:
It didn’t want to dumb YOU down, but here you are…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Oh, you speak for the MIC?

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course not. I was involved politically in the early seventies when the neocons dismantled further education in Britain – being a teacher at that time.

kingkurtis Says:
i sold cars in 2000 in Washington st. (on the coast, Mount Vernon)…in car sales, there are periods of standing and waiting, outside, with many sales staff. I noticed the criss cross lines of what i thought was vapor. What was compelling was that the lines, widened out, and changed what was a sunny warm day, into a totally cloudy day. The individual spray lines, would just widen out and join with the other expanding lines….and you could see the definition of the edges of the now puffy trails. you could actually see the overall sky picture if you will was a textured pattern like a huge quilt. Like a blanket whose pattern is obvious. The people I worked with were as stunned as i was. A few days certain planes actually turned in huge arcs, and went back to where they came from. Leaving a circle cloud….no kidding…Having just gotten internet in ‘99, i did some clicking and yes this is real. Plane height is not the deal either, if you can count the engines, it aint 30000 feet. Human eye cant discern a plane at 5 miles.3 yes. At least better. Still have spraying here. This summer, it hasnt reached 75 yet. Not since last September….my 2 cents

JazzRoc Says:
“Amateur” people without ANY understanding of how to conduct science have coined a whole new range of terms and created a pseudoscience which has packed the WEB so densely that it has become almost impossible to find REAL SCIENCE in it.
People trying to distinguish the TRUTH through this fog of innocent MYTH and malevolent DISINFORMATION have this task to do:
Use ADVANCED SEARCH in GOOGLE.
Use the EXCLUDE WORDS function to exclude the following words:
CHEM AEROSOL CHEMTRAIL SPRAY NWO MORGELLONS BARIUM ALUMINUM 9-11 HAARP
Scientists will NEVER use the above words in their experimental reports.
Then search for:
“paper aviation saturated atmosphere contrails”
The last time I looked, this search got 645 scientific research papers.
Any one of them will show the depths of ignorance plumbed by “chemtrails”.
The whole concept of “chemtrils” is a worthless and meaningless FIFTH COLUMN, a powerful distraction from solving the problems of respiratory disease, agriculture and industrialization, global warming, global dimming, TRUE conspiracies (whatever they may be), and social cohesion.
“Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS, sometimes unwitting, sometimes not. It’s about time we all dispelled this product of ignorance and fear

FreedomLover Reply:
Wow, how deluded can you get? Peer review is just a bunch of like-minded paid assassins slapping each other on the back. I’m sure there are good scientists out there, but just like any other leadership-related career, if you’re not willing to work with the globalists and keep your mouth shut about the real agendas, you end up dead. Exclude all the conspiracies the govt has against us and you get purely the rhetoric and propaganda.

JazzRoc Reply:
We are all capable of self-delusion. All you have to be is unaware.
In your case you are unaware that the Earth has been busy contaminating and decontaminating itself for aeons, and that ALL insoluble material in the atmosphere ends up as sediment on the ocean floor, and all the soluble material will dissolve in the sea.
Exclude Man from this and the Earth wouldn’t notice at all.
You are unaware that anybody with science training can spot you at once as a person who merely researches to prove a point you already believe. Because of YOUR belief system there is NO WAY you can ever allow yourself to change your mind. Your mind, in a sense, is ALREADY BROKEN, and any conclusions you come to will be increasingly worthless over time.
Peer review is conducted anonymously or not at all.
The very fact that you adhere to the belief that engine trails contain metals (or biological material) CONFIRMS your lack of reasoning ability, for if that were to be true, the the engine trail GAP would be bright green or brilliant pink/white, the engine would be destroyed in seconds, and NO biologicals withstand 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit.
So you make unsubstantiated and impossible claims, call me deluded, and infer that I’m deluded?
Though never having met a “globalist”, I’m sure I’d prefer it to meeting you with your mindless pseudoscience and baseless slander…

FreedomLover Reply:
For your information, the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet. I didn’t know any of this prior to 18 months ago, but reading about it and seeing it happen right before my eyes, putting the pieces together (which you have miserably failed to do or you are a disinfo agent), is what is known as “waking up”. I never believed that biologicals and these metallic salts come from fuel exhaust and never SAID that, but are sprayed from tanks inside the planes, not coming in contact with the jet fuel. I stated so in one of my earlier posts. So you really wanted to attack me without bothering to read what I wrote. You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people, when they have been QUOTED saying they want 90% of the population gone? THAT is what makes you a disinfo agent. Ignoring all evidence presented except what promotes YOUR theory. Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

JazzRoc Reply:
“the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet”
Yes it does. There are at least 11,500 active volcanoes working day and night. So you’re WRONG.
“are sprayed from tanks inside the planes” – INTO WHERE? There are no switches, pipes, or tanks that fit that description. The trails laid as recorded by YT videos are all coming from the engines of passenger jets in the stratosphere. The extraordinary notion that the hundreds of thousands of aircraft half had some sort of “black” retrofit needs some EXTRAORDINARY PROOF, of which you supply NONE.
“You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people”
NO. I want to exclude the words of liars and mythmakers from the thermodynamics that occurs when aircraft fly in the stratosphere. While you make up lies about this you must be excluded. Strangely enough, if you follow my recommendations you DO actually find words written by ordinary non-fraudulent and non-mendacious scientists. Science is successful because it includes NO LIES about the natural world. My theory IS that of atmospheric science. I can produce a long list of chemtrail FRAUD. It’s the only thing you people cling to.  “Truthseekers”? What an irony….

Texas IdentityCrisis
Reply:
I guess JazzRoc never heard of Climategate, which is evident by his utter worship and blind eye for scientists.
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemrl dot htm
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=chemtrail+planes&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=-LMwTJDDIsSblgfWyLCiCQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB8QsAQwAA
If it were up to me, you’d be tied to a chair under the chemtrails everyday. Then we could do experiments on YOU, to see if there are any unhealthy results of the constant exposure.

Green Leader Reply:
I would make him eat chemtrail-contaminated iguana meat breakfast, lunch & dinner for an extended period of time. But then, he might claim he got sick because iguana meat is forbidden by the Torah.



JazzRoc Reply:
Hey, funny! Nothing to do with the topic, though. More to do with you than me, I think…


Texas IdentityCrisis
Reply:
I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.

Bumper Sticker Says:
Chemtrails are like pest spray, and we’re the pests!


inalienable rights Says:
To the commentators who claim that chemtrails have existed since WWII and are not new to our skies: I’ve flown the USA since the early 1950s and at no time did we ever see chemtrails such as we see now. Starting in the 1990s there has been a major, significant, and alarming change. There is absolutely NO resemblance to current chemtrails compared to the ‘con’ trails of pre-1990s. If commentators claim that chemtrails existed since WWII, they can only mean that there was a sporatic testing done in those years that was not part of the USA or world skies. To say that today’s chemtrail world crisis has existed previously is in my opinion, a total lie or misrepresentation. All accurate observers since the 1940s would agree with this opinion.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Thank you for your info. It’s disheartening knowing this stuff is real, and having people look at you like you are a Looney Tune.

JazzRoc Reply:
Well, I’ve seen the videos of film shot on the 1000-bomber raids which shows the skies turning white with persistent spreading contrails. For about fifteen years there was a bit of a lull in air travel due to the expenses involved bucketing about the troposphere at 250 mph. Then pressurized transport at 550 mph in the stratosphere became possible, and air travel increased by fifty times. All accurate observers agree that persistent contrails (dubbed “chemtrails” by some) have existed ever since they were first created in, er, 1921.

CRASH Says:
I gotta say, I just feel better lately that I havent seen them for a while, I mean, more at peace around the phenom, I took pics, made vids, posted links, joined forums, commented here, and over all, Im kinda tired of it, It stresses Me out, I just came to the conclusion that the planes are leaving long lingering jet trails of Sh8T in the sky, period, Its just that simple, and its depressing and dissapointing and MUST affect the Planet, or WILL eventually, in a very BAD way, I dont care whether its tanker planes or CIA Evergreen airlines or global geoengineering, we ALL see it, all over the sky and theres NO debate on that! If you run your car in a closed garage, it will kill you..RIGHT? so whats the difference? give it some time, a few years, and it will be common knowledge that mankind done F*cked up w/ the planes, the oil, the food, the water, the meds, the vaccines, the wars, the economy, the cloning, the chemicals and toxins in everything, just, be aware of it all man, thats all..



JazzRoc Says:
Those trails are very nearly pure ice – so pure they could probably out-compete your tapwater in purity.
The combusted kerosine and air deep in the heart of the multi-spool turbofan become a mix of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, steam, and trace compounds at a temperature of 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit. This mix is transparent at that temperature, and you see a GAP before the trail forms. That gap represents the time it takes to COOL to MINUS 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
The STEAM part resolves to microscopic droplets of supercooled water nucleated around trace compound molecules, which freeze over a second or so to ice. However, this isn’t happening in a vacuum, but in a cold low-pressure mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor, the atmosphere of the stratosphere.
Water seems simple at first glance, but it has the unusual properties of supercooling, superheating, and supersaturation.
Supersaturation is the property that water has of dissolving in excess as vapor into a TOTALLY CLEAN atmosphere. The addition of ANY FINE PARTICLES into a volume of air in such a cold and supersaturated state will cause INSTANT SNOW.
As these particles of SNOW fall through this supersaturated layer of the stratosphere, they will PUT ON WEIGHT BY A FACTOR OF TEN THOUSAND. THAT is why you see trails. THAT is why I’m telling you it’s purer than your tapwater.
DO the math. Of course, you still have the unalienable right to crash, if you wish.

FreedomLover Reply:
Troll alert.

JazzRoc Reply:
Your lying makes you the troll.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Mind the gap! You know, the one between your ears!

JazzRoc Reply:
Sorry, it’s all filled in with an understanding of atmospheric science and turbofan thermodynamics, cosmology, design in the aviation and manufacturing industries, music, and art.
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com

FreedomLover Reply:
Your “gap” is filled with BS globalist propaganda. Bet your eyes are brown.

JazzRoc Reply:
Hazel. Gone over to grey.
As an anarchist for over forty years, “globalist propoganda” isn’t of much interest to me, thanks.
It might be nice to have only one govt. There again. it might not. It would depend on its transparency and accessibility. Not having “national interests” to address, there would be NO NEED for secrecy, would there? Except for business secrets.
Freedom is an abstract concept. The practical reality of freedom is that it is the measure of both your ability to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and REMAIN VIGILANT. If you fall down with either of these you shall not be free.

You have a problem with both…
FREEDOM and RESPONSIBILITY are mutually-exclusive. THAT is what makes freedom an abstraction.
You may LOVE it, but you CAN’T have it…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Then drink it moron. You’ll never convince anyone here, we don’t drink the tap.


TheNorthernSurvivalist
Says:
Here in Southwestern Washington, I wonder how much spraying is happening when overcast? Makes me want to take cover when seeing mass chemtrail spraying, followed by clouds and rain. So, how many of ya all have your nuke/chemical survival kits?

JazzRoc Reply:
It will still be happening – even when you don’t see it.
Conditions in the stratosphere are STABLE and rarely affected by the troposphere (which you experience).
Ice will come of solution in the atmosphere and deposit itself upon the trail WHENEVER the layer an airplane flies through a stratospheric layer which happens to be SATURATED with water vapor.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Right, that’s why these poison planes fly back and forth, round and round, in front of the sun and moon. Tell it to your dumbed down granny.

JazzRoc Reply:
There aren’t any “poison planes” – just passenger planes.
There are 87,000 DAILY overflights of the US. That’s EVERY DAY.
You see them when you see their trails. You almost never see them otherwise.
You assume, when there are no trails, that there are NO planes. FAIL.
You also assume that the same plane turned round to spray YOU again. FAIL.
You seem as intelligent as my cat. Sorry, Claws.

semicollegiate Says:
It could be that the new fuel efficient engines put out more clean water and that is the reason for bigger streaks. It could be that the planes are mapping out the exact top of the troposphere for future use. They want to know where to place a given technology to get a specific effect.



JazzRoc Reply:
The new fuel efficient engines ARE marginally more efficient, but that isn’t the point.
They are TEN TIMES larger than the engines in the Boeing 707s that began the fifty-fold expansion of air travel, and burn TEN TIMES more fuel to make a trail TEN TIMES bigger than they were in the fifties.
The troposphere is an oblate spheroid of air which swivels its axis wrt the earth from summer to winter. It is turbulent, always in motion, and is mapped daily by satellite-borne scientific instruments.
This has been happening since the eighties.
Knowing the temporary topology of the tropopause has no utility for geoengineering because any materials would be rainwashed to the sea the next time a cumulonimbus anvil swept by.
The troposphere is DYNAMIC and TURBULENT.

semicollegiate Reply:
Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.
The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting expirience in maintianing flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever. Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.



JazzRoc Reply:
“Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.”
Combustion efficiency was the first thing I studied as an undergraduate. This WASN’T “book-learning”, by-the-way, it was “hands-on” a whole variety of internal and external combustion engines, including turbojets. The achievement of near-perfect combustion in a flame tube was well-understood by the Germans and the British by 1940.
No, the “increase in efficiency” of modern turbofans is achieved by ducting and convecting as much heat as possible to the annular ring of compressed air BEHIND THE FAN. This RAISES PRESSURE, and therefore ADDS to the THRUST already contributed by the COMBUSTION PART OF THE MOTOR. Additionally, the cylinder of cooler air around the hotter air reduces the noise which the process makes.
Pressures and temperatures inside these engines are INTENSE: ALL the components that follow combustion are made from very high-grade steel alloys, and are hollow and have cold air passing through them, otherwise they’d be GONE…
The real reason they make bigger trails is that they are BIGGER ENGINES.
“The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting experience in maintaining flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever.”
A radar system will “see” ANY conductive material which has a cross-sectional length which is SIMILAR to the wavelength of the signal that the radar set transmits.  Satellites such as GOES already have laser equipment which can MEASURE the size of ice crystals in contrails or cirrus. Also LIDAR is used from ground stations for the same purpose. You don’t have to FLY to collect such data.
http ://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
Also, all long/medium distance large aircraft are directed by ATC to fly at a specific height in the stratosphere. They are NOT directed through bumpy and low-visibility parts of the troposphere, where they might meet transponderless VFR light aircraft, except of course for take-off and landing. “Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.” Oh, yes!
http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU6M5hAe-TU


semicollegiate
Reply:
Interesting info thanks. It stands to reason that engines are bigger because classes of planes which had 4 engines in the past now typically have 2 engines. I didn’t know that this was from a 10 fold increase in power. Unstated but in mind by me, my mistake, was that more efficient engines have cleaner, simpler, purer exhaust. Impurities usually cause agglutinization and therefore cleaner exhaust leaves more individual particles. More particles means larger volume, larger surface area, and bigger trails.
I think the chemtrail assertion is not proven but is possible. Your comment, the fact about Arkansas being a Barium mining area, thanks again, is something I would have noticed before I made a final judgment about it.

At the Prison Planet Forum, from which I’ve been banned, I suggested taking samples at the surface of the soil and comparing them to samples taken deeper in the groung. If the Barium was from spraying it would have a higher concentration on the surface. That still would NOT prove spraying because man puts water everywhere and water can have Ba.
In the second point the paper states “It is based upon the fortuitous occurrence of an unusual set of essentially parallel contrails”. Some of the contrails that make true believers are single contrails that over the course of hours spread out to cover 20 to 30 % of a clear sky with a dubiously off-white, with a hint of prismatic spectrum, slimy polymer looking cloud.
I have had a few flying lessons in very old Cessenas and I wondered if there is a design of private aiplane in which the pilot could visually inspect all of the load bearing metal. Everytime we did climbing stalls I worried about it.
I bet the formulae in that vortex video are complex functions of god-awful integrals.



Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
They want to own the world through weather, think about it, he who can control the weather can rule the world! Plus, they can make people sick and kill them slowly, while making millions off their sickness. EUGENICS and WAR is what this is all about!



JazzRoc Reply:
Nobody can control the weather. To make it do what you want, you’d HAVE to relinquish control elsewhere. You need to understand the size of the Earth. (CLUE: its surface area is FIFTY times greater than that of the United States.)
In the US, OVEREATING “makes people sick and kills them slowly”. Supersize YOU.
Educated people don’t discuss “eugenics” anymore since they understand genetics and evolution, and KNOW that fascist “master race” manipulation will NEVER WORK unless you resort to COMPLETE EXTINCTION. This latter is possibly only achievable through a massive nuclear spasm or an asteroid strike.
One-by-one…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
For a scientist, you are pretty naive.

JazzRoc Reply:
For a non-scientist, you are worse than the usual.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
To JazzRockforBrains – http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_control

semicollegiate Reply:
I saw a weather effect in early july 2006, I think it was the 10th. After the 4th anyway. Heading north on I-5 in Northern California there was an unusual storm. Clear sky above and to the east. On the west from the southern horizon to the northern horizon was a solid cloud bank. Looked like fog, like one big cloud, like a rolled tarp, but it was 5000 to 10000 feet up. Right in the middle on the front easternmost edge, was a single cumulonimbus cloud shaped like the forcastle of a sailing ship without the spar. “Laying” on top of that were 15 or so parallel and evenly spaced contrails whose ends formed a circle. Like a webber bbq grill without the ring around edge laying on the front of a 10 foot long model of a 17th century sailing ship. First thing that came to mind for me was HAARP but I suppose formation flying could have caused the same arrangement.
That particular storm caused forest fires throughout northern california, summoned fire brigades from all over the west, and burned until the first rain in October. Nobody else at the couple truckstops I was at saw it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Keep watching, what JazzRoc doesn’t get, is the best scientists are the ones who observe.

semicollegiate Reply:
They are above the law. Or maybe the law is tailor made for them. They don’t need us to grow food or beat up their neighbors anymore.

American Truth Says:
Anyone having breathing problems! I am and also lost my voice VCD

Snow Reply:
I am and for some reason, I’m getting thirsty.

Marc Says:
Here in Frankfurt Rhein Main region (Germany) has been covered by chem trails daily for many years.

JazzRoc Says:
This is a quote from a scientific paper entitled “ON THE POSSIBILITY OF WEATHER MODIFICATION BY AIRCRAFT CONTRAILS”:
“It is then evident that, whenever and wherever persistent contrails are being produced, the airlines are conducting a seeding operation in which each passing aircraft deposits nuclei in numbers at least comparable to a ground-based seeding attempt. The coverage is global in extent, and while random in the sense that airline flights are not scheduled with weather modification in mind, it is not really random with respect to meteorological conditions.”

“Fine,” you might say, “this is EXACTLY what we’re talking about.”
But when was this written?
1970.
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescu…..0-0745.pdf
So what does the page heading “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” by Paul Joseph Watson for Prison Planet.com, Friday, July 2, 2010 REALLY MEAN?
Has it JUST suddenly discovered this 1970 science paper? Was this paper secret?
No. The paper wasn’t secret. Scientists don’t work in secrecy, but TRANSPARENTLY, with both friends and enemies able to read every word they write. They did so then, and they do so now.
This journalist, and Prison Planet also, were slipshod in their work and never got ANYWHERE NEAR where the truth lies. I don’t think they believe in real research at all. They only wish to promote their current agenda.
If you REALLY wish to discover the real truth then follow the procedures laid out in my first comment here. If you do, you will rediscover the link I mention here.
For those of you who do not wish to see this, well find something else to do. I think even less of you than you of me, believe me. Don’t ask me to go into details.

Dunagan Says:
Sulfur is possibly one of the chemicals eroding the ozone layer, by acting as a catalyst for halides. Once you get rid of that you create an endless dependency on the chem-trailing industry to block UV artificially. Sulfur is considered bad enough that reusable washable scrubbers are require in Australia on diesel vehicles. Synthetic diesel is another solution. The practice in North-America was to add metal nanoparticles to diesel fuel to hide the pollution and make it invisible. It proved to be disastrous to the environment however. Just be warned about Mad Scientists — they will do things that are absolutely wrong at times. The largest chem-trail contractor I believe is the CIA company Evergreen. So the people that have in the past sprayed the population with poisonous chemicals, using people as experimental lab rats, are in behinds this madness. Would you rather trust nature or the CIA to decide what you breath. God give us a break from the insanity.

Green Leader Reply:
Yahweh has taken this matter personal. Watch what will happen to those responsible – you WILL laugh!

JazzRoc Reply:
I’m laughing now.
300,000,000 tons of sulfur dioxide blew into the stratosphere when Tambora erupted.
What happened as a consequence? The Earth cooled by a couple of degrees for a couple of years…
It is NOT POSSIBLE to “get rid of” the ozone layer. Ozone is made CONTINUALLY by the absorption of the energy of SUNSHINE by molecules of OXYGEN.
The season why stratospheric temperature increases with altitude is BECAUSE the by-product of this energy exchange is an INCREASE in thermal energy. The UV wavelengths responsible are absorbed by the TOP of the atmosphere first, and are GONE by the time they have reached as far down as the tropopause. As for the “CIA deciding” what you breathe – I just KNOW you are innumerate with respect to the size of the Earth. The area of the United States is ONE FIFTIETH the area of the Earth.
Fear management is best achieved by EDUCATION. You should try it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
You should stop listening to the lies of secret military ops disinfo campaign and the nefarious scientist who help create it. Every wonder why so many scientist die every year? All one needs is logic to figure things out. I knew something was up just through observation and having been around before this spray campaign went full on. Scientists tried to convince us of global warming, they destroyed real evidence which didn’t agree. Fortunately infowarriors are educated and observant.

JazzRoc Reply:
Their lies or YOUR lies – interest me not at all. You aren’t at all aware of how tramelled your mind is, and you’ve already spent FAR too much time accepting ideas which CONFIRM your preconceptions, and rejecting everything that doesn’t fit. In effect, you have damaged your mind. Don’t give it a thought. I don’t.

FreedomLover Reply:
OBVIOUSLY! LOL

RBBB Says:
The newscast was from a t.v. station in Louisiana. The pics at the chemtrails section of my website: reverendbillybobbuck.com/aapip are from Louisiana. All taken by me. Be sure to pick up the 3 songs for download, gratis, in the music section. Take it easy.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Hey Truth Brings Freedom, The chemtrails have stopped over Central Texas for about the last six weeks. If the chemtrails were only ordinary jet exhaust, how do you explain their recent vanishing? This is when my friends and family finally got it. I asked them why they didn’t see any chemtrails recently? I asked them if JET TRAVEL had suddenly ceased during the past month and a half? Well, what happened, have all the jets been grounded? Have people stopped flying? I don’t know why they’ve stopped, but I am glad they are not spraying us here. Easy way to wake people up, I talk to my sons so that others can here us at soccer games or at the park. I’ll say “Wow, why no lines in the sky, nobody flying today”

truthbringsfreedom Reply:
Between flightpath changes (they do change you know) and weather changes, contrails have been that sporadic for my entire life. Not trying to prove you wrong, just relating my personal experience. I can go for days without seeing one jet in the sky, and then see 7 in one day. Same goes for contrails behind the jets. One thing is for certain… long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that. If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. And by the way… doesn’t Bush live in Texas along with a bunch of other globalist elites? Do you really think he would be poisoning the air he breathes every day. Think. Obviously they take the fluoride out of their water. But do you really think he gets alerts for when they’re spraying and goes into a special room with its own oxygen generator and doesn’t go outside for 3 days?

dead_squirrel Reply:
Bush bought real estate properties in Latin America, so it would be foolish not to think bush would not travel in there without your knowledge (why not help the extermination of a nation that hates him and fly constantly?). Latin America doesn’t get as much chemtrails as other countries because the fraudsters consider it a piece a cake compared to US and it is where many of these small people make their big pharma investments. -squirley

GoodShootinTex Reply:
truth?brings freedom, what do you mean flightpath changes, that is laughable and a complete fraud to even pretend that flights are not taking place over central texas with our civil and military tansportation hubs. Are you ignorant or a troll. Flights take place over my house EVERY day of the year, all year, year in and year out. If they are taking place, and weather patterns are fairly stable (especially in the upper atmosphere) why have the chemtrails stopped? FACT: Chemtrails have stopped for about the last six weeks FACT: Flights have continued
… How much does the NWO pay you to troll?


truthbringsfreedom
Reply:
Hey GoodShootinTex, Have you ever seen it go for 6 weeks without raining? I have. That is weather related. There can be perfectly legitimate reasons that contrails are not occurring for 6 weeks. I’m not ignorant or a troll. I’m *not* trying to disprove chemtrailing. I’m trying to get you and inforwars to admit truth as part of getting to the bottom of all this. Let’s start with one truth, one piece of common ground we can agree on. There is at least one thing for certain, given the history of aviation photos available to the public. Long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that? Well, can you? If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. The truth is out there, but instead you see “trolls” and “ignorant people” on the “NWO payroll” if they acknowledge it. You’re a nutcase dude.
Also, dead_squirrel, you have no proof whatsoever that Bush leaves TX when they spray. You’re just making stuff up to provide evidence for your conspiracy. Sorry, your imagination is not what I consider “best evidence.” Also, there are more elitist globalists in TX than just Bush. Let me guess, they all fly to Bush’s property together, right?
Also, Wash. D.C. is full of globalists. However, there are contrails all over the skys of DC and VA. and MD, where they all live. So according to you, these people are knowingly poisoning themselves. Does that make any sense to you? Then why do you want me to believe it?

JazzRoc Reply:
A jet exhaust turns into a trail when the increased humidity of the air it has just flown through approaches saturation.
Quite often as the trail expands, the humidty drops below critical and then the trail appears to vanish.
I say “appears to” because, of course, the COLUMN of increased water vapor concentration remains, but is no longer visible.
I can show you vids of long-lasting contrails from 1943, and eyewitness accounts as well.
Whatever the ex-president does (he’s probably conspiring somewhere right now). I’m sure he doesn’t waste his time conforming to the straightjacket of an ignorant myth.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Plus, watch the sides of the sky, they are still spraying! I have noticed a reduced spraying in the past few weeks in E. TX. Beautiful skies and clouds like I haven’t seen in a loooong time.
But they haven’t stopped completely. But good idea pointing out that flights are still as normal, but the chemtrails aren’t
!

dead_squirrel Says:
SO they wanna keep the atmosphere cooler? I say we make it hotter despite the obvious global warming phenom… If all these chemicals go down it’s ’cause they are heavier than the air below. If that’s so, then the air below them, if hotter, will cause the particles to glide down towards the cooler air streams. Hot air goes up, cooler air goes wherever the wind blows.
I’m gonna try installing mirrors flat on the ground on my neighborhood, every one else may copy this in order to dispel these hot particles to areas other than your home. I can’t guarantee they’ll work for nightime spraying though. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
You will have to modify your theory, because although the temperature gets COLDER as you climb until it gets as cold as MINUS ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DEGREES FAHRENHEIT at the tropopause (25,000 feet), then after that the temperature RISES.
The stratosphere (where long-distance aircraft operate) is STABLE and layered BECAUSE its temperature rises with altitude.
Trails made at 35,000 feet have TWO MILES to fall downwards into progressively-cooling air, and this is what they do.
Particles remaining in a gas cannot have a temperature different from the gas.
In the case of engine exhausts, the gas molecules (of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and superheated steam) take about an EIGHTH of a second to cool from 1,300 degrees C to -40 degrees C.
That’s pretty fast…

dead_squirrel Reply:
My guess is that the particles fall at night then. So you’re right, the theory needs revision. But at night there is a need to know where the highest concentration of particles are. A laser visible at night and dawn using Raleigh scattering should be a chemtrail hunter’s tool. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
A GOES satellite is in orbit doing just that. Ground stations using LIDAR are also used.
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sa…..MC2006.pdf
Of course, these scientists (hundreds of them using the world’s finest instrumentation) appear to know nothing, for they find that trails are made of ICE – with tiny NON-METALLIC impurities.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just as in the “global warming” hoax, which proof was leaked (thank you hackers), much of technology and its “documented” results has been hidden from what the NWO calls “sheeple”.
The proof was leaked that the so-called scientists cooked the books to make global warming look real, when it is only a scam to push the cap & trade tax through. The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water. Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people. Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.


Texas IdentityCrisis
Reply:
Check out chemtrail busters, they do exactly what you are describing.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Earlier this spring when we were still getting sprayed, I would walk through the lawn and my feet would be covered with a fine grained reddish dust. I would have to wash my feet and legs with the hose. Now that they have stopped spraying us, I don’t have to wash that cr@p off my feet anymore. I should have gotten a sample and let Texas A&M tell me what was in it. If it starts again, I will find out. When the Revolution occurs, the people who ordered this upon us should be strung and hung. Buy guns, ammo, food, and water purification tools. See You at the Riots!

crazycanuck Says:
I read recently that sperm whales have high amounts of heavy metals in their blubbler, particularly aluminum and cadmium which are in chemtrails. Aluminum is in treated water supply so could be coming from both chemtrails and water effluent. Not a great deal of pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply.

Insanity Says:
Poison, I can believe, like in Moonraker, kill us all off when they’ve got the cleanup solution stashed away. I can also picture them triggering an ice age, or even just cooling off the planet a bit to contract agricultural activity and starving off billions of people. I also see them trying to position themselves for an artificial fresh water shortage. Bottom line, these people are sick, twisted and you are all fools for paying anything into their system. Why can’t you stop shopping at Walmart, buying new cars, and why don’t you buy a lathe or a set of tools or something instead of a worthless plasma screen? Get building your own local system and they can’t terrorize you anymore with theirs.

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t believe they have the time for much in that direction. Nor do they have the capability.
The real damage “they” are doing to the US is in allowing groundwater contamination and destroying field topsoil by plowing. With reduced microclimate wind protection (they’ve chopped down the trees) the topsoil just BLOWS AWAY.
But I’m just talking about manufacturing administrators, local politians, and farmers here…
Who EXACTLY do you mean by “they”?

Highlanderess Says:
All those side effects huh? Well, maybe that explains the behaviors of all the nutcases I have to speak with on a daily bases on my call center job.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Notice on heavy chemtrail days how people seem stressed to the nines.

Green Leader Reply:
More:
1) dogs desperately try to get indoors.
2) birds don’t fly around nor sing
3) meteorologists on TV look scared
4) surviving remaining bees stay in the hive
5) there are no rainbows
6) cumulus clouds dissapear and false cirrus appear
7) Green Leader curses the uncircumsized infidels destroying nature

JazzRoc Reply:
That’s apophenia. You are looking for signs to CONFIRM your preconceptions. That will REALLY ruin your (or someone else’s) existence one day. It’s the same sort of behavior which led to the torturing and killing of old single women as “witches”. The “test” was to “duck” them in the local pond. If they came up drowned, they were INNOCENT (but went to Heaven, obviously). If they came up alive, they were GUILTY, and were burnt at the stake. NICE.
Any animal with body fat will accumulate heavy metals there. Do you have fat? You’re doing it too. Heavy metals are part of the earth, as is Life itself. You will find them in soil. Plants you eat grow in that. Do the metals go straight through them to you? No. Not exactly. The plant wil sequester and excrete the metals. Why? Because aeons ago plants that didn’t, died.
You are no different from the plants. You also sequester and excrete heavy metals. You and the plants are both in a state of dynamic equilibrium, and can (and do) take a certain amount of contamination in your stride. Aluminum IS used to DEFLOCCULATE the water supply. It does this job as an INSOLUBLE compound which DOES NOT go on to contaminate the supply.
So WHY would there be “pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply” when “chemtrails” are a MYTH, and there’s NO “aluminization”?

Texas IdentityCrisis
Reply:
I guess increased cancer, Alzheimer’s and asthma, etc., have nothing to do with anything. Just it’s in the earth and the earth is causing all these increases in disease despite your beloved scientists/science. I guess volcanoes are causing these increases YA SCIENCE EXPERIMENT FREAK!

JazzRoc Reply:
Everything ALWAYS has SOMETHING to to with anything. Cancers form from irritation and genetic predisposition. Alzheimer’s is caused by dietary problems and genetic predisposition. Asthma is an allergic reaction to do with the genetic predisposition of the immune system and exposure to pollens, dusts, and diesel particulates. Your identity crisis follows from your inadequacy in maths and science and a certain gullibility.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, everything is due to genetics. That’s science for ya! Get real douche.

JazzRoc Reply:
NO. Everything is due to COMBINATIONS of these inputs with genetics. The inputs are variables. The genetics may respond in multitudinous ways to such variables. Of course, I forget, you’re intellectually-challenged. Tip: science is about measurement, calculation, and prediction. That’s REAL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, science it too hard for us dummies to understand. :/

TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
Over the past month I have been watching the skies with my binoculars cause that’s all I’ve got. I live about 30 miles from Travis airforce base. Its hard to track these planes but there is a lot of what I call spraying going on. They will spray so much that there will be a haze in the sky as if there was a fire. I’m no scientist but something isnt right here and everyday people don’t even notice it. Good luck

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Use your eyes, ears, and all other senses, logic. Yeah man, there is something amiss. Get that s—e on video!

TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
One thing I don’t get is if the water crystallizes at 25000 ft at minus 30c then why isn’t there trails at night?

JazzRoc Reply:
There are.

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM
http ://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a778783829~db=all
“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
There are, they love to spray when nobody’s watching. Watch when there’s a full moon, you’ll see ‘em flying all around it trying to block it.

JazzRoc Reply:
Gibberish.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Well I don’t need a scientific report to determine what my eyes can see.

JazzRoc Reply:
You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!

Snow Says:
Chemtrails are being sprayed here today as we speak. Having a bit of a breathing problem and I’m getting thirstier.

djjasonxxx Says:
UK US POLICE STATE 2010 PART 2 G20 FOOTAGE AND MORE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM_W-nVTVQg

Highlanderess Says:
We are destroying ourselves with chemtrails, big pharma, vaccinations, car exhausts and the crap they’re putting in our foods to make them addicting….just to name a few.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the leader article: “The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
The above statement is TRUE, but the way you interpret this sentence is NOT.
“Forcing” here is a technical term talking about the NATURAL physics that takes place whether Man exists or NOT. It does NOT mean anything to do with Mankind FORCING these changes,
The planes used to fly through the lower atmosphere have devices to PULL IN air to analyze, and NOT to PUSH OUT air to contaminate.
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/
It is TYPICAL in sites like this to push ignorance and nisunderstanding as far as possible, and to hide the truth.
“90% of EVERYTHING is CRUD” – THEODORE STURGEON
“The other 10% is SCIENCE” – JAZZROC

duck Says:
Everyone should record video of any plane spraying a chemtrail with the date and time documented on the video. Then take the video to the FAA and file a FOIA request to find out who owns the plane and, thereofore, who is responsible for the chemtrail. We can then go after the owner of the plane with a lawsuit to try to open this can of worms and make them face the music.

JazzRoc Says:
Texas IdentityCrisis: “To JazzRoc – so you are suggesting this is not a secretive military op?”
It’s not ANY SORT of op. It’s just what happens when internal combustion engines fly through the stratosphere. It’s produced by burning hydrocarbon fuels. It’s WATER.
Not only that, but only a ten-thousandth of the water of a large speading trail comes from the plane’s fuel.
The rest COMES OUT OF THE AIR as accreting ICE (probably at around 30,000 feet) and RETURNS TO THE AIR (probably beneath 20,000 feet) as it evaporates in the warmer air to WATER VAPOR.
None of the trails you see come from anywhere except the engines – and those engines would be DESTROYED by passing metals through them. Think Iceland and volcanic dust – which is similar.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
So you ascertain, with all your scientific knowledge, yet neglecting logic, that because you believe it, it is so. You assume a lot and your sort of assuming is dangerous. So much for those who lean on science, who’ve yet to realize science is subject to corruption and those who are of the worlds smartest, murder can even be a job related benefit. Further, you embrace some science and other science you ridicule. There has been plenty of testing and scientific observation on the matter to make it clear, that chemtrails ain’t contrails. Therefore you, all by yourself, have discredited those YOU blindly follow. As well as your beloved and somehow in your mind, faultless science. Science may faultless, humans and scientists aren’t. The latter are inherently corruptible. Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly, FEMA camps are real, and 911 was an inside job. Climategate has all but destroyed the globalwarming movement, etc., get it? The MIC does not have your best interest at heart. Got it?

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t BELIEVE anything. Science is NOT a belief system. Belief means requiring no physical evidence. Science ALWAYS requires hard evidence, with reason to follow. People are sometimes corrupt, but science is not, nor is mathematics. And, by-the-way, scientists follow SCIENCE, not OTHER scientists.
I embrace science, yes, but “chemtrail” science is an OXYMORON. Those two words just cannot come together without seeming funny. EVERY chemtrailer test or assertion is a FAIL. You guys have NEVER been correct. EVER.
“Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly” – see what I mean? FAIL. You really don’t deserve to live in modern times. And the word is FLUORIDE.
“FEMA camps are real” – That’s a FAIL on your projected usage.
“and 911 was an inside job” is a FAIL on logical and engineering grounds. You are crediting the Bush administration with FAR TO MUCH CAPABILITY.
“Climategate” “destroyed” nothing at all. It did show that GW deniers didn’t mind stealing and privacy intrusion in their desperation to carry out their orders. They represent about 3% of the world’s atmospheric scientists. The other 97% DISAGREE.
“The MIC does not have your best interest at heart” That was said by Dwight D. Eisenhower as he left office in 1961. I believed him then, and I still do.
It’s YOU that’s doing the assuming here. You are concentrating NOT on whether the TOPIC is CORRECT, but on whether or not I am some sort of shill. How, when you so consistently stray from the point, can you EVER be correct?
Science is the closest anyone will ever get to the HARD, PHYSICAL, FACTUAL TRUTH. If you call yourself a “truthseeker”, yet deny science, you’re heading for a world of FAIL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence. I reject science that says military airplanes aren’t spraying civilians and all our food and water sources with deadly chemical spray, so they can curb global warming. Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible. There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911, if there is you should provide it. Fema camps can easily be located on Google maps, Flouride was used by Hitler to sterilize and dumb down, The MIC is running the black op chemtrails. People who believe everything ’scientific’ they hear, without using their own logic are certainly subscribing to a belief system. It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science.

