ISSUE (1) – ISSUE (2) – JAZZROC – TEXT FROM “SECRET” WEBSITE – JBREEZES – John Aytche (reprise)
Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
“Contrails were not an issue” – they NEVER WERE an issue. Your ignorance and your desire to propagate ignorance ARE the issue.
“Samples have been collected from rain and snow throughout America” – and will show samples of RAIN and SNOW.
“normal commercial craft a lot higher not leaving much of a contrail even while others leave the thick noduled classic chem trail” – is a TYPICAL EXAMPLE OF YOUR FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND THE WEATHER. The layered nature of the stratosphere presents different humidities and headings in every layer. And so the contrail behaves differently in each layer.
“they have been analyzed” – so BADLY as to NOT BE IN ANY WAY SCIENTIFIC.
“people like you” – you mean EDUCATED people who understand SCIENCE?
“we already know” – YES, THE JU-JU MAN TOLD YOU. More likely you entered “chemtrails” into your search engine and reconfirmed your prejudices.
“Commercial aircraft fly at 30-35k feet, the chems usually sprayed at 12-15k feet” – I haven’t seen a SINGLE VIDEO depicting such a thing ANYWHERE ON THIS SITE. This ASSERTION you make is full of FAULTY assumptions and calculations, for civil aircraft have lanes and levels they must adhere to, which they receive from air traffic control.
The OFFICIAL FACTS are these:
Contrails can remain visible for very long periods of time with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics.
Contrails can form many shapes as they are dispersed by horizontal and vertical wind shear.
Sunlight refracted or reflected from contrails can produce vibrant and eye-catching colors and patterns.
Observation and scientific analysis of contrails and their duration date back to at least 1953.
The National Airspace System of the United States is oriented in an east-west and north-south grid with aircraft flying at designated 2000 foot increments of elevation (1000 feet after the introduction of Reduced Vertical Separation Minima in 2002-2004).
Contrails formed by aircraft may appear to form a grid as the winds disperse the contrails.
More contrails are seen in recent years due to the growth in the civil aviation market.
“Smoke and Mirrors”
There are many ironies in this “chemtrail” issue. This one’s a beaut. It can be found (maybe!) here.
People with nothing better to do open their blogs, and to boost their self-importance, probably, gossip amongst each other and confabulate their “poison spray” stories as if totally unaware of the breathtaking social damage which may occur if other bad events concatenate. OK, maybe, in private emails, but obviously NOT OK as a web-wide transmission.
When brought up short by a question such as “Don’t you think that people that cause and assist powerfully emotive lies and false accusations to circulate within our society fit perfectly the description of fifth-column terrorists and may be subject to the attentions of the Patriot Act?”, such people consider they have been subject to some form of assault!
You know, “policemen are nasty people who assault criminals”! That’s me. I attack criminality. It’s the social duty of all of us, really – a part of growing up.
January 1, 2009 Bobbi Snow:
I live in Los Angeles. In March 2005 chemtrails began being sprayed over our neighborhoods, right after the heavy Winter/Spring rains stopped. All the plants on my deck were covered daily with an oily-sticky substance. I tried hosing it off, every evening, but eventually all the plants died, one by one. The water bowls we have out there for the squirrels & birds showed this same oily substance on chemtrail days. I had to change the bowls three times a day, when I was home. Lady Bugs and Honey bees were dropping dead all over the deck, on chemtrail days.
Seven months later I began to have severe digestive/stomach problems. I began feeling nauseated, and started losing weight. I’m down to seventy pounds now, and the specialists say they have no idea what’s wrong with me. I seem to have no cancer, at least none they can find… and on days when there are NO chemtrails in the skies, I eat normally; I just can’t gain any weight.
When I mentioned the coordination between the commencement of the chemtrails and my decline in good health a few months later, all the doctors acted like they thought I was CRAZY. (They’re all in their offices every day, and apparently never look out their windows and SEE these chemtrails!) But according to the head gastroenterologist at Cedars of Sinai, “business has been booming for the past couple of years!”
It doesn’t take a GENIUS to figure out that if the chemicals residue can kill plants and Lady Bugs and Honey Bees on my deck, it’s also getting into the water we drink, the soil in which our crops are grown, the food we eat, the air we breathe, the meats we buy…
I have written to the local meteorologists, UCLA, USC, the Los Angeles County Board of Health. I have never received a reply from any of them! But the one thing I have noticed is, during the past few months, the weather forecasters who are on early in the mornings refer to the up-coming chemtrails with the phrase, “Expect some high cirrus clouds during the day, but there should still be plenty of sunshine.” If they KNOW the chemtrails are going to be sprayed, then surely some of them have a idea as to their purpose, the chemicals in them, and which branch of our government is responsible for them.
Is this population control? Are the chemtrails making the pharmaceutical companies and physicians richer? And do SOME of the people have a pillthey are given that makes them immune to these adverse affects?
I’ve read about the analyses of some of the private testing that’s been made on the contents of these chemtrails. The chemicals discovered are KNOWN to cause digestive problems, allergies, skin rashes, breathing difficulties, and contain carcinogens. So WHY is our government allowing this to be done to the populations of so many different countries?
I would like to believe that eventually I will get better… but unless the chemtrails totally CEASE and never start up again, I think I will become just one more casualty in this War Against Humanity. I fear I will die in the not so distant future, never knowing why my tax dollars have been turned against honest, hard-working people who only want the best for themselves, their respective countries, and their future generations.
January 2, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Dear Bobbi, Thank you for writing – I am pulling my hair out with people who insist that either I am imagining it or I am misinformed, that they are“contrails” and no more. It is horrible, and I am in nowhere near the bad shape you are in due to this malfeasance – I have not gone to the lengths you have gone to get some answers, only to be met with either silence, or worse, that you are crazy.
