JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Facts and “Chemtrail” Fictions

Posts Tagged ‘Earth


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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge — even to ourselves — that we’ve been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) – Carl Sagan



As a society it falls upon us as individuals to live our lives using the best judgement possible.

For each of us it wasn’t always that way: as children we instinctively believed what our parents told us, which was a powerful defense mechanism that generally kept us out of harm’s way.

As we grow up this gullibility has to be exchanged for a healthy cynicism and sound judgment which will afford some protection from the intentional deception of sociopaths.


This is a comment posted at Uncinus’s excellent site Contrailscience late Sept 2009. It is rare to find such professionalism and terse accuracy in “chemtrailer” writing, and here is an experienced and technically competent writer presenting an opposite point of view. No surprise, there:

boeing factory

For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.

* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.

* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.

* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:

** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.

* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.

* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.

* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.

* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.

* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”

* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.

* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.

* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.

* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?

* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.

* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.

* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.

* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.

* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.

* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.

* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.

* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.

* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.

* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.

* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.

* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.

* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.

Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.

It ain’t happening.





“Although chemtrails are conspicuous in our skies and thousands of sites exist about the menace the mainstream media and the authorities are very quiet about the matter or ignore and deny their existence. This of course, adds fuel to the conspiracy theories!

But it’s not just the media and the officials that are silent because there is a similar wall of silence from successful singer-songwriters and rock stars as well as celebrities in general! What does this mean? is there some memo that gets circulated warning that if you mention chemtrails your contract is terminated? Are people too scared to mention such stuff in public? What is going on?

I say we need people who can get the media exposure to come forward on this matter! We need stars to talk about chemtrails on live TV and radio!

I believe we need protest songs about chemtrails! If anyone knows of any please let me know!”

There is no evidence that I have seen that trails in the sky are anything except the water and carbon dioxide (and trace amounts of NOX) left by the passage of gas turbines in the stratosphere.

Now water is drinkable, carbon dioxide is respired by plants to make sugar, and the NOX combines with water to form dilute nitric acid which forms nitrates on contact with soil, helping plants to grow.

The majority of trails in the skies of Earth cross the US continent, so it is they that will bear the brunt of this “contamination”. So be it. Their plants will grow a little better, is all. Although the daily burning of a million tons of kerosine seems massive to you, in relation to the mass of the Earth’s atmosphere it is NOTHING.

ALL of Man’s conflagrations, his best efforts annually, will raise the sea level by 0.0000000000001 per cent, for instance (approximately).

Now, as to whether STRANGE COMPOUNDS are surreptitiously being introduced into burning gas turbines, in order to distribute them as an aerosol throughout the Earth’s atmosphere, why on Earth would anyone do that? (It would HAVE to be THROUGH the turbine because spray devices external to the motor would have to be plainly visible).

It just doesn’t stand up to any logical consideration.

Your ignorance has lead to your paranoia.

I blame Western Culture as a whole for failing to instil a minimum but requisite standard of scientific knowledge for the technological conditions under which we live.

Desist this crap!

“I totally disagree! Please do some research Tony! I have been researching this for a long time! The planet is being geoengineered under Caps & Trade schemes. there are many things being done including weather modification which I have seen in the UK and here and is all known about if you dig deep! Try californiaskywatch.com for starters.”

Seeding clouds for rain with silver iodide crystals (or powdered tea!) is completely harmless. It IS NOT “weather modification”!

I have checked through the website above and NONE of the things mentioned bears ANY relationship to NATURAL VULCANISM, let alone the masses of the land, atmosphere and oceans.

The amount of ocean: imagine a cubic mile of ocean. One mile square, up to the height of Vilaflor from sea level. Got it?

Then imagine 500,000,000 of them.

Counting them at the rate of one per second will take you SIXTEEN years.

The ocean weighs 114,398,298,100,000,000 tons. One hundred and fourteen thousand trillion tons. That’s a HUGE dilution factor…


“you can watch trails that last and spread and no trails or old style contrails at the same time, you can watch planes with no trail start a trail and then stop. you can have a day or period of a day with old style normal clouds and blue sky followed by loads of chemtrails and a sky turned to a mass of fake clouds and haze”.

Contrails are a stratospheric phenomenon (not in the troposphere, where your weather is). The stratosphere is generally stable, layered (like an onion skin) with layers of water/air solutions at various temperatures and humidities. When they are moving in different directions to each other (and falling slightly) they form CIRRUS clouds. When they fall without any relative motion, they form CIRROSTRATUS clouds.


Sometimes the layers are supersaturated and only require flying through (say by glider wings) to condense out water and form clouds. They understandably may get somewhat upset when a clumping great turbofan whistles through them. Sometimes (when the layer is SATURATED) the upset is permanent, but in general the stratosphere is less than saturated, and you see a temporary contrail which trails the plane for say a mile or so, before being re-absorbed. On days when the layers are ALL saturated, the contrails will hang there ALL DAY.

Contrails are WATER, and you are not being sensible.

“you can have a day or period of a day with old style normal clouds and blue sky”.

What you are talking about here is the TROPOSPHERE, which is the air between the ground and the stratosphere.

This is the atmosphere as you experience it at ground level. It is THE BULK of the total atmosphere, half of which is to be found beneath twelve thousand feet.

The STRATOSPHERE is to be found at DOUBLE that height and above, to a height of sixty thousand feet. It is relatively rarefied, very cold (-80 deg F, colder than Mars) and TRANSPARENT.

It is the atmosphere beneath twelve thousand feet which is responsible for the blue in the sky (by scattering of white light – the blue “scatters” whilst the red continues straight on).

On bad days in the latter part of WWII, the stratosphere was supersaturated when USAF Flying fortresses set out to precision-bomb German targets in their thousands. The Germans could see them coming from three hundred miles away, without radar, and could adjust their fighter attacks with time to spare. Bad days, with hundreds of bombers littering the path back to Blighty.

Do you suppose those bombing raids were chemical attacks?

“listen Tony I don’t see why you feel the need to insult me!”

No insult intended. I DESCRIBED you.

“i didn’t start this argument and if you have nothing f—ing better to do with your time f— off”.

It’s not an argument. It’s a discussion. I consider it important to correct the foolishness of a friend.

“I know what I see and have the opinions of thousands of others who see likewise”.

You don’t “know” what you see. That’s the point. You’re blogging others down a foolish path. That I feel compelled to prevent. The opinions of other deluded people don’t count for much, do they? Nor should you help to delude them, should you? It would be harmful, even evil, wouldn’t it?

“i certainly don’t need to be insulted by someone I thought was a friend”.

Then don’t FEEL insulted. You’re not the only person that has been foolish in the world are you?

I have given you an accurate account of what it was you thought you had seen. You have been given the benefit of my scientific experience.

Would it have been kind to remain silent?

You should should consider yourself assisted, helped, loved, by this friend, and as a consequence GIVE THIS STUPIDITY UP!



Cygnus X-1



It seems to be normal for chemtrailers not to understand why our skies are blue.

Where were these people in junior school, or in science class? Outside?

White light is a MIXTURE of visible light frequencies. The Sun (which is the main source of all light by which we see, is a very hot body which radiates photons of many frequencies, some of which are so energetic that they would harm us if they could pass through our atmosphere – but they cannot.

What does pass through is mainly a tight group of frequencies, spanning just over an octave, which our eyes can see.

Our eyes have evolved to make use of these frequencies – naturally.


Wikipedia: Rayleigh scattering


Rayleigh scattering causes the blue hue of the daytime sky and the reddening of the sun at sunset

It is more dramatic after sunset. This picture was taken about one hour after sunset at 500m altitude, looking at the horizon where the sun had set, showing the more intense scattering of blue light by the atmosphere relative to red light.

Rayleigh scattering (named after the English physicist Lord Rayleigh) is the elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the light. It can occur when light travels in transparent solids and liquids, but is most prominently seen in gases.

Rayleigh scattering of sunlight in clear atmosphere is the main reason why the sky is blue: Rayleigh and cloud-mediated scattering contribute to diffuse light (direct light being sunrays).

For scattering by particles similar to or larger than a wavelength, see Mie theory or discrete dipole approximation (they apply to the Rayleigh regime as well).

Small size parameter approximation
The size of a scattering particle is parametrized by the ratio x of its characteristic dimension r and wavelength lambda:


Rayleigh scattering can be defined as scattering in the small size parameter regime x < 1. Scattering from larger spherical particles is explained by the Mie theory for an arbitrary size parameter x. The Mie theory reduces to the Rayleigh approximation.


The amount of Rayleigh scattering that occurs for a beam of light is dependent upon the size of the particles and the wavelength of the light (lambda). Specifically, the intensity of the scattered light varies as the sixth power of the particle size and varies inversely with the fourth power of the wavelength.

The intensity I of light scattered by a single small particle from a beam of unpolarized light of wavelength lambda and intensity I0 is given by:


where R is the distance to the particle, lambda is the scattering angle, n is the refractive index of the particle, and d is the diameter of the particle.

The angular distribution of Rayleigh scattering, governed by the (1 + cos^2*lambda) term, is symmetric about the plane normal to the incident direction of the light (i.e. about lambda = 90°), and so the forward scatter equals the backwards scatter. Integrating over the sphere surrounding the particle gives the Rayleigh scattering cross section.

The Rayleigh scattering coefficient for a group of scattering particles is the number of particles per unit volume N times the cross-section. As with all wave effects, for incoherent scattering the scattered powers add arithmetically, while for coherent scattering, such as if the particles are very near each other, the fields add arithmetically and the sum must be squared to obtain the total scattered power.


Rayleigh scattering from molecules
A 5 mW green laser pointer is visible at night due to Rayleigh scattering and airborne dust. Rayleigh scattering from molecules is also possible. An individual molecule does not have a well-defined refractive index and diameter. Instead, a molecule has a polarizability a, which describes how much the electrical charges on the molecule will move in an electric field. In this case, the Rayleigh scattering intensity for a single particle is given by


The amount of Rayleigh scattering from a single particle can also be expressed as a cross section s. For example, the major constituent of the atmosphere, nitrogen, has a Rayleigh cross section of 5.1×10^-31 m^2 at a wavelength of 532 nm (green light). This means that at atmospheric pressure, about a fraction 10^-5 of light will be scattered for every meter of travel.

The strong wavelength dependence of the scattering (~lambda-4) means that blue light is scattered much more readily than red light. In the atmosphere, this results in blue wavelengths being scattered to a greater extent than longer (red) wavelengths, and so one sees blue light coming from all regions of the sky. Direct radiation (by definition) is coming directly from the Sun. Rayleigh scattering is a good approximation to the manner in which light scattering occurs within various media for which scattering particles have a small size parameter.

Reason for the blue color of the sky
Rayleigh scattering is responsible for the blue color of the sky during the day. Rayleigh scattering is inversely proportional to the fourth power of wavelength, which means that the shorter wavelength of blue light will scatter more than the longer wavelengths of green and red light. This gives the sky a blue appearance.

Conversely, looking toward the sun, the colors that were not scattered away – the longer wavelengths such as red and yellow light – are visible. When the sun is near the horizon, the volume of air through which sunlight must pass is significantly greater than when the sun is high in the sky. Accordingly, the gradient from a red-yellow sun to the blue sky is considerably wider at sunrise and sunset.

Rayleigh scattering primarily occurs through light’s interaction with air molecules. Some of the scattering can also be from aerosols of sulfate particles. For years following large Plinian eruptions, the blue cast of the sky is notably brightened due to the persistent sulfate load of the stratospheric eruptive gases. Another source of scattering is from microscopic density fluctuations, resulting from the random motion of the air molecules. A region of higher or lower density has a slightly different refractive index than the surrounding medium, and therefore it acts like a short-lived particle that can scatter light.
Rayleigh scattering at Hyperphysics
Maarten Sneep and Wim Ubachs, Direct measurement of the Rayleigh scattering cross section in various gases. Journal of Quantitative Spectroscopy and Radiative Transfer, 92, 293 (2005).
C.F. Bohren, D. Huffman, Absorption and scattering of light by small particles, John Wiley, New York 1983. Contains a good description of the asymptotic behavior of Mie theory for small size parameter (Rayleigh approximation).
Ditchburn, R.W. (1963). Light (2nd ed.). London: Blackie & Sons. pp. 582–585.
Chakraborti, Sayan (September 2007). “Verification of the Rayleigh scattering cross section”. American Journal of Physics 75 (9): 824-826. doi:10.1119/1.2752825.
Ahrens, C. Donald (1994). Meteorology Today: an introduction to weather, climate, and the environment (5th ed.). St. Paul MN: West Publishing Company. pp. 88–89.

syrian 747

And so when we see aircraft from the ground (this is a Syrian Air Boeing 747) we cannot expect to see its markings. They have been “scattered” away. You will only see its markings by taking pictures of it from up close.



It’s that moment when you have engaged your sophisticated and educated brain in a discussion with a chemtrailer and he suddenly starts talking about vertical “chemtrails” and challenges you to to justify those… You point out that only some fighter aircraft can travel vertically, and this guy says no, it was a “tanker aircraft” and while you are wondering what the hell, you realize that he doesn’t understand perspective at all, and he’s really talking about trails coming towards you and passing overhead you. Which means, of course, that you’re wasting your time with exotic explanations involving crossing shuttle routes.

Or when someone sends you a picture of a broken trail, and you can see that it had been a continuous trail before some crook had photoshopped it. So you tell him it’s a fraudulent picture, and so he sends you a color-processed copy so damned effective that you can see each individual photoshop spraying pass, thinking he has proved his point. I drew lines and arrows pointing exactly where it was occurring, and he still couldn’t see it.

Enough from me.

I want information, not a video of some guy’s grass saying “chemtard” over and over. ”

But, that is what this video IS! You are complaining because I didn’t give YOU what YOU want in this video?! Are you f*****g kidding me?! I didn’t force you to come here and make the assumption that I’m supposed to “teach” you something! I make it PERFECTLY clear in my videos that I’m not here to educate any lazy and ignorant chemtard! I tried that in the past… It wasn’t worth my time. Learn for yourself!
I even make it PERFECTLY clear in the “info” area that I don’t have time to be wasting on f*****g ignorant chemtards! Where do you see ANYTHING about me being an information booth?! Who said it’s MY f*****g job to educate YOU?!?

I must say he seems reasonable to me. Stars, save me…



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(from Wikipedia)

Name, Symbol, Number: barium, Ba, 56
Chemical series: alkaline earth metals
Group, Period, Block: 2, 6, s
Appearance: silvery white


Standard atomic weight 137.327(7) ug·mol-1
Electron configuration [Xe] 6s2
Electrons per shell 2, 8, 18, 18, 8, 2


Physical properties

Phase: solid
Density 3.51 g/cm3
Liquid density at m.p.: 3.338 g/cm3
Melting point: 1000K (727°C, 1341°F)
Boiling point: 2170K (1897°C, 3447°F)
Heat of fusion: 7.12 kJ/mol-1
Heat of vaporization: 140.3 kJ/mol
Heat capacity: (25°C) 28.07 J/mol/K
Oxidation states: 2 (strongly basic oxide)
Magnetic ordering: paramagnetic
Electrical resistivity: (20°C) 332 nO/m
Thermal conductivity: (300K) 18.4 W/m/K
Thermal expansion (25°C) 20.6 µm/m/K
Mohs hardness: 1.25
CAS registry number: 7440-39-3


Barium is a chemical element, it has the symbol Ba, and atomic number 56. Barium is a soft silvery metallic alkaline earth metal and is never found in nature in its pure form due to its reactivity with air. Its oxide is historically known as baryta but it reacts with water and carbon dioxide and is not found as a mineral. The most common naturally occurring minerals are the very insoluble barium sulfate, BaSO4 (barite), and barium carbonate, BaCO3 (witherite). Benitoite is a rare gem containing barium.
It is a metallic element that is chemically similar to calcium but more reactive. This metal oxidizes very easily when exposed to air and is highly reactive with water or alcohol, producing hydrogen gas. Burning in air or oxygen produces not just barium oxide (BaO) but also the peroxide. Simple compounds of this heavy element are notable for their high specific gravity. This is true of the most common barium-bearing mineral, its sulfate barite BaSO4, also called ‘heavy spar’ due to the high density (4.5 g/cm³).
It has some medical and many industrial uses:
* Barium compounds, and especially barite (BaSO4), are extremely important to the petroleum industry. Barite is used in drilling mud, a weighting agent in drilling new oil wells.
* Barium sulfate is used as a radiocontrast agent for X-ray imaging of the digestive system (“barium meals” and “barium enemas”).
* Barium carbonate is a useful rat poison and can also be used in making bricks. Unlike the sulfate, the carbonate dissolves in stomach acid, allowing it to be poisonous.
* An alloy with nickel is used in spark plug wire.
* Barium oxide is used in a coating for the electrodes of fluorescent lamps, which facilitates the release of electrons.
* The metal is a “getter” in vacuum tubes, to remove the last traces of oxygen.
* Barium carbonate is used in glassmaking. Being a heavy element, barium increases the refractive index and luster of the glass.
* Barite is used extensively in rubber production.
* Barium nitrate and chlorate give green colors in fireworks.
* Impure barium sulfide phosphoresces after exposure to the light.
* Lithopone, a pigment that contains barium sulfate and zinc sulfide, is a permanent white that has good covering power, and does not darken in when exposed to sulfides.
* Barium peroxide can be used as a catalyst to start an aluminothermic reaction when welding rail tracks together. It can also be used in green tracer ammunition.
* Barium titanate was proposed in 2007[1] to be used in next generation battery technology for electric cars.
* Barium Fluoride is used in infrared applications.
* Barium is a key element in YBCO superconductors.



Barium (Greek barys, meaning “heavy”) was first identified in 1774 by Carl Scheele and extracted in 1808 by Sir Humphry Davy in England. The oxide was at first called barote, by Guyton de Morveau, which was changed by Antoine Lavoisier to baryta, from which “barium” was derived to describe the metal.



Because barium quickly becomes oxidized in air, it is difficult to obtain this metal in its pure form. It is primarily found in and extracted from the mineral barite which is crystallized barium sulfate. Barium is commercially produced through the electrolysis of molten barium chloride (BaCl2)


The most important compounds are barium peroxide, barium chloride, sulfate, carbonate, nitrate, and chlorate.

Naturally occurring barium is a mix of seven stable isotopes. There are twenty-two isotopes known, but most of these are highly radioactive and have half-lives in the several millisecond to several minute range. The only notable exceptions are 133Ba which has a half-life of 10.51 years, and 137Ba (2.55 minutes).


All water or acid soluble barium compounds are extremely poisonous. At low doses, barium acts as a muscle stimulant, while higher doses affect the nervous system, causing cardiac irregularities, tremors, weakness, anxiety, dyspnea and paralysis. This may be due to its ability to block potassium ion channels which are critical to the proper function of the nervous system.
Barium sulfate can be taken orally because it is highly insoluble in water, and is eliminated completely from the digestive tract. Unlike other heavy metals, barium does not bioaccumulate. However, inhaled dust containing barium compounds can accumulate in the lungs, causing a benign condition called baritosis.
Oxidation occurs very easily and, to remain pure, barium should be kept under a petroleum-based fluid (such as kerosene) or other suitable oxygen-free liquids that exclude air.
Barium acetate could lead to death in high doses. Marie Robards poisoned her father with the substance in Texas in 1993. She was tried and convicted in 1996.







Jet engines MAKE soda pop. Decane is the chemical name for aviation kerosine, or JP-8*. The combustion formula goes:
2*C10H22 + 31*O2 -> 20*CO2 + 11*H2O, or

And as MOST OF US know:


*JP-8 is modern aviation kerosine. It is safer, with a higher flashpoint that the JP-4 it has superseded. It has anti-corrosion and anti-gelling additives, but does NOT contain Ethylene Dibromide (which was once used to dissolve the lead oxide produced by tetra-ethyl lead anti-knock gasoline).

There could be THREE OR MORE transparent layers of air of DIFFERENT HUMIDITIES, only ONE of which condenses (at -40 deg) an ICE CRYSTAL TRAIL, within the short-haul civil aircraft band between 30 and 35 thousand feet. Layer thicknesses of differing humidity are frequently only hundreds of feet thick, and aircraft are spaced ten miles apart on the same level for a particular route, and conflicting routes are typically 2000ft above or below each other.

So you’ll see SOME planes laying ice crystal trails while others don’t – it depends which transparent stratospheric layer the plane is flying through. These layers themselves aren’t perfectly flat – they roughly conform to the ground profile AND any rising CUMULUS clouds. So even if the plane flies straight and level, it may be the layer it is in slopes gently down or up, and an ice crystal trail either appears or disappears. You have to remember these layers, though different, are ALWAYS themselves transparent.

So you can’t SEE them. You can only see which layer is really humid by a plane throwing a “vapor trail” in it. Typically stratospheric layers begin ABOVE the TROPOPAUSE, which is where our ground level weather STOPS. The layers vary in thickness, more densely packed close to the TROPOPAUSE, thinning out to nothing much above twelve miles up. It’s very smooth and calm up there (although it may have a high speed with respect to the ground).

Unlike what it is DOWN HERE. This rising panic ensues from an under-educated public. Had you all been properly taught about the weather as schoolchildren, this would be a NON-TOPIC.

Respiratory ailments may well be on the increase, but so is the planting of unusual crops which emit unusual pollens, auto fumes are still on the increase, and urban photochemical smogs are also on the increase. It is known (by some) that the COMBINATION of pollens, auto fumes, and urban smog can cause severe auto-immune failure, asthma, and death in the young, weak, or elderly.


If there are MORE “vapor trails” in the sky than there used to be, then the answer is that there is MORE AVIATION TRAFFIC and MORE WATER IN THE ATMOSPHERE. It isn’t very wise to look upwards and blame “soda pop” for combinatory effects which are happening down here, solely because you can’t understand how the atmosphere works. It certainly doesn’t help you to find a REAL solution to the REAL problem.

Video posts like this are WRONG, and risk scenarios as HARMFUL as a TSUNAMI.

Would YOU call a tsunami EVIL? No you wouldn’t, because a tsunami lacks INTENT.

Would I call this video post EVIL?


Careful with that Cloud

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Devastating raid on Hamburg in 1943


in the style of Anthony Flew – taken (with considerable ironic appreciation) from his “Theology and Falsification”

Let us begin with a parable. It is a parable developed from a tale told by Riordan O’Flaherty in his haunting and revolutionary article “Chemtrails B.C.”

Once upon a time two young adventurers came upon a hilltop. Growing in the sky above were many trails in a tic-tac-toe and also a grey overcast. One explorer says, “Some chemtrailing is being done today.” The other disagrees, “There is no chemtrailing taking place.” So they pitch their tents and set a watch, and devise methods to discover chemtrails. No matter how hard or what they try, no evidence for chemtrails is ever found. “But perhaps it is an invisible chemtrail.” So they set up an air sampling machine. (For they remember how H. G. Well’s The Invisible Man could be both smelt and touched though he could not be seen). But no suspect materials are ever found in the sampler filter. Yet still the chemtrailer is not convinced. “But there is a chemtrail, invisible, intangible, insensible, a chemtrail which has no scent and leaves no trace, a chemtrail which is subtly killing us.” At last the debunker despairs, “But what remains of your original assertion? Just how does what you call an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive chemtrail differ from an imaginary chemtrail or even from no chemtrail at all?”

In this parable we can see how what starts as an assertion, that something exist or that there is some analogy between certain complexes of phenomena, may be reduced step by step to an altogether different status, to an expression perhaps of a “picture preference.” The debunker says there is no chemtrail. The chemtrailer says there is a chemtrail (but invisible, etc.). One man talks about sexual behaviour. Another man prefers to talk of Aphrodite (but knows that there is not really a superhuman person additional to, and somehow responsible for, all sexual phenomena). The process of qualification may be checked at any point before the original assertion is completely withdrawn and something of that first assertion will remain (Tautology).

Mr. Wells’ invisible man could not, admittedly, be seen, but in all other respects he was a man like the rest of us. But though the process of qualification may be and of course usually is, checked in time, it is not always judicially so halted. Someone may dissipate his assertion completely without noticing that he has done so. A fine brash hypothesis may thus be killed by inches, the death by a thousand qualifications.

And in this, it seems to me, lies the peculiar danger, the endemic evil, of chemtrail utterance. Take such utterances as “chemtrails are planned,” “chemtrails cover the world,” “chemtrails are poisoning us with toxins, carcinogens and bacterial agents.” They look at first sight very much like assertions, vast cosmological assertions. Of course, this is no sure sign that they either are, or are intended to be, assertions. But let us confine ourselves to the cases where those who utter such sentences intended them to express assertions. (Merely remarking parenthetically that those who intend or interpret such utterances as crypto-commands, expressions of wishes, disguised ejaculations, concealed ethics, or as anything else but assertions, are unlikely to succeed in making them either properly orthodox or practically effective).

Now to assert that such and such is the case is necessarily equivalent to denying that such and such is not the case. Suppose then that we are in doubt as to what someone who gives vent to an utterance is asserting, or suppose that, more radically, we are debunkers, as to whether he is really asserting anything at all, one way of trying to understand (or perhaps to expose) his utterance is to attempt to find what he would regard as counting against, or as being incompatible with, its truth. For if the utterance is indeed an assertion, it will necessarily be equivalent to a denial of the negation of the assertion. And anything which would count against the assertion, or which would induce the speaker to withdraw it and to admit that it had been mistaken, must be part of (or the whole of) the meaning of the negation of that assertion. And to know the meaning of the negation of an assertion, is as near as makes no matter, to know the meaning of that assertion. And if there is nothing which a putative assertion denies then there is nothing which it asserts either: and so it is not really an assertion. When the debunker in the parable asked the chemtrailer, “Just how does what you call an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive chemtrail differ from an imaginary chemtrail or even from no chemtrail at all?” he was suggesting that the chemtrailer’s earlier statement had been so eroded by qualification that it was no longer an assertion at all.

Now it often seems to people who are not “truthers” as if there was no conceivable event or series of events the occurrence of which would be admitted by dedicated chemtrailers to be a sufficient reason for conceding “there aren’t any chemtrails after all” or “chemtrails have been figments of  our imagination”. Someone tells us that chemtrails exist: the German Government has admitted it. We are reassured. But then months go by without a sign of chemtrails in the sky. Some qualification is made — “the PTB are re-organizing their campaigns and new materials will soon be dispersed” which are quite compatible with the truth of the assertion that chemtrails are real, after all, you only have to look at what has been done in the past. We are reassured again. But then perhaps we ask: what evidence do we have of chemtrails, what is this apparent stand really a stand against? Just what would have to happen not merely (morally and wrongly) to tempt but also (logically and rightly) to entitle us to say “chemtrails are highly unlikely” or even “chemtrails do not exist”?

I therefore put to the aforesaid enthusiasts the simple central questions,

“What would have to occur or to have occurred to constitute for you a disproof of the existence of chemtrails?”





“i can make reasonable assumptions.” – I’m sure it was once reasonable to assume the Sun went round the Earth.

“what about alleged contrails under 8km where the temp is warmer than -40?” – It is a function of DEW POINT, not just TEMPERATURE – check the definitions.

“what about the orbs that have been observed in and around the trails?” – I agree with you that there ARE baffling atmospheric phenomena (UFOs), but CANNOT LINK THEM TO CONSPIRACIES.

“what about sudden, noticeable increases in flyovers/trails in areas where there are few (if any) major flight paths” – Stratospheric overground speeds may exceed 120mph. That’s from horizon to horizon in SIX MINUTES.

“all those patents on the topic” – OUTSIDE MY EXPERIENCE, BUT HAVE YOU EVER VISITED A PATENT OFFICE? That I’ve done. Homer Simpson is a major contributor.

“and Dennis Kucinich’s mention of chemtrails” – Haven’t read him, but the whole story’s laid bare at contrailscience.com.

Here’s a note from a drafter of the bill, Dr. Carol Rosin:

From Carol Rosin

Perhaps I can help correct some fuzzy information that is being spread about H.R.3616, the Space Preservation Act of 2002, and Congressman Dennis Kucinich.

This bill will only ban space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit. It is NOT a bill to ban chemtrails and/or psychotronics or mind control devises or any specific weapons listed in the category of definitions in the original bill. I’m not sure where that rumor started, but in any case, those definitions were only listed on the original bill for definitional purposes… to exemplify what space-based weapons might be deployed in space if the space-based weapons bill isn’t passed. Frequently bills are revised, and things like definitions are removed. No big deal. The legislation is in no way compromised. This Congressman and his legislation maintain their integrity and commitment to ban space-based weapons. It was never a bill to ban chemtrails or mind-control technologies.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich is a champion of progressive issues. He is a sane man, he has integrity, he is courageous, and he is spiritually aware. We are lucky to have this legislation to ban space-based weapons introduced in the current atmosphere by this statesman.

President Bush will break the ABM Treaty in June. Then he can deploy space-based weapons under the guise of it being “MERELY testing.” This administration has announced its commitment to “dominate and control” Earth and space. I don’t think some people want that to happen.

People and organizations are connecting in what could become the fastest growing movement in history… to ban ALL space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit.


This bill does not prohibit space exploration, space research and development, etc., of a non space-based weapons nature. It does prohibit firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object or person, detonating one of more explosive devices in close proximity to that object or person, directing a source of energy against that object or person, or any other means. And it allows for the civil, commercial or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are NOT related to space-based weapons or systems.

There is a compatible World Treaty Banning Space-based Weapons being circulated that calls for a world space peacekeeping agency to monitor and enforce the ban. The Plan of Action will be announced mid-February. Hundreds of groups have already signed on to support the Kucinich legislation, and people are networking worldwide in solidarity about this who have different perspectives and issues but who know that we only have one chance in time to get this national and world law passed to ban space-based weapons.

Congressman Kucinich deserves our appreciation and support. A Senator will introduce this soon, as will a nation-state leader. Go to www.peaceinspace.com to find out more.

Thank you.

Carol Rosin President,
Institute for Cooperation in Space

“obscuration of your blue sky w/ webby cloud things” – Supersaturated conditions bring down a contrail by persistent agglomeration. At first the rate of sink of a contrail ice particle is measured in inches per minute. As the particle size increases its sink rate increases. It becomes a raindrop and falls at 40mph, but COULD become a HAILSTONE and fall at 100mph. It could end up in a HAILSTORM!

Or if it meets drier, warmer conditions it could DISAPPEAR RIGHT AWAY. If you look up on a cloudy but rainless day you can often see that the under surface of a cloud is RAINING, the rain falls for a thousand feet or so, peters out, is GONE.

I’ve often looked up at falling agglomerating contrails (they develop a very ragged lower edge like a woodsaw blade and drop many thousands of feet) but only thought “falling agglomerating contrails” of course.

Sometimes cirrus (typically a boundary between strat layers) goes critical as it falls, and a circular “hole” appears in it as persistent agglomeration sets in. It’s quite a dramatic (but natural) effect.


This, I notice, has also been MISCONSTRUED as evidence for spraying.


“very proud of his knowledge in atmospherics” – No. I had a general idea you must be wrong, and so I went away and STUDIED the phenomena. I know MUCH more now than I did two months ago. You could do the same.