JazzRoc Reply:
“I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence” – Reference? Produce it and let’s see.
“military airplanes” – Then WHY does almost every YT vid show passenger planes? Do you realize that 70,000 tanker flights would be needed, and that these planes CANNOT REACH the stated altitude of 80,000 feet?
“Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible” – of course – they’re people. But are they murdered etc, in greater numbers than any other sector of the population?
“There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911?” – Yes there is, and you’ve seen it. You just don’t understand it.
I’ll tell you a little true story. I was searching for an approximate value for the potential energy stored in a WTC tower, in order to figure out its potential heat value, and therefore how much steel it could POSSIBLY melt if ALL that energy were converted into heat.
The answer is 2,700 tons of steel. (Provided by a “truther” engineer who, for some reason, thought it was necessary to demonstrate that because ALL the tower steel hadn’t melted, then there was no possible reason for a pit of molten steel to exist at the base of the towers, other than foul play, etc., etc.)
Of course, in the pit was a few hundred tons of molten steel (out of the 2,700), and the rest of the energy was spent pulverizing concrete, heating up a lot of air and dust, and making a racket.
That engineer must have been as popular as a sausage in a synagogue.
“It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science” – said the DUNCE to the physics teacher – on the web. Well smack my gob. LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s time to stop responding to JazzRoc. This is a troll. An intelligent troll, but still a troll, using “science”, which these days is full of liars to prove points that go directly against the evidence and trying to make us all look like fools. Not all scientists are liars, but many are involved in the rape of the earth and its people for profit, and the ones who rebel against the globalists end up dead. JR has obviously NEVER seen a chemtrail. He says a million can testify to what he sees. Probably so, but millions MORE are experiencing the results of this chemtrail fallout. So his points are invalidated. Pure science could fix this earth, but globalists are using pure science to destroy it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Yes sir, you are right, he’s hell bent.

JazzRoc Reply:
Chemtrailers are TROLLS en masse. Sites like these exist, chemtrailers think, merely so that “truthers” may compare notes and agree with each other.
But there has NEVER been a greater MUTILATION of MEANING and TRUTH than this cockeyed “movement”, well, not since Orwell’s “1984?
Not a single CNUT can debate rationally or interpret evidence intelligently.
The BEST way to understand one is to INVERT THE MEANING OF EVERYTHING THEY WRITE OR SPEAK.
Without exception, they are ALL on the fast and easy road to F – A – I – L
They all go “JazzRoc, you’re OH so perfect, eh?” – (Well, NO, I’m fallible actually!)
ANd Jazzy replies “NO! It’s YOU! That’s SUCH CRAP! TRY TO DO BETTER – SAVE YOURSELF!”
etc., etc.
Calling normal people trolls when you’re one yourself, calling competent professional experienced people “sheep” and “shills” when you all bleat together like a pack of sheep yourselves – these are ESPECIALLY irritating habits you ALL share.
But the way you handle “truth”, wow, THAT really takes the biscuit.

FreedomLover Reply:
Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up. The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed. Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings. I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.

Lion Reply:
Barium anomaly preceded the KT boundary event. (Is PP’s glass the same as Springerlink’s orthoclase (silicate)?
springerlink . com / content / v671181266t15g8h /
Abstract Maastrichtian–Danian strata of the Cauvery basin as well as selected sections of NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel record Ba anomalies, away from the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary (KTB) in addition to common occurrences of geochemical and stable isotopic anomalies across the KTB. Ba anomalies were recorded in monotonous shallow marine sandstones of the Cauvery basin (south India) which contain minor amounts of Ba-orthoclase. Barium anomalies were observed also in shallow marine carbonates in sections of Israel, NE-Mexico and Guatemala. Calculation of excess Ba with reference to PAAS (Post-Archaen Average Australian Shale), comparison of coeval geochemical anomalies, depositional pattern and associated petrographic and mineralogical features of the Cauvery basin revealed that while a first Ba peak was related to detrital influx, the second Ba peak was coincident with sea level fall which in turn may have been influenced by emission of volatile hydrocarbons and resultant climatic changes. In view of intrinsic involvement of Ba in various geochemical processes and occurrence of Ba anomalies in K/T sites distributed around the world (NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel), it is suggested that probable causes of such widespread Ba-anomalies should be taken into consideration while analyzing end Cretaceous events. These observations support the views espoused by many workers who have stated that the K/T boundary was also accompanied by many non-catastrophic events that might have contributed to environmental stress on marine fauna, as a result of which selective multi-stage extinctions occurred.
I perceive a propagandist theme, in which “Earth changes” are mundane, daily business – caused by mankind, and under its control. ‘All we have to is come together…’ (agree to collectivist mandates.)

JazzRoc Reply:
Earth changes are OBVIOUSLY not under our control.
As for COMING TOGETHER, are we to take our example from the US?
Religion needs DEMOLITION before we can become a global collective.
Subtleties might be developed AFTER we get rid of the BIG STUFF, eh?

Lion Says:
I find it annoying that humankind is given credit for affecting everything, until there is no wonder left in the natural world; some guy must be causing this, or it is my fault.
The epicenters of earthquakes of inconceivable forces dot the globe. Gas bubbles rise from untouched springs in the hidden tarpits and volcanic mountains of every continent. Yet, one borehole is said to damage the crust beyond repair, because you took the car out on a short ride. Airborne sulfur and glass are blamed on airtravel, because you bought a trinket over the internet.
Many places, with “traditional’ character, outwardly, were given entitlements by the govt to keep things the way they were, like game reserves with people living on them. Even as his mental freedoms were stymied, and applied knowledge became overwhelmed with trolls in every media, the little guy knew he witnessed global de-industrialization, for decades. After a global treaty, prophesied in the Bible, people are reduced to fighting on horseback, with swords and bows, but well-kept, well-studied, and well-connected televangelists go through odd, mental contortions to explain it. Most people were never so coordinated with their surroundings as to be certain that hygiene, shelter, and nutrition were natural miracles. “For three [things] the earth is disquieted, and for four [which] it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat; For an odious [woman] when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.” – from Proverb 30. Aren’t these people really asking you to pick up their slack? Your humble pleasures are being taken from you, to cover for the misdeeds of others.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the lead article here:
“In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature.”
The newscast focuses on Barium, which its “research” shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails”. KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA.”
If you watch this video you can see immediately something is wrong here. It’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million. So what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC: “The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].” So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
Summary:
* Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month.
* The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
* The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium.
* The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails.
http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
Debunking EVERY “chemtrail” MYTH, one-by-one:
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com
Oh, yeah.
Stamps, Arkansas, is SLAP BANG in the middle of a BARIUM MINING AREA.

No shit.

Texas Identity crisis: “I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.”
Are “the elite” pale? I’ve seen the queen in Southport, and, come-to-think-of-it, yes, she was pale… Are pale people harmful? Do “the elite” live in Tenerife, Spain? Tell me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Looks like it. Sounds like it, smells like it. You must be one of the globalists.

TheExorcist Says:
I told you so.

JazzRoc Says:
FreedomLover:
“No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.”
Eight years. There’s an hourly overflight from Europe to Brazil/Argentina which strikes heavy trails on occasion. The island gets covered by Saharan sandstorms a few times each year. Now, THAT’s an absolute TREAT of particulates. By the way, WHEN particulates are in the air you will find NO rainbow effects. This is a PROOF that chemtrailers are WRONG when they say that particulates cause “chembows”. They DO NOT, and there’s a million people here who could testify to that.
“I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.”
I’ve worked in a few oil site offices, so I know fairly well what must have taken place. The managerial class shares a similarity with chemtrailers, in that they really believe it’s possible to BEND the rules of physics. Well it’s not, and other people paid the price. So far it all looks very incompetent to me. Horrific.
“The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.”
I’ll take no advice from someone who follows the 2000 year old writings of a bunch of semitic natives of the Middle East, thanks. Nor am I interested in the moneyed class.
The world will NOT destroy itself as long as people like me (builders) avoid taking advice from people that cannot build – like you. There’s no chance of that happening…

FreedomLover Reply:
My “building” is way different from yours. This world as it is was not meant to last. You completely ignore the warnings gathered from the globalists’ own mouths, so when trouble comes to you, you’ll still deny that anything sinister is being put into practice. Google the Georgia Guidestones and read the “commandments” carved in stone. Then think about what it means to most of the people on this planet. Think DEEPLY, maybe the truth will come to you. Unless of course you’re a globalist yourself and believe that you’re above all this. Have a nice life, while it lasts. I’ll not be responding to you again.

JazzRoc Says:
Jazzroc: You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?
Texas IdentityCrisis: “Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!”
You didn’t answer my question. Again.
How can you expect to win a discussion point by resorting to abuse? Again.

calisurfer Says:
I have been looking at what is called the so-called chemtrail phenomenon for awhile and pass through here every now and then. It looks like a debunker that makes the rounds also is here. That would be JazzRoc.
People have shouted shill. I doubt that. The dose of clear thinking he provides could serve as an antidote to things some others serve up.
Carnicom was mentioned. If you listen to him we are all infected with something awful.
When approached through email for abc steps in blood work so some people at a university with access to an electron microscope could take a look the silence was deafening. Wrote that one off.
JazzRoc is secure in what he knows, has looked at some of the outlandish claims, and justifiably counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be. He is, however, “stuck,” (as are most… notice I did NOT say everybody) in his own world. “I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.” ““Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS…”
These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through it. Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest. Strange times. Strange things. And sometimes some very strange things in the sky. I think some things touched upon in quantum mechanics regarding perception and what is real have come into play in some of it. And JazzRoc, I too am obliged by and to the scientific method and mathematics.
People, don’t hate JazzRoc. And JazzRoc, don’t hate people. Don’t use your background and knowledge as an excuse in doing so. Your background and knowledge have their limits. You’ve bumped into the edges of them and are self-confined.

FreedomLover Reply:
Cali, much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzrock doesn’t understand is that very few things remain “pure”. Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays. Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet. Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy. THAT is what Jazzroc is failing to see.
Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead. People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not. We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that there is another entity loose on this planet (satan), whose hatred for humanity is beyond human understanding. I am speaking to those who have a consciousness of God, but I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ and I will NEVER recant that commitment or be ashamed to call Him Lord and Saviour. We are all going to die someday, whether the NWO lets us live to old age and die in our sleep in our beds (probably not), or something else takes us out. “For it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment.” We can deny what God has said all we want, but it’s like gravity. There are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws. Jump off a building denying the law of gravity and someone will still have to clean up the bloody mess. How hard can it be to see the truth except when someone has on deception-colored glasses?
And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?
Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified. “Global warming” debunked. Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?


JazzRoc
Reply:
“Much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzroc doesn’t understand is that very few things remain ‘pure’.”
One of the FIRST things one does before a match (if one wishes to win) is to NEVER underestimate your opponent. You just have…
“Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays.”
Hmm. Yet electrons circle the nucleus of an atom frictionlessly for EVER…
“Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet.”
The last time I looked, the population was still rising, and there were no specially-overcrowded hospitals. The last “mass die-off” I can recall (excluding earthquakes and tsunamis) was 40,000 pensioners in France in 2004 – due to the highest recorded temperatures in France since records began.
“Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy.”
The snags with this idea are that a) NO-ONE CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE, and b) EUGENICS DIED FROM AN EVOLUTIONARY UNDERSTANDING OF GENETICS. Totally dead, that one…
“Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead.”
What’s this? YOU obviously weren’t affected by the Cold War and Mutually-Assured-Destruction? LOL
“People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not.”
NOT. You believe words written by nomadic desert tribesmen four thousand years ago in the Middle East, added to by “jobbing” Essene psychedically-enhanced priests in Palestine, and finally compiled by a convocation of cardinals in Istambul? Bravo! Ah, but you were taught to abandon reason from childhood starting at an age when your parents should have been kinder to you, and taught you to respect reason. Tough. Mine were kinder.
“We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that”
Good until this point. Gibberish thereafter. The fact that the lowest human emotion is FEAR, and if these people fear us, it might be we have given them reason to do so. Consider Afghanistan and Iraq. Sure, those people who ARE manipulating the rest of us may well be in “spasm” too. Fear is the LOWEST emotion because of the paralyzing effect it can have on rational thought. Religion uses fear (of death) to manipulate its congregations. Anyone for Heaven? Better than Hell, eh? You don’t return from there… eternal torture… God revenges…
Chemtrails uses fear to manipulate its “customers”. Colloidal silver, orgone, coriander, anyone? Don’t disagree with me, you SHILL.
“And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?”
Well, you’re a LIAR, and I expect better of you.
“Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified.”
Not if it is Science. Until it is. Then, not if it is Science. Keep repeating that.
“Global warming” debunked.”
By tobacco interests? What keeps debunking this debunking are mass die-offs of old people in hot weather. There will be more…
“Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?”
Here your lack of scientific understanding has REALLY LET YOU DOWN. Neither you nor the data-burglars are capable of interpreting the science shorthand employed.
It’s rather similar to the ARM aerosol planes. These SUCK. They DON’T BLOW. They are gathering data. What for? Understanding how and why atmospheric particulates are DIMMING the solar flux. They are NOT proof that the PTB plan to spray you.
It all boils down to this:
If you don’t know what your talking about, shut up, and go to a library, and study up. Keep quiet until you REALLY know what you’re talking about, and before you begin, learn the rules of debate and the pitfalls of thinking, so that you may properly respect the rights of those who may not agree with you.
Notice I say LIBRARY.
“These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through.”
Wrong. For “terrified” read “horrified”. I am a cheerful and courageous person who has built and flown his own airplane, and never shied away from a fight. I hate bullies and respond, you might say, very badly to them. It may be the reason I had more than sixty jobs in my working life.
“Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest.”
Wrong again. Are you afflicted by dyslexia? Persistent contrails were first witnessed in 1921, persistent spreading ones in 1943, they have occurred (as they MUST) EVERY TIME ANY AIRCRAFT HAS FLOWN THROUGH SUPERSATURATED AIR.
Just because apophenics have clustered their myth-making abilities to fabricate “chemtrails” over the last decade, they should be believed? Of course not. They should be TREATED.
You must have missed it before, so I’ll restate it right now: there is NO physical evidence as to the existence of chemtrails, just as there isn’t to God, Jahwe, Jehovah, Allah, fairies, witches, hobgoblins, and the SPAGHETTI MONSTER.
If there’s NO evidence for whatever – DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT, and do yourself a favor. Live your life as best you can, as if it were your ONLY opportunity, for it IS your only opportunity.
DO NOT support the PTB. That’s easily done by NOT USING MONEY. Build a passive solar home. Gather your food and energy. Practise PERMACULTURE. Say goodbye to the PTB.
There are some helpful and directing videos here:

http ://www.youtube.com/user/beachcomber2008  And yes, I am a musician:

http ://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/38493

calisurfer Says:
“counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be.” through. I will be breaking out a new keyboard today. That has been happening too often.

JazzRoc Reply:
I know what you mean. The sides of the keys get rougher over time.

Mothman Says:
We see the spraying, the results and even the jets spraying all over the world. We should ask who pays for this spraying and if this is an international effort are the costs shared?
Knowing who pays should be followed by who controls the whole operation? The jets, the pilots, the chemical transport to the aviation assets, the people? Who are these individuals or groups involved?
We must begin to ask who is involved and why? When they use national security as an excuse, then I would use Congress or the Senate to ensure that what is being done is not some complete and total UN program that impedes on our sovereignty while it forces the American public to pay for something that is designed to kill the populations of the world.

Mr. Clear View Reply:
Look. You’ve been fed a bunch of hogwash and believe it. Red herrings are thrown at you and you eat them. If it was all designed to kill you, how come you are still sitting and typing?
It’s the progeny of the Star Wars program. Toys for big boys. Crud spewed for hitting by rf to make a plasma to play with. Some dedicated planes for when more precision is necessary.
Sub-micron particles of aluminum in jet fuel that are small enough to polish the blades rather than destroy the engine outright in commercial. Any health side effects are besides the point of it all, and are just a bonus. Like a multinational that has one tentacle in the cigarette biz and another in cancer drugs. Are the people that get a paycheck and have the zeal for the toys overly concerned about you? About as much as those who sent and then tracked the soldiers in Plumbbob’s Smoky.

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s a SLOW kill, just like every other thing these maggots put into place. If they attacked the world’s people all at once with a single weapon, the people would wake up and rise up in revolution. Do some clear research on Hitler and what his cronies did to people. These are not simple killers. They are the type that would pull the wings off a butterfly, watch it crawl around for half an hour and then fry it with a magnifying glass. They love misery, suffering and torture. These are not sane or happy people. We have to get over the delusion that they know what’s best and have our best interests at heart. They don’t. Get over it.

JazzRoc Reply:
You must be simple. Well, simple person, there is NO such thing as a “spraying nozzle” fitted to ANY aircraft which produces the trails you see in the sky. TRAILS are made by COOLING the turbofan engine exhaust down from 1300 to -40 degrees Celsius between 25,000 and 40,000 feet up in the stratosphere. They are made by the COMBINATION of the COLD and the HUMIDITY of the air they are laid in. “Chemtrails” are MYTHOLOGICAL and NOT TRUE. Being FALSE, there is NO NEED to ask who originated them, just as there is NO NEED to wonder whether the SPAGHETTI MONSTER created JEHOVAH. Your UN paranoia is a great laugh, thanks for that.

Lion Reply:
You never explicitly tell us what you would acknowledge as evidence of chemtrails, God, or the criminality of the UN.

JazzRoc Reply:
That would be worthless hypothesizing.
First:
Demonstrate CHEMTRAILS.
Demonstrate GOD.
Demonstrate UN criminality.
They’re YOUR ideas, not mine, so DEMONSTRATE them to me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just wait around a couple more years. There is no convincing you now. But you’ll see. Unfortunately by the time you crawl out of that comfortable little shell of a neat little scientific world view that says everything is done for the good of mankind and there are no tyrants, it will probably be too late.

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course there are tyrants. Societies need to kurb them. To do so they need “good intelligence”. I couldn’t agree more.
But let us consider WHAT intelligence might be “good”, shall we?
I’ll make the suggestion that BAD SCIENCE, WRONG INFORMATION, EYEWITNESS STATEMENTS, and FRAUDULENT MANIPULATION do NOT produce GOOD INFORMATION.
In time of WAR, the side with poor intelligence LOSES.
DO YOU WANT TO LOSE?
Do you want me fighting against you?
Are you waiting for Nibiru? LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
Get thee behind me, satan. You’re using your super-intelligence and super-ego AGAINST the world’s people. You’re exposed and defeated. The minute you deny there are evil people in the world who use everything in their power to carry out a depopulation agenda, your words are no longer worth considering, no matter how logical or book-learned you are. These brutal maggots have MONEY – get it? Money can buy a whole lot of suffering for those they deem unworthy of life. From their own mouths come the words “too many people on earth, we have to do something about this.” Here’s a good idea. Go to Rockefeller, Holdren, Pelosi et al, and preach your scientific gospel to them. Change their minds about what they’re doing. Use your scientific expertise to help the human race instead of killing them off. By your inaction, your complete failure in offering ANY beneficial solutions, you’re contributing to the suffering and death of millions. That smells like NWO. Who died and made you God anyway? Who gave you the authority to puff yourself up and say that because you have some training and experience, that makes your life more valuable in God’s eyes than some poor half-starved child in a third-world country? Your arrogance stinks.

ShieldsRdown Says:
Danger In The Sky – The Chemtrail Phenomenon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A

JazzRoc Reply:
Has a debunker in its midst – Beachcomber2008. That guy is ME.

DreamToShare Says:
SHINING DUST is what we see now a days. Run your hand on a dusty area and hold it under the sun light, it shines.

truthorconsequence Says:
Interestingly enough, our skies have been suspciously clear since the BP spill happened…could it be that the bulk of those chemicals that have been sprayed via air are now being dumped into the Gulf? Has NALCO been linked to chemtrail related activity?

FreedomLover Reply:
I don’t know. We’ve had no chemtrailing for 2 days now, skies clear of clouds, but a persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore. And electric discharge that used to only happen in the winter.

JazzRoc Reply:
By “electric discharge” you mean STATIC ELECTRICITY. That means your air is DRY.
A persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore is PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG which has been trapped in an INVERSION. Inversions form over cities, especially where the cities are sited geographically in a “bowl” of surrounding hillsides. If you are concerned about the air you breathe then complain to your local govt.

FreedomLover Reply:
They don’t listen. Neither do you.

TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
I’m not here to argue I’m hear to ask questions. Why is it when I see a fighter jet as a spec shooting across the sky there’s no contrail? Why aren’t contrails constant if they are just water vapor? seems to me they are tuned on and off.

JazzRoc Reply:

The air that creates a contrail is THIN. One tenth the pressure at ground level. It’s cold. At this time of the year it will be -40 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s humid. It will be 85% Relative Humidity or greater. It’s HIGH UP. It will be anywhere over about 25,000 feet. I say “anywhere” because it will be trapped in a relatively thin and flat LAYER (or several of them) anywhere between 25,000 and 45,000 feet. Above this height the temperature is rising with altitude, and conditions become less favorable.
The kicker is that these layers of differing humidity are all TRANSPARENT and cannot be distinguished from the ground. I have noticed that it is possible to spot them from the aircraft by looking at the horizon. Jet streams in these layers are fast-moving and can be fairly opaque with fine ice crystals. Planes passing through them make thick trails in these conditions.
Freedom Lover:
“jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.”
You haven’t contested a single point I have made. Instead you resort to AD HOMINEMs like there were no tomorrow. These ad homs you can neither prove, nor I disprove. They’re TIMEWASTERS. I can understand WHY you would rather waste time than get to the truth: you don’t want to lose an argument.
“Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR.”
It is MORE ARROGANT of you to speak from a position of ignorance than it is for me to speak from a position of experience.
“If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people.”
I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.
“The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist.”
I’m asking you to IGNORE A PROBLEM WHICH DOESN’T EXIST. There are plenty of conspiracies left to check out.
“NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.”
I’m retired already. Your problem, apophenia and ignorance is CURABLE. There is work to do. Finding a counter-effort to the Tea Party and Neocon moves might be a good isea, for instance.
“You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.”
As you haven’t contested a single point of science which I have made, interested onlookers might consider YOU “busted”.
Until you conduct a proper debate, it’s YOU who is the troll.

FreedomLover Reply:
“I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.”
Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree. Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.
I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone. There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it. So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?

JazzRoc Reply:
“Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree.”
That’s another of my gifts. I should have used it sooner in my life, for sure, but I’m certainly not going to miss the opportunity to use it now. My advice is TRUE and GOOD. Follow it.
“Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.”
You’re correct, technology does indeed exist that will EASILY save the Human Race from distress, let alone extinction, and I’ll admit I’m NO LONGER trying to do so, that’s true, but I DID spend thirty years trying. How long have YOU spent? But you’re also quite WRONG: I have indeed offered my best advice here on these pages. If you haven’t noticed, yet received one of my boots in your face, it was indeed well-deserved. Look again.
“I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone.”
These people are both cushioned AND alienated, and I’ll buy that. I wouldn’t trust them any further than I could throw them either. But they only have as much power of you as you allow them. If you don’t use their money they have NO power over you at all.
“There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it.”
Sorry, the scientist in me sees NO evidence whatsoever. You should trust my judgement here – I know, fat chance.
“So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?”
The only non-troll part of YOU is this SLIGHT tendency you have to discuss something with me. The rest is ALL troll.
“Good disinfo” is a classic oxymoron.
I used to be a warm, open-hearted, and somewhat gullible person in the early sixties. The LAST time I was deceived was around 1984. The man responsible for that deception is in a Los Angeles jail right now facing a 170-year sentence.
“JR, do you really think you’re going to escape everything that’s coming on the world? You can go join the elite in their deep underground military bases and maybe survive for awhile. But you’ll still die one day. What then? I’m trying to be kind in response to your swaggering scoffing, but you make it pretty darned hard.”
I have NO WISH to escape the future. However my children and grandchildren deserve better than your poor imagination can envisage. The “elite” have no desire for me, and the feeling’s mutual. So I’ll die. I won’t be worrying after that. Sorry about the difficulties I seem to put you in, but (yawns, forgets)…
“Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up.”
Tut-tut. You blow hot, you blow cold… I’m more concerned with protecting the interests of my grandchildren. And my aims aren’t THAT high either. I KNOW that what (you might call) CASUAL onlookers are going to think. Let me tell you this. They are going to see a theme with a PERSISTENT OPPOSITION running through it. They can choose either way, it’s no matter. There’s just NOT GOING TO BE a visibly-consistent consensus. And that will work. The continual dissonance has a way of working itself through the subconscious mind more frequently, and ONE DAY, could be (certainly has been!) years away, you will ask yourself again exactly why you disagreed with me, and re-examine your own motivations for doing so.
“The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed.”
I used to live in North Wales. Do you know that sheep invented VELCRO? They learned it by sticking themselves to thornbushes (right up in the air). I used to pick them off the hawthorns when their plight become unbearable to watch. A minute or two laughing, then – pluck.
“Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings.”
No, seriously, I AM fallible. The point is that to be responsible you have to humbly admit to youself that you ARE fallible. You then stand a greater chance of remedying your mistakes BEFORE you make them.
“I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.”
The Earth is an oblate spheroid. The North Pole is five miles closer than the South Pole to the DEAD CENTER of the Earth. Hot stuff there, dense nickel/iron plasmatic solid core, fission-driven to a temperature as hot as the surface of the Sun.
I live on a small volcanic desert made by a natural, soft “concrete” formed by the action of rainfall on what was once a massive pyroclastic flow. Above me fertile volcanic soils, above them hardwoods and fruit trees, above them pine forests, above them ragged and sour volcanic ridges through which run sleek greyhound-like wild dogs. Below me the shoreline replete with shrimps and other tasty arthropods, crabs, pretty fish, and pretty tasty fish. Get me?
“Just as in the “global warming” hoax [snip] cap & trade tax through.”
I thought we’d covered this. The whole thing’s a scam by 3% self-appointed experts – with 97% of atmospheric scientists in direct opposition. A bit of DISPARITY there…
“The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water.”
I’m the grandson of a Welsh coal-miner, thanks, with nothing in the bank. I’m part of your “poor, poorer” sector. But as I’m 66 I collect a (slightly low) state pension. My last job was as a physics teacher. I’m married to a physics teacher, too. It just goes to show that you can work hard all your life – and still get SNAFU’d. In a more numerate and technically-competent world – I’d have saved the world. (LOLs insanely)
“Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people.”
Of course it can be cheap-ish. It’s dearer than the States, I reckon, but the food’s better.
As for “blasting” people, a sort of English politeness works with scientists (because the words count) but not with emotional or religious non-scientists. Emotive issues must be raised immediately, in order to draw attention to physical evidence and reasoned logic.
“Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.”
If you are American or British you ARE messing up the planet. It’s about time you took responsibility for your situation.
I tried for a very long time, and left Britain with a whole bunch of physical ailments (stress, mostly, with a worsening hay-fever) which have all now departed, mercifully.
All the better to blast you with. 🙂

FreedomLover Reply:
First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me.
Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.
1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.
2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.
3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.

TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
Jazz and freedom thanks for taking this way out of line and o.t. You two are smarter than I but I know when to s.t.f.u. you might wanna think about that next time you bombard everyone with your b.s.

JazzRoc Says:
“First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me. Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.”
Stretching a tenous “belief system” here, thanks for being attentive. I may have been shot down but at least my “parachute” opened.

“1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.”
Chemtrails are MYTHOLOGICAL. You managed to convince yourself of their existence without any real evidence, so it is definitely possible to retrace your steps to find out where you took the wrong fork, find a bit of evidence you MISSED, and take a different path.
The ORIGIN of the trail is a case in point. There is a GAP in the trail before it forms. Metal ions would be VISIBLE IN THAT GAP. Metal ions are used in fireworks to COLOR the FLAMES. The engine exhaust is a FLAME. If it isn’t COLORED there aren’t any METAL IONS.
So it’s NOT the engines that are laying the trail – it comes from the body. Now you sometimes see body trails, from the galley/washbasins, and also from the Auxiliary Power Unit, but they are real small, and discontinuous.
So WHERE can these metal particles be coming from?

“2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.”
And they worry me more than anyone does – we agree. The only difference between them and Nazis is they don’t seem to have working extermination camps anywhere.
“3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.”
I don’t suffer from your over-riding fear, as I have shrugged off my religious programming. I accept that OBLIVION FOLLOWS DEATH. And oblivion is what you fear. Your religion provides you comfort against that fear, and it must be nice. But there is no evidence for life after death.
Your “soul” is the electrochemical CONFIGURATION of that piece of MEAT inside your skull which you call your brain.
Life on Earth began abiogenically, died, began, died, began (etc.) and finally survived to evolve 3.8 billion years ago, and every cell in every SINGLE, SEPARATE living being on Earth is taking part in further evolution RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS MORE IMPLACABLE AND GOD-LIKE than the SUM TOTAL of ALL that effort. All life is related to itself and forms a tree, the trunk being the original transbiote.
LIFE is the Universe’s way of knowing itself. BOTH ARE UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL.
ANY god is surplus to requirements. Especially the Judaic one.
Study the subject of EMERGENCE.

FreedomLover Reply:
You’re obviously stuck in your denial. I wish you “luck”. You’re going to need it. I hope your godless philosophy gives you comfort because that’s all you’ve got. I have nothing to fear, for your information, and I have nothing to gain if you believe or don’t except giving the devil a black eye and rescuing one more soul out of his deceptive plan of destruction.
You practice “faith” every day. When you sit down in a chair, when you turn on the water tap, when you turn the key in the ignition of your car, even when you breathe. That same faith is required to believe in God.
You’ve been presented with the truth. If you deny that God exists in accordance with your godless philosophy, then you don’t have to acknowledge Him or account for your sins – and we’ve ALL sinned at some point. I don’t have to worry about God’s judgment because I accepted what Jesus did on my behalf. I can sleep peacefully at night, and I do. It seems that your heart and your thinking is hardened probably beyond redemption. But I will pray for you, (already have) that God will open your eyes and that you will not pass out of this life in the same condition you are now. Since you don’t want God to “interfere” in your earthly life, there is only one place you can go for that to be permanently true.
You don’t have any proof that the THEORY of evolution is real. Where are the transitional forms? Just for a start. Where is your proof that the earth is “billions of years old”? Your theory is full of holes. Leaving this to mere chance would be like expecting a tornado to plow through a junkyard and pop – out comes a fully-functioning 747, let alone a wrist watch. The odds are so great against that, and even with all your so-called experience and learning, only a blind fool would believe such an outrageous scenario. Apparently there are a lot of them, including teachers, or they would not pass on such a farce to impressionable students. Intelligent design is the only way this earth and everything on it could have come about. Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals, and the crown of God’s creation, humanity. What are the odds that any ONE of these fully-functioning living beings could survive on their own. Oh, a fish decided that it wanted to walk on land, so it grew lungs and walked out of the water. No, it flopped out of the water – and died! Mutations do not long survive, and mutations NEVER evolve upward. They also do not reproduce (mules are a prime example). Why do living things die when they are poisoned by changes in atmosphere, water, etc.? The earth was designed in perfect balance so that life could be sustained – in EVERY way. The atmosphere, gravity, distance from the sun; need I go on? We were designed for God’s pleasure and to enjoy Him. I do. When I think about even colors, tastes, smells, all our senses – God did not have to give us anything except what is necessary for survival. There are blind fish in caves that do just fine. Why did God create (realizing you don’t believe in God) dozens of different varieties of fruit – when just one would have been enough? For all your book-learned knowledge, you still are blind.
It takes more “faith” to believe the theory of evolution which has no evidence in fact, than it does to believe in a loving Creator. Your belief system is sadly out of balance, my friend. All I’m doing is giving you something much deeper than your eyesight to consider. I’m finished talking to a brick wall.

JazzRoc Says:
“I’m finished talking to a brick wall.” is ironic considering you have not and will not discuss HOW a “chemtrail” gets made, yet you’re claiming them to be made.
The need to slavishly adhere to the first primitive writings ever made and reject the basis (science) of the world you live in, hasn’t got you killed – yet – but it stands to kill you in the future.
Back a few centuries you guys were hot to apply ropes, tongs and fire to guys like me, and you’ll notice the reverse doesn’t apply. Why is that, do you suppose?
The age of most things can be determined by the proportions of the isotopes of the elements uf which these things are made. There are many comparisons possible and they overlap.
“Science” time, like the Age of the Earth, differs from “creationist” time – by a factor of 800,000 times. That is NOT an insignificant error.
Evolution will never be PROVED with a SINGLE item of EVIDENCE. It is CONFIRMED by many parallel sets of evidence which agree with each other. In spite of the best efforts of “creationists”, NO DISPROOF HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Nor will it ever be.
When life started on Earth, there was NO OXYGEN in the atmosphere at all. “Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals” would have suffocated instantly. It took four billion years to produce a REALLY oxygen-rich atmosphere, and before that happened LAND ANIMALS lacked the powerful energy which could be obtained from combusting hydrogen with oxygen – they lacked the capability of STRENGTH.
As I’ve told you before, YOU are the one advocating FAITH. Science is a working method which does away with faith. In fact, it is NOT Science until it HAS. ANY argument using the word has no place whatsoever in Science. Unless it were the “Science” of faith.
But “faith” is, after all, “confidence”, and the first confidence-tricksters anywhere were priests, without a doubt.
I could pick through your tired old and mind-bogglingly-stupid points one-by-one, but this isn’t the place to do it. The thread title is “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” and I demolished this concept in my first post, entirely unchallenged. It’s all over.
Opposition to my logic vanished faster than common-sense inside a “creationist museum”.
Which is what I expected.
The fact that you think you know what’s going on I find very amusing. Also that you’re confident that chemtrails exist and you don’t feel the need for proof.
What I don’t find amusing is that you then deem yourself FREE to slander ANYONE who disagrees with you, that works in the aircraft industry or all the support industries, FREE to disperse blatant lies and frauds across the web, FREE to interfere with the flow of information in society which enables it to heal itself.
I think you should lose your voting power, your citizenship, and gain yourself a one-way ticket to farming kelp and sheep on the Falkland Isles. A hard dose of reality might straighten you out.

CONCLUSION

It is interesting that the thread appeared to come to a stop at this point.

Chemtrailers employ several techniques to ESCAPE discomfort zones in comments, blogs, and forums. The favorite (apart from direct ad hominem attacks) is a technique known as “astroturfing”. This is the cut-and-pasting of LARGE tracts which push short comments immediately over the page and render them difficult to rediscover.

You will notice that

1. They NEVER answer a question.

2. They change the subject,

3. They ignore statements which they dislike without challenge.

4. They work to destroy the logical buildup to a point.

5. They ignore challenges.

6. They make up new theories on the fly to add “body” to their “evidence”.

7. They ALWAYS respond to challenge with an adhominem attack. These “namings” allow them to think no further.

8. Just as well, for they HATE thinking in the first place.

9. When in disarray, they slander and lie.

JET SPRAY

(GLOBAL WARMING SOLUTION)

Stephen Salters Salt-Spray Trimaran

Stephen Salter's Salt-Spray Trimaran

JOINTS

“something is going on in our skies” – Passenger plane flights are at a MAXIMUM probably never to be exceeded in the history of the world, seeing that we have passed PEAK OIL.

You are seeing the normal consequences of civil aviation – burnt fuel in the stratosphere (300 million tons of it per year). You are seeing some of the 300 million tons of WATER.

“spraying seems to be higher during certain parts of the year. Is there anything to this?” – Stratospheric air is seasonally WETTER. In these wetter conditions CONTRAILS are deposited. The number of flights remains constant: you just don’t SEE them when they don’t leave trails.

arthritis

“suffering from chronic pain syndrome, Fibromyalgia like symptoms but other than some Arthritis and mild disc herniations” – How old are you? Sounds like normal wear and tear to me. Human beings normally experience trouble with their backs and joints over time.

“I wonder if this is caused by what is going on in the sky?” – Well, my joints certainly tell ME when the humidity is UP!

JET STREAMS

Jet streams are fast flowing, narrow air currents found in the atmospheres of some planets.   The main jet streams are located near the tropopause, the transition between the troposphere (where temperature decreases with height) and the stratosphere (where temperature increases with height).

The major jet streams on earth are westerly winds (flowing west to east).   Their paths typically have a meandering shape; jet streams may start, stop, split into two or more parts, combine into one stream, or flow in various directions including the opposite direction of most of the jet.

The strongest jet streams are the polar jets, at around 7–12 km (23,000–39,000 ft) above sea level, and the higher and somewhat weaker subtropical jets at around 10–16 km (33,000–52,000 ft).   The northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere each have both a polar jet and a subtropical jet.   The northern hemisphere polar jet is situated over the middle to northern latitudes of North America, Europe, and Asia, while the southern hemisphere polar jet mostly circles Antarctica all year round.

Jet streams are caused by a combination of atmospheric heating (by solar radiation and, on some planets other than earth, internal heat) and the planet’s rotation on its axis.  They form near boundaries of adjacent air masses with significant differences in temperature, such as the polar region and the warmer air to the south.

Meteorologists use the location of the jet streams as an aid in weather forecasting.  The main commercial relevance of the jet streams is in air travel, as flight time can be dramatically affected by either flying with or against a jet stream.  Clear-air turbulence, a potential hazard to aircraft, often is found in a jet stream’s vicinity.  One future benefit of jet streams could be to power airborne wind turbines.

Other jets also exist.  During the northern hemisphere summer, easterly jets can form in tropical regions, typically in a region where dry air encounters more humid air at high altitudes.  Low level jets also are typical of various regions such as the central United States.

JONTY

(A PILOT’S RESPONSE)

gliding

Good article and all true most of the visible trails are formed at the wing tips due to the quick change in pressure. Most people do not know how an aircraft stays up in the air. Most think that if the engines stop it would drop vertically. A large aircraft say 250 tons needs 250 tons less pressure on the upper surface of the wings to maintain level flight. So at the wing tips it spills from the under side to the top surface. It is this change in state that causes the visible trails. you can actually tell the coming weather, if the trails are short it is going to be dry the next couple of days. If they are long it means more humidity = unstable air = possible rain or thunder clouds.

The worlds largest source of noxious gases is man himself, no not really, but all mammals produce over 60% of the total CO2 emissions and aircraft less than 3%, so there!

Jonty (I spent a lot of time up there)

JusticePisstoff

Well, JP, thanks very much. I’ve grown very accustomed to unpleasantness over the last few months and it’s almost unique (3 others) and refreshing to have effusive praise for a change. But probably not a good idea to continue it…

I too have just been doing the ironing. About 2 hrs before a painful crick in the neck forced me to stop. Then a dip in the pool to cool down…

Perhaps we can agree on collaborative material later. I too have a prog-geek friend (Borland) who is a great buddy.

Good luck with your op. No-one’s any good if their back’s no good. I know of people who have made complete recovery from such an op, so don’t worry. It should change your life, although recuperation is soooo long that it won’t seem that way.

I’ve never even HEARD of Live-Video so do tell me more.

No – I haven’t FOUND JazzrocISaSPOOK. I can feel my pulse increase. I don’t think I WANT to find it. One channel got so desperate as to write to itself as JazzrocK and say they were OK etc.

JPI

Concerned Citizens against the Patriot Act:

franklin “They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin

http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html

JQA

commenting in ‘Barium Chemtrails’ in Contrailscience.com 22 Feb 2009.

Someone else with the keen nose for deceit that Jay Reynolds has:

Just in case someone on this blog might want to create your own conspiracy theory so you can have something new to talk about (this blog is really interesting, but this one has been beaten to death by both sides here), here is a step-by-step approach to creating your own custom conspiracy theory.