Makes one want to tell the doctors who act as if you are crazy that their years of med school did not do much good, if you are so sick and they cannot figure it out.
I find it very interesting what you said about the morning news shows – I do not watch them, so have never heard the “forecast” you described above. That is downright creepy. The more I dig into this, the more disturbing it gets.
I agree with you – these are our tax dollars at work? Thanks a lot, folks.
I was with my husbands family yesterday for the traditional New Years Day meal, and I brought the subject up, as they had been over when i was feeling lousy, and the only person who was totally engrossed in the issue was my mother-in-law. She talked about the headaches she gets out of nowhere, but said she had never seen Chemtrails in their area. But then she answered herself, kind of chuckling, and said, “well, I never really look up into the sky that often.”
I have found that when people hear about it, after trying to come up with a reasonable explanation, they start gazing upwards much more often, and you find yourself with much agreement after a while.
However, that does not help the core problem – the folks in charge of this obvious mystery are not talking. What do we do?
I am going to write to the President-elect and ask about it, I will most likely get nowhere, but maybe something will happen. I did hear that when Bill Clinton was president, he started to address Chemtrails, then abruptly stopped. So……
If you go to the link I posted, Chemtrail Data, there is a lot of interesting information, and it seems to be a bit of a community – I think you should share your story with them. There is an interesting little contraption that some people invented that they say wards off the bad effects of the Chemtrails, but I just found it. Not committing quite yet.
I DO lean towards one of the reasons for the spraying is to make the pharmaceutical companies more money – and I do wonder if population control is a part of it. It is horrifying to me that we human beings are viewed as “business” when we are sick, and that the head gastroenterologist at Cedars actually said that “Business has been booming in the last couple of years”. Utterly reprehensible.
I wish I had some answers, but I, like you, only have questions. I am so glad you posted, and I am hoping you get better – this is one of the worst stories I have heard. I am so sorry, and if I ever stumble across something that can repel the effects, I will contact you. Right now, all there is is the crystal/copper wire contraption you can find on the link above. It is not expensive, if you can afford it, why not give it a shot?
Take care, hang in there. Maybe this will be stopped with the new administration, if enough people start demanding it. Best, Kelly
P.S. I have a pilates/bodyband video that I work out to, it is set in a gorgeous outside setting, and as I was following it one day, I noticed a chemtrail in the video! How is that for ironic?
January 12, 2009 James Stafford: Have you made any progress on this?
January 21, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo: I’m working on it, Hi-may. By the way, you are not one of the “contrail” people that bugged me. I have been hearing it for years.
May 1, 2009 jazzroc:
The planes you see making trails are the same ones you catch to go on holiday. Their jet engines burn kerosine to produce forward thrust, and leave in their wake carbon dioxide (the same as you exhale) and water (as you do too). This water turns to ice in a fraction of a second, and if the stratosphere (seven miles up) is dry, then the ice slowly sublimes to water vapor and appears to disappear.
If, on the other hand, the stratosphere is humid, then the ice is no longer able to sublime away, and remains, falling at less than a meter per second.
The average speed of the stratosphere over your head is sixty miles per hour, and if the ice were to continue to fall all the way down (which it never does because the contrail ice will inevitably fall into drier layers of the stratosphere and then sublime there), it would land two hundred miles away from you some three hours later.
This makes it very unlikely, does it not, that anything released by aircraft seven miles overhead had anything to do with your sickness…
Whatever illness you suffered could have been an infection breathed upon you by another person, or you could have eaten or drunk something toxic or infectious, or it could be a combination of pollen and exhaust fumes which made you ill.
Did this happen in December, when the cedar pollens are released? Somehow I bet it did, seeing as the word “cedar” crops up in your post.
June 5, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Hello jazzroc, and welcome! Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your comment. While I appreciate your thorough explanation of contrails, I am keenly aware of what makes up a contrail, and if you watch the sky long enough, you can clearly see the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail. The crisscross pattern that lingers in the sky for hours, for starters. Contrails dissipate quite quickly, where as chemtrails linger for hours, slowly spreading out until they manage to simulate some kind of odd cloud.
If regular airplanes were making those trails, there would be massive accidents in the sky – pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each others flight paths in such a fashion as the photo’s depict.
One day you will notice the difference. I, too, was completely skeptical when I first heard about this, then I started watching the sky.
The difference in contrails and chemtrails was so starkly different I was shocked that I had not noticed it before.
And a quick addendum – when Bill Clinton was President, this was an issue he was willing to talk about. This is not some crazy conspiracy theory, it is a fact. It just happens to be one that very few people talk about.
Thank you for visiting, different opinions are always welcome and encouraged as long as civility remains. Best, Kelly
June 5, 2009 jazzroc:
You say “I am keenly aware of what makes up a contrail”.
I beg to differ. You are NOT. My blog quite clearly demonstrates examples of contrails from the very brief to the very persistent. These were first recorded in 1921, and have been carefully quantified and written up in a stream of more than six hundred scientific papers since 1953 – all listed and mentioned in my blog. If you had read and understood them, you would NOT have written what you have just written.
“If you watch the sky long enough, you can clearly see the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.”
You might see the difference between a brief and a persistent contrail, but there is NO way you can honestly point at a persistent trail and say “there is a chemtrail”. It is a cloud of ice crystals almost identical to a natural cirrus cloud, whether it is persistent or not.
“The crisscross pattern that lingers in the sky for hours, for starters.”
Is merely the result of crossing shuttle routes at an angle to each other; the SAME TWO routes, but different aircraft. They may happen, say, at hourly intervals. The typical average speed of the stratosphere in which they fly is around 60 mph. The consequence is what you see.
“Contrails dissipate quite quickly, whereas chemtrails linger for hours, slowly spreading out until they manage to simulate some kind of odd cloud.”
This mantra is constantly repeated by chemtrailers. If you read the Encyclopedia Britannica entry you will find it to be INCORRECT. It states quite clearly that contrails persist when there are humid conditions in the stratosphere.
