JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Facts and “Chemtrail” Fictions

Posts Tagged ‘analysis

Another Waste of Time

with 9 comments

PAGE CONTENTS

ANOTHER WASTE OF TIME – ANDREW JOHNSON – APPARENTLY NOT – ARESOLS – JUMBO  FLAME-OUT – BAD SCIENCE

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

ANOTHER WASTE OF TIME

iao-logo

This technically isn’t “chemtrailer” material, but is thoroughly representative of one the “chemtrail” movement’s underlying religious “Ultimate Sacred Postulates”, which is that of “any human government is the work of the Devil, and no good will come of it, and there is no more to think about.”

Unameitltd’s preamble to his videoclip entitled (sic) “Bush’s CIA illegally spys on youtube & myspace users” goes: “CIA publically admits in its pdf document it spys on Americans “citizen media” sites like youtube & myspace. here is their document http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/naquin.pdf”  (I must admit that spelling mistakes make me tense, for they always precede other mistakes!)

jazzroc
Another waste of time…

unameitltd
amazing how many people will defend CIA illegal domestic spying.

jazzroc
Looking at open source material is BY DEFINITION not spying. They have as much right to look at YouTube as YOU do. All activity on YT is PUBLIC. You must be crazy, or uneducated, or BOTH.

unameitltd
Open souce material isnt spying if members of the public do it. However, government is bound by the 4th admendment and needs probable cause and a warrant when their law enforcement INTENT is to look for criminallity. The CIA is banned by law from domestic spying.

jazzroc
If criminality arises in plain view it is the moral duty for ANYONE to do something about it, including YOU, and including a CIA spook (who is ALSO a “member of the public”). What you suggest is a COMPLETE ABSURDITY. Go boil your head…

unameitltd
A CIA spook on the job IS NOT a member of the public, when at work, on a government computer, they are agents of the US government banned by law from ANY spying on Americians. CIA employees may not legally spy on any american, WHAT PART OF THAT DONT U GET?

jazzroc
The illogical part that you suggest. Are you suggesting that BECAUSE someone works for the CIA he is AUTOMATICALLY unable to use YouTube? Since when EXACTLY did PUBLIC mean PRIVATE? Keep your head in that saucepan…

sauce

  

ANDREW JOHNSON

His website “Check the Evidence

This a hard-working man. Grade A for effort. A pleasure to correspond with, too, at least at first. He holds the classic delusion, but is great on getting evidence. His photographs are of a very high standard. He simply falls down when he attempts to interpret the evidence he so patiently collects. One day, I hope, he will realize his true potential. In the meanwhile it really is such a shame…

Hi – just picking through the site. Wave trails are a natural phenomenon. So are the little downward puffs (great pictures), which are caused by ice accretion, increasing the weight, causing a downward acceleration. This entrains the air. Sometimes you see it happen inside cirrostratus and a “hole” opens in the cloud. A sunset event, quite often, as the dimming sunlight allows the air to cool and bring it closer to supersaturation.

No evidence to back up your assertions. Please send peer-reviewed reference for the persistence of trails for specifically > 2mins (with named and dated case studies and specific atmospheric measurements at the time). Also, list flight details of flights in the case study you are quoting (whether they are test flights, military flights or ordinary civilian flights).

Haha. Very funny. Shirty, eh? http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf takes care of the nature of contrail deposition, amounts, and quantities over time, and even progression of crystal aggregation. This is the one that tells you, but not directly, that a jumbo can lay down 80,000 tons of ice in six hours of flight…da, da!
Not even NASA would have timed, located and identified the particular aircraft, so I assume from your snitty response you’re going to dismiss it. I’m off to research on your behalf, (seeing that you seem unable) any real findings on fallstreaks and virga. (I’ll give you a tip – always exclude “chemtrails” in your searches if you would like results without speculation or lies in them.)

Google Search Results 1 – 5 out of 645 for “paper” “aviation” “saturated” “atmosphere” “contrails” “-chemtrails” “-aerosols” – Dec 19th 2008.
http://students.ou.edu/J/Thomas.A.Jones-1/contrail.html
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=48191
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3101/is_3_54/ai_n29372921
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0469/15/2/pdf/i1520-0469-15-2-149.pdf
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a778783829~db=all
I’ll leave you to chase the rest of the 640 results.

418843E

“Hole punch”, “fallstreak” clouds with their associated virga, don’t seem to have made it into major scientific research, but there are a few informed quotes about, which, strangely, agree with my analysis. However no flight numbers are assigned to clouds.

419240E

Google Search Results 1 – 3 out of 10 for “hole” “punch” “clouds” “fallstreak” “research” “paper” “-chemtrails” – Mar 31st 2009.
www.scribd.com/doc/9841727/Essentials-Of-Meteorology
www.uq.edu.au/_School_Science_Lessons/UNPh37.html
www.met.rdg.ac.uk/bl_met/papers/Wood&Harrison09_ASE.pdf
Now apply these references to your double standards. I’m only doing this because you haven’t read my blog.

grid1

"grid" of trails over AJ's house

 re: http://www.pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf

Thanks – have flicked through the paper and when time will respond with the problems in it. A very quick look suggests they have taken some data – then not really explained the mechanism as to how “condensation” can last that long – though they have put a couple of nice equations in and stuff (it’s what scientists do to comfort themselves when they don’t know what they’re dealing with).
(NO. That isn’t true at all. Scientific papers are written assuming that the reader understands basic physical science. Such a reader would KNOW that ambient vapor pressure prevents further sublimation of the ice to vapor, and EQUILIBRIUM is reached.