“very attached to being right and superior to those lesser mortals” – Look, I’m JUST as fallible as the next guy. It is only your lack of DISCIPLINE which is the distinction.

“hard for him to let go of what he knows” – Man, I was STRAIGHT for the first half of the sixties. The second half, I looked like JC, and I kept that way until my hair fell onto my pillow. I have been unstinting in mysearch for knowledge….

“near the subject of scalar weapons” – You have missed this. I could explain to you (but you wouldn’t believe me) that HAARP’s EM energy can be either FOCUSSED ((SHORTWAVE) where it becomes local, very intense and dangerous) or DIFFUSE ((LONGWAVE) where it can travel round the Earth, but cannot be focussed, or intense, or dangerous). You typically confuse these two together, add 2 + 2 to make 5, and hypothesize gibberish. ELF radiation is TOO WEAK to do anything important (except long-distance radio communication), and POWER requirements are DRASTIC. The HAARP antenna is directed at the IONOSPHERE, where it essentially heats the very thin gas up there. It has the focussing power of Mr. Magoo, squints at a TINY portion of the Earth’s sky, and still draws a BUNCH of energy. The Europeans have something TEN TIMES bigger. Presumably WE will be dead TEN TIMES faster. Or NOT! These places are NOT WEAPONS. In your ignorance and fear you are ascribing POWER where NONE exists.


“the other phenomena” – Look, I’ve had the misfortune to hear this video over and over again, and it only gets worse and worse. Clifford Carnicom is a confident liar who heaps baseless assertion upon baseless assertion, ALWAYS BEGINNING WITH A DOWNRIGHT LIE. I’m sure it springs from a CYNICAL CONFIDENCE that the gullible public would rather believe him than read ANY BOOK ABOUT SCIENCE.

He NEVER acknowledges ANY distinction between the TROPOSPHERE and the STRATOSPHERE, for that would destroy his lead argument.

Once you understand that distinction, then you’ll see that air sampling at GROUND LEVEL is IRRELEVANT. The world is HUGE place, full of sources of poison and infection, mould spores, viruses, most of which are natural, the remaining man-made. Mould spores were collected in air samples at the poles in the early part of the 20th century. The island I live on occasionally endures a KALIMA – a wind from the Sahara Desert full of sand and spores and pollens which causes respiratory distress to some.

“nicola tesla’s work was real” – and so it was – to a point (alternating current, induction motors, and no further). He made the mistake (which I have in the past quite instinctively avoided) of going wherever the BIG MONEY TOOK HIM. I’m fairly sure it killed him. Or maybe it was his insanity..




The Case against Chemtrailshttp://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=60962 – A spirited attack against the “chemtrail hypothesis” by DakotaS – “a common realist”.

I won’t give you much information about myself, or any specific details about higher education or experience, I will just give you hard facts and first-hand proof that includes my personal logic, with many references to other solid debunkings.
It doesn’t take a Masters in Atmospheric Science to debunk this.
I live directly under the approach path for runway 10/28 (28) at Atlanta International airport, and I have a very clear view of planes landing on the other runways. (KATL’s runways are parallel.)
Medium to large aircraft with multiple engines fly under 3500 feet over or near our house heading to the threshold all day and all night long.
These pictures were taken off the deck on the back of my house around 7 or 8 (sorry for the bad quality):
I don’t really need these to prove anything, but here are a few quick “Chemtrail” photos over my house: We have some very elderly neighbors that live next door, and they have lived here for over 50 years and report actually getting healthier after they moved here from the northeast. You’re probably thinking; “well of course they got healthier, the airports in the northeast are busier than little-ole-Atlanta!”  Wrong.
Not a day goes by that I don’t see an aircraft flying at low altitude over my house. How do I handle the noise? I don’t even notice it unless I want to, my brain has apparently tuned it out completely over the years. Of course, sometimes I get woken up when a DHL DC-8 flies over, but those are louder than most aircraft.
Furthermore, Atlanta airport is the home of the famous ATL VOR (VHF Omni-directional Radio Range for those who don’t know), which is used as a waypoint for most flights coming from South America, the Caribbean, and Florida on their way to the Northeast or beyond.
Aircraft flying at high altitudes leave “chemtrails” over my area all the time, much more than your average city.
While most aircraft no longer use the old radio-to-radio navigation of the 70s and 80s, ATL VOR remains a very commonly used waypoint for air travel.
Here is a live radar view of part of the Atlanta Center airspace provided by Flight-Aware. Flights in blue are to/from KATL; flights in green are in the vicinity. (aka flying over ATL VOR or over south Atlanta): http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KATL The radar is at the upper right.
After all this, I take NO medication of any kind, I have excellent vision, no real hearing issues, no green warts growing all over my body, and no strange mutations. Must be those Chemtrails.
Quote: Originally Posted by FreeDictionary.com con·trail (kon-trail) n. A visible trail of streaks of condensed water vapor or ice crystals sometimes forming in the wake of an aircraft. Also called vapor trail.
In this section will explain some of the most popular arguments for the Chemtrail myth using scientific facts and details.
Argument 1
How do you explain their duration of many hours or length in 100’s of miles?
Vapor/contrails cool and dissipate almost instantly. How long a contrail lingers is completely determined by how much moisture is in the air. (aka Humidity) It is similar to what happens when you can see your breath on a cold day, sometimes your breath is only visible for an instant, sometimes it billows up and dissipates before eventually disappearing.
Aircraft contrails are similar to this because the exhaust gas temperature can reach 1100 deg C, and contains plenty of moisture.
The surrounding air at high altitudes on the other hand can be -40 deg C, and will always produce a contrail unless there is little or no moisture in the atmosphere. (This explains why some people claim they rarely see contrails over deserts like outback Australia or the American Midwest.)
Argument 2
I’ve seen commercial flights nearly side by side one creating a trail that disappears quickly, while the other creates a trail that lingers for hours. This is proof of Chemtrails.
What you saw was two aircraft flying at different altitudes, the temperature gets cooler as you get higher, therefore the water vapor contrails will linger much longer at 36,000 feet as compared to 15,000 feet. The aircraft you saw could also have been different models, with older and newer engines which will create different contrails every time.
Argument 3
Then why aren’t there any “normal” clouds forming at the same time and altitude?
There are ‘normal’ clouds at high altitudes.
Cirrus clouds almost always form above 26,000ft, except on colder days where they may be as low as 18,000 feet. Generally however, these ‘low altitude cirrus clouds’ are classified as Cirrostratus.
Cirrus clouds are almost always mistaken as chemtrail ‘blankets’.
Argument 4
I never saw these contrails 30 years ago, something is different now.
What is different: the aircraft – the aircraft’s engines – the altitudes that aircraft fly at – the amount of air traffic – the air traffic control system itself.
30 years ago, aircraft and aircraft travel were dramatically different from what they are now.
Namely, in the 1960s – 1980s the (Boeing only for example) 727, 737, and 747 were introduced. The 707 was the one of the most popular aircraft of that time and I will use that as an example. We will obviously focus on the engines because that is the source of these ‘different’ contrails.
The 707 used Turbofan JT8D-200 with 21,700 Pounds of thrust. The 727 used the same engines originally, and was actually the original rollout aircraft to use this type of engine.
High-bypass engines are more likely to make robust contrails than the low-bypass smoke-makers of the 60s, 70s, and parts of the 80s. Most if not all these planes have been retired, or upgraded and sold to cargo airlines. There was much less air traffic during the 60s and 70s as well.
Quote: “…in both 1959 and in 1960 these aircraft flew a total of 8.9 million hours…”
I couldn’t find the exact number of hours flown in 2008, but you can’t tell me it is not more by hundreds of percents. (It’s 5000 percent!)
Maybe you didn’t see them at all, or you saw something different, but other people have.
Contrails photographed and documented in early 1940s films:
YouTube – UK Contrails in 1941
YouTube – BattleOfTheBulgeContrails
YouTube – Memphis Belle WWII Bomber Contrails -…
“Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul’s Cathedral. London, 1944.”
There are more airplanes in the sky these days…
I believe I’ve said enough about this argument.
Argument 5
We have seen satellite photos clearly showing chemtrails that generally see increased patterns over populated areas.
I guess they are talking about a photo like this: http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/news_rels/2…contrails1.jpg
This increase of ‘chemtrails’ can be attributed to one thing; an increase of air travel, and the change of the Air Traffic Control System in 1995.
As I said at the beginning, most aircraft now have advanced FMC/FMS/MCDU systems that use predetermined Latitude/Longitude waypoints to get the aircraft to where it is going, but they still use ATL and other VOR radios as waypoints, with the NAV radios as backup. There is a VOR radio, or common waypoints at virtually all airports above regional. VORs don’t even have to be at airports…
Heres a random Google images photo of a VOR transmitter: http://www.triodetic.com/Photos/Web%…Photos/VOR.jpg
Argument 6
If these are really commercial aircraft, then why are some contrails vertical?
They are not vertical. Please don’t take this as condescending… But the earth is A SPHERE. A flight in the distance coming straight at you is most likely flying straight and level, but because they are coming up over the horizon, it appears they are leaving vertical contrails.
Argument 7
This picture proves that the government is using airline aircraft to spray chemicals over cities: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein…-LR/0855967/L/ .
I have gotten this one a lot recently, and it can be explained easily. What you are seeing is a Boeing 777-200 aircraft fitted with extensive flight-test instrumentation, measuring equipment and ballast tanks that can be filled with water to simulate the weight of a full load of passengers and cargo. This method of testing has been used for years and years and years. Look it up. The video showing this is a cynical forgery.
Argument 8
How do you explain the documented traces of Barium Oxide in the air of large cities?
First of all, the Military has developed a method of reducing jet emissions using Barium Oxide in 1995.
Quote: Originally Posted by Above Military report “…This report describes laboratory studies of a new NOx control process based on the surprising ability of barium oxide to rapidly capture NO, a process that could be ideally suited to controlling NOx emission from jet engine test cells…”
It is widely known that a type of Barium is used in the manufacture of rubber and plastics, which is common in parts of aircraft fuel tanks, and fuel storage containers on the ground. Generally, the manufactures of fuel tank parts don’t worry about getting a little barium in jet fuel, they are not expecting it to be drank… Barium is actually a very widely-used substance in industrial manufacturing, so it is not surprising to find Barium Oxide in the air.
Argument 9
How do you explain the traces of aluminum found in our air and water supply?
Aluminum is a VERY common metal. It is found in CLAY (as complex silicates of aluminum) and lightweight parts find their way into the kitchen, the automotive, sipbuilding and aero=industries.
It is a lightweight metal that is prized for its strength-to-weight ratio. Aluminum is here to stay folks and it’s all around you, even in the computer you are reading this on… so get used to it.
Argument 10
Chemtrails leave large shadows and dark lines in the atmosphere, this is not natural and normal contrails don’t do this.
I’ll let this web-page do the debunking of this: http://contrailscience.com/contrails…es-chemtrails/
Argument 11
Photographs have been taken that clearly show aircraft making grid patterns over cities, this is clearly a coordinated attack on our population.
I had typed up a long explanation for this, but after 3rd editing, I decided I would just show you the following videos and live radar maps:
YouTube – Highly Skilled Air Traffic Controller
YouTube – Fed Ex Ant Hill (and that was only Fedex…)
YouTube – typical USA Air Traffic – ALL active…
YouTube – Atlanta Flight Animation (And that was only Atlanta, the airport I live 7 miles from.)
There are thousands upon thousands of aircraft airborne at ANY GIVEN TIME, they are bound to cross each others path once in a while.
Argument 12
We see airshow aircraft releasing smoke and gas all the time, why couldn’t the government do it?
First of all, I never said the government COULDN’T do it, I’m sure if they wanted to they could, but it just doesn’t happen. Again, Contrailscience.com explains it as it is. ‘THINGS THAT ARE NOT CONTRAILS (OR CHEMTRAILS):
Argument 13
This photo is proof that chemicals are being sprayed from aircraft; clearly something is coming out of the wings of this aircraft! http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi…642/1088680/L/
Oh no, another “proof” photograph… This is one of nature’s amazing things that happens when humans fly around like birds… this is not only a contrail, but also an aerodynamic contrail which is formed by the sudden reduction and normalizing of pressure in the air as it moves over and around the wing. When the pressure of air is reduced (or any gas for that matter), its temperature also falls. The reduced temperature causes microscopic drops of water to condense, which then will freeze in the frigid temperature of the high altitude. The frozen drops get larger as more water condenses and freezes on them. The different sized ice crystals have different optical properties, which affect different wavelengths of light, which will cause the spectrum of light to become visible, and this explains the “rainbow” effect. This is a more scientific explanation for this effect courtesy of Contrailscience.com:
Argument 14
I have personally sat and watched aircraft turn their contrails on and off, this cannot be explained by chemtrail debunkers.
What you are seeing is aerodynamic contrails (as explained above) forming in patchy air.
YouTube – Scia off – Scia on
Scientific explanations:
Argument 15
During high chemtrail activity, hospital visits and sickness is reported to go up, this is clear proof that chemicals are present in aircraft contrails.
Airline activity only goes up or down depending on what time of day it is, and it is fairly consistent.
Let’s take the worlds busiest airport as an example: http://flightaware.com/analysis/graphs/airport/KATL
What you are feeling is allergies, and general bad feeling. This is because contrails will generally linger longer in higher humidity and dropping pressure, two things that commonly occur before a rain or thunderstorm. In the days following documentation of lingering contrails, rain or general bad weather usually occur.
Argument 16
Airline pilots acknowledge the existence of chemtrails.
No they don’t. Airline pilots deny, and can prove the contrary because they happen to know more than the average conspiracy theorist who sits behind their computer all day. My favorite debunking of chemtrails by an Airline Pilot with 15 years of experience:
If anyone would like to submit an argument, I’d be more than happy to produce a freshly-baked debunking for it.
A rant of logic…
Aerial spraying from airline altitude would be a highly inefficient and imprecise mode of delivering toxic chemicals to ground-based targets. For example, Pesticides are often sprayed on crops from airplanes flying at 30ft and below. Mosquito spraying is generally done from an altitude of 150 feet or less. Chemtrails are supposedly sprayed from an altitude of 30,000 feet or higher, where winds are known to be very strong and unpredictable, and would likely disperse them very unpredictably.
If the government was going to use chemicals to secretly control the population, it would be more effective to put them in our water and food supply, or if inhalation were necessary, to release chemicals from cars or buses.
Like all other conspiracy theories of this nature, the Chemtrail theory will eventually crash and burn (no pun), and go down in urban history as one of the largest and most elaborate internet hoaxes of all time.
There is simply no such thing as chemtrails in today’s world. It is amusing to watch people try and analyze “chemtrails” when they don’t even have a clue about airplanes, weather, ATC or aviation in general.
Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that the government does in fact mix viruses and toxic chemicals into jet fuel for the purpose of raining down on civilization. Why then do we only see these ‘chemtrails’ at high altitude? Why do planes not produce visible chemtrails on final for landing or on the ground taxiing, or during takeoff? I’ve never seen this and I’ve lived under an airport approach path for 16 years… Why have passengers onboard not noticed the chemicals being sprayed out of the wings of the aircraft during flight? I’ve taken plane rides many times in my life and I’ve never seen these chemicals being sprayed out of the wings of any aircraft.
I’ve heard some people argue that there are viruses mixed in with the fuel for the purpose of testing the population. I can debunk this in 3 seconds.
The heat of the burning fuel would kill any viruses instantly.

Some will argue that if I really believed chemtrails don’t exist, I would not take so much time trying to disprove them. In reality however, I simply hate to see so many people misled into believing something as false as chemtrails.
We must stop and realize that the sky is full of amazing and bizarre phenomena, such as rainbows, cirrus clouds, lightning, tornadoes, hurricanes, hail, the northern lights etc.
But as history has shown us time, after time again, that without understanding the underlying mechanisms of natural things that happen here on earth, humans always assume that fearsome monsters are responsible.

‘nuf said.




dragon1These ambiguities, redundances, and deficiences recall those attributed by Dr. Franz Kuhn to a certain Chinese encyclopedia entitled Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge. On those remote pages it is written that animals are divided into: (a) those that belong to the Emperor, (b) embalmed ones, (c) those that are trained, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fabulous ones, (g) stray dogs, (h) those that are included in this classification, (i) those that tremble as if they were mad, (j) innumerable ones, (k) those drawn with a very fine camel’s hair brush, (l) others, (m) those that have just broken a flower vase, (n) those that resemble flies from a distance.




You are needlessly worrying about something that DOESN’T EXIST.

WORRY about M-I-C, Electoral FRAUD, Federal Reserve, Education, Health – and CELLPHONES.





Modern US Navy RR-129 and RR-124 chaff countermeasures and containers. Note how the strips of the RR-129 chaff, bottom, are of different lengths, while those of the RR-124, top, are all the same length. The RR-124 is designed to prevent interference with civil ATC radar systems.


Chaff, originally called “Window” by the British, and Düppel by the Second World War era German Luftwaffe (from the Berlin suburb it was first found near), is a radar countermeasure in which aircraft or other targets spread a cloud of small, thin pieces of aluminium, metallised glass fibre or plastic, which either appears as a cluster of secondary targets on radar screens or swamps the screen with multiple returns.
Modern armed forces use chaff (in naval applications, for instance, using short-range SRBOC rockets) to distract radar-guided missiles from their targets. Most military aircraft and warships have chaff dispensing systems for self-defense. An intercontinental ballistic missile may release in its midcourse phase several independent warheads, a large number of decoys, and chaff.
It can also be used to signal distress by an aircraft when communications are not functional. This has the same effect as an SOS, and can be picked up on radar. It is done by dropping chaff every 2 minutes.

Second World War

Professor R.V. Jones
Professor Frederick Lindemann
Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris

The idea of using chaff developed independently in the UK and in Germany.
As far back as 1937, R. V. Jones had suggested that a piece of metal foil falling through the air might create radar echoes. In early 1942, a Telecommunications Research Establishment (TRE) researcher named Joan Curran investigated the idea and came up with a scheme for dumping packets of aluminium strips from aircraft to generate a cloud of false echoes. From a practical point of view it was found the most effective version were strips of black paper backed with aluminium foil cut to strips exactly 27 centimetres by 2 centimetres and packed into bundles weighing one pound apiece. The Head of the TRE, A. P. Rowe, code-named the device as “Window”.
Meanwhile in Germany, similar research had led to the development of Düppel. Once the idea had been passed to the US, Fred Whipple developed a system (according to Harvard Gazette Archives) for dispensing strips for the USAAF, but it is not known if this was ever used.
The systems were all essentially identical in concept: small aluminium strips (or wires) cut to one-half of the target radar’s wavelength. When hit by the radar, such lengths of metal resonate and re-radiate the signal. Opposing defenses would find it almost impossible to pick out the “real” aircraft from the echoes from the chaff. Other radar-confusing techniques included “Mandrel”, “Piperack”, and “Jostle”.
However, unaware of the opposing air force’s knowledge of the chaff concept, planners felt that using it was even more dangerous than not, since, as soon as it was used, the enemy could easily duplicate it and use it against them. In particular, the British government’s leading scientific adviser, Professor Lindemann, balefully pointed out that if the RAF used it against the Germans, the Luftwaffe would quickly copy it and could launch a new Blitz. This caused concern in RAF Fighter Command and Anti-Aircraft Command, who managed to suppress the use of Window until July 1943. At this time, it was felt the new generation of centimetric radars available to Fighter Command would deal with any Luftwaffe response to RAF Bomber Command use.
Examination of the Würzburg radar equipment brought back to the UK during Operation Biting and subsequent reconnaissance revealed to the British that all German radars were operating in no more than three major frequency ranges, and thus were prone to jamming. “Bomber” Harris, Commander-in-Chief (C-in-C) of RAF Bomber Command, finally got approval to use Window as part of Operation Gomorrah, the fire raids against Hamburg.

Fred Whipple

Sir Robert Watson-Watt


The US RRL organization learned about Window from the British, and put their own experts to work on how to best make use of it. A noted antenna expert, Dr. L.J. Chu, worked out the theory, and then Fred Whipple, an astronomer well-known in his field for his definitive work on comets, figured out how it should best be fabricated and used. Whipple, like many of the boffins pressed into war service, would retain fond memories of his military work and kept a prototype Window-cutting machine in his office for the rest of his career.
Window was being stockpiled in quantity, but there was still no commitment to its use. R.V. Jones kept lobbying for the go-ahead. On 23 June 1943, Churchill called a meeting of Chiefs of Staff to consider the question of Window. Jones made his case; Watson-Watt was still opposed, but Leigh-Mallory, in charge of Fighter Command, agreed that reducing the suffering of Bomber Command outweighed his concerns over the air defense of Britain. Churchill thought the matter over for a moment, and then called on his instinct for theatrical phrases: “Very well. Let us open the Window.”
Window went into operation in July 1943, during Operation GOMORRAH, the devastating raids on Hamburg. The Window strips were 30 centimeters long and 1.5 centimeters wide (12 by 0.6 inches) and were manually tossed out by crew members in packets containing 2,000 strips each. 46,000 packets were dropped. Window completely disrupted German air defenses. Night fighter radar operators reported ghostly British bombers approaching them at high speed and then disappearing abruptly, over and over again. Out of 700 bombers in the raid, only twelve were shot down.
Through most of the rest of the war, Window was dispensed by hand, though late in the conflict bombers were fitted with automatic dispensers. Bomber forces not only used Window for concealment, they also used it for decoying the defenses, dumping Window screens at a right angle to the actual direction of the main bomber attack, or even flying in circles around a target and dropping Window bundles to baffle the defenders.
In another one of the many ironies of the Wizard War, the Japanese had actually opened the Window in May, the month before Churchill’s decision, when they dropped strips of “giman-shi (deceiving paper)” to jam SCR-268 radars during a raid on Guadalcanal. The Japanese had discovered the same obvious trick, but the news failed to reach the Allied high command before they decided to let the cat out of the bag. To add to the irony, the Japanese never managed to obtain a real advantage from their giman-shi. One problem appears to have been the scarcity of aluminum, which meant they couldn’t produce enough giman-shi to make a real difference.

The first aircrew trained to use Window were 76 squadron. Twenty-four crews were briefed on how to drop the bundles of aluminised-paper strips (treated-paper was used to minimise the weight and maximise the time that the strips would remain in the air, prolonging the effect), one every minute through the flare chute, using a stopwatch to time them. The results were spectacular. The radar guided master searchlights wandered aimlessly across the sky. The AA guns fired randomly or not at all and the night fighters, their radar displays swamped with false echoes, utterly failed to find the bomber stream. A vast area of Hamburg was devastated with the loss of only 12 bombers. Squadrons quickly had special chutes fitted to their bombers to make the deployment even easier. Seeing this as a development that made it safer to go on ops, many crews got in as many trips as they could before the Germans found a countermeasure.
Although the metal strips puzzled the German civilians at first, the German scientists knew exactly what they were because they had developed Düppel themselves and refrained from using it for exactly the same reasons as Lindemann had pointed out to the British. Thus for over a year the curious situation arose where both sides of the conflict knew how to use chaff to jam the other sides radar, but refrained from doing so fearing that if they did so the other side would ‘learn the trick’ and use it against themselves.
The use of Window rendered the ground-controlled ‘Himmelbett’ (German for “canopy bed”) fighters of the Kammhuber Line unable to track their targets in the night sky and left radar-guided guns and spotlights useless. In response to this, a new tactic, called Wilde Sau, or ‘Wild Sow’, was developed by Oberst Hajo Herrmann to cope with the lack of accurate ground guidance, and led to the creation of three new fighter wings dedicated to these tactics, numbered JG 300, JG 301 and JG 302. Ground operators would radio-direct single seat fighters and night fighters to areas where the concentrations of chaff were greatest (which would indicate the source of the chaff), and allow the fighters to visually acquire their targets, often against the fires and searchlights below. A few of the single seat fighters used by these new wings had special installations of the FuG 350 Naxos radar detection gear to spot British bombers at night.

Kammhuber Line

A map of part of the Kammhuber Line stolen by a Belgian agent and passed-on to the British in 1942. The ‘belt’ and nightfighter ‘boxes’ are shown

The Kammhuber Line was the name given to the German night air defense system established in July 1940 by Colonel Josef Kammhuber.
The first version of the Line consisted of a series of radar stations with overlapping coverage, layered three deep from Denmark to the middle of France, each covering a zone about 32 km long (north-south) and 20 km wide (east-west). Each control centre was known as a Himmelbett zone, consisting of a Freya radar with a range of about 100 km, a “master searchlight” directed by the radar, and a number of manually directed searchlights spread through the cell. Each cell was also assigned one primary and one backup night fighter. The fighter used was usually a Dornier Do 17, Junkers Ju 88 or Messerschmitt Bf 110. This technique of Ground-controlled interception (GCI) was preceded by the use of single-engined non-radar equipped BF 109s guided-onto the attacking bombers by the illumination of searchlights, termed; Helle Nachtjagd – illuminated night fighting.
RAF bombers flying into Germany or France would have to cross the line at some point, and the Freya radar operators would direct the master searchlight to illuminate the plane. Once this had happened other manually-controlled searchlights would also pick up the plane, and the night fighters would be directed to intercept the illuminated bomber. Demands by the Bürgermeisters in Germany led to the recall of the searchlights to the major cities which undermined this system.
Later versions of the Himmelbett added two Würzburg radars, with a range of about 30 km. Unlike the early-warning Freya, Würzburg’s were accurate (and complex) tracking radars. One would be locked onto the night fighter as soon as it entered the cell and as soon as the Freya picked up a target the second Würzburg would lock onto it. All position reports were sent to the Himmelbett control centre thereby allowing controllers in the Himmelbett centre to get continual readings of the positions of both planes.
A Jägerleitoffizier would direct the German night-fighter to a visual interception with the RAF bomber using radio. Operations were manually coordinated using an “Auswertetisch” (the precursor of a “Seeburg” table).

To aid interception a number of the night fighters were fitted with a short-range infrared device known as Spanner but these proved almost useless. Later the short-range Lichtenstein radar was added to the aircraft, allowing them to detect aircraft once the operators had directed them into the area, making searchlights largely redundant.
The battle stations were known as “Kammhuber’s opera houses” and procedures developed in 1942 were used until the end of the war.


By the time the British dropped paratroopers on Bruneval, the Germans had a well-organized air defense system to protect the Reich from Allied air attacks. As mentioned, work on this network began in the summer of 1940, under the direction of Colonel Josef Kammhuber, who would rise through the ranks to major general. When Allied intelligence found out who was the mastermind behind the network, they called it the “Kammhuber Line”, and the name stuck.
When Kammhuber began his task, the tools at his disposal included the old visual observer network, sound location gear, searchlights, and two types of radars — Freya and Würzburg. The sound location gear was almost useless and quickly abandoned. Freyas could be used to direct a fighter to the vicinity of a bomber, but since Luftwaffe night fighters didn’t have AI at the outset, they were guided to the final attack using searchlights directed by Würzburgs. This was obviously a clumsy scheme and the Germans put great effort into developing an AI, discussed below.
Another problem was that the range of the Würzburg was inadequate. The solution was simple: Telefunken simply suggested that they increase the size of the Würzburg dish from 3 meters (10 feet) to 7.5 meters (24 feet 7 inches) to increase antenna gain. The rest of the radar was left generally unchanged, though the PRF was cut in half from 3,750 Hz to 1,875 Hz to adjust to the longer range.
The larger dish was tested and proved very effective, and so the “Würzburg Riese (Giant Würzburg)”, mentioned earlier, was promptly put into production. The original Würzburg antenna was a simple solid dish, but the Würzburg Riese had an unusual lattice framework structure. The dish was built by the Zeppelin company, and its construction reflected techniques used to build airships. About 1,500 Würzburg Riese radars were built, with the type going into operational service in 1941. There was also a variant of the Würzburg Riese known as the “Gustav”, an odd hybrid that had both Wuerzburg and Freya electronics, with a handful built and going into service in 1944.
The original Würzburg remained in service with anti-aircraft gun batteries. However, Telefunken felt they could improve on the design, and designed a new set, named “Mannheim”, that operated on the same 50 cm (600 MHz) band but had greater accuracy. Some late models even had automatic tracking. Mannheim went into service in mid-1943, and about 400 were built. Since the appearance of Mannheim was similar, though not identical, to Würzburg, it was often simply referred to as “Würzburg”. A handful of “Mannheim Riese” sets were built late in the war to support anti-aircraft missile research, with an oversized antenna like that of the Würzburg Riese, but the Mannheim Riese didn’t go into production.
It is unclear if the Kriegsmarine ever used either Würzburg or Mannheim. The interservice rivalries of the Reich would argue against it, but some sources claim that Würzburgs were used at coastal sites, possibly including naval installations. In any case, it does appear that the GEMA developed a gun-laying radar named “Flakleit g” for the Kriegsmarine, which was based on Seetakt and used the same 80 cm (375 MHz) band. Photographs show the Flakleit g to have some similarities to the US SCR-268 set, with a horizontally oriented and a vertically oriented antenna. It is tempting to think it used both vertical and horizontal lobe-switching to accurately track targets, but information on this radar is very hard to find and specifics are unclear.
From such beginnings, and after some trial and error to find the best procedures and tactics, the Kammhuber Line grew until in maturity it stretched in an arc from northern France, across the Low Countries, and into northern Germany, shielding the Reich from attacks from Britain. The line was divided into defensive cells, or “boxes”, each 43 kilometers wide by 34 kilometers deep (27 by 21 miles). Each box contained a Freya and two Würzburg-Riese radars. The box was known as a “Himmelbett (Four-Poster Bed)”.
The British realized that Freya was an early warning radar, and that Würzburg-Riese was used for aircraft tracking. Some British officials believed the second Würzburg-Riese was a backup, but R.V. Jones knew that the Germans couldn’t afford that level of redundancy. He guessed correctly that one Würzburg-Riese was used to track intruding Allied bomber formations, while the other was used to track Luftwaffe interceptors.
The three radars fed fortresslike command posts that were conceptually similar to British GCI stations. However, the German operators lacked PPI displays, and instead worked from staggered rows of seats in front of a huge screen with a map of the battle area. The layout resembled that of a movie theater with bleacher seats, and the command posts were called “Kammhuber-Kinos (Kammhuber’s Cinemas)” by German night fighter pilots. Operators in the lower bleacher seats shone lights on the screen to track the movements of aircraft. Blue lights meant friendly interceptors, red lights meant hostile bombers. Other operators standing behind the screen, trained in mirror writing, used marker pens to provide updates on the battle. Fighter controllers in the top seats kept the night-fighter crews up to date over radio. Smaller screens in “balconies” on either side of the “theater” provided updates for what was happening in the neighboring air-defense boxes.
Night fighters would stand by, flying orbits around a light/radio beacon, until a fighter controller got in touch with one and talked it to the vicinity of the target. The night fighter would then turn on its AI, acquire the target, and perform the attack. Although almost comically laborious by modern standards, by the standards of the time it was very ingenious. It was highly effective and a great improvement over the disjoint and primitive air-defense network that Kammhuber had at the outset.
The Kammhuber Line was continuously upgraded throughout its existence. The Würzburg-Riese was one improvement, and GEMA had also come up with two derivatives of Freya that had greater range and much better accuracy. One was named “Mammut (Mammoth)”, which essentially consisted of 16 Freyas, linked together in a giant array with 192 dipoles, 30 meters across and 10 meters high (98 by 33 feet). It was mounted on four vertical structural beams, which led British intelligence to call it “Hoarding” (British for the Yank term “Billboard”). About 20 were built, with the first going into service in 1942. Mammut was a fixed-position radar, but it used electronic steering to scan over a field of view of 100 degrees. In yet another example of the parallel nature of radar discovery, the Germans independently developed phased arrays while the Americans were working on the same technology, and in fact Mammut was the first phased-array radar to go into production. Two Mammuts were often built back-to-back to give bidirectional coverage. Mammut’s operating specifications were similar to that of Freya, with the same 2.4 meter (125 MHz) Freya band, 3 microsecond pulse width, and 500 Hz PRF. However, Mammut had a much higher peak power of 200 kW, giving it a range of about 320 kilometers (200 miles). It used horizontal lobe switching to obtain positional accuracy of about half a degree in the horizontal plane.