“If regular airplanes were making those trails, there would be massive accidents in the sky – pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each others flight paths in such a fashion as the photos depict.”
Regular aircraft make these trails for 20% of the time on average. You are correct – “pilots are not allowed to fly willy-nilly across each other’s flight paths” – and they DON’T. They fly above or below each other by 2000 feet. At a distance of seven miles (their usual altitude) this 2000 feet is not easy to discriminate. That is why there is Air Traffic Control.
“One day you will notice the difference. I, too, was completely skeptical when I first heard about this, then I started watching the sky.”
You falsely assume I am not older, wiser, and more experienced than you are. This is typical behavior for CT “theorists” who have in the past ridiculed the Max Planck Institute and many other Nobel Laureates in their slanders.
“The difference in contrails and chemtrails was so starkly different I was shocked that I had not noticed it before.”
Unfortunate. You should (and one day, I hope, WILL) be shocked by the lengths your absolute ignorance of the world around you has led you to.
“When Bill Clinton was President, this was an issue he was willing to talk about.”
Well, ole’ Bill should have kept his flies zipped and boned up on physics first.
“This is not some crazy conspiracy theory, it is a fact. It just happens to be one that very few people talk about.”
It IS some crazy conspiracy theory. One day your shame will prevent you talking about it.
“Different opinions are always welcome and encouraged as long as civility remains.”
Believe it or not – I’m doing my best to be civil. The fairy story of “Chicken Little” springs to mind here. I always thought it had a lightweight moral point, but these days I’m not so sure.
How much REAL harm is being done by thousands of people, who through their own ignorance are spreading lies and slander through an information system? And doesn’t this come under the Patriot Act?
June 5, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Interesting, you are quite rabid on this subject – what is your issue, jazzroc? If you want to dismiss the Chemtrail people as crazies, why not just do so and get on with your life? You talk about the great harm being done to people over this Chemtrail issue – what harm is being done, exactly? Some people believe it, some do not. I have yet to hear of some Chemtrail maniac shooting innocent planes out of the sky, it is simply an issue of some people are certain they exist, others are certain they do not. Who is getting so badly “harmed”?
It must be frustrating for you that, as you quote above, from 1953 until now, you have six hundred scientific papers to quote from. Six hundred in fifty-six years? Really not much of a tome insofar as a span of over half a century.
Are you a pilot? My brother is a small aircraft pilot, and we have flown together many times, so I have a tiny bit of Air Traffic Control experience as a passenger next to the pilot.
You assume that I am not aware that you are older. I went to your myspace page, and could clearly see that you are older. However, I do not confuse older with wiser. Older often translates into calcified in ones belief system.
Putting Bill Clinton, one of our best Presidents, down because of personal indiscretions that have zero to do with how extremely smart he is, shows how immediately dismissive you are towards any possible credibility to this issue.
This tells me that your mind is a door that is firmly slammed shut, and there is no point in any further discourse.
I do hope some day you will wake up and realize how much of your precious life you have wasted calling other people ignorant, while you remained mired in your belief with cement shoes and ’scientific’ facts. We do not get told everything by our government, scientist, or military. Personal experience is all an individual has to go by.
Believe it or not, this is a civil response back – as civil as I can be when a total stranger comes on to my site, behaving like a condescending blowhard, and calling me ignorant, telling me I am harming others, and telling me I should be ashamed of myself. Move along, sir.
June 5, 2009 jazzroc:
“Interesting, you are quite rabid on this subject – what is your issue, jazzroc?”
Perhaps you are unaware of your hypocrisy here.
The ISSUE is that you believe (without REAL evidence – for there is none) that your own people are attempting to injure yourself and everyone else with “poison sprays”.
And then you state this as FACT, converting your belief into action.
THAT is RABID. And a form of terrorism, and within the aegis of the Patriot Act.
Me? I’m just carrying out my social responsibilities…
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Good God, man, you really love pointing out how “unaware” and “ignorant” everybody else is. The rabid I referred to is that your blog on the subject literally goes on for miles, and you seem to seek out any and all who disagree with you. You did not seem to fully read and comprehend the first person who posted, because you mentioned that the word “cedar” was in my post, and immediately decided that the unwell feeling was due to cedar pollens being released in December. Wrong.
The woman who wrote the first comment had gone to Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. And yet you have the nerve to condescend to me that I did not read and understand everything on your blog.
Your obsession with the Patriot Act is pretty funny – everything I post is in direct conflict with the Patriot Act – I am exercising my right to free speech and thought, without fear of being hauled away to Gitmo.
It’s called the First Amendment, pumpkin, and despite your attempts to steamroller over my right to free speech, wrapping yourself in some righteous cloak of “social responsibility”, you cannot stop me from writing about my experiences in the world I live in.
I am flattered that I have made the leap, in your fixed, narrow mind, from “ignorant” to “terrorist” in less than 24 hours.
I retract asking you to move along. Keep coming back, as with every comment you post, you emerge as a rigid, bullying, troglodyte. And Gosh Darn, I really need someone like you to “enlighten” me. Why, you should be on payroll somewhere for carrying out your “social responsibilities” with such zeal. You threw civility out the window when you came into my space and started hurling insults. Keep up the good work, you really have a way with people. Ta!
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
No matter where you wander in your invective, the ISSUE STILL REMAINS that you believe (without REAL evidence – for there is none) that your own people are attempting to injure yourself and everyone else with “poison sprays”.
And then you state this as FACT, converting your belief into action, broadcasting this and conveying it to whoever has the misfortune to receive it.
These inimical actions CONFIRM you as an enemy of the United States and her people.
With your lies and false witness, you’s da enemy NOW…
How d’ya like those orange boiler suits! Ha! And those “showers”? Pffff – don’t look good to me!
