Posts Tagged ‘ignorance’
BAMBOOZLED – BALONEY DETECTION KIT – BOENOID – BARD OF ELY BLOG RESPONSE – A BLACK HOLE – BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING – CHEMTRAILERS WE LOVE YOU (NOT!)
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge — even to ourselves — that we’ve been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) – Carl Sagan
BALONEY DETECTION KIT
As a society it falls upon us as individuals to live our lives using the best judgement possible.
For each of us it wasn’t always that way: as children we instinctively believed what our parents told us, which was a powerful defense mechanism that generally kept us out of harm’s way.
As we grow up this gullibility has to be exchanged for a healthy cynicism and sound judgment which will afford some protection from the intentional deception of sociopaths.
This is a comment posted at Uncinus’s excellent site Contrailscience late Sept 2009. It is rare to find such professionalism and terse accuracy in “chemtrailer” writing, and here is an experienced and technically competent writer presenting an opposite point of view. No surprise, there:
For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.
* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.
* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:
** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.
* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.
* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.
* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.
* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.
* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”
* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.
* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.
* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.
* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?
* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.
* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.
* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.
* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.
* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.
* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.
* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.
* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.
* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.
* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.
* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.
* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.
* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.
It ain’t happening.
BARD OF ELY BLOG – A RESPONSE
“Although chemtrails are conspicuous in our skies and thousands of sites exist about the menace the mainstream media and the authorities are very quiet about the matter or ignore and deny their existence. This of course, adds fuel to the conspiracy theories!
But it’s not just the media and the officials that are silent because there is a similar wall of silence from successful singer-songwriters and rock stars as well as celebrities in general! What does this mean? is there some memo that gets circulated warning that if you mention chemtrails your contract is terminated? Are people too scared to mention such stuff in public? What is going on?
I say we need people who can get the media exposure to come forward on this matter! We need stars to talk about chemtrails on live TV and radio!
I believe we need protest songs about chemtrails! If anyone knows of any please let me know!”
There is no evidence that I have seen that trails in the sky are anything except the water and carbon dioxide (and trace amounts of NOX) left by the passage of gas turbines in the stratosphere.
Now water is drinkable, carbon dioxide is respired by plants to make sugar, and the NOX combines with water to form dilute nitric acid which forms nitrates on contact with soil, helping plants to grow.
The majority of trails in the skies of Earth cross the US continent, so it is they that will bear the brunt of this “contamination”. So be it. Their plants will grow a little better, is all. Although the daily burning of a million tons of kerosine seems massive to you, in relation to the mass of the Earth’s atmosphere it is NOTHING.
ALL of Man’s conflagrations, his best efforts annually, will raise the sea level by 0.0000000000001 per cent, for instance (approximately).
Now, as to whether STRANGE COMPOUNDS are surreptitiously being introduced into burning gas turbines, in order to distribute them as an aerosol throughout the Earth’s atmosphere, why on Earth would anyone do that? (It would HAVE to be THROUGH the turbine because spray devices external to the motor would have to be plainly visible).
It just doesn’t stand up to any logical consideration.
Your ignorance has lead to your paranoia.
I blame Western Culture as a whole for failing to instil a minimum but requisite standard of scientific knowledge for the technological conditions under which we live.
Desist this crap!
“I totally disagree! Please do some research Tony! I have been researching this for a long time! The planet is being geoengineered under Caps & Trade schemes. there are many things being done including weather modification which I have seen in the UK and here and is all known about if you dig deep! Try californiaskywatch.com for starters.”
Seeding clouds for rain with silver iodide crystals (or powdered tea!) is completely harmless. It IS NOT “weather modification”!
I have checked through the website above and NONE of the things mentioned bears ANY relationship to NATURAL VULCANISM, let alone the masses of the land, atmosphere and oceans.
The amount of ocean: imagine a cubic mile of ocean. One mile square, up to the height of Vilaflor from sea level. Got it?
Then imagine 500,000,000 of them.
Counting them at the rate of one per second will take you SIXTEEN years.
The ocean weighs 114,398,298,100,000,000 tons. One hundred and fourteen thousand trillion tons. That’s a HUGE dilution factor…
“you can watch trails that last and spread and no trails or old style contrails at the same time, you can watch planes with no trail start a trail and then stop. you can have a day or period of a day with old style normal clouds and blue sky followed by loads of chemtrails and a sky turned to a mass of fake clouds and haze”.
Contrails are a stratospheric phenomenon (not in the troposphere, where your weather is). The stratosphere is generally stable, layered (like an onion skin) with layers of water/air solutions at various temperatures and humidities. When they are moving in different directions to each other (and falling slightly) they form CIRRUS clouds. When they fall without any relative motion, they form CIRROSTRATUS clouds.
Sometimes the layers are supersaturated and only require flying through (say by glider wings) to condense out water and form clouds. They understandably may get somewhat upset when a clumping great turbofan whistles through them. Sometimes (when the layer is SATURATED) the upset is permanent, but in general the stratosphere is less than saturated, and you see a temporary contrail which trails the plane for say a mile or so, before being re-absorbed. On days when the layers are ALL saturated, the contrails will hang there ALL DAY.
Contrails are WATER, and you are not being sensible.
“you can have a day or period of a day with old style normal clouds and blue sky”.
What you are talking about here is the TROPOSPHERE, which is the air between the ground and the stratosphere.
This is the atmosphere as you experience it at ground level. It is THE BULK of the total atmosphere, half of which is to be found beneath twelve thousand feet.
The STRATOSPHERE is to be found at DOUBLE that height and above, to a height of sixty thousand feet. It is relatively rarefied, very cold (-80 deg F, colder than Mars) and TRANSPARENT.
It is the atmosphere beneath twelve thousand feet which is responsible for the blue in the sky (by scattering of white light – the blue “scatters” whilst the red continues straight on).
On bad days in the latter part of WWII, the stratosphere was supersaturated when USAF Flying fortresses set out to precision-bomb German targets in their thousands. The Germans could see them coming from three hundred miles away, without radar, and could adjust their fighter attacks with time to spare. Bad days, with hundreds of bombers littering the path back to Blighty.
Do you suppose those bombing raids were chemical attacks?
“listen Tony I don’t see why you feel the need to insult me!”
No insult intended. I DESCRIBED you.
“i didn’t start this argument and if you have nothing f—ing better to do with your time f— off”.
It’s not an argument. It’s a discussion. I consider it important to correct the foolishness of a friend.
“I know what I see and have the opinions of thousands of others who see likewise”.
You don’t “know” what you see. That’s the point. You’re blogging others down a foolish path. That I feel compelled to prevent. The opinions of other deluded people don’t count for much, do they? Nor should you help to delude them, should you? It would be harmful, even evil, wouldn’t it?
“i certainly don’t need to be insulted by someone I thought was a friend”.
Then don’t FEEL insulted. You’re not the only person that has been foolish in the world are you?
I have given you an accurate account of what it was you thought you had seen. You have been given the benefit of my scientific experience.
Would it have been kind to remain silent?
You should should consider yourself assisted, helped, loved, by this friend, and as a consequence GIVE THIS STUPIDITY UP!
A BLACK HOLE
BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING
It seems to be normal for chemtrailers not to understand why our skies are blue.
Where were these people in junior school, or in science class? Outside?
White light is a MIXTURE of visible light frequencies. The Sun (which is the main source of all light by which we see, is a very hot body which radiates photons of many frequencies, some of which are so energetic that they would harm us if they could pass through our atmosphere – but they cannot.
What does pass through is mainly a tight group of frequencies, spanning just over an octave, which our eyes can see.
Our eyes have evolved to make use of these frequencies – naturally.
Wikipedia: Rayleigh scattering
Rayleigh scattering causes the blue hue of the daytime sky and the reddening of the sun at sunset
It is more dramatic after sunset. This picture was taken about one hour after sunset at 500m altitude, looking at the horizon where the sun had set, showing the more intense scattering of blue light by the atmosphere relative to red light.
Rayleigh scattering (named after the English physicist Lord Rayleigh) is the elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the light. It can occur when light travels in transparent solids and liquids, but is most prominently seen in gases.
Rayleigh scattering of sunlight in clear atmosphere is the main reason why the sky is blue: Rayleigh and cloud-mediated scattering contribute to diffuse light (direct light being sunrays).
For scattering by particles similar to or larger than a wavelength, see Mie theory or discrete dipole approximation (they apply to the Rayleigh regime as well).
Small size parameter approximation
The size of a scattering particle is parametrized by the ratio x of its characteristic dimension r and wavelength lambda:
Rayleigh scattering can be defined as scattering in the small size parameter regime x < 1. Scattering from larger spherical particles is explained by the Mie theory for an arbitrary size parameter x. The Mie theory reduces to the Rayleigh approximation.
The amount of Rayleigh scattering that occurs for a beam of light is dependent upon the size of the particles and the wavelength of the light (lambda). Specifically, the intensity of the scattered light varies as the sixth power of the particle size and varies inversely with the fourth power of the wavelength.
The intensity I of light scattered by a single small particle from a beam of unpolarized light of wavelength lambda and intensity I0 is given by:
where R is the distance to the particle, lambda is the scattering angle, n is the refractive index of the particle, and d is the diameter of the particle.
The angular distribution of Rayleigh scattering, governed by the (1 + cos^2*lambda) term, is symmetric about the plane normal to the incident direction of the light (i.e. about lambda = 90°), and so the forward scatter equals the backwards scatter. Integrating over the sphere surrounding the particle gives the Rayleigh scattering cross section.
The Rayleigh scattering coefficient for a group of scattering particles is the number of particles per unit volume N times the cross-section. As with all wave effects, for incoherent scattering the scattered powers add arithmetically, while for coherent scattering, such as if the particles are very near each other, the fields add arithmetically and the sum must be squared to obtain the total scattered power.
Rayleigh scattering from molecules
A 5 mW green laser pointer is visible at night due to Rayleigh scattering and airborne dust. Rayleigh scattering from molecules is also possible. An individual molecule does not have a well-defined refractive index and diameter. Instead, a molecule has a polarizability a, which describes how much the electrical charges on the molecule will move in an electric field. In this case, the Rayleigh scattering intensity for a single particle is given by
The amount of Rayleigh scattering from a single particle can also be expressed as a cross section s. For example, the major constituent of the atmosphere, nitrogen, has a Rayleigh cross section of 5.1×10^-31 m^2 at a wavelength of 532 nm (green light). This means that at atmospheric pressure, about a fraction 10^-5 of light will be scattered for every meter of travel.
The strong wavelength dependence of the scattering (~lambda-4) means that blue light is scattered much more readily than red light. In the atmosphere, this results in blue wavelengths being scattered to a greater extent than longer (red) wavelengths, and so one sees blue light coming from all regions of the sky. Direct radiation (by definition) is coming directly from the Sun. Rayleigh scattering is a good approximation to the manner in which light scattering occurs within various media for which scattering particles have a small size parameter.
Reason for the blue color of the sky
Rayleigh scattering is responsible for the blue color of the sky during the day. Rayleigh scattering is inversely proportional to the fourth power of wavelength, which means that the shorter wavelength of blue light will scatter more than the longer wavelengths of green and red light. This gives the sky a blue appearance.
Conversely, looking toward the sun, the colors that were not scattered away – the longer wavelengths such as red and yellow light – are visible. When the sun is near the horizon, the volume of air through which sunlight must pass is significantly greater than when the sun is high in the sky. Accordingly, the gradient from a red-yellow sun to the blue sky is considerably wider at sunrise and sunset.
Rayleigh scattering primarily occurs through light’s interaction with air molecules. Some of the scattering can also be from aerosols of sulfate particles. For years following large Plinian eruptions, the blue cast of the sky is notably brightened due to the persistent sulfate load of the stratospheric eruptive gases. Another source of scattering is from microscopic density fluctuations, resulting from the random motion of the air molecules. A region of higher or lower density has a slightly different refractive index than the surrounding medium, and therefore it acts like a short-lived particle that can scatter light.
Rayleigh scattering at Hyperphysics
Maarten Sneep and Wim Ubachs, Direct measurement of the Rayleigh scattering cross section in various gases. Journal of Quantitative Spectroscopy and Radiative Transfer, 92, 293 (2005).
C.F. Bohren, D. Huffman, Absorption and scattering of light by small particles, John Wiley, New York 1983. Contains a good description of the asymptotic behavior of Mie theory for small size parameter (Rayleigh approximation).
Ditchburn, R.W. (1963). Light (2nd ed.). London: Blackie & Sons. pp. 582–585.
Chakraborti, Sayan (September 2007). “Verification of the Rayleigh scattering cross section”. American Journal of Physics 75 (9): 824-826. doi:10.1119/1.2752825.
Ahrens, C. Donald (1994). Meteorology Today: an introduction to weather, climate, and the environment (5th ed.). St. Paul MN: West Publishing Company. pp. 88–89.
And so when we see aircraft from the ground (this is a Syrian Air Boeing 747) we cannot expect to see its markings. They have been “scattered” away. You will only see its markings by taking pictures of it from up close.
CHEMTRAILERS WE LOVE YOU
It’s that moment when you have engaged your sophisticated and educated brain in a discussion with a chemtrailer and he suddenly starts talking about vertical “chemtrails” and challenges you to to justify those… You point out that only some fighter aircraft can travel vertically, and this guy says no, it was a “tanker aircraft” and while you are wondering what the hell, you realize that he doesn’t understand perspective at all, and he’s really talking about trails coming towards you and passing overhead you. Which means, of course, that you’re wasting your time with exotic explanations involving crossing shuttle routes.
Or when someone sends you a picture of a broken trail, and you can see that it had been a continuous trail before some crook had photoshopped it. So you tell him it’s a fraudulent picture, and so he sends you a color-processed copy so damned effective that you can see each individual photoshop spraying pass, thinking he has proved his point. I drew lines and arrows pointing exactly where it was occurring, and he still couldn’t see it.
Enough from me.
“I want information, not a video of some guy’s grass saying “chemtard” over and over. ”
But, that is what this video IS! You are complaining because I didn’t give YOU what YOU want in this video?! Are you f*****g kidding me?! I didn’t force you to come here and make the assumption that I’m supposed to “teach” you something! I make it PERFECTLY clear in my videos that I’m not here to educate any lazy and ignorant chemtard! I tried that in the past… It wasn’t worth my time. Learn for yourself!
I even make it PERFECTLY clear in the “info” area that I don’t have time to be wasting on f*****g ignorant chemtards! Where do you see ANYTHING about me being an information booth?! Who said it’s MY f*****g job to educate YOU?!?