Mammut radar

Mammut had no real ability to determine altitude, since it was designed as a long-range warning radar to identify groups of intruders. Getting a better fix on the groups once they were detected was the business of the second derivative of Freya, named “Wassermann (Waterman)”. There were a number of different versions of Wassermann, but they all essentially amounted to eight or more Freyas mounted vertically on a steerable tower 60 meters (190 feet) high. About 150 were built, with the first going into operation in 1942.
Wassermann used electronic beam steering and lobe switching to achieve a vertical resolution of about 0.75 degree in the middle of its field of view, and a horizontal resolution of about 0.25 degree. Again, signal parameters were the same as Freya’s, except that Wassermann produced a peak power of 100kW and had a range of about 240 kilometers (150 miles). One variant, the “Wassermann S (Schwer / Heavy)”, had the array mounted around a tall cylinder, and so the British named the radar “Chimney”, applying the same name to the other variants of Wassermann.

Wasserman/Chimney radar

Both Mammut and Wassermann were excellent radars and became the backbone of the German early warning network. They proved surprisingly difficult to knock out, though eventually Allied strike fighters found that a barrage of rockets could do the job.
The Germans also operated a passive signals intercept operation, known as the “Y-Dienst (Y-Service)”, which used directional antennas and triangulation to locate Allied bomber formations from their radio emissions. The Y-Dienst had the advantage of being impossible to jam, and was an important element of the air-defense system.
Other German radars saw limited or selective service with the air-defense system. One was known as “Jagdschloss (Hunting Lodge)”, which was a wide-area radar produced by Siemens from development work conducted by GEMA. About 80 were built, with the first in service by early 1944.
Jagdschloss was used for tracking bomber formations over long ranges. The radar featured 18 dipoles mounted on a rotating horizontal structural beam 20 meters (66 meters) wide to generate a narrow radar beam in the shape of a vertical fan, with good horizontal resolution but little or no altitude determination capability. Jagdschloss operated at a slightly higher band than Freya, ranging from 2.3 meters to 1.8 meters (129 to 165 MHz); had a pulse length of a microsecond, three times better than Freya; a PRF of 500 Hz; and a peak power of 150 kW.
Jagdschloss was the first German production set with a PPI, transmitting PPI information directly to remote command headquarters over dedicated landlines, or directional 50 cm (600 MHz) radio links.
The Germans also developed an ingenious passive radar system named “Klein-Heidelberg”, probably developed by Telefunken considering the name, that was used only in coastal regions along the North Sea and English Channel. It worked by sensing Chain Home emissions, with one small antenna focused on a CH station to obtain the original radar pulse, and a larger steerable passive antenna, based on the Wassermann-S, that picked up CH reflections on bomber formations.
The time delay between the original and reflected CH signals defined an ellipse on a map, with the CH and Klein-Heidelberg stations at the focal points, that plotted the possible locations of bomber formations. The steerable antenna pinned down the actual location along the ellipse with accuracy adequate for an early-warning system. As with the Y-Dienst, it was effectively impossible to jam. It could only have worked with a floodlight radar like CH, as the Klein-Heidelberg wouldn’t pick up the output beam of a steerable or rotating radar set most of the time.
As an odd footnote to German radar development, late in the war the Germans actually introduced a radar named the “Elefant-Rüssel”, a floodlight system that was inspired by the British Chain Home longwave stations. It was built by the German Postal Authority with some help from Telefunken.
“Elefant (Elephant)” was the transmitter, sending a flood of radio energy over a 120 degree arc on the same 15 to 10 meter (20 to 30 MHz) band as CH. “Rüssel (Elephant’s Trunk)” was the receiver, which was located a kilometer away and used a steerable antenna to determine the direction of the echo. The Elefant-Rüssel was not used as part of the air-defense system. Some stations were set up on coastlines to track, inaccurately, V-2 rocket flights.
Elefant-Rüssel was not as capable as Freya. In fact, it was not as capable as Chain Home. It is difficult to figure out in hindsight what the point of it was, and the name “White Elephant” seems like it might have been more appropriate. It may have been a pet project of the Reich’s Postal Authority that nobody ever got around to killing off.
The Germans did not set up a comprehensive defense network in the East comparable to the Kammhuber Line. The Soviets were not into strategic bombing, with the primary mission of the Red Air Force being battlefield support of the troops — and the battlefront tended to shift, sometimes drastically, making investments into large fixed-site installations a poor use of resources.
The Germans adapted to the more fluid air-defense environment by being flexible. After the German advance into the USSR bogged down in late 1941, they set up a few Freyas at fixed sites, and then mounted the Himmelbett radar system on trains, shuttling them to where needed. They even mounted such a system on a cargo ship, and operated it in the Baltic beginning in early 1944 and up to the end of the war.


Early on Luftwaffe night fighters had a desperate need for an AI radar, which was finally supplied by a Telefunken-built radar named “Lichtenstein”, codenamed “Emil-Emil”.
The first Lichtenstein prototype was flying by the summer of 1941, and went into service as the “Lichtenstein B/C” in the spring of 1942. Lichtenstein B/C used an array of four cross-shaped antennas mounted on the nose of a night fighter. The radar operated at 50 cm (600 MHz), with a wide beam that provided a good field of view, a somewhat short maximum range of no more than 4 kilometers (2.5 miles), and an acceptable minimum range of 200 meters (660 feet). It used conical scanning, featuring a rotating element in the antenna electronic systems to spin the beam around. It was Carl Runge’s last contribution to the German war effort, since personal clashes eventually forced him out of Telefunken.
Lichtenstein B/C was mounted on the Luftwaffe’s primary night-fighter, the Messerschmitt Me-110 twin-engine fighter, as well as on night-fighter variants of the Junkers Ju-88 bomber. The larger and more powerful Ju-88 was a better night fighter than the Me-110, but Ju-88s were used for many roles, and there were never enough of them go around. Pilots were initially unhappy with the radar since the antenna arrays cut into the performance of their machines, but soon found out that it was far more effective than chasing after bombers illuminated by searchlights.

Lichtenstein B/C radar on Ju-88

RAF listening posts heard references between fighters and ground controllers about Emil-Emil, though they didn’t know what it was. After an electronic intelligence station in Britain picked up a signal from what seemed to be a German AI, a Vickers Wellington bomber was fitted with a receiver set to the appropriate frequency range and sent over Germany on a ferret mission in early December 1942. The mission worked a little too well, since the bomber was chewed up by a Ju-88 night fighter and almost didn’t make it back home.

Dornier 17

The Allies actually got their hands on a complete Lichtenstein B/C set on 9 May 1943, when a Ju-88 night fighter landed in Scotland, the crew having decided to defect. However, by this time, it was on the threshold of becoming old news. The Germans were working on an improved version of Lichtenstein, the “SN-2”, which provided greater range than Lichtenstein B/C.
The range increase was to be obtained by going to longer wavelengths, which turned out to be in the range of 4.1 to 3.7 meters (73.2 to 81.1 MHz), which were easier to generate at higher power levels. It also produced a wider beam, making it easier to spot intruders. This had been the crippling flaw of British longwave AI radars, since a wide beam led to too much ground clutter at low altitudes to be useful, but since RAF night bombers generally operated at high altitudes, the wide beam was a benefit to the Luftwaffe. As an unintended benefit, the new band also successfully camouflaged the new Lichtenstein from the Allies for several months, since the lower frequencies were in the Freya band and Allied ferrets didn’t realize that something else was there.

Lichtenstein SN-2 radar on Bf-110

Development of a radar-based air-defense network led the Germans to the problem of IFF, just as it had the British, and IFF proved even more troublesome for the Germans. An effective IFF system depends on standardization, and since the Nazi leadership’s technology policies were inconsistent and scatterbrained, IFF suffered accordingly.
At first, the Luftwaffe used a modified version of the Y-Geraet blind bombing system known as “Y-Verfahren” for fighter direction. The return signal that gave range though phase shift was transmitted for 20 seconds out of every minute by the aircraft’s radio, an idea consciously lifted from the British Pip Squeak scheme. Y-Verfahren basically put the burden of IFF on the ground station, but had the advantages of giving the range to the fighter. It also provided a navigation beam to get the night fighter back home in the dark and foul weather, a task which could be as dangerous as taking on an armed bomber.
However, like Pip Squeak, Y-Verfahren suffered from the fact that it was difficult to integrate with the radar network, and so the Germans worked in parallel on two more sophisticated IFF schemes:
GEMA had proposed an IFF named “Erstling (Firstborn)” in late 1938, with the Luftwaffe ordering several thousand about a year later. Erstling responded to Freya signals at 2.4 meters (125 MHz).
Telefunken was working on their own IFF by that time, which the German Air Ministry ordered into production in early 1941 as “Zwilling (Twin)”. Zwilling responded to Würzburg signals at 50 cm (600 MHz).
It is difficult to say that these were competing efforts so much as they were mutually indifferent. Wolfgang Martini protested the notion of fielding two different IFF systems, each of which only gave half the solution. In fact, Zwilling wasn’t even half the solution, since it proved unworkable in practice. Thousands were built, but many of them ended up being cannibalized for parts to build Erstlings. An improved “Zwilling J1” was built, but the better solution was to make Erstling compatible with Würzburg, or as it worked out, make Würzburg compatible with Erstling by the straightforward measure of tacking a 2.4 meter (125 MHz) interrogation system onto a Würzburg dish. The interrogator was named “Kuckuck (Cuckoo)”, with the scheme first introduced in the summer of 1942.
German IFF still didn’t get fully on track. The Allies were quick to figure out ways to interfere with it, and German pilots feared, correctly, that the enemy would also develop devices to home in on it. The Germans never even developed an IFF interrogator that could be carried on an aircraft, which hobbled the night-fighter crews. German engineers continued to work on IFF through the rest of the war, but never fielded an effective system.
The Germans also built an ASV radar, named “Hohentweil”. It was designed by the Lorenz company, which hadn’t given up on radar after losing the gun-laying radar contract to Telefunken’s Würzburg. Hohentweil operated at a wavelength of 50 cm (600 MHz), and featured various arrangements of cluttered dipole arrays, mounted on the nose of an ocean patrol aircraft, such as the Focke-Wulf FW-200 Kondor or the Junkers Ju-188. Hohentweil was an excellent set. It could spot a merchantman at a range of 80 kilometers (50 miles) and could pick up a submarine periscope at six kilometers (3.75 miles). Like the British ASV.II, it could perform searches by scanning to the sides, and then pinpoint a target in the forward direction using lobe switching. A version of Hohentweil was built for U-boats as well, but by the time it was available U-boat crews were so jumpy and intimidated that they didn’t want to use it, since they feared that the Allies might home in on it.


Hamburg aftermath

By March 1942, the Kammhuber Line was beginning to seriously bloody the night raiders. R.V. Jones knew that disrupting German radars would blind the Kammhuber Line, and he knew just how to do it. As far back as 1937, he had suggested that a piece of metal foil falling through the air might create radar echoes. In early 1942, a TRE researcher named Joan Curran, the only woman among the boffins, had investigated the idea and come up with a scheme for dumping packets of aluminum strips from aircraft to generate a cloud of false echoes. The strips were to be cut to a half wavelength of the operating frequency of the radar to be jammed, though later quarter-wavelength strips were used as well. Tests against centimetric AI.VII and AI.VIII radar showed it to be highly effective. The scheme was codenamed “Window”.
Although R.V. Jones wanted to use Window right away, he was overruled. Lord Cherwell, Watson-Watt, and RAF Fighter Command opposed the use of Window, since they believed that once Window was used, the Germans would immediately learn the trick and use it on raids over the British Isles in turn.
In reality, the trick was much too obvious. Like so many other inventions in the Wizard War, the British hadn’t been the only ones to think of it. The Germans also performed tests in 1942 on using foil strips to jam radar, calling the scheme “Düppel”. German leadership proved every bit as nervous about the idea as their British counterparts. When Hermann Goering heard about the tests, he ordered them to be stopped immediately and reports on the experiment suppressed. Goering had greater reason for fear than the British: by this time, Allied offensive bombing capabilities clearly outstripped the German ability to retaliate in kind, and in fact the imbalance would only get worse. Düppel clearly would hurt the Reich far more than it would hurt the British.
The British used other countermeasures and kept Window in reserve. One of the simplest countermeasures was to simply increase the size of the attacking formations, up to the size of the “thousand bomber raids” conducted by Bomber Command beginning in May 1942. This overwhelmed the defenses, providing far more targets than a Himmelbett cell could tackle. However, it also created a “target rich environment”, and Luftwaffe night-fighter pilots eventually adjusted by simply having ground control direct them into the bomber stream, where they hunted targets on their own. The tactic was known as “Zahme Sau (Tame Boar)”, and as it placed more load on a night fighter’s AI system, it led to the effort to develop the improved Lichtenstein SN-2 AI. Kammhuber protested the use of Zahme Sau, insisting that he could compensate if given more resources, but he was ignored.
Simple numbers were not a very good defense against the Luftwaffe. In the summer of 1942, the RAF introduced a broadband radar jamming system named “Mandrel”, designed by Robert Cockburn’s countermeasures group at the TRE, that blinded Freya, Wassermann, and Mammut early-warning radars by throwing out radio noise on the Freya band. Mandrel was originally installed on fighters that escorted bomber formations to their targets. When Mandrel was installed on RAF bombers beginning in December 1942, RAF bomber losses fell substantially.
The Germans adapted by retuning some Freya systems from 2.4 meters (125 MHz) to 2.78 meters (107.9 MHz). The British responded in turn by modifying Mandrel to cover both frequencies, and the race between radar and jammer was on, with the British developing many variants of Mandrel.
The British also developed a jammer named “Shiver” to disrupt Würzburg, though Würzburg’s tight beam made this a much more difficult task, leading to an improved jammer named “Carpet” that could be tuned to various frequencies in the Wuerzburg band. While jamming had generally been done to that time using sine-wave signals, Cockburn had concluded that using random “white noise” signals was a much better option. It was much harder to compensate for, and it could be misinterpreted by victims as a defect in their own gear or natural interference.
White noise generators were improvised from what was available. Gas-filled tubes that ionized at specific voltages were used in voltage regulators at the time, and it turned out that they produced a nice noisy output if filter capacitors were removed. Photomultiplier tubes, normally used to amplify faint light signals, also produced a noisy “dark current”. Both these devices were used as noise generators until purpose-built gas tubes were introduced.
A formation of 20 bombers, each with a Carpet  jammer, could blind Würzburgs and Mannheims. Unfortunately, a bomber that radiated a continuous jamming signal also announced its presence to enemy fighters. The British came up with a new, more intelligent jammer system named “Carpet II”, which was able to scan through the Würzburg frequency range, identify a frequency in use, jam it for 30 seconds, and then move on. The jammer did not stay on frequency long enough to allow a fighter to home in on it, and with enough bombers, jamming coverage was effectively continuous. The concept of jumping frequencies, known as “frequency agility”, would became more important in the following decades.

The effect of "window" upon a Giant Wuerzburg display screen

Still another jammer, “Airborne Grocer”, was developed to jam Lichtenstein 50 cm (600 MHz) transmissions. They also designed a “Ground Grocer” counterpart, but it operated from long range and simply didn’t have the power to be effective.
Jamming radars by dumping noise into them was a crude trick. A more elegant approach was to deceive or “spoof” them, or trick them into seeing things that weren’t really there. Like many of the weapons of the Wizard War, spoofing was more or less invented by accident. In July 1941, British technicians were calibrating a Chain Home radar when an aircraft transmitted Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) signals into the radar at relatively high power by accident. To the technicians, the aircraft looked like a large number of fighters approaching, and the British realized that such a technique might be used to confuse German Freya radars.
Cockburn’s team developed a device named “Moonshine” to spoof Freya, and tests in March 1942 against Chain Home stations demonstrated its effectiveness. Moonshine was a “pulse repeater”. It listened for a pulse from a radar transmitter, and then fired back a spread-out pulse on the same frequency that fooled the radar receiver into “seeing” a reflection that appeared to be from a huge formation of bombers.
Moonshine transmitters were installed in twenty obsolescent Boulton-Paul Defiant two-seat fighters beginning in the spring of 1942. Moonshine went into operation that summer, with the Defiants providing a diversion for the USAAF’s first raid on Europe, against Rouen, France, on 17 August. Moonshine proved valuable at first, but it was only used for a few months since the Germans gradually got wise to it and recognized the spoofing for what it was. It was then set aside to be used on special occasions when the Germans weren’t expecting it.
The British also attempted to jam or spoof communications channels between night fighter and their ground controllers. In December 1942, along with Mandrel, the British introduced a radio jammer named “Tinsel”, which used microphones placed in the engine nacelles of a bomber to broadcast loud audio noise over Luftwaffe communications links.
Improved radio jamming systems were introduced in 1943. “Ground Cigar” went into operation in July, followed by “Airborne Cigar” in August, and then “Corona” in October. Corona was a full-fledged spoofing operation, with German-speaking British “controllers” breaking in on German ground-controller channels and trying to confuse night fighter pilots. At first, the British “controllers” were given away by obvious accents, but they refined their skills, and there were occasions where Luftwaffe pilots sat through arguments between two controllers, each insisting that he or she was the German and that the other was the Briton.
The RAF also configured aircraft as dedicated electronics warfare aircraft. Boeing B-17G Flying Fortresses, known in RAF service as Fortress IIIs, were configured with H2S, jammers, and warning systems and used to protect bomber streams.
British intelligence soon discovered the nature of the Kammhuber Line and started studying ways to defeat it. At the time RAF Bomber Command sent in their planes one at a time to force the defenses to be spread as far apart as possible, meaning that any one aircraft would have to deal with little concentrated flak. This also meant the Himmelbett centres were only dealing with perhaps one or two planes at a time, making their job much easier.
At the urging of R.V. Jones, Bomber Command reorganized their attacks into streams of bombers, carefully positioned so the stream would fly down the middle of a cell. Data provided to the British scientists allowed them to calculate that the bomber stream would overwhelm the six potential interceptions per hour that the German “Tame Boar” (Zahme Sau) night fighters could manage in a Himmelbett zone. It was then a matter of calculating the statistical loss from collisions against the statistical loss from night fighters to calculate how close the bombers should fly to minimise RAF losses. The introduction of Gee allowed the RAF bombers to fly by a common route and at the same speed to and from the target, each aircraft being allotted a height band and a time slot in a bomber stream to minimize the risk of collision. The first use of the bomber stream was the first 1,000 bomber raid against Cologne on the night of 30/31 May 1942. This tactic was extremely effective, leading to fighting between Kammhuber and Erhard Milch, his boss.

A Lancaster within the bomber stream dropping chaff – the crescent-shaped white cloud on the left of the picture

Dresden in 1945

Although the success rate of the Line dropped, the network of radars and plotting stations continued to prove their worth. Now when a raid started, night fighters from any base within range would be directed into the stream, where it was hoped they would be able to find aircraft with their radar. At the same time a massive building program started to add hundreds of Würzburgs to the system, although the infrastructure needed was extensive. The boxes were initially the radius of the Würzburg radars, about 22 miles but more powerful radar later on made the boxes up to 100 miles across. Eventually, the line of boxes would be several deep, especially around larger towns and the Ruhr valley. Once again the system started to score increasing successes against the British raids.

The British were ready for this development and as soon as the rates started to improve – for the Germans – they added ‘windowing’ cover. By dropping chaff from a number of “lead” bombers, the German radar operators saw what appeared to be a stream entering their box, each packet of chaff appearing to be a bomber on their displays. Night fighters would then be sent to attack this stream, only to find empty space. Just as the fighters reached the chaff stream, the “real” stream would appear hundreds of miles away, too far to be attacked. The first time this was used was during the firestorm attack on Hamburg, (Operation Gomorrah) and proved spectacularly effective. The German radar operators eventually learned to spot the lead bombers at the edge of the windowing, making it less effective.
A lesser-known fact is that the Luftwaffe used this technology just six weeks after the above-mentioned Hamburg raid. The German strips were cut into 80 centimetre by 1.9 centimetre lengths and first dropped during a raid on 7-8 October 1943. In a series of raids in 1943, and the ‘mini-blitz’ of Operation Steinbock between February and May 1944, Düppel allowed German bombers to once again attempt to operate over London. Although theoretically effective, the small number of bombers, notably in relation to the RAF’s now-large night fighter force, doomed the effort from the start. The British fighters were able to go aloft in large numbers and often found the German bombers in spite of their Düppel.

B-24 bomb strike on a German Rail yard


For a time after the introduction of Window, RAF Bomber Command conducted night raids over Germany with relative impunity. Field Marshal Erhard Milch, in charge of German aircraft procurement, commented: “I am beginning to think that we are sitting on a limb, and the British are sawing that limb off.”
Hermann Goering was disgusted. “In the field of radar they must have the world’s greatest genius. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops … The British would have never dared use the metal foil here if they had not worked out 100% what the antidote it. I hate the rogues like the plague, but in one respect I’m obliged to take off my cap to them. After the war’s over, I’m going to buy myself a British radio set, as a token of my regard for their high-frequency work.”
Goering’s comments about Germany’s radar “nincompoops” were revealing, since it was something of a self-fulfilling judgement. Allied leadership clearly gave greater priority and respect to their technical resources than their German counterparts, who seemed to regard their own boffins as a resource that would provide miracles spontaneously, to be browbeaten when they failed. In fact, many of their radars were ingenious, well-designed, and highly capable given the limitations of longwave systems. In one of the many illuminating ironies of the story, most German microwave work had been cancelled by the authorities just before the capture of the Rotterdam Geraet earlier in the year.
Goering was also dead wrong about the British having countermeasures against Window. The only actual countermeasure they had was the fact that they and the Americans had large numbers of heavy long-range bombers and the Germans did not, making the use of Window a good gamble.
The Germans would in fact use Düppel themselves, beginning in October 1943 and particularly during the “Baby Blitz” on England in January 1944, but Luftwaffe bomber formations were too small to achieve the densities of Düppel needed to be effective. The British decision to open the Window proved completely justified by later events.
On reading a report about the Rotterdam Geraet, Goering later commented: “We must admit that in this sphere, the British and Americans are far ahead of us. I expected them to be advanced, but frankly I never expected them to get so far ahead. I did hope that even if we were behind, we could at least be in the same race!” Kammhuber, who had antagonized his superiors with his single-minded focus on his own agenda as the ultimate priority of all activities of the Reich, would be fired in mid-September after several failures to adequately deal with RAF raids, with General Josef “Beppo” Schmid taking his place as commander of night defense operations.
By late spring 1943, the RAF and USAAF were dumping hundreds of tonnes of Window a month, but the Germans were beginning to recover. They would never defeat it completely, but they were gradually able to take back some ground they had lost. In fact, RAF night bomber losses continued at a high rate, which leads to the ugly question of just how bad they would have been if the Allies hadn’t developed countermeasures.

The German defense was particularly assisted by a stroke of luck. By coincidence, the improved Lichtenstein SN-2 radar began to go into service in July 1943, at about the same time that the Allies started using Window. SN-2 turned out to be the right thing at the right time, since at the time the Allies were using Window cut to lengths appropriate to shorter wavelengths, and the SN-2 could cut through the interference. Although the British were jamming Freyas and other early-warning radars, ground controllers could still use the unjammable Y-Dienst direction-finding system to direct night fighters into bomber streams, where they could use SN-2 to hunt down targets. The weak link in the Zahme Sau scheme was the ground controller communications channel, and so the Allies stepped up their efforts to jam or spoof the communications.
SN-2 was sometimes fitted to night fighters along with the older Lichtenstein B/C sets, which provided higher resolution when jamming could be overcome. In the late stages of the war, the Germans would also deploy an improved longwave AI named “Neptun”, derived from a simple tail warning radar of the same name, and which apparently was originally designed as an ASV. The Neptun AI operated over a relatively wide range of frequencies and had a maximum range of up to five kilometers (three miles) and a minimum range of a hundred meters (330 feet), but it was too little and too late.
The Luftwaffe also used another tactic to complement Zahme Sau, known as “Wilde Sau (Wild Sow)”, in which Luftwaffe day fighters conducted night attacks using the flames of the burning cities to spotlight Allied bombers. Wilde Sau proved effective, but day fighters, not having been designed for night operations, suffered from landing accidents and a simple, dangerous tendency to get lost at night.
Some of the German countermeasures were clever. The Germans built a system named “Flammen (Flames)”, that could home in on IFF Mark III signals, a trick that was helped along by the fact that some RAF crews superstitiously thought that their IFF could jam Wuerzburg and so left it on all the time. RAF losses climbed until December, until the Allies got wise to the trick and ordered pilots to turn off their IFF over hostile territory. In turn, the British would hunt Luftwaffe bombers using German IFF during the Baby Blitz. Similarly, when the RAF deployed a tail warning radar named “Monica” on their bombers in June 1943 as a means of warning the pilot that an attacker was on his tail, the Germans quickly invented a device named “Flensburg” to home in on Monica emissions. This was particularly ironic, since Monica had been so prone to false alarms due to other bombers in the stream that it was of little use in the first place.
While the Germans tried to deal with Allied countermeasures, they were also working on centimetric radar, using the Rotterdam-Geraet they had captured early in 1943. They had quickly determined that the device operated at centimetric wavelengths, and Professor Leo Brandt of Telefunken was assigned to reverse-engineer the device. The Telefunken factory in Berlin was bombed on 1 March 1943 and the device was destroyed, but that same night a Halifax bomber was shot down over the Netherlands, providing a replacement. This time, the device was taken to a flak tower, one of the huge reinforced concrete “castles” used to protect anti-aircraft batteries.
As it turned out, the Germans did not have time to deploy centimetric radar themselves. They were so desperate for components that the wreckage of Allied bombers was scavenged for magnetron parts. 25 “Berlin” 10 cm (3 GHz) AI sets were built late in the war, but only a few were ever fitted to night fighters and they saw little or no action. The improved “Bremen” variant never got beyond a single prototype. A microwave ground-based search radar named “Marbach” was developed and saw some use near the end of the war. Marbach had a peak power of 20 kW, a pulse period of 0.6 microseconds, a PRF of 500 hertz, and a maximum range of about 50 kilometers (31 miles). A targeting radar named “Kulmbach”, with similar specifications but a tighter beam and half the range, was also built. The two radars were linked to form the “Egerland” fire-control system, but only two Egerlands were built before Germany’s surrender.
However, the Germans were able to develop effective countermeasures against centimetric radar, and in fact the Germans were so focused on countermeasures that radar development was necessarily a lower priority. Telefunken built a simple detector named “Naxos” that could pick up 10 cm (3 GHz) H2S transmissions, and a more sophisticated detector named “Korfu” with greater range and accuracy. Korfu saw little use, but Naxos saw widespread service.
There were two different types of Naxos. “Naxos Z” was developed for night fighters and mounted in a blister on top of the fighter’s canopy. It could detect an RAF bomber from much longer range than Flensburg Monica-homing system. Another version of Naxos, “Naxos U”, was provided to U-boats to allow them to detect 10 cm (3 GHz ASV), though by that time the U-boats were entirely on the defensive and it did them only a little good. Naxos was further hobbled by the fact that it proved very fragile in field conditions, and working out the bugs ended up being troublesome.
Although the kind of technical improvisation by the bottom ranks that in particular characterized the US military was not encouraged by the strictly hierarchical German military, it did happen. A captain and a sergeant in the air-defense system came up with the bright idea of hooking up a Naxos to a Würzburg dish system, resulting in “Naxburg”. Naxburg had a directional accuracy of about 1 degree and range limited only by line of sight. It became an important addition to the Y-Dienst signals intelligence network.
The British continued to develop countermeasures of their own. RAF bombers were equipped with primitive “passive” radar-warning receivers to warn them they were being hunted by night fighters. The first was “Boozer”, introduced in 1943, which used a tail-mounted antenna to pick up Lichtenstein transmissions and turn on a warning light to alert a bomber pilot. Boozer did not generate emissions to give away the bomber, but it was also not very discriminating and gave continuous false alarms. Bomber crews soon learned to turn it off and ignore it.
They also fought back directly. The RAF equipped Mosquito night intruders with a device called “Serrate” to allow them to track down German night fighters from their Lichtenstein B/C and SN-2 radar emissions, and also fitted Mosquitoes with a device named “Perfectos” that tracked German IFF. The secrets of Lichtenstein SN-2 and German IFF had been dropped into the hands of the Allies in July 1944, when the pilot of a Ju-88 night fighter flew the wrong way against a landing beacon and landed in the UK by accident.
Countermeasures led to more countermeasures. The Germans built a tail-warning version of Naxos, known as “Naxos ZR”, to warn their night fighters that they were being tracked by centimetric radar. The Luftwaffe went to great lengths to hunt down the hated Mosquitoes, though with limited success. With the Reich crumbling, the Germans were increasingly unable to even find fuel to keep their fighters flying.
As the Luftwaffe began to run out of steam, the Germans relied more and more heavily on anti-aircraft artillery to defend the Reich. This led to an Allied emphasis on jamming Würzburg and Mannheim gun-laying radars, and a German emphasis on developing counter-countermeasures. The contest went on to the end of the war.
The Germans managed to overcome Carpet jamming by providing Würzburg and Mannheim with a second band in the fall of 1943. The new band was centered around 58 cm (520 MHz), in contrast to the original band of 54 cm (560 MHz). A year later, they added a third band, around 66 cm (455 MHz). An adapter named “Wismar” was introduced in the summer of 1944 to allow rapid switching between bands.
Of course, as mentioned, the Allies improved the jammers to cover the new bands. Eventually, SIGINT receivers were carried on some bombers to determine enemy radar operating frequencies so the jamming could be focused on those bands for maximum effectiveness. Electronic warfare specialists, or “Ravens”, became an essential member of the bomber force crew.
The Germans tried more sophisticated counter-countermeasures as well. They devised an enhancement to Würzburg called “Würzlaus” that was introduced in the fall of 1943. Würzlaus could perform a limited amount of discrimination of targets on the basis of their motion. Moving objects caused a frequency shift, or “Doppler shift”, in the radar waves reflected off them, and this frequency shift could be measured to sort out drifting Window clouds from the bombers that dumped them. The “laus” suffix was derived from the German word for “louse”, and so the name basically meant “Würzburg delouser”. Würzlaus was an early attempt at what would become “Doppler radar” after the war.
The Germans introduced two other enhancements at the same time, named “Nürnburg” and “Taunus”. Nürnburg tried to sort out radar reflections that had an audio-frequency component, due to the engine vibrations of the target. Taunus was similar to one of the counter-countermeasures schemes developed for Chain Home, a filtering scheme that emphasized persistent targets (targets) and deemphasized transient ones (jamming). Yet another counter-countermeasures scheme, “Stendal”, tried to zero in on the jammer itself to target the carrier aircraft. Stendal turned out to be too inaccurate to be useful.