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Oh honey – You have shown yourself to be a certified loon. You seem incapable of refuting anything I point out, you, in the style of Rush Limbaugh, state what you believe to be yours, consequently the only, truth, and if anybody disagrees, you start screaming the exact same argument, with your liberal use of the caps button.
This is not a discussion, is is a diatribe. Yours. Any evidence I have you would debunk, no matter what the source. I have gone from trying to have a discussion with you, to getting irritated by you, to laughing at you, but now I kind of feel sorry for you. I feel bad for the fact that someone with a life experience that differs from yours causes in you such uncontrollable wrath and crumbling ability to interact. Try to take care of yourself. My guess is you suffer from high blood pressure and if you keep this up, you could very well stroke out. Try a little Yoga, sweetie. Or take a valium.
I am happy for you to put this exchange up on your “Issues” page. You and your little gang of sycophants can rip me to shreds on the safety of your blog. Don’t expect a visit from me, I have no need to defend myself against folks this extremely mono-focused and unreasonable.
You know, science is not rigid and cemented in facts once proven. It is a constantly evolving medium, and to hold onto it as tightly as you do is a recipe for being left behind. I am sure you remember how Galileo was persecuted to his last days for his forward thinking progress – he did not stay static within the safety of the status quo. It is a relief that you are a simple citizen with an opinion, just like myself. God forbid you were in a position of governmental power – it would be the Spanish Inquisition all over again.
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
To anyone who is following this nonsense, my curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over to Mr. Jazzroc’s “Issues” page (and MAN does this guy have “issues”) – and I am honored to be in such interesting company!
It is made up of of many different people and their Chemtrail experiences, and jazzroc does not disappoint. He sticks to his guns, with some really fun and snappy retorts from him. It is too bad that he has such a short fuse and inability to address a single point from the opposition, as his cause suffers for it, but it makes for great entertainment, if one is so inclined.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
“Oh honey” May I call you “darling”? “you start screaming the exact same argument, with your liberal use of the caps button.” You mean, repeating what the issue is? You are bearing false witness against your neighbors – and you call it “free speech”! 🙂
The Bible, Exodus 20:2–17 Deuteronomy 5:6–21 Exodus 34:11–27: 16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
The Patriot Act is described as: a law defining “domestic terrorism” as acts committed in the United States “dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws,” if the U.S. government determines that they “appear to be intended” to “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion,” or “to intimidate or coerce a civilian population.” Such ambiguous language allows for a loose interpretation that might violate civil liberties and human rights. Yours.
“You know, science is not rigid and cemented in facts once proven. It is a constantly evolving medium, and to hold onto it as tightly as you do is a recipe for being left behind.”
Well, YOU haven’t paid any attention to it at all, and show no signs of doing so. May I quote you, darling? – “and ’scientific’ facts. We do not get told everything by our government, scientist, or military. Personal experience is all an individual has to go by.” Incorrect. Science is a way of improving upon “personal experience”. You should try it sometime. It can be perfectly accessible to you.
“it would be the Spanish Inquisition all over again.”
It’s YOUR government’s policy – not mine. I fear that a world under the Inquisition mightn’t be as bad as a world stacked full of ignorant liars with blogs on the Internet, raising everyone else’s suspicion of innocent, capable, and hard-working professional people, and meanwhile distracting everyone’s attention from discovering the true causes of respiratory ailments.
June 6, 2009 Tomas Hradcky:
Alas, one of my worst fears. A certain type of “Jazz/Rock” musician (with all due respect to the many great musicians I’ve worked with) who is one who will ultimately taser themselves thinking they are protecting all of us from the scourge of three chord power rock. Or in this case, oddly enough, chemtrails. JazzRoc, it might better serve your valuable time to lose yourself in an infinite II/V circle of fifths loop. It would certainly be safer and more peaceful for the rest of us. Breathe boy! Best,Tomas
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Ahh, it was only a matter of time before my suspicions about you were confirmed – you are now quoting the Bible. A questionable source of solid information, that book. You can call me anything you want, angel. You already have, but thanks for asking at this late date. You know, I used to be insistent upon having the last word in every argument, until one day I woke up and realized how childish I felt. I am moving on, and I hope you do to, only because you have a family, and I am sure they would like some of your attention, attention you are squandering going round and round in circles with a total stranger. Try to show a little restraint in your obsessive behavior, as you may look up one day and notice that your family has left you to your righteous insanity via the computer keyboard. But it has been fun, darling. I have grown rather fond of your lunatic responses. But, it is a beautiful day outside, no Chemtrails, just one lone Contrail, so I am going for a hike.
But before I go, Jazz, I have one question. “It’s YOUR government’s policy – not mine.” Well, yes it is! So why in the world do you give a damn? Let the silly fools in the United States blog their opinions – enjoy looking down on us and laugh amongst yourself and your friends. You are taking your sense of self importance and “social responsibility” to a bit of an extreme, when you are not even in the same country. It’s a bit puzzling…….
Tomas – you kill me. I was going to suggest that Mr. Jazzroc go back to practicing his scales and working on his art, but you beat me to it.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
Haha. Tomas, I LIKE the occasional 3-chord power rock, but certainly not for any extended period! The same goes for the other idea (I think!)
Safer – no. More peaceful – no.
We’re a technologically-based civilisation now, and the most dangerous thing we can do is retreat from an understanding of the science that holds us up.
We are BIG – and you KNOW how hard we will fall – unless we can build ourselves a parachute.
“Chemtrails” don’t exist at all. They are a symptom of our failure to properly understand the world around us, and an evil that must be countered, before it is backed up and amplified by other world events, such as the economic consequences of declining fossil fuels, possible climate change, maybe a world recession (oh, we have that), and worsening instability in the Middle East (oh, we have that), and a growing list of similar chickens coming home to roost.
“Chemtrails? WHO ordered THEM?”