I must say he seems reasonable to me. Stars, save me…
Written by JazzRoc
November 16, 2008 at 1:00 am
Tagged with acknowledge, aerosol, aluminium, aluminum, arthritis, atmosphere, attack, authorities, bamboozle, barium, blighty, breathing difficulties, caps & trade, carbon dioxide, carnicom, chem trail, chemical, cirrus, cloud, conflagration, conspicuous, conspiracy, contamination, contract, contrails, cubic mile, dilute nitric acid, dilution factor, Earth, fail, fake clouds, fighter, filaments, flying, fortresses, gas turbine, geoengineered, haze, heavy haze, history, ignorance, kerosine, lines in the sky, live TV, logical consideration, lung disease, mainstream, mass, menace, metallic salts, million tons, million tons of kerosine, morgellons, natural vulcanism, nitrates, nitric acid, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, NOX, oily clouds, onion skin, paranoia, phenomenon, plant, plants, precision-bomb, ptb, radar, radio, rain, rense, rock star, scattering, scientific knowledge, seeding, silence, silver iodide, singer-songwriters, site, skies, soil, spray device, spraying, standard, stratosphere, stratospheric, stratus, sugar, supersaturated, surreptitious, technological, temporary contrail, tic-tac-toe, transparent, troposphere, unnatural cloud, US continent, USAF, water, weather modification, webby material, western culture, whiteout, WWII
Circle of Confusion – ChemCon Alert – Circus – Comment – Cone Trick – CREPUSCULAR SHADOWS
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
CIRCLE OF CONFUSION
Our hero here is ebendimention, who, with the careless confidence of a person who has never pushed himself to the limits of his understanding, is forging his brave new world with his videocam. He isn’t a mean-minded SOB like some of them, so I’m a little sympathetic, really. He writes to me:
Hey Jazz Roc…Take a gander at the video I posted here and watch in GREAT detail! Explain it all and you will go down in history as the most pathetic debunker of all time! Or can you do something so minuscule as clicking on my name? LOL You’ll find an enormous amount of debunking work to be done there… I’ll be waiting for your constructive criticism. 🙂
His video outline is this:
AMAZING FOOTAGE OF UFO MAKING TRAILS OVER MAINE SKYLINE! THEN A JET MAKING A CHEMTRAIL IS FOLLOWED BY ORB-LIKE UFO! MANY TRAILS THAT CAST SHADOWS ON HAZE ALSO POINT IN FRONT OF JETS LIKE A BLACK LASER LIGHT POINTING THE WAY! MANY SERIOUS RESEARCHERS WILL HAVE TO PAUSE FRAME BY FRAME TO SEE THE STARTLING DETAIL OF UFO AND WEIRD CHEMICAL LINES. ALL I CAN SAY IS WATCH THIS VIDEO WITH AN OPEN MIND AND BE PREPARED TO BE BLOWN AWAY BY THE SHEER MAGNITUDE AND SCALE OF THESE SECRET BLACK OPs GOING ON ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Get yourself a tripod. Learn to LOCK your videocam focus on INFINITY. Take note of the position of the sun, and try not to get distracted by plastic bags floating aloft.
Then you’ll have NOTHING to write home about… BECAUSE
1) The plane is DARK and BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING renders it invisible
2) The “UFO” is a plastic bag; they frequently get borne aloft
3) Point sources of light (sun reflected off spherical surfaces) form a CIRCLE OF CONFUSION in an out-of-focus image. (“Circle of confusion” is a great collective noun for chemtrailers!)
4) The SUN is ABOVE and BEHIND the aircraft. BENEATH it is a thin layer of CIRRUS on to which the SHADOW of the PLANE and TRAIL are PROJECTED.
Confusion, indeed! This is a classic example of ignorance… he flatly denies that shadows can be thrown onto cloud, and that the trail is between the Sun and the cloud… a case where he is unwilling to learn any geometry.
The rock’n’roll (some of my most favorite tracks of all time!) on this vid makes it worth listening to (sorry, ebendimention!). (I believe he meant to call himself EBEN DIMENSION!)
There is a new website out there keenly focussed on the use and dangers of DHMO – called ChemCon Alert: – “The Sky Really Is Falling”.
This material has killed thousands, perhaps millions, of people in the past, and is theorized to be present in large quantities in the materials sprayed by aircraft in our skies.
Anyway, pay it a visit and see if you agree…
“No one today can possibly view that circus we call the “news” on tv and radio and not see and understand that we are being had” – I HAVE KNOWN THAT FOR THIRTY YEARS.
“you will then have your answer as to who are the perpetrators” – NO YOU WON’T.
“We are forcing them to play their hand” – THE HELL YOU ARE, YOU STUPID MEGALOMANIAC!
“There can be no doubt that the “theatres” around the world, are the Imperial Elitists creation” – THEY’RE ONLY PARTLY. OTHERS GATHER POWER IN THE LOCALITY.
“By-the-way you appear to take things very personally” – OF COURSE I DO. I’M A PERSON.
“it tells all of us here that you and your “friends” have a vested interest in hiding the truth” – I HAVE NO “FRIENDS” – NEITHER YOU NOR THEY LOOK PUKKA TO ME!
“I urge people to raise their heads and do their homework” – YEAH, YEAH, LOOK UP AND DON’T LEARN SCIENCE, BUY SNAKE OIL!
THIS is COMMENT – by Ludosophist: as succinct as it is possible to be and with a needle-sharp accuracy…
Man, you may be on to something about endemic irrationality. Since I posted that video calling into question the existence of chemtrails, I’ve gotten so many nasty comments and messages, people calling me a zombie and a shill, etc. Probably the most zealous are coming here from one of your comments, scrolling down, then dropping into my vid via your link and thinking that I’m like a tipping-point convert that they can influence. I grew up in the Catholic Church man, very averse to the smell of bullshit.
I think, however, that it would be productive to analyze why chemtrails are such a seductive thing to believe in. Part of it is the presentation, you get the propagation of a whole system of memes that seem fairly plausible, largely because they’re based on the more or less factual premise that the government would kill you if there were profit in it. Between the abuses of the constitution, a bankrupting war to secure oil for transnational corporations, 9-11 smoke and the collective hysteria that goes all the way back to Africanized bees (remember those?), it’s not surprising that people would find a global depopulation plan involving mass spraying to be grippingly plausible.
The easiest way to depopulate the planet? Constrain the supply of oil. It doesn’t even have to be intentional, the natural supply shows its expiry date, so you start buying up your shares, bidding up the futures market (futures determine what oil, already available for consumption, is marked for ownership by third parties) and bam, the tendencies of the market system endemically price people out of being able to eat. This is what people should be concerned about, they should be planting up their properties, or trying their damnedest to secure a few acres to plant up, and prepare. Economically, logistically, in real, day-to-day terms, the best thing people can do is encourage others to get into a position where they won’t starve, effecting less aggregate violence and chaos as things tighten.
The more you look to the skies and forget about the earth, the greater your chances of being doomed because you wasted your time in comment wars.
Aviation fuel is not good to drink, but nor is it toxic in the same way that snake venom is.
When burnt and condensed it would make soda pop. A bit of filtering through charcoal might help to remove trace unburnt hydrocarbons, but after that you could sell it in your local store as soda pop. What about the sulfur dioxide, I here you ask? Well, add a little fruit cordial and it would help preserve the freshness of the fruit. The NOX? Ah, you got me there…..but when you consider that the THREE HUNDRED MILLION TONS of aviation fuel burnt every year represents an INCREASE in the atmosphere of FIVE MILLIONTHS OF ONE PER CENT, then you needn’t get too worried.
It might be better to worry about the FIFTEEN HUNDRED ACTIVE VOLCANOES that exist. Now they REALLY ARE active 24/7!
Imagine a cone 243 feet high, made of rock. That weighs a million tons. There’s quite a lot of volcanoes bigger than 243 feet high. Some are MILES high!
Now accept that weight for weight, volcanoes expel at least their own weight in gases, steam, and dust. Now imagine one thousand five hundred of them, working away, night after day, day after night.
Then consider there are possibly TEN THOUSAND ACTIVE VOLCANOES beneath the surface of the oceans. And remember that vulcanism is slowly dying on the Earth as it sheds its original heat and radioactivity.
My dear friend ebendimention came back to me, thanking me for my tutelage, so:
Hello Again Jazzy,
Its been a while, my friend. I say that in open honesty. I have learned a lot about con/chemtrails since my first ‘emotional’ days in ‘07 on the ‘YouTube Scene’.
You have actually done me and the people a great service. If there were no opposing factor, there would not be ’screaming mad’ people looking even harder for real truth.
There was one thing that you said that DID stick with me, and that was when you said, “The world needs some keen investigators”. How right you were.
I understand now that disinformants exist for many reasons. Both pro and con. For me, its been the former.
I dont need to make this long, just know that there was never any hard feelings, and nothing you ever said did I take personally. I guess the end justified the means… at least that’s my perspective.
Please have a ‘look-see’ at my lastest videos. I know what they are not. I think even you will be amazed at what I have filmed. (I think my stargate pictures may be a little much for now)
Id really like to see your comments on them. Even if for ‘old times sake’
Take Care and ‘Keep on Spammin’ lol
He then enclosed videos of contrails with shadows…
WHat he needed to check out was http://www.atoptics.co.uk which could have straightened him out completely on some of the totally non-intuitive aspects of crepuscular shadows. It is in the blog links to the right.
And here is a shuttle launch with shadow it didn’t navigate down. The sound in this video is incredible – but true.
We are told that chemtrail craft navigate by “black laser light”. Really!
These people have never seen Micket Mouse’s rendition of “the Sorcerer’s Apprentice”… 🙂 I can’t provide the original Disney masterpiece, but here’s my synthesizer’s rendition of the music:
The Sorcerer’s Apprentice – Paul Dukas.
Written by JazzRoc
November 11, 2008 at 1:00 am
Tagged with aerosol, aluminium, aluminum, arthritis, barium, black laser light, blue light scattering, breathing difficulties, bullshit, carnicom, catholic church, chem trail, chemtrail, circle of confusion, circus, cirrus, convert, dumbass, ebendimention, elitist, endemic, filaments, frame by frame, geometry, haze, heavy haze, ignorance, imperial, infinity, irrationality, jet, lines in the sky, ludosophist, lung disease, maine, megalomaniac, metallic salts, morgellons, nasty comment, news, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, orb, pathetic debunker, perpetrators, plastic bag, position of the sun, projected, ptb, rense, rock'n'roll, secret black op, serious researcher, shadow, shill, snake oil, spherical surface, spraying, theatre, tic-tac-toe, tipping point, tripod, ufo, unnatural cloud, webby material, weird chemical lines, whiteout, zealous, zombie
DISINFO – DISINFO AND HOW TO PROPAGATE IT – DOCO – DOUBLEMEAT’S LIST – DRY DAYS – DYING
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
“disinfo” – once again well-known, well-reported ESTABLISHED ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE is DESCRIBED AS DISINFO.
“contrails do not remain” – BUT THEY CAN. The air has only to be SATURATED or SUPERSATURATED for them to REMAIN.
“if they do they’re a chemtrail” – IF THEY DO, THE AIR IS SATURATED. Unfortunately for ALL OF US, you take THAT as PROOF of a “chemtrail”. It’s the ONLY “PROOF” you have – so sad.
“Chemtrails remain because there is particulate matter in them” – DUSTS PUT JET ENGINES OUT –
“since not enough moisture to keep contrail present at high altitudes, disappears within a minute” – Ah, some detail in your ignorance. The fine ice crystal “smoke” of the contrail will SUBLIME into the -40 deg air if the air is NOT SATURATED. But the air may SATURATED or even SUPERSATURATED. There’s NO WAY YOU CAN TELL FROM THE GROUND, for ALL DEGREES OF SATURATION ARE TRANSPARENT.
“Your science is crap” – It isn’t MY science. It’s ESTABLISHED ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE.
DISINFO AND HOW TO PROPAGATE IT
The first thing you do is start with a common occurrence – an allergic reaction to cedar pollen. Then you “build in” the precursors (some direct lie) to throw the listener off-track. Then you can supply lots of misinformation (“yellow dusts sprayed from aircraft”) and propagate chemtrail disinformation. Here is a case in point:
This is a comment by WATCHER on the post “How long do contrails last?” by Uncinus in Contrailscience.com:
“In 2006 a plane dumped something in our area (Cedar Glen). It was a large yellow cloud that exploded leaving behind a sticky yellow reside on my car and property. Although it looked like cedar pollen, it was in Dec. so no chance of it being that.
Following that…there was a high rate of illness reported by doctors in the area. Paul Moyer on NBC 4 did a report on it as well, with no explanation other than “oh well….we’ll keep you posted”. I watched four days ago as the planes criss crossed in the sky, coloring the sky white. It rained the next day and I got the headaches that felt like an ice pick stabbing me in the inner ear. I have been around for a long time and do not remember anything like these planes trails or headaches of this severity when I was growing up until the late 90’s. I would never have paid attention until I noticed the illnesses in conjunction with the planes.”
“The disease cedar fever is not actually a fever. This disease is a kind of allergy. The allergic reaction is accompanied by watery and itchy eyes, runny nose, and sneezing. Most of the time, this also causes itchiness inside the ears. Cedar fever is caused by the pollen from the commonly known mountain cedar tree, although this tree is actually juniper (juniperus ashei). This disease is a seasonal disease. This means that many individuals get this disease on only certain seasons of the year.
The usual season for cedar fever would be December to January, when the cyclic pollination of trees occur. The pollens are released by the trees and scattered by the winds. Once the pollen from the tree is inhaled, it may cause an undesirable effect on cedar allergic persons.
Many persons are are prone to allergies. The allergic reactions to certain things are caused by an oversensitive immune system. The oversensitive immune system leads to an increased (but unnecessary) immune response. The body’s immune system usually protects itself against harmful chemicals, bacteria and viruses. The allergic reaction occurs when the immune system reacts to a stimulant (an allergen) that usually does not do harm most people.
As noted above, cedar fever involves an allergic reaction to pollen. A virtually identical reaction occurs with allergy to mold, dust, and other allergens that can be inhaled. Other small particles on the air, especially in polluted air, can greatly aggravate the disease of cedar fever.”
“make your own doco” – WATCH THIS SPACE.
“admitted chemtrails” – I’LL NEVER ADMIT TO A FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER.
“global dimming” – REQUIRES 3.6 MILLION TONS ALUMINA/BARIUM PER DAY. ALIENS REQUIRED. NO, NOT YOU.
“substances reflect sunlight” – THE ICE IN A CONTRAIL DOES THIS.
“So what if you’re sick” – YOUR DIET, CITY SMOGS, POLLENS DO THIS.
“depressed” – YOUR PARANOIA DOES THIS.
“fluoride” – HARDENS YOUR TEETH IN SMALL DOSES.
“prozac is a better name for it” – NOT AT ALL.
“Have a nice day” – I LIVE IN SUNSHINE AND CLEAR BLUE SKIES.
“your ignorance is disgusting and vile” – GET AWAY FROM THE MIRROR.
DOUBLEMEAT’S LIST (fantastic!)
“For days when it’s dry.” – Then you haven’t appreciated the fundamental difference between the troposphere and the stratosphere. The troposphere is frictionally-bound to the earth’s surface, and also locked by thermals which become cumulus clouds. The air in the troposphere is always turbulently mixing. It is the BOUNDARY LAYER of the surface of the Earth.