B-24 bomb strike on a German Rail yard

The Germans tried to improve on and combine these techniques, developing a scheme named “K-laus” near the end of the war that combined Doppler measurements with filtering, taking a bigger step towards Doppler radar. However, in general, the German counter-countermeasures were not very effective. In those days, radar operation was an art form, since radars effectively returned unprocessed data that a skilled operator had to interpret, picking out signals from the noise. Jamming only made matters worse. The German counter-countermeasures required very skilled operators to make good use of them, but the skill level of their operators was never very high on the average, and was degrading as more and more manpower was drained away to the front to hold back defeat.
Even when their radar was blinded, the anti-aircraft batteries generally kept up a heavy rate of fire, focused on the best guess for where the intruding formation was, and actually scored enough kills to make Allied countermeasures officers wonder if the countermeasures were actually working. Such “predicted barrages” also helped reassure the local population by at least giving the sound of putting up a strong defense. However, predicted barrages wasted enormous amounts of ammunition. During a raid through overcast by 720 USAAF bombers on Hamburg on 25 October 1944, the Germans fired over 24,400 rounds of heavy anti-aircraft ammunition, and shot down one bomber. Shortly after that, faced with using up ammunition faster than it could be manufactured, the practice was restricted to defense of high-priority installations. Bomber losses to flak then fell by 75%.


Over in the US, in December 1941, not long after Pearl Harbor, the push came down from the top to establish a countermeasures group named the “NDRC Division 15” or the “Radiation Research Laboratory (RRL). The RRL originally existed as an office in the Rad Lab. Its objectives were to develop countermeasures systems; help improve the resistance of US radars and other electronic systems to enemy countermeasures; and develop signals intelligence systems to monitor enemy radars and other electronic systems.
Luis Alvarez was offered the job of running the RRL, but he had other commitments and didn’t feel up to a major management job anyway. On his recommendation, the RRL was given to Frederick Terman, previously head of Stanford’s Electrical Engineering department.
The RRL was originally set up as an office at the Rad Lab. There were some tension between the RRL and the rest of the Rad Lab. A few of the Rad Lab engineers reacted emotionally when RRL engineers pointed out vulnerabilities in Rad Lab radars, the Rad Lab people feeling that the RRL was making life unnecessarily harder for them. Cooler heads pointed out that the enemy would certainly implement all the countermeasures they could think up and it was important to stay a step ahead; the message was accepted, if grudgingly.
However, the RRL quickly grew large and was soon, as planned, spun off as an independent organization, sited at Harvard University. Terman ran the RRL under an interesting arrangement where the research staff was basically on loan from their normal employers, who were still responsible for pay and benefits. The government reimbursed the companies for their expenses. This scheme allowed the workers to acquire seniority with their normal employers while they were working at RRL.
The RRL also had to spend considerable effort to make sure their most unreplaceable staff wasn’t snatched up by the draft board and put in the ranks, with the RRL in some cases sending their people overseas on field investigations to get them out of reach. The NRL and Signal Corps didn’t have this problem, since any of their people were targeted by the draft, they could be simply enlisted and come into work in uniforms instead of civilian clothes.
In April 1942, Terman went to the UK for six weeks to visit with Cockburn and his group at the TRE. The two men got along very well, and Terman was impressed by the skills of his British hosts. Cockburn visited the US in October 1942, of course including RRL in his list of places to visit, and was impressed in turn. The cooperation between the TRE and RRL remained good through the conflict. The RRL established an “American-British Laboratory of Division 15”, or just “ABL-15”, at the TRE site in Malvern to ensure that the two groups worked closely together. ABL-15 eventually grew to be as big as the TRE itself, with the joint lab focusing on immediate operational issues while the TRE conducted more fundamental research.

Not all of the collaborations worked well. In response to the limitations of the British Ground Grocer Lichtenstein B/C jammer, the RRL developed a monster ground-based jammer named “Tuba”, with an oversized horn antenna and a small fleet of support trucks. Tuba could light up fluorescent bulbs a mile away, and flammable things accidentally placed in the output path quickly caught on fire. It was superficially impressive but in practice never very effective, proving a nuisance to German night-fighters that were just across the Channel but causing no real bother otherwise.
Some other RRL projects worked much better. The RRL built their own designs of the Mandrel Freya jammer, known as “AN/APT-3” for airborne use and “AN/SPT-3” for shipboard use, and the Carpet Wuerzburg jammer, known as “AN/APT-2” or “AN/SPT-2”. As with the British, the RRL built improved versions of Carpet, and also built a number of other jammers, including “Dina”, “Rug”, and “Broadloom” to cover the spectrum of enemy radars.
The USAAF resisted the introduction of the Carpet for a time, since their initial bombing policy was for daylight, clear-weather strikes where radar jamming of Wuerzburg was of little use, but RRL managed to convince the service to adopt it anyway. The wisdom of this would become obvious once the USAAF began to use H2X to bomb on overcast days.
Late in the war, RRL also introduced a communications jammer, the “AN/ART-3 Jackal”, which was used to disrupt German tank radios. It was used in support of Allied counterthrusts against German armor during the Battle of the Bulge in late 1944 and early 1945. RRL also developed microwave radar jammers, but as will be discussed the enemy never got any microwave radars into real operation.
Ironically, even before the RRL had built any jammers, the USAAF had been jamming German radars without trying. The SCR-522 VHF radios carried on USAAF bombers happened to be on the same band as the Freya and could jam the radar when the radios were set to certain channels. The Germans realized this in early 1943, which suggested to them the possibility that they could use their own radios to jam Allied radars, but as it turned out no Allied radars were on the same band. The USAAF was slow to realize that the SCR-522 was jamming the Freya — but if the SCR-522 jammed the Freya, that meant that Freya was also jamming the SCR-522, and aircrews returning from missions over Europe complained of severe interference on certain radio channels. The problem was eventually traced to Freya, and RRL engineers designed fixes for the problem.
The Germans developed their own longwave jamming gear to blind Allied radars, including the powerful ground-based “Karl” jammer and much less powerful “Kettenhund” jammer, which was carried by bombers. They proved effective in disrupting SCR-268 longwave fire-control radars, leading to hasty efforts by the RRL to modify the SCR-268s to cut through the jamming. However, the German jammers were totally useless against microwave radars.
Signals intelligence gear was also part of the RRL’s charter. The Americans, or at least the US firms Halicrafters and General Radio Company (GRC), seemed to have acquired a particular skill at making radio receivers before the war, and during the conflict these receivers formed the basis for an ever-expanding range of Allied SIGINT gear. The British used the Halicrafters S-27 to pick up Seetakt and Freya emissions in early 1941, and the S-27 would be widely used by the Allies through the rest of the war.
The S-27 was a good piece of gear, but something more purpose-designed was needed. Luis Alvarez, always with a bright idea for somebody else to develop, enlisted an RRL engineer, a Canadian named Dr. Don Sinclair, to work with GRC to work between the RRL and GRC to modify the company’s “P-540” receiver into the US Army “SCR-587” and US Navy “ARC-1” SIGINT receiver, built by Philco.
The SCR-587 provided a bandwidth from 3 meters to 30 centimeters (100 MHz to 1 GHz) and was a valuable tool through the entire war. Don Sinclair would perform valuable work for the RRL in the lab and the field through the war. After the war, he would go to work for General Radio and eventually become company president.
The NRL also built small numbers of a SIGINT receiver, the “XARD”, that operated over the band from 6 meters to 30 centimeters (50 MHz to 1 GHz). It was a crude piece of gear, with tuning performed by adjusting the antenna, a tiresome scheme when the operator was searching back and forth over the band for possible “emitters”. It was also not very reliable, but it was one of the first US-built SIGINT receivers to be put into action, being taken on submarine patrols in the fall of 1942.
The SCR-587 was a much better piece of gear than the XARD, but even the SCR-587 had to be manually dialed over its band, which was tiresome and error-prone. The answer was to automate the process, allowing the receiver to automatically scan through its band.
The requirement was passed on to Peter Goldmark, an RRL engineer who had been borrowed from CBS. After the war, he would develop an alternative color TV system that didn’t prove successful but gave TV rival RCA fits, and more successfully developed the 33 1/3 RPM long-playing (LP) phonograph record — a universal technology until it was abruptly replaced by CD technology. His scanning receiver, the “AN/APR-2”, operated over the same band as the SCR-587. It could be set to scan over its bandwidth at different rates, using a neon indicator to show the frequencies where a signal was detected, and recording up to eight hours of monitoring on an electrochemical tape.

AN/APR-2 SIGINT receiver

The AN/APR-2 was a complicated piece of gear, and development proved troublesome. Goldmark was not very amused when one of his colleagues suggested that they drop a prototype on Japan, so that the enemy would struggle in vain for the rest of the war trying to get it to work. However, the RRL did manage to get it into service.


Hidetsugu Yagi

At the end of 1941, the Japanese began a wide-ranging offensive that swept through the colonial possessions of the British, Americans, and Dutch in the western Pacific, reaching as far southeast as the north coast of New Guinea to threaten Australia. Among the benefits of this spectacular wave of conquest was the fact that the Japanese obtained a number of British GL-type sets in Singapore, as well as a US SCR-268 set and a damaged US SCR-270 set on Corregidor.
The IJA put a modified version of the GL into production as the “IJA Tachi 3”. It operated on a band around 3.75 meters (80 MHz), had a pulse width of one to two microseconds, a peak power of 50 kW, a PRF of 1,000 or 2,000 Hz, and a maximum range of about 40 kilometers (25 miles). About 150 were built by Sumitomo, with the type going into service in early 1944. The Tachi 3 set was the first Japanese set to incorporate Yagi antennas, which was a great irony, since such antennas were the invention of Hidetsugu Yagi, a Japanese electronics researcher of global stature. To add to the irony, Dr. Yagi had been involved in the development of the IJA Type A interference detector.
On their part, the IJN recognized the SCR-268 as a good piece of gear and put a derivative of it into production as the “IJN Mark IV Model 1”. It operated in a band around 1.5 meters (200 MHz), had a pulse width of 3 microseconds, a peak power of 30 kW, a PRF of 2,000 Hz. and a maximum range of about 48 kilometers (30 miles). It was followed by the improved “IJN Mark IV Model 2”, which had basically the same general specifications except that the PRF was reduced to 1,000 Hz. The Japanese built a few hundred of these radars in all.
The IJA also tried to build derivatives of the SCR-268 in the form of the “IJA Tachi 1”, “IJA Tachi 2”, and “IJA Tachi 4”, all operating on the 1.5 meter (200 MHz) band used by the SCR-268, but these radars did not prove satisfactory and were only built in small numbers. Late in the war, the IJA did introduce a much more workable derivative of the Tachi 4, the “IJA Tachi 31”, also operating at 1.5 meters (200 MHz), with 70 built.
In the meantime, both the IJN and IJA fielded derivatives of their earlier fixed-site radars. The IJN Mark I Model 1 was followed in 1942 by about 300 of a lighter transportable 1.5 meter (200 MHz) version, the “IJN Mark I Model 2”, and then in 1943 about 1,500 of an even lighter portable version, the 2 meter (150 MHz) “IJN Mark I Model 3”.
As if in parallel lockstep, the IJA followed their Tachi 6 in 1943 with about 60 transportable 3 meter (100 MHz) “IJA Tachi 7” sets, and in 1944 followed that with about 400 portable “IJA Tachi 18” sets, operating in the same band.
Other than being lighter, these radars were no great advance over their predecessors, being roughly comparable to the British MRU. However, since the Japanese had developed their own magnetron, in fact well ahead of the Allies, they also developed their own 10 cm (3 GHz) microwave set for naval warfare. The “IJN Mark II Model 2” radar was introduced in 1942, and was well-received by naval crews as a great step ahead of the unsatisfactory longwave Mark II Model 1. About 400 were built and deployed on a range of vessels.
The Mark II Model 2 had a peak power of 2 kW, a pulse width of 2 to 10 microseconds, a PRF of 2,500 Hz, and a range of about 35 kilometers (22 miles) against a large naval surface target. It had separate cone-shaped transmit and receive antennas, giving it the odd appearance of giant toy binoculars. It did not have a PPI, no operational Japanese set ever did, which greatly limited its usefulness for naval operations.
The Japanese also developed a lightweight longwave set, the “IJN Mark II Model 4”, operating at 1.5 meters (200 MHz), for use on small vessels and submarines. It is unclear if it saw much service.
During the first months of the US war against Japan, the Americans were so overwhelmed that worrying about Japanese radar capabilities didn’t even make the list. The issue didn’t bob to the surface until the US Marines landed on Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands on 7 August 1942. The landings were not heavily opposed — a situation that gave a completely misleading impression of what to expect in the future — and the Marines quickly captured an IJN Type I Model 1 radar. The catch came as a surprise, apparently less because anyone thought the Japanese didn’t have radar than because few had given the matter much thought. The Japanese radar was dismantled and shipped stateside. NRL researchers found it crude, even in comparison with early American radars such as the SCR-270 and CXAM.

Consolidated B-24 Liberator

SIGINT receivers were quickly installed on submarines and aircraft to hunt for more Japanese radars. A Consolidated B-24 Liberator ferret that had been fitted with various SIGINT gear, including some lab breadboards, performed probes of the Japanese-held island of the Kiska in the Aleutians in March 1942, and discovered the signatures of two more IJN Type 1 Model 1 radars, which the SIGINT operator reported sounded exactly like the signature of the US SCR-270 longwave radar. Consolidated PBY Catalina flying boats were also configured as ferrets, and more Japanese radars were soon identified.
Submarine ferrets would prove as effective as their flying brethren, possibly more so because the enemy generally didn’t know submarines were around and didn’t turn off their emitters. However, no other types of Japanese radars were detected through most of 1943, though there were rumors and bogus “sightings” of other types, such as airborne radars that the Japanese simply didn’t have at the time.
Better information began to trickle in towards the end of the year, and in February 1944, following the capture of Kwajalein island, the Americans found documents describing a number of Japanese radars, most interestingly the centimetric Mark II Model 2 shipboard radar. Further landings during the spring and summer revealed more data about Japanese radars, including some sets captured intact.


The countermeasures war reached its highest form during the Allied invasion of Normandy on 6 June 1944.
R.V. Jones, working with a colleague in photo-reconnaissance named Claude Wavell, compiled a map of German radar assets to help pave the way for the assault. Some of the stations were located by photo or electronic reconnaissance, as well as reports from resistance groups, but subtler measures were used as well. The TRE set up a network of direction finding stations in England, codenamed “Ping Pong”, that could each pin down the location of a radar transmitter to within a quarter of a degree, with triangulation giving the exact location. In a particularly devious trick, the RAF flew solitary reconnaissance missions on precisely-defined tracks, with the German reports on the missions intercepted and decrypted, revealing locations of radar stations that had tracked the aircraft.
Three weeks before the invasion, Allied bombers and strike aircraft began to attack critical radar stations. Rocket-firing RAF Hawker Typhoon strike fighters proved most effective, but encountered heavy anti-aircraft defenses. The TRE fitted a few Typhoons with a device named “Abdullah” that could home in on radar sites; it was the ancestor of the modern “radar homing and warning (RHAW)” receiver used on “Wild Weasel” type defense suppression aircraft. Abdullah worked fine, but it proved to have a serious drawback. German radar sites that observed Allied aircraft flying straight down the boresight at them immediately put their flak defenses on full alert, and the effect of Abdullah was to simply make the attacks harder. It was set aside, and attack plans were modified so that the Typhoons flew an oblique course toward a radar site and only turned directly on it at the last moment.
Squadrons of countermeasures aircraft screened the airborne assault force and the naval force. The countermeasures aircraft carried Mandrel radar jammers and Airborne Grocer radio jammers, and dropped “Rope”, essentially the same thing as Window but cut to 1.7 meter (5 feet 6 inch) lengths to jam Freya frequencies. Window and Rope were collectively known as “chaff”. Incidentally, Rope led the Germans to introduce a Doppler detection system for Freya, of course known as “Freya-laus”, which was also used on Mammut. A similar device, “Wasserfloh”, was used on Wassermann.
The invasion fleet also carried 800 jammers, with some landing ships fitted out as dedicated jamming platforms. Of course, the landing force also heavily relied on radar, with radar beacons set up by pioneer teams on landing beaches and passive radar “corner reflectors” or “Angels” set up to mark obstacles. Since there were fears that the Germans might try to disrupt the longwave Eureka beacons with airborne Kettenhund jammers, a handful of British Mosquito night fighters were fitted with a TRE gadget named “Lucero” that could home in on Kettenhund transmissions.
Along with direct countermeasures, the Allies conducted a massive deception campaign with many facets. Signals deception efforts were used to create simulated armies that seemed to be poised for landings in the Calais area and in Norway. Another part was the construction of two electronically simulated landing fleets by a team of TRE boffins under Robert Cockburn.
Developing the scheme involved clearing Cockburn for briefing on the invasion plan, and after he was briefed in detail in February 1944, he could hardly sleep for days after being entrusted with such a dangerous secret.
The goal of the effort was to spoof almost 100 German radar stations along the French and Belgian coasts. Seetakt was the primary target, but the plan was designed to fool other radars as well. Rope was to be used to simulate vessels, with bundles dropped at low altitude to form a ship-sized cloud that disappeared into the water before it spread, to be replaced by another cloud of Rope.
Two simulated invasion fleets set out on the evening of 5 June 1944. One, codenamed TAXABLE, consisted of eight Lancaster bombers and moved in the direction of Le Havre. The second, codenamed GLIMMER, consisted of six bombers and moved towards Bologne, 300 kilometers (185 miles) farther east.
The bombers simulated a surface fleet by flying in a racetrack pattern about 22 kilometers (14 miles) long at a speed of 290 KPH (180 MPH). The crew members dispensed Rope on a precisely timed schedule to ensure that the Rope clouds advanced at a rate consistent with the motion of a surface fleet. Aircraft with Mandrel jammers accompanied the two “fleets”, but operated at low power to allow German radars to penetrate their “jamming”.
The whole scheme required detailed planning and coordination, and had been rehearsed against British radar operators in Scotland in May. They reported it effective, but just to make sure, another test was performed against a radar station on the Yorkshire coast where the operators hadn’t been briefed beforehand. They reported the biggest convoy they had ever spotted.
Following the rehearsals, Cockburn got hold of 18 launches and worked them into the deception plan. The launches were equipped with an enhanced version of the Moonshine pulse repeater tuned to the German Hohentweil ASV band, and also towed floats known as “Filberts” that were in turn tethered to 9 meter (30 foot) long barrage balloons. The Filberts carried 3 meter (10 foot) diameter Angels to simulate a large vessel.
British signal operators in the mock fleet began to pick up contacts with radars of German air patrols about midnight. When the deception fleets got to about 16 kilometers (10 miles) offshore from their targets, they generated smokescreens and played the sounds of a large fleet in operation over big loudspeakers.
Elsewhere, RAF Stirling and Halifax bombers performed a fake airborne assault, releasing Rope, as well as little dolls on parachutes that looked like real paratroopers from a distance, fitted with firecrackers to suggest small-arms fire. A few British Special Air Service commandos went in with the dolls to help create further confusion.
In the meantime, RAF Lancaster and Flying Fortress bombers blocked the real airdrops by dropping a wall of Rope and blasting out communications jamming. German night-fighters were dispatched to attack the fake airdrop, but couldn’t even find it when the communications jamming cut off their connection to their ground controllers. One RAF bomber involved in the deception exercise was shot down, the crew successfully bailing out. None of the transports involved in the true airdrop were attacked by night fighters.
Cockburn’s deception effort was successful as well, though it proved to be overkill. TAXABLE was not observed, mostly because most of the German radar stations it was intended to fool had been knocked out by air strikes. GLIMMER, on the other hand, seemed to have been very successful, sowing confusion among the Germans. R.V. Jones does not seem to have been directly involved in these two exercises. Given his inclination towards pranks, he likely wished he had been.
Following the German surrender, the Allies interrogated German radar systems operators to determine the effectiveness of countermeasures. To get hands-on data, in late June and early July 1945, the British performed Operation POST MORTEM, in which the air defense network dealt with flights of bombers simulating attacks. The British learned that Allied countermeasures had been highly effective, though not entirely perfect.
After the operation, some of the German gear was packed off to Britain and the US for analysis. Most of the rest was demolished, though some was quietly spirited away by organizations in the countries of what had been Occupied Europe for their own analysis, and items such as Wuerzburg-Riese antennas were used for purposes such as radio astronomy.


Falklands War

Chaff was heavily used by British warships in the Falklands War. The absence of chaff launchers on the Atlantic Conveyor, while used by all other Royal Navy ships in the group, may have led to the ship’s sinking by an Exocet missile – although given the vessel’s large radar cross section, it is unlikely that chaff would have been effective.
During the war, British Sea Harrier aircraft lacked their conventional chaff dispensing mechanism. Therefore Royal Navy engineers designed an impromptu delivery system of welding rods, split pins and string which allowed six packets of chaff to be stored in the airbrake well and be deployed in flight. It was often referred to as the “Heath Robinson chaff modification”, due to its complexity.





“admitted to aerosols and say it is to fight global warming” – INCORRECT. The study of aerosols is carried out to discover the part anthropogenic combustion activities play in global warming.

“as far back as ww 2 for radar” – CHAFF ISN’T AN AEROSOL.

“caught lying” – WHEREAS THE REST OF US?

“money and power” – NO, JUST POWER.

“This is military” – 5% OF AVIATION?

“heavy since 98-99” – NO, LONG BEFORE. 98-99 WAS CHEAP VIDEOCAMS.

“cats licking because they like salt” – MAYBE THEY NEED SALT…

“delivery system they need on or in aircraft” – ON THAT 5%?

“full of yourself, usually means you’re lacking” – LEARNT THOROUGHLY BY AGE OF 65!


Spelling corrected… can’t do anything about your ability to LISTEN.



e. coli

e. coli

“there have been tests…Aluminum, Fluorescent Particles of zinc cadmium sulfide, e.coli, bacillus globigii (it mimics anthrax), serratia marcescens, bacteria, phenol” – of RAINWATER. You will find ALL of these in COMMON GARDEN SOIL (excepting ZCS). There are MILLIONS of bugs on YOU. MANY of them are a lot more HARMFUL than KILLED bacteria.

“Believe what you want” – SCIENCE works independently from BELIEF. I am talking about ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE that has been KNOWN and PUBLISHED these last SIXTY years.

bacillus globigii

bacillus globigii

serratia marcescens

serratia marcescens

albertaoilers – “Chem Trails are out there” – there is proof of NOT A SINGLE ONE.

“but they have more of a checkerboard layout” – GRIDS are the result of TWO crossing routes of PASSENGER SHUTTLE flights.

“White C-130 are often observed around legitimate chemtrail reports” – there HASN’T BEEN a LEGITIMATE “chemtrail” report.


“If you want to ignore the evidence” – I ignore cherry-picked and manufactured evidence.

“If you dont believe the scientists” – I AM a scientist.

“Morgellons pathogens” – I go with Wikipedia.

“EDB banned US EPA” – Those wily farmers with their old pesticides…there’s none in jet fuel…

“Groups of 3 with jets flying front/side” – Military.

“Its not fairly harmless when its 7 times higher than safety limits and your inhaling it” – No dust is safe to inhale, let’s face it. What report was that?

“so why has anthrax been found in the air when chemtrails are being dispersed if its not in the air (when vapour trails have been seen)” – It is in the air. It’s an airborne pathogen. It’s natural. How could you distinguish chemtrails from persistent contrails?

“2 chemtrails” – oh dear we’re finished. The products of VAPOR TRAILS (they’re on the wrong side of the TROPOPAUSE) won’t fall to the ground beneath them unless the atmosphere REMAINS PERFECTLY STILL FOR DAYS. I’ve not seen that since 1976 (North Wales).


So what exactly is being measured?

* If “Morgellons” has a three hundred year old history, how could it have been aircraft that were dispersing that three hundred years ago? When was the switch to aircraft made?

If “Morgellons” is a tailor-made pathogen, who tailor-made it in 1708 AD?



“Allowing yourself to be a vessel for spreading deception is wrong whether or not you are doing (it) intentionally or out of ignorance” – Why, that’s the very nub of my anti-“chemtrail” argument! You are arguing with SCIENCE. Science is NEVER correct and ALWAYS amended, for it is understood to be FALLIBLE.

Nevertheless, in the case of “chemtrails” ALL CT ARGUMENTS SO FAR PRESENTED are based on the FAULTY UNDERSTANDING OF THE PHYSICAL NATURE OF THE ATMOSPHERE, coupled with an understandable dislike of the existing power structure (which I share – as if you cared).
Now arguing with Science is like arguing with Mathematics. Both function perfectly WITHOUT requirement of BELIEF. To present new arguments you MUST demonstrate you are FULLY cognizant of the totality of knowledge of either, and persuade OTHER WELL-QUALIFIED PEOPLE to EXPLORE and VALIDATE your new THEORY. Best of luck. None of you have ANY CHANCE of doing that – your COMPETENCE is WAY off the bottom of the chart.
YOUR standpoint is ALWAYS correct and NEVER amended, based on the writing of ignorant peasant tribes holding to an INFALLIBLE origin – a MYTH.
You bind each other with the LIES YOU TELL EACH OTHER.
It must be an IRONY for you that our “non-argument” was originated and continues only by courtesy of SCIENCE via this media.
So bugger off and get back to your mumbo-jumbo, burn a witch, stand on a mountaintop, continue making ridiculous and malevolent assertions, suck a goat, whatever.


Contrails to Cirrus

Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties

DAVID ATLAS – Laboratory for Atmospheres, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
ZHIEN WANG – Goddard Earth Science and Technology Center, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Baltimore, and NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
DAVID P. DUDA – National Institute of Aerospace, NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, Virginia


The observation of the transformation of aircraft contrails to cirrus clouds has been reported repeatedly over the last half-century.
Appleman (1953) was one of the first to determine the atmospheric conditions in which ice crystals would form and persist. Knollenberg (1972) made the earliest in situ microphysical measurements in the resulting cirrus uncinus clouds. Further microphysical studies were made by Heymsfield (1975), and again many years later (Heymsfield et al. 1998). Konrad and Howard (1974) provided an insightful morphology of contrail cirrus and fallstreaks as viewed by ultrasensitive radars.
A number of investigators have reported the origin and growth of the initial tufts associated with contrails (Lewellen and Lewellen 2001; Gierens 1996) while Schröder et al. (2000) measured their initial microphysical properties during their transition to cirrus.
The reader will also find a number of useful papers on the subject in a special issue of Geophysical Research Letters (1998, Vol. 25, No. 9) dealing with the program “The Subsonic Aircraft: Contrail and Cloud Effects Special Study (SUCCESS)” (e.g., Minnis et al. 1998; Spinhirne et al. 1998; Lawson et al. 1998; Uthe et al. 1998). A particularly enlightening study of the spreading and growth of contrail clouds has resulted from the numerical simulations of Jensen et al. (1998).
Recent interest in contrails has focused upon their climatic impact and their geographical distribution (Minnis et al. 2004; DeGrand et al. 2000). All of the above provide the background for the present study. The reader is referred to a fine review article by Minnis (2003) for further background.
It was the exciting view of the transformation of a series of contrails seen by the lead author and the fortuitous availability of nearly simultaneous satellite imagery and automated lidar measurements that triggered the present work.
The goals of this study are to provide further insight into the processes responsible for such transformations and to combine them with prior literature in the hope of attaining a more robust synthesis of the mechanisms than would otherwise be possible.
This work is two pronged, discussing 1) the morphology of contrails and their transition to cirrus uncinus, and 2) their microphysical and radiative properties.
It is based upon the fortuitous occurrence of an unusual set of essentially parallel contrails and the unanticipated availability of nearly simultaneous observations by photography, satellite, automated ground-based lidar, and a newly available database of aircraft flight tracks.
The contrails, oriented from the northeast to southwest, are carried to the southeast with a component of the wind so that they are spread from the northwest to southeast. Convective turrets form along each contrail to form the cirrus uncinus with fallstreaks of ice crystals that are oriented essentially normal to the contrail length.
Each contrail is observed sequentially by the lidar and tracked backward to the time and position of the originating aircraft track with the appropriate component of the wind. The correlation coefficient between predicted and actual time of arrival at the lidar is 0.99, so that one may identify both visually and satellite-observed contrails exactly.
Contrails generated earlier in the westernmost flight corridor occasionally arrive simultaneously with those formed later closer to the lidar to produce broader cirrus fallstreaks and overlapping contrails on the satellite image. The minimum age of a contrail is two hours and corresponds to the longest time of travel to the lidar.
The lag between the initial formation of the contrail and its first detectability by Moderate-Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) is thirty-three minutes, thus accounting for the distance between the aircraft track and the first detectable contrail by satellite. The lidar also provides particle fall speeds and estimated sizes, optical extinction coefficients, optical thickness (0.35 micrometres), and ice water path (IWP 8.1 grammes per square metre). These values correspond to the lower range of those found for midlatitude cirrus by Heymsfield et al.
The ice water per meter of length along the cloud lines is 103–104 times that released by typical jet aircraft. The synthesis of these findings with those of prior investigators provides confidence in the present results.
Various authors find that contrail-generated cirrus such as reported here contribute to net regional warming.





I’m happy to include here STARS15K’s reference list – all except my own site and some spoof sites. By leafing through this material and absorbing it, you could become sufficiently science-aware to be able to continue this blog yourself, for example. 🙂
http://profhorn.aos.wisc.edu/wxwise/AckermanKnox/chap15/contrail_applet.html (this site has a graph for you to set conditions and will fly a plane with the expected contrail formation at the top)
http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_sr/?src=/climate/ipcc/aviation/035.htm (this link has many chapters, be sure and drop the menu down to get the full report.)
http://www.dropletmeasurement.com/ (I just found this link on a chemtrail board. The poster claimed it showed chemspray planes. It doesn’t, it shows a company that does sampling and measurement IN SITU. I keep telling people that’s how a contrail would have to be tested, and this company can and does just that.)
http://www.astro.ku.dk/holger/IDA/notes.html (This site is older and some links might not work. It is a good representation that contrails are studied all over the world, though)
http://www.thebulletin.org/files/064002006_0.pdf A really well-done, balanced piece on geo-engineering. Not about chemtrails, but a good guide to use when considering that as a possible use/motive for chemtrail use.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13115866/Chemtrailscc-the-Not-So-Secret-Ingredient-022009 This is a pro-CT publication, but has a diagram of the chemical process of jet fuel through an engine and a statement that any metallic aerosol will remain suspended for days. These go against what I’ve been told by CT here. The conclusions reached, I do not agree with. Other research has shown that the barium in Stadis 450 after combustion is significantly small enough it might even NOT show on certain tests, being within the expected “norm” of background.
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/rayshad.htm This is the entire site address, which is very cool. It also contains past galleries I have only begun to explore.
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/contr1.htm This shows contrail shadows, aka ‘black beams’ or ‘black contrails’. There are two pages with explanations.
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/fz215.htm This page shows contrail shadows, but most importantly, two jets flying at the same altitude with different contrails. The reason? Something stated often, difference in the jet engines. One is more efficient than the other. So it happens, but for a known reason.