It’s what scientists do to comfort themselves when they don’t know what they’re dealing with.”

NO. That’s what YOU write when YOU don’t know what you’re dealing with.)

But anyway this one looks better than Ulrich Schumann’s report, as it has more raw data in it. For the moment, I refer to my previous communications about the grid over my house and how no one could give me the flight numbers. Official responses are on my website – but you seem unable to research them….
I will maybe try to contact the NASA authors and ask them how to find out about my grid – and why these trails have gaps in them etc. Perhaps they’ll also be able to explain to me the movements of Hurricane Erin around the time of 9/11 – perhaps they will be coincidence theorists…
Anyway, can you explain this formation for me please:

 http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=183&Itemid=50

The blue plane one is quite interesting – as the plane is almost certainly below 28,000 feet. A retired Naval Officer reported to me last week how he measured the height of several aircraft as approximately 8,000 feet (using the size of the aircraft and graticule measurements) and making trails. How is this possible? I will post this data when I have it nailed down more.
Would you like to see my photo of a trail in cumulus cloud (in an overcast sky) – probably at about 8,000 feet or so? Taken in Feb. On Sunday I was out for about 2 hours and saw 2 trails – beautiful day. Av ground temp was about 10 or 12C. This morning in 5 minutes, I saw about 20 as I was going to the train station… it was about the was about the same temp in the morning…  Oh dear – looks like NASA is not telling us the truth (remember the mars photos you looked at…?)

“will respond with the problems in it.”
Well, it’s very confident of you to suppose there are problems with it at all.

“A very quick look suggests they have taken some data – then not really explained the mechanism as to how “condensation” can last that long – though they have put a couple of nice equations in and stuff (it’s what scientists do to comfort themselves when they don’t know what they’re dealing with).”
Well we all have our comfort zones. Condensation can be perfectly permanent at 100% saturation. It makes me wonder if you understand the technical term “equilibrium”. You haven’t coped with condensation yet. You should look at a Wilson Cloud Chamber. WIKI it.

cloudchamber

Wilson Cloud Chamber - AJ

 Re NASA paper – another note. All references which refer to contrails, except 1, are post 1994 (and I think post 1996). I found the 1972 paper and it’s an interesting read. I might be able to put together another article to clarify further the misapprehensions that you and many other scientists seem to be labouring under – and the staggering assumptions you repeatedly reel off as if they are fact.

“They forgot to report a Cat 5 hurricane”. Classic – that’s super. re this: “We obviously perceive things very differently from each other. How do you suppose I’ve conducted a career in industrial engineering design with perceptual deficiencies with respect to analyzing space and dynamics?”

 Yes – not much point in continuing – when you brush off grids of air craft trails and assume flight paths cross – but provide no evidence. Anyway, how do you suppose I’ve conducted a career in software engineering and software design and education with perceptual deficiencies with respect to analyzing data and developing solutions to engineering problems?

I liked your “shadow of a contrail” – highly entertaining.

Write to NASA and tell them what you think about the dome photos and sending a rover etc – see what response you get. Oddly, then, we share a similar perception about this dome. So why the difference between that and aircraft grids – they’re both “spatial awareness” related aren’t they?

I wrote to the one of the Mars Express team members and they showed little interest. And you didn’t answer why there was such a difference between the USGS and MSSS versions. 

aero

aerodynamic and engine contrail - AJ

 “clarify further the misapprehensions that you and many other scientists seem to be labouring under – and the staggering assumptions you repeatedly reel off as if they are fact”

They are fact. Perhaps you haven’t operated a Wilson Cloud chamber, run a gas turbine on a test bed, operated a wind tunnel. Water has several quite unusual properties. In fact they’re almost unique. Superheating and supercooling, latent heats of melting and vaporizarion, a specific heat eighty times that of metals.
The Earth’s atmosphere has some unique properties which you haven’t seen fit to acknowledge either, possibly because you remain unaware of them in spite of having had them pointed out to you.
With respect to condensation, I will reiterate to you that it cannot take place even when the atmosphere is in a stable supersaturated state until some “foreign” stimulus initiates it. Which is why an airplane flying through it may trigger a condensation trail. When the atmosphere is in such a stable supersaturated condition it is by definition PERFECTLY PURE: there is not one iota of impurity within it. The condensation clouds start initially as microscopically-fine crystals (so fine as to exhibit diffractive properties) but grow rapidly by progressively-accelerating accretion. Their weight/surface area ratio increases, and their rate of falling does so also. This progressive downward acceleration causes “pendules” (equispaced artificial “virga”) to form in trails. The exhaust gas particulate count greatly exceeds the number of ice condensate crystals that form from the combusted fuel alone, and up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES AS MUCH ICE may be precipitated at the same time. This is why I’m telling you that a single trans-USA jumbo flight may put EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS OF ICE into the sky.

circle1

persistent trail of circling airplane beneath temporary trail - AJ

 “‘They forgot to report a Cat 5 hurricane’. Classic – that’s super.”
They also left the Eastern seaboard defended by fourteeen fighters which they misdirected elsewhere. That was super, too.