The stratosphere slides over it at greatly differing speeds and directions. Its overall ground speed is typically higher. Being layered, it gets its pressure potentials (its reason to move) from greater distances away, sometimes hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles away. That’s why particular layers are sometimes given the name JET STREAMS by pilots; when they stand out as having a particularly high speed and unusual direction.
From my description you can easily infer that what you experience in the troposphere has nothing whatsoever to do with what you see in the stratosphere. At their boundary the gases do not mix except at rates of normal gaseous diffusion.
And this condition remains even after “days when it’s dry”.
The absolute reverse can also be true: the conditions in the troposphere are violent, stormy and wet, while up above in the stratosphere the conditions are BONE DRY, AND THERE’S NO SIGN OF CONTRAILS ANYWHERE.
“People are dying” – And being born.
“Respiration problems, CANCERS/blah/DEATHS RISING” – The population’s rising
“persists” – People persist
“obvious cover up government/media” – Not so. Thinking people know that CONNECTING events isn’t THAT easy
“If you really had a clue when it came to Science, then you wouldn’t be posting this crap” – Take a look in the mirror before you write
“So the proof is what comes out of your mouth. You are an evil person for promoting what the government is doing to its citizens and you should be tried just like the Nazis were in the Nuremberg Trials for the atrocities you and others like you are trying to cover up”
And those LIES you write here in a continuous stream are the reason for my responses. Your INDUSTRIES are POISONING your groundwater, your FOOD is DENATURED and POLLUTED, your air is thick with POLLEN, AUTO FUMES, and PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOGS, RADIOACTIVE A-BOMB PRODUCTS, elevated levels of UV RADIATION, you live in IGNORANCE, LIES, FEAR, and STRESS, and instead of ADDRESSING THESE PRESSING PROBLEMS, your LOOSE THINKING connects with persistent vapor trails and CONCOCTS a massive genocidal goverment campaign, and an actionable libel to boot, all without a SHRED of EVIDENCE.
You really DO have the government you deserve…
Written by JazzRoc
November 7, 2008 at 1:00 am
Tagged with actionable libel, aerosol, alien, alumina, aluminium, aluminum, arthritis, auto fumes, barium, boundary layer, breathing difficulties, carnicom, chem trail, chemtrail, cloud, concocts, contrails, cumulus, degrees of saturation, denatured, depressed, diet, disinfo, disinformation, dusts, established atmospheric science, fear, filaments, fluoride, food, fundamental difference, harden, heavy haze, ice, ignorance, industries, jet stream, lies, lines in the sky, loose thinking, lung disease, massive genocidal government campaign, metallic salts, moisture, morgellons, no more blue skies, normal gaseous diffusion, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, paranoia, photochemical smog, pilot, poisoning, pollen, polluted, prozac, ptb, radioactive a-bomb products, rense, saturated, shred of evidence, smog, spraying, stratosphere, stress, supersaturated, teeth, thermal, tic-tac-toe, transparent, tropospher, turbulently mixing, unnatural cloud, uv radiation, webby material, whiteout
HERE – HI – HOLE PUNCH CLOUDS/ SATELLITE CHEMTRAILS – HUBPAGES FRACAS – HOW STUPID ARE YOU? – HOW TO RUN A CHEMTRAIL SCARE – HYPOCRITES (Nuts for Soda-Pop) – IGNORANCE – INHALING – IS JAZZROC AN AGENT?
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
“aluminum, anthrax*, lupus*, fungus*, silver iodide, barium, bacteria*, titanium” – Those marked * would be incinerated by a gas turbine. A turbofan’s exhaust is as STERILE as a hospital SURGERY.
The rest you will find are COMMON INGREDIENTS OF HOUSEHOLD PAINT (excepting silver).
“the COMBINATION of pollens, auto fumes, and urban smog can cause severe auto-immune failure, asthma, and death in the young, weak, or elderly”
I’m quoting myself here. Didn’t you read it? HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!
Just to let you know I’m campaigning against anyone claiming the existence of chemtrails.
CHEMTRAILS don’t exist. There’s NO ROOM on passenger planes. No airport trucks or bowsers.
No white splashes, no guys in protective clothing, no nozzles (except fuel dump nozzles). No stories of employees or relatives with sickness/infection after TEN years of “use”.
Jet engines are PUT OUT by fine powders. It would take 3.4 MILLION tons to single-shot the Earth. The US has SOLD its silver.
Contrails PERSIST in a saturated stratospheric layer. Stratospheric layers ARE more saturated than they used to be – there’s nearly a million tons more water up there EACH DAY than there used to be forty years ago. So your skies are going to be WHITER, but it’s only WATER, and it falls and recirculates back into the system over a short time. Ambient air is FULL of dusts, pollens, pathogens, photochemical smog compounds which you are BOUND to ingest. But your body has proved itself over 4 billion years of evolution by being here NOW.
You have NO CASE and NO EVIDENCE. Standing a tray in the open air is NOT the way to analyse a CONTRAIL laid seven miles up in the stratosphere.
You are right to be suspicious of POWER, but WRONG to claim your case is backed up by using BAD SCIENCE.
YOU ARE WRONG TO BROADCAST A LIE !
HOLE PUNCH CLOUDS
He’s NOT a prophet
This is a prophesy
That one day you’ll realize
You’re wrong – and apologize
And gird yourself to neutralize
All your antics and your lies
The trails planes leave are NATURAL
“Hole punch”, rare, but natural
Planes cut through – that’s natural
The ionosphere’s a VACUUM
And that is ALSO natural
Ignorance is natural
To make amends is natural
So act naturally
Here I lay into KSD (a familar foe) who bowls into the Bard of Ely’s Blog “Chemtrails – My Story and Research” with a view to applying “corrective surgery”, thus:
No doubt this is complicated, there are multiple aerosol programs being conducted, there are different spray mixtures. If you become an internet debunker because you’re tired of paranoid flocks and then play devil’s advocate, you’ve lost your way. There times when there are regular contrails in the sky from commercial traffic, there are times when you can see the “special” planes at work selectively releasing aerosol in the sky. It helps to be a dedicated skywatcher to suss it out. If you don’t you may vaccilate in your beliefs, and take everyone along for the ride.
This is a militant attempt to dominate the full spectrum worldwide. To control the resources of precip, maybe terra-form, but it’s ultimate warfare of many forms. Nearly every great idea has been coopted as a weapon. It is a war economy. The public has been lulled into a coma or diverted to other causes. The fact that fleets of planes can overtly dump their powdered cargo over population centers without the strongest of us finding out who, what and where and stopping it, is testimony of power and domination, not fiction.
And my response was thus:
“multiple aerosol programs being conducted” – These happen to coincide with wet weather – strange that – especially when REAL researchers have noted that the fifty-fold increase in stratospheric civil aviation traffic in fifty years has caused the stratosphere to get WETTER, and trails persist in WET skies…
“If you become an internet debunker because” – You’re fed-up of ignorant “chicken little” jerk-offs self-aggrandizing themselves, lying, cheating, and slandering others. Probably.
“There times when there are regular contrails in the sky from commercial traffic” – Yeah. When the weather’s DRY.
“you can see the “special” planes at work selectively releasing aerosol in the sky” – Yeah. They’re “white, unmarked” and you can’t see squat. The phenomenon is known as “blue light scattering”, but seeing as that’s a SCIENTIFIC term, you wouldn’t know squat about it.
“It helps to be a dedicated skywatcher to suss it out” – Yeah! You’ve only got to lie on your back and dream! Might as well have a ****, eh? Beats getting educated, doing proper research, learning atmospheric science. Bash the bishop instead!
“take everyone along for the ride” – That’s what you are doing with the rest of the gadarene swine. Shall I direct you to the sea?
“militant attempt to dominate the full spectrum worldwide” – Resources, logistics, logic, reason. I recommend you RESEARCH the meaning of these words. (Oh, by the way, proper research is best conducted by using “-CHEMTRAILS” in “Advanced Search”. That way you’ll get to discover what really intelligent people have discovered…)
“To control the resources of precip(itation)” – They’ve been seeding clouds since the forties. “Seeding clouds” isn’t “controlling the weather”, no matter what some idiot general has proposed in a paper.
“terra-form” – If you knew any physics, you’d shut up about that. A one-megaton nuclear bomb buried deep in rock creates a 100-foot-wide spherical crater when it goes off. Not a lot of “terra-forming”, is it?
“ultimate warfare” – Haven’t you noticed you’re going broke? How’s General Motors right now? Perhaps it’s a consequence of Afghanistan and Iraq, eh? Then how “ultimate” is it gonna be?
“Nearly every great idea has been coopted as a weapon” – Yeah! Strange how Tesla’s “Death Ray” never made it into WWII, or KOREA, or VIETNAM, or BOSNIA, or KUWAIT, or AFGHANISTAN, or IRAQ, or….
“It is a war economy” – Well, it’s yours. You’re led by a big gang of crooks, cheats, and liars. Do something about it.
“lulled into a coma” – As a “chemtrailer”, you’re barely conscious. Your task is to stop doing harm, before you get around to doing anything good.
“fleets of planes can overtly dump their powdered cargo” – Air is tested everywhere, using “hoovers” pulling through fine filter papers, in their thousands (it’s a very standard piece of kit). If you had ANY wits about you, you’d know this.
“testimony of power and domination” – Testimony to your idleness and deceit.
“not fiction” – B——t!
HOW STUPID ARE YOU?
jazzroc how stupid are u ?!
Not as stupid as you. What distinguishes my behavior from yours is that I read the material that you suggest, additional to the real science that I read.
You, on the other hand, do not read the material I suggest, claiming it to be “propaganda”.
You will remain forever more stupid than me while you do this.
HOW TO RUN A CHEMTRAIL SCARE FOR FUN AND PROFIT
by Jay Reynolds
Before commencing on this enterprise, make sure you have the “enterprise” set up, after all, you are doing this for money, aren’t you? Yes, you must have a sales network all set up in advance, ready for your marks to “buy into” as soon as you begin. There are many items you can sell, including books, videos, T-shirts, and vitamins which you can honestly say have protected you from “chemtrail fallout.” After all, you know they really are just water vapor anyway.
Once the set up is all “set up”, you’ll have to steel yourself, because what you are about to do is mislead and deceive people, and it is difficult to do this if you aren’t really a psychopathic liar. If you’re not able to speak clearly, with a straight face, while lying through your teeth, and sound just as sincere as a preacher, you had better just stop right now, because the strain on most normal people is too great.
No matter what you do, some smart alec will come along and find the details you forgot, and try to spoil the whole thing, it never fails. Accordingly, you’ve got to learn the number one rule that anyone contemplating a chemtrail scare should make sure is covered: NEVER SHOW ANY REAL EVIDENCE AT ALL, NEVER, NOT EVER! (This way, anything you create out of thin air, exaggerate, or omit can’t be scrutinized.)
Portray all your evidence as “preliminary,” as “dangerous,” and as something “big,” a “national emergency,” but NEVER ACTUALLY SHOW ANY EVIDENCE! (Remember, you don’t really have to have any.)
Most people will be completely satisfied with this approach, especially the people you really want on your side. You see, you don’t really want people who need proof. Yes, that’s right. The name “con-man” is a shortened form of “confidence-man.” The “marks” you are seeking are not the ones who require real evidence. You don’t want them at all. You are trying to form a cadre of “true believers” who do what they are told, believe what they are told, and repeat it as quickly as they are told, whatever they are told. You want a big crew of gullible yes-men, rumormongers, and loudmouths, because they will end up doing 99% of all your work for you, while you sit back and watch with glee.
Where to find the people you need…
The people you need are people who have these attributes:
-They believe whatever they are told, and don’t need proof of anything. This is paramount, because critical thinking is the one thing that can kill your ploy.
-They respond and are motivated by fear, not to discover anything, but to run around screaming “The sky is falling!!” in as many places as possible.
Remember, you don’t want people to think, you want them to remain in ignorance, and fear is one of the best paralyzers of reason, so always seek to make the whole thing as scary as possible, and instill enough fear in your followers that they’ll just leave it up to you, being too fearful to look more closely.
-That have a belief that some things are unexplainable, that paranormal events and magic really do exist. These people will believe practically anything already, they come tailor made for you and your purposes.
-That are already physically ill, are predisposed to illness, or know someone who is, especially people who don’t go to doctors because they don’t trust them, and whose illnesses thus drag on and continue undiagnosed. These people can then be trotted out and displayed as “sufferers” whenever you need a “victim.” This tactic is one of the best, because any scoffers can then be portrayed as “inhuman.”
-The people who already fear any kind of technology, and do not understand scientific terminology are ripe for your exploitation, keep them dependent on you for information in pre-digested form, they will most likely just accept whatever you tell them. You’re not going to tell them much anyway, especially if it might refute your play, because this will encourage them to begin seeking knowledge on their own.
What to say, where, and when…
After choosing your audience carefully, format your story to best satisfy the objectives outlined above, remembering always to NEVER SHOW ANY EVIDENCE, NO, NOT EVER! (That way, you really don’t have to have any).
Your prime weapon is fear, your prime target those most vulnerable to fear and paralysis, thus the harder you can hype any aspect to promote fear the better. The following can be used to your advantage:
– Normal contrails are most often seen during the cooler parts of the year, especially October through springtime and thankfully for your cause, the cold and flu season coincides with this time period, so any normal illness at that time can certainly be said to be “possibly” caused by “chemtrails”.
– ANY other illness can be used likewise, remember YOU WILL NEVER SHOW ANY EVIDENCE ANYWAY, right? So all illness is fair game, bring in meningitis, lupus, any allergies, boils, asthma, emphysema, strep, and just about anything else. Don’t forget, there are numerous hypochondriacs who will willingly discuss all sorts of complaints who just need a sympathetic audience, encourage their stories, you will be amazed at how sad they can be, and how much they will speculate, extending the fear into all sorts of unlikely places.
– Keep your possibilities open, WIDE open, don’t just settle on illness, or you will be missing out on so many other popular ideas. Don’t forget, there is always the idea that *somebody* wants to kill a lot of people, that *somebody* wants to change the weather, that *somebody* wants to do almost anything. What you must do is keep it vague enough and there will be droves of people who will think up more outrageous ideas than you could even imagine. Remember, they will do 99% of the work for you if you just set the stage. You will be amazed, earthquakes, comets, droughts, floods, storms, even plane crashes will become part of the legend you can help create, mould, guide and develop.
– Use the media, use it, use it, abuse it. Use the most credible sources first, before they catch on, of course, the mainstream press will see right through what you are trying to do, they at least have to make some money after the whole thing blows off. Pick at least one media outlet that has some credibility as an opener, the best you can find. Of course, eventually, they will catch on, so then you just go down the line, and don’t forget the late night shows like Art Bell, he will promote anything and has millions of gullible insomniacs ready for their latest adrenaline fix. Actually, these hosts know that people are most vulnerable when they are in a semi-somnolent state, and are sometimes almost taken to the point of being hypnotized.