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
Kelly, from the outset you haven’t taken REAL notice of what I am saying.
Search Google for “paper” “aviation” “saturated” “atmosphere” “contrails” “-chemtrails” “-aerosols” (yes – all at once!)
These are properly-written scientific papers which directly contradict your “hypothesis”.
You haven’t challenged me to produce evidence because you quite obviously are unwilling to risk changing your belief. This only goes to confirm what I have as civilly as possible indicated to you, which is that your blog and activities are harmful. You pretend that it’s only an itty-bitty thing, but you deceive yourself. This blog is not a US-only manifestation. It IS worldwide. You have no evidence (for there can be no evidence for a non-existent entity) and what you suggest flies in the face of established science – and is just – LIES.
As you are too cowardly to confront your own ignorance you resort to abuse, namely “quite rabid – calcified in ones belief system – immediately dismissive – your mind is a door that is firmly slammed shut – how much of your precious life you have wasted – mired in your belief with cement shoes and ’scientific’ facts – condescending blowhard – condescend to me – your attempts to steamroller over my right to free speech – wrapping yourself in some righteous cloak – your fixed, narrow mind – rigid, bullying, troglodyte – started hurling insults – certified loon – incapable of refuting – start screaming – uncontrollable wrath and crumbling ability – you suffer from high blood pressure – you could very well stroke out – your little gang of sycophants – extremely mono-focused and unreasonable – short fuse and inability to address a single point – your obsessive behavior – your lunatic responses”
Mirror, mirror, on the wall………..
June 6, 2009 Tomas Hradcky:
The only thing “REAL” here is that you, JazzRoc, are in a world of your own. What wonderful world it must be. At least for you. By the way, an original idea of your own would be nice once and a while. Cheers.
p.s. I await your own scientific studies and hard wrought evidence and thank God I never had to play a gig with you.
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Okay Jazzy, Since you take zero responsibility for being the first in the comments section to start the name-calling, I will ignore your severe hypocrisy in your last post, and simply address your calling me a coward for not offering up any data, even though I had a link in my original post, a fact you have conveniently ignored.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
I will post for each. First, Rense:
‘Deep Sky’ source – is not a credible source, is it?
“substance that showed up on ATC radars as a ‘haze’” – as does a supersaturated contrail
“radar returns are the signature of the fine aluminum particles found in laboratory tests of contaminated rain taken in Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999″ – how do they know that? Did they take the samples from Ontario to Vancouver? Really! Are YOU THAT credulous?
“The lab analysis found reflective quartz particles in the chemtrail fallout – and levels of aluminum FIVE TIMES higher than Ontario’s maximum permissible health safety standards” – dried soil dust will do the same: CLAY is aluminum silicate.
DND eventually replied, “It’s not us.” – Because it wasn’t them.
‘Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming’ – requires 20 million tons of material per shot, 250,000 tanker flights, and money that has never been available (and more than the billion bucks mentioned!).
“a predicted doubling of heat-trapping C02 in the atmosphere over the next 40 years” – no prediction of CO2 heating has EVER borne fruit. It’s strange, because it does in lab conditions – just not out there in the world. There are still as yet unknown “sinks” for it.
“warned that the stratospheric spraying of sunlight-reflecting chemicals could ‘destroy the ozone layer’” – more true of the oxides of nitrogen and sulfur than anything else, because it is nearly impossible to get solid materials in large quantities into the lower polar thermospheres.
“spraying something that regularly clouds their screens” – as I said before – that’s what a heavy contrail can do.
“A scientist working at Wright-Pat recently told reporter” – is not a credible source, is it?
“under pressure according to Kucinich” – due to HIS pressure, according to Kuchinich. Check it out.
“The unusual white plumes are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them” – it’s warmer the higher you go in the stratosphere, which is stable, and layered with layers of differing humidities. Learn your science.
According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, andhumidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes – this is a plain lie. Check.
“artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation”. – But it is also known that it can be done vastly more cheaply by salt spray from ocean-going ships. So why pick a dearer option?
Complete bullshit follows…
William Thomas quit discussing anything with me in a hurry. He and his back-off feature in my blog.
June 6, 2009 jazzroc:
NASA ON CONTRAILS
Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail “life-spans”, contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading.
Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky,perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state.
Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where theairplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don’t. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky.
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind.
Contrails are “human-induced” clouds since they are formed by water vapor condensing and freezing on particles from airplane exhaust. Contrails are always made of ice particles, due to the very cold temperatures at high altitude. Other types of clouds can be formed by water vapor that condenses on particles which are present in the atmosphere due to many sources, such as from volcanoes or dust storms, not specifically from aircraft exhaust. Those clouds are sometimes made of water droplets, and sometimes ice crystals, depending on the temperature where they form.
Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C).
Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds.
Contrails were first noticed during high-altitude flights in the 1920’s. However, interest in contrails really blossomed during WWII when bombers could be sighted from miles away. In fact, numerous WWII veteran accounts tell of problems to aviation due to massive contrail formations. Planes could not find their targets, and sometimes collided with each other. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail.
NOAA ON CONTRAILS
June 6, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo:
Funny, when I consulted my magic 8 ball, it predicted that you would respond in this exact fashion.
I am sure William Thomas quit discussing anything with you in a hurry. How can anyone discuss anything with you when all you do is discredit everyone except your own sources? You don’t discuss, you dismiss. At this point I am speaking from experience with you, and you have become a bore.
June 7, 2009 Kelly Mahan Jaramillo: Fully aware of what a contrail is, thank you. Again, fully aware of what a contrail is. Thank you. In case you did not quite understand, I understand what a contrail is. Thank you. Contrails are not the topic. Thank you.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
That Rense stuff all falls down. The radar images are of heavy clouds, and there’s NO link to aluminum and silica on the opposite side of the continent – which is very likely to have been wind-blown soil. Have you lost all reason?