The direction that a hurricane takes is uniquely dependent upon its heat uptake from the sea. The amount of heat it can steal from the sea is equivalent to a 100 megaton thermonuclear weapon, so any unsubtle inferring that the PTB somehow redirected it will earn you my most ribald scorn…

“you brush off grids of air craft trails and assume flight paths cross – but provide no evidence.”
For your information the Earth is an oblate spheroid. Its rotation leaves one with the mistaken impression that the Sun goes round the Earth. If you think the Earth is flat, and the Sun goes round the Earth, why should I “provide evidence”? If you can’t understand “grids” why should I care? Flight paths cross at different heights. That’s what Air Traffic Control is all about. I’ve conducted this same conversation with hundreds over the years. Some people just can’t get it. Try not to be one of them.

“Anyway, how do you suppose I’ve conducted a career in software engineering and software design and education with perceptual deficiencies with respect to analyzing data and developing solutions to engineering problems?”
Extremely badly, by the sound of it. I never had time to pursue chimaeras as you do. Now YOU are my “chimaera”.

“I liked your “shadow of a contrail” – highly entertaining.”
I’ve seen many. Your perception isn’t good. Visit http://www.atoptics.com 

A complete understanding of this very good website will do you WONDERS.

A vry non-intuitive crepuscular shadow

A very non-intuitive crepuscular shadow!

“Write to NASA and tell them what you think about the dome photos and sending a rover etc – see what response you get.”
No. I wouldn’t want to be such a dick. I’ll wait until a rover DOES visit the area.

“Oddly, then, we share a similar perception about this dome.”
Well, it DOES look remarkably like a dome. This info’s at least five years old, and I was on top of it at the time. The difference is that I have made mistakes about such “sure things” in the past. They’re in YOUR present. I’m just trying to prevent you from wasting your time here.

So why the difference between that and aircraft grids – they’re both “spatial awareness” related aren’t they?
Well, “looking remarkably like” isn’t BEING. I’ve watched progressive satellite pictures of trails from above. It’s even MORE obvious you’re looking at shuttle flights, in a prevailing wind. You can also see the effects of the moving belts of humid air in the stratosphere which are enabling these trails.

“I wrote to the one of the Mars Express team members and they showed little interest.”
You’re going to sound like a nut even if your interest is sincere. They’re busy, and you’re MAD. (So to speak.)

“And you didn’t answer why there was such a difference between the USGS and MSSS versions.”
Well, it’s a little odd. I see they’re marked as erroneous. That probably means they discard them from run-of-the-mill analysis. Somebody has obviously come along, seen the artefacts, had a go at cleaning them up, thought “****it!”, and discarded the attempt, thinking “There are errors here already”.
Then patient, assiduous, (dare I suggest it?) paranoid people like you come along, find these bits of wreckage, and attempt to “blow them up” as “things NASA doesn’t want you to know“. What utter crap. You seem like a nice guy. Concentrate on REAL issues.

cloud4

“how is the cloud chamber analogy relevant”
It demonstrates the EXACT MECHANISM by which contrails occur.

“the conditions in question are totally different”
The conditions in question apply exactly. Overall pressure has nothing to do with the phenomenon.

“deadly cosmic rays or radiation from the earth”
Will also produce fine lines of condensate through a saturated sky. These are very fine and disperse instantly.

“Flight data for the grids please”
Do it yourself. Superimpose crossing flight routes from Flight Explorer upon the prevailing wind direction and produce yourself a spiderweb of “grids”.

“thanks for the “new leads” so that I can build up even more powerful data sets and arguments”
Data is not much use to someone whose powers of interpretation are poor. You bore easily. Thanks for your very excellent images.

PS. I have just read through some of your correspondence. It has become quite obvious to me that anything I might say to you has already been said to you by others equally qualified, and that it was a total waste of time beginning a dialogue with you in the first place.
To have a facility with science means being able to understand and interpret the data you gather. It is plain from your failure to understand the use of the word “may”, for instance, that it is in the ability to interpret you are somewhat lacking. But there are many other examples here.
People may pass exams in science (especially these days) without possessing the ability to conduct it, especially as it isn’t easy to examine someone for interpretive ability. The possession of fact concerning a matter of science is quite subservient to the possession of this power to INTERPRET. This power advances science. When this occurs to you, I would like to be a fly on the wall…
It will one day, for you are a hard-working individual.

 All very well – but no one in the UK can give me the flight numbers for the day of the grids – that’s official. You have focused your attention on me as if I am “a lone voice” – I am not. Take a look at Rosalind Peterson’s site for example, California Skywatch – she worked for the US Govt.

www.californiaskywatch.com

Cliff Carnicom did the same.

www.carnicom.com

Deliberate misinformation is being promulgated by some people who should know better (Ted Tweitmeyer claimed a refuelling pod on a plane was a chemtrail sprayer – he runs a website called Data4science).

http://www.data4science.net/

http://www.rense.com/general81/ddthr.htm

20 people (some of whom I have never met) wanted to countersign my report when I’d compiled it. Why? Probably because they regard my interpretation of the raw data as more correct than yours and those officials who claim to know all about what is going on in our skies. None of them, when given the opportunity, have been able to provide the basic data I asked for.

None of them have sufficiently explained the video I sent you with the chemtrail and the contrail in the same part of the sky on the same day, at the same time. It is precisely these sorts of scenarios which are missing from that NASA study you sent (and the others I have looked at).