– The Internet is your prime stomping ground, and can distribute the most outrageous stuff imaginable, so just imagine it! What you will definitely need are lots of websites that can post pictures.
Visual stimuli are necessary to promote Mass Sociogenic Illness, and it is imperative that these images get implanted in the most sinister way possible. It doesn’t matter if they are normal contrails or not, it doesn’t matter if planes are visible or not, each and every contrail picture is a possible “chemtrail”, in fact, you really shouldn’t talk about what normal contrails are if you can avoid it at all costs, just call them all “chemtrails” and soon everybody else will too.
Almost all contrails will eventually be considered” chemtrails” after a time. These websites are your greatest tools, and the nice thing is that you can get other people to run them and set them up for you, they will be begging to do it, or just do it anyway.
– While we’re on the subject of websites, you can help promote fear by suggesting that people write their congressman, government agencies, and the military. These people and agencies will then visit the sites, and their visits can be construed as “inordinate interest” and be hyped as real evidence that “something big” is going on. These public servants do realize they shouldn’t insult the people they work for, and will do everything they can short of telling the correspondents they are nuts, or being lied to, they know darn well nobody wants to hear that. Some of them will see these contacts as so silly they may not respond, and that is your cue to state that “something big” must really be going on, because they are “afraid to respond” or “they are stonewalling.”
– There might come a time when one does respond and categorically deny all existence of “chemtrails”. Search carefully for anything said that supports your idea, but NEVER discuss anything at all that refutes anything you say. Remember, NEVER DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE THAT REFUTES YOUR STORY, you must be the filter, and you must keep people dependent on you for “information”.
Here come the critics…
If you’re lucky, critics, skeptics, and debunkers will just dismiss what you say and go on, but you may not be so lucky, and they will have to be dealt with eventually. These people, if dealt with directly, can be the real pox, so just ignore them if at all possible. In fact, you must remember that YOU are in control, you just don’t have anything to say to these people at all. Arguing with them will get you nowhere, and since there is no evidence to show, there is no evidence to discuss.
Remember rule numero uno: (THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, SO YOU NEVER WILL HAVE TO SHOW ANY.)
Now, sooner or later, someone will ask for proof anyway, so here are some tips on how to handle the eventuality:
-Acting very sincere, state that you “really aren’t sure what is going on,” but say that you have been getting hundreds, or thousands of reports from people all over the country,” who say they are seeing all kinds of “chemtrails”. This pits the critics not against you, but against unknown and unknowable hordes of people, and puts you as just the reporter of these “facts.”
Remember, these people can’t be expected to reveal their identity, and you have hyped the fear level so high, they probably never will, so none of it can ever really be checked out anyway.
-Portray any references, even incorrect or tangential ones as “facts,” everything else you can as “evidence,” all speculation as “hypothesis,” and all rumors as “possibilities,” after all, anything is possible, right?
-Do your utmost best to remain aloof from the critics, whenever possible, do not engage them in debate or respond at all. Since they are right, to respond is death. They can be your worst nightmare.
Since skeptics will show up wherever you are, unfortunately you will not be able to participate in open forums and can only use media sources that are “friendlies”, as mentioned above.
The Bottom Line
Eventually, either too many people will catch on (time has a way of eliciting the truth), or sales may decline to the point where this play becomes a waste of time. An exit strategy will have to be mapped out, or else one’s reputation may be irretrievably damaged.
One suggestion would be to simply connect this scam to the next one.
For instance, another conspiracy theory could be linked to the “chemtrails”, then a gradual easing out could be possible towards the new play. Fortunately, your followers, at least the “true believers”, will probably not even notice that contrails continue to be produced as before.
Good luck. You’ll need it.
HYPOCRITES – Nuts for Soda-Pop
These BLOCKERS, “APPROVERS”, DEACTIVATORS, are all to be found on YouTube. These miserable individuals below think it is OK to broadcast lies and disallow comment. They are messing up your world:
piasillo, executive4444, danynatural, jamessanger, AK47AR, RonBaggerman, Lynnskywatch, christian2868, WhereIsTruth, canadianufo, mipian, EllaMacfrell, rubyjackal, oneforallallforone, nicscics, jdmeglio, kissthisguy88, altnews, ufogovernment, iristube, skywatch, 7bandzatatime, googlepolice, Karrie, truthtrekker, PoiZinConTrol, VibesTube, WarriorMatrix, WhereIsTruth, cnufosdotcom, Airshipal, mrjustin5, DjSadhu, orgonetv, tcvm4141, QuoVadius, greenmts, octomedia, yesiamanalien, jdemeglio, skywitness, ruindweller, johnh23, HumildeHumano, MuWizard, thelegendaryweasel, octomedia, sciechimiche, vleeds, 123carrie, skywatch, PlafGridz, namastemedia, sickn7, svennsonsk, RALPHLAURINO, vrilian, rushfan9thcmd, CathyFromPensacola, aliasrc, ChemtrailsFrance, penultimateimprint, canUcWhateyeC, johnh23, drewswebsite, BlueLandscape, givemeabreakgivemeab, Zigga12345, timebandit2000, CowboyBebop2012, mashj50, ehmick, a3dking, politicalcorectness, ozobezleeb, newton2013, LeRebellareDaoud, dvdhitech, GRIDKEEPER, RedTribune, mattkazee, awakekiwi, annunaki2006, EpiphanyProductions
Hi “EpiphanyProductions”, I’m compiling a growing “Hypocrite” list, and you’re ON it. You got on it by not approving my posts. THAT ISN’T VERY CORRECT OF YOU. YOU DIDN’T WANT TO DO THAT. Hypocrisy doesn’t engender trust!
ANY GOOD scientist when confronted by A BETTER LOGICAL EXPLANATION accepts that he has to CHANGE HIS MIND. I am reminded of Professor Richard Dawkins remembering his college professor, who had his personal theory debunked properly and accurately by one of his students, who said “I want to thank you, dear boy. I have been WRONG these past fifteen years!” If only you could have done the same!
People/websites on THIS list will then be PUBLISHED as “HYPOCRITES – NUTS FOR SODA POP” – people unwilling to engage in a free democratic debate whilst they promulgate FALSEHOOD and DO DAMAGE to our society. Some will get SPECIAL TREATMENT for their sins.
Check out http://www.contrailscience.com for the true picture of contrails.
And MY BLOG for what I have to say about contrails and volcanoes.
I am NOT a spambot. Spambots and CIA agents are LOUSY MUSICIANS! I’m just a guy who KNOWS “chemtrailers” are completely WRONG about the science of contrails from FIRST PRINCIPLES.
Enter WIKIPEDIA (*!!!) in your search engine. It is the Encyclopedia of the World Wide Web. In its Search Box type in the words (one at a time) TROPOSPHERE, STRATOSPHERE, CONTRAIL, DEWPOINT, and GAS TURBINE. See for yourself that I have been telling you the TRUTH.
Or are Wiki and the WHOLE OF THE WORLD WIDE WEB composed of LIARS?
* It is often said that Wikipedia, being open source, is being rewritten by the FBI, CIA, and other government agencies. This is is easily disproved by the MANY REFERENCES given for each subject, which you will find at the end of every article. These (scientific papers) are real, conceived by separate groups of people over separate periods of time, often translated from foreign languages, and subject to peer review.
Disprove this lie yourself and GO AND LOOK!
The TITLE is an OUTRIGHT LIE
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation” ~ Herbert Spencer
Like that station and this video…
If finding material in a jar causes YOU to believe for a moment that AIRCRAFT are responsible, THIS is EXACTLY “contempt prior to investigation” and “in everlasting ignorance” you ARE likely to remain.
It is APPALLING that in a world where EIGHTY PER CENT are poor, and FORTY PER CENT are STARVING, that a wonderful world-wide communication network is being WASTED, even if for only a moment, on UTTER TRAILERPARK TRASH LIKE THIS.
A CENSUS should be taken of CT “believers”. They should be stripped of their keyboards, and sent off to farm sheep in the Falklands, and only allowed back when they’ve passed examinations in Science and the use of Logic.
“waste their time looking for a scientific explanation” – YEAH, SURE. Science is the study of WRONG information. Why didn’t I know that?
“people are inhaling this poison” – IN THIS VIDEO!
“Weather Channel says nothing” – NOR DOES IT TALK OF SPAGHETTI MONSTERS.
“satellite imagery is completely washed” – YEAH, YEAH. Teams of people are employed to do this – they have nothing better to do.
“Your “pilot” status” – RULED HIM OUT HERE. He actually KNEW something. The FIRST requirement for a “chemtrail expert” (YOU) is to know bugger-all.
“NOT contrails” – LIE. (Actually, it’s an IGNORANT ASSERTION!)
“ARE chemtrails” – DITTO, DITTO.
“Go to educate yourself” – YES, but at http://www.contrailscience.com
“I have paid attention to weather my entire life, studied it in college, and am a storm spotter” – You played outside, flicked over the pages of a text book at school, and bought yourself a pair of binoculars…..
“lizard boy” – Doesn’t give you the right to insult a professional person. Go to college and take an examination in the subject. Work hard and swear not to insult others from your ignorant point of view.
Supersaturated layers (which are just as invisible as the rest of the clear sky) can only form when the air is EXCEPTIONALLY CLEAN.
So it is MOST IRONIC that people can be seen and heard moaning in most CT videos when they ought to be thanking their lucky stars. It’s a tribute to the under-educated mind…
What you see above is a portion of a typical sun halo. It is produced by light refracting through a vast volume of microscopic prismatic crystals of ICE, the air through which these crystals are slowly falling is at temperatures which may descend to -80 degrees Celsius, so they may be deeply frozen. As these tiny crystals tumble they present certain CONSTANT aspects to any observer, so may exhibit a circular appearance to any individual observer’s cone of vision. Rather as in the case of a rainbow, each observer receives his or her own distinctive image, and his own personal stream of photons.
This process is beautifully explained here:
The point of the irony is that water vapor has to be present for ice crystals to form, and ANY nucleative process involving ANY material you’d care to name would have already taken place in the turbulent air of the troposphere beneath, and REMOVED the vapor.
THESE crystals are made from VERY PURE WATER. My theory is (for I haven’t researched it further) that subatomic particles from the Sun and the rest of the universe are their initial stimulus for nucleation. As they form, of course, they are DRYING the air around them.
So they indicate HOW PURE the air of our atmosphere is – as do DENSE CONTRAILS.
IS JAZZROC AN AGENT?
NO. Just a busy bee…
Still work in progress….
How’s YOUR paranoia?
Written by JazzRoc
November 2, 2008 at 1:00 am
Tagged with 123carrie, 7bandzatatime, a3dking, aerosol, airport truck, Airshipal, AK47AR, aliasrc, altnews, aluminium, aluminum, annunaki2006, anthrax, approver, arthritis, asthma, auto-immune, awakekiwi, bacteria, barium, better logical explanation, blocker, BlueLandscape, bowser, breathing difficulties, broadcast, canadianufo, canUcWhateyeC, carnicom, CathyFromPensacola, chem trail, chemtrail, ChemtrailsFrance, christian2868, cnufosdotcom, college, common ingredients, contrail, contrailscience, CowboyBebop2012, danynatural, deactivator, death, dewpoint, DjSadhu, drewswebsite, dvdhitech, ehmick, elderly, EllaMacfrell, EpiphanyProductions, executive4444, falsehood, filaments, fume, fungus, gas turbine, givemeabreakgivemeab, googlepolice, greenmts, GRIDKEEPER, heavy haze, hospital surgery, household paint, HumildeHumano, hypocrite, ignorance, ignorant assertion, incinerated, infection, iristube, jamessanger, jdemeglio, jdmeglio, johnh23, Karrie, kissthisguy88, LeRebellareDaoud, liar, lines in the sky, lung disease, lupus, Lynnskywatch, mashj50, mattkazee, metallic salts, mipian, morgellons, mrjustin5, MuWizard, namastemedia, newton2013, nicscics, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, nozzle, nut, octomedia, oily clouds, oneforallallforone, orgonetv, ozobezleeb, paranoia, passenger plane, pathogen, persist, photochemical, piasillo, PlafGridz, PoiZinConTrol, politicalcorectness, pollen, propaganda, protective clothing, ptb, published, QuoVadius, RALPHLAURINO, RedTribune, rense, richard dawkins, RonBaggerman, rubyjackal, ruindweller, rushfan9thcmd, satellite imagery, saturated stratospheric layer, sciechimiche, scientific explanation, sickn7, sickness, silver iodide, skywatch, skywitness, spambot, spraying, stratosphere, svennsonsk, tcvm4141, thelegendaryweasel, tic-tac-toe, timebandit2000, titanium, title, troposphere, Truth, truthtrekker, ufogovernment, unnatural cloud, urban smog, VibesTube, vleeds, vrilian, WarriorMatrix, weak, webby material, WhereIsTruth, white splashes, whiteout, wikipedia, yesiamanalien, young, Zigga12345
ISSUE (1) – ISSUE (2) – JAZZROC – TEXT FROM “SECRET” WEBSITE – JBREEZES – John Aytche (reprise)
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
“Contrails were not an issue” – they NEVER WERE an issue. Your ignorance and your desire to propagate ignorance ARE the issue.
“Samples have been collected from rain and snow throughout America” – and will show samples of RAIN and SNOW.
“normal commercial craft a lot higher not leaving much of a contrail even while others leave the thick noduled classic chem trail” – is a TYPICAL EXAMPLE OF YOUR FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND THE WEATHER. The layered nature of the stratosphere presents different humidities and headings in every layer. And so the contrail behaves differently in each layer.
“they have been analyzed” – so BADLY as to NOT BE IN ANY WAY SCIENTIFIC.
“people like you” – you mean EDUCATED people who understand SCIENCE?
“we already know” – YES, THE JU-JU MAN TOLD YOU. More likely you entered “chemtrails” into your search engine and reconfirmed your prejudices.
“Commercial aircraft fly at 30-35k feet, the chems usually sprayed at 12-15k feet” – I haven’t seen a SINGLE VIDEO depicting such a thing ANYWHERE ON THIS SITE. This ASSERTION you make is full of FAULTY assumptions and calculations, for civil aircraft have lanes and levels they must adhere to, which they receive from air traffic control.
The OFFICIAL FACTS are these:
Contrails can remain visible for very long periods of time with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics.
Contrails can form many shapes as they are dispersed by horizontal and vertical wind shear.
Sunlight refracted or reflected from contrails can produce vibrant and eye-catching colors and patterns.
Observation and scientific analysis of contrails and their duration date back to at least 1953.
The National Airspace System of the United States is oriented in an east-west and north-south grid with aircraft flying at designated 2000 foot increments of elevation (1000 feet after the introduction of Reduced Vertical Separation Minima in 2002-2004).
Contrails formed by aircraft may appear to form a grid as the winds disperse the contrails.
More contrails are seen in recent years due to the growth in the civil aviation market.
“Smoke and Mirrors”
There are many ironies in this “chemtrail” issue. This one’s a beaut. It can be found (maybe!) here.