1. Pick your bad guy – government, big corporations etc. Ideally also pick on some shadowy, cult-like organization which can supposedly be connected with your adversary. (I know The Da Vinci Code is fictional but, hey, Opus Dei was a good pick!).
2. Pick a major current event to base your theory on – especially an unexpected, shocking, visual event that’s shared.
3. Develop your story – pick & choose your source info, construct a compelling story from it, and hey if something doesn’t fit your story, reinterpret it! Sow uncertainty, query the official evidence, and find new facts contradicting it. (Work on your postulates and corollaries)
4. Prepare your defense – be prepared to tweak your conspiracy theory around the edges should anyone point out any inconsistencies etc, but always hold to the core theory, emphasizing that it’s just a question of getting the evidence to prove its truth. And if others question your theory, well they must be in on the conspiracy too, mustn’t they?

After this is done, I would say that the best thing to do to make sure that you are able to sustain the theory in the public is to keep your personal dopamine level high. That will keep you attentive to daily and personal details that can support your theory, help you feel good about it, and do a lot to decrease your short term memory (letting you forget things not in your personal experience that don’t support your theory). It will also help if the first people you expose to the theory that are feeling somewhat alienated, disenfranchised and disaffected related to your bad guy, as these people will be the group that will turn out to be your base. It’s better if this group is somewhat monotheistic (not just about religion) or not interested in a lot of open dialog about a subject, but that is not entirely necessary, as long as they are fairly certain in their belief system. It doesn’t really matter what the belief system is, as long as they are fairly strong adherents to one system and are not too interested in open dialog. Try to encourage them to keep their dopamine levels high too; it will pay off in keeping your base faithful and supportive.

Right now is a time when we have perfect storm conditions when it comes to the creation of conspiracy theories, so I recommend that you make your picks and get started. The elements are currently in place that are necessary for the creation of a new and widely held conspiracy that has staying power:

1. Need to have a group of people, a significant portion of the population, that are feeling a bit alienated from the system. George Bush saw to putting this one in place.

2. A sub-group of these people need to have a tendency to distrust other people. This is where your monotheists come into play. There are many groups that could work for this purpose, one of which frequents this blog.

3. The best time to introduce a new conspiracy theory is when there is a feeling of insecurity when it comes to continued employment. I don’t think you could pick a better time in our lifetime (so far).

I hope that this is helpful in giving anyone interested some guidelines in setting up a useful conspiracy theory that will serve you well in parties you attend. Through the internet, a new theory can get moving pretty quickly, once you get the basics planned out and have a base you have identified and who are aware of your theory. If you can put some thought into the postulates supporting your theory, you’ll find that this will play a very big part in creating a successful conspiracy theory. Base it on some good postulates that can be objectively proved and demonstrated. It will make conversations and arguments you have concerning your theory fairly strong, and most people, not being familiar with scientific method, will be overwhelmed by the attention to detail and just simply give up. (On the other hand, if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t. If someone doesn’t know a lot or is not impressed with the details, it’s possible that outright lies will work as well.)

Good luck and have fun. I look forward to seeing if anything interesting comes out of this post. I am not the author of all this material, but have had an interest in studying conspiracy theories since my psychology classes in college in the 60’s, and because of the perfect storm conditions right now, I’m interested to see what might come up. Consider this a bit of cloud seeding…

zonspiracy

KAPENINA

Svetlana Kapenina is the most impressive pilot I have seen – ever.

Perhaps its because I prefer looking at beautiful women, but for me it isn’t all looks. It’s also ability, wit, intelligence, and competence. Well, this woman sure is competent. If I could travel in time, I would…  never mind.

Peter Besenyei? Yeah, he’s there…

Don’t forget to select full screen for maximum impact.

KNOW FOR A FACT

“difficult to believe/time/chemtrail videos/comments/denial of their existence” – Snap. I find it difficult to believe you believe such baseless crap.

“i watched/blue sky/outer banks turn/mass of cirrus like clouds/emit from planes” – Aviation is BIG BUSINESS. They are MULTINATIONALS. They burn a MILLION TONS OF KEROSINE EACH DAY. It makes a MILLION TONS OF ICE, as a FINE WHITE SMOKE, and puts it into the stratosphere, which is so cold and pre-saturated with water vapor that IT CANNOT ABSORB THAT ICE AS WATER VAPOR.

“stayed/ hours/ passing out of site/ followed/ same/ cloud/ upwind/ happens every day all year” – That’s BIG BUSINESS for you. It NEVER STOPS.

“looked/information you say is proof/no worry” – An ESSENTIAL PART of the process is that you UNDERSTAND the proof, which can only be done by your own effort of READING SCIENCE. If you don’t check out the science, then you won’t understand what you read, and you’ll start believing CT claptrap.

“you know for a fact/harmful” – Now, stand back and analyze YOUR statement. What do you mean? How CAN you assert that? What EVIDENCE do you have?

“govt/cover/up” – I don’t know how they can cover up passenger flights. Do you mean military flights? I thought the whole purpose of military activities were SECRET: if they were KNOWN, they wouldn’t be a DEFENSE.

fighter

“military brat/believe that you cognitive senses/failed” – Another WITLESS assertion. I can think and reason and spell and write better than you, and I guess I can calculate, compose, draw, engineer, drive, fly, invent tools and speak languages better than you. You don’t seem much good at anything…

bullshit

“believe the bullshit you say” – You have already LIED on this page. For many years, I have never had reason to lie. I don’t propose to do so for any reason whatsoever.

“If/actually have/family” – http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc shows all that’s interesting in my world.

“hard to believe/so ignorant/obvious truth” – YOU are the one who is the wrong side of the mirror. Get a life and stop believing. UNDERSTANDING Science DOES NOT REQUIRE BELIEF. You wouldn’t know the TRUTH if it hit you in the face.

“affects/kills us daily” – I can see you’re AFFECTED.

Let’s consider for a moment the concept of DEPOPULATION. (Assuming you believe we’re manipulated by EVIL REPTILES!) The STABILITY OF A SPECIES (in this case, Man) depends on the depth of his GENE POOL. An 85% CULL would NOT leave you 15%, as you might imagine, but is more likely to be an EXTINCTION EVENT, due to reduction in the gene bandwidth (look up species stability). The reptiles are presumably wanting servants to remain, so they aren’t going to do that, are they? Assuming there are NO reptiles, the same result obtains. So CULLING IS OUT.

The Global Warming/Dimming problem is cheaply adjustable by remote-controlled salt-spray trimarans which work out THOUSANDS OF TIMES CHEAPER THAN ALUMINUM/BARIUM AEROSOL SPRAYS. So Al/Ba SPRAYING IS OUT.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT LEFT? N O T H I N G

KONDRIX

Hi, you need to reread my letter which COMPLETELY ANSWERS POINT ONE. If you don’t get it then keep trying. It WILL dawn on you if you make the effort to think.

slime-mould-2

Slime Mould

2. “a sticky yellow surface on ground/strange web like thread” Yes. The accidents of Nature on a huge scale. There’s REALLY NO LINK to aircraft flying in the STRATOSPHERE. A conventional study of atmospheric science shows this. To PROVE a CHEMTRAIL you must SAMPLE IT DIRECTLY. If you DON’T, then YOU HAVE NO LINK.

3. “barium/aluminium/bacteria/magnesium” – SEE ABOVE. Clay is ALUMINUM SILICATE and is found in SOIL. So are the other listed materials. Every square inch of your body is COVERED with sometimes THOUSANDS and sometimes MILLIONS of bacteria.

4. “EPA continously negate the need to investigate/do not give any reasons” – They probably make the same set of statements as mine, and THAT gets misreported.

5. “big white planes without markings” – From FIVE to EIGHT MILES BENEATH “big white planes without markings” is ALL YOU CAN SEE. BLACK planes are INVISIBLE, and sometimes give rise to “mystery secret chemtrail generators” MYTHS. CONVINCING PROOF OF THIS I can offer you RIGHT NOW, if your sky is clear. It is the HALF MOON IN DAYLIGHT. YOU CANNOT SEE A TRACE OF ITS SHADOW SIDE. NOT A BIT. It’s due to “BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING”.

“tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – That old chestnut. Observed wherever the stratosphere is wet enough for persistent contrails and there are CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS and a PREVAILING STRATOSPHERIC FLOW. Imagine printing an X on a moving sheet of paper – you get a grid.

Use the old brain box. It’s finer than the best computers in the world, but only if you’re as devoted to LOGIC as Sherlock Holmes.

“The contrails can be bigger then most clouds” – You haven’t understood the physical nature of the stratosphere. If a layer of it is supersaturated, and a contrail is laid in it, it will ACCRETE more ice onto the ice crystals. It will continue to do this until the humidity falls to 100% in that layer. The crystals are gaining weight and falling out of this layer, of course. But by the time they have done so it is easily possible for the trail to have increased its weight by a factor of ONE TO TEN THOUSAND TIMES!

Supersaturated air only occurs when the air is sparklingly clean, so it is a further irony that such conditions are eagerly filmed by CTers as “proof”!

ice

Ice Crystal

“For 30 years of my life I have never seen “a natural sticky yellow surface covering the ground”. What could make a thing like that? If you know, tell me”Slime mould.

“There it is, it’s called probability. And probability is accepted by science, it all depends how high the probability is. Try to guess what is the probability that I will find a “sticky yellow surface”, for the first time in my life after a plane making strange (strange to many people) trail, flew over the sky” – Well, the trails weren’t unusual. Really. And slime mould exists. There probably will be such a coincidence.

“If you can get a sample of rain on that day, and compare it with samples of rain from other days, without trails and if your results show a difference, then you are very close to knowing (other than guessing)”. – You’ll pick up most “knowing” on dry, windy, and dusty days, won’t you?

“If we agree, that the “strange sticky”, and “white powder” are natural, then you are right, this proves nothing. But they are not natural to me. They look even less natural under a microscope” – Well obtain an independent qualified opinion.

“What would you do Tony if you were the head of number one environmental policing agency and citizens asked you about planes spraying chemicals in the air? I am sure you would investigate not just ignore” – Yes. But I might not call a public conference if there was inconclusiveness or negation.

“One year later, in 2000, EPA received a physical sample of highly unusual airborne,  fibrous material. (I am sending you attached photos of one such sample). Their reply “we are unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere”. How would you react Tony, when sent a fiber like this? Remember you are the head director of a national agency whose aim is to watch over the security of the environment. Wouldn’t you sent it to a lab, and then to another to verify? Check what planes might have flown there, talk to pilots, ask citizens, and so on? Of course, if that would have been a natural fiber, made by a spider for example you would have informed about its natural origin, wouldn’t you?” – Yes. But what would I say if I WERE unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere?

“A white plane from 5-8 miles looks different then half white half blue plane from 5-8 miles” – LOL. But that’s the ONLY thing you could say! I think you take my point.

“Tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS – “To prove whether these could be left by shuttle flights we need an opinion of an expert, pilot or a radar operator. I am neither, but these seems highly unlikely to me to be left by shuttles” – I am disappointed that you cannot accept my explanation. It is crystal clear in my mind, and I believe you don’t follow the logic. Imagine printing and reprinting an X on a sheet of paper. You produce a grid. It doesn’t matter which way you move the paper, as long as it isn’t directly along one of the crossing route paths. Aircraft are ten times faster than wind conditions so distortions are no more significant than those from the observers’ viewpoint.

What is even more unsettling is the IMPORTANCE attached to “GRIDS”.

“GRIDS” are meaningless, for the stratospheric contents are deposited hundreds, perhaps thousands of kilometres from where you see them. The stratosphere is hardly ever MOTIONLESS, and GRIDS are the PROOF of it, and NOT the consequence of some organized campaign. (Much as dense contrails are the PROOF of clean air, and not the reverse).

“Tell me what you think about an idea to sent a balloon into a trail like that and gathering a sample” – Hopeless. The balloon would have to be free, and you would have to find it. Radio? No. You can’t steer it, and as it crosses the tropopause the wind direction might easily change to an unwanted one (it’s one of the stratosphere’s characteristics). No, you MUST hire a fast small private jet.

You must also have synchronized video cameras trained on ALL the test equipment ALL of the time, with NO PART EVER LEAVING THE FRAME. The plane-mounted (temporarily) capture equipment MUST take the sample from the trail IN SIGHT of the emitting plane, and that plane has to be identifiable and identified (civil or military number) IN THE FRAME. With VERIFIED CLEAN EQUIPMENT, AN INDEPENDENT OBSERVER, AN INDEPENDENT CHEMIST AND BIOLOGIST, you can then GUARANTEE that you have INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE.

(But it will be of water, carbon dioxide, trace hydrocarbons, NOX, SOX, so I wouldn’t bother if I were you!). Testing of aircraft exhaust products been carried out by various interested parties over the last fifty-five years.

boeing-boeingKSLA

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single/6017800.html

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails

THERE’S NO NEED FOR FURTHER COMMENT!

LAUGHTER

And as for “GeoEngineering” – don’t make me laugh!

As a proportion of the AREA of the EARTH the United States is INSIGNIFICANT, at under 2%.

As a proportion of POLLUTION OF THE EARTH, Man takes THIRD PLACE, behind burning forests, rotting tundra, farting animals, and ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ACTIVE VOLCANOES.

geoengineering-volcano-630

ER, AND TEN THOUSAND UNDERSEA ONES….

smoker

LESS THAN

When the air is less than fully saturated (mostly) the contrails are slowly reabsorbed. When the air is warm and quite dry (typically like a warm summer’s day low down in the troposphere) you cannot see contrails at all – the steam is dissolved into the air before it gets to form the tiny ice crystals that the “vapor” clouds are made of.
Contrails are also formed inside the wing-tip vortices of tightly-banking fighter planes, and you can frequently see landing aircraft trailing long ribbons of vortices from the outside tips of their flaps on wet days. These are identical to the clear approach cone of a descending tornado: the high vacuum rapidly cools the water vapor in the air, causing it to condense into very fine droplets.

LETTER TO 4

Hi 4,

There are possibly more explanations than the one I give now, so it is important for you to think around the problem and discover others.

The stratosphere is made of transparent ribbon-like layers, typically like large slow-moving rivers. They are flowing OVER the troposphere, which is the Earth’s boundary layer and is around five miles deep.

In the troposphere (which is warmed from below by the ground) you have invisible thermals which rise about a mile before they form CUMULUS clouds. As these rise and cool by ADIABATIC EXPANSION, they condense their water vapor into first water, then ice. Because they are dumping water and gaining buoyancy, their rise is like a slow explosion, and they PUSH UP against the stratosphere, RAISING IT, sometimes by a thousand feet or so.

The transparent stratospheric layers don’t “mind” being lifted, and for a while compensate for their “surprise cooling” by becoming MORE HUMID. On occasion you can see STRATUS forming ABOVE a CUMULONIMBUS by stratospheric displacement. This happens WHEN the humidity is forced ABOVE 100% – if there’s something for the water vapor droplets to nucleate upon. Otherwise the layers go to a SUPERSATURATED condition – and remain transparent.

cumulonimbus1

So along comes a plane and contrail. (A twin jet passenger plane leaves TWO trails from its engines, but they rapidly become ONE as they are gathered up in the plane’s MASSIVE WAVE VORTEX). That vortex is like a giant SMOKE RING pulled out along the plane’s course. Another way of looking at it is as TWO rotating “cylinders” geared together by friction. There’s a LOT of energy there: it corresponds to the main part of the DRAG that the engines are working to overcome for straight and level flight. Light aircraft have been brought down by the wave vortex of a jumbo jet FIVE MILES away.

wave-vortex

THAT is the MIXING ENERGY that causes the layer to fill with cloud. If the layer is SUPERSATURATED, even MORE ice condenses upon it (it can increase its weight A THOUSAND-FOLD OR EVEN MORE) and parts of it will FALL, which is why you sometimes see PENDULES and VIRGA as well.

These are all NATURAL PHYSICAL PROCESSES. They are random and fascinating, just as are waves breaking on a sea shore. But they ARE natural…

PS – A great deal of insight may be obtained by scouring YT for Atom-bomb explosions. Here you’ll see pressure waves, rapidly-forming cirrus and many other temporary effects as a huge point source of high energy is released and the cloud punches its way through the troposphere, BEYOND the stratosphere, into the ionosphere.

bravo

(THEY ARE) LEGION

A New Wave Conspiracy

It’s a brave new world…. with YouTube COMMENTS!

entropyspigot
the powers that be (world leaders) are shape shifting reptilians who want to kill us all slowly. they practice human sacrifice and start all the worlds wars. they also want to keep the fish from seeing planet x which is heading towards earth and will wipe out most of us on or before december 2012! 11 onoes!

sk8b1
Your joking right? You cant possibly be this stupid.

Guyya93
its called the US govt….. not like police and all that good stuff but all these secret organizations that do stuff while the media distracts you with bullcrap like the awful “swine flu” which was no different than the regular flu just in a different time or year 😛

KunaiKnight
why would they just spray chemicals into the water, thats just stupid

FATCACAK
its called depopulation.. ask the WWF.. look up ‘eugenics’ watch ‘aerosol crimes’

sk8b1
Dont listen to the retards and morons here, you are right to not believe this complete BS.

KunaiKnight
2:09 FOOT

emisarre
209 FOOT 209 FOOT 209 FOOT

martiniusi1
Very funny, but chemtrails are real. hold in mind, that contrails need temperatures below -40degreee Celsius and know that the temperature falls 6.5 degree Celsius with every kilometer high – and now look up on a hot summerday, is the plain with its long trail far away enough?

Shilltastic
WRONG! I guess you think that as you look at the sky, the layering is all uniform. You don’t understand that there are pockets of warm and cold air floating through the layers. This explains the start/stop trails also. But go ahead, PRETEND that you understand your own atmosphere, just as all chemtards do, Please educate yourself on the facts. “Chemtrails” are a myth that stupid people fall for.

martiniusi1
pockets of warm and cold air? Entropy! – in heaven we may believe all …? What`s about the fact, that long white, persistent trails are connected to political systems?

Shilltastic
Keep telling yourself that! I laugh at you paranoid morons. You are living in fear of lines of frozen water vapor while connecting them (for no reason) to “political systems”. It doesn’t get any more pathetic than that. Don’t worry, I’m not going to try to talk you out of your beliefs. I like the comedy.

martiniusi1
search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one. Are the people in these countries immune to conspiracy theories?

Shilltastic
“search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one”. Because they aren’t STUPID. Let’s face the reality here. Neither one of us has a snowballs chance in hell of convincing the other that we are right. I’m cool with that! If you want to believe in bullshit about “chemicals” in these trails, (regardless of a COMPLETE lack of evidence) GO FOR IT! But don’t waste your time trying to convince me. I will NEVER believe in “chemtrails”. I understand the scientific explanation too well to be suckered into believing such bullshit.

LinxMasterMike
Regardless of whether or not you are correct, you are true to your name, as you certainly are a shill.

Shilltastic
Liar.

sk8b1
I think your going for PLANE not plain, guess that’s shows the intelligence of the people that believe this shit. You honestly think that in every case, every kilometer high you go that the temp changes by exactly 6.5 degrees? You are a moron.

martiniusi1
Thank you to correct my bad english – you understand what i mean. The 6.5 degrees per kilometer you may google. Just type in: “temperature flight high” or so. Compare several results.

PogoPoint55
First the air, now our water. What’s next, chemtrails on our land!

baracine
Well, I’m convinced. You had me at “shocking”.

kl0x
Really? This is so stupid… And if they were, what would be the purpose?

PogoPoint55
That’s exactly what people say about chemtrails. Geez, you wouldn’t recognize a parody if it took a crap on your head.

Saechem
control of water sources

bmxrider4ever
To kill you.

thetruthergirls
lol. I like it.

sungwei9
What about the bali pattern?

Legionoftruthers
This is true. google mkultra. The aluminium nanofibres allow Haarp to control individual sheeple like puppets. The nanotechnology is programmed to crawl inside the brain. That’s why alzheimers folk have aluminium plaques in their brain. They were the first test subjects of the technology. That’s what the psychotronic weapons mentioned in kucinich bill allow.. remote mind control of human beings. Now they are even spreading it into our water supply and fish we eat. Fish are called brain food!!!!

ac27272727
lol nice vid

av8er152
haha, this is completely ridiculous. Is this a joke?

bikersrule07
these chemtrails are out of order, and now there doing this to our water.. this is a clear sighn of the NWO and how there making us drink there chems, swim in there chems, fact the NWO have reserves of water in the south and north poles.. FACT chem trails are real. This is also a clear sighn that NWO are trying to get our water ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. FACT- they been spraying the skys for a long time to get us ready so the reptilian’s can breath in our atmosphear, drink our water.. the proof is in the pyramid’s.. do a search in google about retilians and the pyamids also pyamids being in water.. FACT the NWO are close to there goal. look at 1:30 to 1:34 in this documentry , you can see where they are pumping the chems from hidden under ground pumping stations, proberly run by the NWO and AL Gore .. FACT- Al Gore is for global warming because he gets paid big time by the NWO whitch he works for, FACT- the new world order are getting (our) planet ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. and this means warming the planet up, so the reptilians will be comfortable.

Legionoftruthers
Now they are finding lots of mercury in fish like tuna and dolphin and sword that we swallow. Not just aluminum. Guess what mecury is.. A metal, and it is even used in switches and conducts electricity. That means the seaspraying could be spreading mercury to get in our food and brains. If there is electrical switch metal in our brain they could control it and switch things off and on with radio without us knowing anything

garbas
FACT : You have to wear aluminium foil helmets and your brain will survive.

bikersrule07
i have just put in an aluminium foil liner in my motorcycle helmet will that work garbas?

quazarific
shoot chem trail planes on sight!!!

mad

Letter

leave a comment »

PAGE CONTENTS

LETTER – LETTIS PREY – LIES, DAMNED LIES – LIES II – LINK – LINKUE – LIZ – LOOKING AT WATER – LUDOSOPHIST – LYNN – MARC 1 – MARC 2 – MARIUS – MEAT

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

LETTER 

alex

 Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.

I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I’m entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.

richard

Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn’t been written by the CIA or FBI.

Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.

At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed “experts” because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.

When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.

As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.

Read my blog… 

LETTIS PREY

JEFFLETTIS“retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you’ll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail” – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU’RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!

bonkers21 LIES, DAMNED LIES,

 AND ‘COUNTERKNOWLEDGE’

Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.

Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History

George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
“Creation science” disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these “secrets”? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.

This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.

We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.

Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.

Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.

I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his “doubts” about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: “Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn’t generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that.” The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. “You’re right,” they said. “It did seem strange…”

Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.

The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.

The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. “Expert testimony” is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.

Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy’s government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: “I think it is possible.”

Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed “without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services”. Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to “the myth of the Jews’ massacre”.

In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: “The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics.”

We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other’s fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other’s eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.

In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a “man-made Pentagon genocide”, that Pope Paul VI “was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978”, that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.

Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.

But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.

The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.

Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and “superfoods” that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.

Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.

The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.

But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.

These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.

Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that “the British Government was involved in some way” with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.

The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.

‘Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History’ by Damian Thompson 

bonkers
bonkers

LIES

“Please quote any “lie” I have mentioned to you” OK, WILL DO

“The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees” – FALSE
“Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions” – FALSE
“you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails” – LIE
“no credentials” – LIE
“are a government debunker” – LIE
“unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue” – LIE
“your spam postings” – LIE
“over and over you continue to waste space” – LIE
“you offer no information” – LIE
“Post after post you avoid this”
– LIE
“with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect” – LIE
“You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish” – LIE
“You must dance because you sure dance around the issue” – LIE
“your time wasting typing” – LIE
“all you discuss is how a cloud forms” – LIE
“doesn’t have the guts to do the real science” – LIE
“you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn’t” – LIE
“no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails” – LIE
“so called experience” – LIE
“Useless posting and disinformation” – LIE
“of a so called engineer” – LIE
“I have made no claim of any lethal status” – IMPLICIT LIE
“you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts” – LIE
“sham” – LIElies

That’s TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer. 

LINK

there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work. 

LINKUE (A QUOTE)

This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.

It’s analogous…

Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.

constitution

Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban. 

LIZ

email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don’t relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?

I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven’t responded.

Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for “chemtrails”, it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.

You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.

Aerosol “sprays” may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only “aerosol sprays” that exist.

I am glad that you think that “almost all” of my “posts on the subject are true”. Which posts do you think are NOT?

It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.

Get real. I’m living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn’t strike the individual as hard as it does in the “temperate zone”, and I just get by.

The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.

Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date. 

LOOKING AT WATER

You’re looking at WATER…

Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.

1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable. 

LUDOSOPHIST

“The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.

You’ll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly.”

Bless him… he toned his “probability” down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :

LYNN

Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth’s atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That’s ALL! 

MARC 1

Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)

Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don’t know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).

As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN’T looking: it’s called the “observer effect”. The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.

Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.

The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth’s surface.

So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.

In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That’s 6% of the whole.

Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT. 

MARC 2

Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.

Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that’s all.

Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…

I have two friends with interesting stories…

The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn’t once…

The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council’s claims otherwise. He HASN’T been bothered by authorities: he’s kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…

Try this Vaughan-Williams’ composition – he’s a Welshman like me.

We are a more Latin race than you Saxons… 

MARIUS

“I’ve heard you’ve gotten acquainted with JP” – much to my surprise, yes

“I’m Marius” – and I’m Tony

“Nice to meet you” – hmm. We’re not “meeting”. Meeting would be better…

“He told me you were well worth the talk” – How does he know?

“In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots” – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.

“I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories” – me too. JFK is reason enough.

“I’m having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies” – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I’d never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.

bard

The Bard of Ely - he's green but he ain't mean...

Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I’d JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…

“I’ve barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?” NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I’ve heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.

“Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? “let’s jump on the conspiracy wave”-thing?” – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don’t do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn’t an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.

“Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?” – It’s 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)

“I’m from Norway, myself. It’s nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million” – half that here

“Have a nice day!” – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.

MEAT

(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author’s name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he’s more flattered than offended. )

THEY’RE MADE OUT OF MEAT by Terry Bisson

“They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

Meat. They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So … what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal!  Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”

“Both.”

“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …”

Director: Stephen O’Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds

pc0100371
westward view just before sunset at Las Americas

Robert

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PAGE CONTENTS 

ROBERT – ROCKETAGENCY – RUSHFAN’S MASSIVE FRAUD – SAME POSTS – SCALAR (“WEAPONS”) – SCALE – SCATTERING

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

ROBERT 

toronto

lol, well you’re nuts but at least you concede that there’s something up there that shouldn’t be. we get lots of these over Toronto as well. 100+ chemicals including berium…very poisonous. ,,.also weather maniuplation.”
“you concede” – WATER. Not exactly harmful.
“shouldn’t be” – SHOULD BE, if you wish to travel.
“we get lots as well” – You have a LARGE AIRPORT.
“100+ chemicals” – have been picked up at GROUND LEVEL. The WORLD is a DUSTY place, and you have COUNTLESS MILLIONS of BACTERIA ALL OVER YOU.
“berium” – BARIUM – “very poisonous” – so is CALCIUM (OXIDE) if you swallow it. Yet your BONES and TEETH are made of it.
“weather manipulation” – The induction of rainfall needs SILVER iodide crystals. The STATES have FLOGGED their FAMILY SILVER.
Weather has NEVER been manipulated.
And so your reply becomes MEANINGLESS DRIVEL. 

ROCKETAGENCY 

rocket-trail

Actually, I believe your data. It contained a few missing pieces of info I had been hoping someone could articulate for a while now.
The most profound fallacies I’ve noticed are that:
1) If you can see a trail, it MUST be dangerous.
2) If you can’t see a trail, no danger exists.
Ha. Not so very funny.
I hope you read up more on DILUTION FACTORS. In general, apart from molecules of  plutonium or other radioactive element isotopes, EVERYTHING ELSE sprayed from a height of seven miles would land the day after tomorrow, at least two hundred miles away, and DILUTED BEYOND ANY DANGER – unless you believe in that branch of alternative medicine, er, whatsitsname… homeopathic…
And I hope you watched George Carlin too…
I agree with him: you’re all pussies that have NO IDEA of the dangers that existed all around you throughout existence – before you were born – creeping up on you as you’re standing outside (looking up!) – and raining down on the pussies that will still be in existence after you’re dead.
You don’t want to be a pussy? Then LEARN about Evolution, LEARN about your body’s biochemistry, Learn about pathogens and poisons, LEARN about the atmosphere, LEARN about the REAL dangers of EM radiation from CELLPHONES and city centres, LEARN about the Federal Reserve Bank, LEARN how to be self-sufficient, LEARN how to build an autonomous house, LEARN about PERMACULTURE and Ecology.
Don’t waste your time with Chemtrailer-trash bunkum… 

RUSHFAN’S MASSIVE FRAUD

Myself
Look up the Boeing 777 Long Range prototype in Airliners dot net. You’ll find this picture without the photoshopping.
The barrels are for varying the plane’s centre of gravity – a nifty thing to do when you’re prototype-testing.
Sciechimiche are a crowd of fraudsters and YOU are the dupe.
“Chemtrails” are a form of mind-terrorism practised by people who don’t understand anything to do with science and engineering.
The damage they do is worse than Chicken Little.
You are a throwback.

Rushfan
There are plenty of US patents related to many of the topics brought to light by those you call ‘fraudsters’. I have spent many hours reviewing numerous aerosol methods and devices.
One thing that is fact, is the baldfaced lies our government will tell the public to justify any agenda. So given that lies can come from both sides, truth usually falls somewhere in the middle and usually in plain sight. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
After absolutely stumping my Earth Science professor one day a few years ago (who happens to be a career military weatherman), I’ll keep on watching.
What’s most interesting is why anyone would bother wasting time on people who are supposedly discussing something that is not accurate. One would think there are better things to do with your time than spending it following such dialogue.

Myself
There are plenty of patents about everything.
I am an anarchist with a natural distaste of governments.
“Truth” only falls at the centre by default in such debates – and, as such, ISN’T truth.
There’s no harm in “keeping on watching” only if you keep your scientific understanding up to snuff.
You have failed to do so – and so you do harm. Without sufficient understanding you will fail to interpret events accurately, and then proceed inexorably to jump to wrong conclusions.
Reminding harmful members of our society of the harm they are committing seems quite a reasonable thing to do to me. It’s not the only thing I do with my time.

Rushfan
To an extent, you seem to have some sense of concern. Since we as a public have been lied to on numerous occasions, putting faith into the corrupt is not always wise. Those entrusted to keep the faith are many times part of the problem.
In an ideal scenario, one would prefer to be able to not have to be concerned. Does one sit back and do nothing or do something? Regardless of 100% accuracy or ability to provide certain proof, the act of, in and of itself, generating any awareness at all is to everyone’s benefit.
I know that when presented with conditions he could not explain, my “career military weatherman” professor was stumped and would not comment further. One problem with “Science” is that some in Science are just as corrupt. Controversy is just as plentiful and placing faith is getting more and more difficult. I would surely hope that nothing is going on to our atmosphere and that there would be nothing to be concerned about.
One thing is also certain, all actions are not being conducted for your and my best interests. To think that whatever is going on is on the up and up all the time is not a good approach…

Myself
The same could be said of you, re concern. You may be not completely cynical yourself.
The “visual evidence” you so much believe in has led you astray.
Were it not for science would you KNOW that the Sun does NOT go round the Earth? Be honest – you wouldn’t. You would INTERPRET what you see as the Sun (a SMALLER body) passing over the sky to set on the opposite compass axis.
In a similar manner you INTERPRET the occasional trail which expands HUGELY as a HUMAN act, when it is in fact a NATURAL occurrence.
When passing through cold (-40) humid (more than100% saturated) stratospheric air (a completely different STABLE and LAYERED section of Earth’s atmosphere) the trail ice can SEED the NUCLEATION of the excess water in the layer by a factor of up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES.
It is therefore not impossible for a trans-continental jumbo flight to create a trail containing EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS of ICE.
You will appreciate that this trail WILL cover the sky with a stripe of suspended ice crystals which may be up to 10 kilometres wide by 2 kilometres deep. With stratospheric interlayer SHEAR this may get WIDER STILL.
There are hundreds of atmospheric research papers to choose from, but I’ll quote you only one:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
READ IT. This research was done using the finest minds and scientific techniques.
With this fact NOTHING REMAINS OF YOUR THEORY. Without the visual misperception you have made, you are left merely with hatred of the extant power structure – which is my position also.
If you go down the route that such reports are mere constructs of the PTB, then you have to assume that ALL information has been back-edited, and that would have to include ALL relevant books in ALL libraries (and the ones on my shelf).
Sorry, me laddie, but that won’t wash…
Seeing as we SHARE a dislike of “authority” (I have been an anarchist since before you were born) I will now tell you that MISINFORMATION (which is what you seem to wish to disseminate) is NO SERVICE AT ALL to the rest of us. We’re trying to WIN a battle that you’re trying to LOSE.
Far from myself being a “USEFUL IDIOT”, it is YOURSELF that is a USELESS one…

Rushfan
Once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered, may have been implemented and may even be in some form of advanced stages.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening. Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda. I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.

Myself
once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered” – You, I, and most everyone else has considered it. Yet few of us are sufficiently mathematically-inclined and equipped with hard facts about the Earth to do this. Those that do know that the Earth’s a large place and Man’s technological activities aren’t detectable within its atmosphere.
may have been implemented and ” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
may even be in some form of advanced stages.” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.” – Even while agreeing with you that these events did take place, that doesn’t allow me to suppose that things aren’t different today. They are different today.
Many intervening events have taken place and everyone these days is web-aware. There was no web then.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening.” – That would be true if it were true. However I didn’t present you with “statistics”. I presented you with EVIDENCE proving the NON-EXISTENCE of CHEMTRAILS.
Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.” – I provided EVIDENCE. You misinterpretation of that is your problem.
There ARE two worthwhile areas of geo-engineering, one involving salt-spray trimarans and the other fertilising the mid-ocean sea surfaces.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda.” – It’s a pity you seem to want to join in with this. If they can do it, you can do it, is that it?
I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.” – Then you are apparently in your ideal state.

Rushfan
Once again, I would have enjoyed something that would remove any doubt about such possibilities. Nothing mentioned lays any basis for having any belief that such operations are not going on or have been going on. There is no basis to have faith in those that would or would not even be involved.It would be interesting as to why you can claim that such things are not possible unless you knew for certain that every possible source was in fact not doing these things. While your information base may be great, I fail to see anything that would cause support.
On another note, what is your take on the article published in the Open Chemical and Physics Journal of April 2009 regarding dust samples. I would surely like to see that their findings are inaccurate but no-one has countered with any significant results to the contrary
.

Myself
The trails witnessed which persist when a jet plane flies through a supersaturated stratosphere ( 17% of Earth’s stratosphere is in this condition) are composed of ICE – as I have already told you.
There are 87,000 daily overflights of the US. Only the variability of the persistent jet streams determines where supersaturated conditions exist in the seven stratospheric circulatory cell systems which the Earth possesses.
You might suppose that nearly a million tons of aviation kerosine combusted to add just over a million tons of water vapor/ice might alter the stratosphere significantly locally, but measurements have shown less than a percentage change whenever they have been measured. This may cause hazy conditions – but they are local and temporary. And HARMLESS. Persistent trail ice is PURER THAN TAPWATER!
Metals and other materials cannot be passed through jet engines without being visible in the trail gap.They AREN’T, so aircraft jet engines are NOT the route by which you can claim “spraying” to be taking place.
If you knew ANY science, you would know that passing finely-divided metals through a flame is a means of determining which element they are – for each element has a different flame color. It’s known as “Flame Testing”. Every colored firework you have ever seen should remind you of this. BARIUM is used to color fireworks GREEN.
Metals which undergo VIOLENT HIGH SPEED COLLISION reach PLASMATIC temperatures. They FLASH!
If you collide iron and aluminum at high speeds (half a million tons falling from a thousand feet) the violence vaporizes some the metal into a hot spray of microspherules – just like thermite combustion.
All the materials necessary were there in the WTC – iron from the structure, aluminum from the plane, sulfur from the gypsum wall-boarding.
I draw your attention to this vid of a Phantom colliding with a very solid concrete block. You’ll see the plasmatic flash, and the fine dust (microspherical) which flies out radially from the point of contact. This dust (made from a dural/titanium airframe and two engines with very large, hard, heat-resistent alloy-steel shafts about ten feet long!) won’t contain much sulfur, but that’s the only difference.

Now get off your ass and stop buying things so easily. Science is a process which checks itself all the time, and if a dozen scientists say one thing, with a single dissenter, then the chances REALLY ARE that the twelve are correct, and the dissenter isn’t. If you want to be sure, then LEARN SOME SCIENCE.
The beauty of everything I’m telling you is that if you CHECK FOR YOURSELF in a book in some library I have never seen, or in a paper available on the internet via your own search process, you CAN quite independently confirm what I write here.
The fact that the US is run by a criminal syndicate in no way alters the physics of gas turbines in the atmosphere or high-energy collisions.
Get logical.

Well, he stopped responding. He answered none of my questions, followed none of my links.

These guys are so paranoid and deluded that they avoid Science in their desperate attempts to remain “uncontaminated” by the “powers-that-be”.

YouTube is supremely unconcerned with matters of truth, and many of the people I know who, like me, find this delusional and divisive behavior to be appalling, have been banned from it when they overstep the mark (by posting too often, or by being complained of to YT). It also puts a 500-character limit on comments and has some ingenious software which prevents anyone from posting links, which makes it very difficult to challenge these deceitful videos, while making it very easy to produce them.