It is precisely the interesting and unexplained data on Mars which is ignored or ridiculed by those who are paid to investigate such. It is precisely the hexagonal craters on Iapetus that are ignored and glossed over. It is precisely the hexagonal pattern in the atmosphere of Saturn that is ignored and overlooked as some kind of irrelevance.

Studying these patterns – and those in the 9/11 data – along with former Professor of Mechanical Engineering Dr Judy Wood have lead me to a new understanding of the world we are enslaved in. Some people find the cage more appealing than the universe outside the cage – that’s up to them to live in it if they wish. The truth has indeed pissed me off, but it has also set me free and I am working hard to show others were the weak points in the cage bars are (there are many) and they can break them if they wish – or at least yank and rattle them.

Here’s a saying I coined: “By ignoring any amount of data/evidence, it is possible to come to any desired conclusion. However, the value of such a conclusion will be inversely proportional to the amount of evidence ignored.”

response

“All very well – but no one in the UK can give me the flight numbers for the day of the grids – that’s official.”
I dare say they simply didn’t believe the effort justified the results. You must be aware of the vast numbers of crossing flight routes and flights  involved. And that the flight control system is primarily concerned with real-time control. It must store records, that’s true. But to dig them out simply because an inquirer cannot comprehend how grid patterns may occur – is a waste of time.

“You have focused your attention on me as if I am “a lone voice” – I am not. Take a look at Rosalind Peterson’s site for example, California Skywatch -she worked for the US Govt.”
And I for the British. I have heard and seen some of her reasoning. I disagree with her too.

“Cliff Carnicom did the same.”
You really don’t read the work of people that disagree with you, do you?

“Ted Tweitmeyer claimed a refuelling pod on a plane was a chemtrail sprayer – he runs a website called Data4science.”
He too gets a mentch on my blog.

“20 people (some of whom I have never met) wanted to countersign my report when I’d compiled it. Why? Probably because they regard my interpretation of the raw data as more correct than yours and those officials who claim to know all about what is going on in our skies. None of them, when given the opportunity, have been able to provide the basic data I asked for.”
It doesn’t surprise me that others also misinterpret data as you do. However a check out with WIKI on TROPOSPHERE, TROPOPAUSE, STRATOSPHERE, (and all the links contained within) should be sufficient to cause you to reinterpret your data, IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS WRITTEN THERE.

“None of them have sufficiently explained the video I sent you with the chemtrail and the contrail in the same part of the sky on the same day, at the same time. It is precisely these sorts of scenarios which are missing from that NASA study you sent (and the others I have looked at).”
See above.

“It is precisely the interesting and unexplained data on Mars”
Covered.

“the hexagonal craters on Iapetus”
Natural. (Fingal’s Cave? There are hexagonal piles all over the Canary Isles, where I live.)

“hexagonal pattern in the atmosphere of Saturn”
A standing wave…

“we are enslaved in”
Woah!

“Some people find the cage more appealing”
Society’s dysfunctionality is moderated by Man’s mortality…

“The truth has set me free”
But untruth does the reverse.

“Here’s a saying I coined: ‘By ignoring any amount of data/evidence, it is possible to come to any desired conclusion. However, the value of such a conclusion will be inversely proportional to the amount of evidence ignored.'”
Amen. Here’s to irony…

another shadow of a trail by AJ

another shadow of a trail by AJ

Oops – you’re making false statements again… “I dare say they simply didn’t believe the effort justified the results. You must be aware of the vast numbers of crossing flight routes and flights  involved. And that the flight control system is primarily concerned with real-time control. It must store records, that’s true. But to dig them out simply because an inquirer cannot comprehend how grid patterns may occur – is a waste of time.”

I completed an FOI to the CAA and the Dept transport – the response was “We don’t have the information you asked for” it wasn’t “we aren’t able or can’t be bothered to get it for some schmuck from Borrowash”. This is why our interpretation differs – and it illustrates again your willingness to ignore published data…. Standing wave? Where is the scientific study that shows this happening in the atmosphere of large gas-giant planets. More really wild assumptions on your part. Amazing behaviour! So is Iapetus made of Basalt? Hmmm – NASA say it’s “mostly ice”. Of course, we can *assume* it happens to be basalt where the craters are. We can assume anything – so why have science and measurements – if we just assume we are right, we don’t ever need to measure anything. Anyway, your original blog title was most apt “Jazzroc vs Chemtrails”….yep – that was the size of it!!

Oops – you’re making false statements again…
I haven’t made any false statements yet, so there’s no “again”. Whatever you were told, they may have lied to you. Records must be kept in the event there is an incident. It could be that after six months, or some other arbitrary interval, they are then discarded, but until then they will be kept.

I completed an FOI to the CAA and the Dept transport – the response was “We don’t have the information you asked for” it wasn’t “we aren’t able or can’t be bothered to get it for some schmuck from Borrowash”.
LOL. Great figure of speech.  🙂

“This is why our interpretation differs – and it illustrates again your willingness to ignore published data…”
You ignore it all the time by your interpretive failure. I wouldn’t claim to be infallible either – I’m not – but I’m just a smidgeon ahead of you.

hexagon

“Standing wave? Where is the scientific study that shows this happening in the atmosphere of large gas-giant planets. More really wild assumptions on your part. Amazing behaviour!”
I don’t need a “scientific study”. My scientific understanding tells me it’s a standing wave because it’s a pattern I have seen before. Standing waves exist in all compressible atmospheres, unless they’re absolutely at rest. Scientific understanding may well be amazing behaviour to you if you don’t possess it. Have you checked Saturn references thoroughly? I dare say you have – it’s a useful tool, persistence. If nobody else has anything to say about it, then you heard it from JazzRoc first – it’s a STANDING WAVE.