Turbofan Exhaust Constituents

Turbofan Exhaust Constituents

Written by JazzRoc

November 13, 2008 at 1:00 am

Posted in atmosphere, chemtrails, contrails, global warming, science, Truth

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Jet Spray

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Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…


Alex Jones has always been a louche popularist. No great intensity of thought here – a small brain behind a big, BIG, mouth. The “chemtrail” market was obviously TOO SMALL for hime to consider adding to his own, but, obviously and sadly, it must have GROWN to a size too large to ignore. So here it arrives, no doubt in its entirety, warts and all, nothing too crappy not to have been previously debunked.

Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet.com Friday, July 2, 2010

Scientists now admit that emissions from aircraft are forming artificial clouds that block out the sun, precisely what geoengineering advocates like top eugenicist and White House science advisor John P. Holdren have called for, but the article tries to insinuate that the effect is caused by natural “vapors,” when in reality it can be attributed to chemtrails that contain substances harmful to humans. “The phenomenon occurs when aircraft fly above 25,000ft, where the air temperature is around minus 30C. This causes water vapor emitted by the engines to crystallise and form the familiar white streaks across the sky, known as contrails,” writes Oliver Tree for the Daily Mail. “Reading University’s Professor Keith Shine, an expert in clouds, said that those formed by aircraft fumes could linger ‘for hours’, depriving those areas under busy flight paths, such as London and the Home Counties, of summer sunshine.”
“Experts have warned that, as a result, the amount of sunlight hitting the ground could be reduced by as much as ten per cent. Professor Shine added: “Over the busiest areas in London and the South of England, this high-level cloud could cover the sky, turning bright sunshine into hazy conditions for the entire area. I expect the effects will get worse as the volume of air traffic increases.” The report also makes reference to a 2009 Met Office study which found that high-level winds did not disperse contrails that later formed into clouds which covered an astonishing 20,000 miles.
Of course, this is no natural phenomenon as the article claims. Ten years ago, contrails from jet aircraft disappeared within minutes, yet apparently we are led to believe that the same substance is now causing the trails to linger for hours and form into clouds. This is impossible without something within the substance having been changed.
Mainstream science and academia has gone from dismissing chemtrails as a fantasy of paranoid conspiracy theorists to now accepting that they exist but claiming that they are natural and not artificially induced. In reality, chemtrails are the consequence of the agenda to geoengineer the earth in the name of combating climate change, a science vehemently backed by people like John P. Holdren, who in his 1977 book Ecoscience advocated poisoning the water supply to involuntarily sterilize humans as part of a “planetary regime” that would control every aspect of our existence. The fact that such eugenicists are now in control of geoengineering programs that will have a direct impact on our health is alarming.
Geoengineering programs have also been promoted by the Council on Foreign Relations, which is one of the main steering committees behind the implementation of global governance. A recent report issued by the UK government also calls for the UN to exclusively regulate world wide geoengineering of the planet in order to stave off man made global warming. Discussion of geoengineering technology is often framed as a future consideration, yet governments are already conducting such programs at an advanced stage.
The Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Program was created in 1989 with funding from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and is sponsored by the DOE’s Office of Science and managed by the Office of Biological and Environmental Research. One of ARM’s programs, entitled Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign (ISDAC), is aimed at measuring “cloud simulations” and “aerosol retrievals”. Another program under the Department of Energy’s Atmospheric Science Program is directed towards, “developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter.”
The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
U.S. government scientists are already bombarding the skies with the acid-rain causing pollutant sulphur dioxide in an attempt to fight global warming by “geo-engineering” the planet, despite the fact that injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere carries with it a host of both known and unknown dangers.
The proposal to disperse sulphur dioxide in an attempt to reflect sunlight was discussed in a September 2008 London Guardian article entitled, Geoengineering: The radical ideas to combat global warming, in which Ken Caldeira, a leading climate scientist based at the Carnegie Institution in Stanford, California, promoted the idea of injecting the atmosphere with aerosols. “One approach is to insert “scatterers” into the stratosphere,” states the article. “Caldeira cites an idea to deploy jumbo jets into the upper atmosphere and deposit clouds of tiny particles there, such as sulphur dioxide. Dispersing around 1m tonnes of sulphur dioxide per year across 10m square kilometres of the atmosphere would be enough to reflect away sufficient amounts of sunlight.” Experiments similar to Caldeira’s proposal are already being carried out by U.S. government-backed scientists, such as those at the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, S.C, who last year began conducting studies which involved shooting huge amounts of particulate matter, in this case “porous-walled glass microspheres,” into the stratosphere. The project is closely tied to an idea by Nobel Prize winner Paul Crutzen, who “proposed sending aircraft 747s to dump hugequantities of sulfur particles into the far-reaches of the stratosphere to cool down the atmosphere.” Such programs merely scratch the surface of what is likely to be a gargantuan and overarching black-budget funded project to geo-engineer the planet, with little or no care for the unknown environmental consequences this could engender.
What is known about what happens when the environment is loaded with sulphur dioxide is bad enough, since the compound is the main component of acid rain, which according to the EPA “Causes acidification of lakes and streams and contributes to the damage of trees at high elevations (for example, red spruce trees above 2,000 feet) and many sensitive forest soils.
In addition, acid rain accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable buildings, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation’s cultural heritage.”
The health effects of bombarding the skies with sulphur dioxide alone are enough to raise serious questions about whether such programs should even be allowed to proceed. The following health effects are linked with exposure to sulphur – Neurological effects and behavioral changes – Disturbance of blood circulation – Heart damage – Effects on eyes and eyesight – Reproductive failure – Damage to immune systems – Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder – Damage to liver and kidney functions – Hearing defects – Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism – Dermatological effects – Suffocation and lung embolism
According to the LennTech website, “Laboratory tests with test animals have indicated that sulfur can cause serious vascular damage in veins of the brains, the heart and the kidneys. These tests have also indicated that certain forms of sulfur can cause foetal damage and congenital effects. Mothers can even carry sulfur poisoning over to their children through mother milk. Finally, sulfur can damage the internal enzyme systems of animals.” Fred Singer, president of the Science Environmental Policy Project and a skeptic of man-made global warming theories, warns that the consequences of tinkering with the planet’s delicate eco-system could have far-reaching dangers. “If you do this on a continuous basis, you would depress the ozone layer and cause all kinds of other problems that people would rather avoid,” said Singer. Even Greenpeace’s chief UK scientist – a staunch advocate of the man-made global warming explanation – Doug Parr has slammed attempts to geo-engineer the planet as “outlandish” and “dangerous”. Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, who recently proposed a bizarre plan to send spaceships into the upper atmosphere that would be used to block out the Sun, admits that geo-engineering could cause “conflicts between nations if geoengineering projects go wrong.”
Given all the immediate dangers associated with bombarding the atmosphere with sulphur dioxide, along with the unknown dangers of other geo-engineering projects, many people are concerned that “chemtrails” are a secret component of the same agenda to alter the Earth’s eco-system. The fact that chemtrails are blocking out the sun, which is precisely what the geoengineering advocates call for, strongly indicates that they are an integral part of this dangerous and wide-reaching program.
The Government Is Already Geo Engineering The Environment – This graphic proposes, “Spraying aluminum powder and barium oxide into high levels of the atmosphere, again delivered by aircraft, to increase planetary reflectance (albedo) and cloud cover.” High levels of barium have been found in substances associated with chemtrails. Reports of chemtrails, jet plumes emitted from planes that hang in the air for hours and do not dissipate, often blanketing the sky in criss-cross patterns, have increased dramatically over the last 10 years. Many have speculated that they are part of a government program to alter climate, inoculate humans against certain pathogens, or even to toxify humans as part of a population reduction agenda. In conducting Google searches, one finds discussion, such as this example, of using sulphur dioxide as a jet fuel additive to be dispersed over the world during routine commercial flights. “I suggest that both the sulphur dioxide and the silica particles could be delivered into the stratosphere by dissolving an additive in jet aviation fuel,” writes engineer John Gorman, who has conducted experiments to test the feasibility of such a scenario. “We would want to burn fuel containing the additive specifically when the aircraft was cruising in the lower stratosphere,” he adds.
In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature. The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails.” KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA. KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that “short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems.” The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.
Indeed, barium oxide has cropped up repeatedly as a contaminant from suspected geoengineering experimentation. KSLA also put aerosolized-chemical testing in its historical context, citing a voluminous number of unclassified tests exposed in 1977 Senate hearings. The tests included experimenting with biochemical compounds on the public. KSLA reports that “239 populated areas were contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969.” One of the accepted truisms of scientific study is the fact that if scientists are proposing an idea, then those scientists with access to the bottomless pit of black-budget secret government funding are already doing it. It is highly likely that chemtrails are merely one manifestation of “geo-engineering” that is taking place without proper debate, notification or any form of legality, and with a callous disregard for the potential dangers to both our health and our environment.

This is a classic “chemtrails” exposition. It quotes a long stream of irrelevant references and debunked claims as if they were brand new.

One can only assume that Alex Jones weighed the strength of support for this MYTH and decided he would have some of it.


(Some preliminary chatting and preening has been removed)

Buzzard Says:
Not once does this article mention the fact that cloud cover causes a green house effect and increases global warming effect. this article makes it seam that governments are fighting real global warming, as if it is real. that is a farce. It also never mentions that our US government is also behind this crap, or how extensive a problem this is all over the US. Just imagine our Representative are using our own money to mess up our health and food supply.

Green Leader
The article is bogus, indeed. The problem is widespread among NATO countries. What they do is spray SiO2 to break-up hidrogen bonds in cloud water droplets and reflecting heat back to the soil, increasing global warming. The SiO2 helps create ‘false cirrus’ clouds. The Barium Titanate and Aluminum are for ‘other purposes’. Google Barium Titanate + chemtrails & find out for yourself. The website from Spain I referred just above explains how things are done.

JazzRoc Reply:
1. If silicon dioxide were to be sprayed through a turbofan, it would PLATE and ERODE the exhaust turbine in seconds, the engine would be destroyed in a couple of minutes. Why did they stop flights during the Icelandic ash incident earlier this year?
2. It wouldn’t “break-up hidrogen bonds” if it WERE to be sprayed. The SAND on every seashore in the world is made of it, and the SEA is FULL of hydrogen bonds. Don’t go near the beach, eh?
3. Aluminum is a constituent of CLAY and is found in SOIL. Mechanized agriculture makes DUST. Dust may become wind-borne. Surprisingly, raindrops may encapsulate it, and LO it can fall in your tray. Proof of aluminized chemtrails?
4. Barium titanate is a remarkable material in a multitude of ways, many of them yet to be discovered. But as a material to be in a trail left at NORMAL height, it would only “work” for a few days. The height at which the expense of doing it proves viable is 80,000 feet, which only fighters and the lightly-built U2 can reach. NO “tanker” gets to HALF that altitude.
5. If you really believe that some specialist chemtrail disinfo site in Spain knows something that two hundred thousand qualified atmospheric scientists don’t, then you need to visit a library and ask for help. At least, a library…

Green Leader
Government troll:
1) Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?
2) The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.
3) Clay is flake-like and has a high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). The aluminum dust is nano particulate. When they spray ham radio comms drop. That’s how we first found out we were being sprayed metal dust–the ham freaks spoke up.
4) The Barium and other nasty stuff is sprayed at lower altitudes. I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks–as if farting. The drones have NO numbers, markings, insignia whatsoever. I used to be a very strong man who could do farm work day in and day out. The detox I’ve gone through is painful but am recovering my health.
5) Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist.
6) I know how to treat people and dogs from this illness.
7) The NATO generals behind this will be charged, tried, sentenced and imprisoned for crimes against humanity. There’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Nothing. It’s Yahweh’s fight and he never loses.

JazzRoc Reply:
1) “Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?” – Is it an INVISIBLE spray, then? Then why say the trails laid by the aircraft are “chemtrails”? Surely, if they are INVISIBLE then you wouldn’t have noticed in the first place. And if they ARE visible then they ARE exhaust trails. It’s YOU that is confused here, not me.
2) “The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.” – “Nano” merely means VERY SMALL, or measurable in MICROMETERS. The size of a water molecule is 95 PICOMETERS, or at least a HUNDRED TIMES SMALLER. So you want to slice a potato with a battleship?
3) “When they spray ham radio comms drop” – but ham radio comms rise and fall with the passage of day and night, because they are bouncing off the Kennely-Heaviside Layer, which moves dynamically with rising and falling solar illumination. No “spraying” is needed.
4) “I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks” – A pity you didn’t video it. Do you know that no-one has managed this? Strange, isn’t it? Quite often, people who get older become less physically able. They’ve be known to die, as well, especially when they pass 70 years old.
5) “Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist” I couldn’t care less about your other delusions. Just the delusion that you know anything about science.
6 & 7 prove your delusion.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
JazzRoc is a disinfo agent and for your information the planes spray the stuff from sprayers attached to the bottom of the plane. It is not the exhaust. Furthermore there are lots of video of chemtrails being laid. IdIOT!

fallout4real Reply:
Dude, I can honestly smell the schill emanating from you. Why do waste your time here trying to convince people that what we know is wrong? If your so right why are here? We are just a bunch of crazies!! Why do photos exist of spray nozzles on the belly of these unmarked jets with chemicals pouring out? Why do the pilots of these planes refer to themselves as “human chemtrailer 1? You really need to “Look at the big picture” before you tell us how it is!

JazzRoc Reply:
Yes, you ARE a bunch of crazies. You are keen to slander people you don’t know without ANY evidential basis except your pseudoscience and the lies you tell each other.

You’re lying now, for I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.

Science is based on evidence. It is NOT based on “evidence” gleaned from listening to confidence tricksters like Carnicom which is designed merely to CONFIRM your anti-authoritarian predispositions.
I too am anti-authoritarian, but it didn’t stop me from pursuing a lifetime’s career in engineering.
You all exhibit a laziness to conduct proper research, and a fixed rigidty of mind which makes it very unlikely you will ever understand that talking about “chemtrails” gets you straight into

SCIENCE, and scientists will EJECT you vigorously as soon as you begin to spout PSEUDOSCIENCE.
They say that creationists don’t understand why atheists laugh at them. Well, the same thing exactly applies to “chemtrailers” with scientists and engineers laughing at them too.

fallout4real Reply:
Jazz you call me a liar yet with my crazy little paragraph, I can capture your attention with out writing a book or double think!! I am a small independent business owner and I don’t give a crap what you call me because I don’t depend on the system like you, a simple schill !!!! Wake up or shut up you liar!

FreedomLover Reply:
jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.
Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR. If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people. The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist. NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.
You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.

clockwise lives Reply:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Who is it you think I’m loyal to? I’m loyal to the truth.

fallout4real Reply:

JazzRoc Reply:
TIC: “Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.”
(Titters backstage)

larry Says:
Oil in gulf is raining tirds on yo head.

patrick11 Says:
OK, so chemtrails are the same thing as contrails? I thought they were different!

FreedomLover Reply:
They ARE hugely different. Contrails are just jet exhaust that freezes at high altitude then dissipates fairly quickly. CHEMTRAILS come from the specialized nozzles on wings and/or fuselage of a plane and are sprayed out NOT from the engines. This is a deliberate spraying from chemical tanks inside the aircraft. There are videos all over the web that show fairly close-up views of the spraying, and a couple of photos of the planes on the ground. Just google them – chemtrail planes.

JazzRoc Reply:
They can all be found DEBUNKED on the page entitled “‘Chemtrail’ Aircraft Photos”, here:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Gov. shill alert!

Your abuse doesn’t constitute a strong argument, does it?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
None of your science can debunk that we are being sprayed by military ops. If they were so harmless, they wouldn’t be secret. But logic doesn’t play in, now does it? Continue your disinfo campaign, we will never shut-up about chemtrails.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
How could contrails form from an aircraft flying below a Cumulus cloud, on a beautiful Summer’s day with blue sky and puffy Cumulus clouds? Why, at the end of the day was the entire sky a murky haze? Why did I experience sickness akin to chemical or metallic poisoning, shortly after observing these aircraft leaving trails that lasted all day? I never get sick, except for a cold or two, and especially in Summer. Say what you will, but I cannot come up with an answer to these questions except chemicals being dispersed in the atmosphere by aircraft.
Science is not transparent, a lot of things are being done that defy all moral grounds, and a lot of Scientists are on the payroll of big corporations and will “prove” anything they want the public to believe. I’m sorry, but science is no longer noble, it has become evil and without conscience. Proof: the Global Warming debacle. Pure unabashed hokum, and the idiots are still running around like chickens with their heads cut off going “Global Warming, Global Warming, Global Warming. Oh, I forgot Al Gore is a genius and invented the Internet. Hah-hah, there’s a great fellow who is standing up for “Science” and “Truth”, eh? Got any great quotes from this spokesmen? ( I could use a laff). Things are not all that rosy in the Laboratories, I’m afraid.

JazzRoc Reply:
Contrails can form aerodynamically over the wings of aircraft flying in somewhat warmer, lower and more humid conditions. They look rather different and are cut up by the invisible engine trails. Cumulus clouds normally have a cloudbase between three and fifteen thousand feet, and that UPPER limit is around the LOWER limit for aerodynamic contrails. It seems unlikely to me.
What seems MORE likely is that you mistook a LARGE airplane HIGH up for a SMALLER airplane LOWER down. This is a common mistake to make, as there are no other objects to reference against. To KNOW the true height of an overflying aircraft you need a rangefinder and sextant.
Persistent contrails spread as they fall. Quite often there will be several stratospheric layers each moving horizontally on different headings. This spreads the trail. When the spread trail “meets its doom” it will be at the altitude which has sufficient warmth to evaporate the ice back to water vapor. This will generally be level and flat, so all you will see from underneath is boring greyness.
GW is a rising thermometer. To deny it is the ultimate foolishness. Yes, folks, disregard your thermometers, it’s REALLY COOLING. This argument, of course, is a mere distraction from the plain fact that YOU SHOW AND DISCUSS NO EVIDENCE OF CHEMTRAILS. I’m talking REAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. If you feel such evidence unnecessary, then you need treatment, probably for APOPHENIA.

MontgomeryScott Says:
WOW! The ‘Y’ versus ‘X’ dicotomy is especially ‘active’ on THIS PARTICULAR WEB-POSTING!

PS: A way to slightly lighten up the point that is attempting on being made here.

soupofdefish Says:
Funny you all act like you all doubted this until same asshole tells you its so. I grew up next to a base and seen planes all my life. Contrails always faded out quickly. Then one day Around 1980 I noticed them staying longer. I mentioned this to my mom but got the usual shrug kids get. Been talking about it ever since. Then I found internet and seen that many others noticed. Didn’t feel so alone after that. I didn’t need some dick weed to tell me they are not natural. I was a dumb kid and could tell the difference. What is wrong with the rest of the people that they could not remember when contrails always faded away? The rest of you need some f—ing conviction!

FreedomLover Reply:
Don’t be too hard on the sheeple. I didn’t know about any of this 2 years ago. At first I didn’t want to believe it either. Somebody spraying me like a bug to kill me (slowly)? What normal person would want to wrap their mind around the truth that some jerk they didn’t even know wants them dead? It’s awfully mind-blowing. And extremely stressful to know there is no way to get to them to stop them. Try to get on one of the military facilities where these planes are based and you’ll get shot first, then if you’re still alive they will interrogate your arse,probably never seeing the outside of a detention facility ever again!

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Welcome to the club. Sometimes it makes more sense to bash yer head against the wall, than try to convince people as to what is happening, right in their faces. Anyways, good for you and your observations. We’ve got to keep on pushing, even if it seems futile. Try turning people on to the documentary “Aerosol Crimes” by Clifford Carnicom, it’s a real eye-opener.

Soupofdefish, FreedomLover, and Johnny Canuck: I’ve been around airports all my life. I saw my first persistent trail at age ten in 1954. I knew what it was even then. That’s the way it is when you are fascinated with aircraft, and learn to build and fly model ones. You might have grown up to study Science and become an aeronautical engineer as I did and actually MEASURED exactly what the output of a turbojet is. Then you would discover that the BRICK WALL you are forever bashing your heads against is actually a PERSONAL PROBLEM. The problem is that of only accepting statements that CONFIRM your prejudices. This is ENTIRELY OPPOSITE to the way Science must be directed in order for it to succeed. Your minds contain only pseudoscience. This will make you into a human lemming, apt to swarm and dive off cliffs when confronted by social pressures.

Tough. Get out of it if you wish to save your neck.

FreedomLover Reply:
Your overinflated ego is so huge I’m surprised you haven’t exploded yet. Get out there and blow your horn some more. You’re not loud enough yet. While you’re at it, blow some more smoke. You’re still visible. You want to see a jerk with personal problems, look in the mirror. I already know I’m a jerk, that’s why I needed and still need a Saviour. You haven’t found out yet. Pity.

JazzRoc Reply:
I reckon being alive gives everyone a personal problem, don’t you? Prepackaged solutions involving the superstitions of a nomadic tribe 4,000 years ago aren’t likely to solve the problems of the modern world, are they? You have been coddled in an industrialized age, and passively waiting for the chickens to come home to roost. Meanwhile you’re carrying out a terrorist attack upon the passenger air transport industry because you BELIEVE, without the slightest proof, that aircraft are poisoning the sky, when it is KNOWN (by air samplers everywhere) that air contaminants are entirely normal, and that the trails visible in the sky, in all their forms, have been known and understood since they were first observed in 1921. This manifestation of your uneducated state strikes at the social cohesion of our society. You ARE the “dark forces” that your “Revelations” predicts.

And you are a very intelligent black ops disinfo agent. The proof is all around yet you deny it. I’m anything but passive. I have no intention of denying anyone air transport. This world as we know it, is coming to an end. You yourself don’t deny that the air is polluted, and you also deny the source(s) of the pollution. Yes, your horn is loud enough now, you satanic lying freak.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
RIGHT ON sodf! When in doubt use your own logic!

I wouldn’t know. I’m not in doubt, and YOU are NOT logical.

Texas IdentityCrisis
Oh, you mean you are not in doubt that chemtrails are harmless contrails and you can’t recognize any logic from me? I’m trying to tell ya, lay off the flouride, the GMO, the vaccines, stay outta the chemtrails…..it’s really hard to think on that stuff.

JazzRoc Reply:
I am in no doubt whatsoever that ALL the trails you see in the sky are HARMLESS.
Fluoride is a soluble halogen salt which is EASILY eliminated by the human body if it meets a SMALL excess. The body REQUIRES trace amounts of it.
Genetic modifications are in general NO DIFFERENT from NATURAL MUTATIONS, except that they are DIRECTED. Natural mutations can be “dangerous” too. I share with you anxiety about some mutational possibilities. I wouldn’t want a world full of TRIFFIDS any more than you. I don’t eat GM food.
Vaccines aren’t “risk-free”, any more than cycling is. But they offer a world without epidemics, which is like offering a world without war. Take the opportunity (accept them), or not, where you increase your own risk od disease considerably, and increase everyone else’s risk to a certain extent. This latter position is IMMORAL.
I live on Tenerife in the Canary Islands in the sub-tropical Atlantic Ocean. Virtually no overflights…

FreedomLover Reply:
No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.
I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.
The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.

This is what happens when Americans repeatedly elect neotards who believe they are smart enough to think for the rest of us but who in reality possess the cognitive powers of a stone.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
This is also what happens when you let the Military Industrial Complex do whatever it wants.

JazzRoc Reply:
It didn’t want to dumb YOU down, but here you are…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Oh, you speak for the MIC?

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course not. I was involved politically in the early seventies when the neocons dismantled further education in Britain – being a teacher at that time.

kingkurtis Says:
i sold cars in 2000 in Washington st. (on the coast, Mount Vernon)…in car sales, there are periods of standing and waiting, outside, with many sales staff. I noticed the criss cross lines of what i thought was vapor. What was compelling was that the lines, widened out, and changed what was a sunny warm day, into a totally cloudy day. The individual spray lines, would just widen out and join with the other expanding lines….and you could see the definition of the edges of the now puffy trails. you could actually see the overall sky picture if you will was a textured pattern like a huge quilt. Like a blanket whose pattern is obvious. The people I worked with were as stunned as i was. A few days certain planes actually turned in huge arcs, and went back to where they came from. Leaving a circle cloud….no kidding…Having just gotten internet in ‘99, i did some clicking and yes this is real. Plane height is not the deal either, if you can count the engines, it aint 30000 feet. Human eye cant discern a plane at 5 miles.3 yes. At least better. Still have spraying here. This summer, it hasnt reached 75 yet. Not since last September….my 2 cents

JazzRoc Says:
“Amateur” people without ANY understanding of how to conduct science have coined a whole new range of terms and created a pseudoscience which has packed the WEB so densely that it has become almost impossible to find REAL SCIENCE in it.
People trying to distinguish the TRUTH through this fog of innocent MYTH and malevolent DISINFORMATION have this task to do:
Use the EXCLUDE WORDS function to exclude the following words:
Scientists will NEVER use the above words in their experimental reports.
Then search for:
“paper aviation saturated atmosphere contrails”
The last time I looked, this search got 645 scientific research papers.
Any one of them will show the depths of ignorance plumbed by “chemtrails”.
The whole concept of “chemtrils” is a worthless and meaningless FIFTH COLUMN, a powerful distraction from solving the problems of respiratory disease, agriculture and industrialization, global warming, global dimming, TRUE conspiracies (whatever they may be), and social cohesion.
“Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS, sometimes unwitting, sometimes not. It’s about time we all dispelled this product of ignorance and fear

FreedomLover Reply:
Wow, how deluded can you get? Peer review is just a bunch of like-minded paid assassins slapping each other on the back. I’m sure there are good scientists out there, but just like any other leadership-related career, if you’re not willing to work with the globalists and keep your mouth shut about the real agendas, you end up dead. Exclude all the conspiracies the govt has against us and you get purely the rhetoric and propaganda.

JazzRoc Reply:
We are all capable of self-delusion. All you have to be is unaware.
In your case you are unaware that the Earth has been busy contaminating and decontaminating itself for aeons, and that ALL insoluble material in the atmosphere ends up as sediment on the ocean floor, and all the soluble material will dissolve in the sea.
Exclude Man from this and the Earth wouldn’t notice at all.
You are unaware that anybody with science training can spot you at once as a person who merely researches to prove a point you already believe. Because of YOUR belief system there is NO WAY you can ever allow yourself to change your mind. Your mind, in a sense, is ALREADY BROKEN, and any conclusions you come to will be increasingly worthless over time.
Peer review is conducted anonymously or not at all.
The very fact that you adhere to the belief that engine trails contain metals (or biological material) CONFIRMS your lack of reasoning ability, for if that were to be true, the the engine trail GAP would be bright green or brilliant pink/white, the engine would be destroyed in seconds, and NO biologicals withstand 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit.
So you make unsubstantiated and impossible claims, call me deluded, and infer that I’m deluded?
Though never having met a “globalist”, I’m sure I’d prefer it to meeting you with your mindless pseudoscience and baseless slander…

FreedomLover Reply:
For your information, the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet. I didn’t know any of this prior to 18 months ago, but reading about it and seeing it happen right before my eyes, putting the pieces together (which you have miserably failed to do or you are a disinfo agent), is what is known as “waking up”. I never believed that biologicals and these metallic salts come from fuel exhaust and never SAID that, but are sprayed from tanks inside the planes, not coming in contact with the jet fuel. I stated so in one of my earlier posts. So you really wanted to attack me without bothering to read what I wrote. You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people, when they have been QUOTED saying they want 90% of the population gone? THAT is what makes you a disinfo agent. Ignoring all evidence presented except what promotes YOUR theory. Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

JazzRoc Reply:
“the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet”
Yes it does. There are at least 11,500 active volcanoes working day and night. So you’re WRONG.
“are sprayed from tanks inside the planes” – INTO WHERE? There are no switches, pipes, or tanks that fit that description. The trails laid as recorded by YT videos are all coming from the engines of passenger jets in the stratosphere. The extraordinary notion that the hundreds of thousands of aircraft half had some sort of “black” retrofit needs some EXTRAORDINARY PROOF, of which you supply NONE.
“You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people”
NO. I want to exclude the words of liars and mythmakers from the thermodynamics that occurs when aircraft fly in the stratosphere. While you make up lies about this you must be excluded. Strangely enough, if you follow my recommendations you DO actually find words written by ordinary non-fraudulent and non-mendacious scientists. Science is successful because it includes NO LIES about the natural world. My theory IS that of atmospheric science. I can produce a long list of chemtrail FRAUD. It’s the only thing you people cling to.  “Truthseekers”? What an irony….

Texas IdentityCrisis
I guess JazzRoc never heard of Climategate, which is evident by his utter worship and blind eye for scientists.
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemrl dot htm
If it were up to me, you’d be tied to a chair under the chemtrails everyday. Then we could do experiments on YOU, to see if there are any unhealthy results of the constant exposure.

Green Leader Reply:
I would make him eat chemtrail-contaminated iguana meat breakfast, lunch & dinner for an extended period of time. But then, he might claim he got sick because iguana meat is forbidden by the Torah.

JazzRoc Reply:
Hey, funny! Nothing to do with the topic, though. More to do with you than me, I think…

Texas IdentityCrisis
I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.

Bumper Sticker Says:
Chemtrails are like pest spray, and we’re the pests!

inalienable rights Says:
To the commentators who claim that chemtrails have existed since WWII and are not new to our skies: I’ve flown the USA since the early 1950s and at no time did we ever see chemtrails such as we see now. Starting in the 1990s there has been a major, significant, and alarming change. There is absolutely NO resemblance to current chemtrails compared to the ‘con’ trails of pre-1990s. If commentators claim that chemtrails existed since WWII, they can only mean that there was a sporatic testing done in those years that was not part of the USA or world skies. To say that today’s chemtrail world crisis has existed previously is in my opinion, a total lie or misrepresentation. All accurate observers since the 1940s would agree with this opinion.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Thank you for your info. It’s disheartening knowing this stuff is real, and having people look at you like you are a Looney Tune.

JazzRoc Reply:
Well, I’ve seen the videos of film shot on the 1000-bomber raids which shows the skies turning white with persistent spreading contrails. For about fifteen years there was a bit of a lull in air travel due to the expenses involved bucketing about the troposphere at 250 mph. Then pressurized transport at 550 mph in the stratosphere became possible, and air travel increased by fifty times. All accurate observers agree that persistent contrails (dubbed “chemtrails” by some) have existed ever since they were first created in, er, 1921.