Sure, you “know about contrails”.
Then WHY are you claiming this: “Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails. Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind.” to be “chemtrails”?
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“On a busy day,” McCallum said, “with the right atmospheric conditions, these aircraft will form contrails that could accumulate and remain in the sky for hours. The Canadian forces and the Government of Canada have not been involved in activities such as you describe in your letter, nor would we allow any other party to conduct any form of aerial activity that could endanger the health of Canadian citizens.”
THAT is the sensible part of this.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Very sinister looking tubes, but why are half of them facing the wrong way?
The plane is not for spraying the atmosphere, it’s for sampling the atmosphere. It’s a research aircraft, registration N701BN, operated by the department of energy’s national labs. It’s pretty much one of a kind, so it’s hardly likely to be responsible for all the persistent contrails we see every day. The research is mostly on pollutants in the atmosphere, particularly from coal and oil burning power plants. But they also investigate the properties of clouds, which includes contrails.”
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Your articles on chemtrails are pure fantasy. I worked for a gas turbine engine manufacturer for 10 years in engineering. The fuel purity requirements are extremely tight for jet fuel. No commercial airline would dream of sacrificing millions of dollars worth of engines to support some crazy government depop. plot. For every pound of fuel burned you get almost a pound of water vapor which at 30,000 feet and -60 F freezes to form, guess what, ice crystals – in cloud-like contrails. When there are on average 7,000 commercial aircraft in the air over the US every day that is a lot of water vapor. If they were trying to burn a heavy particle load in the fuel the engine fuel nozzles and hydromechanical fuel controls would plug up causing shutdowns and failures not good for the safety of passengers or the bottom line.
Follow the money man and do some homework!” Doug A
“most of the chemtrail spraying platforms are robotic craft under complete computer guidance.”
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
This a phoney Photoshopped forgery, typical of the site it’s in.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
“Dr. Rosalie Bertell is a world famous radiation scientist who can be trusted. She says electromagnetic weapons have the ability to transmit effects such as earthquake induction across intercontinental distances to any selected target site on the globe with force levels equivalent to major nuclear explosions.”
HAARP has a gigawatt of power. To apply the force of Hiroshima’s SMALL nuclear bomb (10 Kiloton) to “earthquake induction” it would (if it were 100% efficient) have to work flat out for sixty-nine weeks!
THAT shows exactly how ridiculous her claims are.
In all civility, you are being mislead by fraudsters, charlatans, crooks, and people with Alzheimers, down a path of misery and disorder, due to your own ignorance.
Please do not lead others down this same path.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
From William Thomas: “SmT gazed in disbelief at another schoolbook picture showing a helicopter seeding the ocean with iron particles. These desperate “IronX” experiments did indeed trigger plankton “blooms” that, in turn, transferred tons of atmospheric C02 underwater as those carbon-inhaling critters eventually died and sank to the seafloor.
But – oops! – his kid’s science book fails to mention that the resulting ocean blooms also sucked all available oxygen from the seawater, suffocating all marine life in massive, spreading “dead zones”. [Chemtrails Confirmed ’04]“
So once more this pseudo-science “journalist” relies on “Chemtrails Confirmed” for his clincher. (That’s rather like asking a burglar to fix your door-lock!)
There are thousands of species of ocean phytoplankton. The majority of them photosynthesize airborne CO2 to sugars, liberating oxygen, exactly as green land plants do. Thus injecting an iron compound with a specific gravity similar to that of sea-water (so that it remains in the top 100 meters of solar-illuminated ocean) would help to oxygenate the planet – if that were ever to become necessary. Of course, one wouldn’t use helicopters, but it would a good use of ocean-going supertankers. A helicopter might be used for a small local test, because small sea organisms respond rapidly (within hours) to feeding.
There are also, however, ocean-going anaerobic phytoplanktons. They are blue or red in color, and are a small minority of the whole. They respond better to high sea temperatures, deplete oxygen (just as we and fungi do) and would suffocate oxygen breathing life wherever they were in the majority. Their numbers are kept low by the oxygen liberated by the more prolific denizens of the sunlit shallows.
Scientists know about all of these things, and would NOT go out there to create such apocryphal accidents “cooked up” by “Chemtrails Confirmed”.
Only ignorance leads you to believe such rubbish. It’s a bit like arguing that scientists invented fertilizers on land that killed the contents of a greenhouse with poisonous mushrooms. But that wouldn’t be tried would it – because gardeners everywhere would laugh them down.
Those experiments are no more “desperate” than fertilizing soil. I’m an organic permaculturalist by preference, but that wouldn’t stop me adding iron and other trace elements to my soil if I thought it needed it. The same goes for the mineral-deficient centres of all Earth’s oceans.
It’s merely commonsense, and SCIENCE.
June 7, 2009 jazzroc:
Tomas Hradcky: “By the way, an original idea of your own would be nice once and a while.”
Here’s a few: http://www.reverbnation.com/jazzroc – enjoy!
Hi kiwibro25! – “Jazzroc is a spook” – Yep. Secret as hell. Check my website here – the first song is for YOU
“trying to cover up the truth” – Oh yep. You found me out. On myspace.com/jazzroc, was it? The one with pictures of me and my family, my daughter’s wedding, my photography, my composed jazz and rock music, my transcribed and synthesized classical music, my blogs on contrails/volcanoes, “intelligent” design, tory canvassers, and religion?
“he’s probably working for the govt” – Damn. Where’s my money? (Don’t you know its very rude to talk past people?)
“chemtrails are very real & very dangerous” – Let’s see…
Morgellons can’t be coming out of the engines (2,000 degrees C), and barium/aluminum can’t be coming out of the engines
A single/shot would require 3.4 MILLION TONS, a silver single/shot works out at 8.5 MILLION DOLLARS. ? – ER, NO
“dont believe the misleading bullshit” – YET AGAIN, SCIENCE IS BULLSHIT
“this guy types” – THE TRUTH. AT LAST! (Another rude guy who talks past you!)