“So is Iapetus made of Basalt? Hmmm – NASA say it’s “mostly ice”. Of course, we can *assume* it happens to be basalt where the craters are. We can assume anything – so why have science and measurements – if we just assume we are right, we don’t ever need to measure anything.”
No, I was simply arguing that hexagonal features are NATURAL. What those most exactly resemble are the regular hexagonal features and “sinkholes” found in permafrost on Earth.

tundra

“Anyway, your original blog title was most apt “Jazzroc vs Chemtrails”… yep – that was the size of it!!”
It IS about the size of it, exactly.

WIKI: “A persisting hexagonal wave pattern around the north polar vortex in the atmosphere at about 78°N was first noted in the Voyager images. Unlike the north pole, HST imaging of the south polar region indicates the presence of a jet stream, but no strong polar vortex nor any hexagonal standing wave.”

Shame. Someone beat me to it.

Here I quote the nub of Andrew’s difficulties:

Since contrail persistence requires at least ice saturation, a sky full of contrails but without natural cirrus shows that cases occur with humidity above ice-saturation but below the threshold for cirrus formation.

 Andrew’s reply to this is: “This is not an explanation – it is a statement that ‘something happens’. It says that trails can persist without supersaturation – so, supersaturation cannot be the sole explanation for the formation persistent trails. The phrase is really, again, saying ‘persistent trails form, but we don’t know why’.”

But the answer is simple: between normal (dry-ish) air and supersaturated air there is saturated air. This is QUITE SUFFICIENT to prevent the ice crystals of the trail from sublimating away. Somehow Andrew has forgotten this. His conviction (that the Powers That Be are nefarious) prevents him from seeing this. All he waits for is some apparent perceived inconsistency. Once he gets this, his fears are confirmed, and he closes down rational thought.

090427_cartoon_5_a14122_p465

It isn’t his only vice.

If I argue with him that it is only reasonable to suppose (for it is true) that crossing aircraft routes will produce “grids” in the sky on occasions, then he demands that I supply him with the SCHEDULING of these flights. It is as if I had become suddenly to him the REPRESENTATIVE of external officialdom, instead of a friendly stranger trying to give him good advice.

And then there is his petty-fogging “attention to detail”; adjusting the deckchairs on his Titanic by “counting” his “evidence”. He should learn to EVALUATE his evidence before counting it. Sadly, his skills there are lacking, and he lacks the means of countering that.

“Flight data for the grids please”

you didn’t answer why there was such a difference between the USGS and MSSS versions” 

Fallstreak Virga over my apartment, El Medano, Tenerife

Fallstreak Virga over my apartment, El Medano, Tenerife

APPARENTLY NOT

“Chemtrails have been controversial since 1999.”

In eight years SOMEBODY would have DIED! ….APPARENTLY NOT

A “chemtrail analyzed”, an “employee” infected? ….APPARENTLY NOT

“Chemtrail material” in crashed plane? ….APPARENTLY NOT

ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL? ….APPARENTLY NOT

ARESOLS

How old are you, sniker?

How did you escape Science class?

“sorry, but” – but nothing. You’re just plain sorry.

“if there was a layer of humidity the trail would not form!” – ALL AIR IS HUMID, SO WHAT YOU SAY IS BULLFEATHERS

“They only form above 30,000 feet or so where the humidity is low!” – Yep, you escaped. Stratospheric air (at MINUS FORTY degrees!) STILL contains moisture. It may even be SATURATED with water vapour, even though it contains LESS MOISTURE than tropospheric air. When it IS saturated, contrails PERSIST, and drift to form CIRRUS clouds.

“Aresols like barium” – Barium is an ELEMENT, not an ar****le. (Oh, I see you meant AEROSOL). It is an ALKALINE EARTH METAL. It is NOT an aerosol. The jet engine would GO OUT if barium (oxide) dust passed through it.

“a metallic salt can extract moisture from 30-40% humidity instead of the 70 for normal cloud formation!” – “Normal”? Tropospheric clouds? But we’re talking STRATOSPHERE mate if we’re talking about CT videos on YouTube. There’s been NO tropospheric trail recorded in YouTube, ever. And the word you never found is HYGROSCOPIC…

“Trails should form and dissipate or not form at all!” – No, it’s your THOUGHTS that should do all of that.

 

JUMBO FLAME-OUT DUE TO VOLCANIC DUST

 

BAD SCIENCE

Six months after checking ALL YouTube “Chemtrail” websites I have found NOT ONE IOTA OF PROOF regarding CHEMTRAILS.

They all think they’ve proved it because they TELL EACH OTHER that it’s so.

SEVENTY-THREE SITES have BLOCKED, “APPROVAL”(then none!) or DEACTIVATED comments, and have gone on to show PERFECTLY ORDINARY CONTRAILS, with witless comments which, apart from their abrogation of democratic accountability, DEMONSTRATE that they absolutely HAVEN’T A CLUE about ordinary CONTRAIL PROPAGATION.

I expected to find a THOROUGH STUDY of AIRPORT FACILITIES (after all, if they are SPRAYING stuff, you’d expect to find STUFF!)