People with nothing better to do open their blogs, and to boost their self-importance, probably, gossip amongst each other and confabulate their “poison spray” stories as if totally unaware of the breathtaking social damage which may occur if other bad events concatenate. OK, maybe, in private emails, but obviously NOT OK as a web-wide transmission.
When brought up short by a question such as “Don’t you think that people that cause and assist powerfully emotive lies and false accusations to circulate within our society fit perfectly the description of fifth-column terrorists and may be subject to the attentions of the Patriot Act?”, such people consider they have been subject to some form of assault!
You know, “policemen are nasty people who assault criminals”! That’s me. I attack criminality. It’s the social duty of all of us, really – a part of growing up.
January 1, 2009 Bobbi Snow:
I live in Los Angeles. In March 2005 chemtrails began being sprayed over our neighborhoods, right after the heavy Winter/Spring rains stopped. All the plants on my deck were covered daily with an oily-sticky substance. I tried hosing it off, every evening, but eventually all the plants died, one by one. The water bowls we have out there for the squirrels & birds showed this same oily substance on chemtrail days. I had to change the bowls three times a day, when I was home. Lady Bugs and Honey bees were dropping dead all over the deck, on chemtrail days.
Seven months later I began to have severe digestive/stomach problems. I began feeling nauseated, and started losing weight. I’m down to seventy pounds now, and the specialists say they have no idea what’s wrong with me. I seem to have no cancer, at least none they can find… and on days when there are NO chemtrails in the skies, I eat normally; I just can’t gain any weight.
When I mentioned the coordination between the commencement of the chemtrails and my decline in good health a few months later, all the doctors acted like they thought I was CRAZY. (They’re all in their offices every day, and apparently never look out their windows and SEE these chemtrails!) But according to the head gastroenterologist at Cedars of Sinai, “business has been booming for the past couple of years!”
It doesn’t take a GENIUS to figure out that if the chemicals residue can kill plants and Lady Bugs and Honey Bees on my deck, it’s also getting into the water we drink, the soil in which our crops are grown, the food we eat, the air we breathe, the meats we buy…
I have written to the local meteorologists, UCLA, USC, the Los Angeles County Board of Health. I have never received a reply from any of them! But the one thing I have noticed is, during the past few months, the weather forecasters who are on early in the mornings refer to the up-coming chemtrails with the phrase, “Expect some high cirrus clouds during the day, but there should still be plenty of sunshine.” If they KNOW the chemtrails are going to be sprayed, then surely some of them have a idea as to their purpose, the chemicals in them, and which branch of our government is responsible for them.
Is this population control? Are the chemtrails making the pharmaceutical companies and physicians richer? And do SOME of the people have a pillthey are given that makes them immune to these adverse affects?
I’ve read about the analyses of some of the private testing that’s been made on the contents of these chemtrails. The chemicals discovered are KNOWN to cause digestive problems, allergies, skin rashes, breathing difficulties, and contain carcinogens. So WHY is our government allowing this to be done to the populations of so many different countries?
I would like to believe that eventually I will get better… but unless the chemtrails totally CEASE and never start up again, I think I will become just one more casualty in this War Against Humanity. I fear I will die in the not so distant future, never knowing why my tax dollars have been turned against honest, hard-working people who only want the best for themselves, their respective countries, and their future generations.
January 2, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Dear Bobbi, Thank you for writing – I am pulling my hair out with people who insist that either I am imagining it or I am misinformed, that they are“contrails” and no more. It is horrible, and I am in nowhere near the bad shape you are in due to this malfeasance – I have not gone to the lengths you have gone to get some answers, only to be met with either silence, or worse, that you are crazy.
Makes one want to tell the doctors who act as if you are crazy that their years of med school did not do much good, if you are so sick and they cannot figure it out.
I find it very interesting what you said about the morning news shows – I do not watch them, so have never heard the “forecast” you described above. That is downright creepy. The more I dig into this, the more disturbing it gets.
I agree with you – these are our tax dollars at work? Thanks a lot, folks.
I was with my husbands family yesterday for the traditional New Years Day meal, and I brought the subject up, as they had been over when i was feeling lousy, and the only person who was totally engrossed in the issue was my mother-in-law. She talked about the headaches she gets out of nowhere, but said she had never seen Chemtrails in their area. But then she answered herself, kind of chuckling, and said, “well, I never really look up into the sky that often.”
I have found that when people hear about it, after trying to come up with a reasonable explanation, they start gazing upwards much more often, and you find yourself with much agreement after a while.
However, that does not help the core problem – the folks in charge of this obvious mystery are not talking. What do we do?
I am going to write to the President-elect and ask about it, I will most likely get nowhere, but maybe something will happen. I did hear that when Bill Clinton was president, he started to address Chemtrails, then abruptly stopped. So……
If you go to the link I posted, Chemtrail Data, there is a lot of interesting information, and it seems to be a bit of a community – I think you should share your story with them. There is an interesting little contraption that some people invented that they say wards off the bad effects of the Chemtrails, but I just found it. Not committing quite yet.
I DO lean towards one of the reasons for the spraying is to make the pharmaceutical companies more money – and I do wonder if population control is a part of it. It is horrifying to me that we human beings are viewed as “business” when we are sick, and that the head gastroenterologist at Cedars actually said that “Business has been booming in the last couple of years”. Utterly reprehensible.
I wish I had some answers, but I, like you, only have questions. I am so glad you posted, and I am hoping you get better – this is one of the worst stories I have heard. I am so sorry, and if I ever stumble across something that can repel the effects, I will contact you. Right now, all there is is the crystal/copper wire contraption you can find on the link above. It is not expensive, if you can afford it, why not give it a shot?
Take care, hang in there. Maybe this will be stopped with the new administration, if enough people start demanding it. Best, Kelly
P.S. I have a pilates/bodyband video that I work out to, it is set in a gorgeous outside setting, and as I was following it one day, I noticed a chemtrail in the video! How is that for ironic?
January 12, 2009 James Stafford: Have you made any progress on this?
January 21, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo: I’m working on it, Hi-may. By the way, you are not one of the “contrail” people that bugged me. I have been hearing it for years.
May 1, 2009 jazzroc:
The planes you see making trails are the same ones you catch to go on holiday. Their jet engines burn kerosine to produce forward thrust, and leave in their wake carbon dioxide (the same as you exhale) and water (as you do too). This water turns to ice in a fraction of a second, and if the stratosphere (seven miles up) is dry, then the ice slowly sublimes to water vapor and appears to disappear.
If, on the other hand, the stratosphere is humid, then the ice is no longer able to sublime away, and remains, falling at less than a meter per second.
The average speed of the stratosphere over your head is sixty miles per hour, and if the ice were to continue to fall all the way down (which it never does because the contrail ice will inevitably fall into drier layers of the stratosphere and then sublime there), it would land two hundred miles away from you some three hours later.
This makes it very unlikely, does it not, that anything released by aircraft seven miles overhead had anything to do with your sickness…
Whatever illness you suffered could have been an infection breathed upon you by another person, or you could have eaten or drunk something toxic or infectious, or it could be a combination of pollen and exhaust fumes which made you ill.
Did this happen in December, when the cedar pollens are released? Somehow I bet it did, seeing as the word “cedar” crops up in your post.
June 5, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Hello jazzroc, and welcome! Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your comment. While I appreciate your thorough explanation of contrails, I am keenly aware of what makes up a contrail, and if you watch the sky long enough, you can clearly see the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail. The crisscross pattern that lingers in the sky for hours, for starters. Contrails dissipate quite quickly, where as chemtrails linger for hours, slowly spreading out until they manage to simulate some kind of odd cloud.
If regular airplanes were making those trails, there would be massive accidents in the sky – pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each others flight paths in such a fashion as the photo’s depict.
One day you will notice the difference. I, too, was completely skeptical when I first heard about this, then I started watching the sky.
The difference in contrails and chemtrails was so starkly different I was shocked that I had not noticed it before.
And a quick addendum – when Bill Clinton was President, this was an issue he was willing to talk about. This is not some crazy conspiracy theory, it is a fact. It just happens to be one that very few people talk about.
Thank you for visiting, different opinions are always welcome and encouraged as long as civility remains. Best, Kelly
June 5, 2009 jazzroc:
You say “I am keenly aware of what makes up a contrail”.
I beg to differ. You are NOT. My blog quite clearly demonstrates examples of contrails from the very brief to the very persistent. These were first recorded in 1921, and have been carefully quantified and written up in a stream of more than six hundred scientific papers since 1953 – all listed and mentioned in my blog. If you had read and understood them, you would NOT have written what you have just written.
“If you watch the sky long enough, you can clearly see the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.”
You might see the difference between a brief and a persistent contrail, but there is NO way you can honestly point at a persistent trail and say “there is a chemtrail”. It is a cloud of ice crystals almost identical to a natural cirrus cloud, whether it is persistent or not.
“The crisscross pattern that lingers in the sky for hours, for starters.”
Is merely the result of crossing shuttle routes at an angle to each other; the SAME TWO routes, but different aircraft. They may happen, say, at hourly intervals. The typical average speed of the stratosphere in which they fly is around 60 mph. The consequence is what you see.
“Contrails dissipate quite quickly, whereas chemtrails linger for hours, slowly spreading out until they manage to simulate some kind of odd cloud.”
This mantra is constantly repeated by chemtrailers. If you read the Encyclopedia Britannica entry you will find it to be INCORRECT. It states quite clearly that contrails persist when there are humid conditions in the stratosphere.
“If regular airplanes were making those trails, there would be massive accidents in the sky – pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each others flight paths in such a fashion as the photos depict.”
Regular aircraft make these trails for 20% of the time on average. You are correct – “pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each other’s flight paths” – and they DON’T. They fly above or below each other by 2000 feet. At a distance of seven miles (their usual altitude) this 2000 feet is not easy to discriminate. That is why there is Air Traffic Control.
“One day you will notice the difference. I, too, was completely skeptical when I first heard about this, then I started watching the sky.”
You falsely assume I am not older, wiser, and more experienced than you are. This is typical behavior for CT “theorists” who have in the past ridiculed the Max Planck Institute and many other Nobel Laureates in their slanders.
“The difference in contrails and chemtrails was so starkly different I was shocked that I had not noticed it before.”
Unfortunate. You should (and one day, I hope, WILL) be shocked by the lengths your absolute ignorance of the world around you has led you to.
“When Bill Clinton was President, this was an issue he was willing to talk about.”
Well, ole’ Bill should have kept his flies zipped and boned up on physics first.
“This is not some crazy conspiracy theory, it is a fact. It just happens to be one that very few people talk about.”
It IS some crazy conspiracy theory. One day your shame will prevent you talking about it.
“Different opinions are always welcome and encouraged as long as civility remains.”
Believe it or not – I’m doing my best to be civil. The fairy story of “Chicken Little” springs to mind here. I always thought it had a lightweight moral point, but these days I’m not so sure.
How much REAL harm is being done by thousands of people, who through their own ignorance are spreading lies and slander through an information system? And doesn’t this come under the Patriot Act?
June 5, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Interesting, you are quite rabid on this subject – what is your issue, jazzroc? If you want to dismiss the Chemtrail people as crazies, why not just do so and get on with your life? You talk about the great harm being done to people over this Chemtrail issue – what harm is being done, exactly? Some people believe it, some do not. I have yet to hear of some Chemtrail maniac shooting innocent planes out of the sky, it is simply an issue of some people are certain they exist, others are certain they do not. Who is getting so badly “harmed”?
It must be frustrating for you that, as you quote above, from 1953 until now, you have six hundred scientific papers to quote from. Six hundred in fifty-six years? Really not much of a tome insofar as a span of over half a century.
Are you a pilot? My brother is a small aircraft pilot, and we have flown together many times, so I have a tiny bit of Air Traffic Control experience as a passenger next to the pilot.
You assume that I am not aware that you are older. I went to your myspace page, and could clearly see that you are older. However, I do not confuse older with wiser. Older often translates into calcified in ones belief system.
Putting Bill Clinton, one of our best Presidents, down because of personal indiscretions that have zero to do with how extremely smart he is, shows how immediately dismissive you are towards any possible credibility to this issue.
This tells me that your mind is a door that is firmly slammed shut, and there is no point in any further discourse.
I do hope some day you will wake up and realize how much of your precious life you have wasted calling other people ignorant, while you remained mired in your belief with cement shoes and ’scientific’ facts. We do not get told everything by our government, scientist, or military. Personal experience is all an individual has to go by.
Believe it or not, this is a civil response back – as civil as I can be when a total stranger comes on to my site, behaving like a condescending blowhard, and calling me ignorant, telling me I am harming others, and telling me I should be ashamed of myself. Move along, sir.
June 5, 2009 jazzroc:
“Interesting, you are quite rabid on this subject – what is your issue, jazzroc?”
Perhaps you are unaware of your hypocrisy here.
The ISSUE is that you believe (without REAL evidence – for there is none) that your own people are attempting to injure yourself and everyone else with “poison sprays”.
And then you state this as FACT, converting your belief into action.
THAT is RABID. And a form of terrorism, and within the aegis of the Patriot Act.
Me? I’m just carrying out my social responsibilities…
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Good God, man, you really love pointing out how “unaware” and “ignorant” everybody else is. The rabid I referred to is that your blog on the subject literally goes on for miles, and you seem to seek out any and all who disagree with you. You did not seem to fully read and comprehend the first person who posted, because you mentioned that the word “cedar” was in my post, and immediately decided that the unwell feeling was due to cedar pollens being released in December. Wrong.
The woman who wrote the first comment had gone to Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. And yet you have the nerve to condescend to me that I did not read and understand everything on your blog.
Your obsession with the Patriot Act is pretty funny – everything I post is in direct conflict with the Patriot Act – I am exercising my right to free speech and thought, without fear of being hauled away to Gitmo.
It’s called the First Amendment, pumpkin, and despite your attempts to steamroller over my right to free speech, wrapping yourself in some righteous cloak of “social responsibility”, you cannot stop me from writing about my experiences in the world I live in.
I am flattered that I have made the leap, in your fixed, narrow mind, from “ignorant” to “terrorist” in less than 24 hours.
I retract asking you to move along. Keep coming back, as with every comment you post, you emerge as a rigid, bullying, troglodyte. And Gosh Darn, I really need someone like you to “enlighten” me. Why, you should be on payroll somewhere for carrying out your “social responsibilities” with such zeal. You threw civility out the window when you came into my space and started hurling insults. Keep up the good work, you really have a way with people. Ta!
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
No matter where you wander in your invective, the ISSUE STILL REMAINS that you believe (without REAL evidence – for there is none) that your own people are attempting to injure yourself and everyone else with “poison sprays”.
And then you state this as FACT, converting your belief into action, broadcasting this and conveying it to whoever has the misfortune to receive it.
These inimical actions CONFIRM you as an enemy of the United States and her people.