(TEXT FROM “SECRET” WEBSITE)
“I’m not convinced chemtrails are contrails. I suspect that people like JazzRoc are paid disinformation agents because of their methods and misleading tactics. I could be totally wrong and it would be wonderful if chemtrails didn’t exist, but from my personal experience and from hearing other people talk, makes me think otherwise. What do you think? Please post an intelligent comment about what you think of JazzRoc and others like him and not just an insult 🙂
I have received lots of messages about other debunkers on youtube. Many people suspect they are the SAME person using different profiles. Here is a list of profiles that people think JazzRoc also goes by:
If you suspect other profiles he is using please post it in the comments or message me.”
The COMMENTS section is interesting:
deepwatertree – almost forgot about a user name: coachgreywolf. So anyways, picture this…what if all these accounts are created and monitored by artificial intelligence programs that have been given the ability to converse like humans and respond to questions or statements? Why not…this would be the perfect place to test such systems…google IS big brother, ya know? Check out the following video on you tube, and see what you think…”Artificial General Intelligence: Now Is the Time” – MUCH LOVE TO ALL MY EARTH PEOPLE FAMILY! – DEATH TO THE MACHINES THAT CONTROL US! Okay, here is my theory:
Jazzroc, EarlMcCrackin, MrPayt, and all of these other “users” are not actually human. Think about it…can there really be THAT many guys that get paid to sit at a desk all day and post disinfo comments on truth seekers pages? Some of these accounts have only been active for a few months, yet “they” have viewed thousands and thousands of videos…is it humanly possible to watch that many videos AND respond back and forth? Unless they sit there for 20 hours a day, I doubt it. (NO!)
Silentkill666 – lol I wish I got paid…
Apocalypticscreams – Well, here’s two more to go on your list: imi72 & blackcatcrying. Hi, I’m putting together a list of all accounts on YT that I suspect are agents and paid trolls. Is it ok if I use your list of Jazzrocs fake accounts?
awakekiwi – i sent this below to jazzroc: hey man, you say youve studied science yet you think that depleted uranium is harmless in the field. i guess that says it all, your an idiot or living in denial or your just paid to sound like an idiot, either way.. your your own worst enemy! sniggle.. 🙂
dbootsthediva – Another person that I believe to be a debunker Spook is SENTRYNOX. Jazzroc is an evil person for his persistent posts in helping the government and the media to continue to cover up these chemtrails and the harmful effects it has on the entire population of the Planet. Jazzroc is a prime example of a paid debunker, whose job is to go around and post on all the damning evidence of the YOUTUBE videos the entire world is posting in which to try and deter others from the truth. Here is a video link to one of the videos Jazzroc posted many replys of probably scripted lines the government hands him to type, just like they hand out what stories the media is to report on. Can’t post the link I think so the comment is on the user name of DARGONTeraAlpha Name of video is ChemTrails: What are they? /watch?v=5TKKtjxTO3g this is the last part of the lint after the /
mish6874 – On my vid chemtarils uk government admits deadly spraying, ‘TheFlange666‘ has been rather busy trying to tell people that chemtails are nothing more than car exaust and we are all using chemtails as a reason not to own up and take our responsibility for polluting the planet. Don’t know if it is jazzroc but a possible disinfo agent.
ozobezleeb – Silentkill666, maybe a new jazztwat.
greenmts – BLOCK & DELETE.
sirbadman – Hey guys, I got an email from jazzroc that was calling me a liar and slimeball disinformation artist or something similiar. It is probably because I posted elsewhere for users to have a look at this page. In the email he detailed information about himself and then asked me what I had done apart from “lie”. I have since blocked him from contacting me but I think there is something wrong with him asking me for information about myself – and using inflammatory writing to perhaps provoke me into revealing such information. Has anyone else had anything similar?
newton2013 – If he grew up around base – “army brat”…Then his information is from, the information circles that he would encounter in that environment. He does say..”A high achiever at school. I was a “forces brat”, so travelled around the UK and abroad” They have re-educated those in the field. He lives on the field, so what do you expect. I wonder, for instance, he thinks Depleted Uranium is a harmless substance that can be left on a battlefield without causing harm to future generations. He’s not necessarily paid to do what he’s doing, It may just be a function of what his being has been taught in that environment. His argument must be right after all, he’s all into guarding the most powerful country on the planet, and he grew up there- How could the information he has be wrong… eh? My Opinion. (Grrr – a big fat LIE!)
4absurdity – thanks for your message! yes it’s completely obvious that jazzrock is a fake. why should someone copy paste the same comment to about every chemtrail video? and why should he want to communicate with us, when he thinks that er are all nuts? so much effort to heal some paranoids from their point of view?! that he is using different accounts completes the picture 😉
givemeabreakgivemeab – Jazzroc will just waste your time and energy. I learned the hard way by engaging him in a discussion about a video I made. He trolls the web and posts the same “soda pop” crap to initiate never-ending arguments. He attacks anyone who suggests that chemtrails may not be simple contrails. His tactic is to bombard you with “scientific evidence”, he refers to his own website as proof and responds with a barrage of insults and bizarre accusations (such as “you are either uneducated or evil”) which derail any reasonable discussion. Classic misdirection. The only logical explanation for his behavior is he is paid to do this. Spread the word.
badInvention – Ive seen planes flying the same altitude, one leaving a small contrail,the the other a huge trail of “ice crystalls” wich turns into a cloud of haze. This can not make any sense. All planes fly a specific flight route, the same path, just at different heights (according to air traffic regulations). Why do we have chess boards strung across our skies? why do these planes circle my town? (I do not even live close to an airport, that they might have to circle) Not to mention the dangarous flight behavior of these chembirds. Why do my eyes burn and my chest hurt on a “contrail” hazed up day ? Why does flora at home suffer from something that looks like chemical burn marks? someone out there wants to make us very weak and sick.