RECENT YOUTUBE COMMENTS ON

“CHEMTRAILS FROM THE INSIDE”

doobeedoo22
The interior photos show a pre-production aircraft, fitted with instrumentation for use during a flight testing programme.  The liquid containers that you see, fixed to the floor in the cabin, can be filled with water to simulate the weight of seats, passengers, cargo and luggage.  New aircraft must be tested at their all-up weight, but you don’t undertake trials of a new design with hundreds of people on board!   No chemtrails here.   Fnord.
 
kashpd
Fnord… And “Hail Eris !”

dustinwrye
That does not say Hazard Inside.  It says HAZMAT.   It means hazardous materials.  So you are partially right.   Inside the striped tape is a sign in sheet used to show who checked on or secured the material last.
Standard government stuff here.  It could be anything.  You are only speculating on the “spraying”, you can’t really tell what it is saying.
Same with the “Lock Care”.  If it had anything to do with safety it would be in the same place on every barrel.  The government standardizes everything.
 
eyeOOsee
Dustin I cannot believe what you wrote!  I have been photographing these goddamned billows of crap being srayed over my town for 10 fucking years and you want to argue over hazmat vs hazard!!??  Are you insane!!??  Look at the skies for god sake.  This is world wide.  Not EVERYTHING is necessarily going to be the way you expect it to be when we have all seen more than one type of plane spraying.  It is not JUST THE US GOVERNMENT here!  Watch “Aerosol Crimes” on google video.  What is really important?
 
dustinwrye
Fine, don’t believe what I wrote.  I said it was HAZMAT, that’s the same as Hazard in a way.  Don’t be stupid, the government is not “spraying” you with anything. Don’t believe everything you see on YouTube.  And if they are, it isn’t working.  I still know they are corrupt and after nothing but power.  Life expectancy is going up, so it must not be that bad for ya.  If it is something that kills certain people…  fine, the world population is getting out of hand.  Just hope I’m not the target.

 
eyeOOsee
Dustin, re-read what I wrote.  These have been falling on the ground x10yrs, I have been photographing longer than I have had a computer.  Life expectancy is goin down..how many 90 yr. olds do you know?  When I was in MY 20’s every family had 3 to 4.  Seriously take a look at “Aerosol Crimes” on google video by Clifford Carnicom.  It’s about 1hr.45min.  Great documentary, and a decade of material, incl. updates.  And “you” “are” the target. We all breathe the same air.  Have you seen what’s in these?
 
dustinwrye
Making it to 90 years old has never been the norm….NEVER.  The life expectancy is in the 60s, it continues to go up too.  As for families having less kids now, well I see that you are 50 some years old.  Some would say part of the baby boomer generation.  Yes, parents had more kids back then.  People built their lives around hard work and producing goods.  No longer is that the case, we are a consuming nation now, more kids are not needed to help around the house anymore.

eyeOOsee
Dustin, check your mail for response.

farmersc3500
The orginal photo dated May 25, 2005 can be found by googling airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton
Go to the first hit on google, it should be from airliners net and you can click and expand or save image as.  And see every thing you see on this video close up. Including the sign, barrels windows and computers.  You can also click on the “cn 3378/504” so you can find 80 more photos of the same airplane including photos of both the inside and outside for ID purposes.  Case Closed.

laurasmales
I’ve just looked it up on google, saved the image and the writing doesn’t seem to be on there anymore?

farmersc350
Laurasmales, you are correct, the original photo dated May 25, 2005 does not have the writing “Sprayer” “Hazard inside” and “Lock care” on it.  Which just goes to show that the video maker (tankerenemy) photoshopped the picture in order to deceive people into believing in chemtrails.  It is obvious that the maker of this video is knowingly and willing putting out disinformation in order to promote chemtrail beliefs.  For a video of the same plane including the tanks, pilots and engineers just google 777-200LR Worldliner videos.  Go to the first hit play the video “777-200LR prepares for first flight”.  In short, people like tankerenemy could not promote his false chemtrail beliefs without misinformation/disinformation. His photo shopped picture is a fine example of how far he will go to mislead people.

laurasmales
If it is photoshopped then they aren’t helping to spread the word about chemtrails, instead they’re inviting criticism.

Now that’s interesting. Although it’s obviously a fraud, this only “invites criticism”!

iggy6
It doesn’t matter how much proof you show, there are govt. employees whose job it is to seek out all of these videos and articles and use any tactic to discredit the facts.  Contrails form at 29,000 feet, yet in desert areas aerosols have been sprayed at less than 10,000 feet and lingered for hours. No matter what you say they will deny.  So that is why I find it funny.  They get all bent when someone uses their same tactics back at them.

KamarHarris
Ya because google can be trusted if the government was corrupt in that way.

rodman332
Chemtrails are fucking real!

farmersc3500
Rodman, even tankerenemy knows this is not at “chemplane”, if he really thought it was a “chemplane” then he would not have photoshop the photos in this video.  To see the orginal photo that predates tankerenemys photoshop version just google airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton.  Note the original photo does not have the words “sprayer” “hazard inside” “lock care” because that was added by tankerenemy after he copied the photo off airliners net.  What is real is that IS a photo of the ballast tanks that are used to change the CG (weight and balance) in the certification test for the Boeing 777-240LR serial number 33781/504. And that same airplane is now used in passenger service for PIA.   Also what is real, is tankerenemy is knowingly and willingly putting out disinformation in the form of this photoshopped photo.

glennwa11
Farmersc, that is the typical chemtrail activist tactic.  Deceive and lie.  Anything for ratings and views.

westwatford
Yeah, they were connected up through tubes which must spray out the back.  What ever it is, the goverment are doing something.

unusmultorumm
They are connected with tubes so they can flow the water from the back to the front of the aircraft.  They do this to determine the center of gravity limitations of this aircraft.

1enzeder
Could be part of the global eugenics program, or maybe its just liquid plant fertilizer the CIA are spraying on their opium crops.

a123a456a123a456a
Shut up you poisoned troll, the water and air is contaminating and mutating people into troll-like creatures , many people all over the country have gotten their hepa filtration systems tested, that’s how we know, and as for the military planes i have seen them with telescopes aliminum barrium trails, again buy an IQ air health pro, and forget about these military scumbags trying to kill you, at least while in your home.

GLOBALRAPTUREdotcom
My good friend Dr. Bender said another possibility is that after 2012 we will go through the galactic plane as it is called in science and our magnetic field will be affected.  Chemtrails can be filling us with a false metallic base so when there is less of a magnetic field they can throw on Haarp or something of the like and keep us under control, we know now that you can control a person by remote radio waves this is one possibility you can by a heavy metal detox to take once a month.
Holyshit can’t understand a word he said but i get it….
Chemtrails are a weather manipulation operation by the NEW WORLD ORDER using regular military people to carry out chemical spraying on civilian populations using low range bioweapons, also as a means to move moisture collect it and redistribute it as a weapon in other remote areas.  They tell the soldiers they are helping thwart global warming.   Soldiers do not question orders and this is a major flaw in military people, besides their willingness to receive bioweapons and they are told they are vac.

icke11234
Chemtrails – genocide!   Join petition on an investigation of chemtrails: thepetitionsite.com/7/investigate-persistent-contrails-aka-chemtrails

dimviesel
The chemicals (metals) in chemtrails work together with the haarp, once these chemicals are ingested for years it is much easier to control people’s thoughts, courage, fight or flight response and proper judgement.  Just look at how crazy ppl are acting these days?  There have always been lunatics in public but the types of acts of todays looney tunes are unprecidented and unusual.

carlosmante
Filios Puttana.

yohrdzayr
Simply scary!  Thanks for posting.

URAterrorist
Chemtrails Are: Persistent lines of chemical-infused aerosol spray dispersals from typically unmarked planes which are now seen in the sky all over the world. Unlike normal jet contrails formed from water vapor, chemtrails spread to form a thick blanket of cloud cover, held together by polymer fibers until they reach the ground, contaminating crops, water supplies and humans with radioactive soft metals and dessicated red blood cells which contain active human pathogens.

Ah. So “URAterrorist” is a sock-puppet of SERIOUS BULL, as the above is a word-for-word cut-and-paste of his!

KarakulBrigand
Chemtrails don’t exist? Watch this vid.  Experimental Biological Chemical Spraying(chemtrails?)

RyanKearns1985
Does anyone know how a cloud works?  It is condensed moisture.  As a jet flies, it produces exhaust.  Very hot exhaust.  This hot exhaust condenses as it is cooled by the upper atmosphere, creating a sort of artificial cloud.  If you believe in this chemtrail story, then you are a grade “A” follower, and an idiot.

TouchedProductions
Sorry to say it, but it’s public knowledge now.  It has nothing to do with conspiracies.  It’s weather modification, and it’s funded by the US State.  Please, before you start flaming me, at least google it.  I wish I was wrong.

iggy6
It is more than weather mod.  AbouttheSky.Com. Plus, read CFR’s own documents… cryptogon.com/?p=7709
Explain the nanotech biologicals containing dessicated blood cells, 24 viruses, anthrax, and many other nasties. Is that for the weather too?

TouchedProductions
I only preach what is proven, mate.   No offense, but unless I can prove it, I’m not going to push it.

CrudeDude
Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

URAterrorist
What is unbelievably dumb, is someone who thinks contrails and chemtrails are the same thing.
 Yes any idiot knows that contrails form at high altitudes and low temperatures.  Chemtrails however, form at ANY altitude and at ANY temperature.  There are 4 seasons where I live.  Chemtrails form in ALL of them.  I’ve only been watching this anomaly for 10 years now.  If they don’t spray all night, my morning BLUE sky turns completely WHITE EVERY afternoon.  This may be your memory of normal, but not mine!

He doesn’t know the stratosphere exists.

RyanKearns1985
The weather is usually “controlled” by salts, not chemical aerosols, as far as I know.  Anyone else know?

PParranoidd
The thing you’re talking about is called cloud seeding.

BlueSkiesWhiteLies
After many years of fighting the Global, Chemtrail Operation, I have found only ONE WEAPON that is effective against them. That is an Orgonite CloudBuster. This simple yet powerful device, breaks up and repels Chemtrails and it restores and maintains natural cloud and blue sky. You can learn to make one on U Tube but I bought mine ready made.  I have 12 work’n hard.  Now my neighborhood sky stays BLUE while surrounding areas stay WHITE! Buy Yours@CTbustersdotcom and SEE The Change In Your World!

I wouldn’t call the above a white lie…

iggy6
Please read cryptogonDOTcom/?p=7709
From the CFR’s own documents…
“1. Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere
2. Add more clouds in the lower part of the atmosphere
3. Place various kinds of reflecting objects in space either near the earth or at a stable location between the earth and the sun.
4. Change large portions of the planets land cover from things that are dark such as trees to things that are light such as open snowcover or grasses.”
So KILL TREES?

CrudeDude
Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

gulesh01
Ok I need to mention something…  I saw this on another video and someone responded saying: What we are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying human beings they train in plains that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.  The weight barrels and over abundance of electrical equipment stocked head to toe in there are there for pilot training. I dont know whats true…

gliderwickid
Those tanks are used in test aircraft for centre of gravity adjustments.   Test pilots need to fly the aircraft on the extremes of what’s possible so as to keep “normal” pilots within the safety limit.  And rather than to risk people or have to carry around with lead bricks they use these large water tanks and shift the water around through the piping to shift the centre of gravity for testing.  The electronics are to record flight parameters.

RyanKearns1985
You’re a bad ass.  Finally a voice of reason.  I thought for sure the illuminati, the reptilian overlords, morgellons or Orgonite was responsible.  About three weeks ago I stumbled upon chemtrails and I haven’t stopped researching yet.  I just keep getting deeper and deeper into paranoid, delusional, craziness.

gulesh01
Now wait up a sec….  Like what the other guy says even if this video is nonsense it doesn’t rule anything out…  btw I have been researching morgellons for about a year.  I first discovered it and spent 2 weeks straight looking into it.  In that time I’ve read every single website that aims to disprove and discredit the “condition” as well as all the sites that try to prove it.  After weeks of first studying it I have no choice but to conclude for now that this disease is real…

gulesh01
Check the CDC site bro they been studying Morgellons for 3 years and they STILL haven’t said a word about their findings.  I must ask… It takes 3+years for them to tell us that these fibers are hair’s/fuz? See for yourself – they have NO suggestion – stumped.   The biggest website dedicated to disproving morg (odd?) is a site called Morgellons Watch ran by 2-3 people who create/debate evidence.  Ever since CDC started they disabled their comments section as it was always filled with angry morg sufferers.

Revolt300
Don’t listen to explanations from anyone.   trails should not be in the sky.   thats it.   this video means nothing.   what we see in the sky DOES mean something.  demand answers and documentation.

gliderwickid
I’m not saying that there is nothing.  I’m just answering gulesh question.  Why should nobody listen to a correct answer?  You yourself are demanding answers but you’re not listening to them.  Bit weird don’t you think?

CrudeDude
Orgonite counters the harmful effects of chemtrails. Simply place a small piece of orgonite between the layers of the foil in your hat.

CrudeDude
Revolt300 said “don’t listen to explanations from anyone…”  Especially if they are coherent, logical statements made by professional people who are more intelligent, and know more about the subject than you.  Only listen to statements made by people who are just as delusional as you are.

oltomee
If you listen to some corrupted scientist (more intelligent than you, know more about the subject etc but he’s a corrupted nwo agent) who is covering the spraying operation you’d feel more informed?  Sometimes you have to think by yourself.   There are weird white planes that spray something on us all around the world.  You don’t have to work at the Nasa to see that lol. Do we have to wait the day they spray blue or red shit to say “it is not normal”?

CrudeDude
oltomee, you poor delusional paranoid cretin, Chemtrails? You gotta be kidding! ROFLMAO at you clowns.

haycarambaaaisback
A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.

CrudeDude
haycarambaaaisback said ” A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.”
Yep.  You got me.  I’m “one of them”.  I’m one of the many intellegent people out here laughing at your ridiculous “chemtrail” videos.  And as far as “stupid” is concerned, I’d say that people who think airplanes are spraying chemicals on them to depopulate the earth are the truly stupid.  That’d include you, Sparkie.

xxxxxDIABLOxxx
if you can prove it right.. go on.   if you have proof it’s not true.. good.   if none of the above.. shut the fuck up and go fuck your mother until she’s dead.  if she’s dead, go dig her up and stick your tongue on her motherfuckin pussy.  you don’t know the truth, and you don’t know otherwise.  don’t play smart dick. hehehe…

gliderwickid
Now calm down.  I’m not some agent or scientist.  I’m training to become a commercial pilot which gives me a reasonable understanding about what happens with planes and contrails.  IF chemtrails were to be real i definitely don’t want anything to do with them.  But atm I am just not convinced by the evidence you guys are providing.  But i’ll check up there if i get a job 😉

julyboy66
allright

Ng7solja
the government can do what they want to human beings and do not have to tell us as long as what they’re doin is classified as testing.

SpriteCCA
So, Middle-eastern musicians are behind ChemTrails?   Whatszup with that?   Geeze…  Peace, Sprite.

Revolt300
pay no attention to these videos.  they spray our skies around the world.   no permission and without mentioning it.  the sky is fine the way it is.  nothing more is needed to be said.   especially in the states.   is america not a democracy?

TheMorpheusbrasil
USA is now a Fascist Dictatorship.  Don’t you know?  Educate yourself man!  George Bush ends the Democracy all around the world man.  Go research, Television is the main tool to make people fool, in order to implement the World Slavery!

TheJimbob111
We are a Constitutional Republic last time I checked, though it would not appear to be in todays events.

WTU208
see the first line written into the Stone Henge sized Georgia Guidestones…..and then tell me these are not real…
 
speeder757
I know why don’t the anti-chemtrailists hire a fucking big hot air balloon and go up into these clouds and breathe as deep as they could, just to prove us wrong.

MrSuntour
speeder757, better yet, chemtrailers should hire someone to go up and do some testing on these persistent contrails that they claim are “chemtrails”.   Chemtrailers make the claims, they’re the ones who have to “prove” that there’s a “clandestine spraying operation”.

speeder757
Give me proof they aren’t chemtrails, it’s just words so far no proof from contrailist either, trust me I don’t make decisions without the facts.  convince me I`ll be the first to agree they are contrails but no one so far has, you’d be the first.

MrSuntour
I think you’re having a problem grasping the simple logic of our situation.  It’s impossible to prove something does not exist, it’s nonsense to even suggest it.  Therefore, the onus is on the Chemtrail believers to prove that Chemtrails DO exist.
Fact – Contrails exist and act the same way they have acted for more than 50 years, youtube search “newsreel battle of the bulge” for tons of persisting and grid contrails from the 1940’s.
Now prove that persistent contrails today are different.
“Newsreel: Battle of the Bulge” at 6:08 to be exact, tons of persisting and crossing contrails from 1945.

speeder757
I would know the difference if I see vapours from the engines and I could live with that it is contrails.  No one should take the word of something unless they research it and all possible avenues are exhausted untill you can come to a competent decision on your own, even then question yourself if it’s correct information you’re getting.  Now if I see spray nozzles there would be no question as to chemtrails, thats why observing with a telescope might be the only way.

MrSabre11
i’ve seen these news reels but i’ve also seen a discovery channel documentry on chemical warfare and saw shots of planes dumping clouds of chemicals and testing the results on animals.. this was during the 30’s – 50’s…   Also weather mods need to be taken into consideration thats also been a viable technology since the 30’s…  In the UK we flooded a town testing it way back then…

chibet
What’s a Chemtrail? Seems Interesting.

peterson553
Has anyone else noticed a ceasing of chemtrails in their area? Out here in LA, on the westside, there have been no chemtrails for over two weeks.  They went from very heavy application for a long time, then nothing…

banana268
In Vancouver BC they have been getting progressively worse.  I have never seen them so bad.  I see them every day.

Firegiant3
Man just watching these movies and reading your comments causes the loss of brain cells how could any of you survive this long in life with the IQ of a Fern?

LOL ! 🙂

CrudeDude
Your comment is an insult to ferns worldwide.  Even a plant has more inherent intelligence than the average chemtard.

elucidative
You got to be a complete retard if you can’t see these “contrails” don’t fade away into the humidity because they are aerosols and make false cirrus clouds and fog the ground with chemicals.  Like they don’t spray people, tell that to the agent orange victims.

Firegiant3
WOW, you are far off there…  my father was in an Agent orange area and VA taking care of our troops…   now they admitted what they did.  It’s way different in a war zone.  It doesn’t make what they did right, but they owned up to it…  our govt’s not perfect and in many cases yes, screwed up, but it’s not dropping chem on us in everyday situations.  Go see a shrink and get fixed.  If not, then move out of this country if you don’t trust them…  get your head whacked off in Iraq, or somewhere similar, and realize what you had.

11seretter11
i would say the same to u, realise what u have, for soon it will all be gone and something new will come, and the time for us is coming fast, it all has begun for u, so sticking around in the US for the next years is maybe not the best place to be.
-Obama – building a civilian army
-Fluoridation of ur drinking water (to slow u all down)
-house market crashed
-dollar will collapse soon
-us/canada/mexico become one (=EU)
-FEMA camps
u don’t think there are chemtrails in the rest of the world?

BingoTheClowno666
huh? is this a language?

pffbh
eugenics is alive and well . They love soft kill weapons that can’t be traced and make you sick so they can sell you medicine to cover the symptoms and you end up in debt and they take it all in the end when you die…  I love the flag wavers like firegiant…  took many years for the govt to admit to wrongdoing over agent orange.  learn some more history.  Forced sterilizations were performed on american women from 1909 till 1945 for women thought to be unfit mothers.

pffbh
Syphilis was given to blacks as an experiment.  aids is man-made.  azt was given to aids victims and it sped up the process of dying. where the hell did morgellons come from?  The victims think it’s chemtrails.  What about the bees dying en masse? No bees, no food.  GMO foods affect the dna in your gut.  It’s frickin’ endless and the fda does nothing!  go have some aspartame…  enjoy!  It’s all coming to a head.  I’m a vet by the way 74-78…  Now our troops are exposed to depleted Uranium.  look it up…

pffbh
yes, flag wavers, we mean nothing.  we are cannon fodder for the big boys playing war games.  Its all about the money.  Always has been…  here’s a heads-up for all who are reading my rant. The dollar will tank between nov 5th and march of 2010 according to predictive linguistics which has a 75% accuracy rating.  Better have a 6 month supply of food, at least.  get a couple 50lb bags of rice and beans.  better own silver or gold depending on what you can afford. Hyperinflation is coming soon.  good luck!

Firegiant3
see his profile for my rebuttal.

beachcomber2008
This is the Boeing 777 LR prototype.  Look it up in airliners. net.  The notice has been photoshopped in.  THIS IS AN IN-YOUR-FACE LIE.

DYONESLEMOSRAMOS
jihad now, jihad now, jihad now.

speeder757
Ive seen those newsreels too.  Yes they are compelling, but newsreels can be doctored.  Hell, I’ve seen a truck turn into a robot in a movie.  That looked real.

GregOrca
You guys – if you had ever bothered to do legitimate research you would know these are normal ballast tanks for simulating the weight of passengers in new aircraft prototypes.  All prototype passenger airliners use them.  You can plainly see them on film of the very first 747 in 1969 long before 1996!
Not a shitty doctored photo stolen off the net with “sprayer”‘ and “Hazard” added using photoshop, but the real thing.
at 6:41


at 1:05


Also watch this video at 5:51 mins in

Such old films show how farcical the claims of Chemtards are, and show their almost total ignorance of even the most basic aspects of aviation and science and meteorology.

Stev888
The favourite concept of the Chemtard is the “persistent contrail” normally prefixed somewhere with the thought-stopping “scientifically proven.”

GregOrca
No, the favourite concept of the chemtard is “just look up at the sky”, the same mindless principle that made people think the sun revolved around the earth for millenia.  Chemtards don’t understand science.  They don’t understand anything much which is why they believe in the hoax and have no idea what their eyes are seeing.

sodasoap
I’m a pilot and this are not contrail, it’s more than vapour than simple minds may think.  Not normal for sure.

stopthechem
i know they are not normal.. because i cough up blood and have difficulty breathing about 3 hours after they pass by … sick bastards.

AntiLieGuy
The chemtrails are hide our 10th planet Nibiru. This is also the reason the govt is now classifying all asteroid events.  this is the warning for the war of armageddon which will see Russia, China and the SCO destroy America on 10-10-09.
News here: (3w) . docstoc . com/docs/6519605/WarNews
btw – gregorca is a paid govt liar. dont argue with the liars.

Said with such conviction too.  But the date has passed!  Are we at war?

CrudeDude
AntiLieGuy—1st degree Chemtard.

sleathx
I agree with you, he is a liar.  I don’t know about government liar, but he certainly could be a disinformant. Not agreeing with chemtrails, but his arguments against chemtrails are “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  That’s not an argument, nor is it a debatable fact, it is a series of opinions.  People tend to take opinions as facts – so he is a decent liar.  But not good enough.

tAcco9911
You cannot go into a debate with chemtards, because there is no foundation for debate.  You won’t debate with someone who tells you earth is a disk and not a globe.  So it is perfectly reasonable to say (and, therefore, not discuss with them) “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  It may be an opinion, but it’s a well-founded one.

vaccineshurtbabies
“chemtards” = chemtrail deniers
There is an obvious difference between chemtrails and contrails.  Contrails fade, chemtrails spread out into smoke-like formations and often create chembows.  Contrails don’t.

tAcco9911
Ah, vaccineshurtbabies…  interesting.  Please explain why that makes you sure that longer lasting and smoke-like formations that last behind an airplane are chemtrails and not contrails! 
The only thing that is obvious is that there is different behavior in contrails.  Or what about clouds?  They look also like smoke, can last very long and influence the weather and there are may different types of them. Uh, I am scared of them!
😀

tAcco9911
You know that the atmosphere is not a monolithic formation?  It has different layers, with different conditions, airplanes are flying at different altitudes, there are so much variables that can influence the “behavior” of a cloud or contrail and if you consider them, the different behavior of contrails from time to time can be explained by more rational means than a conspiracy theory about governments polluting or sky on purpose!

tAcco9911
Sorry, but that’s the problem with chemtards: their minds seem to be so simplistic that they cannot imagine that the world is far more complex than their minds and everything that looks strange must be made up by an evil world conspiracy.  I do not want to insult anyone, but please, if you do not have the brains, shut the f*!? up and deal with and talk about topics that you understand…

poopindaturd
and how is this going to hide a planet… seriously…

CrudeDude
Correct Title; “CHEMTARDS FROM THE INSIDE”

TheFireShow
Looks like you guys are being exposed, hey DUDE? You can try to deceive all the morons you like, but some of us know too much. Perhaps name-calling makes you out to be highly intelligent, and beyond the ENLIGHTED ONE.  However, try as you may, you will only persuade the weak minded clones.  We who track air pressure, humidity, moisture, and temps know the games that the world militaries, and new world order governments play.  PERHAPS YOU WORK FOR THEM.

sodasoap
You are right I cough blood as well!
 
aces9876
more people need to become aware of chemtrails, its so obvious.

mypigmisery
There is no money for we need, oh money is so tight, gotta stop this funding, gotta take more funds for humanitarian good.  No funds going here, less going there.  But I’ll be damned they got LOTSA LOTSA money for this poison!  Can U imagine the money we could have for the good of others – instead of using it on this?

aroneous
HAHAHA Where are the thousands of pilots, crews, air traffic controllers, airport employees, chemical producers, loaders, plane owners, repairmen, and hundreds of other jobs?  Basically at least a million people worldwide would have to be in on this with none of them breaking silence for it to be true.  Yes there are chemicals that come out of the back of airplanes, from fuel combustion.  Contrails appear differently in the sky depending on the atmosphere.  Sorry to ruin your little fantasy story.

vaccineshurtbabies
“Where are the thousands of pilots, crews…”
Interesting point.  The fact remains that chemtrails are real.  I have seen quite a few myself and they’re obviously not contrails.

WOW. Another telling point slides right off the tinfoil hat.

voidows
Thanks for sharing.  Altho we never know that this plane was never used for spraying on people. We now have some good proof they try to hide it.  Why else would they rebuild an commercial plane that is far more expensive than an industrial plane. With no windows on the side for example.  Thanks for sharing.

I recognize the style here.  This point I have seen made in the original Italian.  Voidows is an originator of this fraud.

gliderwickid
It was never used for spraying people.  It’s a test aircraft.  Those tanks are ballast tanks used for Centre of Gravity shifting so different loads can be simulated without putting people at risk.  Do some research before you blindly believe every Youtube video.

voidows
Talk about brainwash.  Of course they use it for lots of different stuff.  But thinking it’s only for the GOOD of mankind is really believing everything so-called officials say and not searching any further than that.  I did a lot of research already and am still busy with it.  Ignoring and saying it’s not true ain’t research dude.

gliderwickid
Dude…  the picture of the inside of the aircraft is taken from Airliners.net.  It’s a prototype Boeing 777-200LR.  This actual picture is from test aircraft WD001.  The 2 signs were photoshopped in.  Says something about the trustworthiness of your fellow researchers.

voidows
OMG I know that.  I know they r used for more stuff.  And i know there r people that make scams.  But just because they give you a reason why they use it.  Doesn’t mean the other reasons r impossible or faulty.  There’s more than enough proof around.  It’s not just this movie.  This movie proves it can be done and it is done.  What is this with you people?
 100 people talk about some unknown.  And 1 person says it’s not true and you all believe that single person.  What a brainwash.
Show me the official site then were these pictures were taken from and edited by an editor.  
Since you know for sure what you say you must have proof to back it up.  Or did YOU only watch youtube movies and listen to your teachers at school.  And watch wikipedia?  Show me the pictures without the altering of it.  Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.  It is all seamlessy fitting together. Pls give link because i don’t believe you.

A fine bluff!
 
tAcco9911
“you must have proof to back it up”  Where are your proofs?  “Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.”  And you are an expert in image manipulation?  The one who is believing the wrong people, is you!  You listen to people who have no real evidence, just weird speculation.  They accuse people of polluting our sky without either evidence or proof.  The defendant is considered innocent until proven otherwise…   And you have no proof!
 
gliderwickid
I most certainly have proof.  The original was taken by William Appleton.  Go to airliners.net.  Search for William Appleton in the top righthand corner of the screen.  And then it’s picture 8 on the first page of results.  You’ll have to do it this way because you can’t post links in youtube comments, unfortunately.

voidows
LoL..  Just stay in your BOX of thinking mate.  It doesn’t matter.  Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  And yes i have a master in digital editing for your information.  Why do you answer a question with an question?  I ask for the real pictures and proof of your words you said. And you ask me that question again?

tAcco9911
I do not ask about proofs for pictures.  I asked for proofs for chemtrails!  These pictures and fabricated videos do not prove anything.  It is OK to question things, but it is not OK to neglect the obvious answers and create a world conspiracy from the most illogical and unlikely explanations.  This is … sorry, I cannot find another word for it… silly.  You are the one in the BOX, because you only think about chemtrails as being real!”  “Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  “OK, bring a shipload of valid unquestionable proofs that are scientifically grounded or based on eye-witnesses (and just seeing a plane creating a contrail is not evidence for chemtrails).  Explain how the logistics for chemtrails work, explain the motivation for “spraying” and explain the physics and chemistry.  The question here is not about faked images, so maybe you are discussing the wrong subject regarding your profession.

voidows
thanks gliderwick i will look into it.   Tacco you simply keep saying the same stuff as i asked you.  This is my last entry since we won’t come to an agreement like this and it only gets worse.  I believe something and you believe something.  Let’s respect each other’s choices okay.   Thanks for responding Tacco and Glider.  Without debate we will never get smarter.  Thanks a lot.

So tacco i was right the picture is not altered in any way.  I looked at the picture what spiderwick told. It’s precisely the same one.  Do you see any bees for example around the last years.  They pollinate the plants.  If this stops the plants will go extinct.  That’s a link to the chemtrails. And Germany has openly admitted that they were testing chemicals to alter the weather for war practice. There is much more to see and read then only a few youtube movies. And pls open your mind tacco.

Voidows slid smoothly out of that one with a successful misdirection.

gliderwickid
Germany has openly admitted to using Chaff.  The translation from German to English is misleading.  There is no mention whatsoever about chemtrails in that one.  I must admit that there is something happening with the bees.  But that can have many other reasons than chemtrails alone.  These chemtrail movies are not good research material.  There are people out there deliberately altering pictures and videos to prove their point.  And i must add that the picture was altered.  The black writing above and below the piece of paper on the wall was added.  Where he claims it says Sprayer and Hazard inside.  And the label on one of the tanks which he highlighted says Load Bank in the original picture.

wayneob1
Google this: Leaked DEFRA Papers from the U.K. Confirm Chemtrails Usage Real!

Tressco
…misleading title…  …defend your credibility…  Interesting info, though!

oasisthunder
And to think, you American fluoride-drinking people are so dumbed-down already that INSTEAD of complaining & doing something about this chemtrail spraying that occurs all over the USA…  you simply watch baseball and do absolutely NOTHING!   WAKE UP PEOPLE!  Cut the crapola on irrelevant stupidity and do something, ANYTHING to stop this!  That goes for you goofy Canucks 2.

tgambill
Nazi Germany used fluoride in the camps to make prisoners docile. Yes my fellow Americans are heading for a major wake up call that will dwarf 911, since the government planned 911 anyway.

gulesh01
Christ Mr Canada you really need to tighten your weed control laws.  Keep your nutter ass on the toilet.  I seen this before.  What you are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying humans they train in craft that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.

WellSightedGentleman
you’re right!  its all about weed control laws!   believe it or not!

Telepcanin
Why do they do that, do they spray some viruses or what?

diffusedlight
It’s the tin foil hat brigade!  This is a plane used for testing WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION ON A PASSENGER JET.  They pump water around the tanks to simulate different passenger seating plans to make sure the plane is safe to fly.  It’s funny how desperate illiterate hippies have to believe in something “bigger” than them (like an evil government conspiracy at every turn) -when 99.99999% of people already know where the photos and videos they stole ORIGINALLY came from.  It’s the tin foil hat brigade!

pajas2222
LOL, just lol!

doobedoo22
When an a/c is new, you need to test its performance with a weight equivalent to a full passenger load.  So they mount small tanks in place of each seat, and pump them full of water – which stays on board for the whole flight.  What we’re shown here is a prototype or pre-production a/c.  If you wanted to transport or spray chemicals, you’d use fewer, larger tanks – more efficient, obviously.

aheartattack1
Wow, the follies of developing a program such as photoshop…  damn you GATES!!!
p.s. i mean the placards not the tanks.

chrispyt77
the tanks are for testing of weight distribution. this dodgy photoshop job is excellent disinfo.   it proves nothing, just that some people like stirring up trouble and creating easily debunked disinfo.  but this dodgy little picture doesn’t change the fact that contrails used to dissipate, and now they create banks of wispy white ‘clouds’.  hold onto your intellect, let go of your conditioned simplistic ideas about big issues in the world.  Something is amiss in the sky.

bikersrule07
I’m sorry but this could be any old cargo plane…   how come these people who are supposed to have taken these pics, never ever get the tail number?  Hmm, or they never ever show more photos of the plane, this is bull shit.

durizap
Just stay in your conformity zone of ignorance, and stay cheerfull…  Or wake up to reality!
 
bikersrule07
Why?  Who is to say you’re right?  Who says you’re wrong and I’m right or vice versa?  What you said to me durizap, the same goes for you.

durizap
Difference is, that I do not say this is truth or BS.  I put a neutral stand until I know much more.  You said he was wrong, I said you should wake up and get out of your conformity zone (in a sarcastic way tho).  I say this, to make you consider the possibilities, not just to blindly believe videos like this.  Sorry if I offended you, I only tried to provoke you a tiny bit to make you think for yourself.

bikersrule07
okay.. how am i ignorant? how am i being comfortable?… why? because i don’t fall for what you may believe? in or what somone else believes in, there is no logic there.. you don’t even know me to judge me like that.. i don’t think you even know what i believe in.

VelosoFernando
Spraying Day in Portugal – Tuesday 25th August 2009 – Lots of grids in the Sky.

lukeslandspeeder
ya so much the sky has faded and isn’t blue anymore.  it’s a white faded pale blue haze everyday now.  1970″s-1980″s people know how different it is now including the summer evenings, the winds don’t blow anymore, the sun is different color also.  then compared to now now is terrible.  summer evening in 1989 were WOW.  they felt so good outside.  gone now.

TheMorpheusbrasil
Yes, I make your words as mine, here in BRAZIL we suffered huge attacks since may, now we have 4 days without chemtrails, but the skies ARE WHITE NOW, with strong sun we can see perfectly the light white fog all the day, and at morning’s dawn the skies, once black-to-blue, are now WHITE TO LIGHT-BLUE-GRAY!  OMG!  (just send my report from Brazil to world)

bulltexan1
Trymetylaluminum-radar jamming medium see ::: qc0TWVtozio&feature=related  Also can (in theory) used to curb “global warming” by dispersing in UPPER ionisphere, to reflect sunlight…  away from mother earth…

gliderwickid
And Jet aircraft are supposed to put these particles into the ionosphere?  Do you even know how high the Ionosphere is?  You need a space shuttle to get there!  You guys absolutely don’t know what you’re talking about.

Breakhoven
muther fuckers!
 
rocnsoc2007
New World Order?

moirbindy
Oh?  BS that’s kegs of Beer not chemicals lmao!
 
Adideva01
Today on my way to work there were 10ths of these ******* chemtrails all over the sky.  And by the way these types of demoniac events are taking place in other countries…  As mentioned in the Vedas in the current Kali-yuga goverment/rulers are demons disguised…  “Oh Supreme Personality of Godhead; Please destroy all demoniac forces of the Earth.”  Planet Earth needs new Mngmt.  Era of Enlightenment coming…

dconrad000
Go to my channel and see a recent, extremely hard hitting interview on the absolute fraud and danger of vaccines — and about a simple tool to viralize the truth about vaccines. The more people that know the truth, the harder it will be to force these vaccines on those of us that would rather put our trust in God, eating right, our own immune systems, natural remedies, faith & prayer — rather than on Big Pharma and their veritable witches brews.

beachcomber2008
I see this concatenation of lies is still up and carrying out its socially-malicious slanders.  What a vile and ignorant world we find ourselves in.

OK Rushfan, counter these statements, ignoring the fact that you unashamedly persist in publishing this FAKE.  All aircraft trails are definitely contrails.  Burning kerosine makes an equal amount of water.  The plane is in the stratosphere which is stable and clear.  The stratosphere can hold in supersaturation (when very clean) an excess of water as vapor.  This excess can boost the density of the trail by up to 10,000 times.  So 10,000 times as much ICE as the engines make by burning kerosine may be visible to you.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS.

All aircraft trails are definitely not “chemtrails”.  The gap between engine and trail evidences the invisible exhaust vapors and gases.  Metals don’t make invisible vapors – in fact they’re used in fireworks PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY MAKE BRIGHT COLORED FLAMES.  So there are no metals in the exhaust.  So there is NEITHER aluminum NOR barium present in the TRAIL.  ALL organic materials burn in a jet flame at 2000 degrees to produce that GAP, for carbon dioxide (invisible) and steam (invisible) is what they will make.  No metals.  No organics.  Just fuel and air.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY NOT “CHEMTRAILS”.

edgeguy99
What?  Since when can water vapor from a few jets make a cloudy day?  Since when Einstein?  Let me answer for my ignorant friend.  Since never!  You need to change your misinformation strategy because it’s already painfully clear that someone is spraying stuff into our skies.  Might I suggest saying the stuff is harmless and running with that BS line?  Then, when we are all sick, you can come up with another excuse like “a Virus, not our fault”.
 
beachcomber2008
Since whenever a powered aeroplane flies through ANY stratospheric layer which is SUPERSATURATED, which will happen for 17 flights in every 100 on average.  This has been known ever since the 1000-bomber raids over Germany in 1943.  100s of research papers on this have been written since.  The fact that you have never bothered to RESEARCH THE SCIENCE makes you a jackass, doesn’t it?  Persisting in your lies without bothering to check what I say will make you worse than just a slanderous liar.

edgeguy99
“Since whenever a powered aeroplane flies through ANY stratospheric layer which is SUPERSATURATED, which will happen for 17 flights in every 100 on average.”  And then disappear a mile or two behind the jet.  Not turn into clouds!  And I never slandered anyone.  We all see chemtrails in the sky.  What is your game here?  There is no question that jets are spraying stuff in the air.  What science am I supposed to research?  What lies am I telling?  Look up!  There it is!  Research done!

beachcomber2008
“No-brainers” are for people without brains.  Are you one of those?  Aircraft ice trails PERSIST as a physical consequence of atmospheric humidity.  Do you understand what “persist” means?  What it DOESN’T MEAN is “fade away”!  The world is more complex than you think.  People work harder than you appear to believe.  Calling my resume of known and established atmospheric science “misinformation strategy” IS slanderous.  I have PM’d you.  Read my letter through.

edgeguy99
“Aircraft ice trails PERSIST as a physical consequence of atmospheric humidity.  Do you understand what “persist” means? What it DOESN’T MEAN is “fade away”!  It doesn’t make clouds that block out the sun.  It doesn’t make an overcast day.  We already know about contrails and because of this controversy, we know a lot about contrails.  We are talking about chemtrails or the intentional spraying of a substance in the atmosphere by jet planes.  There is nothing slanderous about anything I said.

beachcomber2008
“We are talking about chemtrails or the intentional spraying of a substance in the atmosphere by jet planes.”  And I have just given you a logical and conclusive proof that your statements are lies, baseless, and without foundation.  Your failure to refute these statements has already demonstrated to everyone that you are indeed a slanderous liar.

edgeguy99
Again with the “slander”.  You’re in a cult.  It sounds like your from the LRH cult but you could be from another.  No matter, your choice of language gives you away.  There are 3 of you here that use the same exact language.  It’s the problem with cults.  After you’re broken down and they rebuild you – it’s always from the same book.  That makes you easy to spot.  Which group do you guys belong to?  Nothing personal, we all breathe the same air.  Are you aware that your life was stolen from you?

beachcomber2008
So you DUCK acknowledging the FRAUD of this video and you DODGE acknowledging the LOGIC of why trails are definitely contrails and why they are definitely NOT “chemtrails”, and wish to change the subject, PROVING beyond all doubt that you ARE indeed a slanderous liar.
You will not conduct an honest debate, will you?  You prefer further slander and ad hominems.  Another irresponsible liar OWNED…  The difference between us is that I am calling you what you obviously are, by your own actions.

edgeguy99
You really like to point the finger.  I lost count of all the crimes you accused me of.  Chemtrails are real and their purpose is a secret.  Call me whatever makes you happy.  Very odd chemical and biological matter are in some chemtrails.  They have found traces of radioactive material and aluminum powder.  And I already told you guys to stop using the word “slander” because It’s a tell that your a cult member and robotically you still use the word.  Your so programmed.  They stole your life.

beachcomber2008
“point finger”- that’s YOU.  Hypocrite.  “lost count” – learn to count.  “Chemtrail real” – No. Your delusion is.  “Call me” – CHEMTARD.  “in some CTs” – Contrails have been tested. ICE.  “traces of r’active mat’l and alum’m” – The US is radioactive. Aluminum is in SOIL.  “stop using slander” – I’ll USE it while you DO it.  “They stole your life” – I’m an atheist and anarchist.  NO bugger owns me. I live in the sun close to family and friends.  You steal TRUTH, even from yourself.  There’ll be consequences.

edgeguy99
Someone is spraying chemicals into our atmosphere and doing so on a global level!  If you want to express your anger, do so at the people poisoning us.  I know from your own choice of words that you’re a NWO cult member.  You’re a Luciferian.  Your statement “I live in the sun” is code for basking in the light of Lucifer (the illuminated one).  This global chemtrail phenomenon is the work of Satanic cults working together to bring about “the New World Order”.  You’re an NWO cult worker ant.