WHITE materials would leave WHITE SPLASHES on AIRPORT TAXIWAYS.

TOXIC materials would give you a chance to see people wearing MASKS AND SUITS, special sealed TRUCKS, signs saying “HAZARD” – ALL SORTS OF STUFF.

It is often quite possible to walk up to aircraft and inspect them for nozzles, strange hatches, drips and stains. NO VIDEO has ever done this and made comparisons with easily-available external plans for almost every single type of aircraft.

I know that it’s a hard thing to do, but the ONLY WAY to PROVE such assertions is to FLY BEHIND A “CHEMTRAIL” AND SCOOP UP SOME FOR ANALYSIS. It should cost about $10000. Well that’s only $200 each for the RAMPANT HYPOCRITES I mention above.

Why haven’t they thought of this? I suggest it’s because they KNOW they’re onto a good wheeze. Thousands of eager terrified sheep are quite prepared to BELIEVE that the NWO is OUT TO GET THEM. WHAT A MARKET! IT’S OBVIOUS that these “people” are quite convinced that they are, indeed, EXPERTS!

They even insist that you mustn’t trust Science because it has been historically altered by the CIA! Well, that may do for the SHEEP, but it won’t do for ME.

Such a MUTILATION of TRUTH is harmful for everyone.

Now, the NWO may well be OUT TO GET US using FUNCTIONAL SCIENCE, for all I know. The ONLY WAY we can defend ourselves against such an onslaught is to use GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY, and TRUTH.

Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES….

spook1

Blathering

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PAGE CONTENTS

BLATHERING – BLOBLAW005 – BLUSTER – BOOBLUBE – BRITANNICA – BROKEN CONTRAILS – BUTT – CAPS

Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 

BLATHERING

grid

“those sky-grids” – you’re about to get the works on that from ME.

“scientific evidence proves that a great increase of planes cannot affect the upper stratosphere” – NO, IT DOESN’T AT ALL. Few aircraft fly in the UPPER stratosphere. They fly in the lower stratosphere, just above the tropopause. The stratosphere is easily affected by combustion exhaust water, because it is stable, and has only sublimation into water vapor, and the force of gravity upon the ice crystals, causing them to fall, as mechanisms for removal. Contrails spread in saturated or supersaturated conditions to cover the whole sky. What scientific evidence is this?

storm

“you’re implying that air-layers combine suitably within an hour” – stratospheric layers don’t combine at all, but they may be filled with ice crystals as the planes’ wave vortices stir the layer contents.

“50’s, 60’s and 70’s disseminated all over Britain (millions of ppl affected)” – YOU’RE MISTAKEN AGAIN. Didn’t you know that WATER, KILLED BACTERIA, and a PHOSPHORESCENT DYE are HARMLESS? Please refer to me the records indicating that millions of people were affected. And, anyway, wasn’t this to do with finding out how to combat Russian germ warfare attack? Before you make free with the FALSEHOODS you should look up contrailscience.com and find out how your blathering stands up to reality. And for a further perspective on Man versus Nature you could look up my blog on:

http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc

BLOBLAW005

I’ve debated the contrail vs. chemtrail theories with jazzroc for the past couple of months. I did present a well researched and thought out scientific argument to him. His response was to delete my comments from his weblog, and to block any comments I post.

That’s because:

a) you didn’t debate anything: you posted using an anonymous email address – once. That isn’t a debate. If you look in that inbox you’ll find letters from me still awaiting your response.

b) your research was poor and your science non-existent. There was nothing in your post which advanced anything. Except sophistry.

Contrails are known and measured as part of atmospheric science. It is “chemtrails” that is a theory.

What about the Bergeron-Findeisen theory? Can persistent contrails exist if the Bergeron-Findeisen theory were true?

If there ARE differing vapour pressure requirements for deposition of water onto either super-cooled droplets or ice crystals, then the Bergeron-Findeisen Theory is true, and the droplets will evaporate in favour of deposition onto the ice crystals. The evaporation will then raise the humidity, making it even more likely that the next aircraft will leave a permanent trail. Super-cooled droplets are produced aerodynamically over the wings in marginally-warmer conditions: the exhausts produce ice crystals at -40 or colder, which is the general rule over 30,000 feet.

But that makes no difference to the final outcome, which is that persistent contrails are clouds of ice crystals which cannot evaporate into the fully-saturated atmosphere which surrounds them.

Nor to the conclusions one can draw, which are:

a) that persistent trails are natural, and not the confirmation of “chemtrails”, and

b) all other “proofs” having been shown to be fraudulent, the case for “chemtrails” is non-existent.

Were you to study any physics at all, your “theory” would vanish, your “debate” disappear. 

BLUSTER

“tell not contrails” – NO YOU CANNOT. See below.

“My entire life this never happened” – It was happening BEFORE YOU WERE BORN.

“I watch planes/real contrails, and they disappear, but these chemtrails DO Not” – Your assumption is INCORRECT. Contrails CAN and DO persist in HUMID stratospheric conditions.

“only spray where the population lives” – Above every town is a RISING PLUME of HEAT and HUMIDITY. Contrails MAY persist in these plumes. Also you may care to check out satellite pictures from space, which show quite clearly that the trails form within humid atmospheric conditions.

“How stupid do they think people are?” – How stupid do you wish to remain?