With your lies and false witness, you’s da enemy NOW…
How d’ya like those orange boiler suits! Ha! And those “showers”? Pffff – don’t look good to me!
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Oh honey – You have shown yourself to be a certified loon. You seem incapable of refuting anything I point out, you, in the style of Rush Limbaugh, state what you believe to be yours, consequently the only, truth, and if anybody disagrees, you start screaming the exact same argument, with your liberal use of the caps button.
This is not a discussion, is is a diatribe. Yours. Any evidence I have you would debunk, no matter what the source. I have gone from trying to have a discussion with you, to getting irritated by you, to laughing at you, but now I kind of feel sorry for you. I feel bad for the fact that someone with a life experience that differs from yours causes in you such uncontrollable wrath and crumbling ability to interact. Try to take care of yourself. My guess is you suffer from high blood pressure and if you keep this up, you could very well stroke out. Try a little Yoga, sweetie. Or take a valium.
I am happy for you to put this exchange up on your “Issues” page. You and your little gang of sycophants can rip me to shreds on the safety of your blog. Don’t expect a visit from me, I have no need to defend myself against folks this extremely mono-focused and unreasonable.
You know, science is not rigid and cemented in facts once proven. It is a constantly evolving medium, and to hold onto it as tightly as you do is a recipe for being left behind. I am sure you remember how Galileo was persecuted to his last days for his forward thinking progress – he did not stay static within the safety of the status quo. It is a relief that you are a simple citizen with an opinion, just like myself. God forbid you were in a position of governmental power – it would be the Spanish Inquisition all over again.
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
To anyone who is following this nonsense, my curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over to Mr. Jazzroc’s “Issues” page (and MAN does this guy have “issues”) – and I am honored to be in such interesting company!
It is made up of of many different people and their Chemtrail experiences, and jazzroc does not disappoint. He sticks to his guns, with some really fun and snappy retorts from him. It is too bad that he has such a short fuse and inability to address a single point from the opposition, as his cause suffers for it, but it makes for great entertainment, if one is so inclined.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
“Oh honey” May I call you “darling”? “you start screaming the exact same argument, with your liberal use of the caps button.” You mean, repeating what the issue is? You are bearing false witness against your neighbors – and you call it “free speech”! 🙂
The Bible, Exodus 20:2–17 Deuteronomy 5:6–21 Exodus 34:11–27: 16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
The Patriot Act is described as: a law defining “domestic terrorism” as acts committed in the United States “dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws,” if the U.S. government determines that they “appear to be intended” to “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion,” or “to intimidate or coerce a civilian population.” Such ambiguous language allows for a loose interpretation that might violate civil liberties and human rights. Yours.
“You know, science is not rigid and cemented in facts once proven. It is a constantly evolving medium, and to hold onto it as tightly as you do is a recipe for being left behind.”
Well, YOU haven’t paid any attention to it at all, and show no signs of doing so. May I quote you, darling? – “and ’scientific’ facts. We do not get told everything by our government, scientist, or military. Personal experience is all an individual has to go by.” Incorrect. Science is a way of improving upon “personal experience”. You should try it sometime. It can be perfectly accessible to you.
“it would be the Spanish Inquisition all over again.”
It’s YOUR government’s policy – not mine. I fear that a world under the Inquisition mightn’t be as bad as a world stacked full of ignorant liars with blogs on the Internet, raising everyone else’s suspicion of innocent, capable, and hard-working professional people, and meanwhile distracting everyone’s attention from discovering the true causes of respiratory ailments.
June 6, 2009 Tomas Hradcky:
Alas, one of my worst fears. A certain type of “Jazz/Rock” musician (with all due respect to the many great musicians I’ve worked with) who is one who will ultimately taser themselves thinking they are protecting all of us from the scourge of three chord power rock. Or in this case, oddly enough, chemtrails. JazzRoc, it might better serve your valuable time to lose yourself in an infinite II/V circle of fifths loop. It would certainly be safer and more peaceful for the rest of us. Breathe boy! Best,Tomas
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Ahh, it was only a matter of time before my suspicions about you were confirmed – you are now quoting the Bible. A questionable source of solid information, that book. You can call me anything you want, angel. You already have, but thanks for asking at this late date. You know, I used to be insistent upon having the last word in every argument, until one day I woke up and realized how childish I felt. I am moving on, and I hope you do to, only because you have a family, and I am sure they would like some of your attention, attention you are squandering going round and round in circles with a total stranger. Try to show a little restraint in your obsessive behavior, as you may look up one day and notice that your family has left you to your righteous insanity via the computer keyboard. But it has been fun, darling. I have grown rather fond of your lunatic responses. But, it is a beautiful day outside, no Chemtrails, just one lone Contrail, so I am going for a hike.
But before I go, Jazz, I have one question. “It’s YOUR government’s policy – not mine.” Well, yes it is! So why in the world do you give a damn? Let the silly fools in the United States blog their opinions – enjoy looking down on us and laugh amongst yourself and your friends. You are taking your sense of self importance and “social responsibility” to a bit of an extreme, when you are not even in the same country. It’s a bit puzzling…….
Tomas – you kill me. I was going to suggest that Mr. Jazzroc go back to practicing his scales and working on his art, but you beat me to it.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
Haha. Tomas, I LIKE the occasional 3-chord power rock, but certainly not for any extended period! The same goes for the other idea (I think!)
Safer – no. More peaceful – no.
We’re a technologically-based civilisation now, and the most dangerous thing we can do is retreat from an understanding of the science that holds us up.
We are BIG – and you KNOW how hard we will fall – unless we can build ourselves a parachute.
“Chemtrails” don’t exist at all. They are a symptom of our failure to properly understand the world around us, and an evil that must be countered, before it is backed up and amplified by other world events, such as the economic consequences of declining fossil fuels, possible climate change, maybe a world recession (oh, we have that), and worsening instability in the Middle East (oh, we have that), and a growing list of similar chickens coming home to roost.
“Chemtrails? WHO ordered THEM?”
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
Kelly, from the outset you haven’t taken REAL notice of what I am saying.
Search Google for “paper” “aviation” “saturated” “atmosphere” “contrails” “-chemtrails” “-aerosols” (yes – all at once!)
These are properly-written scientific papers which directly contradict your “hypothesis”.
You haven’t challenged me to produce evidence because you quite obviously are unwilling to risk changing your belief. This only goes to confirm what I have as civilly as possible indicated to you, which is that your blog and activities are harmful. You pretend that it’s only an itty-bitty thing, but you deceive yourself. This blog is not a US-only manifestation. It IS worldwide. You have no evidence (for there can be no evidence for a non-existent entity) and what you suggest flies in the face of established science – and is just – LIES.
As you are too cowardly to confront your own ignorance you resort to abuse, namely “quite rabid – calcified in ones belief system – immediately dismissive – your mind is a door that is firmly slammed shut – how much of your precious life you have wasted – mired in your belief with cement shoes and ’scientific’ facts – condescending blowhard – condescend to me – your attempts to steamroller over my right to free speech – wrapping yourself in some righteous cloak – your fixed, narrow mind – rigid, bullying, troglodyte – started hurling insults – certified loon – incapable of refuting – start screaming – uncontrollable wrath and crumbling ability – you suffer from high blood pressure – you could very well stroke out – your little gang of sycophants – extremely mono-focused and unreasonable – short fuse and inability to address a single point – your obsessive behavior – your lunatic responses”
Mirror, mirror, on the wall………..
June 6, 2009 Tomas Hradcky:
The only thing “REAL” here is that you, JazzRoc, are in a world of your own. What wonderful world it must be. At least for you. By the way, an original idea of your own would be nice once and a while. Cheers.
p.s. I await your own scientific studies and hard wrought evidence and thank God I never had to play a gig with you.
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Okay Jazzy, Since you take zero responsibility for being the first in the comments section to start the name-calling, I will ignore your severe hypocrisy in your last post, and simply address your calling me a coward for not offering up any data, even though I had a link in my original post, a fact you have conveniently ignored.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
I will post for each. First, Rense:
‘Deep Sky’ source – is not a credible source, is it?
“substance that showed up on ATC radars as a ‘haze’” – as does a supersaturated contrail
“radar returns are the signature of the fine aluminum particles found in laboratory tests of contaminated rain taken in Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999″ – how do they know that? Did they take the samples from Ontario to Vancouver? Really! Are YOU THAT credulous?
“The lab analysis found reflective quartz particles in the chemtrail fallout – and levels of aluminum FIVE TIMES higher than Ontario’s maximum permissible health safety standards” – dried soil dust will do the same: CLAY is aluminum silicate.
DND eventually replied, “It’s not us.” – Because it wasn’t them.
‘Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming’ – requires 20 million tons of material per shot, 250,000 tanker flights, and money that has never been available (and more than the billion bucks mentioned!).
“a predicted doubling of heat-trapping C02 in the atmosphere over the next 40 years” – no prediction of CO2 heating has EVER borne fruit. It’s strange, because it does in lab conditions – just not out there in the world. There are still as yet unknown “sinks” for it.
“warned that the stratospheric spraying of sunlight-reflecting chemicals could ‘destroy the ozone layer’” – more true of the oxides of nitrogen and sulfur than anything else, because it is nearly impossible to get solid materials in large quantities into the lower polar thermospheres.
“spraying something that regularly clouds their screens” – as I said before – that’s what a heavy contrail can do.
“A scientist working at Wright-Pat recently told reporter” – is not a credible source, is it?
“under pressure according to Kucinich” – due to HIS pressure, according to Kuchinich. Check it out.
“The unusual white plumes are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them” – it’s warmer the higher you go in the stratosphere, which is stable, and layered with layers of differing humidities. Learn your science.
According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, andhumidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes – this is a plain lie. Check.
“artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation”. – But it is also known that it can be done vastly more cheaply by salt spray from ocean-going ships. So why pick a dearer option?
Complete bullshit follows…
William Thomas quit discussing anything with me in a hurry. He and his back-off feature in my blog.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
NASA ON CONTRAILS
Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail “life-spans”, contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading.
Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky,perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state.
Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where theairplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don’t. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky.
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind.
Contrails are “human-induced” clouds since they are formed by water vapor condensing and freezing on particles from airplane exhaust. Contrails are always made of ice particles, due to the very cold temperatures at high altitude. Other types of clouds can be formed by water vapor that condenses on particles which are present in the atmosphere due to many sources, such as from volcanoes or dust storms, not specifically from aircraft exhaust. Those clouds are sometimes made of water droplets, and sometimes ice crystals, depending on the temperature where they form.
Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C).
Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds.
Contrails were first noticed during high-altitude flights in the 1920’s. However, interest in contrails really blossomed during WWII when bombers could be sighted from miles away. In fact, numerous WWII veteran accounts tell of problems to aviation due to massive contrail formations. Planes could not find their targets, and sometimes collided with each other. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail.
NOAA ON CONTRAILS
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Funny, when I consulted my magic 8 ball, it predicted that you would respond in this exact fashion.
I am sure William Thomas quit discussing anything with you in a hurry. How can anyone discuss anything with you when all you do is discredit everyone except your own sources? You don’t discuss, you dismiss. At this point I am speaking from experience with you, and you have become a bore.
June 7, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo: Fully aware of what a contrail is, thank you. Again, fully aware of what a contrail is. Thank you. In case you did not quite understand, I understand what a contrail is. Thank you. Contrails are not the topic. Thank you.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
That Rense stuff all falls down. The radar images are of heavy clouds, and there’s NO link to aluminum and silica on the opposite side of the continent – which is very likely to have been wind-blown soil. Have you lost all reason?
Sure, you “know about contrails”.
Then WHY are you claiming this: “Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails. Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind.” to be “chemtrails”?
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“On a busy day,” McCallum said, “with the right atmospheric conditions, these aircraft will form contrails that could accumulate and remain in the sky for hours. The Canadian forces and the Government of Canada have not been involved in activities such as you describe in your letter, nor would we allow any other party to conduct any form of aerial activity that could endanger the health of Canadian citizens.”
THAT is the sensible part of this.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?
The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by the department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.”
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Your articles on chemtrails are pure fantasy. I worked for a gas turbine engine manufacturer for 10 years in engineering. The fuel purity requirements are extremely tight for jet fuel. No commercial airline would dream of sacrificing millions of dollars worth of engines to support some crazy government depop. plot. For every pound of fuel burned you get almost a pound of water vapor which at 30,000 feet and -60 F freezes to form, guess what, ice crystals – in cloud-like contrails. When there are on average 7,000 commercial aircraft in the air over the US every day that is a lot of water vapor. If they were trying to burn a heavy particle load in the fuel the engine fuel nozzles and hydromechanical fuel controls would plug up causing shutdowns and failures not good for the safety of passengers or the bottom line.
Follow the money man and do some homework!” Doug A
“most of the chemtrail spraying platforms are robotic craft under complete computer guidance.”
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
This a phoney Photoshopped forgery, typical of the site it’s in.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Dr. Rosalie Bertell is a world famous radiation scientist who can be trusted. She says electromagnetic weapons have the ability to transmit effects such as earthquake induction across intercontinental distances to any selected target site on the globe with force levels equivalent to major nuclear explosions.”
HAARP has a gigawatt of power. To apply the force of Hiroshima’s SMALL nuclear bomb (10 Kiloton) to “earthquake induction” it would (if it were 100% efficient) have to work flat out for sixty-nine weeks!
THAT shows exactly how ridiculous her claims are.
In all civility, you are being mislead by fraudsters, charlatans, crooks, and people with Alzheimers, down a path of misery and disorder, due to your own ignorance.
Please do not lead others down this same path.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
From William Thomas: “SmT gazed in disbelief at another schoolbook picture showing a helicopter seeding the ocean with iron particles. These desperate “IronX” experiments did indeed trigger plankton “blooms” that, in turn, transferred tons of atmospheric C02 underwater as those carbon-inhaling critters eventually died and sank to the seafloor.
But – oops! – his kid’s science book fails to mention that the resulting ocean blooms also sucked all available oxygen from the seawater, suffocating all marine life in massive, spreading “dead zones”. [Chemtrails Confirmed ’04]“
So once more this pseudo-science “journalist” relies on “Chemtrails Confirmed” for his clincher. (That’s rather like asking a burglar to fix your door-lock!)
There are thousands of species of ocean phytoplankton. The majority of them photosynthesize airborne CO2 to sugars, liberating oxygen, exactly as green land plants do. Thus injecting an iron compound with a specific gravity similar to that of sea-water (so that it remains in the top 100 meters of solar-illuminated ocean) would help to oxygenate the planet – if that were ever to become necessary. Of course, one wouldn’t use helicopters, but it would a good use of ocean-going supertankers. A helicopter might be used for a small local test, because small sea organisms respond rapidly (within hours) to feeding.
There are also, however, ocean-going anaerobic phytoplanktons. They are blue or red in color, and are a small minority of the whole. They respond better to high sea temperatures, deplete oxygen (just as we and fungi do) and would suffocate oxygen breathing life wherever they were in the majority. Their numbers are kept low by the oxygen liberated by the more prolific denizens of the sunlit shallows.