TheAmericanThinkers
Hey edge guy.  i found evidence of Morgellons in the spray that lands on us Chemtrail believers, Checkout my video.  I bet you get it all over you too.

edgeguy99
That’s sperm and you know it.  Don’t belittle a serious subject with your homosexual nonsense.  Grow up already.  You’re too old for this.

TheAmericanThinkers
Hey, these tanks in planes must be a new thing right, because these trails are new and the tanks shouldn’t appear in old films like this which actually explain what they are:

edgeguy99
con·spir·a·cy  /k’n’sp’r’si/ [kuhn-spir-uh-see] noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
These people use the same language.  Accused of “Slander” from two different people who take the same position!  They’re reading from a book.  You people are so transparent.  You must be really low level cult members and youtube doesn’t even deserve a real handler.  But your making our case for us!  Are you two part of a conspiracy?

tastycrows
I am from the government, I come to “debunk” all “myths” about “chemtrails” because it matters to us.  People are finding out about our conspiracy!  They can’t know or the chems won’t work and we won’t be able to control your minds!  With alien technology kept secret in Area 51.

beachcomber2008
You are ignorant and from the Moon.  The Boeing 777 LR Prototype shown in the video has barrels of water in it to shift its centre of gravity in order to determine the flight envelope within which it may be flown.  Someone has photoshopped this picture from Airliners. net to put a “hazmat inside” notice on the cabin wall.  This is a conscious fraud and an absolute lie.   Everything each of you has written has been a lie, a falsehood, a SLANDER.  Everything I’ve written is true.  Too afraid to check?

edgeguy99
We are being chemtrailed by a cartel of satanic cults that have been behind the scene for centuries.  Modern science enables the NWO to affect mankind on a global scale.  They have no qualms about sacrificing us to their “enlightened one” and believe that they will be reincarnated back to their blood lines, preserving their fortunes and power.  So if they die with us, so be it.  Their minds are twisted by an indoctrination process that starts at infancy.  They are highly motivated robots.

beachcomber2008
“spraying chemicals on a global level” – not visible in satellite pics.
“people poisoning” – Your lies are POISON.
“your a NWO cult” – You’re an OWNED cunt.
“Your Luciferian” – You’re a slanderer – once more.
“Your statement “I live in the sun” – Is the TRUTH, for I live in the Canary Isles.  Today it has been HOT AND SUNNY.
All aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS and DEFINITELY NOT CONTRAILS
THIS VIDEO IS A PHOTOSHOPPED FRAUD, defended by a liar who is unable to counter my arguments, which are:
All aircraft trails are definitely contrails.  And this is why.  Burning kerosine makes an equal amount of water.  All long-distance planes cruise in the stratosphere which is stable and clear most all the time – except when it holds sometimes holds visible ice crystals in cirrus clouds.   The stratosphere can hold in supersaturation (only when very clean!) an excess of water as vapor.  This excess can boost the density of the trail by up to 10,000 times.  So 10,000 times as much ICE as the engines make by burning kerosine may be visible to you.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY CONTRAILS.

All aircraft trails are definitely not “chemtrails”.  The gap between engine and trail evidences the invisible exhaust vapors and gases emitted by the engines.  Metals don’t make invisible vapors – in fact they’re used in fireworks PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY MAKE BRIGHT COLORED FLAMES.  So there are no metals of any kind in the exhaust.  So there is NEITHER aluminum NOR barium present in ANY TRAIL, because trails ALWAYS begin with a GAP.   ANY organic material WILL burn in a jet flame at 2000 degrees to produce that GAP, for carbon dioxide (invisible) and steam (invisible) is what they MUST make.  No metals.  No organics.  Just spent fuel and air.  So all aircraft trails are DEFINITELY NOT “CHEMTRAILS”.
 
edgeguy99
Just like car exhaust on a cold day, steam dissipates.  If you see lingering smoke your engine has a problem.  Contrails are similar in that they dissipate.  If it lingers and spreads out then it’s not a contrail.  Jets are spraying chemicals into our atmosphere across the planet and your funny little explanations sound like a used car salesman explaining that the smoke coming out of the exhaust is just steam and not a blown head gasket.  But the truth is in the lingering smoke, not your bull.

TheAmericanThinkers
You are so full of shit AND stupid.  Watch the contrail instantly dissipate in this video, and the breath on a “cold” day. Wow, it doesn’t blow away – it instantly dissipates right?
And the contrail doesn’t drift all the way to the horizon, it instantly disappears…  just like your intellect did years ago.

So as Beachcomber correctly states, there is a slight difference between your idea of a cold day, and the typical conditions at airline cruise altitudes.  But to know that would actually require some education on your part which, sadly, is unlikely to ever happen.

edgeguy99
Watch them bury my post.

beachcomber2008
“Watch them bury” – You bury mine.
There’s just one of me…:)
“Just like car exhaust on a cold day” – MINUS FORTY is colder than “a cold day”. At the N and S Pole such exhausts PERSIST.
“If you see lingering smoke” – from seven miles beneath you cannot say that.
“If it lingers”? – Hundreds of science papers say ICE.
“Jets are spraying” – You are LYING.
“not your bull” – Thousands of scientists know better than you.  They also know how to use libraries, and debate properly.  They also don’t slander innocent people.

 

SAME POSTS 

youtube

“i have seen these same posts of yours on other chemtrail videos” – but obviously not responded to them.
“Frankly, I have my doubts about chemtrails myself” – because if you had, they’d be MORE than DOUBTS.
“How do you respond to Dr. Deagle’s Video response above?” – I didn’t like “sheeple” or “chemtrails” and a tripod would be NO HELP on a boat anyway. The aircraft above were either breaking from the troposphere into the stratosphere or hitting a humid stratospheric layer.
“There are also videos and still pictures of “chemtrails” that go in circles and is not an airshow” – an “airport holding pattern” or a military “keep station” are normal phenomena.
“Have you seen those?” – Yes. I was an air force brat and then an aeronautical engineer in past lives.
“I understand the onion theory” – NO YOU DON’T. It isn’t a THEORY, it is KNOWN ATMOSPHERIC PHYSICS.
“Do some fuels pollute more than others or is it only the onion theory that makes or breaks contrails?” – What MAKES a CONTRAIL is JET EXHAUST (STEAM and NITROGEN and CARBON DIOXIDE) AT 2000 deg C meeting COLD HUMID AIR at -40 to -80 deg C. The STEAM FREEZES TO A FINE “SMOKE” OF ICE CRYSTALS. HUMIDITY LEVELS determine whether or not those crystals SUBLIME back into water vapour, which is INVISIBLE. In SUPERSATURATED AIR the crystals ACCRETE MORE ICE AND GAIN WEIGHT AND FALL FASTER. In perfectly saturated air the crystals REMAIN AND SPREAD LIKE DIFFUSING SMOKE. In less-than-saturated air the crystals SLOWLY SUBLIME AND DISAPPEAR – to water vapor..
In VERY DRY AIR a trail may not become visible at all. 

SCALAR (“WEAPONS”)

tesla-1

“scalar weapons” – Hmm. Wiki pulls up nothing on that. Do you have a good ref?
* Since then I’ve discovered that “scalar weapons” are based on “imaginary number” field calculations deriving from Nicola Tesla’s work. He theorized that through them it was possible to capture FREE ENERGY. Have you seen any such energy in the past 100 years? Nor have I.
Now “imaginary number” calculation have been used in Quantum Theory to make some very successful predictions about the physical properties of particles. However, they have never been extended into the “real” non-quantum world with any success. If they were usable as weapons, they would have been used by now. Have they? – NO..
“other electromagnetic technologies” – “Electromagnetic” isn’t a buzzword. The light you see by IS EM radiation – we all live in a BATH of it, and WITHOUT IT we would DIE. The ONLY dangers from it are from focussed HIGH ENERGY beams – LIKE LASERS OR MICROWAVES. Unless you like getting sunburned on the beach and wish to risk contracting skin cancer.
“plasmatizing the atmosphere” – Now you’re talking HAARP. This can “warm up” a line-of-sight area in the IONOSPHERE some hundreds of square kilometres in area. The energy density is in the order of THREE MICROWATTS per square centimetre, which is LESS THAN A TEN-THOUSANDTH of the energy of SUNLIGHT. It may be able to EXCITE the ionosphere, but that would be because THERE’S VERY LITTLE MATERIAL IN THE IONOSPHERE – IT’S ALMOST OUTER SPACE. It could NEVER successfully warm up my cup of cold tea.

haarp

1) It’s line-of-sight (but cannot move!) which makes it a crummy weapon.
2) It is incapable of carrying out war policies – the worst it can do is damage radio communication.
3) It is energy-INEFFICIENT, demanding VAST energy input for a small output.
4) There are AT LEAST THREE OTHERS. The European one is TEN TIMES LARGER.
5) These places are RESEARCH ESTABLISHMENTS, and WILL get military funding on the off-chance that there’s some tactical information to be gained from knowledge of the ionosphere.

THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS SCALAR WEAPONS.

SCALE

atmosphereearth

A SENSE OF SCALE?
A typical passenger transport plane (medium haul) burns 7 tons of fuel and unloads 7 tons of ice and 4 tons of gaseous oxides (mostly carbon dioxide) into the tropopause, which is the boundary between the troposphere and the stratosphere.
The troposphere contains about 80% of the atmosphere and is the part of the atmosphere in which we live, and make weather observations. In this layer, average temperatures DECREASE WITH HEIGHT. This is known as adiabatic cooling, i.e. a change in temperature caused by a decrease in pressure. Even so, it is still more prone to vertical mixing by convective and turbulent transfer, than other parts of the atmosphere. These vertical motions and the abundance of water vapor make it the home of all important weather phenomena.
The troposphere’s thermal profile is largely the result of the heating of the Earth’s surface by incoming solar radiation. Heat is then transferred up through the troposphere by a combination of convective and turbulent transfer. This is in direct contrast with the stratosphere, where warming is the result of the direct absorption of solar radiation and INCREASES WITH HEIGHT. The stratosphere is STABLE, and doesn’t support convection at all.
The troposphere is around 16 km high at the equator, with the temperature at the tropopause around –80 °C. At the poles, the troposphere reaches a height of around 8 km, with the temperature of the tropopause around –40 °C in summer and –60 °C in winter.
The weight of the atmosphere is 5.25 petatonnes. The ANNUAL FUEL BURNT is 300 M tons.
One can see that, as a proportion of the weight of the atmosphere, the burnt fuel comprises FIVE MILLIONTHS OF A PER CENT.
It would take TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS at today’s rate of air travel, (and believe me THAT CANNOT happen – fossil fuel will be gone in twenty years!) to HALF-FILL our atmosphere with contrail gases (and that of course ignores the fact that physical and living processes would be doing that job anyway).

boklores

The Earth would easily absorb them in that time…   it’s BIG…

SCATTERING

“Jazzroc IS a spook its obvious” – look up my spooky music on my channel here.
“why hasnt any1 seen these chemtrails 5+ years ago” – they were 1st seen 88 years ago – I’ve seen them for 50 years. I called them contrails…because they ARE contrails…
“why are the planes unmarked” – the phenomenon is called “blue light scattering”. Read a PHYSICS book.

craft-trail

“why do they form overcast clouds” – because they ARE clouds – of ICE crystals – just as are Cirrus clouds.
“why is there proof that these trails contain heavy metals, anthrax, zinc & other nasties” – THERE IS NO PROOF AT ALL. I’ve been looking…
“the mainstream media won’t” – they don’t concern themselves with fools.

media

Sleeps

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SLEEPS – SLIMEBALL – THE TWO FACES OF SCHNARCH – SOCRATIC INTERLUDE – SODA POP – SOME & ALL – SPACESUITS – SR1419 PWNS RUDEDOG – STEAM – STERN’S “DUMBEST CONSPIRACY EVER” – STEVE

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…

SLEEPS

“they don’t have to use the engines to spread it” – Well, there’s only the fuel dump vents on the wing trailing edges. Where else do you mean?

wing5

There would have to be special tanks and bowsers, airport personnel in protective clothing, some operators or their families poisoned or infected, splashes anywhere on runway aprons would be brilliant WHITE.
THERE IS NONE OF THIS!
“I look through my binoculars and can see” – CONTRAILS.
“look Clifford is not deceiving” – WHEN HE SLEEPS…
“metallic salt introduced as a condensation nuclei” – 3.4 MILLION TONS would be required to single/shot the Earth (apparently there’s a report which claims 20 million tons). You’d have to keep doing it as well…
“pets licking/planes adding” – No connection. Do you live near a salt mine, or the sea?
“Trails should not spread” – GO AWAY AND READ UP before you repeat yourself. Try href=”http://contrailscience.com”>http://contrailscience.com
If you wish to discover TRUE SCIENCE, just use “advanced search” and make sure you exclude “CHEMTRAIL”, “CHEM”, and “AEROSOL”, as there are thousands of chemtrailers out there, and they do not understand science at all, and are clogging up the web with misinformation and disinformation.

SLIMEBALL

Hi Slimeball Disinformation Specialist…
Seeing as you are conducting a campaign of LIES I thought I’d hit you with TRUTH.
An easy thing to do because you don’t have to remember what you said last time….
My basic life story is on http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc
I have a channel here, as you can see.
I am a 65 yr old man, heterosexual and faithful, happily married for forty years, with a beautiful and intelligent wife, two beautiful and intelligent professionally-qualified daughters, and an energetic and intelligent 8 year old grandson (and another’s on its way!). I have never lied or cheated throughout my life. I am an inventor, composer, and artist. I owe no-one anything (apart from my wife) and am successful and happy.
What have you done, apart from LIE? (Rhetorical, but he didn’t understand that…)

THE TWO FACES OF SCHNARCH

November 2007
i just took a look at your wordpress blog. don’t get me wrong. i’m not fanatical about chemtrails, just curious. i haven’t reached a final conclusion yet. i’m interested in all kinds of information regarding that topic. that means i’m interested in plain scientific fact, weird sci-fi psycho theories and everything in between.
one false theory spread by the chemtrail fanatics is: ‘every contrail that doesn’t disappear within a few minutes is a chemtrail’. in saturated troposphere a contrail can trigger the generation of a cirrus cloud. i remember seeing some vapor trails that don’t dissipate since my early childhood. i also saw fat contrails in ‘rocky 2’ starring sylvester stallone.
another misleading theory is that there are no chemtrails at all.
As i’m sure that you have seen this video posted by your special friend nicscics, german military admits spraying substances that appeared on a weather radar as a ghost cloud. the meteorologist thinks that it’s chaff.
whatever it is, some planes are flying around spraying crap without asking the population if they want it. another well documented case is espanola canada. the difference is that unlike germany the officials denied the whole thing over there. these are just two examples that shouldn’t be ignored.
what still makes me sceptical is the amount of unverified crap about chemtrails that is being spread on the internet. it’s almost like a special interest of esoteric/UFO weirdos that don’t care about evidence. for instance the spray on/off phenomenon. i understand that the plane can alternate between saturated and unsaturated layers of the troposphere which causes the illusion of spray on/off. i also know about hypersaturation causing the illusion of the whole plane spraying. and i know about the wake vortex.
and if someone sees a plane spraying something, it’s only fuel dumping. and that is only done in case of emergency. there must either be a lot of emergency situations up there or they are doing that too often. when i mentioned low flying planes causing a contrail (or chemtrail) that turns into a lasting cloud you asked me to VERIFY it. i can not do it. even if i would film it with 20x zoom compare the size of the plane to the size of planes flying in cruising altitude filmed with 20x zoom … u could argue it’s fake. i don’t have the possibility of taking a stereo picture. so i’m afraid i cannot verify it to convince you. the problem is that i can tell the difference between a plane in cruising altitude and a plane flying less than 5000m high. when i saw that the first time i was stunned. i had already dumped the chemtrail theory then. but to see that happening very often made me change my mind. i also happen to see this phenomenon pretty often.
when i first saw it i thought he just filmed a reflection in the window. now i know it’s a parhelion/ sun dog. look up sun dog on youtube. i did it and rarely found a sun dog video without con-(chem?)trails, even if the lucky filmers weren’t aware of it. the ones i saw looked like in the video i mentioned above. that also is not an evidence for the existence of chemtrails.
two days ago i saw clouds illuminated by the sun with pink and bright green stains on them after heavy air traffic. i couldn’t believe my eyes … ok, so you tell me those stains were caused by ice crystals. btw i could claim anything, i could be a liar.
another strange thing is a dry cough some people have. it is not like a cold, it feels like edema in the bronchia. after days of crazy air traffic it feels like someone peels your throat with a knife. a friend of mine who thinks i’m a kook told me lately that he nearly puked out his lung when he went to work by bicycle one morning. he told me that he thinks some times that something ‘is wrong with the air’. he said that it made him think about the crazy conspiracy theory i told him about. we had the same symptoms on the same days during a time we hadn’t met for weeks. the funny thing is that i could describe his exact symptoms after he told me about it…

Yours is about the best letter I’ve had so far. Perhaps a dozen have written to me, (and I have a couple of friends now as a consequence).
But yours ain’t bad.
About my “special friend” nicscics…
Everything he has published has been discredited and debunked. It’s all lies. He has published so many lies that he deserves special treatment, and he’s going to get it from me in the fullness of time. The “report” was a complaint about “chaff” disrupting weather radar which was deliberately and cynically mis-translated into a “chemtrail” issue. Not everything on the web is true, and in the case of “chemtrails” nothing is EVER true.

spoctalk

5,000m high “chemtrails”? As I said, try to verify it. (It might be technically possible for that to occur on a cold day, close to the poles!)
With a standard telephoto/camera combination it IS possible to calculate the range from the image size. You just need a “dangleometer” (plumb-bob/protractor) to give you the camera angle, and Bob’s your uncle. “Contrailscience.com” (a “debunker” site!) gives you the why and the wherefore.
The contents of “chemtrails” can only be proved by catching the stuff at 35,000ft and taking it quickly back to a lab for analysis. As I have said before, you have to use TWO synchronized cameras, (and TWO independent monitoring witnesses) and make sure that NEITHER the SAMPLE nor the EQUIPMENT leaves the VIDEO FRAME until analysis is COMPLETE and the FIGURES DISPLAYED.
CHAFF is a complete red herring. It won’t make you any more ill than your aluminium saucepan (rhubarb! whoops!) but you know what I mean.
So are ISOLATED MINOR INCIDENTS. THEY are NOT part of some GLOBAL “conspiracy”!
Plane emergencies are sometimes caused by passengers….
Sun-dogs are an ICE refraction/interference phenomenon. They have been noted for thousands of years. They DO happen WITHOUT any aircraft “connection”. They are a natural phenomenon.
href=”http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halosim.htm”>http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halosim.htm

They CANNOT happen with metal compounds, or dusts, which break down the crystal-forming. I NOW live in the Canaries; we quite often get beautiful high-altitude pearlescent clouds, but never when we have a KALIMA, which is a dust-laden wind from the Sahara. The KALIMA turns our complete world SEPIA MONOCHROME – we get “Photoshopped”! But no halos or sundogs while that happens.

halo

I LEFT Britain (North London – Home Counties) because since about 1995 I found it increasingly difficult to breathe. The two things I couldn’t live with were POLLEN and PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG.
You should research how dangerous these two things are in combination, and consider their prevalence, and then their RELEVANCE to “chemtrail” debate. I agree with you, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR AIR.
Since I moved in 2002 I have been perfectly fit and well… yet I live close to a busy airport (they climb past my window here 300M to my left and 300M up!), and seven miles up over my head I CAN see persistent contrails – sometimes…
And I live where a desert meets the sea. There’s NO TRACE either of pollen or photochemical smog… and there’s NOTHING WRONG WITH MY AIR EITHER…
i also see where planes normally fly and have to say that the suspected planes don’t have air corridors, they appear everywhere. you look in one direction and see planes fly back and forth leaving a con-(chem?)trail grid. and the next days there is no plane at all in the same direction.
i cannot quite imagine who would do that, how they do that nearly everywhere and why they would do it. i am usually quiet about chemtrails, it only makes ppl think i’m crazy. but yes, i do think something strange is going on. i also admit that there is a lack of hard evidence for the existence of chemtrails. even though it is verified that it DID happen doesn’t necessarily mean it happens everywhere.
so i don’t think everybody has to share my opinion on this. as far as you are concerned: you only seem to accept facts that support your theory (chemtrails=bs). many chemtrail whackos also only accept facts that support their theory. it it strange that you invest so much time to argue with ppl who think chemtrails do exist. if someone has beliefs i do not share, i think it’s not my business. i also think it’s arrogant to think your theories resemble objective reality.

You may think my behavior arrogant, but that is because you mistakenly believe me to believe in a “theory”. I don’t. I understand the scientific basis for your belief, while you do not. You need to consider the “observer effect”. You only see what you’re looking at WHEN you’re looking at it. You only see planes WHEN they are laying contrails on a blue sky day WHEN the stratosphere is (invisibly) saturated. THAT is WHEN you remember them… The “Grid” of trails is a “print-out” consequence of CROSSING SHUTTLE ROUTES. It will appear at a different part of the sky (on wet blue-sky days!) because the stratosphere SPEED and DIRECTION vary ALL THE TIME. The plain facts are that you DON’T see the planes on a very dry blue sky day AT ALL (blue light scattering “removes” the plane, and the trail is tiny/non-existent). And, of course, you don’t see the planes at all on overcast days.

The general truth is that the SAME PLANES ARE FLYING THE SAME ROUTES ALL THE TIME. It’s the airline business.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sQNn1FbnEI&NR=1

Another general truth is that you haven’t yet thought properly and constructively about your perception. How you “trust” your vision (how can it be wrong?) but let it down with your conclusion (you were crucially unaware of OTHER FACTS). Does the Sun go round the Earth? What do your EYES tell you?
The logic of TELLING people this is that while people confront a COMPLETELY NOEXISTENT PROBLEM the REAL PROBLEMS are UNADDRESSED. Pollen/photochemical smog CONTINUES to KILL PEOPLE, and the PTB’s REAL way of shafting YOU remains undetected…  In the terms of having a REAL, PRACTICAL, AND FUNCTIONING SOCIAL CONSCIENCE, people who adhere to the “chemtrail” theory are WORSE THAN USELESS. I’m quite happy to tell such people so…

 bonkers22

 Remember “don’t get me wrong. i’m not fanatical about chemtrails, just curious. i haven’t reached a final conclusion yet”?
Well our hero SCHNARCH keeps an open internet diary, from which I quote:
Jan 16 2008 After seeing a sundog aka parhelion after heavy chemtrail activity over leipzig/germany (it looked like in this vid), i wanted to know what that is all about. is it a natural phenomenon that happens once in a while or is it caused by chemtrails? many ppl posted their captions of sundogs and halos, few noticed the chemtrails in their vids. the only videos without a chemtrail haze were taken near the south pole. here are a few examples of sundog and 22 degree halo vids clearly showing chemtrails, yet the filmers of these vids ignore them. He also noticed the connection between sundogs and chemtrails, he calls it ‘magic rainbow’. Are chembows the same phenomenon as sundogs and halos? what causes these strange rainbows? ice crystals (natural) or chemtrails?”

I TOLD HIM DUSTS PREVENTED CRYSTAL FORMATION!

.

“Today I noticed little activity over my hometown, until the blue sky showed, but it wasn’t there to stay. Many planes appeared and spread their haze. I don’t need to look up into the sky to see what’s happening. There’s a stinky smell outside and i feel it in my throat. I noticed these irritations before I knew about chemtrails. the way most ppl think about this phenomenon makes me think i’m nuts or paranoid sometimes. But i’m afraid i’m not. I think it’s real. some planes are flying so low I can’t imagine it’s cold enough for contrails to form at all. After seeing three sun dogs in one week, many u-turns of planes, planes leaving chemtrails despite flying at a low altitude (<3000m/ 10000ft). the whole thing still gets me thinking.
Jan 17 2008 It is hard to find reliable information about chemtrails in Germany. Of course many ppl take photos and videos. but there is little confirmed information about chemical or biological fall-out analysis. Most websites about chemtrails in Germany are full of esoteric/spiritual stuff and ufo-stuff. few ppl take this issue seriously, most will ridicule the whole thing. it is unimaginable to most that the government is spraying us like bugs. If you want to share a good laugh with friends, tell them about chemtrails. to have some hard evidence for chemtrails would be nice. Carnicom or Rense seem to be pretty good, but the ppl over here in Germany won’t relate to that. The US isn’t Germany (they think). The part of the population who are aware of chemtrails are a lost minority. If only a few people know about this, it’s useless.
Jan 18 2008 ‘no fucking marking on that muthafucker’ … lol, unmarked planes all over the planet. Does anybody know the low-flying sausages with the fuselage that appears to be very thick compared to the wings? They produce either clouds or nothing. I’d love to shoot down one of them with a stinger just to see what’s in it. The ‘sausage’ plane i was referring to reminds me of an airbus A300-600ST, tho i’m not sure. it’s a cargo plane. Wikipedia says only five of them were built.”

IT’S AN AIRBUS FUSELAGE TRANSPORTER!

.

“Jan 20 2008 Maybe i’m wrong, but yesterday i saw a plane that looked like this on my way home from work. it was flying pretty low (app. 10000ft), all of a sudden it left a chemtrail that turned into a lasting cloud and flew on without any contrail at all. i saw planes like that fly along chemtrails that were sprayed before without leaving a contrail at all. Is anyone familiar with this type of aircraft? Many of the chemtrails are sprayed by the notorious unmarked tanker planes. “

I TOLD HIM ABOUT BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING!

.

“Jan 20 2008 Interestingly chemtrails appear very often in the afternoon and in the evening. this increases the humidity in the troposphere and keeps the ground level from cooling down. yesterday i read a statement by a meteorologist on a german page, who suggested that planes should fly 6000ft below cruising altitude to avoid the forming of contrails that increase the humidity of the troposphere/ stratosphere. that means that chemtrails seem to cause local warming where they occur.”

I TOLD HIM THAT HUMID CONDITIONS CAUSED PERSISTENT TRAILS!

.

“Jan 24 2008 I will never leave the house without my camera again. Yesterday i saw clouds lit by the sun, they had red and green stains … the sun wasn’t emitting much light in the red spectrum at that time. btw yesterday a friend of mine told me that he was going to work by bicycle yesterday in the morning. He said that he almost puked his lungs out for no reason … ‘something’ was wrong with the air … made me think about your paranoid conspiracy theory’ – lol. What is going on? WHO wants to weaken or kill us? We are really getting hammered with chemtrails at the moment. Maybe 80% of the weather is engineered right now.
Feb 10 2008 Check this out. GOt EM! CHEMTRAILS ON GERMAN TV. I know this one. The debunkers always say ‘it’s only chaff, chaff is a red herring, blabla’. I don’t know why the military should be using chaff nowadays, you can’t fool modern radar with it.”

YOU CAN!

.

“Other debunkers say that the phantom clouds on the weather radar attracted attention because they were NOT visible as opposed to the chemtrails which are visible. dunno. Since I noticed that small metallic particles are everywhere (windows, windshields, even in the dust on my furniture) I need no more proof. I also saw planes spraying at ridiculously low altitude (15000ft/5000m).
Feb 22 2008 I just posted a video about chemtrails over Leipzig. in the videos you can see sun dogs, a 22 degree halo, upper tangent arc and a circumzenithal arc – caused by chemtrails. At the end of the video there is a spray plane flying low in the evening sun – with 30x zoom. It does have wings, webfairy.
Feb 28 2008 It would makes sense if the sundogs were related to chemtrails.  Especially if the dense chemtrails contained heavy metals that the sun was reflecting off of.
Mar 7 2008 Persistant contrails do also occur naturally but not that many, not that often. Sometimes they spray the whole day and sometimes they only spray assault-like for 30 minutes or so. Strange. I wonder which planes they are using. Sometimes i see 747s. I really think we live in a strange age. i am waiting for major changes, but maybe it is stilla couple of decades away from now.
Mar 10 2008 I posted them and some shill came right out of the woodwork. The links are dead. At least they smell funny.”

Smell funny? 🙂

SOCRATIC INTERLUDE

There was a brief moment when I pm’ed Socrates (of ‘All Aircraft are Not Involved’) and he pm’ed me back with what seemed to me a gracious reply, and we were all set for an interesting dialogue from opposite ends of the table, so-to-speak. But it was not to be:
Socrates
This could be a breakthrough proving disinformation thus proving chemtrails. For why would such efforts be taken to alter the contents of books to make it seem that commercial aircraft can create chemtrails and always have and thus chemtrails are contrails???
The focus returns to the Epoxynous character, now known for spamming youtube and having a disinformation website named Contrail Science. This is no obvious scammer like “KevinMartin” who offers enigmas in the form of convolution. This guy works with subtlety.
I took care of this guy last year. For another one of these types of videos, it turned out that every example he found was from military aircraft.
Now he has made a video alleging to have found chemtrailed skies from 1972. I used a proxy to get into Carnicom’s where I found out about this. The hat tip goes to Vericarl, who by chance has been accused by Megasprayer of being my sock puppet. There was only one other thread that seemed interesting. Day Glo, the voice of reason, deleted her posts, so I don’t know what it was about. But I think it was similar to her previous types of posts pointing out crazy ideas that make chemtrails look like an internet hoax.
I believe a few of us have made a difference. I believe that despite the fact that the major chemtrail boards have been rigged, a few of us have gotten the word out that it is not outrageous to believe in chemtrails. Maybe Day Glo saw my post slamming Kathaksung before it was deleted and I was banned. Perhaps Day Glo is for real and is starting to realize that Cliff Carnicom is part of the problem.
Epoxynous/Contrail Science is a Patrick Minnis mouthpiece.

( For details of Patrick Minnis read my blog “Penrod – Debunking Chemtrail Debunking Debunking” – https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/26-penrod/ )
They are admitting that we are seeing what Minnis refers to as contrail outbreaks. These guys are going way out of their way to try to make chemtrails look kooky. They then have Deborah, Chem11, Arcadia Ego, and BigBunny spreading the disinfo that chemtrails are contrails. This has been an elaborate script covering many years, around nine to be exact.
There is even the same kind of nonsense going on at Chemtrail Central with someone named Free World Order, but I digress.
I am not sure why two books would have the same isbn number. Perhaps that isn’t a big deal. I don’t know. It could have been a typo or it might mean something.
But unless the Italian chemmies are plants, some form of strawmen, they have located the book Epoxynous used for his video. The book has obviously been altered where the photos used by Epoxynous are located. The only thing I can think of is that the Italian chemmies are fakes, and it will be proven that they scripted this whole thing, that they are the disinfo strawmen to boost Epoxynous’ credibility.
However, the only thing I see from their youtube page that doesn’t add up is that the guy “TankerEnemy” wrote that he is censored on his own pages. Yet right in the comments, there he is. Controlled opposition is a problem we must keep an eye out for. But nonetheless, please check this out. It sure looks like Epoxynous and many others have been busted for being spooks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM75WU-ko9U
TankerEnemy
We found these kind of anomalies not long after a symposium of C.I.C.A.P. (italian debunkers). During the conference, Simone Angioni, an italian chemist, (as well as component C.I.C.A.P.), showed this book with the same strange details. Obvsiouly he showed it trying to demonstrate that hours-persistent-contrails ever existed. We know it’s a lie then we purchased the same volume and found what we let anybody see in this video. Some pages were torn and replaced with other different ones. Somebody manipulated a number of original informations of this book, “Clouds of the World”. Ask yourself: WHY?

anthony.r.duncan (that’s me, folks!)
 socrates: This could be a breakthrough proving disinformation thus proving chemtrails. For why would such efforts be taken to alter the contents of books to make it seem that commercial aircraft can create chemtrails and always have and thus chemtrails are contrails?
I wouldn’t be so hot to trot if I were you. For you are taking the words of a proven hoaxer as truth.
Quote: The focus returns to the Epoxynous character, now known for spamming youtube and having a disinformation website named Contrail Science. This is no obvious scammer like “KevinMartin” who offers enigmas in the form of convolution. This guy works with subtlety.
Yes, he subtly asks for PROOF.
Quote: I took care of this guy last year. For another one of these types of videos, it turned out that every example he found was from military aircraft.
The early persistent trails WERE from military aircraft. They were the only planes carrying people photographing aircraft. When civil aviation began to expand (from a size fifty times smaller than the present) the people inside weren’t taking pictures of the trails that these aircraft were making.
Quote: Now he has made a video alleging to have found chemtrailed skies from 1972.
Of a book (showing persistent contrails). I’ve seen this. Look, Socrates, I’ve seen (in the late forties!) newspaper and magazine pictures of persistent trails myself. This horse doesn’t run.
Quote: I believe a few of us have made a difference. I believe that despite the fact that the major chemtrail boards have been rigged, a few of us have gotten the word out that it is not outrageous to believe in chemtrails.
I don’t know if the major chemtrail boards are rigged. I’ve been ejected from YouTube, David Icke, and Outlaw. If anything, the rigging’s the other way.
Quote: Epoxynous/Contrail Science is a Patrick Minnis mouthpiece. They are admitting that we are seeing what Minnis refers to as contrail outbreaks. These guys are going way out of their way to try to make chemtrails look kooky.
If aviation’s increased by fifty times since the fifties, the aircraft engines are putting fifty times more water into the air. If trail times reflect the humidity of the air they are dumped in (which they must!), then trail length and sizes must also increase. There’s a million tons of water added to the air each day. This is a tiny proportion of the amount that is already up there, but these trails are the most dense where the atmosphere is at its coldest, which is at the tropopause, approximately 26,000 feet up in the central US. Contrail ‘outbreaks’ must increase as air travel increases. It is atmospheric science. There is no “maybe” here.
Quote: They then have Deborah, Chem11, Arcadia Ego, and BigBunny spreading the disinfo that chemtrails are contrails. This has been an elaborate script covering many years, around nine to be exact.
If all scientists say the same thing, it doesn’t have to be “to a script”, does it? It is just that they share the same understanding. If you were to say “the Sun goes round the Earth”, then a lot of people would disagree with you, but not to a script!
Quote: But unless the Italian chemmies are plants, some form of strawmen, they have located the book Epoxynous used for his video. The book has obviously been altered where the photos used by Epoxynous are located. The only thing I can think of is that the Italian chemmies are fakes, and it will be proven that they scripted this whole thing, that they are the disinfo strawmen to boost Epoxynous’ credibility.
Those “chemmies” are crooks, and doing what they always do – LIE. They are responsible for photoshopping a Boeing 777LR CG test prototype interior with a “hazmat inside” sign, and rostrumming this photo (freely available from airliners.net) into the “Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer” video. My challenging this YouTube video got me thrown off YouTube, so i) the world’s not rigged against you, and ii) they are lying bastards who’ll do anything to further their malicious agenda. These guys are working beyond the Hanlon’s Razor mentioned in my signature – they know exactly what they are doing. And so do I.
Quote: However, the only thing I see from their youtube page that doesn’t add up is that the guy “TankerEnemy” wrote that he is censored on his own pages. Yet right in the comments, there he is. Controlled opposition is a problem we must keep an eye out for. But nonetheless, please check this out. It sure looks like Epoxynous and many others have been busted for being spooks.
TankerEnemy is simply lying, and you know that when you lie, the problem is that you have to remember the list of the lies you make, and trot them out to order. If you keep on doing that, you end up falling off your self-made cliff.
TankerEnemy: We found these kind of anomalies not long after a symposium of C.I.C.A.P. (italian debunkers). During the conference, Simone Angioni, an italian chemist, (as well as component C.I.C.A.P.), showed this book with the same strange details. Obvsiouly he showed it trying to demonstrate that hours-persistent-contrails ever existed. We know it’s a lie then we purchased the same volume and found what we let anybody see in this video. Some pages were torn and replaced with other different ones. Somebody manipulated a number of original informations of this book, “Clouds of the World”. Ask yourself: WHY?
I’ve already answered his question.
socrates
I’ve had some concerns with the big forum he is affiliated with. They seem to have stuff on orgone and ufos, for a few examples. But I don’t know Italian, so it’s not something I have access to figuring out. That all the early evidence of aircraft induced white-outs are from military aircraft implies that such evidence is useless. Plus, those white-outs don’t look like those that showed up around the year 2000 or a bit earlier.
We’ve also already heard all the explanations from the closed-minded debunker side. Increased air traffic. More pollution particles in the air. New turbo engines. It’s gotten very stale.
Your horse seems to be one that keeps running in the stratosphere despite the consistent claims of witnesses that the white-outs are being created much lower than that.
I’m not saying for sure that the book in question was tampered with, but it sure looks like it may have happened.
It’s good that you were banned from youtube. No one likes to read spam.
You are a broken record. I was in the trenches and figured out a lot about fake chemmies named Deborah, Chem11, BigBunny, Arcadia Ego, Wayne Hall, Lou Aubuchont and many more. But oh no, according to you, it appears that I am just smearing them because they disagree with me. And real scientists agree with them! So it doesn’t even matter, according to you, if a sophisticated fake chemmie/fake debunker script has been uncovered.
In a controlled opposition, discrepancies are planted for the scripted foes to debunk. The result has been nothing but noise. Real people have been shamed out of participating. There’s no need for real people in such discussions. Lou Aubuchont is a nutjob? Have Jay Reynolds point that out. Carol Rosin is in all likelihood a cointelpro plant in the peace in space movement? Have ContrailScience point it out. God forbid the few real chemmies who refused to give up have been the ones to clean up the whole stinking disinfo ship.
This forum wasn’t established so people like yourself could show up and change the tempo. Your past spamming attempts and bullying efforts are taken into consideration when reading these present efforts.
As for David Icke and the Outlaw Forum, those are two of the worst websites on the whole internet. Why you would want to post there is beyond my imagination. I can see how Uri stayed on a fair bit to set the record straight about the neo-nazi ideology being spammed, but for you to say you are such an intellect, yet post at those kinds of places, is hard to make sense of.
Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies.
The preponderance of evidence shows that a “chemtrails are kooky” script has been put in place. There is something referred to as concern trolling. Folks will make it appear that they are one of the good guys. They will post things that make sense in order to gain the reader’s confidence. But what goes on with such folks is a confidence game.
I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look like things are working out here. Nothing personal, but I’m starting to remember how annoying you can be.
Take my advice and go to DebateBothSides. I kind of don’t want you here.
 
 anthony.r.duncan
socrates
: those white-outs don’t look like those that showed up around the year 2000 or a bit earlier.
They look exactly the same to me.
Quote: Increased air traffic – stale.
Truth seems stale to you?
Quote: consistent claims of witnesses that the white-outs are being created much lower than that.
But not one proof, with all those videocams…
Quote: It’s good that you were banned from youtube. No one likes to read spam.
Policemen are nasty people that attack burglars. That seem reasonable to you?
Quote: figured out a lot about fake chemmies – according to you, it appears that I am just smearing them
Really? Does it? Did I say so?
Quote: because they disagree with me.
How could they possibly do that?
Quote: So it doesn’t even matter, according to you, if a sophisticated fake chemmie/fake debunker script has been uncovered.
A script using scientific truth? NO – it doesn’t. I quote: “Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies.”
Quote: In a controlled opposition <snip> whole stinking disinfo ship.
I can appreciate your concern about that. It’s the mess we have to swim in. I don’t give a monkey’s fart for such stupid shenanigans – my only concern is science and logic. It seems to me that arguments using these two themes can continue unobstructed through the above-mentioned crap.
Quote: This forum wasn’t established so people like yourself could show up and change the tempo.
Gosh. I know what that is code for.
Quote: Your past spamming attempts and bullying efforts are taken into consideration when reading these present efforts.
You seem keen to define what I’m doing here as some pre-arranged agenda. If a LIAR sets up business in YouTube, is that OK? If someone calls out the lie, is that SPAM?
Quote: As for David Icke and the Outlaw Forum, those are two of the worst websites on the whole internet. Why you would want to post there is beyond my imagination. I can see how Uri stayed on a fair bit to set the record straight about the neo-nazi ideology being spammed, but for you to say you are such an intellect, yet post at those kinds of places, is hard to make sense of.
Three days at Icke?  Setting the record straight about CTs and Evolution was wrong when I did it in Outlaw – yet Uri was OK in the same activity re NeoNazis? Whoa! Did I call myself an intellectual?
Quote: Just because someone gets caught in lies, does not mean everything they post is lies. The preponderance of evidence shows that a “chemtrails are kooky” script has been put in place. There is something referred to as concern trolling. Folks will make it appear that they are one of the good guys. They will post things that make sense in order to gain the reader’s confidence. But what goes on with such folks is a confidence game.
I think you’re succombing to paranoia here. If you feel in advance you are going to lose an argument with me, and it makes you wish to repel me, you should ask yourself why. If I am about to win an argument by reason alone, then as a reasonable man you should anticipate that possibility with pleasure. Otherwise what else is there? Unreason and fear?
Quote: I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look like things are working out here. Nothing personal, but I’m starting to remember how annoying you can be. Take my advice and go to DebateBothSides. I kind of don’t want you here.
Well, I assume that means you don’t want to consider reason, science and logic. There hasn’t been anything like that from you so far. It’s strange, but try as I might, I just don’t see you as malicious.
————————————————————————————-
Hanlon’s Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com/about/
https://jazzroc.wordpress.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/jazzroc
http://www.esnips.com/web/Beachcomber-Classics

big_smile

And THEN I was gone! Of course, a post followed my last, and it was this:

Re: Jazzroc is Disinfo by socrates on Sat Feb 28, 2009 wrote:
I’m surprised you haven’t looked more into this rather than the dead-end chemtrails versus contrails debates. It’s like with global warming. The deniers trot out their small list of scientists and political operatives in an attempt to turn the undebatable into an enigma. I think it’s fairly accepted that Frankensteinian geoengineering ideas are no good. But there has been a push to cover up the Dr. Evil part of it, from Paul Crutzen to guys like Wigley and Benford.

socrates

anthony.r.duncan wrote:
A year and a half ago I knew nothing at all about “chemtrails”. These names I don’t know.

socrates wrote:
His claim of being an anarcho-socialist
(SYNDICALIST) or whatever rings hollow. He also claims to be a buddhist atheist. Uri called him out good on that one. If one doesn’t get caught up trying to read his headache slice and dice hatchet jobs on folk’s posts, you can see that he is working scams. Useful idiot or paid disinfo? Those are the only two choices I see.