“back and forth over the towns” – These are SEPARATE planes, each either COMING or GOING. No videos have ever shown a “spraying” plane circling to respray a town, because these aircraft are civil flights from one major airport to another.

“Why?” – Your answer’s above…

“targeting these areas/get the full benefit of the poisons” – JUST BULLSHIT AND BLUSTER (LIES). Just dial up a satellite view and you will see contrails wherever the atmosphere is moist. That is, randomly over land AND ocean, wherever the conditions are HUMID.

yourlungsglowlikeabeacon

 BOOBLUBE

It is YOU that has been handed a line – which you cannot handle.

Don’t send me any more “information”. I am a very fast reader and have read and seen everything you’ve seen.

You have a problem with reasoning. Any reasonable educated person would listen to Carnicom for about FIVE minutes, and then switch him off. The reason he would do that is that he breaks all the rules of journalism and science. Instead of supplying EVIDENCE and PROOF he makes further assertions, breaking the “legal” chain of evidence. If you cannot see that I am sorry for you, but I’m no longer prepared to help you.

What makes you think that airborne materials MUST have come from an airplane, for instance? Do you KNOW how far vapour trail materials DRIFT? I don’t even need a calculator to tell you – from an altitude of seven miles it’s going to be AT LEAST TWO HUNDRED MILES DOWNWIND.

What makes you think that as you read this, you are NOT ingesting pathogens and metals? I can tell you that, for sure, you ARE, AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INGESTING THEM. YOU ALWAYS WILL.

Your body is a DYNAMIC device, evolved over 4 billion years to COPE with such stresses. It WILL eliminate those metals AND KILL those pathogens.

germs

It’s just a question of degree…

You lack the scientific understanding to prevent you from freely believing the UNBELIEVABLE.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

“Namely, they persist for hours (eventually turning into a haze that doesn’t go away”

They’re in the stratosphere. That is, above five miles UP, about a fifth of atmospheric pressure, as warm as -40 deg C, maybe as cold as -80 deg, which is colder than the surface of Mars.

mars

Passing planes laying 100lb of ICE per mile will SOON saturate the stratospheric layer they are in. Once that happens, the ice of the trail CANNOT SUBLIME ANY MORE INTO WATER VAPOUR. It MUST remain. It WILL persist for hours. The only reason it doesn’t persist for EVER, is that it is HEAVY, and FALLING.

“water doesn’t act that way” -You are WRONG. Water in the stratosphere is ICE. Not ice like in your fridge, more like finely powdered GLASS. I’ve lived in Germany, and deep in the continental land mass the temperature can fall very low in winter. I have experienced -40 deg C, and let me tell you ICE ISN’T EVEN SLIPPERY AT -40 DEG C. It is HARD and it is DRY. Say you were in a balloon at 32,000 feet and an Airbus came just by you at 575mph.

chemtrailsfront

You’d be amazed at its speed, and also its colossal WAVE VORTEX, as it whirled the two trails around itself in two columns fifty yards across. The trail would sting your face like wind-whipped sand on a beach. Of course, your face would fall off with the intense cold as well…

“they are sprayed from unmarked aircraft” – WRONG AGAIN. They are marked, but the markings become invisible from the ground due to a phenomenon called “blue light scattering”. Had the plane been painted BLACK, from the ground you would see NO PLANE AT ALL

“they stop and start in a manner not consistent with normal contrail formation” – WRONG AGAIN. They start and stop PERFECTLY consistent with normal contrail formation. The trails are created in saturated or supersaturated air. The “inconsistency” is firmly in your understanding of the nature of the stratosphere.

Your mistake lies in assuming that these AIRS are DISTINGUISHABLE: they are NOT. All types of air are TRANSPARENT, get it? INVISIBLE! Hence a plane flying through dry air leaves no trail. It hits a humid area: it leaves a trail. Stop, start, stop, start. This can happen for miles: stratospheric layers frequently form ripples as a consequence of atmospheric compressibility following on downwind from upward ground projections such as ridges and mountains…

lenticularcloud

“photographed as not even coming from the engines” – That’s right. Either a) You don’t understand that the time taken for the exhaust to cool down from +1100 degrees to -40 degrees manifests itself as a GAP, or b) the plane has hit SUPERSATURATED air, when the WHOLE AIRFRAME sets a trail and the tightest vortices (wingtips, control surface ends) will cause the MOST ICE to get dumped.

“I don’t remember them as a child or teen” – I DO. I was always keen on aircraft, making them from the age of 7. Why would you? You wouldn’t be LOOKING for them. In our lifetime we’ve seen a TREMENDOUS increase in low-cost air travel, and a VERY RECENT increase in cheap videocams, and reduction in educational standards…

vcam

“the media will not talk about the issue” – They only talk about things that increase their sales. They also have good scientific advice which deters them from printing unconsidered rubbish. Living on the Spanish Canary Islands, I don’t read the media much…

“and some other reasons” – You better tell me what they are, for so far you have NOTHING… 

BRITANNICA

britannicaIt says IN THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA:

http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9074829 

Broken Contrails

from “Uncinus” of “Contrailscience”

Contrails are clouds made from water vapor that condenses then freezes behind a plane engine. Since the engines are on constantly, it seems a bit odd when you see contrails with gaps in them, or even contrails that stop and start. If the engine is pumping out a constant amount of water, then why is the trail not constant? This puzzle is sometimes seized on by people who think that persistent contrails are actually “chemtrails”, or some kind of deliberate spraying operation.