Scientists know about all of these things, and would NOT go out there to create such apocryphal accidents “cooked up” by “Chemtrails Confirmed”.
Only ignorance leads you to believe such rubbish. It’s a bit like arguing that scientists invented fertilizers on land that killed the contents of a greenhouse with poisonous mushrooms. But that wouldn’t be tried would it – because gardeners everywhere would laugh them down.
Those experiments are no more “desperate” than fertilizing soil. I’m an organic permaculturalist by preference, but that wouldn’t stop me adding iron and other trace elements to my soil if I thought it needed it. The same goes for the mineral-deficient centres of all Earth’s oceans.
It’s merely commonsense, and SCIENCE.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
Tomas Hradcky: “By the way, an original idea of your own would be nice once and a while.”
Here’s a few: http://www.reverbnation.com/jazzroc – enjoy!
Hi kiwibro25! – “Jazzroc is a spook” – Yep. Secret as hell. Check my website here – the first song is for YOU
“trying to cover up the truth” – Oh yep. You found me out. On myspace.com/jazzroc, was it? The one with pictures of me and my family, my daughter’s wedding, my photography, my composed jazz and rock music, my transcribed and synthesized classical music, my blogs on contrails/volcanoes, “intelligent” design, tory canvassers, and religion?
“he’s probably working for the govt” – Damn. Where’s my money? (Don’t you know its very rude to talk past people?)
“chemtrails are very real & very dangerous” – Let’s see…
Morgellons can’t be coming out of the engines (2,000 degrees C), and barium/aluminum can’t be coming out of the engines
A single/shot would require 3.4 MILLION TONS, a silver single/shot works out at 8.5 MILLION DOLLARS. ? – ER, NO
“dont believe the misleading bullshit” – YET AGAIN, SCIENCE IS BULLSHIT
“this guy types” – THE TRUTH. AT LAST! (Another rude guy who talks past you!)
(TEXT FROM “SECRET” WEBSITE)
“I’m not convinced chemtrails are contrails. I suspect that people like JazzRoc are paid disinformation agents because of their methods and misleading tactics. I could be totally wrong and it would be wonderful if chemtrails didn’t exist, but from my personal experience and from hearing other people talk, makes me think otherwise. What do you think? Please post an intelligent comment about what you think of JazzRoc and others like him and not just an insult 🙂
I have received lots of messages about other debunkers on youtube. Many people suspect they are the SAME person using different profiles. Here is a list of profiles that people think JazzRoc also goes by:
If you suspect other profiles he is using please post it in the comments or message me.”
The COMMENTS section is interesting:
deepwatertree – almost forgot about a user name: coachgreywolf. So anyways, picture this…what if all these accounts are created and monitored by artificial intelligence programs that have been given the ability to converse like humans and respond to questions or statements? Why not…this would be the perfect place to test such systems…google IS big brother, ya know? Check out the following video on you tube, and see what you think…”Artificial General Intelligence: Now Is the Time” – MUCH LOVE TO ALL MY EARTH PEOPLE FAMILY! – DEATH TO THE MACHINES THAT CONTROL US! Okay, here is my theory:
Jazzroc, EarlMcCrackin, MrPayt, and all of these other “users” are not actually human. Think about it…can there really be THAT many guys that get paid to sit at a desk all day and post disinfo comments on truth seekers pages? Some of these accounts have only been active for a few months, yet “they” have viewed thousands and thousands of videos…is it humanly possible to watch that many videos AND respond back and forth? Unless they sit there for 20 hours a day, I doubt it. (NO!)
Silentkill666 – lol I wish I got paid…
Apocalypticscreams – Well, here’s two more to go on your list: imi72 & blackcatcrying. Hi, I’m putting together a list of all accounts on YT that I suspect are agents and paid trolls. Is it ok if I use your list of Jazzrocs fake accounts?
awakekiwi – i sent this below to jazzroc: hey man, you say youve studied science yet you think that depleted uranium is harmless in the field. i guess that says it all, your an idiot or living in denial or your just paid to sound like an idiot, either way.. your your own worst enemy! sniggle.. 🙂
dbootsthediva – Another person that I believe to be a debunker Spook is SENTRYNOX. Jazzroc is an evil person for his persistent posts in helping the government and the media to continue to cover up these chemtrails and the harmful effects it has on the entire population of the Planet. Jazzroc is a prime example of a paid debunker, whose job is to go around and post on all the damning evidence of the YOUTUBE videos the entire world is posting in which to try and deter others from the truth. Here is a video link to one of the videos Jazzroc posted many replys of probably scripted lines the government hands him to type, just like they hand out what stories the media is to report on. Can’t post the link I think so the comment is on the user name of DARGONTeraAlpha Name of video is ChemTrails: What are they? /watch?v=5TKKtjxTO3g this is the last part of the lint after the /
mish6874 – On my vid chemtarils uk government admits deadly spraying, ‘TheFlange666‘ has been rather busy trying to tell people that chemtails are nothing more than car exaust and we are all using chemtails as a reason not to own up and take our responsibility for polluting the planet. Don’t know if it is jazzroc but a possible disinfo agent.
ozobezleeb – Silentkill666, maybe a new jazztwat.
greenmts – BLOCK & DELETE.
sirbadman – Hey guys, I got an email from jazzroc that was calling me a liar and slimeball disinformation artist or something similiar. It is probably because I posted elsewhere for users to have a look at this page. In the email he detailed information about himself and then asked me what I had done apart from “lie”. I have since blocked him from contacting me but I think there is something wrong with him asking me for information about myself – and using inflammatory writing to perhaps provoke me into revealing such information. Has anyone else had anything similar?
newton2013 – If he grew up around base – “army brat”…Then his information is from, the information circles that he would encounter in that environment. He does say..”A high achiever at school. I was a “forces brat”, so travelled around the UK and abroad” They have re-educated those in the field. He lives on the field, so what do you expect. I wonder, for instance, he thinks Depleted Uranium is a harmless substance that can be left on a battlefield without causing harm to future generations. He’s not necessarily paid to do what he’s doing, It may just be a function of what his being has been taught in that environment. His argument must be right after all, he’s all into guarding the most powerful country on the planet, and he grew up there- How could the information he has be wrong… eh? My Opinion. (Grrr – a big fat LIE!)
4absurdity – thanks for your message! yes it’s completely obvious that jazzrock is a fake. why should someone copy paste the same comment to about every chemtrail video? and why should he want to communicate with us, when he thinks that er are all nuts? so much effort to heal some paranoids from their point of view?! that he is using different accounts completes the picture 😉
givemeabreakgivemeab – Jazzroc will just waste your time and energy. I learned the hard way by engaging him in a discussion about a video I made. He trolls the web and posts the same “soda pop” crap to initiate never-ending arguments. He attacks anyone who suggests that chemtrails may not be simple contrails. His tactic is to bombard you with “scientific evidence”, he refers to his own website as proof and responds with a barrage of insults and bizarre accusations (such as “you are either uneducated or evil”) which derail any reasonable discussion. Classic misdirection. The only logical explanation for his behavior is he is paid to do this. Spread the word.
badInvention – Ive seen planes flying the same altitude, one leaving a small contrail,the the other a huge trail of “ice crystalls” wich turns into a cloud of haze. This can not make any sense. All planes fly a specific flight route, the same path, just at different heights (according to air traffic regulations). Why do we have chess boards strung across our skies? why do these planes circle my town? (I do not even live close to an airport, that they might have to circle) Not to mention the dangarous flight behavior of these chembirds. Why do my eyes burn and my chest hurt on a “contrail” hazed up day ? Why does flora at home suffer from something that looks like chemical burn marks? someone out there wants to make us very weak and sick.
Zigga12345 – Jazz Rock sucks cock, he chats the same crap over and over, i think he could be a piece of shit.
kissthisguy88 – Thanks for the message and creating the profile. Most people that have chemtrail videos don’t realize that they can silence debunkers like jazzroc. The best thing to do is block him and delete everything he has written. Don’t even brother to have an exchange with him. Believe me, block and delete will stop him cold in his tracks. AND other people new to chemtrails that might be watching for the first time don’t have to read his BS. Thanks to YouTube for giving video makers powerful tools like block and delete.
sirbadman – Aah so mister Jazzroc received some dirty money to set up his website and is using deceptive methods in youtube. Thanks heaps for your help in debunking the contrail con artist. So what is up with these chem trails then? And why are so many people convinced they are harmless?
Apocalypticscreams – Thanks for the heads-up, I had my suspicions about him but never realised he had multiple accounts. If that is the case he is 100% a paid disinfo agent. No one would spend so much time “debunking” chemtrails if they knew it to be a load of crap, they (the three lettered agencies) only roll out the COINTELPRO, disinfo monkeys when people are getting too close for comfort. I see this as an own goal by the trolls and spooks: the more they try debunking chemtrails, the more credibility and reason to carry on with raising awareness they give us. Well done Jazzroc, you shot yourself in the foot.
Blackheart77ce – Jazz is a shill. Everything Jazz says is refutable, but that’s a waste of time. He will get a new name and keep trolling. If you see him, point him out. The damage some people do to truth can only be minimized. Keep passing along the truth despite people like Jazz!
BaZooKa4314 – I had to comment because if you pay attention and keep an open mind you will notice all sorts of things that are going on in this world. Informing yourself and listening to what other people have to say can tell you a lot more about what IS going on that what you hear on the news. I am free to make my own opinions on matters the same as anybody else, I am free to state that opinion in any way abiding the law. I don’t have much to say about jazroc except that his opinions seem to be more for disproving someone elses opinions and there IS something to be said about that……
WhereIsTruth – how can you have any level of intelligence and not see what chemtrails are…once they are pointed out to you. i mean come on…there are shots with one plane spraying while another similar plane at the same basic altitude is leaving no contrail at all. this is the clearest EVIL act the EVILDOERS are doing.
drewswebsite – First, epoxynous showed up in my CHEMTRAILS video #1 comments section, going on about contrails and chemtrails being the same, etc.. I called him out as a either ignorant or on the job. Then this same attitude and mindset shows back up in the comments section only this time the screenname is “timmcal“. And then “jazzroc” Same exact MO. All three veritable ROCKET SCIENTISTS!! LOL More like the THREE STOOGES… only not funny…
diecrewdeluks – looks like we need to put jazzrock to the sword you fucking asshole haha him and dreamlandnightmare shoudl get married lmao
RonBaggerman – whatever he is, he’s someone without a life…..i think he’s all of the above. but for sure he’s dangerous in the sense that he surely confuses and intimidates some people. anyway the anti chemtrail movement is growing day by day here in holland and everywhere around the world. it’s all about consciousness,,,,,as yogi bear said: if you start to look, then it’s amazing what you can see. check my CT vids.
jefflettis – I think he is either a spook or a mind controlled goofball. He is also posting on Morgellens videos that mention a link to chemtrails. I go out and look up in the sky practically every day and see them spraying. I’ve called the EPA and got no response.
HumildeHumano – jazzroc is a debunker robot. Fuck debunkers ! Fuck the system ! Fuck chemtrailers ! Fuck New World Order ! Fuck New Age ! Free Human !
ozobezleeb – What ever this jazzprick say’s is pointless, Chemtrails are true, they are happening every day, and soon will be taken on by all as fact.
Skywitness – Unfortunately jazzroc is a spook who appears to have sold his soul to his NWO handlers. His purpose is to confuse, discourage, and to try and create doublemindedness within everyone who is searching for the truth concerning chemtrails. Video evidence for chemtrails, remains stronger than any of the disinfo words that come from jazzroc and the other spooks in his club.
Matteo42 – Jazzroc can lick my asshole.
JusticePistoff – I think that’s some badass fighter on jazzroc’s page. Can’t say I’ve seen that before. I guess being a spook does have its benefits.
Food shortage is being created by creating drought, killing bees not just with spray, but also by fooling with electromagnetics of the atmosphere, animals dying everywhere of foot-in-mouth, blue tongue, rift valley virus, a goat 2 days ago of anthrax, pigs in vietnam a few days ago from an unknown new respiratory illness, and then there’s the bird flu.“
The thing is, jbreezes, that these things have been on Earth for the best part of 4 BILLION YEARS.
Sometimes, methinks, it appears that the only NEW phenomena are the NWO and YOU. Now why don’t YOU BOTH “die everywhere of foot-in-mouth, blue tongue, rift valley virus“.
“foot-in-mouth” you CERTAINLY have…
Why, John, if you wish to debate with me, do you use an anonymous email address?
1.) Great photo. Where did you get it? It looks too good to be true. Maybe it has been PhotoShopped?
It was part of a set of forty pictures taken by a professional photographer.
2.) I did a search for the weblink/photo on Google, and there were no hits for the “jeffwell.jpg”. I even checked out Airliners.net and there was no photo there either!
It probably DID come from airliners.net. Try http://contrailscience.com
Uncinus writes: “On June 12 2005 from 14:59 to 15:06 Bejing time (~07:00 UTC) pilot and photographer Jeff Well took a series of 45 photos of an exceptionally colourful iridescent contrail produced by an A340-313X aircraft in 9600 m (31,500 feet) altitude, just 1200 m higher as his position on the same route over eastern China.”
3.) Your explination of “Burst Condensation” contardicts your assertions on how/when contrails are made coming out of the turbofan jet engine.
Yes. That’s because there are two entirely different sets of events taking place: the first is the condensation of steam into ice particles, the second the burst condensation of supercooled droplets of water over the point of minimum pressure (and maximum cooling) just ahead and above the maximum wing chord – on its topside. Learn to spell.
4.) The size progression of the supercooled water vapor: does it remain water vapor, or does it turn into ice? — you know, since it’s “supercooled”.
It isn’t vapor at all: it is a “Burst frozen” cloud of droplets of super-cooled water which are picking up more molecules of water out of the marginally-supersaturated air.
WIKI says: “Supercooling or Supercooled water is the process of lowering the temperature of a liquid below its freezing point, without it becoming a solid or a gas.
A liquid below its standard freezing point will crystallize in the presence of a seed crystal or nucleus around which a crystal structure can form. However, lacking any such nucleus, the liquid phase can be maintained all the way down to the temperature at which crystal homogeneous nucleation occurs. The homogeneous nucleation can occur above the glass transition where the system is an amorphous, that is, non-crystalline solid.
Water can freeze at 273.15 K (0 °C or 32 °F) but it can also be supercooled at standard pressure down to its crystal homogeneous nucleation at almost 231 K (−42 °C). If cooled at a rate on the order of 106 K/s, the crystal nucleation can be avoided and water becomes a glass. Its glass transition temperature is much colder and harder to determine, but studies estimate it at about 165 K (−108 °C). Glassy water can be heated up to approximately 150 K (−123 °C). In the range of temperatures between 231 K (−42 °C) and 150 K (−123 °C) experiments find only crystal ice.