Jazzroc is the debunker version of Halva {“Wayne Hall”}. Stalinists, anti-social, dogmatic, utterly sporadic. A normal debunker would be cool. Closed-minded debunkers out of the cookie cutting university will not do. He chops and sautees everyone’s posts out of context (untrue). As someone else said, he is a time waster. Sorry about that Uri. Feel free to pm me if anyone else you know is a suspected troll. Though now I probably sound just like all this astroturfing Kos Kop/troll pack paranoia. This was/is an interesting thread. It’s as if he picked the most normal looking one to newbies to disrupt and derail. Or he has some severe anti-social skills.

I think he’s a spook. How could he say he never heard of Paul Crutzen? Hey Uri, then people like us get called troublemakers for just being down-to-earth and telling it like it is. The final straw was seeing how he was discussing Paul Crutzen with one of the only normal posters there (untrue). But earlier in this thread, he claims to have never heard of Paul Crutzen. He really is fairly dumb as a debunker. His talk of the stratosphere was ridiculous, as if chemtrails are being witnessed from aircraft in their cruising elevations. (They are!)

He could very well be paid disinfo, in my humble opinion.

He wasn’t the possessor of a “humble opinion”. He thought he knew enough science, when he thought that aircraft cruised in the troposphere, and couldn’t accurately state or recollect things either…

Who is Paul Crutzen? I shall have to go and check…

Ah…

Curriculum Vitae of Prof. Dr. Paul J. Crutzen
Born: December, 3, 1933 in Amsterdam, Holland.
Family status: Married, two children.
Academic Studies:
Civil Engineering, 1951-1954, Amsterdam, Holland.
Academic Studies and Research Activities 1959-1973 at the University of Stockholm, Sweden.
M.Sc. (Filosofie Kandidat), 1963.
Ph.D. (Filosofie Licentiat), Meteorology, 1968,
Title: “Determination of parameters appearing in the ‘dry’ and the ‘wet’ photochemical theories for ozone in the stratosphere”, Examiner: Prof. Dr. Bert Bolin, Stockholm, Sweden.
D.Sc. (Filosofie Doctor), 1973, Stockholm,Sweden,
Title: “On the photochemistry of ozone in the stratosphere and troposphere and pollution of the stratosphere by high-flying aircraft”, Promoters: Prof. Dr. John Houghton, FRS, Oxford, and Dr. R.P. Wayne, Oxford.  (Ph.D. and D.Sc. degrees were given with the highest possible distinctions).
Employment:
1954 – 1958: Bridge Construction Bureau of the City of Amsterdam, Holland.
1956 – 1958: Military Service, The Netherlands.
1958 – 1959: House Construction Bureau (HKB), Gaevle, Sweden. 1959 – 1974: Various computer consulting teaching and research positions at the department of Meteorology of the University of Stockholm, Sweden, Latest positions: Research Associate Professor.
1969 – 1971: Post-doctoral fellow of the European Space Research Organization at the Clarendon Laboratory of the University of Oxford, England.
1974 – 1977: Research Scientist in the Upper Atmosphere Project, National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), Boulder,Colorado, USA. Consultant at the Aeronomy Laboratory, Environmental Research Laboratories, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Adminisitration (NOAA), Boulder, Colorado, USA.
1977 – 1980: Senior Scientist and Director of the Air Quality Division, National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), Boulder, Colorado, USA.
1976 – 1981: Adjunct professor at the Atmospheric Sciences Department, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado.
1980 – 2000: Member of the Max-Planck-Society for the Advancement of Science and Director of the Atmospheric Chemistry Division, Max-Planck-Institute for Chemistry, Mainz,  Germany.
1983 – 1985: Executive Director, Max-Planck-Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany.
1987 – 1991: Professor (part-time) at the Department of Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago, USA.
Since 1992: Professor (part-time), Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, La Jolla, USA.
1997 – 2000: Professor (part-time), Utrecht University, Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Sciences, The Netherlands.
Since November 2000: Emeritus.

Scientific interests of Prof. Dr. Paul J. Crutzen:
Global modelling of atmospheric chemical processes (2-D, 3-D) for troposphere, stratosphere and lower mesosphere.
Interactions of atmospheric chemistry with climate.
Studies of the potential role of halogen photochemistry with ozone in the marine boundary layer.
Tropospheric chemistry, including the role of biomass burning in the tropics and subtropics.

Gosh! Another no-good washout who doesn’t match up to socrates‘ standards, in spite of his Nobel Prize. Watch out, folks…

nobel

NOW I know about Paul Crutzen! 

So what’s with this guy SOCRATES?

Well, for sure he never passed Science at any level. In his world  atmospheric physicists and Nobel Prize-winners are simply other devious pervs like himself, with subtle and secret agendas.

The institutions they work for are merely tools of the powers-that-be, and the not-too-bright serfs that work under them, agents, enemies.

With his x-ray vision, SOCRATES is the seer who sees through other peoples’ feeble fronts, and lets you know the truth.

Un – BAH – leavable! (What’s this bad taste in my mouth?)(spits)

SODA POP

“Chemtrails” ARE SODA POP. Put them through a carbon filter for sure, and each mile of “chemtrail” will get you a crate of soda pop.
The stratosphere is stable and layered like an onion with layers of differing humidities. A “saturated” layer will NOT reabsorb the trail, which will slowly fall and form stratus or cirrus cloud. That is what you see…
Want some soda pop? I’m nuts for soda pop! Are you? 

SOME & ALL

Some of these in this film might be contrails.
ALL of them.

There were also normal passenger planes at the same height which left no trails at all.
Planes flying at the same height are never less than TEN MILES apart. Otherwise they are 2000 feet higher or lower. That could be in a layer of a different humidity.

I had my reasons to suspect that they were chemtrails.
You left REASON, and BELIEVED them to be “chemtrails”.

reason

 SPACESUITS

Vapor trails (soda pop!) are made of fine crystals of ICE (it’s very cold up there!). IF THERE WERE other “particles” in them, their rate of descent (inches/hour!) coupled with the prevailing wind (always there!) would place their LANDING point OVER your HORIZON. How on earth is THAT a TARGETED WEAPON?

If it’s such a GENERAL attack, can’t you spot the perpetrators? They’ll be the ones wearing SPACESUITS! 

SR1419 pwns RudeDog

This took place in Contrailscience’s lively comments section on January 24th, 2009. I wish I’d written this. A lively and interesting debate precedes this too:

RUDEDOG: “Your constant attempts to avoid the issues and your failures to adress the questions as they are presented to you once again reveals your true intentions to minipulate and decieve people. If these are not your true intentions, then why are you so determined to descredit every person and try to disprove every claim that is ever reported by people who are genuinely concerned about what they know are not normal contrails.”

SR1419: “This is somewhat of an ad hominem attack and somewhat surprising as I have done nothing but directly address the issue – specifically addressing your questions. That you do not understand the answer is not my fault… at least not entirely.  Moreover, accusing me of deception and manipulation is as outlandish as it is funny as I have not deceived anyone nor manipulated anyone… I put forth opinions based on facts.

Again, it gets back to ignorance… or perhaps lack of knowledge is a better way to phrase it – when you say “what they know are not normal contrails.” …I believe “they” DO NOT know what normal contrails are!

If they believe that any contrail that does not dissipate after a few minutes is not a “normal” contrail – then they DO NOT know. If they believe that because it is 120 degrees on the ground then contrails cannot persist – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. If they do not know that a contrail can spread out into sheets of cirrus clouds and even induce additional cirrus cloud formation – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. If they do not know that propeller-driven planes can leave contrails – then they DO NOT know what a normal contrail is. This is not deception on my part, not manipulation on my part… this is lack of knowledge on their part.

…It is because of this lack of knowledge about all the variables that go into any given contrail… from the highly complex atmospheric conditions such as relative humidity, updraft velocity, and crystal concentrations necessary for contrails to form and persist, from the condensation nuclei needed, from the concept of ice supersaturation, to the types of ice crystals involved, to the effect the type of plane that is leaving the trail, to the type of engine the plane is using, to the particular mix of fuel any given plane has, to the speed of the plane… that I am highly skeptical about claims of “chemtrails”.

…Seeing a persistent contrail… filming it and posting it on YouTube claiming it is a “chemtrail” being sprayed is an exercise in speculation-based ignorance. Not a combination that leads to credibility.

Without knowing that there can be pockets of supersaturation leading to gaps in trails or that multiple planes leaving persistent contrails on perpendicular flight paths can resemble “grid” formations… or that any given moment there are over 5000 planes in the sky above the US, or that it is virtually impossible to determine the altitude of plane simply by looking up much less determine its logo from 7 miles away – or that any trail you see above you will not fall on you but instead drift for hundreds of miles with the upper winds… all this ignorance just adds fuel to the speculative fire.

Given the fact that “normal” contrails often behave EXACTLY like “chemtrails” supposedly do, it is impossible to definitively know that you are looking at one just by seeing it. Without sampling the trail in situ one cannot know for sure… and yet the vast majority of claims are based solely on visual “evidence”.

…And so, being that persistence is the only “evidence” offered…. and the fact that normal contrails can and do persist… and that most “chemtrail” believers are ignorant of a great deal of the information required to make an educated claim about what they think they see… it is easy to doubt their claims.

Do not worry about my motivation. Worry about facts. I am not out to “prove everyone is wrong”. I simply point out facts that are pertinent and show gaps in knowledge that – when filled – might lead to different conclusions and understanding. Insinuating that I am somehow complicit in some evil act simply because I do not agree with you is not a healthy argument.”

JazzRoc
“SR1419, the response you have made to RD above is so excellent that I have copied it into my blog, as a fine example of clarity, accuracy, and attention to detail. I hope you don’t mind.” 

RUDEDOG

“SR1419, If I understand you correctly, these are the facts as you see them regarding contrail formation:

*Contrails primarily consist of water vapor or ice crystals formed from water.
*In order for contrail to become persistent, the aircraft must be cruising at 40,000 feet or above.
*The ambient air temperature at that altitude must -40 degrees c or lower.
*The air must be ’super saturated’ to create the contrail.
*Regardless if the conditions at ground level are 120 degrees and dry or 10 degrees with high relative humidity, it has no affect on the conditions at 40,000 feet.
*Contrails are also formed behind propeller driven airplanes as well.

In regards to the last one, I cant find any data that shows propeller planes traveling at 40,000 feet or higher. I assume it would be dangerous since it might interfere with the jet aircraft. Or perhaps they were not designed to operate at that altitude. In any case, I have never seen one leave a contrail and I do not believe that they are a contributing factor to the plague in our skies.

There are literally thousands of pictures and videos that have been posted on the internet from legitimately concerned people that are posting them because they believe them to be something other than normal contrails. They believe this because they remember watching contrails being formed since they were children and the recent ones (in the last 10 years or so) do not behave or look like the contrails that they have come to know. You contribute this to increased air traffic and you claim that all of these people just weren’t paying attention prior to this or they just don’t remember contrails as clear as they think they do. That is merely an assumption on your part that is lacking any kind of science so that assertion is completely invalid. It is simply your own opinion. I personally remember very clearly watching contrails as a child and was very interested in them at an early age and have always been an avid sky watcher as have many many others that resent the fact that you do not believe this to be true.

There are many places on the internet to find these photos and videos. You tube is not the only place although it has many available to view. There are thousands of pictures and videos that have been submitted as ‘chemtrails’ which vary in geographic location around the globe, spanning all 12 months of the year when filmed and done so under all types of weather conditions and submitted by people for no other reason than looking for the truth. Out of all of these photos and videos, you claim that every one of them are nothing more than normal contrails that persist and spread out into cirrus clouds. This in turn means that you are claiming that all of these thousands of pictures and videos all have in common the above mentioned criteria necessary for the formation of persisting, spreading contrails.

You are claiming that every one of these photos and videos were taken at 40,000 feet (or pertinent to the latitude) and the temperature was -40 degrees or less and the air was super saturated at that moment in time. PROVE IT!

Certainly you must have proof of this in order to make such an affirmative bold statement. To call all of these people liars and to present your contrail explanation as the true facts and to portray the claims of the actual witnesses who were physically present during the incident as conspiracy theories or cases of mistaken identity.

The fact is, you have no proof of this. As a matter of fact, I am sure that I will be able to prove that some of them were in fact NOT filmed or photographed under the conditions necessary for the formation of a persistent ever expanding contrail cirrus cloud mutation. I will begin by seeking out the ones that have documented the date, time and location of the incident. Through some careful research, I will find out what the conditions were at that time and location and if the conditions could have supported the formation of lingering persistent thick ever expanding contrails, especially on a large scale as we see in so many of the photos and videos.

In the mean time, continue on with your campaign to deceive and dis-inform the unsuspecting population as you do. It is only a matter of time before that spiel has so many holes in it that the bottom will fall out.”

UNCINUS

“Rudedog, you seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding here. Nobody said contrails only form above 40,000 feet. All that was said was that if it was 120F at ground level then it can still be -40F at 40,000 feet.

Contrails can actually form at sea level if it is cold enough. There is a critical temperature that is required for contrails to form. This varies based on air pressure, which varies based on altitude. This is sometimes called the MINTRA level. At sea level this is about -11F, and about -40F at 34,000 See MINTRA here:

http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/54

MINTRA – To aid the forecasting of condensation trails emitted (or not) from high-flying aircraft, a line marking the critical temperatures (altitude dependent), above which trails are not possible, is marked on a tephigram . The values are approximately -24degC at 1000 hPa (i.e. roughly sea-level), -39degC at 250 hPa (34000ft / 10.4 km) and about -45degC at 130 hPa (50000feet/15km). Using the MINTRA line (as it has come to be called – based on experiments by JK Bannon during World War II with the piston-engined Spitfire), a forecaster will mark two further lines on a tephigram: MINTRA minus 11degC (A) and MINTRA minus 14degC (B). If the ambient temperature (from the tephigram air temperature plot) lies between (A) and (B), then short, non-persistent trails are possible. If colder than (B), then long, persistent trails should be expected. However, some note should be paid to the relative humidity – high values will tip the balance to trailing (or longer/persistent trails.), even with air temperatures warmer than (A); ultra-low rh% will reduce the risk of condensation trails – the design of engines will have an effect as well. In broad terms, warm Tropical Maritime airmasses with a high but cold tropopause will result in a good deal of trailing, whilst cold, polar air-masses with a low, relatively warm tropopause will seldom give rise to significant aircraft trails.

Super-saturation is only required for the contrail to spread out over several hours into a layer of cirrus cloud. No doubt the various different videos were filmed in various different conditions.

And contrails ARE also formed behind propeller driven airplanes, if they fly in a cold enough region. The first contrails were observed behind prop planes. Generally now though there’s not much point for a prop plane to fly high enough, so it’s unlikely that any contrails you see in the sky now are from prop planes (unless the weather is very cold).”

SR1419
“RD – Uncinus is correct… if it is cold enough contrails can form at ground level… much like exhaust from a car on a cold winter day… even persistent contrails can form at ground level.

“Supersaturation” refers to the air being supersaturated with respect to ice… look up “ice supersaturation” for more information. Since ice supersaturation areas can be quite large, persistent contrails often occur in clusters where many planes leave trails.

There are literally thousands of pictures and videos that have been posted on the internet from legitimately concerned people that are posting them because they believe them to be something other than normal contrails. They believe this because they remember watching contrails being formed since they were children and the recent ones (in the last 10 years or so) do not behave or look like the contrails that they have come to know.

I am sure “they” are legitimately concerned… that does not mean they can’t be wrong or can’t be ill-informed. Moreover, I never once called them liars. Do not put words in my mouth. I said they were ignorant of the information needed to truly know what they were looking at.

The FACT of the matter is persistent contrails DID EXIST when I, you and they were younger. The fact that you- as an “avid” skywatcher- do not remember them doesn’t mean it isn’t so. It was so. Uncinus’ many photos on this site should help clarify that. As this paper from 1970 will attest – persistent contrails that spread out, covering the sky in haze were very much a reality 30, 40, 50 years ago – perhaps not as common but very much a reality. I’m sorry if you do not remember them:

http://tinyurl.com/bypwmt (click on the PDF to read the paper)

As the author says:  “The writer himself has seen instances in which a single contrail seemed to grow until it became an overcast covering the whole sky.”

So, clearly…it was happening even if you do not remember.

Also – since it has been shown that persistent contrails are a result of normal aircraft use and have been a reality as long as aircraft have flown… then it is up YOU to prove that what you see in the sky is otherwise. The burden of proof is not on me… it is on those who claim that persistent contrails are something other than a normal result of plane flight.

That is where that pesky “evidence” comes into play. If all those legitimately concerned citizens are posting video of contrails that persist simply because they do remember them persisting when they were younger and therefore they must be part of a nefarious “spraying campaign” because they read it on the internet… well, then they are sorely mistaken and ignorant of the facts.

Where have I deceived or “dis-informed” anyone??? Alas, it is the “unsuspecting public” that has been deceived and misinformed by “chemtrail” theorists – claiming that any contrail that doesn’t dissipate is a “chemtrail”… and that contrails didn’t persist when they were younger. Those are utterly false claims.

Why do you keep trying to ascribe a motive to me? or why must I be out to deceive and “disinform”. Why can I not simply disagree with you?”

rudedog
SR1419, You say:”The fact that you – as an “avid” skywatcher – do not remember them doesn’t mean it isn’t so.”

If there was something to remember, I would remember it as clearly as I remember the other details of my lifelong experiences. So would everyone else that deliberately observed contrails in detail because they were fascinated by them.

You keep on insisting that every one of us have had some kind of blackout regarding contrail behavior when we were young. Tens of thousands of us have conveniently forgotten that particular part of our lifelong observances of jet contrails. One hell of a coincidence wouldn’t you say?

You attempt to debunk all chemtrail claims by referring to photos that uncinus has posted as so called evidence. The photos that you refer to are not convincing anyone that they have blocked that part of their memory out. They certainly are not ‘proof’ that what we are seeing today existed then either simply because you can not distinguish the difference. The fact of the matter is, they look like contrails by design. At least in the beginning stages anyway. If they did not resemble contrails do you think we would even be having this discussion? How is it that you can refer to a photo of something that you claim is a persistent spreading contrail from 30 or 40 years ago and then use that as your proof that there is no chemtrail spraying going on today? One has nothing to do with the other! Just because you say so doesn’t mean it is so.

Hypothetically speaking, if a series of planes were to release millions of gallons a clear liquid chemical that resembled drops of water does that mean that what we are seeing is ordinary rain? Of course not. If I were to use your logic then it must be ordinary rain because I can refer you to photos and documentation that says it has been raining just like that for my entire life. Since you can not tell the two apart by looking at photos or video, it means that to claim it is anything other than normal rainfall is a conspiracy theory.

Are you beginning to see how ridiculous your non-science is? Or are you just that ignorant of the fact that you or uncinus have not provided one shred of evidence that proves that any of the documentation submitted as chemtrails are nothing more than normal contrails. Just because you refer to a picture of a contrail does not make all things contrails. If they were just normal contrails this disinformation website would be non-existent.

I am afraid that the burden of proof is on YOU. People are providing photos and videos of the visual part of their chemtrail encounters and you are telling them that they are wrong. So where is your proof that they are all wrong? Shouldn’t you be able to back it up if you are going to contradict someone?

Uncinus
I don’t remember persistent contrails when I was a child. In fact I really only remember them from around 2006, I can’t say I recall ever seeing them before that time. Does that then mean that there were no persistent contrails before 2006?

rudedog, what year did you first notice them?

SR1419
Wow… not sure what to say to you RD… your twisted logic and refusal to acknowledge fact… and therefore reality… makes it hard to truly dialog.

Do you really believe that persistent contrails did not exist prior to you noticing them?

Did you read the paper I posted from 1970 where the author specifically describes contrails that persist, spread out and cover the sky in a haze? How do you reconcile that? Do you just ignore it? Was he lying? Is it planted disinfo??

What about this description also from 1970:

“The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.
[….]
Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occured on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By mid-afternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig. 2 an almost solid contrail sheet reported to average 500 m in depth.”

or this comment from 1981:

“Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus“”

or the time lapse photos posted here from 1970 – showing exactly the persisting and spreading YOU CLAIM did not happen back then:

http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

“How is it that you can refer to a photo of something that you claim is a persistent spreading contrail from 30 or 40 years ago and then use that as your proof that there is no chemtrail spraying going on today?”

I use it as proof – along with the peer-reviewed scientific data from that time – that persistent contrails DID EXIST prior to you noticing them. It is not proof that “chemtrails” do not exist but it is PROOF that persistent, spreading contrails did exist prior to you noticing them….

…which leads to the basis of your claim. You allege that because you didn’t notice persistent contrails until recently that they did not exist back then… and that is proof that they are not persistent contrails but “chemtrails”.

…but THEY DID EXIST prior to you noticing them… and thus NOTHING is different now accept perhaps the frequency. The behavior of the trail in the sky now is exactly as they were described and photographed 40yrs ago… but you want to say that they are somehow different and thus is “evidence”. In fact, they are not different, they are identical and thus claims of “evidence” are dubious at best.

Your only “evidence” is videos of persistent contrails… but since they have always had the ability to persist, it isn’t really evidence at all but instead utter speculation based on ignorance. Your analogy is false… an appropriate analogy would be if you said that the liquid coming out of the clouds is not rain but really powdered aluminum… and I asked you how you knew this and you said because you did not remember liquid falling from clouds before.

See how ridiculous your claim seems?

Because persistent, spreading contrails have been observed, studied and acknowledged for over 50 years the burden of proof is on YOU to show that they are really something other than the accepted scientific fact. If you cannot acknowledge the fact that persistent contrails that spread out covering the sky in haze DID EXIST prior to you noticing them then we are at an impasse and your refusal to accept reality is a deal-breaker as far as dialog is concerned.

Good luck with that.

rudedog
You guys can talk all day about how a contrail can persist and spread into a cirrus cloud and it doesn’t even matter if it is true or false.
Once again, it does not prove that it is what you are seeing on another persons video. You talk about screwed up logic. Where is the logic in that? There isn’t any.

You offer a description of a contrail as you believe it to be, therefore all other things in pictures and videos that look similar to your description of a contrail can not be anything else but a contrail? Yeah, you are mister logical and we are all to whacked out to hold a conversation with. Hokey dokey mister logical. You are right about one thing. An intellectual conversation is not possible with you if that is your definition of logic. By the way, where does one go to study for his masters degree in contrail science? Oh, why am I asking you guys? I forgot, you are only here moderating this website because you like to look at clouds as a hobby or something. You just reminded me of being back in school, except in school the teachers actually had earned some sort of a degree to show that they had mastered the field that they are teaching and are competent to pass that knowledge on legitimately and with unquestionable integrity.
If you can refrain from giving lessons on contrail 101 and actual provide some actual proof that all of the chemtrail pics and videos are only contrails them maybe you might actually gain some integrity too. So far all you have is that they look similar to contrails, which is to be expected. Remember, just because you say they are does not make them so. Another redundant lesson on the history of contrails does not provide the proof that is necessary either. Please! Haven’t you beat that horse to death?

Like I said, if you are going to tell someone that they are wrong, then be able to prove it with something other than your personal opinion. It’s getting old.

JazzRoc
No, what’s getting old is your continued refusal to be scientific, yet make assumptions and pronouncements on what is essentially a science topic.
It is YOU that has to back up the claim that contrails are other than water, not WE that have to prove that your baseless claim is false.
We have all the proof that we need: scientific paper upon paper quantifying the contents of contrails. What’s more, so have you. You just aren’t reading it, or maybe you aren’t capable of comprehending it.
Just consider the AMOUNT of trail material recorded for a typical trail: 16Kg per meter – from the paper “Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
“The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 16 Kg per meter.”
That means a 5000 kilometer flight (THROUGH SATURATED AIR) would put down 80,000 tons of trail material…
Whoa! Wait a minute! Isn’t a jumbo’s fuel load about 250 tons?
So where does the rest come from? Answer = OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE
IT IS ICE OUT OF THE AIR, RUDEDOG. AND A LOT OF IT. 

STEAM

“Think of it logically” – Take your own medicine

“How could steam last for hours up in the freezing cold?” – HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM. Exhaust steam at 2000 deg C COOLS to -40 deg C in TWENTY-THOUSANDTHS of a second. Having cooled to -40 deg C (it can be COLDER than that!) the steam is now ICE, in tiny flat crystals, looking like white smoke. The plane is travelling at 800 FEET per second so you see the trail appear SIXTEEN FEET BEHIND the engines. THAT ICE WON’T GO AWAY unless it can EVAPORATE into it. If the HUMIDITY of the air is 100% then the ice CANNOT EVER evaporate into the air.

“Ever seen steam last for hours on a cold day? No? Duh.” – I think you need to repeat “No. Duh” because your reasoning has just been DESTROYED!

“They ensure planes don’t cross paths” – FAR FROM IT. Do you know anything about airportS and flight systems? – Thousands of planes cross paths ALL THE TIME. That is WHY there is AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL.

“It’s not hard to figure out” – But a bit harder than YOU thought

“None of this has anything to do with chemtrails!!!” – TRUE.

THIS is REAL. “Chemtrails” aren’t. 

STERN’S “DUMBEST CONSPIRACY EVER”

Chemtrails: Strong Competitor for “Dumbest Conspiracy Theory Ever”
By Ray Stern in NewsThursday, Dec. 18 2008 @ 12:54PM

(This is such a huge post, chock full of misperceptions, misunderstandings and outright lies, that it’s going to be a while before it becomes completely rebutted. Probably a month or two…

But it will be. I have an absolute confidence, borne of two years experience now of NEVER finding anything that couldn’t be rebutted in chemtrail “truth”.)

pellat-stern

Most conspiracy theories are so ridiculous, it’s hard to choose which are the least plausible or which faces the higher mountain of opposing evidence. Some seem within the realm of the possible, such as the ones that surround the assassination of JFK, the Pearl Harbor attack or the murder of Princess Di. Others, like the absurd theories about the 9/11 attacks, rampant alien abductions, faked moon landings, Jewish world domination and Biblical creationism can be dismissed by reasonable people within minutes of hearing their proponents’ arguments.
The so-called “chemtrails” theory, espoused by Valley guitarist Carole Pellatt, lands solidly in the latter category. Simply put, the idea that secret agents are using jumbo jets to spray the whole world with toxins for some nefarious purpose is opposed by common sense, contrary evidence, lack of supporting evidence and sheer implausibility. The theory has at least a few dozen supporters who know how to use a computer. Our recent blog post about Pellatt and chemtrails has received 127 comments as of this morning. Most of the commenters are strong believers in the chemtrails conspiracy and took us to task for the minimal research we did before declaring the theory “debunked.”
We feel our level of research was far more than sufficient, given the subject matter. But we decided to spend another hour or so reviewing the post’s comments, reading some of the Internet reports — both pro and con — on chemtrails and e-mailing one of the ardent supporters of the theory for comment. We had an interesting conversation with Dave Mason of southern California, the person we e-mailed who uses the handle “freedomfighter4theplanet” for his blog comments. And we came to understand something about these chemtrail believers.Their real enemy isn’t the toxins they believe are being sprayed by waves of sinister jumbo jets.
What they are really scared of is skepticism. Mason, when confronted with a healthy dose of questions, seems to writhe on the phone like a vampire being dragged into sunlight. Our first question for Mason was why the government would be spraying people with poison. In a move typical of believers in disproven, illogical ideas, Mason tries desperately to change the subject. What he wants to talk about are his unending questions: Why won’t the government take his claims seriously? Why would a Raytheon-owned airplane working for the military fly in circles for hours without landing? Why can’t he inspect that airplane when it lands? Why would he be arrested if he threw chemicals out of his car window, yet no one seems to care that government jets are showering particles of heavy metals on people?

voodoo-1

When New Times attempted to show Mason some of his questions might have perfectly mundane answers — don’t some planes fly in circles to monitor weather? — Mason got upset. “It’s military — classified! Got it?” he pouts. When asked why he thinks the Raytheon airplane is suspicious, beyond the fact that it’s flying in circles, he hesitates to give an answer, perhaps wary of how corny it may sound. New Times presses, and Mason says the plane — which, admittedly, does bear the spooky name of “VOODOO1” — is suspicious “because we’re not allowed to look at this plane to see what it is doing.”
Finally, he admits he wants to see the plane because he thinks something “sinister” could be going on. “I think they are putting barium, aluminum and titanium into the atmosphere,” he says. “I think (VOODOO1) is one of the planes.” His theory for why “they” are putting the metals in the sky: To turn clouds into communications devices. Worldwide. “I think it’s the United Nations, not just the United States,” Mason says.

New Times points out there’s a big problem with this theory: Valley air quality monitors don’t show high concentrations of barium, aluminum and titanium particles in our air. Mason immediately changes the subject. Now he wants to talk about a government program to monitor clouds for the aerosols he believes are being sprayed. He points New Times to a government Web site for something with the ominous-sounding name of “Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign.” He urges us to look at the canister on the wing of an airplane in a picture on the Web site. But there’s nothing remotely scary about the canister, New Times tells him. The site says this equipment collects particles in the air to determine their effect on climate change. That’s a good thing, isn’t it? At that point, Mason grew hysterical and hung up on New Times. He proceeded to write a new comment on the blog post about Pellatt (his fifth? sixth?) claiming we’re a “lost cause.”
Pellatt wrote four comments on the post. In one, she claims we must be either “insane” or “in the paid service of the industrial complex.” In responding to one skeptical reader’s comment that one only need read a physics book to prove “chemtrails” is wrong, Pellatt’s comments show just how far deep she’s in: William, please give me the name of the book that proves there is no aerosol spray program…
Of course, like me, I know you checked into who the author, authors, or organization was that authored and published the book, and then checked them out to make sure they have no ties to the Government, National Science Institute, EPA, NASA, National Weather Service etc. Because we know that NASA – just go to their web pages – is the lead organization in the National Weather Service’s “Weather Modification Program”. That’s public knowledge. It’s only a conspiracy theory in the mind of ignoramuses.

Spiralboxes

Nowhere in any of the 127 comments do the supporters of the chemtrails conspiracy theory offer any evidence of their theory, nor do they even fully outline what that theory is. Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny. Creationists do this all the time, because saying you believe in the vague notion of “intelligent design” sounds a lot less nuts than saying you believe baby dinosaurs rode with Noah on the Ark. Some commenters presented what they see as evidence for the theory. For instance, “Doug” lists “facts” that include an alleged Wall Street Journal article about Russian “weather modification” experiments and the astonishing news that “almost all wildfires have been well documented as burning hotter and with more intensity than at any other time in recorded history.” No evidence is offered for the wildfire claim, which makes sense because the statement collapses under the weight of its own silliness.
What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense. As the picture at the top of this blog post shows, jet contrails have become ubiquitous with the huge increase of air traffic in recent decades of air traffic. The contrails cause more cirrus clouds in the sky, which trap heat and lead to more warming on the ground. There’s another real problem lurking in jet exhaust: Carbon emissions, which the world’s top scientists say are leading to global warming. Plus, piles of white lines cluttering up what would otherwise be a mostly blue sky could be considered a type of visual pollution — ugly, but not as disturbing as the rumbling noise pollution the engines also put out. But to look at the peaceful contrails floating in the sky most days and perceive them as some kind of death-rain attack by our own government — that’s just sad. — Ray Stern

Zret: The same old system: to defame the researchers, instead of trying to explain. Chemtrails are real and poisonous! Shame on you for this garbage.

Russell: It really is astonishing and sickening that large numbers of people will believe stuff like this despite the complete lack of evidence. In this day and age, the existence of people so gullible as to fall for outlandish drivel like “chemtrails” brings a tear to my eye. I blame the American “education” system for failing to perform its stated job in science education.

I. M. Looney: I had my carpets cleaned by ChemTrail and they came out great . . . oh wait, that was ChemDry. Maybe there WAS something in that cleaning solution!

Alan: Ray, At first I thought you were just an asshole. Thanks for proving it! “What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense.”
Explain my first sighting which took place in NYC on a very warm, dry summer day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaRVA1HKLiM  I find it hard to believe that only a handful of jet aircraft out of hundreds would leave such persistent contrails. Where’s your science now? You should have left well enough alone but you have challenged and insulted people who actually give a damn about our planet. Your dismissive attitude is self-serving and demeaning. I’m sure that you will be hearing from many more credible people on this subject!

Anon: Ever heard of Occam’s Razor? The simplest explanation is usually the best? After watching the fascinating youtube video, I have reached the conclusion that contrails are left behind by bored pilots playing tic-tac-toe.

Joya: Ray, You obviously have not witnessed, as I have, jets leaving normal contrails, which evaporate quickly, and planes spraying chemtrails, which last for hours, flying directly above me, at the same time. You have not witnessed, as I have, 3-4 Chemtrail planes for hours, flying, spraying then turning around and spraying some more and doing this all day long, in a sporadic and criss-cross patterns.
You have obviously not witnessed, as I have, heavy chemtrail spraying in an area without heavy commercial air traffic. You obviously have not experienced, as I have, the smell of these chemicals on heavy spray days, as I have and the pink rainbow like haze that they leave. Why also are there days now and then when there are no chemtrails, pure blue sky, yet there are contrails from regular commercial jets? You might want to do some eyewitnessing before writing your articles.

hepa

Why Not Test Yourself?: Ray, Do the hepa filter testing you have been advised to undertake by many people who wrote in response to the other article. It is not hard to do. Put the unit outside. Cut the filter after use underneath a lined sky into three pieces. Send each to a separate lab. What is so hard about that? I know you deem such totally unnecessary, because you are absolutely confident you have your answers already. But wouldn’t it be reeeeally something if the results you receive aren’t in reasonable harmony with air quality stats supplied by the, “official,” sources? There is no shortage of wild-eyed people on board the chemtrail train. Some people will latch on to something for dear life, and make it into a life itself, entertaining the most outlandish tangents. You’ve undoubtedly run across a number. But then there are the clear-eyed, exceedingly practical, and pragmatic. Who work for the so-called military industrial complex. Who know for a fact that aluminum and barium are injected in the atmosphere, by jet aircraft and on an on-going basis, in the interest of vastly improved satellite communications. If you do the testing, you will come across results that must be explained. There will be a direct disconnect between the data you will hold in your hands and that received by the standard sources you and nearly everyone else have come to rely upon for the safeguard of health. Please don’t dismiss what I’ve told you. If you assume that such particle dispersal may be taking place and that it’s O.K. because the government knows what it is doing, you need to know the amounts/percentages that end up in blood streams go far beyond the maximum toxic limits allowable. Alzheimer’s (aluminum directly linked) has risen, is striking younger people on a wider basis, and you will see yet wider swaths of populace segments regarding age spread occurring. Now it is possible that in the near future, with enough independent testing and enough of a ruckus raised, that such maximum allowable toxic limits may be changed upward to accommodate this new reality. But that would not alter the health effects.