I gotta say, I just feel better lately that I havent seen them for a while, I mean, more at peace around the phenom, I took pics, made vids, posted links, joined forums, commented here, and over all, Im kinda tired of it, It stresses Me out, I just came to the conclusion that the planes are leaving long lingering jet trails of Sh8T in the sky, period, Its just that simple, and its depressing and dissapointing and MUST affect the Planet, or WILL eventually, in a very BAD way, I dont care whether its tanker planes or CIA Evergreen airlines or global geoengineering, we ALL see it, all over the sky and theres NO debate on that! If you run your car in a closed garage, it will kill you..RIGHT? so whats the difference? give it some time, a few years, and it will be common knowledge that mankind done F*cked up w/ the planes, the oil, the food, the water, the meds, the vaccines, the wars, the economy, the cloning, the chemicals and toxins in everything, just, be aware of it all man, thats all..

JazzRoc Says:
Those trails are very nearly pure ice – so pure they could probably out-compete your tapwater in purity.
The combusted kerosine and air deep in the heart of the multi-spool turbofan become a mix of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, steam, and trace compounds at a temperature of 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit. This mix is transparent at that temperature, and you see a GAP before the trail forms. That gap represents the time it takes to COOL to MINUS 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
The STEAM part resolves to microscopic droplets of supercooled water nucleated around trace compound molecules, which freeze over a second or so to ice. However, this isn’t happening in a vacuum, but in a cold low-pressure mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor, the atmosphere of the stratosphere.
Water seems simple at first glance, but it has the unusual properties of supercooling, superheating, and supersaturation.
Supersaturation is the property that water has of dissolving in excess as vapor into a TOTALLY CLEAN atmosphere. The addition of ANY FINE PARTICLES into a volume of air in such a cold and supersaturated state will cause INSTANT SNOW.
As these particles of SNOW fall through this supersaturated layer of the stratosphere, they will PUT ON WEIGHT BY A FACTOR OF TEN THOUSAND. THAT is why you see trails. THAT is why I’m telling you it’s purer than your tapwater.
DO the math. Of course, you still have the unalienable right to crash, if you wish.

FreedomLover Reply:
Troll alert.

JazzRoc Reply:
Your lying makes you the troll.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Mind the gap! You know, the one between your ears!

JazzRoc Reply:
Sorry, it’s all filled in with an understanding of atmospheric science and turbofan thermodynamics, cosmology, design in the aviation and manufacturing industries, music, and art.

FreedomLover Reply:
Your “gap” is filled with BS globalist propaganda. Bet your eyes are brown.

JazzRoc Reply:
Hazel. Gone over to grey.
As an anarchist for over forty years, “globalist propoganda” isn’t of much interest to me, thanks.
It might be nice to have only one govt. There again. it might not. It would depend on its transparency and accessibility. Not having “national interests” to address, there would be NO NEED for secrecy, would there? Except for business secrets.
Freedom is an abstract concept. The practical reality of freedom is that it is the measure of both your ability to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and REMAIN VIGILANT. If you fall down with either of these you shall not be free.

You have a problem with both…
FREEDOM and RESPONSIBILITY are mutually-exclusive. THAT is what makes freedom an abstraction.
You may LOVE it, but you CAN’T have it…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Then drink it moron. You’ll never convince anyone here, we don’t drink the tap.

Here in Southwestern Washington, I wonder how much spraying is happening when overcast? Makes me want to take cover when seeing mass chemtrail spraying, followed by clouds and rain. So, how many of ya all have your nuke/chemical survival kits?

JazzRoc Reply:
It will still be happening – even when you don’t see it.
Conditions in the stratosphere are STABLE and rarely affected by the troposphere (which you experience).
Ice will come of solution in the atmosphere and deposit itself upon the trail WHENEVER the layer an airplane flies through a stratospheric layer which happens to be SATURATED with water vapor.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Right, that’s why these poison planes fly back and forth, round and round, in front of the sun and moon. Tell it to your dumbed down granny.

JazzRoc Reply:
There aren’t any “poison planes” – just passenger planes.
There are 87,000 DAILY overflights of the US. That’s EVERY DAY.
You see them when you see their trails. You almost never see them otherwise.
You assume, when there are no trails, that there are NO planes. FAIL.
You also assume that the same plane turned round to spray YOU again. FAIL.
You seem as intelligent as my cat. Sorry, Claws.

semicollegiate Says:
It could be that the new fuel efficient engines put out more clean water and that is the reason for bigger streaks. It could be that the planes are mapping out the exact top of the troposphere for future use. They want to know where to place a given technology to get a specific effect.

JazzRoc Reply:
The new fuel efficient engines ARE marginally more efficient, but that isn’t the point.
They are TEN TIMES larger than the engines in the Boeing 707s that began the fifty-fold expansion of air travel, and burn TEN TIMES more fuel to make a trail TEN TIMES bigger than they were in the fifties.
The troposphere is an oblate spheroid of air which swivels its axis wrt the earth from summer to winter. It is turbulent, always in motion, and is mapped daily by satellite-borne scientific instruments.
This has been happening since the eighties.
Knowing the temporary topology of the tropopause has no utility for geoengineering because any materials would be rainwashed to the sea the next time a cumulonimbus anvil swept by.
The troposphere is DYNAMIC and TURBULENT.

semicollegiate Reply:
Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.
The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting expirience in maintianing flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever. Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.

JazzRoc Reply:
“Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.”
Combustion efficiency was the first thing I studied as an undergraduate. This WASN’T “book-learning”, by-the-way, it was “hands-on” a whole variety of internal and external combustion engines, including turbojets. The achievement of near-perfect combustion in a flame tube was well-understood by the Germans and the British by 1940.
No, the “increase in efficiency” of modern turbofans is achieved by ducting and convecting as much heat as possible to the annular ring of compressed air BEHIND THE FAN. This RAISES PRESSURE, and therefore ADDS to the THRUST already contributed by the COMBUSTION PART OF THE MOTOR. Additionally, the cylinder of cooler air around the hotter air reduces the noise which the process makes.
Pressures and temperatures inside these engines are INTENSE: ALL the components that follow combustion are made from very high-grade steel alloys, and are hollow and have cold air passing through them, otherwise they’d be GONE…
The real reason they make bigger trails is that they are BIGGER ENGINES.
“The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting experience in maintaining flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever.”
A radar system will “see” ANY conductive material which has a cross-sectional length which is SIMILAR to the wavelength of the signal that the radar set transmits.  Satellites such as GOES already have laser equipment which can MEASURE the size of ice crystals in contrails or cirrus. Also LIDAR is used from ground stations for the same purpose. You don’t have to FLY to collect such data.
http ://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
Also, all long/medium distance large aircraft are directed by ATC to fly at a specific height in the stratosphere. They are NOT directed through bumpy and low-visibility parts of the troposphere, where they might meet transponderless VFR light aircraft, except of course for take-off and landing. “Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.” Oh, yes!
http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU6M5hAe-TU

Interesting info thanks. It stands to reason that engines are bigger because classes of planes which had 4 engines in the past now typically have 2 engines. I didn’t know that this was from a 10 fold increase in power. Unstated but in mind by me, my mistake, was that more efficient engines have cleaner, simpler, purer exhaust. Impurities usually cause agglutinization and therefore cleaner exhaust leaves more individual particles. More particles means larger volume, larger surface area, and bigger trails.
I think the chemtrail assertion is not proven but is possible. Your comment, the fact about Arkansas being a Barium mining area, thanks again, is something I would have noticed before I made a final judgment about it.

At the Prison Planet Forum, from which I’ve been banned, I suggested taking samples at the surface of the soil and comparing them to samples taken deeper in the groung. If the Barium was from spraying it would have a higher concentration on the surface. That still would NOT prove spraying because man puts water everywhere and water can have Ba.
In the second point the paper states “It is based upon the fortuitous occurrence of an unusual set of essentially parallel contrails”. Some of the contrails that make true believers are single contrails that over the course of hours spread out to cover 20 to 30 % of a clear sky with a dubiously off-white, with a hint of prismatic spectrum, slimy polymer looking cloud.
I have had a few flying lessons in very old Cessenas and I wondered if there is a design of private aiplane in which the pilot could visually inspect all of the load bearing metal. Everytime we did climbing stalls I worried about it.
I bet the formulae in that vortex video are complex functions of god-awful integrals.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
They want to own the world through weather, think about it, he who can control the weather can rule the world! Plus, they can make people sick and kill them slowly, while making millions off their sickness. EUGENICS and WAR is what this is all about!

JazzRoc Reply:
Nobody can control the weather. To make it do what you want, you’d HAVE to relinquish control elsewhere. You need to understand the size of the Earth. (CLUE: its surface area is FIFTY times greater than that of the United States.)
In the US, OVEREATING “makes people sick and kills them slowly”. Supersize YOU.
Educated people don’t discuss “eugenics” anymore since they understand genetics and evolution, and KNOW that fascist “master race” manipulation will NEVER WORK unless you resort to COMPLETE EXTINCTION. This latter is possibly only achievable through a massive nuclear spasm or an asteroid strike.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
For a scientist, you are pretty naive.

JazzRoc Reply:
For a non-scientist, you are worse than the usual.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
To JazzRockforBrains – http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_control

semicollegiate Reply:
I saw a weather effect in early july 2006, I think it was the 10th. After the 4th anyway. Heading north on I-5 in Northern California there was an unusual storm. Clear sky above and to the east. On the west from the southern horizon to the northern horizon was a solid cloud bank. Looked like fog, like one big cloud, like a rolled tarp, but it was 5000 to 10000 feet up. Right in the middle on the front easternmost edge, was a single cumulonimbus cloud shaped like the forcastle of a sailing ship without the spar. “Laying” on top of that were 15 or so parallel and evenly spaced contrails whose ends formed a circle. Like a webber bbq grill without the ring around edge laying on the front of a 10 foot long model of a 17th century sailing ship. First thing that came to mind for me was HAARP but I suppose formation flying could have caused the same arrangement.
That particular storm caused forest fires throughout northern california, summoned fire brigades from all over the west, and burned until the first rain in October. Nobody else at the couple truckstops I was at saw it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Keep watching, what JazzRoc doesn’t get, is the best scientists are the ones who observe.

semicollegiate Reply:
They are above the law. Or maybe the law is tailor made for them. They don’t need us to grow food or beat up their neighbors anymore.

American Truth Says:
Anyone having breathing problems! I am and also lost my voice VCD

Snow Reply:
I am and for some reason, I’m getting thirsty.

Marc Says:
Here in Frankfurt Rhein Main region (Germany) has been covered by chem trails daily for many years.

JazzRoc Says:
This is a quote from a scientific paper entitled “ON THE POSSIBILITY OF WEATHER MODIFICATION BY AIRCRAFT CONTRAILS”:
“It is then evident that, whenever and wherever persistent contrails are being produced, the airlines are conducting a seeding operation in which each passing aircraft deposits nuclei in numbers at least comparable to a ground-based seeding attempt. The coverage is global in extent, and while random in the sense that airline flights are not scheduled with weather modification in mind, it is not really random with respect to meteorological conditions.”

“Fine,” you might say, “this is EXACTLY what we’re talking about.”
But when was this written?

Click to access rescu…..0-0745.pdf

So what does the page heading “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” by Paul Joseph Watson for Prison Planet.com, Friday, July 2, 2010 REALLY MEAN?
Has it JUST suddenly discovered this 1970 science paper? Was this paper secret?
No. The paper wasn’t secret. Scientists don’t work in secrecy, but TRANSPARENTLY, with both friends and enemies able to read every word they write. They did so then, and they do so now.
This journalist, and Prison Planet also, were slipshod in their work and never got ANYWHERE NEAR where the truth lies. I don’t think they believe in real research at all. They only wish to promote their current agenda.
If you REALLY wish to discover the real truth then follow the procedures laid out in my first comment here. If you do, you will rediscover the link I mention here.
For those of you who do not wish to see this, well find something else to do. I think even less of you than you of me, believe me. Don’t ask me to go into details.

Dunagan Says:
Sulfur is possibly one of the chemicals eroding the ozone layer, by acting as a catalyst for halides. Once you get rid of that you create an endless dependency on the chem-trailing industry to block UV artificially. Sulfur is considered bad enough that reusable washable scrubbers are require in Australia on diesel vehicles. Synthetic diesel is another solution. The practice in North-America was to add metal nanoparticles to diesel fuel to hide the pollution and make it invisible. It proved to be disastrous to the environment however. Just be warned about Mad Scientists — they will do things that are absolutely wrong at times. The largest chem-trail contractor I believe is the CIA company Evergreen. So the people that have in the past sprayed the population with poisonous chemicals, using people as experimental lab rats, are in behinds this madness. Would you rather trust nature or the CIA to decide what you breath. God give us a break from the insanity.

Green Leader Reply:
Yahweh has taken this matter personal. Watch what will happen to those responsible – you WILL laugh!

JazzRoc Reply:
I’m laughing now.
300,000,000 tons of sulfur dioxide blew into the stratosphere when Tambora erupted.
What happened as a consequence? The Earth cooled by a couple of degrees for a couple of years…
It is NOT POSSIBLE to “get rid of” the ozone layer. Ozone is made CONTINUALLY by the absorption of the energy of SUNSHINE by molecules of OXYGEN.
The season why stratospheric temperature increases with altitude is BECAUSE the by-product of this energy exchange is an INCREASE in thermal energy. The UV wavelengths responsible are absorbed by the TOP of the atmosphere first, and are GONE by the time they have reached as far down as the tropopause. As for the “CIA deciding” what you breathe – I just KNOW you are innumerate with respect to the size of the Earth. The area of the United States is ONE FIFTIETH the area of the Earth.
Fear management is best achieved by EDUCATION. You should try it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
You should stop listening to the lies of secret military ops disinfo campaign and the nefarious scientist who help create it. Every wonder why so many scientist die every year? All one needs is logic to figure things out. I knew something was up just through observation and having been around before this spray campaign went full on. Scientists tried to convince us of global warming, they destroyed real evidence which didn’t agree. Fortunately infowarriors are educated and observant.

JazzRoc Reply:
Their lies or YOUR lies – interest me not at all. You aren’t at all aware of how tramelled your mind is, and you’ve already spent FAR too much time accepting ideas which CONFIRM your preconceptions, and rejecting everything that doesn’t fit. In effect, you have damaged your mind. Don’t give it a thought. I don’t.

FreedomLover Reply:

RBBB Says:
The newscast was from a t.v. station in Louisiana. The pics at the chemtrails section of my website: reverendbillybobbuck.com/aapip are from Louisiana. All taken by me. Be sure to pick up the 3 songs for download, gratis, in the music section. Take it easy.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Hey Truth Brings Freedom, The chemtrails have stopped over Central Texas for about the last six weeks. If the chemtrails were only ordinary jet exhaust, how do you explain their recent vanishing? This is when my friends and family finally got it. I asked them why they didn’t see any chemtrails recently? I asked them if JET TRAVEL had suddenly ceased during the past month and a half? Well, what happened, have all the jets been grounded? Have people stopped flying? I don’t know why they’ve stopped, but I am glad they are not spraying us here. Easy way to wake people up, I talk to my sons so that others can here us at soccer games or at the park. I’ll say “Wow, why no lines in the sky, nobody flying today”

truthbringsfreedom Reply:
Between flightpath changes (they do change you know) and weather changes, contrails have been that sporadic for my entire life. Not trying to prove you wrong, just relating my personal experience. I can go for days without seeing one jet in the sky, and then see 7 in one day. Same goes for contrails behind the jets. One thing is for certain… long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that. If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. And by the way… doesn’t Bush live in Texas along with a bunch of other globalist elites? Do you really think he would be poisoning the air he breathes every day. Think. Obviously they take the fluoride out of their water. But do you really think he gets alerts for when they’re spraying and goes into a special room with its own oxygen generator and doesn’t go outside for 3 days?

dead_squirrel Reply:
Bush bought real estate properties in Latin America, so it would be foolish not to think bush would not travel in there without your knowledge (why not help the extermination of a nation that hates him and fly constantly?). Latin America doesn’t get as much chemtrails as other countries because the fraudsters consider it a piece a cake compared to US and it is where many of these small people make their big pharma investments. -squirley

GoodShootinTex Reply:
truth?brings freedom, what do you mean flightpath changes, that is laughable and a complete fraud to even pretend that flights are not taking place over central texas with our civil and military tansportation hubs. Are you ignorant or a troll. Flights take place over my house EVERY day of the year, all year, year in and year out. If they are taking place, and weather patterns are fairly stable (especially in the upper atmosphere) why have the chemtrails stopped? FACT: Chemtrails have stopped for about the last six weeks FACT: Flights have continued
… How much does the NWO pay you to troll?

Hey GoodShootinTex, Have you ever seen it go for 6 weeks without raining? I have. That is weather related. There can be perfectly legitimate reasons that contrails are not occurring for 6 weeks. I’m not ignorant or a troll. I’m *not* trying to disprove chemtrailing. I’m trying to get you and inforwars to admit truth as part of getting to the bottom of all this. Let’s start with one truth, one piece of common ground we can agree on. There is at least one thing for certain, given the history of aviation photos available to the public. Long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that? Well, can you? If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. The truth is out there, but instead you see “trolls” and “ignorant people” on the “NWO payroll” if they acknowledge it. You’re a nutcase dude.
Also, dead_squirrel, you have no proof whatsoever that Bush leaves TX when they spray. You’re just making stuff up to provide evidence for your conspiracy. Sorry, your imagination is not what I consider “best evidence.” Also, there are more elitist globalists in TX than just Bush. Let me guess, they all fly to Bush’s property together, right?
Also, Wash. D.C. is full of globalists. However, there are contrails all over the skys of DC and VA. and MD, where they all live. So according to you, these people are knowingly poisoning themselves. Does that make any sense to you? Then why do you want me to believe it?

JazzRoc Reply:
A jet exhaust turns into a trail when the increased humidity of the air it has just flown through approaches saturation.
Quite often as the trail expands, the humidty drops below critical and then the trail appears to vanish.
I say “appears to” because, of course, the COLUMN of increased water vapor concentration remains, but is no longer visible.
I can show you vids of long-lasting contrails from 1943, and eyewitness accounts as well.
Whatever the ex-president does (he’s probably conspiring somewhere right now). I’m sure he doesn’t waste his time conforming to the straightjacket of an ignorant myth.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Plus, watch the sides of the sky, they are still spraying! I have noticed a reduced spraying in the past few weeks in E. TX. Beautiful skies and clouds like I haven’t seen in a loooong time.
But they haven’t stopped completely. But good idea pointing out that flights are still as normal, but the chemtrails aren’t

dead_squirrel Says:
SO they wanna keep the atmosphere cooler? I say we make it hotter despite the obvious global warming phenom… If all these chemicals go down it’s ’cause they are heavier than the air below. If that’s so, then the air below them, if hotter, will cause the particles to glide down towards the cooler air streams. Hot air goes up, cooler air goes wherever the wind blows.
I’m gonna try installing mirrors flat on the ground on my neighborhood, every one else may copy this in order to dispel these hot particles to areas other than your home. I can’t guarantee they’ll work for nightime spraying though. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
You will have to modify your theory, because although the temperature gets COLDER as you climb until it gets as cold as MINUS ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DEGREES FAHRENHEIT at the tropopause (25,000 feet), then after that the temperature RISES.
The stratosphere (where long-distance aircraft operate) is STABLE and layered BECAUSE its temperature rises with altitude.
Trails made at 35,000 feet have TWO MILES to fall downwards into progressively-cooling air, and this is what they do.
Particles remaining in a gas cannot have a temperature different from the gas.
In the case of engine exhausts, the gas molecules (of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and superheated steam) take about an EIGHTH of a second to cool from 1,300 degrees C to -40 degrees C.
That’s pretty fast…

dead_squirrel Reply:
My guess is that the particles fall at night then. So you’re right, the theory needs revision. But at night there is a need to know where the highest concentration of particles are. A laser visible at night and dawn using Raleigh scattering should be a chemtrail hunter’s tool. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
A GOES satellite is in orbit doing just that. Ground stations using LIDAR are also used.

Click to access sa…..MC2006.pdf

Of course, these scientists (hundreds of them using the world’s finest instrumentation) appear to know nothing, for they find that trails are made of ICE – with tiny NON-METALLIC impurities.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just as in the “global warming” hoax, which proof was leaked (thank you hackers), much of technology and its “documented” results has been hidden from what the NWO calls “sheeple”.
The proof was leaked that the so-called scientists cooked the books to make global warming look real, when it is only a scam to push the cap & trade tax through. The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water. Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people. Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.

Texas IdentityCrisis
Check out chemtrail busters, they do exactly what you are describing.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Earlier this spring when we were still getting sprayed, I would walk through the lawn and my feet would be covered with a fine grained reddish dust. I would have to wash my feet and legs with the hose. Now that they have stopped spraying us, I don’t have to wash that cr@p off my feet anymore. I should have gotten a sample and let Texas A&M tell me what was in it. If it starts again, I will find out. When the Revolution occurs, the people who ordered this upon us should be strung and hung. Buy guns, ammo, food, and water purification tools. See You at the Riots!

crazycanuck Says:
I read recently that sperm whales have high amounts of heavy metals in their blubbler, particularly aluminum and cadmium which are in chemtrails. Aluminum is in treated water supply so could be coming from both chemtrails and water effluent. Not a great deal of pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply.

Insanity Says:
Poison, I can believe, like in Moonraker, kill us all off when they’ve got the cleanup solution stashed away. I can also picture them triggering an ice age, or even just cooling off the planet a bit to contract agricultural activity and starving off billions of people. I also see them trying to position themselves for an artificial fresh water shortage. Bottom line, these people are sick, twisted and you are all fools for paying anything into their system. Why can’t you stop shopping at Walmart, buying new cars, and why don’t you buy a lathe or a set of tools or something instead of a worthless plasma screen? Get building your own local system and they can’t terrorize you anymore with theirs.

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t believe they have the time for much in that direction. Nor do they have the capability.
The real damage “they” are doing to the US is in allowing groundwater contamination and destroying field topsoil by plowing. With reduced microclimate wind protection (they’ve chopped down the trees) the topsoil just BLOWS AWAY.
But I’m just talking about manufacturing administrators, local politians, and farmers here…
Who EXACTLY do you mean by “they”?

Highlanderess Says:
All those side effects huh? Well, maybe that explains the behaviors of all the nutcases I have to speak with on a daily bases on my call center job.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Notice on heavy chemtrail days how people seem stressed to the nines.

Green Leader Reply:
1) dogs desperately try to get indoors.
2) birds don’t fly around nor sing
3) meteorologists on TV look scared
4) surviving remaining bees stay in the hive
5) there are no rainbows
6) cumulus clouds dissapear and false cirrus appear
7) Green Leader curses the uncircumsized infidels destroying nature

JazzRoc Reply:
That’s apophenia. You are looking for signs to CONFIRM your preconceptions. That will REALLY ruin your (or someone else’s) existence one day. It’s the same sort of behavior which led to the torturing and killing of old single women as “witches”. The “test” was to “duck” them in the local pond. If they came up drowned, they were INNOCENT (but went to Heaven, obviously). If they came up alive, they were GUILTY, and were burnt at the stake. NICE.
Any animal with body fat will accumulate heavy metals there. Do you have fat? You’re doing it too. Heavy metals are part of the earth, as is Life itself. You will find them in soil. Plants you eat grow in that. Do the metals go straight through them to you? No. Not exactly. The plant wil sequester and excrete the metals. Why? Because aeons ago plants that didn’t, died.
You are no different from the plants. You also sequester and excrete heavy metals. You and the plants are both in a state of dynamic equilibrium, and can (and do) take a certain amount of contamination in your stride. Aluminum IS used to DEFLOCCULATE the water supply. It does this job as an INSOLUBLE compound which DOES NOT go on to contaminate the supply.
So WHY would there be “pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply” when “chemtrails” are a MYTH, and there’s NO “aluminization”?

Texas IdentityCrisis
I guess increased cancer, Alzheimer’s and asthma, etc., have nothing to do with anything. Just it’s in the earth and the earth is causing all these increases in disease despite your beloved scientists/science. I guess volcanoes are causing these increases YA SCIENCE EXPERIMENT FREAK!

JazzRoc Reply:
Everything ALWAYS has SOMETHING to to with anything. Cancers form from irritation and genetic predisposition. Alzheimer’s is caused by dietary problems and genetic predisposition. Asthma is an allergic reaction to do with the genetic predisposition of the immune system and exposure to pollens, dusts, and diesel particulates. Your identity crisis follows from your inadequacy in maths and science and a certain gullibility.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, everything is due to genetics. That’s science for ya! Get real douche.

JazzRoc Reply:
NO. Everything is due to COMBINATIONS of these inputs with genetics. The inputs are variables. The genetics may respond in multitudinous ways to such variables. Of course, I forget, you’re intellectually-challenged. Tip: science is about measurement, calculation, and prediction. That’s REAL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, science it too hard for us dummies to understand. :/

Over the past month I have been watching the skies with my binoculars cause that’s all I’ve got. I live about 30 miles from Travis airforce base. Its hard to track these planes but there is a lot of what I call spraying going on. They will spray so much that there will be a haze in the sky as if there was a fire. I’m no scientist but something isnt right here and everyday people don’t even notice it. Good luck

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Use your eyes, ears, and all other senses, logic. Yeah man, there is something amiss. Get that s—e on video!

One thing I don’t get is if the water crystallizes at 25000 ft at minus 30c then why isn’t there trails at night?

JazzRoc Reply:
There are.

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM
http ://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a778783829~db=all
“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
There are, they love to spray when nobody’s watching. Watch when there’s a full moon, you’ll see ‘em flying all around it trying to block it.

JazzRoc Reply:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Well I don’t need a scientific report to determine what my eyes can see.

JazzRoc Reply:
You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!

Snow Says:
Chemtrails are being sprayed here today as we speak. Having a bit of a breathing problem and I’m getting thirstier.

djjasonxxx Says:

Highlanderess Says:
We are destroying ourselves with chemtrails, big pharma, vaccinations, car exhausts and the crap they’re putting in our foods to make them addicting….just to name a few.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the leader article: “The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
The above statement is TRUE, but the way you interpret this sentence is NOT.
“Forcing” here is a technical term talking about the NATURAL physics that takes place whether Man exists or NOT. It does NOT mean anything to do with Mankind FORCING these changes,
The planes used to fly through the lower atmosphere have devices to PULL IN air to analyze, and NOT to PUSH OUT air to contaminate.
It is TYPICAL in sites like this to push ignorance and nisunderstanding as far as possible, and to hide the truth.
“The other 10% is SCIENCE” – JAZZROC

duck Says:
Everyone should record video of any plane spraying a chemtrail with the date and time documented on the video. Then take the video to the FAA and file a FOIA request to find out who owns the plane and, thereofore, who is responsible for the chemtrail. We can then go after the owner of the plane with a lawsuit to try to open this can of worms and make them face the music.

JazzRoc Says:
Texas IdentityCrisis: “To JazzRoc – so you are suggesting this is not a secretive military op?”
It’s not ANY SORT of op. It’s just what happens when internal combustion engines fly through the stratosphere. It’s produced by burning hydrocarbon fuels. It’s WATER.
Not only that, but only a ten-thousandth of the water of a large speading trail comes from the plane’s fuel.
The rest COMES OUT OF THE AIR as accreting ICE (probably at around 30,000 feet) and RETURNS TO THE AIR (probably beneath 20,000 feet) as it evaporates in the warmer air to WATER VAPOR.
None of the trails you see come from anywhere except the engines – and those engines would be DESTROYED by passing metals through them. Think Iceland and volcanic dust – which is similar.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
So you ascertain, with all your scientific knowledge, yet neglecting logic, that because you believe it, it is so. You assume a lot and your sort of assuming is dangerous. So much for those who lean on science, who’ve yet to realize science is subject to corruption and those who are of the worlds smartest, murder can even be a job related benefit. Further, you embrace some science and other science you ridicule. There has been plenty of testing and scientific observation on the matter to make it clear, that chemtrails ain’t contrails. Therefore you, all by yourself, have discredited those YOU blindly follow. As well as your beloved and somehow in your mind, faultless science. Science may faultless, humans and scientists aren’t. The latter are inherently corruptible. Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly, FEMA camps are real, and 911 was an inside job. Climategate has all but destroyed the globalwarming movement, etc., get it? The MIC does not have your best interest at heart. Got it?

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t BELIEVE anything. Science is NOT a belief system. Belief means requiring no physical evidence. Science ALWAYS requires hard evidence, with reason to follow. People are sometimes corrupt, but science is not, nor is mathematics. And, by-the-way, scientists follow SCIENCE, not OTHER scientists.
I embrace science, yes, but “chemtrail” science is an OXYMORON. Those two words just cannot come together without seeming funny. EVERY chemtrailer test or assertion is a FAIL. You guys have NEVER been correct. EVER.
“Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly” – see what I mean? FAIL. You really don’t deserve to live in modern times. And the word is FLUORIDE.
“FEMA camps are real” – That’s a FAIL on your projected usage.
“and 911 was an inside job” is a FAIL on logical and engineering grounds. You are crediting the Bush administration with FAR TO MUCH CAPABILITY.
“Climategate” “destroyed” nothing at all. It did show that GW deniers didn’t mind stealing and privacy intrusion in their desperation to carry out their orders. They represent about 3% of the world’s atmospheric scientists. The other 97% DISAGREE.
“The MIC does not have your best interest at heart” That was said by Dwight D. Eisenhower as he left office in 1961. I believed him then, and I still do.
It’s YOU that’s doing the assuming here. You are concentrating NOT on whether the TOPIC is CORRECT, but on whether or not I am some sort of shill. How, when you so consistently stray from the point, can you EVER be correct?
Science is the closest anyone will ever get to the HARD, PHYSICAL, FACTUAL TRUTH. If you call yourself a “truthseeker”, yet deny science, you’re heading for a world of FAIL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence. I reject science that says military airplanes aren’t spraying civilians and all our food and water sources with deadly chemical spray, so they can curb global warming. Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible. There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911, if there is you should provide it. Fema camps can easily be located on Google maps, Flouride was used by Hitler to sterilize and dumb down, The MIC is running the black op chemtrails. People who believe everything ’scientific’ they hear, without using their own logic are certainly subscribing to a belief system. It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science.

JazzRoc Reply:
“I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence” – Reference? Produce it and let’s see.
“military airplanes” – Then WHY does almost every YT vid show passenger planes? Do you realize that 70,000 tanker flights would be needed, and that these planes CANNOT REACH the stated altitude of 80,000 feet?
“Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible” – of course – they’re people. But are they murdered etc, in greater numbers than any other sector of the population?
“There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911?” – Yes there is, and you’ve seen it. You just don’t understand it.
I’ll tell you a little true story. I was searching for an approximate value for the potential energy stored in a WTC tower, in order to figure out its potential heat value, and therefore how much steel it could POSSIBLY melt if ALL that energy were converted into heat.
The answer is 2,700 tons of steel. (Provided by a “truther” engineer who, for some reason, thought it was necessary to demonstrate that because ALL the tower steel hadn’t melted, then there was no possible reason for a pit of molten steel to exist at the base of the towers, other than foul play, etc., etc.)
Of course, in the pit was a few hundred tons of molten steel (out of the 2,700), and the rest of the energy was spent pulverizing concrete, heating up a lot of air and dust, and making a racket.
That engineer must have been as popular as a sausage in a synagogue.
“It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science” – said the DUNCE to the physics teacher – on the web. Well smack my gob. LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s time to stop responding to JazzRoc. This is a troll. An intelligent troll, but still a troll, using “science”, which these days is full of liars to prove points that go directly against the evidence and trying to make us all look like fools. Not all scientists are liars, but many are involved in the rape of the earth and its people for profit, and the ones who rebel against the globalists end up dead. JR has obviously NEVER seen a chemtrail. He says a million can testify to what he sees. Probably so, but millions MORE are experiencing the results of this chemtrail fallout. So his points are invalidated. Pure science could fix this earth, but globalists are using pure science to destroy it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Yes sir, you are right, he’s hell bent.