But it’s actually very simple. The amount of water in the exhaust is pretty constant, but the amount of moisture in the air is not. The humidity varies with altitude in the stratosphere, and a layer of low humidity can be sandwiched between two layers of high humidity. As a plane climbs or descends through this layer, then the trail will only form in the areas of high humidity, and so look like it was “switched off” in the area of low humidity.

You can get the same effect with temperature. A warm layer of air can actually lay on top of a colder layer in what is called an “inversion” (you’ll hear this on the weather sometimes, referred to as an “inversion layer”). When a plane flies through this inversion layer, the trail can be “broken”.

It’s not just climbing or descending flights either. The boundaries between these layers is not flat, and gravity waves or rising convection currents of air can create large volumes of air that differ in temperature and/or humidity from the neighboring air, and so can break (or make) the contrail when the plane flies through them.

Don’t take my word for it though. Do a Google search for “broken contrail” and you’ll find lots of examples, and similar explanations.

NOAA – “Occasionally a jet plane, especially if ascending or descending, will pass through a much drier or more moist layer of atmosphere which may result in a broken pattern to the contrail, with it appearing in segments rather than in one continuous plume.”

AirSpace Magazine – “If the contrail stops, then starts up again, creating a broken line, chances are the airplane flew through a dry patch.”

Doc Weather – “What is happening here is that warm air rising from the ground carries vast amounts of water vapor upwards into the highest levels of the atmosphere. This water vapor exists as massive, plumes of warm, moist air ascending to very high levels. When a rising plume reaches the upper atmosphere it condenses into high ice clouds known as cirrus or feather clouds. In the case of the jet contrail (condensation trail) in the first image, the condensing cloud formed where the aircraft passed through a rising plume of moist warm air. The air on either side of the plume was not sufficiently moist to support the formation of an enduring cloud. As a result the contrail only remained visible in the warm plume.”

brokentrails

Now study the pictures above. The one on the left was entitled “broken contrail”, the one on the right “broken chemtrail”. If you know anything about analyzing computer jpg files, you will discover the one on the right to be FAKED (even though a telephone wire appears to pass through the “gap” in the “trail”.

Interesting, isn’t it? The “broken contrail” is honest, the “broken chemtrail” fake… 

BUTT

Sniker, you don’t know the WHY so don’t tell me the HOW.

It’s a case of RELATIVE humidity and DEW POINT. HOT WATER VAPOUR, which is what “steam” is, can only MAKE UP the air’s humidity to its 100% RH level as it cools down. Beyond that it MUST form droplets of water or crystals of ice, depending on the air temperature.

In either case (troposphere or stratosphere) if the air doesn’t get to its 100% RH the water will evaporate or sublime into water vapour over a short period. Stratospheric air is MORE LIKELY to be saturated or supersaturated BECAUSE it is LAMINAR, whereas the troposphere is TURBULENT, being the BOUNDARY LAYER. Hence you sometimes get PERSISTENT TRAILS in the stratosphere.

Jets DO leave WATER contrails down below in humid 95%+ conditions where they occur (tropics mostly) but they are more difficult to see, and CT guys aren’t videoing there. There is a YT CT vid which clearly shows the APU (auxiliary power unit – all passenger planes have them) laying a faint trail (in Canada!), before it makes its stupid claim.

Clifford Carnicom forswore Science with his website. From his “USAF lies to America”, to his analysis (from the ground!) of a “chemtrail”, his site is a FARRAGO OF DECEIT. If you had ever made a study of LOGIC or ANALYSIS, you’d KNOW.

“just swipe your finger on random sufaces and hold up to sun and see the metal particals!” – You live in an INDUSTRIALIZED SOCIETY. You should expect CRAP in your air. Learn to spell. 

CAPS

Sorry to disappoint. Here goes:

“antagonistic to empire/super-state comprising pentagon/blah/nasa, why do you think population culling is off the table” – because while it may be possible to blow away a president, and even easy to blow away a nonentity, it becomes very much harder to blow away the vast majority. Wars are a mess, and the only quick and final war would be a nuclear spasm. Poisons and diseases are slow, and have poor coverage. Logistically they are impossible. Practically they don’t work because people can move! Angry people (the ones you’ve missed!) become ferocious opponents. Ask the Germans about the Poles. Talk to Americans about the Vietnamese. To Israeli Jews about Palestinians. The Kurds about Iraqis.

conspiracy_tot21

“why not read history as if you were not immune to it” – I have done. It’s the only way to develop an immunity.

“you are a pawn” – I may have been a pawn, but no longer. If necessary I shall simply sail away. If anyone interferes with me I shall interfere with them.

“the industrial age drawing to a close” – Give me strength! There is more industry now than there has ever been. Knowledge hasn’t drawn to a close. Ability hasn’t drawn to a close. Necessity is the mother of invention. Take a look at the Afghans. The Pacific Ring…   …China…

china

“new game in the offing” – Yeah, yeah. Robots blah blah. There’s a great lawnmower and a great vacuum cleaner. Get out the Gray Goo, let’s off the peeps. You haven’t a clue.

“much fewer pawns” – stop reading science fiction and take a look outside. Out, not up! Sorry about the missing caps.

pawn

Written by JazzRoc

November 14, 2008 at 1:00 am

Posted in Aviation, chemtrails, contrails, science, Truth

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