Old Scientist : Skepticism is healthy. An open mind is as well, providing it is not leaking like a sieve. To find the balance is the key. Apply the scientific method. Don’t take any official experts’ word on this subject. Don’t take conspiracy theorists’ words on this subject. Physical evidence of particles is easily enough apprehended on an individual basis as long as you have a little $ to apply to the task. The patents for utilizing same are currently readily available from the U.S. Patent Office. Putting it all together is the tricky part. My own assessment is that the thirst for expanded knowledge and control have yielded yet more compromise in the the long-term health of the public as a whole and a perceptible downgrade in the immediate environmental quality of life for all. Just as the soldiers at the Smokey test in the Nevada desert weren’t told the truth, and denial by officialdom continued until the very last person died of leukemia, so it will be about the projects over the heads of Americans, and results that are already appearing today.

sebringcoupe: “It really is astonishing and sickening that large numbers of people will believe stuff like this despite the complete lack of evidence. In this day and age, the existence of people so gullible as to fall for outlandish drivel like “chemtrails” brings a tear to my eye. I blame the American “education” system for failing to perform its stated job in science education.”
It is really astonishing and sickening that you keep attacking us with the same old rhetoric and no solid facts. Stop it with the reverse psychology, it is YOU who is not providing the facts. Show us some INDEPENDENT sources that this in fact contrails (national institutes DO NOT count). And I like that word “outlandish” sounds like it is directly ripped from mainstream sources due to your lack of originality when it comes to childish insults.
To the propagandistic… erm I mean journalist: You are never going to debunk this if you keep coming off as a self absorbed prick, you must make a killing lying to the public. Once again you show you cannot stand actual thinking people so you resort to more rhetoric. You even stepped it up a few levels calling everyone who did their homework and ACTUALLY researched it (unlike yourself) dumb. What kind of journalism is this? You still have YET to provide facts but merely Bill O’Reilly style insults to your readers. Fortunately not ALL buy into this abusive propaganda. OH I know what’s next, you are going to completely ignore the facts again and continue to insult people. You are oh so too predictable. This is one topic you should have left alone if you cannot handle the pressure from it. @ I-M LOONEY: After that comment it sounds like you guzzled down that bottle of carpet cleaner. Better lay off that stuff it might cause you to leave comments that make absolutely no sense… oh wait.

 joya : Ray, you must be on the US Gov Dept. of Propaganda payroll and if you aren’t…. well then…you’re giving it away for free. and to russell: I have a degree from one of the Top 6 Science Universities in the world. If I have an orange and and someone tells me it’s an apple, I don’t need to prove it’s an orange, I just know!

Deb Tamb : Why would harmful aerosols and any toxins be released over/around my homeplace? I DON’T KNOW! That would be way too kooky! So, you “chemtrail skeptics” please consider the concerns of those who can not stop looking up at our beloved sky. I am certainly interested/curious about any aspects of this blatant weather manipulation but do not label me a conspiracy theorist!! Even if I’d never noticed a “chemtrail”,the resulting sky is absolutely undeniable. From my backyard and neighborhood I’m seeing the sky from around this location: at less than 20 miles from Camp David.  At less than 70 miles from D.C.  At less than 7 miles from Lambs Knoll.  At less than 18 miles from Fort Dietrick.  At less than 30 miles from Site R.

John Bonnema : Ray Stern, you remind me so much of the child who would clasp his hands over their eyes and then scream out “you-can’t-see-me!” Na, na, na, naaaa! You’re an ignorant man Ray. You’re only hurting yourself and your loved ones by failing to recognize the blatant poisoning in our skies. Go to 4:15 of this video and if you can tell us this is normal, then we’ll know how much of a feckless dolt you really are. youtube.com/watchv=11J_VopuDXc&feature=related

Clay Milfeld: I want some of what you’re smoking.

Carole Pellatt : Hello Ray, so you couldn’t take the heat of the responses after the last pathetically unscientific article you printed about me. You had to defer people’s attention away from those responses by creating another one. Still haven’t gone to my website have you? No, you’re a forum junkie. Still haven’t read any report on weather modification have you? Still haven’t read “Owning The Weather 2020”, have you? Still haven’t read any weather modification treaties, have you? Still haven’t read even one military budget-obviously. Still haven’t read any patents, have you? Still haven’t done a HEPA filter test, have we? Still haven’t checked the lab reports from air and water samples around the state, have we? Sad, sad, sad. You have nothing to say, nothing to offer anyone that is intelligent on the subject of aerosol experiments, and judging by some of the idiotic comments I see, every other “looney” who uses the term “chemtrails” associated with “conspiracy theory”, knows absolutely nothing about science.

I call it weather modification or electromagnetic experimentation. Chemtrails is your word Ray, not mine. GIVE ME YOUR PROOF RAY. You haven’t done one lick of research. I’ve been pretty cool up until now, but your articles are written like that of a school student who has never studied but is trying to fake a grade. Afraid of real science, are we? You keep saying we offer no proof of aerosol spraying-not chemtrails Ray, what is a chemtrail? I have no idea-only conspiracy theorists like yourself call them chemtrails to distract the public from the overwhelming physical evidence of aerosol spray programs-by the military, NASA,NWS, and the government’s own admissions and documentation.

You have become like a mosquito buzzing in someone’s ear. You have nothing intelligible to say, but your purpose is to try to irritate. That’s not a very nice energy to put out into the world. I don’t understand your hostility, your aggressive language, condescending attitude, and unwillingness to hold a true dialogue with someone purely for the purpose of an exchange of ideas.

Why does it upset you so that people are truly concerned about the poor quality of the air we are forced to breath in this city. And that most of it comes from airplanes? Why does that not even bother you?-That worries me-human to human. Why do you act like you care about nothing genuinely-other than your arguments? These things distress me.

Would you like to know how many people are currently without health insurance in this country? I can tell you. Would you like to know how many more people can’t feed their families because of the mess this economy has been allowed to slip into-partly by a sleeping press? Would you like me to tell you what it’s like for a woman in Bosnia to have to go to the Hague to testify about being a victim of mass torture and rape during the genocide? Would you like me to tell you about RAWA-the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan who bravely hide video cameras under their burkas and film human right abuses, and smuggle the film out of their country so the world may see and understand what’s really going on there? Would you like to know what it’s really like for workers in the industrial parks in China-I’ve been there, I can tell you. Do you know the circumstances that all had to be in place in order for the Rwanda genocide to blaze across that country,ripping it open into a frenzy of violence? And do you wonder what the international community was doing while it was going on? Would you like to know how much ground water in Phoenix has been polluted by corporations? Would you like to know what the number one cause of infant mortality in this country is? (It’s new). Would you like to know how many superfund sites there are in this city, state, or country? Do you want to know who learns faster, unilingual or bilingual children? Do you want to have a discussion about the laws of Eminent Domain? Or are these subjects boring or stupid for you to report on.

I mean what are you spending time doing Ray? If it were research, I would have some place to start to call what you have to say an intelligent argument. And I wouldn’t begrudge you our discussion because it would be centered on a subject matter, not on a person. So once again, you quote “comments” as your basis of argument. A verification that you all you want to do is argue Ray. If you wanted to know if there was an aerosol spray program, you would go to official documentation, not people’s “blog” comments. This is how you do your research? And your editors are fine with this?

Well Ray, it’s time to leave me out of this discussion. Direct your inner frustration and aggression elsewhere. If you ever want to truly have a discussion about any of the subjects I’ve mentioned I’m always open for that, but take your dog and pony show elsewhere because you can’t even get the smallest fact right. I am NOT A SCOTTSDALE GUITARIST. I’ve never lived there. Merry Christmas. truly, Carole

Chad : Ray, you have somewhat restored my faith in the progress of humanity. Alan and Joya, however, make me frightened for the future.

As an aside I just want to let people know that, as a scientist, I get a real kick out of peoples’ homemade “experiments.” Putting a HEPA filter outside and then cutting it and sending it to a lab? Really? If you don’t understand the glaringly obvious faults with that experimental method then I feel that there may be too large a gap between you and I that it would be impossible to cross. What a shame.

Ray Stern Carole: The “Scottsdale” part is fixed — I was thinking of your music camp in Scottsdale. I’ll fix any other errors in the article, if you make a good case for why it’s an error.

John Bonnema Thank you Carole for your beautiful website. If I could just say that arguing with ignorance is futile. And to Chad, yet another feckless inane dolt, I’ve already placed HEPA filters outdoors for several hours while they were spraying and then had them tested. Guess what CHAD? They came back positive for high than normal levels of both barium and aluminum oxide and a polymer substance the lab could not identify. Go put you head back in the sand with Ray and the rest of your ilk CHAD! Go now! And you’re a scientist are you? That’s a joke, right? Breathe deep CHAD and enjoy the poisons, they’re free.

AnonymousWhat a disappointment to read such an angry and fearful article. I have personally read many well-written articles and research on the aerosol program. It’s hard to believe that in the year 2008, after years of weather modification, that someone could be so filled with anger at what people see and know. The people writing to you are concerned about fall-out period. Farmers are concerned about ionospheric modification for good and sane reason. Their required soil tests for acid-alkaline balancing have shown terrifically high levels of aluminum and barium. They watch the particulate fallout after the aerosol tankers grid the skies above their land. High levels of aluminum in the Adirondack’s waterways are a concern of scientists. Acid rain studies have been very costly, and sulfur dioxide drift has been a chronic problem. Now aluminum toxicity. The world wide aerosol program or “sun dimming” is not made public because the mass reaction would not be positive. Scientists and military are under contract for 20 or more years after retirement. The threat of a $10,000 fine, a prison sentence, and loss of pension is enough to keep anyone quiet. Forgive me for my personal criticism, I am not personally involved with you, but you need to get in touch with your unfocused anger. It’s not the citizens, their concerns and knowledge that you’re angry about.

AlanRay, why haven’t you posted my last comment? It was a response to Chad’s disrespectful comment made about Joya and myself. Are you into censorship as well? Can’t take the heat? Alan

Rosario Marcianò The smoking gun! Controlled aerosol over the cities. Chemtrails! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRtITzZbBM&fmt=18 

DaveThis guy is a hack. Even admits to doing minimal research and obviously had his mind made up. If you can look up at the sky while Chemtrails are being sprayed, say that it is normal, then you are in denial or just plain dumb. Also, there are mainstream reports about very high levels, illegal levels of Barium from the Chemtrails. Suck on this Ray…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI “Local news station confirms barium in chemtrails”. BOGUS.

Another great source for info: http://www.bariumblues.com/index.htm Warning, Ray may find the information hard to understand. BOGUS.

Doubting ThomasI met a guy this summer who was absolutely convinced of the conspiracy behind Chemtrails. As proof, he told me to look it up on Youtube. I told him that I would only trust proof provided by People magazine and left it at that. So in a nutshell, I have to say I agree with what Chad said and I would add that everyone take the time to look up the following terms: Confirmation Bias – Scientific Method – Full Disclosure – Peer Review – Baloney Detection Kit – and most importantly – True Believer Syndrome

AuroraThank you Carol for standing up for your truth and thank you all of you that take this seriously. There is so many sleep walking people in the world and I’m wondering if there is a conspiracy going on to numb people.  Someone said that what’s happening above our heads is one of the greatest crimes against humanity. A lot of people are in for a rude awakening when the truth comes out…. Please read the following article: “Germany becomes the First Country to admit Clandestine Chemtrails Operations” (debunked as a vicious mis-translation) For all those activists who have been investigating and reporting on clandestine government operations around the world to manipulate our weather patterns, this news from Germany is groundbreaking. The TV news report states that “the military planes of the German Federal Army are manipulating our climate; this is what the weather researchers are presuming and their suspicions are confirmed… “We can state with a 97% certainty that we have on our hands chemical trails (chemtrails) comprised by fine dust containing polymers and metals, used to disrupt radar signals.” “This is their main purpose, but I was surprised that this artificial cloud was so wide-spread. The radar images are stunning considering the needed tons of dispersed elements — although, the federal army claims that only small amounts of material were propagated. The military heads claim that the substances used are not harmful.” “In the United States of America there are protest after protest for many years now, against these military operations and now people are mobilising in Germany as well. Per example JOHANNES REMMEL of the Greens. “It’s obvious that enormous regions are being polluted with clandestine actions, but all of this has to be made public. The government must provide explanations to the unsuspecting population.” This is a very significant development in the battle to find out why our governments are spraying chemicals into our atmosphere, however it is only the tip of the iceberg. As far as researchers have been able to conclude, chemical spraying by our governments have been in full operation since mid-to-late 1990’s (possibly earlier). The following video presentation is a great introduction to chemtrails and some of its possible implications: Aerosol Crimes (1:39:23). Right now we can only speculate as to what type of chemicals are used in these operations, however one thing is certain, if we saw a car driving down the road, spewing out a plume of smoke the way these planes are doing we would be very concerned. Considering that half the species in the world could be wiped out due to global warming, the least we could do is to demand that our governments explain what it is that they are spraying us with, specially if military heads are claiming “that the substances used are not harmful”. As we know, when the militaries of the world say we have nothing to be concerned about then we have everything to be concerned about. Keep in mind that chemtrails have been categorized as an “exotic weapons systems” by the 107th CONGRESS of the United States in House Bill H. R. 2977. Further information on chemtrails at educate-yourself.org http://www.chycho.com/?q=chemtrails BOGUS

M. Richard Chad, as a “Scientist” maybe you could explain Ionospheric Modification to your friends. You must be familiar with the Weather Modification Bill from 2001 that originally coined the term chemtrails. What type of Atmospheric Science do you study? You could be involved in a comprehension study for your age group. Sometimes the youngest children have a need to argue any subject, just to be “right”. It’s relative to passive/aggressive behavioral disorder. Something in common with Ray? Hope your not an Environmental Epidemiologist who studies cluster groups of fallout victims.

New Orleans Wake Up Club Good Folks, time to move on. Yet a second article; this definitely a distraction. Don’t waste your time and energy. The old saw to stay away from argumentative, close-minded people applies. Like so many things, waking people up is a numbers game. An experienced salesman knows that every, “no,” leads that much closer to a, “yes.” And Moves On. Know when to fold a hand and walk. Attempt to focus your efforts, stay away from diversion, and make your shots count for as much as is possible. You are fishing for those who are slated To Know. Not everybody, by a long shot, is. Drop your seeds, do a bit of watering. If signs of progress appear, pay a bit more attention. But keep it fluid and moving in any case.

sKind of like the proponents of the theory that the physiology of a cell is determined by the cell’s genetic material. Or the theory that the universe was created out of nothing by a “big bang”. You will object, but when I tried to ask some scientists about it, they “immediately became evasive and tried to change the topic”.

In response to this quote from the article: “Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny.”

Geoengineering : It also appears that we ‘Chemtrail’ investigators have been chasing our tails, being intentionally discredited, maligned, and fed disinformation to keep the actual truth just below the levels of media perception. The real story has been taking place in broad daylight, safely concealed under the scientific umbrella of ‘Geoengineering and intentional climate change.’ Chemtrails are just one of the ‘mitigations’ proposed to Geoengineering our planet. Once we began sifting through the numerous studies, experiments and papers written on intentional climate change, we found a wealth of supporting evidence of well funded global atmospheric modification programs. One such paper is Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project http://www.metatronics.net/lit/geo2.html#two (Jay Michaelson, published in the Stanford Environmental Law Journal, January, 1998) The author makes a very convincing case for the pressing need of undertaking geoengineering projects. He argues that regulation, environmental laws and other stumbling blocks limit our ability to directly address the dangers that threaten us directly and immediately. He writes: “The projected insufficiency of Kyoto’s emission reduction regime, and the problems of absence, cost, and incentives discussed in part II, cry out for an alternative to our present state of climate change policy myopia.” “Geoengineering–intentional, human-directed manipulation of the Earth’s climatic systems–may be such an alternative. This part proposes that, unlike a regulatory “Marshall Plan” of costly emissions reductions, technology subsidies, and other mitigation measures, a non-regulatory “Manhattan Project” geared toward developing feasible geoengineering remedies for climate change can meaningfully close the gaps in global warming and avert many of its most dire consequences.” “In some ways, this phase has already begun, as geoengineering has moved from the pages of science fiction to respectable scientific and policy journals. [FN127] One of the most encouraging proposals today focuses on the creation of vast carbon sinks by artificially stimulating phytoplankton growth with iron “fertilizer” in parts of the Earth’s oceans. [FN128] Another proposal suggests creating miniature, *106 artificial “Mount Pinatubos” by allowing airplanes to release dust particles into the upper atmosphere, simulating the greenhouse- arresting eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991. [FN129]” pp. 105-106, Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project.” In Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion, the N.A.S. found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be BOGUS the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet’s albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere. This method was BOGUS the most cost effective, and yielded the largest benefits. It could also be conducted covertly to avoid the burdens of environmental protection and regulatory entanglements.

It is evident to anyone who cares to look up, that this mitigation is now being conducted worldwide and on a daily basis. It is certain that our leaders have already embarked on an immense geoengineering project; one in which they expect millions of human fatalities, and consider these to be acceptable losses. This landmark study; the widespread experimentation BOGUS and published papers of atmospheric theorists and scientists, combined with the visual evidence that atmospheric mitigations are being conducted in our skies, clearly shows that Chemtrail spraying has became a preferred solution to global warming mitigation. The evidence is all around us. For example; this past week Boeing Aircraft received an enormous initial order from the Pentagon for 100 Boeing 767 tanker planes, to begin replacing the Air Force’s aging fleet of KC-135s, the most commonly seen chemtrail spray plane BOGUS. The final order will exceed 500 planes. There has been no mention of the usage of these aircraft. Geoengineering is being carried on Earth on a staggering scale, without the impediment of environmental laws or regulatory constraints. This grand experiment is being conducted in full view, while being concealed in plain sight.

I finally found “the” smoking gun. You can ridicule me as much as you want. But I forgot about this one website and found it. This is a site with 1000’s of collected declassified docs. He has made it his niche. He started it when he was 15 and is now 26. On just about any subject. Especially what we like to cuss and discuss here. www.theblackvault.com… . This “smoking gun” is actually a book. It is called: “Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaption, and the Science Bases”. Where the conclusion by the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research is the most effective global warming method of mitigation (corrective) is the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing, commercial, military, and private aircraft. These were the “Policy Implications”. They spray it into the stratosphere- www.en.wikipedia.org… For those who need an explanation of exactly where that is. Here is the link to that article- “The Chemtrail Smoking Gun-Proof of Global Geoengineering Projects. www.lightwatcher.com… Here is another one.- Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project. www.metatronics.net… Or, you can just go to blackvault.com and check it out. Bunch of links. Actually, their first one, was shooting 1900 1b. bullets into the atmosphere, they even have all the costs and everything in this big book. Including, weather balloons with a load of the aluminum, barium powder. There are links to the book, and you can buy it (a little spendy) or, it has links to pages you can read for your scientific research into what has been presented in it. It is considered a “sunscreen” as the inventor of the H bomb, suggested back in the 50″s. There are also other links to investigate for yourself. www.data4science.net…. www.chemtrails911.comwww.anomalies-unlimited.com… One of the guys that was also giving some info, supposedly killed himself. We know what those implications are. Anyway, there ya be. And if the links don’t work, they work through the black vault site, cause I had to dig.
And I have found out too, that the guy was a hoax that called it “Project Cloverleaf”. Who knows, they just don’t want us to know what they are doing to us and they will intentionally say people are a hoax when they aren’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4 blacklinehttp://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page836.html  World Needs Climate Emergency Backup Plan, Says Expert

Lockergnome : In submitted testimony to the British Parliament, climate scientist Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution said that while steep cuts in carbon emissions are essential to stabilizing global climate, there also needs to be a backup plan. Geoengineering solutions such as injecting dust into the atmosphere are risky, but may become necessary if emissions cuts are insufficient to stave off catastrophic warming. He urged that research into the pros and cons of geoengineering be made a high priority.“We need a climate engineering research and development plan, in addition to strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions” testified Caldeira, a faculty member of the Carnegie Institution’s Department of Global Ecology in Stanford, California, at an inquiry on geoengineering convened by the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee of the House of Commons on November 10. “Prudence demands that we consider what we might do in the face of unacceptable climate damage, which could occur despite our best efforts to rein in greenhouse gas emissions,” he said. Climate engineering (or geoengineering) refers to controversial proposals to deliberately modify the Earth’s environment on a large scale, primarily to counteract greenhouse warming. One scheme would cool the planet by injecting dust into the upper atmosphere to scatter incoming sunlight. Other possibilities include enhancing cloud cover over the oceans. Critics question the effectiveness of these schemes and worry that tampering with the Earth’s systems would create as many problems as they solve. But others warn that currently accelerating carbon emissions may push the planet’s climate system to a tipping point, making drastic measures necessary to prevent an environmental calamity. “Science is needed to address critical questions, among them: How effective would various climate engineering proposals be at achieving their climate goals? What unintended outcomes might result? How might these unintended outcomes affect both human and natural systems?” said Caldeira. “Engineering is needed both to build deployable systems and to keep the science focused on what’s technically feasible.” Caldeira advocates a university-based research effort involving scientists and engineers representing a range of disciplines. “A climate engineering research plan should be built around important questions rather than preconceived answers,” he advised the committee. “It should anticipate and embrace innovation and recognize that a portfolio of divergent but defensible paths is most likely to reveal a successful path forward; we should be wary of assuming that we’ve already thought of the most promising approaches or the most important unintended consequences.” “Only fools find joy in the prospect of climate engineering. It’s also foolish to think that risk of significant climate damage can be denied or wished away,” he said. “Perhaps we can depend on the transcendent human capacity for self-sacrifice when faced with unprecedented, shared, long-term risk, and therefore can depend on future reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. But just in case, we’d better have a plan.”

Geoengineering : http://www.chemtrails911.com/archive_photos/00_Satellite%20Imagery/00_Satellite%20Imagery.htm

CathyAnother disinfo article to mislead folks away from the truth: chemtrails are real and anyone with half a brain who is willing to look up can see them. http://sonomachemtrails.blogspot.com/

DougCongratulations Ray, you succeeded in proving my initial assessment of you as being 100% correct. Once again, you have chosen to use your grade school reporting skills to attack the people who wrote in, rather than address the issues or the facts presented. You are truly a hack and a whack job as a so called reporter (sic) – your credibility level is zero! Your previous blog space was filled with over 120 responses mostly by those who have spent more than a few minutes truly researching the facts. Yet you picked and chose only those items you thought you could refute! What a shame that New Times has relegated itself to the level of a cheap rag magazine. Since you obviously are unaware of what a “conspiracy” is, let me educate you assuming your IQ level is above a single digit – conspiracy Noun pl -cies
1. a secret plan to carry out an illegal or harmful act
2. the act of making such plans
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

Since what is being done with “chemtrails” is “in your face” and openly being done for all to see, and thus NOT secret; then the term conspiracy does not apply now does it? Neither does the term theory since there are way too many documented facts. Yet you chose one person to contact of all those who replied to your article (or more succinctly personal attack) to question, then jump up and down when the person could not provide you the answers you demanded. Cheap theatrical hack reporting. Here’s a name to contact – how about Clifford Carnicom (http://www.carnicom.com/) – I am sure he can provide you with more than ample answers to your diatribe! How about the Congressmen and women as well as Senators who introduced Bills in Congress to make weather mitigation legal or chemtrailing illegal? Guess you didn’t have the testicular fortitude to go there did you?

You make the claim (and I will quote you on this verbatim): “Nowhere in any of the 127 comments do the supporters of the chemtrails conspiracy theory offer any evidence of their theory, nor do they even fully outline what that theory is. Failing to explain details is a trick common to many proponents of wacky theories, and it’s used to avoid scrutiny.”

Guess either you cannot read or are incapable or incompetent in reading what was written. Yet you fully described YOUR tactics perfectly! How much evidence do you need to validate what is being seen? How about the documentation showing “off the scale” readings of aluminum, barium, manganese and iron – which I am sure the authors of that blog would be more than willng to send you if you even had thought about asking for it? How about all the other sites detailing the Congressional bills and government programs (HAARP – DARPA) in place affecting weather and what they use to do it – or how about the manufacturers of materials used for weather control. I guess one has to be objective instead of stupid to look beyond their own preconceived notions that you and your management espouse. Pity!

Here’s another of your comments: “Some commenters presented what they see as evidence for the theory. For instance, “Doug” lists “facts” that include an alleged Wall Street Journal article about Russian “weather modification” experiments and the astonishing news that “almost all wildfires have been well documented as burning hotter and with more intensity than at any other time in recorded history.”
“No evidence is offered for the wildfire claim, which makes sense because the statement collapses under the weight of its own silliness. “

Below are several easily available articles clearly stating the condition and facts that wildfires ARE burning hotter and with more intensity – took me all of .14 seconds to find those Ray in a Google search!

“What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense. As the picture at the top of this blog post shows, jet contrails have become ubiquitous with the huge increase of air traffic in recent decades of air traffic. The contrails cause more cirrus clouds in the sky, which trap heat and lead to more warming on the ground.”

True about the trails causing cirrus clouds which trap heat – I’ll give you that one – but then again it is well known – especially if you understand how they are formed. Considering that air traffic is pretty much constant on a daily basis, and there are FAA regulations clearly stating the rules of flight, one would have to be a complete moron not to notice the clear violations of both airspace and patterns flown – but of course you have to go outside and observe – that is called investigating Ray – try it some time!

Since you obviously lack the ability to research the truth; here are several articles listed below which were found in less than 20 seconds time – including the Wall Street article you claim is alleged! Sloppy job there Ray!

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-LikOkTsyYqSaQA8Za0tzA9H9aaY5ARuZ?p=24

http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1694.cfm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/25/MNUUSVEFP.DTL

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=0028

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6983960.stm

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1043621.html

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FR138

Did you look further into the articles located above about hotter fires you state do not exist: Seeing a pattern here Ray? Below is excerpted from a fire site clearly defining what happens when you introduce aluminum into a fire – see the correlation Ray? Or is that beyond your mental capabilities? Notice the inference to extreme weather below Ray! Is any of this making sense to you yet? Combustion is the chemical reaction that feeds on a fire more heat and allows it to continue. When the fire involves burning metals like lithium, magnesium, aluminum etc.(known as a class-D fire in the American fire classification system), it becomes even more important to consider the energy release. The metals react faster with water than with oxygen and thereby more energy is released. Putting water on such a fire result in the fire getting hotter or even exploding because the metals react with water in an exothermic reaction. Therefore, inert agents (eg dry sand) must be used to break the chain reaction of metallic combustion. The fire square is a model created by fire ecologist Richard W. Halsey. It shows how catastrophic wild fires, like the 2003 Cedar Fire, are formed. It includes the three original elements from the Fire Triangle, but adds an extra side, showing Extreme Weather as another important element. Extreme weather is however affecting the fuel side of the triangle giving more easily pyrolysed materials, and also the heat side of the triangle. This means that the original triangle accounts also for the extreme weather situation. Now one last thing, lets look at your comments (now how did you state it – oh yeah) – “What’s really lame here is that there is real science behind contrails, which are formed when jet exhaust condenses in cold air, but these seemingly smart people would rather focus on unprovable nonsense.” Vapor trails – contrails – heat vapors – created when heat is introduced into a humid cold condition. Simple physics really – like when you breathe out on a very cold day – one sees a vapor trail for a few seconds before it disappears. Much like the contrails in the sky which dissipate behind a jet within a couple of minutes when the same hot gases are quickly cooled and integrated into the cold air mass. Ever look up from under your desk Ray and see the jets in the air that leave a true contrail? Ever notice jets leaving trails that expand and spread – or how about those that are left in “puffs” – oh let me guess – they must turn the engines on and off in flight to get that effect right! Ray, you are suffering from a terminal case of cranial anal suffucatus! You truly are a hack – you do not deserve to write – let alone be published! New Times has scraped the proverbial bottom of the barrel in hiring a hack like you – but unlike you, the facts have been presented before you were labeled who and what you are – too bad you didn’t make the same attempt at credible reporting.

I guess your choice to block my repeated attempts to respond to your comments clearly shows you are willing to avoid rebuttals to your lies! Says a whole lot about who and what you are truly all about!

mcSay Ray, maybe it’s time for you to open your eyes and look up. Since you’re in the profession of reporting what you see, it may be that you are slacking in your responsibility of reporting the truth to the public. Your eyes don’t lie. Not everybody is dumbed down. You can fool most of the people most of the time, but not all the people all the time. To sum it up, it’s time to do your homework and rightfully earn your salary.

GeoengineeringGeoengineering is defined as the deliberate modification of Earth’s environment on a large scale, “to suit human needs and promote habitability”. Wikipedia
Potential geoengineering options from the IPCC: Reforest 28.7 Mha of economically or environmentally marginal crop and pasture lands and nonfederal forest lands to sequester 10% of U.S. CO2 emissions. Place 50,000 100-km2 mirrors in the earth’s orbit to reflect incoming sunlight. Use guns or balloons to maintain a dust cloud in the stratosphere to increase the sunlight reflection. Place billions of aluminized, hydrogen-filled balloons in the stratosphere to provide a reflective screen. Use aircraft to maintain a cloud of dust in the low stratosphere to reflect sunlight. Decrease efficiency of burning in engines of aircraft flying in the low stratosphere to maintain a thin cloud of soot to intercept sunlight. Burn sulfur in ships or power plants to form sulfate aerosol in order to stimulate additional low marine clouds to reflect sunlight. Place iron in the oceans to stimulate generation of CO2-absorbing phytoplankton. Use lasers to break up CFCs in the atmosphere.
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/janet_fleet.html

jr lies

TAX PAYING CITIZENWhen The Army Owns The Weather – Chemtrails & HAARP Author: Bob Fitrakis. Humans have long sought to control the weather. Early people learned how to make fire and modify their micro-environments; rain dances and other rituals to alleviate droughts are part of our folklore. So news that the government is engaged in secret experiments to control the weather should come as no surprise — especially after a long history of “cloud seeding,” “atom splitting” and cloning revelations. In fact, a vast majority of people would be shocked to learn that this orphan of the cold war is still in practice. As the U.S. and former Soviet Union spent trillions of dollars on their militaries, their commitment to mutually assured destruction led to extensive experimentation with the use of weather as a weapon. In 1977, the Saturday Review cited a CIA report hinting that the U.S. government already had the power to massively manipulate the weather for war purposes. As the Soviet Union disintegrated, a 1993 Isvestia article suggested the U.S. might want to partner with the Russians in peddling their top-secret technology to the world. Oleg Klugin, a high-ranking KGB officer, bragged of his involvement in geophysical weapons research to a London newspaper. The grid patterns of jet chemtrails now spotted throughout the Western world are likely the application of these technologies to new military and civilian uses. The military is not attempting to hide its long-term goals. “Weather is a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025” is a white paper that can be found on a Pentagon-sponsored website. The paper’s abstract reads: “In 2025, U.S. aerospace forces can ‘own the weather’ by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies towards fighting applications. Such a capability offers the war fighters tools to shape the battle space in ways never before possible In the U.S., weather modification will likely become a part of national security policy with both domestic and international applications.” Wired magazine wrote about the paper and extensively quoted physicist Bernard Eastlund in its January 2000 article “Activate Cloud Shield! Zap a Twister!” The article detailed the military’s plan for “made-to-order thunderstorms” and “lightning strikes on demand.” Eastlund managed programs for Controlled Thermal Nuclear Research for the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission from 1966 to 1974; he was a key researcher in the 1980s’ Strategic Space Initiative (aka Star Wars). Since 1996, Eastlund served as CEO and president of Eastlund Scientific Enterprises Corporation. The company boasts on its website that it specializes in “weather modification” and “tornado modification” among other high-tech services. Eastlund considers the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) in Alaska a smaller version of what he envisions for weather modification. In response to Michael Theroux of Borderland Sciences — who asked Eastlund whether the HAARP station could affect the weather — Eastlund replied: “Significant experiments could be performed The HAARP antenna as is it now configured modulates the auroral electrojet to induce ELF waves and thus could have an effect on the zonal winds.” At the Space 2000 Conference and Exposition on Engineering, Construction, Operations and Business in Space, sponsored by the American Society of Civil Engineers, Eastlund outlined his plan for zapping tornados with an electromagnetic radiation beam from the proposed Thunderstorm Solar Powered Satellite he’s developing with the help of the European Space Agency and Jenkins Enterprises. U.S. patent number 6315213, filed on November 13, is described as a method of modifying weather and should concern the public. A scientist from Wright Patterson Air Force Base acknowledges that planes are spraying barium salt, polymer fibers, aluminum oxide and other chemicals in the atmosphere to both modify the weather and for military communications purposes. The patent abstract specifically states: “The polymer is dispersed into the cloud and the wind of the storm agitates the mixture causing the polymer to absorb the rain. This reaction forms a gelatinous substance which precipitates to the surface below. Thus, diminishing the cloud’s ability to rain.” Answering the age-old question, Who’ll stop the rain?: Apparently our government and a few of their closest friends in the military industrial-complex. The emergence of Edward Teller promoting this startling technology is more than scary. (Teller was the father of the H-Bomb and grand promoter of Readi Kilowatt, our perky little radiation friend from the ’50s; one of his bright ideas from the ’50s was to create harbors by nuking our own coastline.) The April 24 New York Times reported that Teller “has promoted the idea of manipulating the Earth’s atmosphere to counteract global warming.” The computer simulations on the use of aluminum oxide to counter global warming come from the Lawrence Livermore Weapons Laboratory, where Teller serves as director emeritus. There should be little doubt that this would be a priority for the government — or for for-profit military contractors. While 2001 was the second-hottest year on record (1998 holds the record as the hottest year), the nine hottest years on record have occurred since 1990. But why would the government conduct anti-global warming experiments in secret? Investigative reporter William Thomas holds that there’s a link between the recent increase in asthma, allergies and upper respiratory ailments and the chemtrail spraying. Sound crazy? Remember, it sounded absurd when reports first came out that the government had conducted radioactivity experiments on U.S. citizens and released radiation from nuclear plants to test the effect on civilian populations. It sounded bizarre when news first filtered out that the government was engaged in the MK-Ultra mind-control experiments using LSD. The CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency admit they were responsible for many of the UFO sightings in the 1950s in order the explain away experimental military technology. From public documents to mainstream news accounts, the record is filled with reports of weather-modifying technology left over from the Cold War. Now we have a right to know what, if anything, the government plans to do with it. Source: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12342

HAARPQuantum Weapons (Part III) Ionospheric Heaters. If you reverse a radio telescope, and use antenna to send out signals instead of receiving, then you could theoretically boil the atmosphere with a focussed and steerable electromagnetic beam. Researchers call this model an “ionospheric heater”.
An Ionospheric Heater could lift targeted areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto earth and penetrate anything. The ionosphere is the electrically-charged sphere surrounding Earth’s upper atmosphere that sits about 40 miles above the Earth’s surface. Currently, there is one known test creation for this super- powerful radiowave- beaming technology, but it is being used for academic reasons (click to enlarge). The High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program, or HAARP, has the goal of changing the ionosphere to improve communications for our own good. In the words of the military, HAARP aims to “exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes.” HAARP is a larger version of ionospheric heaters operating safely throughout the world in places such as Arecibo, Puerto Rico, Tromso, Norway, and the former Soviet Union. Funding for this Alaska based project justifies the research by saying HAARP system could: replace the huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology, be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP, with a more flexible and accurate system, provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military’s own communications systems working, provide a wide area earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of super computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements, be a tool for geophysical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area, and be used to detect incoming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other detection technologies obsolete. This particular Ionospheric Heater can be found at Alaska University’s webpage:
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

Weather manipulations are another aspect of the scalar terrorism which is facing us, and this has in fact been on-going for the past several decades. Weather engineering – steering the jet streams, thus “steering” or “guiding” weather entities. By warming the air in one region, the warm air expands so that it is thinner. Thus the interferometry makes a low pressure area in that region. By gradually moving the “warming region” (by moving the interference zone’s location), the low pressure area is “steered” and its path is determined. By cooling the air in a region, a high pressure area is created, and it is steered in the same fashion. By making multiple highs and lows and adroitly positioning and steering them, the jet streams and other prevailing winds can be entrained, “captured” and steered. This alone allows substantial augmentation and steering of weather effects. Triggering volcanos – by focussing the interference zone inside a volcano to its magma, and steadily depositing additional EM energy in the piezoelectric matter, a buildup of pressure in the volcano is induced. Eventually the volcano will erupt from the increased pressure. If the increase in pressure is applied slowly, the slow increase in pressure will be held longer by the static friction, so that a higher pressure is reached before the volcano erupts. This engenders a large and violent eruption, with consequently greater ejection and distant dispersion of ash, lava, and other debris.

Blasting away with explosions – all sorts of “patterns” of EM energy — glowing spheres, hemispheres, etc. — can be produced and these can be used against various targets, either for electrical and electronic destruction or for electromagnetic explosions of these balls of energy once they contact the intended target

Triggering earthquakes – by depositing the extra interferometry energy in a fault zone location, the increased piezoelectric activity will also result in increased stress in the rocks, thereby inducing an earthquake when the rocks finally slip. By adjusting the rate at which the excess energy is added, the size of the resulting earthquake can also be changed.

Direct Killing – by inducing repeatedly pulsed negative energy in an area containing living animals or humans, the animals or humans can be directly killed. Strong pulsing will result in rather instant death, where the bodies drop limply, with not even a nerve cell firing thereafter. Everything living cells, microbes, viruses, whatever in the struck bodies is killed instantly, and the bodies do not decay, even over a month or more. The Soviets tested such weaponry in this mode against two Afghan villages in their own war in Afghanistan, and it is probable that the Yakuza is now able to produce portable weapons with this capability.

Killing underground or underwater – since the longitudinal EM waves used in the interferometry of a scalar interferometer easily penetrate Faraday shields, the ocean, the earth, etc., such weapons are very useful in attacking deep underground targets and facilities and destroying them or wreaking damage.