Droplets of supercooled water often exist in stratiform and cumulus clouds. They form into ice when they are struck by the wings of passing airplanes and abruptly crystallize. (This causes problems with lift, so aircraft that are expected to fly in such conditions are equipped with a deicing system.) Freezing rain is also caused by supercooled droplets.”
5.) When they increase in size they run through a progression of light frequencies? How does size relate to light frequency?
They are very small in size, and as they increase in size they “match” the interference properties of various wavelengths of the sunlight passing through them. That’s my opinion.
6.) To interfere means the lack of synergy, thus the result is “refraction”.
You’re wrong here. There is nothing “frictional” about interference. The physics paper that makes this case quite completely argues for a refractive process, and even manages a credible simulation.
7.) Petroleum has the rainbow characteristic you mention — You know, mix gas (in this case, kerosene) with water and what do you see? A rainbow effect… Duh! And wouldn’t you know, jet fuel is petroleum based…
Then this physics paper would be wasted on YOU.
All the properties of super-saturated air indicate that it must be pure. The phenomenon, if you hadn’t noticed, starts at the point of maximum cooling, which is just forward of the maximum wing chord, on the top surface of the wing, in PURE (but supersaturated) AIR. Not a LIKELY point to start “spraying” is it, right under the passengers’s eyes! (But actually the droplet size is probably too fine to be visible over the wing.)
8.) Burst Condensation relates to marine life, as explained in many abstracts on the subject. Jazzroc, you are slowly coming unraveled from the onslaught of proof we “chemtrailers” have provided, and thus have shown that you are nothing mors than a bald-faced liar. And what is so great, is that you will delete this post, giving me the last word!
So I checked by typing “burst condensation” into Google… and this is what immediately rolled out:
Massive bursts in condensation nuclei (CN) concentration were recorded at a … In a previous paper the burst phenomenon was linked to the movement of the …
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1879678 – Similar pages
by JL GRENFELL – 1999 – Cited by 24 – Related articles – All 8 versions
Key words: aerosol, asymptotic, burst, condensation, nucleation. 1. Introduction … and condensation to both be important during a nucleation burst. …
http://www.springerlink.com/index/W4862551P4134428.pdf – Similar pages
by BD Shaw – 2003 – Related articles – All 4 versions
For an underwater burst at moderate (or great) depth, essentially all of the … The descent of water and spray from the column and from condensation in the …
http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/nukeffct/undrwtr.html – 12k – Cached – Similar pages
Top > Case Details > Burst of a phenolic resin reactor due to abnormal … Condensation became insufficient because the tubes of the condenser were blocked. …
shippai.jst.go.jp/en/Detail?fn=0&id=CC1000101& – 29k – Cached – Similar pages
File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint – View as HTML
CU’s section on Bose-Einstein Condensation can be found at: …. Why burst energy and how. much? Why is there a cold remnant. afterwards? …
phet.colorado.edu/admin/get-contribution-file.php?contribution_file_id=708 – Similar pages
“marine life, as explained in many abstracts on the subject”, eh?
As you can see, there’s nothing to do with live sea creatures, only something to do with the opposite of what you indicate. In other words, you are a liar, which is why you find yourself here…
re your second letter. It concerns material found at the site below:
which refers to this picture on airliners.net.
In the comments on this page Uncinus and I had this conversation:
on 29 Aug 2008 at 8:50 am jazzroc
“Very pretty. But what is it? It’s clearly not a regular exhaust contrail, as the trail seems to start actually ON the wing, and it has a weird rainbow effect you don’t find in exhaust contrails.”
Hi Uncinus. There are TWO elements to what you see. The first (starting at the wing) is the aerodynamic element, as the pressure drop above the wing initiates the precipitation of fine ice crystals into the air. The second is the exhaust water from the jets which is condensing directly into ice crystals. The aircraft is flying high in a partly super-satured stratospheric layer, and the picture wasn’t taken from sea level – because the sky is BLACK. (I can appreciate that a modicum of photographic contrast and colour saturation modification has taken place.)
“It’s actually an aerodynamic contrail. It’s formed by the reduction of pressure in the air as it moves over the wing. When the pressure of a gas falls, then its temperature also falls (the same principle as is used by your refrigerator). The reduced temperature cause small drops of water to condense, which then may freeze. The drops get larger as more water condenses on them. The different sized drops refract water by different amounts, which accounts for the “rainbow” effect.”
Well, I’ve covered that it’s TWO effects. I wish to argue strongly that your “growing water droplets” is way off. What were you thinking? You KNOW that the temperatures of the stratosphere don’t rise above freezing point until far above normal aircraft flight altitudes!
The effect (and its mostly visible on the aircraft exhaust ices due to their relative abundance here) is due to INTERFERENCE – not refraction.
Due to stratospheric super-saturation, the crystals are progressively growing in size as the agglomerate more ice from the “excess” water vapour.
As they progressively GROW in thickness (they’re flat hexagonal crystals), they also progressively INTERFERE with specific light frequencies. So you are “bound” to get a rainbow-like effect. Not only that, but subsets of these frequencies will “come around again”, so you’ll get two or three “rainbows”. But as they larger, the crystals get more “exotic” in shape, and degrade this initially “pure” physical phenomenon, until after a quarter of a mile the effect is gone – scattered away.
At high cruising speeds, the wave vortex of each wing isn’t as pronounced as it is at low speeds and higher angles of attack, but here you CAN see that the tip vortices are “coming inboard” as they follow the aircraft’s wave vortex.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 9:21 am Uncinus
The reason I was talking about growing water droplets was mostly to address the low-level aerodynamic contrails, such as those seen in the video. They can form where it is too warm for ice to form.
Regarding “what I was thinking”, my explanation is partially cribbed from the Gieren poster:
Which is actually from a paper on the sequence of photos from which this one was taken. In the poster they say: The ice crystal size distributions (solid curves) are generated from homogeneous freezing of liquid aerosol droplets (dashed). The smallest droplets freeze first, followed by freezing of larger droplets, until all available aerosol particles are depleted .… Mie theory was used to calculate optical properties from the size distributions,
assuming spherical ice particles. It then explains this exact color distribution, which matches his assumptions. “Refraction” was probably wrong, I’ve changed the text slightly to reflect “different optical properties”. The formation of aerodynamic contrails is a very different process to exhaust contrails, it’s not fully understood, but it’s not surpising that the resultant crystals can be very different.
As for where the photo was taken:
On June 12 2005 from 14:59 to 15:06 Bejing time (~07:00 UTC) pilot and photographer Jeff Well took a series of 45 photos of an exceptionally colourful iridescent contrail produced by an A340-313X aircraft in 9600 m (31,500 feet) altitude, just 1200 m higher as his position on the same route over eastern China.
I must admit though, I’m not exactly clear if liquid water can exist at that altitude and temperature, even for the fraction of a second he implies. Deposition (the opposite of sublimation) seems more in keeping with what I’ve read.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 9:51 am jazzroc
Haha, so I was right about the photo!
I read the pdf AFTER I’d posted, and with some trepidation, when I realized the solemnity of the source!
But I now suspect they also hadn’t properly considered the temperatures involved, and that also the solid ice deposition and accretion would produce by interference the same sequence (in effect) as their results demonstrated – including the scattering they mentioned.
If exhaust steam at 1100 deg C cools down a 1000 degrees to visibility, hence changing phase to liquid at 100 degrees taking out 540 Kcal/gram in a fraction of a second, I cannot see how it could waste much time at all making a second phase change to solid at 0 degrees taking out only 80 Kcal/gram and dropping a further 30 degrees.
The strange nature of the ice trail leading from the trailing edge of the wing hold’s one’s attention, doesn’t it? It is “backlit” by reflected sunlight off the top of the wing, as well as lit by sunlight from above.
Quite a show. As ever, your site is superb…
on 29 Aug 2008 at 11:24 am Uncinus
I think this paper explains the situation better. Note Figure 1 in this paper is a photo of the same plane taken at around the same time.
They estimate the temperature at 241K (-25F), which is rather different to the -40C they mention in the poster. At that temperature, water can exist as liquid supercooled droplets that only freeze when they get to a certain size.
It does seem to be all explained in the paper. A bit complicated though.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 4:10 pm jazzroc
You are right about it being “a bit complicated”, but I’m grateful for the complexity. Personally, to fully understand and master THAT would take me about a month of eight-hour days in a technical library. I shan’t be doing it, but thanks.
It’s interesting that this rare phenomenon will become less rare in the future, as more flights will take place along the Pacific Ring, where warmer and more humid conditions are to be found.
I like the way they considered the trail in depth and breadth, and made distinctions between particle sizes, and considered simplifications (!) to get their results. Also the discussion of the pre-conditioning of the aerosol particles by previous flights, and their relevance to GW and albedo modification.
They are right. You are right. A brilliant science paper of 54 pages. I’m off to eat some words…
Notice it was conducted without any rudeness, snide remarks, or incivility.
If you study the material available to you in the links mentioned above you will become fully acquainted with aerodynamic contrails. I also recommend the links below, which will acquaint you with research and conclusions about persistent trails leading to permanent cirrus cloud formation.
Meanwhile, your comment was deleted because of its irrelevance and incivility (as I warned I would do in my blog foreword).
Written by JazzRoc
November 1, 2008 at 1:00 am
Tagged with 4absurdity, aerosol, aircraft exhaust, aluminium, aluminum, analyzed, apocalypticscreams, arthritis, atmosphere, awakekiwi, badinvention, barium, bazooka4314, blackheart77ce, breathing difficulties, bullshit, carnicom, characteristic, chem trail, civil aviation market, color, commercial craft, composed jazz and rock music, contrails, dbootsthediva, deepwatertree, diecrewdeluks, disinformation agent, drewswebsite, educated, failure, faulty assumption, filaments, givemeabreakgivemeab, greenmts, growth, heavy haze, horizontal, humidity, HumildeHumano, ignorance, issue, jazzricisaspook, jeflettis, justicepistoff, kissthisguy88, lifetime, lines in the sky, lung disease, matteo42, metallic salts, mish6874, morgellons, national airspace system, newton2013, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, ozobezleeb, pattern, ptb, rain, reduced vertical separation minima, reflected, refracted, rense, RonBaggerman, scientific, silentkill666, sirbadman, snow, spook, spraying, temperature, tic-tac-toe, transcribed and synthesized classical music, Truth, understand, united states, unnatural cloud, vertical, vibrant, visible, weather, webby material, WhereIsTruth, whiteout, wind shear, Zigga12345
LETTER – LETTIS PREY – LIES, DAMNED LIES – LIES II – LINK – LINKUE – LIZ – LOOKING AT WATER – LUDOSOPHIST – LYNN – MARC 1 – MARC 2 – MARIUS – MEAT
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.
I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I’m entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.
Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn’t been written by the CIA or FBI.
Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.
At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed “experts” because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.
When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.
As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.
Read my blog…
JEFFLETTIS – “retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you’ll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail” – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU’RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!
LIES, DAMNED LIES,
Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.
Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History
George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
“Creation science” disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these “secrets”? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.
This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.
We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.
Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.
Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.
I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his “doubts” about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: “Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn’t generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that.” The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. “You’re right,” they said. “It did seem strange…”
Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.
The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.
The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. “Expert testimony” is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.
Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy’s government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: “I think it is possible.”
Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed “without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services”. Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to “the myth of the Jews’ massacre”.
In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: “The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics.”
We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other’s fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other’s eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.
In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a “man-made Pentagon genocide”, that Pope Paul VI “was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978”, that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.
Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.
But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.
The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.
Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and “superfoods” that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.
Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.
The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.
But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.
These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.
Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that “the British Government was involved in some way” with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.
The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.
‘Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History’ by Damian Thompson
“Please quote any “lie” I have mentioned to you” OK, WILL DO
“The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees” – FALSE
“Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions” – FALSE
“you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails” – LIE
“no credentials” – LIE
“are a government debunker” – LIE
“unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue” – LIE
“your spam postings” – LIE
“over and over you continue to waste space” – LIE
“you offer no information” – LIE
“Post after post you avoid this” – LIE
“with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect” – LIE
“You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish” – LIE
“You must dance because you sure dance around the issue” – LIE
“your time wasting typing” – LIE
“all you discuss is how a cloud forms” – LIE
“doesn’t have the guts to do the real science” – LIE
“you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn’t” – LIE
“no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails” – LIE
“so called experience” – LIE
“Useless posting and disinformation” – LIE
“of a so called engineer” – LIE
“I have made no claim of any lethal status” – IMPLICIT LIE
“you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts” – LIE
“sham” – LIE
That’s TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer.
there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work.
LINKUE (A QUOTE)
This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.
Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.
Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban.
email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don’t relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?
I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven’t responded.
Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for “chemtrails”, it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.
You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.
Aerosol “sprays” may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only “aerosol sprays” that exist.
I am glad that you think that “almost all” of my “posts on the subject are true”. Which posts do you think are NOT?
It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.
Get real. I’m living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn’t strike the individual as hard as it does in the “temperate zone”, and I just get by.
The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.
Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date.
LOOKING AT WATER
You’re looking at WATER…
Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.
1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable.
“The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.
You’ll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly.”
Bless him… he toned his “probability” down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :
Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth’s atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That’s ALL!
Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)
Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don’t know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).
As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN’T looking: it’s called the “observer effect”. The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.
Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.
The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth’s surface.
So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.
In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That’s 6% of the whole.
Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT.
Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.
Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that’s all.
Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…
I have two friends with interesting stories…
The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn’t once…
The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council’s claims otherwise. He HASN’T been bothered by authorities: he’s kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…
Try this Vaughan-Williams’ composition – he’s a Welshman like me.
We are a more Latin race than you Saxons…
“I’ve heard you’ve gotten acquainted with JP” – much to my surprise, yes
“I’m Marius” – and I’m Tony
“Nice to meet you” – hmm. We’re not “meeting”. Meeting would be better…
“He told me you were well worth the talk” – How does he know?
“In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots” – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.
“I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories” – me too. JFK is reason enough.
“I’m having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies” – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I’d never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.
Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I’d JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…
“I’ve barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?” NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I’ve heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.
“Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? “let’s jump on the conspiracy wave”-thing?” – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don’t do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn’t an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.
“Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?” – It’s 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)
“I’m from Norway, myself. It’s nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million” – half that here
“Have a nice day!” – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.
(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author’s name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he’s more flattered than offended. )
THEY’RE MADE OUT OF MEAT by Terry Bisson
“They’re made out of meat.”
“Meat. They’re made out of meat.”
“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”
“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”
“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”
“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”
“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”
“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”
“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”
“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”
“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”
“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”
“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”
“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”
“So … what does the thinking?”
“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”
“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”
“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”
“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”
“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”
“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”
“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”
“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”
“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.’ That sort of thing.”
“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”
“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”
“I thought you just told me they used radio.”
“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”
“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”
“Officially or unofficially?”
“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”
“I was hoping you would say that.”
“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”
“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”
“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”
“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”
“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”
“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”
“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”
“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”
“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”
“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”
“They always come around.”
“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …”
Director: Stephen O’Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds
Written by JazzRoc
October 30, 2008 at 1:00 am
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