JazzRoc Reply:
Chemtrailers are TROLLS en masse. Sites like these exist, chemtrailers think, merely so that “truthers” may compare notes and agree with each other.
But there has NEVER been a greater MUTILATION of MEANING and TRUTH than this cockeyed “movement”, well, not since Orwell’s “1984?
Not a single CNUT can debate rationally or interpret evidence intelligently.
Without exception, they are ALL on the fast and easy road to F – A – I – L
They all go “JazzRoc, you’re OH so perfect, eh?” – (Well, NO, I’m fallible actually!)
etc., etc.
Calling normal people trolls when you’re one yourself, calling competent professional experienced people “sheep” and “shills” when you all bleat together like a pack of sheep yourselves – these are ESPECIALLY irritating habits you ALL share.
But the way you handle “truth”, wow, THAT really takes the biscuit.

FreedomLover Reply:
Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up. The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed. Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings. I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.

Lion Reply:
Barium anomaly preceded the KT boundary event. (Is PP’s glass the same as Springerlink’s orthoclase (silicate)?
springerlink . com / content / v671181266t15g8h /
Abstract Maastrichtian–Danian strata of the Cauvery basin as well as selected sections of NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel record Ba anomalies, away from the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary (KTB) in addition to common occurrences of geochemical and stable isotopic anomalies across the KTB. Ba anomalies were recorded in monotonous shallow marine sandstones of the Cauvery basin (south India) which contain minor amounts of Ba-orthoclase. Barium anomalies were observed also in shallow marine carbonates in sections of Israel, NE-Mexico and Guatemala. Calculation of excess Ba with reference to PAAS (Post-Archaen Average Australian Shale), comparison of coeval geochemical anomalies, depositional pattern and associated petrographic and mineralogical features of the Cauvery basin revealed that while a first Ba peak was related to detrital influx, the second Ba peak was coincident with sea level fall which in turn may have been influenced by emission of volatile hydrocarbons and resultant climatic changes. In view of intrinsic involvement of Ba in various geochemical processes and occurrence of Ba anomalies in K/T sites distributed around the world (NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel), it is suggested that probable causes of such widespread Ba-anomalies should be taken into consideration while analyzing end Cretaceous events. These observations support the views espoused by many workers who have stated that the K/T boundary was also accompanied by many non-catastrophic events that might have contributed to environmental stress on marine fauna, as a result of which selective multi-stage extinctions occurred.
I perceive a propagandist theme, in which “Earth changes” are mundane, daily business – caused by mankind, and under its control. ‘All we have to is come together…’ (agree to collectivist mandates.)

JazzRoc Reply:
Earth changes are OBVIOUSLY not under our control.
As for COMING TOGETHER, are we to take our example from the US?
Religion needs DEMOLITION before we can become a global collective.
Subtleties might be developed AFTER we get rid of the BIG STUFF, eh?

Lion Says:
I find it annoying that humankind is given credit for affecting everything, until there is no wonder left in the natural world; some guy must be causing this, or it is my fault.
The epicenters of earthquakes of inconceivable forces dot the globe. Gas bubbles rise from untouched springs in the hidden tarpits and volcanic mountains of every continent. Yet, one borehole is said to damage the crust beyond repair, because you took the car out on a short ride. Airborne sulfur and glass are blamed on airtravel, because you bought a trinket over the internet.
Many places, with “traditional’ character, outwardly, were given entitlements by the govt to keep things the way they were, like game reserves with people living on them. Even as his mental freedoms were stymied, and applied knowledge became overwhelmed with trolls in every media, the little guy knew he witnessed global de-industrialization, for decades. After a global treaty, prophesied in the Bible, people are reduced to fighting on horseback, with swords and bows, but well-kept, well-studied, and well-connected televangelists go through odd, mental contortions to explain it. Most people were never so coordinated with their surroundings as to be certain that hygiene, shelter, and nutrition were natural miracles. “For three [things] the earth is disquieted, and for four [which] it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat; For an odious [woman] when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.” – from Proverb 30. Aren’t these people really asking you to pick up their slack? Your humble pleasures are being taken from you, to cover for the misdeeds of others.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the lead article here:
“In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature.”
The newscast focuses on Barium, which its “research” shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails”. KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA.”
If you watch this video you can see immediately something is wrong here. It’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million. So what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC: “The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].” So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
* Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month.
* The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
* The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium.
* The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails.
Debunking EVERY “chemtrail” MYTH, one-by-one:
Oh, yeah.
Stamps, Arkansas, is SLAP BANG in the middle of a BARIUM MINING AREA.

No shit.

Texas Identity crisis: “I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.”
Are “the elite” pale? I’ve seen the queen in Southport, and, come-to-think-of-it, yes, she was pale… Are pale people harmful? Do “the elite” live in Tenerife, Spain? Tell me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Looks like it. Sounds like it, smells like it. You must be one of the globalists.

TheExorcist Says:
I told you so.

JazzRoc Says:
“No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.”
Eight years. There’s an hourly overflight from Europe to Brazil/Argentina which strikes heavy trails on occasion. The island gets covered by Saharan sandstorms a few times each year. Now, THAT’s an absolute TREAT of particulates. By the way, WHEN particulates are in the air you will find NO rainbow effects. This is a PROOF that chemtrailers are WRONG when they say that particulates cause “chembows”. They DO NOT, and there’s a million people here who could testify to that.
“I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.”
I’ve worked in a few oil site offices, so I know fairly well what must have taken place. The managerial class shares a similarity with chemtrailers, in that they really believe it’s possible to BEND the rules of physics. Well it’s not, and other people paid the price. So far it all looks very incompetent to me. Horrific.
“The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.”
I’ll take no advice from someone who follows the 2000 year old writings of a bunch of semitic natives of the Middle East, thanks. Nor am I interested in the moneyed class.
The world will NOT destroy itself as long as people like me (builders) avoid taking advice from people that cannot build – like you. There’s no chance of that happening…

FreedomLover Reply:
My “building” is way different from yours. This world as it is was not meant to last. You completely ignore the warnings gathered from the globalists’ own mouths, so when trouble comes to you, you’ll still deny that anything sinister is being put into practice. Google the Georgia Guidestones and read the “commandments” carved in stone. Then think about what it means to most of the people on this planet. Think DEEPLY, maybe the truth will come to you. Unless of course you’re a globalist yourself and believe that you’re above all this. Have a nice life, while it lasts. I’ll not be responding to you again.

JazzRoc Says:
Jazzroc: You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?
Texas IdentityCrisis: “Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!”
You didn’t answer my question. Again.
How can you expect to win a discussion point by resorting to abuse? Again.

calisurfer Says:
I have been looking at what is called the so-called chemtrail phenomenon for awhile and pass through here every now and then. It looks like a debunker that makes the rounds also is here. That would be JazzRoc.
People have shouted shill. I doubt that. The dose of clear thinking he provides could serve as an antidote to things some others serve up.
Carnicom was mentioned. If you listen to him we are all infected with something awful.
When approached through email for abc steps in blood work so some people at a university with access to an electron microscope could take a look the silence was deafening. Wrote that one off.
JazzRoc is secure in what he knows, has looked at some of the outlandish claims, and justifiably counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be. He is, however, “stuck,” (as are most… notice I did NOT say everybody) in his own world. “I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.” ““Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS…”
These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through it. Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest. Strange times. Strange things. And sometimes some very strange things in the sky. I think some things touched upon in quantum mechanics regarding perception and what is real have come into play in some of it. And JazzRoc, I too am obliged by and to the scientific method and mathematics.
People, don’t hate JazzRoc. And JazzRoc, don’t hate people. Don’t use your background and knowledge as an excuse in doing so. Your background and knowledge have their limits. You’ve bumped into the edges of them and are self-confined.

FreedomLover Reply:
Cali, much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzrock doesn’t understand is that very few things remain “pure”. Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays. Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet. Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy. THAT is what Jazzroc is failing to see.
Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead. People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not. We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that there is another entity loose on this planet (satan), whose hatred for humanity is beyond human understanding. I am speaking to those who have a consciousness of God, but I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ and I will NEVER recant that commitment or be ashamed to call Him Lord and Saviour. We are all going to die someday, whether the NWO lets us live to old age and die in our sleep in our beds (probably not), or something else takes us out. “For it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment.” We can deny what God has said all we want, but it’s like gravity. There are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws. Jump off a building denying the law of gravity and someone will still have to clean up the bloody mess. How hard can it be to see the truth except when someone has on deception-colored glasses?
And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?
Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified. “Global warming” debunked. Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?

“Much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzroc doesn’t understand is that very few things remain ‘pure’.”
One of the FIRST things one does before a match (if one wishes to win) is to NEVER underestimate your opponent. You just have…
“Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays.”
Hmm. Yet electrons circle the nucleus of an atom frictionlessly for EVER…
“Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet.”
The last time I looked, the population was still rising, and there were no specially-overcrowded hospitals. The last “mass die-off” I can recall (excluding earthquakes and tsunamis) was 40,000 pensioners in France in 2004 – due to the highest recorded temperatures in France since records began.
“Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy.”
The snags with this idea are that a) NO-ONE CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE, and b) EUGENICS DIED FROM AN EVOLUTIONARY UNDERSTANDING OF GENETICS. Totally dead, that one…
“Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead.”
What’s this? YOU obviously weren’t affected by the Cold War and Mutually-Assured-Destruction? LOL
“People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not.”
NOT. You believe words written by nomadic desert tribesmen four thousand years ago in the Middle East, added to by “jobbing” Essene psychedically-enhanced priests in Palestine, and finally compiled by a convocation of cardinals in Istambul? Bravo! Ah, but you were taught to abandon reason from childhood starting at an age when your parents should have been kinder to you, and taught you to respect reason. Tough. Mine were kinder.
“We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that”
Good until this point. Gibberish thereafter. The fact that the lowest human emotion is FEAR, and if these people fear us, it might be we have given them reason to do so. Consider Afghanistan and Iraq. Sure, those people who ARE manipulating the rest of us may well be in “spasm” too. Fear is the LOWEST emotion because of the paralyzing effect it can have on rational thought. Religion uses fear (of death) to manipulate its congregations. Anyone for Heaven? Better than Hell, eh? You don’t return from there… eternal torture… God revenges…
Chemtrails uses fear to manipulate its “customers”. Colloidal silver, orgone, coriander, anyone? Don’t disagree with me, you SHILL.
“And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?”
Well, you’re a LIAR, and I expect better of you.
“Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified.”
Not if it is Science. Until it is. Then, not if it is Science. Keep repeating that.
“Global warming” debunked.”
By tobacco interests? What keeps debunking this debunking are mass die-offs of old people in hot weather. There will be more…
“Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?”
Here your lack of scientific understanding has REALLY LET YOU DOWN. Neither you nor the data-burglars are capable of interpreting the science shorthand employed.
It’s rather similar to the ARM aerosol planes. These SUCK. They DON’T BLOW. They are gathering data. What for? Understanding how and why atmospheric particulates are DIMMING the solar flux. They are NOT proof that the PTB plan to spray you.
It all boils down to this:
If you don’t know what your talking about, shut up, and go to a library, and study up. Keep quiet until you REALLY know what you’re talking about, and before you begin, learn the rules of debate and the pitfalls of thinking, so that you may properly respect the rights of those who may not agree with you.
Notice I say LIBRARY.
“These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through.”
Wrong. For “terrified” read “horrified”. I am a cheerful and courageous person who has built and flown his own airplane, and never shied away from a fight. I hate bullies and respond, you might say, very badly to them. It may be the reason I had more than sixty jobs in my working life.
“Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest.”
Wrong again. Are you afflicted by dyslexia? Persistent contrails were first witnessed in 1921, persistent spreading ones in 1943, they have occurred (as they MUST) EVERY TIME ANY AIRCRAFT HAS FLOWN THROUGH SUPERSATURATED AIR.
Just because apophenics have clustered their myth-making abilities to fabricate “chemtrails” over the last decade, they should be believed? Of course not. They should be TREATED.
You must have missed it before, so I’ll restate it right now: there is NO physical evidence as to the existence of chemtrails, just as there isn’t to God, Jahwe, Jehovah, Allah, fairies, witches, hobgoblins, and the SPAGHETTI MONSTER.
If there’s NO evidence for whatever – DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT, and do yourself a favor. Live your life as best you can, as if it were your ONLY opportunity, for it IS your only opportunity.
DO NOT support the PTB. That’s easily done by NOT USING MONEY. Build a passive solar home. Gather your food and energy. Practise PERMACULTURE. Say goodbye to the PTB.
There are some helpful and directing videos here:

http ://www.youtube.com/user/beachcomber2008  And yes, I am a musician:

http ://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/38493

calisurfer Says:
“counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be.” through. I will be breaking out a new keyboard today. That has been happening too often.

JazzRoc Reply:
I know what you mean. The sides of the keys get rougher over time.

Mothman Says:
We see the spraying, the results and even the jets spraying all over the world. We should ask who pays for this spraying and if this is an international effort are the costs shared?
Knowing who pays should be followed by who controls the whole operation? The jets, the pilots, the chemical transport to the aviation assets, the people? Who are these individuals or groups involved?
We must begin to ask who is involved and why? When they use national security as an excuse, then I would use Congress or the Senate to ensure that what is being done is not some complete and total UN program that impedes on our sovereignty while it forces the American public to pay for something that is designed to kill the populations of the world.

Mr. Clear View Reply:
Look. You’ve been fed a bunch of hogwash and believe it. Red herrings are thrown at you and you eat them. If it was all designed to kill you, how come you are still sitting and typing?
It’s the progeny of the Star Wars program. Toys for big boys. Crud spewed for hitting by rf to make a plasma to play with. Some dedicated planes for when more precision is necessary.
Sub-micron particles of aluminum in jet fuel that are small enough to polish the blades rather than destroy the engine outright in commercial. Any health side effects are besides the point of it all, and are just a bonus. Like a multinational that has one tentacle in the cigarette biz and another in cancer drugs. Are the people that get a paycheck and have the zeal for the toys overly concerned about you? About as much as those who sent and then tracked the soldiers in Plumbbob’s Smoky.

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s a SLOW kill, just like every other thing these maggots put into place. If they attacked the world’s people all at once with a single weapon, the people would wake up and rise up in revolution. Do some clear research on Hitler and what his cronies did to people. These are not simple killers. They are the type that would pull the wings off a butterfly, watch it crawl around for half an hour and then fry it with a magnifying glass. They love misery, suffering and torture. These are not sane or happy people. We have to get over the delusion that they know what’s best and have our best interests at heart. They don’t. Get over it.

JazzRoc Reply:
You must be simple. Well, simple person, there is NO such thing as a “spraying nozzle” fitted to ANY aircraft which produces the trails you see in the sky. TRAILS are made by COOLING the turbofan engine exhaust down from 1300 to -40 degrees Celsius between 25,000 and 40,000 feet up in the stratosphere. They are made by the COMBINATION of the COLD and the HUMIDITY of the air they are laid in. “Chemtrails” are MYTHOLOGICAL and NOT TRUE. Being FALSE, there is NO NEED to ask who originated them, just as there is NO NEED to wonder whether the SPAGHETTI MONSTER created JEHOVAH. Your UN paranoia is a great laugh, thanks for that.

Lion Reply:
You never explicitly tell us what you would acknowledge as evidence of chemtrails, God, or the criminality of the UN.

JazzRoc Reply:
That would be worthless hypothesizing.
Demonstrate CHEMTRAILS.
Demonstrate GOD.
Demonstrate UN criminality.
They’re YOUR ideas, not mine, so DEMONSTRATE them to me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just wait around a couple more years. There is no convincing you now. But you’ll see. Unfortunately by the time you crawl out of that comfortable little shell of a neat little scientific world view that says everything is done for the good of mankind and there are no tyrants, it will probably be too late.

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course there are tyrants. Societies need to kurb them. To do so they need “good intelligence”. I couldn’t agree more.
But let us consider WHAT intelligence might be “good”, shall we?
In time of WAR, the side with poor intelligence LOSES.
Do you want me fighting against you?
Are you waiting for Nibiru? LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
Get thee behind me, satan. You’re using your super-intelligence and super-ego AGAINST the world’s people. You’re exposed and defeated. The minute you deny there are evil people in the world who use everything in their power to carry out a depopulation agenda, your words are no longer worth considering, no matter how logical or book-learned you are. These brutal maggots have MONEY – get it? Money can buy a whole lot of suffering for those they deem unworthy of life. From their own mouths come the words “too many people on earth, we have to do something about this.” Here’s a good idea. Go to Rockefeller, Holdren, Pelosi et al, and preach your scientific gospel to them. Change their minds about what they’re doing. Use your scientific expertise to help the human race instead of killing them off. By your inaction, your complete failure in offering ANY beneficial solutions, you’re contributing to the suffering and death of millions. That smells like NWO. Who died and made you God anyway? Who gave you the authority to puff yourself up and say that because you have some training and experience, that makes your life more valuable in God’s eyes than some poor half-starved child in a third-world country? Your arrogance stinks.

ShieldsRdown Says:
Danger In The Sky – The Chemtrail Phenomenon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A

JazzRoc Reply:
Has a debunker in its midst – Beachcomber2008. That guy is ME.

DreamToShare Says:
SHINING DUST is what we see now a days. Run your hand on a dusty area and hold it under the sun light, it shines.

truthorconsequence Says:
Interestingly enough, our skies have been suspciously clear since the BP spill happened…could it be that the bulk of those chemicals that have been sprayed via air are now being dumped into the Gulf? Has NALCO been linked to chemtrail related activity?

FreedomLover Reply:
I don’t know. We’ve had no chemtrailing for 2 days now, skies clear of clouds, but a persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore. And electric discharge that used to only happen in the winter.

JazzRoc Reply:
By “electric discharge” you mean STATIC ELECTRICITY. That means your air is DRY.
A persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore is PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG which has been trapped in an INVERSION. Inversions form over cities, especially where the cities are sited geographically in a “bowl” of surrounding hillsides. If you are concerned about the air you breathe then complain to your local govt.

FreedomLover Reply:
They don’t listen. Neither do you.

I’m not here to argue I’m hear to ask questions. Why is it when I see a fighter jet as a spec shooting across the sky there’s no contrail? Why aren’t contrails constant if they are just water vapor? seems to me they are tuned on and off.

JazzRoc Reply:

The air that creates a contrail is THIN. One tenth the pressure at ground level. It’s cold. At this time of the year it will be -40 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s humid. It will be 85% Relative Humidity or greater. It’s HIGH UP. It will be anywhere over about 25,000 feet. I say “anywhere” because it will be trapped in a relatively thin and flat LAYER (or several of them) anywhere between 25,000 and 45,000 feet. Above this height the temperature is rising with altitude, and conditions become less favorable.
The kicker is that these layers of differing humidity are all TRANSPARENT and cannot be distinguished from the ground. I have noticed that it is possible to spot them from the aircraft by looking at the horizon. Jet streams in these layers are fast-moving and can be fairly opaque with fine ice crystals. Planes passing through them make thick trails in these conditions.
Freedom Lover:
“jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.”
You haven’t contested a single point I have made. Instead you resort to AD HOMINEMs like there were no tomorrow. These ad homs you can neither prove, nor I disprove. They’re TIMEWASTERS. I can understand WHY you would rather waste time than get to the truth: you don’t want to lose an argument.
“Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR.”
It is MORE ARROGANT of you to speak from a position of ignorance than it is for me to speak from a position of experience.
“If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people.”
I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.
“The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist.”
I’m asking you to IGNORE A PROBLEM WHICH DOESN’T EXIST. There are plenty of conspiracies left to check out.
“NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.”
I’m retired already. Your problem, apophenia and ignorance is CURABLE. There is work to do. Finding a counter-effort to the Tea Party and Neocon moves might be a good isea, for instance.
“You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.”
As you haven’t contested a single point of science which I have made, interested onlookers might consider YOU “busted”.
Until you conduct a proper debate, it’s YOU who is the troll.

FreedomLover Reply:
“I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.”
Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree. Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.
I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone. There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it. So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?

JazzRoc Reply:
“Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree.”
That’s another of my gifts. I should have used it sooner in my life, for sure, but I’m certainly not going to miss the opportunity to use it now. My advice is TRUE and GOOD. Follow it.
“Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.”
You’re correct, technology does indeed exist that will EASILY save the Human Race from distress, let alone extinction, and I’ll admit I’m NO LONGER trying to do so, that’s true, but I DID spend thirty years trying. How long have YOU spent? But you’re also quite WRONG: I have indeed offered my best advice here on these pages. If you haven’t noticed, yet received one of my boots in your face, it was indeed well-deserved. Look again.
“I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone.”
These people are both cushioned AND alienated, and I’ll buy that. I wouldn’t trust them any further than I could throw them either. But they only have as much power of you as you allow them. If you don’t use their money they have NO power over you at all.
“There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it.”
Sorry, the scientist in me sees NO evidence whatsoever. You should trust my judgement here – I know, fat chance.
“So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?”
The only non-troll part of YOU is this SLIGHT tendency you have to discuss something with me. The rest is ALL troll.
“Good disinfo” is a classic oxymoron.
I used to be a warm, open-hearted, and somewhat gullible person in the early sixties. The LAST time I was deceived was around 1984. The man responsible for that deception is in a Los Angeles jail right now facing a 170-year sentence.
“JR, do you really think you’re going to escape everything that’s coming on the world? You can go join the elite in their deep underground military bases and maybe survive for awhile. But you’ll still die one day. What then? I’m trying to be kind in response to your swaggering scoffing, but you make it pretty darned hard.”
I have NO WISH to escape the future. However my children and grandchildren deserve better than your poor imagination can envisage. The “elite” have no desire for me, and the feeling’s mutual. So I’ll die. I won’t be worrying after that. Sorry about the difficulties I seem to put you in, but (yawns, forgets)…
“Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up.”
Tut-tut. You blow hot, you blow cold… I’m more concerned with protecting the interests of my grandchildren. And my aims aren’t THAT high either. I KNOW that what (you might call) CASUAL onlookers are going to think. Let me tell you this. They are going to see a theme with a PERSISTENT OPPOSITION running through it. They can choose either way, it’s no matter. There’s just NOT GOING TO BE a visibly-consistent consensus. And that will work. The continual dissonance has a way of working itself through the subconscious mind more frequently, and ONE DAY, could be (certainly has been!) years away, you will ask yourself again exactly why you disagreed with me, and re-examine your own motivations for doing so.
“The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed.”
I used to live in North Wales. Do you know that sheep invented VELCRO? They learned it by sticking themselves to thornbushes (right up in the air). I used to pick them off the hawthorns when their plight become unbearable to watch. A minute or two laughing, then – pluck.
“Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings.”
No, seriously, I AM fallible. The point is that to be responsible you have to humbly admit to youself that you ARE fallible. You then stand a greater chance of remedying your mistakes BEFORE you make them.
“I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.”
The Earth is an oblate spheroid. The North Pole is five miles closer than the South Pole to the DEAD CENTER of the Earth. Hot stuff there, dense nickel/iron plasmatic solid core, fission-driven to a temperature as hot as the surface of the Sun.
I live on a small volcanic desert made by a natural, soft “concrete” formed by the action of rainfall on what was once a massive pyroclastic flow. Above me fertile volcanic soils, above them hardwoods and fruit trees, above them pine forests, above them ragged and sour volcanic ridges through which run sleek greyhound-like wild dogs. Below me the shoreline replete with shrimps and other tasty arthropods, crabs, pretty fish, and pretty tasty fish. Get me?
“Just as in the “global warming” hoax [snip] cap & trade tax through.”
I thought we’d covered this. The whole thing’s a scam by 3% self-appointed experts – with 97% of atmospheric scientists in direct opposition. A bit of DISPARITY there…
“The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water.”
I’m the grandson of a Welsh coal-miner, thanks, with nothing in the bank. I’m part of your “poor, poorer” sector. But as I’m 66 I collect a (slightly low) state pension. My last job was as a physics teacher. I’m married to a physics teacher, too. It just goes to show that you can work hard all your life – and still get SNAFU’d. In a more numerate and technically-competent world – I’d have saved the world. (LOLs insanely)
“Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people.”
Of course it can be cheap-ish. It’s dearer than the States, I reckon, but the food’s better.
As for “blasting” people, a sort of English politeness works with scientists (because the words count) but not with emotional or religious non-scientists. Emotive issues must be raised immediately, in order to draw attention to physical evidence and reasoned logic.
“Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.”
If you are American or British you ARE messing up the planet. It’s about time you took responsibility for your situation.
I tried for a very long time, and left Britain with a whole bunch of physical ailments (stress, mostly, with a worsening hay-fever) which have all now departed, mercifully.
All the better to blast you with. 🙂

FreedomLover Reply:
First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me.
Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.
1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.
2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.
3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.

Jazz and freedom thanks for taking this way out of line and o.t. You two are smarter than I but I know when to s.t.f.u. you might wanna think about that next time you bombard everyone with your b.s.

JazzRoc Says:
“First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me. Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.”
Stretching a tenous “belief system” here, thanks for being attentive. I may have been shot down but at least my “parachute” opened.

“1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.”
Chemtrails are MYTHOLOGICAL. You managed to convince yourself of their existence without any real evidence, so it is definitely possible to retrace your steps to find out where you took the wrong fork, find a bit of evidence you MISSED, and take a different path.
The ORIGIN of the trail is a case in point. There is a GAP in the trail before it forms. Metal ions would be VISIBLE IN THAT GAP. Metal ions are used in fireworks to COLOR the FLAMES. The engine exhaust is a FLAME. If it isn’t COLORED there aren’t any METAL IONS.
So it’s NOT the engines that are laying the trail – it comes from the body. Now you sometimes see body trails, from the galley/washbasins, and also from the Auxiliary Power Unit, but they are real small, and discontinuous.
So WHERE can these metal particles be coming from?

“2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.”
And they worry me more than anyone does – we agree. The only difference between them and Nazis is they don’t seem to have working extermination camps anywhere.
“3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.”
I don’t suffer from your over-riding fear, as I have shrugged off my religious programming. I accept that OBLIVION FOLLOWS DEATH. And oblivion is what you fear. Your religion provides you comfort against that fear, and it must be nice. But there is no evidence for life after death.
Your “soul” is the electrochemical CONFIGURATION of that piece of MEAT inside your skull which you call your brain.
Life on Earth began abiogenically, died, began, died, began (etc.) and finally survived to evolve 3.8 billion years ago, and every cell in every SINGLE, SEPARATE living being on Earth is taking part in further evolution RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS MORE IMPLACABLE AND GOD-LIKE than the SUM TOTAL of ALL that effort. All life is related to itself and forms a tree, the trunk being the original transbiote.
LIFE is the Universe’s way of knowing itself. BOTH ARE UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL.
ANY god is surplus to requirements. Especially the Judaic one.
Study the subject of EMERGENCE.

FreedomLover Reply:
You’re obviously stuck in your denial. I wish you “luck”. You’re going to need it. I hope your godless philosophy gives you comfort because that’s all you’ve got. I have nothing to fear, for your information, and I have nothing to gain if you believe or don’t except giving the devil a black eye and rescuing one more soul out of his deceptive plan of destruction.
You practice “faith” every day. When you sit down in a chair, when you turn on the water tap, when you turn the key in the ignition of your car, even when you breathe. That same faith is required to believe in God.
You’ve been presented with the truth. If you deny that God exists in accordance with your godless philosophy, then you don’t have to acknowledge Him or account for your sins – and we’ve ALL sinned at some point. I don’t have to worry about God’s judgment because I accepted what Jesus did on my behalf. I can sleep peacefully at night, and I do. It seems that your heart and your thinking is hardened probably beyond redemption. But I will pray for you, (already have) that God will open your eyes and that you will not pass out of this life in the same condition you are now. Since you don’t want God to “interfere” in your earthly life, there is only one place you can go for that to be permanently true.
You don’t have any proof that the THEORY of evolution is real. Where are the transitional forms? Just for a start. Where is your proof that the earth is “billions of years old”? Your theory is full of holes. Leaving this to mere chance would be like expecting a tornado to plow through a junkyard and pop – out comes a fully-functioning 747, let alone a wrist watch. The odds are so great against that, and even with all your so-called experience and learning, only a blind fool would believe such an outrageous scenario. Apparently there are a lot of them, including teachers, or they would not pass on such a farce to impressionable students. Intelligent design is the only way this earth and everything on it could have come about. Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals, and the crown of God’s creation, humanity. What are the odds that any ONE of these fully-functioning living beings could survive on their own. Oh, a fish decided that it wanted to walk on land, so it grew lungs and walked out of the water. No, it flopped out of the water – and died! Mutations do not long survive, and mutations NEVER evolve upward. They also do not reproduce (mules are a prime example). Why do living things die when they are poisoned by changes in atmosphere, water, etc.? The earth was designed in perfect balance so that life could be sustained – in EVERY way. The atmosphere, gravity, distance from the sun; need I go on? We were designed for God’s pleasure and to enjoy Him. I do. When I think about even colors, tastes, smells, all our senses – God did not have to give us anything except what is necessary for survival. There are blind fish in caves that do just fine. Why did God create (realizing you don’t believe in God) dozens of different varieties of fruit – when just one would have been enough? For all your book-learned knowledge, you still are blind.
It takes more “faith” to believe the theory of evolution which has no evidence in fact, than it does to believe in a loving Creator. Your belief system is sadly out of balance, my friend. All I’m doing is giving you something much deeper than your eyesight to consider. I’m finished talking to a brick wall.