Triggering nuclear powerplant meltdown – the use of a more portable scalar interferometer to destroy the electronic controls of a normal or nuclear power plant from a distance is obvious. With nuclear power plants this poses the risk of a melt down. Electrical controls for pipe valves, etc. are also vulnerable; the storage of spent nuclear fuel rods is largely underwater in pools on normal power plant sites. If the water is drained from those pools, the rods will heat up and again a melt down condition or very hazardous venting of radioactivity can ensue

Wiping out electronics & power grids – large electronic complexes such as switching and control systems, centralized control systems for power grids and substations, etc. are deadly vulnerable to scalar interferometry attack, by either long range or short range interferometers.

Targeting infrastructure
Chemical plants, refineries, fuel storage sites, tank farms, etc. are also deadly vulnerable to scalar interferometry, including portable attack.

Sinking tankers – liquid natural gas ships, oil tankers, etc. are also highly vulnerable to scalar interferometry attack.

Carole PellattA FINAL MESSAGE ABOUT ENERGY. Hello everyone, it’s been quite an intense week. A week of tug-of-war, push and pull, and battles of words. This message is about energy. How we direct our energy. And how we conserve it. Most of you who know of my work-music, photos, or research, know of my dedication to the discipline of constant reading, learning, and practicing. A large part of what I do is pass information along. I try to connect people with concepts.
I have sent my photo essays to literally hundreds of members of the press, city, state and federal officials. This is something we must continually be doing. Someone once asked me, “What’s the point of doing all this when nothing is really going change?”. That’s a legitimate question. The answer is, “I do it because I have to.” Victory is not a prerequisite for doing the right thing and speaking up against injustices.
This week Ray Stern decided to pick up one of my essays and write a post about it for everyone to see. Point number one is that he decided to say something about a subject which is very heated. Many of us didn’t like what he had to say and wished he would have thought otherwise. I kind of wish he would have been a little kinder in expressing his point of view, and used less antagonistic words, but we all have our own style. However, I think that would have made this more of a discussion or a dialogue than an argument-which goes nowhere. Nonetheless, I can’t name another reporter that picked up this story this week, and put it in the forefront.
Simply put, you can’t definitively prove aerosol spray programs exist in the “comments section” of a blog. Nor can you do it in one or two or three conversations. It takes years of research to understand the immense nature of geo-engineering, military technology, the facets of government that function independently from our public understanding, and then start to assemble minute pieces of the puzzle.
You have to be dedicated to the fact that something is wrong in order to spend vast amounts of time reading and studying 600 page reports with titles such as, “National Defense Authorization Act”, the Congressional Research Service paper on “High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse and High Power Microwave Devices”, “Title II Research Budget”, “Army Test Resources Master Plan”, “Microwave Symposium”, “Department of Defense/Management Issues Related to Chaff”, Naval War College reports; “Space Forces Support For the Joint Forces, Desert Storm, Who’s in Charge?”, “Progress In Space Acquisition”, “Program Acquisition Costs”,etc.
Most people don’t want to read obscure medical papers such as “Elevated Silver, Barium, and Strontium, in Antlers, Vegetation, and Soils Sourced From CWD Cluster Areas: Do Piezoelectric Crystals Represent the Transmissible Pathogenic Agent in TSE’s?” by Mark Purdey.
Then there’s scientific reports like, “Gravitobiology” by Lt. Col. T.E. Beardon, “H.A.A.R.P. Applications And Research” , “Science Board Task Force On Directed Energy Weapons”, “DARPA Statement”, “Viability of Directed Energy”, etc. There’s an endless list of geo-engineering reports; “Department Of Defense Weather Programs”, “Benign Weather Modification” from the Airforce School, “Decision Making In A Precipitation Management Program”, “Summer Runoff Increases by Weather Modification”, “Weather Modification-A Fire Control Tool”, “The Use Of Highly Charged Hygroscopic Drops For Fog Dispersal”, “The Airborne Seeding of Six Tornados”, “Airborne Jet Seeder Solution Burner”, “How Weather Engineering Will Ease The Energy Crises”, “Cloud Seeding From Space By High Altitude Rockets”, “How Silver Iodide Supresses Hail”, “Black Clouds and Silver Iodide: Public Safety and Weather Modification Law”, “The Weather Modification Research Program of NOAA”, “National Cloud Seeding Operation 1976-1977”, “(1980) NOAA’S New Trust In Weather Modification” and, “History of Planned Weather Modification Activities And Research At The Illinois State University 1947-1978”
This list represents a fraction of the reading involved in order to truly understand what is going on with the earth and how many seemingly unrelated phenomenon are connected. Call me old fashioned, I read books. I also have discussions with scientists of many disciplines from many countries. I may agree or disagree with them, but I engage them in long conversations in order to understand how they came to their conclusions. I also watch 3-5 University lectures a week from Universities all over the country on a variety of topics. There is information everywhere beyond mainstream. This is also why it takes years to put the big picture together. There is no quick fix.
One thing I don’t generally don’t do is get information from the internet. The internet was breached as a source of verifiable information a long time ago. Cutting and pasting, counterfeiting, recycling, rumors and accusations, mire the availability of indisputable facts. Scientific libraries have been pillaged, information and statistics have been altered and newbies who go to the internet for “research” have no idea what they are getting themselves into.
All this to refocus on our energy.
What happened this week was a good thing. We have seen that if you persist in expressing what you believe to be true, though 2000 people may ignore you, someone will eventually pay attention. And I have to say that during the long road of my research and activism, the universe has sent many carriers of information into my life. Some have carried my message further because they were in agreement, and other have disagreed.
I think we are living in a world of high stress and frustration and the internet offers a dubious medium for us to direct our daily frustrations at each other under the cover of anonymity. We do and say things to each other that we would never do if we were eye to eye. It’s like flipping someone off in your car.
To everyone who feels there’s something wrong in the sky-or anywhere else-let’s continue to make contact with the media. Let’s continue to write, to speak, to march, to photograph, to paint, to teach.
Ray Stern believes what he believes and it’s not up to me to twist his arm and “make” him see what I see. An apt expression is “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” ( I am in no way implying you are a horse, Ray). How much energy do we want to divert from research, activism, creativity and just plain living to stop and make a horse drink?
Thanks again Ray for making this subject a public forum and for taking the hits for disagreeing. Thank you everyone for your support. truly, carole

Dave MasonThis is Dave Mason from Southern California, and I was not going to respond to the BLOG…& the reason for not responding to Ray “The Debunker” Stern was that I succeeded in getting my message out. I WON RAY. and Carole, Thank you for the inspiration! I was painted one way – BUT, I know the truth of that conversation. Your Venom spewed, but I knew what I was dealing with. Thanks for telling my story and waking people up. The feedback has been so positive that WE are getting answers. And This is just the beginning… People, I hope our military is not spraying US — and that means you reading this. I truly hope that secret agents using jumbo jets to spray the whole world with toxins for some nefarious purpose is ludicrous…But the day I stop asking questions is the day I die. Got It. – And I will continue to fight for the planet. And WE will win! God Bless US all.

onedeepquite the biased, arrogant (and laughably incorrect)article. Big words for someone that is dead wrong, and CLEARLY has done zero research. Sounds like you’re out to just mock people instead of knowing the truth. I feel bad for people in such close minded, self absorbed bubbles. At any rate, I think the open minded intellectuals have owned you enough in here, so Ill leave it be…

DouglasMr. Stern, I recently read your feckless attempt at real journalism with your alleged Chemtrail rebuttal. I was one of the ones that commented, with documentation references, in the first round of blogs regarding your initial article. I’m really somewhat surprised at your rebuttal article, especially since there was so much good, credible, verifiable documentation to the contrary in the blogs based on your original article – even though you blindly claim there was not. In spite of your claims that there were no good documentation, you apparently also chose not to research any of them, shameful for someone that calls themselves a journalist. Moreover, I think you added to your incompetence and willful ignorance by adding that those of us that believe in the facts clearly supporting Creationism are just as guilty as those believing in the indisputable facts supporting chemtrails. To me, that’s a pretty shameful excuse for journalism. I thought that journalists were supposed to shed light on the truth, not be shills for those that would hide it or misrepresent it or in many cases, outright lie about it. Such is the case at hand. Because you failed to research the easily obtainable supporting documentation in the first article, I will provide verbatim excerpts of the October 2, 1992 Wall Street Journal article regarding the Elate Technologies’ weather modification project. I’d be glad to send you a copy of the article if you’d like. The article, authored by Adi Ignatius, was titled “Rain, Rain, Go Away, Go Soak Someone Less Willing to Pay; Moscow Firm Offers ‘Weather Made to Order’; Our Man Requests Three Days,” pages A1 and A11.  A small Russian company, Elate Technologies, Inc., using the “electrostatics” of an antenna array consisting of “dozens of aerials, each 25 feet tall, that discharged electrical energy upward to react with the ions of the air,” cleared a 200-mile radius during a drizzly day. The company promises “weather made to order” in the field of “weather extortion” and claims it can “fine-tune weather patterns over a 200-mile range. The company’s commercial director asked the author, “Do you remember that strong wind in Moscow two days ago? We created that.” This company was using HAARP technology that is referenced in another credibly documented article, authored by researcher Mark Farmer, in the September 1995 Popular Science, titled “Mystery in Alaska, The Secret Agenda of a Military Project in Alaska.” In this easily obtainable document,the author states that this technology can be used “heating regions of the lower and upper ionosphere” and for “manipulating local weather.” Pardon my digression away from the issue at hand – chemtrails – but I just wanted to educate you, since you chose not to inform yourself, on some easily obtainable documentation on the very-real fact of weather modification. I live a couple hours north of Phoenix but go there often. Often enough to view the readily recognizable chemtrails that are being intentionally sprayed in the skies and those that are harmless, quickly dissipating contrails. The same ones that I watched over the past several days, and am watching as I write this, from here up north. You folks that refuse to see them or the difference and then refuse to do even a modicum of research are willingly ignorant and that’s a real travesty. Sheeple. Mr. Stern, there’s really no excuse for your shoddy uninformed journalism. In my view, you are one of Communist Lenin’s “useful idiots.” Why don’t you get in touch with Mr. Ignatius or Mr. Farmer and discuss the finer points of educated, informed journalism. And those of us that know the truth will continue to spread it, taking up the slack for those of you that claim to be journalists, and for whatever reason refuse to see it or write about it. Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

NikolaiWell, it’s pretty clear this lieporter Ray Stern is not going to open his eyes or tell us what is going on with the obvious chemtrails. But i have good news! At least your Government is now confessing they are spraying chemicals to prevent climate change! Remember, we have global warming going on. At least that is what they want us to believe: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/29/aerosols-climate-change.html?campaign=w01-101-ae-0003

Wake up america, Change is Coming, in your weather type namely. Please keep breathing… 😦

Ray SternNowhere in the discovery.com article you linked to states that “they are spraying chemicals” as you claim. That is an exaggeration on your part. The article is about scientists wondering whether sulphur should be sprayed in the air to counteract the greenhouse effect.

NikolaiAh yes, how ignorant of me. This article is not in the closest possible way related to this blog… An YES, you are totally right: The fact that scientists or the writer of the article on Discovery News are stating that putting chemicals in the air has never been tested before or any of the things they talk about, means that it HAS never happened before, because they tell us so right? Dream on man.

Neil ThompsonMy Camera and my Eyes don’t lie. I know that it takes 30,000 feet and crisp air to create a ‘Contrail’ that last any longer than 1 minute. 2 if you have IDEAL conditions. These are lower in altitude, below the jet stream and PERSISTENT. Call me delusional, call me a ranting maniac, but that will not change the facts.

NBCCheck out this news story from NBC. It says chemtrails are real and environmental groups have the proof. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz_oNMJXBc – 64k

infowars.comIt’s really funny that when anyone tries to debunk conspiracy theories they don’t use scientific facts. They resort to making fun of anyone that has these views ie.”i think the jet planes are playing tic tac toe” to these people i say go read some books and get informed, then make up your mind. go to infowars.com.  p.s. Hey, Ray Stern, Alex Jones would eat you for lunch

Donna B.Anytime I read “wake up people” and “scientific facts” and “prove it’s NOT happening” all about one subject, I know I’m hearing bunk. Thanks for the laughs and keep on believing!

HonestObserver“There’s another real problem lurking in jet exhaust: Carbon emissions, which the world’s top scientists say are leading to global warming.” I have a sneaking suspicion that one whacko theory has died, and another has taken it’s place. Yeee-ep… You see, that’s not how you kill dracula because that’s how FRANKENSTEIN is killed. Ergo, that vampire is not a vampire, it’s a zombie! “Oh you silly conspiracy theorists… it’s NOT heavy metals that they’re releasing… it’s CARBON! And you should be very worried about it, because those tiny, tiny trails are causing global climate disruption and killing the planet! Got it?!” For the record, I don’t subscribe to either the chemtrail or global warming crap. I’m a SANE person in this asylum of modern times!

Ray SternI never said the trails are “causing global climate disruption and killing the planet,” though scientists do say that the buildup of greenhouse gases is leading to global warming. Stick to the facts. We have to have a baseline of some sort, and that baseline is science. Without that, you’re just guessing. It’s intellectually unfair to compare something that is measurable in jet exhaust by the ton (carbon emissions) to something that isn’t measurable at all (the supposed chemicals in the chemtrails “theory.”)

Anonymous“I never said the trails are “causing global climate disruption and killing the planet,” though scientists do say that the buildup of greenhouse gases is leading to global warming.” Well, yes, they do, but that doesn’t make it a valid counter-argument against the conspiracy of chemtrails. Nor even particularly relevant, especially given that the uh… consensus… seems to have quite a bit of resistence these days. One might even say it’s falling apart at its hastily stitched together seams. That aside, though, there are other and imo better points you could have used that would have stuck with the argument at hand. You were doing great until that global warming point! So don’t get me wrong. I thought your article was illustrative and informative. And I apologize for my exaggerating your words over the irony I perceived. But that’s all it was… bad humor. Anyway, the irony is/was… “It’s intellectually unfair to compare something that is measurable in jet exhaust by the ton (carbon emissions) to something that isn’t measurable at all (the supposed chemicals in the chemtrails “theory.”)” Yes, my point exactly! lol  You used an unmeasured thing (human impacts on global warming) to disprove another unmeasured thing (poisonous chemtrails in jet planes ) as part of your argument against them. But the claims of those scientists are no more valid than the claims of the conspiracy camp, ie, both are just speculation even though some on each side believe them to be true. Rock can not beat rock in rock-paper-scissors 😉

BryanHi all, I have 2 main comments. First of all, often I find that truth lies somewhere in the middle. I suspect that this applies to ‘contrails’ as well. Trust is important, especially in this day and age where the worlds volatility and blatant corruptions seem to be continually expanding. We have got to get back to a higher level of trust in order for us to evolve and aim for a higher good. Corruption must be reduced and we are at a critical point already.

1. In investigating jetfuels I have recently learned that surfactants in JP-8 and other JP fuels includes ‘alumina’ which is aluminum oxide. This same type of surfactant also appears in a jetfuel additive sold by a company named International Fuel Technology Inc. Their surfactant which improves jetfuel and is touted as being clean/safe is actually a subsidiary of Alcoa-America’s largest Aluminum producer. IFT never calls their surfactant alumina, they have renamed it, in looking into their patent though it is mentioned that the surfactants are alumina precursors. This is not exactly a good example of the company being forthcoming, nor is it widely discussed (I haven’t seen it anyway) that JP-8 surfactants include aluminum oxide. It is said that aluminum is combusted fully but I am extremely skeptical that this is the case. If you watch the discovery program on ‘chemtrails’ it stuck out to me that the USAF declined giving over a sample of their fuel for testing. I think that likely aluminum would be found at a concentration higher than they would like for anyone to know about.
Supporting links;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6027706.html
http://www.cohenresearch.com/reports/ifue_01-18-05.pdf
http://www.ftc-houston.com/images/Jet%20Fuel%20Filtration%2006-04.pdf
The above link mentions alumina as a
constuent of JP-8 in a breakdown of surfactant ingredients.
http://www.stormingmedia.us/70/7092/A709290.html

2. Freedomfighter4theplanet mentioned the Voodoo1 aircraft that flew large looping circles around Southern Ca. on Nov. 20th 2008. I actually took pictures that day of the circular contrail as I haven’t seen too many round shaped contrails. He mentions that the experimental aircraft which is a heavily modified B727 is owned by Raytheon. I would like to point out that Raytheon is also closely connected to HAARP. This plane is officially for Avionics research which also relates to HAARP capabilities of long range communications. I am going to be researching as much as I can about how active the HAARP transmission was during this interesting flight test and am also going to be looking at the jetstream and other weather data for a few days after this flightpath and its pronounced contrail. On the 20th of November I witnessed and imaged many persisting contrails throughout the entire day. It was one of those days where the sky got continually more overcast due to contrails. I think both of my comments are worthy of further investigations and would urge those with time, interest and energy to also pursue them further.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N289MT&distinct_entry=true
http://contrailscience.com/voodoo-contrails-over-los-angeles/
One note, if you decide to post over at contrail science, please be decent to the moderator, he has his viewpoint and does not deserve any garbage language or flaming comments. He makes many exceptionally good points regardless of how your views may diverge.

HonestObserverBryan, I think your two points are good ones and investigating them further will shed more light on this matter. And I think it will probably result in a middle of the road explaination. One thing I would like to point though is that no one has provided any evidence that, even if there is total truth to the conspiracy, that there aren’t any/many (?) adversely-affected people to make the “theory” work. At least as far as I have been able to look into it, but I don’t have good reason to think that there are any/many. A sick/body count is needed and one has yet to turn up. While you’re probably correct that fuel/additives do in fact contain the alumminum (and/or other elements), we have to remember that they’re being dispersed from up high and over a wide area. So concentrations of them in fuel/additive alone aren’t going to prove anything. Anyway, you also made the point of having reason to be suspicious in today’s world. I whole-heartedly agree! The corruption however is entirely rooted in the global financial sector. It’s a world-wide phenomenon, actually, and not limited to the US (despite how much the media seems to speak mainly about the US). There are PLENTY of good reasons for people to distrust their government and be suspect of the… now how do those conspiracy theorists put it? The military/idustrial complex?… That has been adversly affected by the corruption in the monetary and financial system over the last century in general, more in the last 38 years and the last decade especially.
All of this is worth noting because the one man who ended the last of the gold standard 38 years was the same man to create the EPA: Richard Nixon. History has proven time and again that when a nation or nations drop a sound/er monetary policy, that chaos results and increases with time. I can’t prove it, but it makes sense to see that Nixon created the EPA in anticipation of an increasingly failing industrial society. With a government instutition is place, the government would be able to reap a fortune in environmental fines, laws, taxes, and expand the law to increasingly extort compliance out of the productive sector, even as the productive sector faces increasing failure. Lawyers would make a fortune, too. Nobody can argue that they haven’t, either!
It’s funny how the conspiracy theorists say that everything is kept under raps, hush-hush operations and all that, when the broader political spectrum is persecuting modern society and has been for some time now. It’s one of the most politcally correct things to do. Just look at the EU and England these days… they are so ban and tax happy on chemicals these days! And in the process, all manner of silly claims are put into the spotlight as relevent risk, while the real, significant risks building up in a bankrupting industrial society are ignored.
So I do not think the theorists are COMPLETELY out of their minds. They have their reasons to think what they do. But at the same time, there is a tragedy taking place… governments are able to get away with their crimes as people divert their attention elsewhere, into ever-increasing versions of half-truths and heresay evidence of them. Structural and financial decay and truly needed protective measures go more lax, and perhaps non-existent as the trivial becomes the serious and the serious the trivial.
Which is just downright scary. Every human society that had to endure a regressive dip did so in the wake of unsound monetary and fiscal policy. Today, there are more people than ever in the world, all dependent on the keeping risky ventures within the bounds of safety that knowledge and practice offers. Bad policy is erroding that away, and diverting resources to an attack/regulation on more benign set of “serious threats”.
So I ask all here to consider the broader spectrum, to quit screwing around with the leaves and branches and get to the root of the matter. While the time-bomb of unsound monetary and fiscal policy has already detonated (it has… nothing anyone can do about that now) the damage can be minimized, but only if we use our ability to be rational to as great effect as possible. Just remember, folks… a dark age was made out of such a collapse as we face today.

MadScience4Money$$$ :  This is Google’s cache of http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soilradar.html. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 12, 2008 19:18:34 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more Full version Chemtrails – spraying in our sky  “Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it.” Maple Leaf.  Spray Tankers Tracked by Radar, Lab Tests Raise Concerns By William Thomas Jan. 28, 2003 Last fall, a long-time landscaper working under contract for the City of Edmonton began noticing that carefully tended flowers and trees were showing signs of severe nutrient deficiencies. City specifications call for electrical conductivity (EC) readings no higher than “1” in local soils.  When soil samples showed damaging EC readings 4.6 to 7-times higher than this maximum permissible level, Dave Dickie suspected that elevated levels of electricity-conducting metals in the soils could be leading to the plants’ “chlorosis” condition.  A life-long plane spotter, Dickie also wondered if there could be a connection to events unfolding on ATC radar scopes during his regular visits to the Edmonton municipal airport’s Air Traffic Control center. Last Father’s Day, Dickie and an excited group of 12 year-olds watched two KC-135s, tagged “Petro 011” and “Petro 012”, flying at 34,000 and 36,000 feet south and north of Edmonton. According to the controllers watching the scopes, both U.S. Air Force KC-135 air-refueling tankers had flown south out of Alaska.  But the big Boeings were not refueling other aircraft.  Instead, as Dickie, the kids and the controllers watched, the four-engine jets began making patterns over Edmonton – “circuits” the controllers called it. The Stratotankers were working alone in “commanded airspace” from which all other aircraft were excluded. And they were leaving chemtrails.  TELLTALE SIGNATURES “The signature is significant” commented one radar operator, referring to trails clearly visible on his scope extending for miles behind the KC-135s.  In contrast, a commercial JAL flight on the same display left no visible trail. Going outside, Dickie and several controllers scanned clear blue skies over the northern Canadian city.  Visibility was outstanding.  They easily located a KC-135 leaving a lingering, broad white plume.  They could also clearly see the JAL airliner at a similar flight level. It left no contrail at all. On other occasions, Dickie has watched KC-135s on Edmonton radar leaving lingering trails as low as 18,000 feet. “We see these guys up here a lot,” radar techs told Dickie, explaining that the USAF tanker flights originate in Alaska and continue on into the States – after gridding the Edmonton area with emanations clearly visible on radar. “You should have seen it when they had the big summit up in Calgary,” the Canadian controllers exclaimed.  “It was exciting to watch them.”  The G7 maneuvers suggested that barium might have been sprayed to enhance radio and radar surveillance over what protesters condemned as a “globalization” conference aimed at worldwide corporate domination. That was speculation. But back in Edmonton, there was no doubt that particulates were being sprayed by the tankers.  Pointing to “birdie feet” on their scopes, the radar technicians showed Dickie particles appearing “as concentrations of dots” in the radar-tracked plumes. Zooming in and out on each plane with the click of cursor, Dickie said that he and the controllers “could see different contrails.”  Some were short, and quickly vanished from the scopes.  Other trails were thick, long and lingering – not acting like contrails at all. Especially exciting for Dickie and the kids was watching head-on passes between KC-135s and commercial airliners. Flying directly at each other with a closing rate of nearly 1,000 mph, the huge jets appeared about to collide. But the unconcerned controllers explained to Dickie that the aircraft must adhere to a minimum 1,000 foot vertical separation rule – recently reduced from twice that safety margin. No one explained what might happen, if the “top” plane suffered a sudden decompression and was forced to dive to lower altitude. BARIUM AND ALUMINUM CONFIRMED Assuming that unusual metal content in the soil could be causing the high electrical conductivity readings, Dickie collected samples of a fresh snowfall for the city, and took them to Edmonton’s NorWest Labs for analysis.
 This reporter has obtained copies of lab tests conducted on snow samples collected by the city of Edmonton, Alberta between Nov. 8 – 12, 2002.  The tests show unaccountably elevated levels of aluminum and barium.  Norwest Labs lab report #336566, dated Nov. 14 2002 found: aluminum levels: 0.148 milligrams/litre, barium levels:    0.006 milligrams/litre. Acting like the electrolyte in a car battery, barium chemtrails developed at Ohio’s Wright Patterson Air Force Base are routinely sprayed into the atmosphere to “duct” or bend military radio and radar waves over-the-horizon, instead of continuing straight beyond the Earth’s curvature into space.  “Wright Pat” is also closely connected to HAARP Experiments employing tightly focused, extremely high-energy radio frequency beams to alter the weather, disrupt communications and “X-ray” bunkers deep underground thousands of miles away the transmitter array in Gakon, Alaska. Aluminum stunts plant growth by sucking nutrients from the soil. Dave Dickie told me, “Our most recent snowfall was tested for aluminum and barium and we were not surprised with the results. You’ve said it all along and this just substantiates some of your claims.” But the soil expert cautioned that because the chemistry of unrefined aluminum oxide often found in the environment depends on soil acidity and the presence of other minerals, it is difficult to estimate “natural” background concentrations. Even so, NorWest Lab techs told Dickie that the elevated levels of aluminum and barium they were finding are not usually found in Alberta precipitation. Concerned city officials ordered more tests made on precipitation falling within a 40 mile radius of Edmonton.  A second series of lab tests has now confirmed high levels of barium and aluminum in snow Dickie thinks fell through chemtrails.  So far, he says, there is no other explanation for the high-levels of each chemical compound in city soils. Dickie says it’s so simple to test for aluminum and barium, labs typically charge $10 to $15 for this analysis.  He is adding quartz to the list of possible fallout components after tiny quartz particles dominated lab tests of rain falling through heavy chemtrails over Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999.  Levels of aluminum analyzed in the Ontario samples were up to seven-times higher than provincial permissible safety limits.  U.S. CONTROLLERS CONCERNED OVER CHEMTRAILS. South of the border, U.S. Air Traffic Controllers were also concerned over tanker-spread emissions.  Just after Christmas 2001, the Air Traffic Control manager for the northeastern seaboard became increasingly concerned that his young son’s illness – and episodes of Sudden Onset Acute Asthma suffered by his formerly allergy-free wife – could be linked with the increased aerial activity he was seeing on his scopes. On March 12, 2001, this source – who came to be called “Deep Sky” by this reporter and ABC-affiliated radio reporter S.T. Brendt – told Brendt that he and other controllers were being told to re-route commercial air traffic beneath formations of air force tankers.  Insisting that flight safety was not affected, he admitted during a follow-up interview at WMWV radio station that the KC-135s were spraying something that reflected radar pulses as a “haze” that degraded ATC radars. Brendt contacted the FAA official after counting more than 30 big jets within 45 minutes spreading persistent plumes over rural Maine.  Also alerted by Brendt, assistant WMWV news director Richard Dean and his staff counted 370 chemical trails criss-crossing his nearby location.  But Deep Sky told Brendt that of the nine commercial jets on his radars at the time, only one or two would have been visible from her location. Speaking on condition of strict anonymity, the ATC manager later expressed concern over the classified operations conducted by much larger military formations of KC-135 tankers between 37,000 and 40,000 feet. Many video-documented plume patterns grid skies away from charted airline routes on days when high altitude temperatures and humidity do not permit normal contrail formation.  Studies by Ralph Steadham of FAA – identified traffic over Houston found that while commercial condensation trails comprising momentarily flash-frozen water vapor typically disappear within 22 seconds or less, much broader, sunlight-reflecting jet trails left by military jets flying at the same time in the same airspace often lingered for four to eight hours. CANADIANS LODGE CHEMTRAILS COMPLAINTS. The previous December, 2000 Canadian aviation authority Terry Stewart investigating a Victoria caller’s complaint of intensive “chemtrail” activity over the British Columbia capitol left a taped message saying, “It’s a military exercise, U.S. and Canadian air force exercise that’s going on.  They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it…very odd.” Despite denials from a Canadian commander at Comox Air Base that the American tanker flights were taking place, Stewart later admitted to the Vancouver Courier that his information came directly from the Comox base.  He was later stopped and interrogated by U.S. authorities while crossing the border on a routine visit. Before ever hearing of “chemtrails”, Canadians were the first to formerly complain to their federal government over what they identified as chemical spraying.  In November 1999, an Opposition Defence Critic presented a petition to Parliament signed by 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario.  The largely native community demanded an explanation and an end to aerial spraying by photo-identified USAF tankers, which they claimed was sickening children and adults over a 55 square mile area. Laboratory tests of rainwater falling through the sky plumes being paid in X’s and grid patterns over Espanola found levels of aluminum seven-times higher than federal health safety limits.  The U.S. Air Force denied flying over Espanola.  The Canadian Forces, which do not operate large squadrons of aerial tankers, eventually responded, saying, “It’s not us.” DEEP SKIES II
But in late December 2001, just three months after the traumatic events of Sept. 11 left air force tankers gridding skies emptied of commercial aircraft, an increasingly worried “Deep Sky” began calling his colleagues at FAA flight centers across the United States to ask them if they were seeing what he was seeing on his own radar scopes. They were. Controllers at Chicago’s O’Hare (still the busiest airport in America), all three New York City area airports, LA’s LAX, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Cleveland, San Diego, Dulles, Washington DC and the nation’s biggest airport in Atlanta all reported tracking unusual formations of particle-emitting Air Force tankers on their scopes.  So were controllers at smaller municipal airports. Every controller contacted by Deep Sky said they were being told to divert commercial traffic below formations of tankers flying strange patterns they were told were “routine”. But instead of enhancing radar coverage, initial explanations from their superiors warned controllers that unspecified “experiments with radar” could degrade their own displays.  The controllers confirmed to Deep Sky that they had never seen so much “clutter” or artificial “cloudiness” obscuring their radars. By then, a growing number of informally networked Air Traffic Controllers were aware of the “chemtrails” controversy.  Some cited the short-lived House Resolution 2977 sponsored by Ohio Representative Dennis Kucinich, which sought to ban space warfare and other exotic weapons, including “chemtrails”. But concerned controllers across America told S.T. Brendt that whatever was going on, flight safety was a consideration.  Even more worrisome was the fallout they were seeing on their scopes.  They knew from their professional studies in meteorology, that “this stuff falls to the ground.”  And they wondered about what they termed, potential health hazards. As federal employees, the FAA radar operators were afraid to come forward with their concerns.  But at least one controller working in America’s heartland visited a local hospital after heavy tanker activity – to find the emergency room jammed with acute respiratory cases. “They want to know what the heck is in there,” Brendt reported.  “One of them said – al or barium – that’s not something you want to be breathing.” [Al is the chemical abbreviation for aluminum.] Corroborating Deep Sky’s allegations, controllers across the USA confirmed that the word “climate” is still being mentioned by their superiors in explaining the ongoing aerial experiments.  At the time of Brendt’s follow-up interviews, at least six Air Traffic Controllers were told that the air force tankers were engaged in “climate experiments”. In 1998, H-Bomb inventor Edward Teller urged the spraying of 10 million tons of sunlight-reflecting aluminum oxide in the atmosphere to deflect a small percentage of incoming sunlight and avert catastrophic global warming.  A patent issued to the Hughes aerospace giant calls for mixing 10 micron particulates of aluminum oxide and other sunlight-scattering into jet fuel for dispersal at cruising altitudes. After studies in the U.S. and U.K. showed that random concentrations of air pollution can cause lethal lung and heart problems, the United States EPA now classifies 10 micron air pollutants as an “Extreme Health Hazard”. (A human hair is 100 microns in diameter.) As reports continue to come in of renewed heavy chemtrail activity across the USA and Canada’s western provinces, lab testing continues in Edmonton, where an ongoing investigation seeks to correlate chemtrail “spray days” with fresh snow and soil samples. This article is used here with permission.  William Thomas is the author of “Chemtrails Confirmed”.  This account of his four-year investigation into chemtrails was last updated in Jan. 2003.  Contact William Thomas:
willthomas@telus.net or Will Thomas. You are invited to contact us at the “Holmestead”.

QRMWhat’s really lame is that the reporter who wrote this article does not appear to have actually observed the phenomenon. A canister that “collects particles in the air to determine their effect on climate change”? Yeah, right. How many aircraft have one of those? On a day when weather only supports pencil-thin, evaporative contrails, if any at all, the sky gets filled with long-lasting parallel and crosshatch patterns of puff emitted from the wings of large aircraft that carry no logo. It makes your jaw drop open to see it. Giant Xs in the sky are in no way ordinary aircraft activity. And it can make you sneeze and hack almost without end, to the point you really start thinking about 1) remaining vertical and 2) whether you’ll need the emergency room.

RogerI realise I am wasting my time, because True Believers always find a way to ignore any counter-arguments, but I just feel compelled to respond to some of the obviously only half-informed comments that some posters have made (mm, that tar baby sure looks sticky….)

1. Yes experiments have been done to to increase ion concentrations in the atmosphere in order to extend the range of radio communications or radar signals in an emergency. However, for several very simple reasons, these experiments are certainly totally unrelated to the chemtrails hypothesis. Firstly, such experiments are conducted in the ionosphere, which is an extremely high altitude region of the atmosphere, a near vacuum “on the edge of space”, because at higher atmospheric pressures the ions would recombine too quickly. The air is so thin at these extreme altitudes that aircraft cannot fly there; experiments are conducted by sounding rockets, not by airplanes. It is so high, that you would not be able to see an aircraft even with binoculars anyway. Secondly, because of the extremely low atmospheric density at these altitudes, the amount of material required to create an “ion cloud” is tiny: generally only a couple of pounds. It is also pointless to create an ion cloud if you have an aircraft in the area: the aircraft is itself a far better radio relay than an ion cloud. Finally, I re-emphasise that all this *only* works in near vacuum conditions; at the altitudes at which aircraft fly, these compounds are less visible on radar than ordinary water droplets (which do, in fact, show up pretty well on an appropriately tuned radar.)

2. There is no evidence that aluminium compounds cause any diseases except possibly at very high concentrations. In fact, it is believed to be one of the least toxic of all elements. True, back in the 1990s there was a preliminary study which suggested a link to Alzheimer’s disease — and was immediately widely reported in the press, despite being unconfirmed — but all followup studies have found no such link. The fact is, the idea is so implausible it probably should never have been published. The reason that it is implausible is that aluminium is the third most common element on Earth, after silicon and oxygen, and is absolutely ubiquitous: you cannot avoid coming into frequent contact with large amounts of aluminium compounds. So if aluminium really does cause disease, it will be very upsetting to both Darwinists and to Creationists. The Darwinists will be upset because it will show that either humanity does not come from Earth, or else evolution does not work. The Creationists will be upset because it will prove that if Man is a result of intelligent design, then it is a malicious intelligence which designed for pain; the world created by an evil demiurge. But we don’t need to worry about converting to Gnosticism, because aluminium does NOT cause disease, except possibly at extremely high concentrations that are not found in nature.

3. Aluminium compounds and quartz are common ingredients of dust. Barium compounds are not as common, but are not rare, either. Finding them “falling out” from the atmosphere indicates nothing but that some neighbour has had a bit of wind lately.

4. Whether or not an aircraft generates visible condensation trails does not depend on the weather on the ground, it depends on the weather tens of thousands of feet up in the sky (notably, low temperature, high relative humidity and low wind turbulence.) It also depends on the tuning and particular fuel type of the aircraft. The KC-135 is a very elderly plane and the ones that have not been rebuilt have much less efficient engines than modern aircraft. Among other features, the elderly J-57 engine has a water injection system, which improves thrust efficiency — and also increases the formation of condensation trails.

5. It is practically impossible to tell by unaided ground observation if two airplanes are at the same altitude.

6. There are many perfectly innocent reasons why an aircraft might fly around in circles for a while — as a student pilot myself, I can attest to that! However, it is completely illogical that a plane would fly around in circles if it was trying to spread some chemical around.

7. Voodoo1 is the test plane for new Raytheon radars. This is not secret (even if the exact design of the radars is!), and publicly available photos of it clearly show its special chin mount for the radar antenna, and no spraying gear.

8. Alumina (aluminium oxide) is an abrasive and it is the last thing you would want in your fuel system as it would quickly destroy the fuel pumps. By an “aluminium based surfactant” they probably mean an organic acid salt (soap) of aluminium. These are indeed widely used as lubricants and greases, including in common automotive products. If an aluminium grease was used in jet fuel, the high temperature combustion would certainly convert it to aluminium oxide in the exhaust. However — so what? Aluminium oxide has very low toxicity and is widely found in nature already.

9. “…levels of aluminum seven-times higher than federal health safety limits …” is nonsense; there is no Federal health safety limit for aluminium in drinking water (because it is non-toxic.) There is a non-binding “secondary standard” guideline for aluminium levels, but it is based only on aesthetic considerations (i.e., taste.)

10. I could go on and on but you guys never pause for breath and I have work to do …

Er, thanks, Roger, for saving me some time. What a load of pseudoscience, garbage, and astroturf THAT was! 🙂

STEVE

(conversation with the Bard)

Bard1

Not true when you do the FUEL ACCOUNTING. 300,000,000 tons. Civil bit 250,000,000 tons. Out of the remaining 50,000,000 you have to take out ALL ARMED FORCES REGULAR OPERATIONS AND THE IRAQ WAR. What’s left is INSUFFICIENT FOR A WORLD-WIDE CAMPAIGN.

Doing the US alone won’t do ANYTHING: the US is <2% of the area of the Earth.

That <2% would require 170,000 tons of Barium Oxide for A SINGLE SHOT. That would require 4250 flights. The Aluminium/Barium is BRILLIANT WHITE and splashes of it would be EVERYWHERE – but nothing is seen. SILVER can be ruled out – the US flogged off its stockpile to pay a small proportion of its vast debt.

Of course there will be photographs of nozzles and sprayers. The US used spraying in several war campaigns. Perhaps there’s only the ONE array of each type. Doesn’t PROVE a THING. THERE IS NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

Hazardous materials would put workers’ families at risk, and there has been NO SIGN of that.

Nobody has sampled a “chemtrail”, or gotten inside a base to a store, raced around taking pictures of airstrips, planes. Nothing.

I grew up inside airbases, and later tested jet engines. Bases AREN’T SECURE (in peacetime), and jet engines DON’T WORK if they are forced to emit anything other than SODA POP from their exhausts.

Not only that, but what about all this hypocrisy and deceit? What about the COMPLETE level of ignorance? One site (it has blocked me) stoutly maintains that the PLANE THAT BRINGS MY MOTHER HERE (Monarch Airbus A-330 passenger plane service from Manchester) is a CHEMTRAIL SPRAYER!

Look again at my final point. The US economy is going to COLLAPSE within FIVE YEARS, by which time it will have NO REMAINING WAY OF PROVING ITS ABILITY TO REPAY ITS DEBTS. NO-ONE is going to cough up – especially NOT CHINA OR RUSSIA. And not Britain either.

When that shit hits the fan all HELL will break loose. This INFORMATIONAL GARBAGE will exacerbate that moment.

It’ll be a GOOD IDEA to REMAIN HERE.

panic