JazzRoc Says:
“I’m finished talking to a brick wall.” is ironic considering you have not and will not discuss HOW a “chemtrail” gets made, yet you’re claiming them to be made.
The need to slavishly adhere to the first primitive writings ever made and reject the basis (science) of the world you live in, hasn’t got you killed – yet – but it stands to kill you in the future.
Back a few centuries you guys were hot to apply ropes, tongs and fire to guys like me, and you’ll notice the reverse doesn’t apply. Why is that, do you suppose?
The age of most things can be determined by the proportions of the isotopes of the elements uf which these things are made. There are many comparisons possible and they overlap.
“Science” time, like the Age of the Earth, differs from “creationist” time – by a factor of 800,000 times. That is NOT an insignificant error.
Evolution will never be PROVED with a SINGLE item of EVIDENCE. It is CONFIRMED by many parallel sets of evidence which agree with each other. In spite of the best efforts of “creationists”, NO DISPROOF HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Nor will it ever be.
When life started on Earth, there was NO OXYGEN in the atmosphere at all. “Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals” would have suffocated instantly. It took four billion years to produce a REALLY oxygen-rich atmosphere, and before that happened LAND ANIMALS lacked the powerful energy which could be obtained from combusting hydrogen with oxygen – they lacked the capability of STRENGTH.
As I’ve told you before, YOU are the one advocating FAITH. Science is a working method which does away with faith. In fact, it is NOT Science until it HAS. ANY argument using the word has no place whatsoever in Science. Unless it were the “Science” of faith.
But “faith” is, after all, “confidence”, and the first confidence-tricksters anywhere were priests, without a doubt.
I could pick through your tired old and mind-bogglingly-stupid points one-by-one, but this isn’t the place to do it. The thread title is “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” and I demolished this concept in my first post, entirely unchallenged. It’s all over.
Opposition to my logic vanished faster than common-sense inside a “creationist museum”.
Which is what I expected.
The fact that you think you know what’s going on I find very amusing. Also that you’re confident that chemtrails exist and you don’t feel the need for proof.
What I don’t find amusing is that you then deem yourself FREE to slander ANYONE who disagrees with you, that works in the aircraft industry or all the support industries, FREE to disperse blatant lies and frauds across the web, FREE to interfere with the flow of information in society which enables it to heal itself.
I think you should lose your voting power, your citizenship, and gain yourself a one-way ticket to farming kelp and sheep on the Falkland Isles. A hard dose of reality might straighten you out.


It is interesting that the thread appeared to come to a stop at this point.

Chemtrailers employ several techniques to ESCAPE discomfort zones in comments, blogs, and forums. The favorite (apart from direct ad hominem attacks) is a technique known as “astroturfing”. This is the cut-and-pasting of LARGE tracts which push short comments immediately over the page and render them difficult to rediscover.

You will notice that

1. They NEVER answer a question.

2. They change the subject,

3. They ignore statements which they dislike without challenge.

4. They work to destroy the logical buildup to a point.

5. They ignore challenges.

6. They make up new theories on the fly to add “body” to their “evidence”.

7. They ALWAYS respond to challenge with an adhominem attack. These “namings” allow them to think no further.

8. Just as well, for they HATE thinking in the first place.

9. When in disarray, they slander and lie.



Stephen Salters Salt-Spray Trimaran

Stephen Salter's Salt-Spray Trimaran


“something is going on in our skies” – Passenger plane flights are at a MAXIMUM probably never to be exceeded in the history of the world, seeing that we have passed PEAK OIL.

You are seeing the normal consequences of civil aviation – burnt fuel in the stratosphere (300 million tons of it per year). You are seeing some of the 300 million tons of WATER.

“spraying seems to be higher during certain parts of the year. Is there anything to this?” – Stratospheric air is seasonally WETTER. In these wetter conditions CONTRAILS are deposited. The number of flights remains constant: you just don’t SEE them when they don’t leave trails.


“suffering from chronic pain syndrome, Fibromyalgia like symptoms but other than some Arthritis and mild disc herniations” – How old are you? Sounds like normal wear and tear to me. Human beings normally experience trouble with their backs and joints over time.

“I wonder if this is caused by what is going on in the sky?” – Well, my joints certainly tell ME when the humidity is UP!


Jet streams are fast flowing, narrow air currents found in the atmospheres of some planets.   The main jet streams are located near the tropopause, the transition between the troposphere (where temperature decreases with height) and the stratosphere (where temperature increases with height).

The major jet streams on earth are westerly winds (flowing west to east).   Their paths typically have a meandering shape; jet streams may start, stop, split into two or more parts, combine into one stream, or flow in various directions including the opposite direction of most of the jet.

The strongest jet streams are the polar jets, at around 7–12 km (23,000–39,000 ft) above sea level, and the higher and somewhat weaker subtropical jets at around 10–16 km (33,000–52,000 ft).   The northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere each have both a polar jet and a subtropical jet.   The northern hemisphere polar jet is situated over the middle to northern latitudes of North America, Europe, and Asia, while the southern hemisphere polar jet mostly circles Antarctica all year round.

Jet streams are caused by a combination of atmospheric heating (by solar radiation and, on some planets other than earth, internal heat) and the planet’s rotation on its axis.  They form near boundaries of adjacent air masses with significant differences in temperature, such as the polar region and the warmer air to the south.

Meteorologists use the location of the jet streams as an aid in weather forecasting.  The main commercial relevance of the jet streams is in air travel, as flight time can be dramatically affected by either flying with or against a jet stream.  Clear-air turbulence, a potential hazard to aircraft, often is found in a jet stream’s vicinity.  One future benefit of jet streams could be to power airborne wind turbines.

Other jets also exist.  During the northern hemisphere summer, easterly jets can form in tropical regions, typically in a region where dry air encounters more humid air at high altitudes.  Low level jets also are typical of various regions such as the central United States.




Good article and all true most of the visible trails are formed at the wing tips due to the quick change in pressure. Most people do not know how an aircraft stays up in the air. Most think that if the engines stop it would drop vertically. A large aircraft say 250 tons needs 250 tons less pressure on the upper surface of the wings to maintain level flight. So at the wing tips it spills from the under side to the top surface. It is this change in state that causes the visible trails. you can actually tell the coming weather, if the trails are short it is going to be dry the next couple of days. If they are long it means more humidity = unstable air = possible rain or thunder clouds.

The worlds largest source of noxious gases is man himself, no not really, but all mammals produce over 60% of the total CO2 emissions and aircraft less than 3%, so there!

Jonty (I spent a lot of time up there)


Well, JP, thanks very much. I’ve grown very accustomed to unpleasantness over the last few months and it’s almost unique (3 others) and refreshing to have effusive praise for a change. But probably not a good idea to continue it…

I too have just been doing the ironing. About 2 hrs before a painful crick in the neck forced me to stop. Then a dip in the pool to cool down…

Perhaps we can agree on collaborative material later. I too have a prog-geek friend (Borland) who is a great buddy.

Good luck with your op. No-one’s any good if their back’s no good. I know of people who have made complete recovery from such an op, so don’t worry. It should change your life, although recuperation is soooo long that it won’t seem that way.

I’ve never even HEARD of Live-Video so do tell me more.

No – I haven’t FOUND JazzrocISaSPOOK. I can feel my pulse increase. I don’t think I WANT to find it. One channel got so desperate as to write to itself as JazzrocK and say they were OK etc.


Concerned Citizens against the Patriot Act:

franklin “They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin



commenting in ‘Barium Chemtrails’ in Contrailscience.com 22 Feb 2009.

Someone else with the keen nose for deceit that Jay Reynolds has:

Just in case someone on this blog might want to create your own conspiracy theory so you can have something new to talk about (this blog is really interesting, but this one has been beaten to death by both sides here), here is a step-by-step approach to creating your own custom conspiracy theory.

1. Pick your bad guy – government, big corporations etc. Ideally also pick on some shadowy, cult-like organization which can supposedly be connected with your adversary. (I know The Da Vinci Code is fictional but, hey, Opus Dei was a good pick!).
2. Pick a major current event to base your theory on – especially an unexpected, shocking, visual event that’s shared.
3. Develop your story – pick & choose your source info, construct a compelling story from it, and hey if something doesn’t fit your story, reinterpret it! Sow uncertainty, query the official evidence, and find new facts contradicting it. (Work on your postulates and corollaries)
4. Prepare your defense – be prepared to tweak your conspiracy theory around the edges should anyone point out any inconsistencies etc, but always hold to the core theory, emphasizing that it’s just a question of getting the evidence to prove its truth. And if others question your theory, well they must be in on the conspiracy too, mustn’t they?

After this is done, I would say that the best thing to do to make sure that you are able to sustain the theory in the public is to keep your personal dopamine level high. That will keep you attentive to daily and personal details that can support your theory, help you feel good about it, and do a lot to decrease your short term memory (letting you forget things not in your personal experience that don’t support your theory). It will also help if the first people you expose to the theory that are feeling somewhat alienated, disenfranchised and disaffected related to your bad guy, as these people will be the group that will turn out to be your base. It’s better if this group is somewhat monotheistic (not just about religion) or not interested in a lot of open dialog about a subject, but that is not entirely necessary, as long as they are fairly certain in their belief system. It doesn’t really matter what the belief system is, as long as they are fairly strong adherents to one system and are not too interested in open dialog. Try to encourage them to keep their dopamine levels high too; it will pay off in keeping your base faithful and supportive.

Right now is a time when we have perfect storm conditions when it comes to the creation of conspiracy theories, so I recommend that you make your picks and get started. The elements are currently in place that are necessary for the creation of a new and widely held conspiracy that has staying power:

1. Need to have a group of people, a significant portion of the population, that are feeling a bit alienated from the system. George Bush saw to putting this one in place.

2. A sub-group of these people need to have a tendency to distrust other people. This is where your monotheists come into play. There are many groups that could work for this purpose, one of which frequents this blog.

3. The best time to introduce a new conspiracy theory is when there is a feeling of insecurity when it comes to continued employment. I don’t think you could pick a better time in our lifetime (so far).

I hope that this is helpful in giving anyone interested some guidelines in setting up a useful conspiracy theory that will serve you well in parties you attend. Through the internet, a new theory can get moving pretty quickly, once you get the basics planned out and have a base you have identified and who are aware of your theory. If you can put some thought into the postulates supporting your theory, you’ll find that this will play a very big part in creating a successful conspiracy theory. Base it on some good postulates that can be objectively proved and demonstrated. It will make conversations and arguments you have concerning your theory fairly strong, and most people, not being familiar with scientific method, will be overwhelmed by the attention to detail and just simply give up. (On the other hand, if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t. If someone doesn’t know a lot or is not impressed with the details, it’s possible that outright lies will work as well.)

Good luck and have fun. I look forward to seeing if anything interesting comes out of this post. I am not the author of all this material, but have had an interest in studying conspiracy theories since my psychology classes in college in the 60’s, and because of the perfect storm conditions right now, I’m interested to see what might come up. Consider this a bit of cloud seeding…



Svetlana Kapenina is the most impressive pilot I have seen – ever.

Perhaps its because I prefer looking at beautiful women, but for me it isn’t all looks. It’s also ability, wit, intelligence, and competence. Well, this woman sure is competent. If I could travel in time, I would…  never mind.

Peter Besenyei? Yeah, he’s there…

Don’t forget to select full screen for maximum impact.


“difficult to believe/time/chemtrail videos/comments/denial of their existence” – Snap. I find it difficult to believe you believe such baseless crap.

“i watched/blue sky/outer banks turn/mass of cirrus like clouds/emit from planes” – Aviation is BIG BUSINESS. They are MULTINATIONALS. They burn a MILLION TONS OF KEROSINE EACH DAY. It makes a MILLION TONS OF ICE, as a FINE WHITE SMOKE, and puts it into the stratosphere, which is so cold and pre-saturated with water vapor that IT CANNOT ABSORB THAT ICE AS WATER VAPOR.

“stayed/ hours/ passing out of site/ followed/ same/ cloud/ upwind/ happens every day all year” – That’s BIG BUSINESS for you. It NEVER STOPS.

“looked/information you say is proof/no worry” – An ESSENTIAL PART of the process is that you UNDERSTAND the proof, which can only be done by your own effort of READING SCIENCE. If you don’t check out the science, then you won’t understand what you read, and you’ll start believing CT claptrap.

“you know for a fact/harmful” – Now, stand back and analyze YOUR statement. What do you mean? How CAN you assert that? What EVIDENCE do you have?

“govt/cover/up” – I don’t know how they can cover up passenger flights. Do you mean military flights? I thought the whole purpose of military activities were SECRET: if they were KNOWN, they wouldn’t be a DEFENSE.


“military brat/believe that you cognitive senses/failed” – Another WITLESS assertion. I can think and reason and spell and write better than you, and I guess I can calculate, compose, draw, engineer, drive, fly, invent tools and speak languages better than you. You don’t seem much good at anything…


“believe the bullshit you say” – You have already LIED on this page. For many years, I have never had reason to lie. I don’t propose to do so for any reason whatsoever.

“If/actually have/family” – http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc shows all that’s interesting in my world.

“hard to believe/so ignorant/obvious truth” – YOU are the one who is the wrong side of the mirror. Get a life and stop believing. UNDERSTANDING Science DOES NOT REQUIRE BELIEF. You wouldn’t know the TRUTH if it hit you in the face.

“affects/kills us daily” – I can see you’re AFFECTED.

Let’s consider for a moment the concept of DEPOPULATION. (Assuming you believe we’re manipulated by EVIL REPTILES!) The STABILITY OF A SPECIES (in this case, Man) depends on the depth of his GENE POOL. An 85% CULL would NOT leave you 15%, as you might imagine, but is more likely to be an EXTINCTION EVENT, due to reduction in the gene bandwidth (look up species stability). The reptiles are presumably wanting servants to remain, so they aren’t going to do that, are they? Assuming there are NO reptiles, the same result obtains. So CULLING IS OUT.

The Global Warming/Dimming problem is cheaply adjustable by remote-controlled salt-spray trimarans which work out THOUSANDS OF TIMES CHEAPER THAN ALUMINUM/BARIUM AEROSOL SPRAYS. So Al/Ba SPRAYING IS OUT.



Hi, you need to reread my letter which COMPLETELY ANSWERS POINT ONE. If you don’t get it then keep trying. It WILL dawn on you if you make the effort to think.


Slime Mould

2. “a sticky yellow surface on ground/strange web like thread” Yes. The accidents of Nature on a huge scale. There’s REALLY NO LINK to aircraft flying in the STRATOSPHERE. A conventional study of atmospheric science shows this. To PROVE a CHEMTRAIL you must SAMPLE IT DIRECTLY. If you DON’T, then YOU HAVE NO LINK.

3. “barium/aluminium/bacteria/magnesium” – SEE ABOVE. Clay is ALUMINUM SILICATE and is found in SOIL. So are the other listed materials. Every square inch of your body is COVERED with sometimes THOUSANDS and sometimes MILLIONS of bacteria.

4. “EPA continously negate the need to investigate/do not give any reasons” – They probably make the same set of statements as mine, and THAT gets misreported.

5. “big white planes without markings” – From FIVE to EIGHT MILES BENEATH “big white planes without markings” is ALL YOU CAN SEE. BLACK planes are INVISIBLE, and sometimes give rise to “mystery secret chemtrail generators” MYTHS. CONVINCING PROOF OF THIS I can offer you RIGHT NOW, if your sky is clear. It is the HALF MOON IN DAYLIGHT. YOU CANNOT SEE A TRACE OF ITS SHADOW SIDE. NOT A BIT. It’s due to “BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING”.

“tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – That old chestnut. Observed wherever the stratosphere is wet enough for persistent contrails and there are CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS and a PREVAILING STRATOSPHERIC FLOW. Imagine printing an X on a moving sheet of paper – you get a grid.

Use the old brain box. It’s finer than the best computers in the world, but only if you’re as devoted to LOGIC as Sherlock Holmes.

“The contrails can be bigger then most clouds” – You haven’t understood the physical nature of the stratosphere. If a layer of it is supersaturated, and a contrail is laid in it, it will ACCRETE more ice onto the ice crystals. It will continue to do this until the humidity falls to 100% in that layer. The crystals are gaining weight and falling out of this layer, of course. But by the time they have done so it is easily possible for the trail to have increased its weight by a factor of ONE TO TEN THOUSAND TIMES!

Supersaturated air only occurs when the air is sparklingly clean, so it is a further irony that such conditions are eagerly filmed by CTers as “proof”!


Ice Crystal

“For 30 years of my life I have never seen “a natural sticky yellow surface covering the ground”. What could make a thing like that? If you know, tell me”Slime mould.

“There it is, it’s called probability. And probability is accepted by science, it all depends how high the probability is. Try to guess what is the probability that I will find a “sticky yellow surface”, for the first time in my life after a plane making strange (strange to many people) trail, flew over the sky” – Well, the trails weren’t unusual. Really. And slime mould exists. There probably will be such a coincidence.

“If you can get a sample of rain on that day, and compare it with samples of rain from other days, without trails and if your results show a difference, then you are very close to knowing (other than guessing)”. – You’ll pick up most “knowing” on dry, windy, and dusty days, won’t you?

“If we agree, that the “strange sticky”, and “white powder” are natural, then you are right, this proves nothing. But they are not natural to me. They look even less natural under a microscope” – Well obtain an independent qualified opinion.

“What would you do Tony if you were the head of number one environmental policing agency and citizens asked you about planes spraying chemicals in the air? I am sure you would investigate not just ignore” – Yes. But I might not call a public conference if there was inconclusiveness or negation.

“One year later, in 2000, EPA received a physical sample of highly unusual airborne,  fibrous material. (I am sending you attached photos of one such sample). Their reply “we are unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere”. How would you react Tony, when sent a fiber like this? Remember you are the head director of a national agency whose aim is to watch over the security of the environment. Wouldn’t you sent it to a lab, and then to another to verify? Check what planes might have flown there, talk to pilots, ask citizens, and so on? Of course, if that would have been a natural fiber, made by a spider for example you would have informed about its natural origin, wouldn’t you?” – Yes. But what would I say if I WERE unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere?

“A white plane from 5-8 miles looks different then half white half blue plane from 5-8 miles” – LOL. But that’s the ONLY thing you could say! I think you take my point.

“Tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS – “To prove whether these could be left by shuttle flights we need an opinion of an expert, pilot or a radar operator. I am neither, but these seems highly unlikely to me to be left by shuttles” – I am disappointed that you cannot accept my explanation. It is crystal clear in my mind, and I believe you don’t follow the logic. Imagine printing and reprinting an X on a sheet of paper. You produce a grid. It doesn’t matter which way you move the paper, as long as it isn’t directly along one of the crossing route paths. Aircraft are ten times faster than wind conditions so distortions are no more significant than those from the observers’ viewpoint.

What is even more unsettling is the IMPORTANCE attached to “GRIDS”.

“GRIDS” are meaningless, for the stratospheric contents are deposited hundreds, perhaps thousands of kilometres from where you see them. The stratosphere is hardly ever MOTIONLESS, and GRIDS are the PROOF of it, and NOT the consequence of some organized campaign. (Much as dense contrails are the PROOF of clean air, and not the reverse).

“Tell me what you think about an idea to sent a balloon into a trail like that and gathering a sample” – Hopeless. The balloon would have to be free, and you would have to find it. Radio? No. You can’t steer it, and as it crosses the tropopause the wind direction might easily change to an unwanted one (it’s one of the stratosphere’s characteristics). No, you MUST hire a fast small private jet.

You must also have synchronized video cameras trained on ALL the test equipment ALL of the time, with NO PART EVER LEAVING THE FRAME. The plane-mounted (temporarily) capture equipment MUST take the sample from the trail IN SIGHT of the emitting plane, and that plane has to be identifiable and identified (civil or military number) IN THE FRAME. With VERIFIED CLEAN EQUIPMENT, AN INDEPENDENT OBSERVER, AN INDEPENDENT CHEMIST AND BIOLOGIST, you can then GUARANTEE that you have INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE.

(But it will be of water, carbon dioxide, trace hydrocarbons, NOX, SOX, so I wouldn’t bother if I were you!). Testing of aircraft exhaust products been carried out by various interested parties over the last fifty-five years.






And as for “GeoEngineering” – don’t make me laugh!

As a proportion of the AREA of the EARTH the United States is INSIGNIFICANT, at under 2%.

As a proportion of POLLUTION OF THE EARTH, Man takes THIRD PLACE, behind burning forests, rotting tundra, farting animals, and ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ACTIVE VOLCANOES.





When the air is less than fully saturated (mostly) the contrails are slowly reabsorbed. When the air is warm and quite dry (typically like a warm summer’s day low down in the troposphere) you cannot see contrails at all – the steam is dissolved into the air before it gets to form the tiny ice crystals that the “vapor” clouds are made of.
Contrails are also formed inside the wing-tip vortices of tightly-banking fighter planes, and you can frequently see landing aircraft trailing long ribbons of vortices from the outside tips of their flaps on wet days. These are identical to the clear approach cone of a descending tornado: the high vacuum rapidly cools the water vapor in the air, causing it to condense into very fine droplets.


Hi 4,

There are possibly more explanations than the one I give now, so it is important for you to think around the problem and discover others.

The stratosphere is made of transparent ribbon-like layers, typically like large slow-moving rivers. They are flowing OVER the troposphere, which is the Earth’s boundary layer and is around five miles deep.

In the troposphere (which is warmed from below by the ground) you have invisible thermals which rise about a mile before they form CUMULUS clouds. As these rise and cool by ADIABATIC EXPANSION, they condense their water vapor into first water, then ice. Because they are dumping water and gaining buoyancy, their rise is like a slow explosion, and they PUSH UP against the stratosphere, RAISING IT, sometimes by a thousand feet or so.

The transparent stratospheric layers don’t “mind” being lifted, and for a while compensate for their “surprise cooling” by becoming MORE HUMID. On occasion you can see STRATUS forming ABOVE a CUMULONIMBUS by stratospheric displacement. This happens WHEN the humidity is forced ABOVE 100% – if there’s something for the water vapor droplets to nucleate upon. Otherwise the layers go to a SUPERSATURATED condition – and remain transparent.


So along comes a plane and contrail. (A twin jet passenger plane leaves TWO trails from its engines, but they rapidly become ONE as they are gathered up in the plane’s MASSIVE WAVE VORTEX). That vortex is like a giant SMOKE RING pulled out along the plane’s course. Another way of looking at it is as TWO rotating “cylinders” geared together by friction. There’s a LOT of energy there: it corresponds to the main part of the DRAG that the engines are working to overcome for straight and level flight. Light aircraft have been brought down by the wave vortex of a jumbo jet FIVE MILES away.


THAT is the MIXING ENERGY that causes the layer to fill with cloud. If the layer is SUPERSATURATED, even MORE ice condenses upon it (it can increase its weight A THOUSAND-FOLD OR EVEN MORE) and parts of it will FALL, which is why you sometimes see PENDULES and VIRGA as well.

These are all NATURAL PHYSICAL PROCESSES. They are random and fascinating, just as are waves breaking on a sea shore. But they ARE natural…

PS – A great deal of insight may be obtained by scouring YT for Atom-bomb explosions. Here you’ll see pressure waves, rapidly-forming cirrus and many other temporary effects as a huge point source of high energy is released and the cloud punches its way through the troposphere, BEYOND the stratosphere, into the ionosphere.



A New Wave Conspiracy

It’s a brave new world…. with YouTube COMMENTS!

the powers that be (world leaders) are shape shifting reptilians who want to kill us all slowly. they practice human sacrifice and start all the worlds wars. they also want to keep the fish from seeing planet x which is heading towards earth and will wipe out most of us on or before december 2012! 11 onoes!

Your joking right? You cant possibly be this stupid.

its called the US govt….. not like police and all that good stuff but all these secret organizations that do stuff while the media distracts you with bullcrap like the awful “swine flu” which was no different than the regular flu just in a different time or year 😛

why would they just spray chemicals into the water, thats just stupid

its called depopulation.. ask the WWF.. look up ‘eugenics’ watch ‘aerosol crimes’

Dont listen to the retards and morons here, you are right to not believe this complete BS.

2:09 FOOT

209 FOOT 209 FOOT 209 FOOT

Very funny, but chemtrails are real. hold in mind, that contrails need temperatures below -40degreee Celsius and know that the temperature falls 6.5 degree Celsius with every kilometer high – and now look up on a hot summerday, is the plain with its long trail far away enough?

WRONG! I guess you think that as you look at the sky, the layering is all uniform. You don’t understand that there are pockets of warm and cold air floating through the layers. This explains the start/stop trails also. But go ahead, PRETEND that you understand your own atmosphere, just as all chemtards do, Please educate yourself on the facts. “Chemtrails” are a myth that stupid people fall for.

pockets of warm and cold air? Entropy! – in heaven we may believe all …? What`s about the fact, that long white, persistent trails are connected to political systems?

Keep telling yourself that! I laugh at you paranoid morons. You are living in fear of lines of frozen water vapor while connecting them (for no reason) to “political systems”. It doesn’t get any more pathetic than that. Don’t worry, I’m not going to try to talk you out of your beliefs. I like the comedy.

search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one. Are the people in these countries immune to conspiracy theories?

“search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one”. Because they aren’t STUPID. Let’s face the reality here. Neither one of us has a snowballs chance in hell of convincing the other that we are right. I’m cool with that! If you want to believe in bullshit about “chemicals” in these trails, (regardless of a COMPLETE lack of evidence) GO FOR IT! But don’t waste your time trying to convince me. I will NEVER believe in “chemtrails”. I understand the scientific explanation too well to be suckered into believing such bullshit.

Regardless of whether or not you are correct, you are true to your name, as you certainly are a shill.


I think your going for PLANE not plain, guess that’s shows the intelligence of the people that believe this shit. You honestly think that in every case, every kilometer high you go that the temp changes by exactly 6.5 degrees? You are a moron.

Thank you to correct my bad english – you understand what i mean. The 6.5 degrees per kilometer you may google. Just type in: “temperature flight high” or so. Compare several results.

First the air, now our water. What’s next, chemtrails on our land!

Well, I’m convinced. You had me at “shocking”.

Really? This is so stupid… And if they were, what would be the purpose?

That’s exactly what people say about chemtrails. Geez, you wouldn’t recognize a parody if it took a crap on your head.

control of water sources

To kill you.

lol. I like it.

What about the bali pattern?

This is true. google mkultra. The aluminium nanofibres allow Haarp to control individual sheeple like puppets. The nanotechnology is programmed to crawl inside the brain. That’s why alzheimers folk have aluminium plaques in their brain. They were the first test subjects of the technology. That’s what the psychotronic weapons mentioned in kucinich bill allow.. remote mind control of human beings. Now they are even spreading it into our water supply and fish we eat. Fish are called brain food!!!!

lol nice vid

haha, this is completely ridiculous. Is this a joke?

these chemtrails are out of order, and now there doing this to our water.. this is a clear sighn of the NWO and how there making us drink there chems, swim in there chems, fact the NWO have reserves of water in the south and north poles.. FACT chem trails are real. This is also a clear sighn that NWO are trying to get our water ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. FACT- they been spraying the skys for a long time to get us ready so the reptilian’s can breath in our atmosphear, drink our water.. the proof is in the pyramid’s.. do a search in google about retilians and the pyamids also pyamids being in water.. FACT the NWO are close to there goal. look at 1:30 to 1:34 in this documentry , you can see where they are pumping the chems from hidden under ground pumping stations, proberly run by the NWO and AL Gore .. FACT- Al Gore is for global warming because he gets paid big time by the NWO whitch he works for, FACT- the new world order are getting (our) planet ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. and this means warming the planet up, so the reptilians will be comfortable.

Now they are finding lots of mercury in fish like tuna and dolphin and sword that we swallow. Not just aluminum. Guess what mecury is.. A metal, and it is even used in switches and conducts electricity. That means the seaspraying could be spreading mercury to get in our food and brains. If there is electrical switch metal in our brain they could control it and switch things off and on with radio without us knowing anything

FACT : You have to wear aluminium foil helmets and your brain will survive.

i have just put in an aluminium foil liner in my motorcycle helmet will that work garbas?

shoot chem trail planes on sight!!!



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Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 



 Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.

I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I’m entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.


Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn’t been written by the CIA or FBI.

Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.

At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed “experts” because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.

When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.

As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.

Read my blog… 


JEFFLETTIS“retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you’ll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail” – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU’RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!

bonkers21 LIES, DAMNED LIES,


Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.

Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History

George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
“Creation science” disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these “secrets”? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.

This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.

We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.

Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.

Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.

I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his “doubts” about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: “Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn’t generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that.” The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. “You’re right,” they said. “It did seem strange…”

Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.

The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.

The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. “Expert testimony” is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.

Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy’s government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: “I think it is possible.”

Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed “without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services”. Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to “the myth of the Jews’ massacre”.

In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: “The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics.”

We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other’s fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other’s eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.

In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a “man-made Pentagon genocide”, that Pope Paul VI “was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978”, that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.

Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.

But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.

The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.

Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and “superfoods” that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.

Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.

The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.

But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.

These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.

Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that “the British Government was involved in some way” with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.

The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.

‘Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History’ by Damian Thompson 



“Please quote any “lie” I have mentioned to you” OK, WILL DO

“The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees” – FALSE
“Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions” – FALSE
“you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails” – LIE
“no credentials” – LIE
“are a government debunker” – LIE
“unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue” – LIE
“your spam postings” – LIE
“over and over you continue to waste space” – LIE
“you offer no information” – LIE
“Post after post you avoid this”
“with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect” – LIE
“You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish” – LIE
“You must dance because you sure dance around the issue” – LIE
“your time wasting typing” – LIE
“all you discuss is how a cloud forms” – LIE
“doesn’t have the guts to do the real science” – LIE
“you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn’t” – LIE
“no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails” – LIE
“so called experience” – LIE
“Useless posting and disinformation” – LIE
“of a so called engineer” – LIE
“I have made no claim of any lethal status” – IMPLICIT LIE
“you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts” – LIE
“sham” – LIElies

That’s TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer. 


there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work. 


This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.

It’s analogous…

Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.


Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban. 


email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don’t relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?

I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven’t responded.

Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for “chemtrails”, it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.

You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.

Aerosol “sprays” may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only “aerosol sprays” that exist.

I am glad that you think that “almost all” of my “posts on the subject are true”. Which posts do you think are NOT?

It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.

Get real. I’m living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn’t strike the individual as hard as it does in the “temperate zone”, and I just get by.

The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.

Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date. 


You’re looking at WATER…

Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.

1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable. 


“The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.

You’ll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly.”

Bless him… he toned his “probability” down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :


Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth’s atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That’s ALL! 


Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)

Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don’t know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).

As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN’T looking: it’s called the “observer effect”. The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.

Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.

The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth’s surface.

So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.

In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That’s 6% of the whole.

Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT. 


Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.

Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that’s all.

Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…

I have two friends with interesting stories…

The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn’t once…

The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council’s claims otherwise. He HASN’T been bothered by authorities: he’s kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…

Try this Vaughan-Williams’ composition – he’s a Welshman like me.

We are a more Latin race than you Saxons… 


“I’ve heard you’ve gotten acquainted with JP” – much to my surprise, yes

“I’m Marius” – and I’m Tony

“Nice to meet you” – hmm. We’re not “meeting”. Meeting would be better…

“He told me you were well worth the talk” – How does he know?

“In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots” – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.

“I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories” – me too. JFK is reason enough.

“I’m having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies” – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I’d never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.


The Bard of Ely - he's green but he ain't mean...

Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I’d JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…

“I’ve barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?” NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I’ve heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.

“Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? “let’s jump on the conspiracy wave”-thing?” – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don’t do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn’t an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.

“Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?” – It’s 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)

“I’m from Norway, myself. It’s nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million” – half that here

“Have a nice day!” – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.


(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author’s name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he’s more flattered than offended. )


“They’re made out of meat.”


Meat. They’re made out of meat.”


“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So … what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal!  Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”


“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …”

Director: Stephen O’Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds

westward view just before sunset at Las Americas