Zigga12345 – Jazz Rock sucks cock, he chats the same crap over and over, i think he could be a piece of shit.
kissthisguy88 – Thanks for the message and creating the profile. Most people that have chemtrail videos don’t realize that they can silence debunkers like jazzroc. The best thing to do is block him and delete everything he has written. Don’t even brother to have an exchange with him. Believe me, block and delete will stop him cold in his tracks. AND other people new to chemtrails that might be watching for the first time don’t have to read his BS. Thanks to YouTube for giving video makers powerful tools like block and delete.
sirbadman – Aah so mister Jazzroc received some dirty money to set up his website and is using deceptive methods in youtube. Thanks heaps for your help in debunking the contrail con artist. So what is up with these chem trails then? And why are so many people convinced they are harmless?
Apocalypticscreams – Thanks for the heads-up, I had my suspicions about him but never realised he had multiple accounts. If that is the case he is 100% a paid disinfo agent. No one would spend so much time “debunking” chemtrails if they knew it to be a load of crap, they (the three lettered agencies) only roll out the COINTELPRO, disinfo monkeys when people are getting too close for comfort. I see this as an own goal by the trolls and spooks: the more they try debunking chemtrails, the more credibility and reason to carry on with raising awareness they give us. Well done Jazzroc, you shot yourself in the foot.
Blackheart77ce – Jazz is a shill. Everything Jazz says is refutable, but that’s a waste of time. He will get a new name and keep trolling. If you see him, point him out. The damage some people do to truth can only be minimized. Keep passing along the truth despite people like Jazz!
BaZooKa4314 – I had to comment because if you pay attention and keep an open mind you will notice all sorts of things that are going on in this world. Informing yourself and listening to what other people have to say can tell you a lot more about what IS going on that what you hear on the news. I am free to make my own opinions on matters the same as anybody else, I am free to state that opinion in any way abiding the law. I don’t have much to say about jazroc except that his opinions seem to be more for disproving someone elses opinions and there IS something to be said about that……
WhereIsTruth – how can you have any level of intelligence and not see what chemtrails are…once they are pointed out to you. i mean come on…there are shots with one plane spraying while another similar plane at the same basic altitude is leaving no contrail at all. this is the clearest EVIL act the EVILDOERS are doing.
drewswebsite – First, epoxynous showed up in my CHEMTRAILS video #1 comments section, going on about contrails and chemtrails being the same, etc.. I called him out as a either ignorant or on the job. Then this same attitude and mindset shows back up in the comments section only this time the screenname is “timmcal“. And then “jazzroc” Same exact MO. All three veritable ROCKET SCIENTISTS!! LOL More like the THREE STOOGES… only not funny…
diecrewdeluks – looks like we need to put jazzrock to the sword you fucking asshole haha him and dreamlandnightmare shoudl get married lmao
RonBaggerman – whatever he is, he’s someone without a life…..i think he’s all of the above. but for sure he’s dangerous in the sense that he surely confuses and intimidates some people. anyway the anti chemtrail movement is growing day by day here in holland and everywhere around the world. it’s all about consciousness,,,,,as yogi bear said: if you start to look, then it’s amazing what you can see. check my CT vids.
jefflettis – I think he is either a spook or a mind controlled goofball. He is also posting on Morgellens videos that mention a link to chemtrails. I go out and look up in the sky practically every day and see them spraying. I’ve called the EPA and got no response.
HumildeHumano – jazzroc is a debunker robot. Fuck debunkers ! Fuck the system ! Fuck chemtrailers ! Fuck New World Order ! Fuck New Age ! Free Human !
ozobezleeb – What ever this jazzprick say’s is pointless, Chemtrails are true, they are happening every day, and soon will be taken on by all as fact.
Skywitness – Unfortunately jazzroc is a spook who appears to have sold his soul to his NWO handlers. His purpose is to confuse, discourage, and to try and create doublemindedness within everyone who is searching for the truth concerning chemtrails. Video evidence for chemtrails, remains stronger than any of the disinfo words that come from jazzroc and the other spooks in his club.
Matteo42 – Jazzroc can lick my asshole.
JusticePistoff – I think that’s some badass fighter on jazzroc’s page. Can’t say I’ve seen that before. I guess being a spook does have its benefits.
Food shortage is being created by creating drought, killing bees not just with spray, but also by fooling with electromagnetics of the atmosphere, animals dying everywhere of foot-in-mouth, blue tongue, rift valley virus, a goat 2 days ago of anthrax, pigs in vietnam a few days ago from an unknown new respiratory illness, and then there’s the bird flu.“
The thing is, jbreezes, that these things have been on Earth for the best part of 4 BILLION YEARS.
Sometimes, methinks, it appears that the only NEW phenomena are the NWO and YOU. Now why don’t YOU BOTH “die everywhere of foot-in-mouth, blue tongue, rift valley virus“.
“foot-in-mouth” you CERTAINLY have…
Why, John, if you wish to debate with me, do you use an anonymous email address?
1.) Great photo. Where did you get it? It looks too good to be true. Maybe it has been PhotoShopped?
It was part of a set of forty pictures taken by a professional photographer.
2.) I did a search for the weblink/photo on Google, and there were no hits for the “jeffwell.jpg”. I even checked out Airliners.net and there was no photo there either!
It probably DID come from airliners.net. Try http://contrailscience.com
Uncinus writes: “On June 12 2005 from 14:59 to 15:06 Bejing time (~07:00 UTC) pilot and photographer Jeff Well took a series of 45 photos of an exceptionally colourful iridescent contrail produced by an A340-313X aircraft in 9600 m (31,500 feet) altitude, just 1200 m higher as his position on the same route over eastern China.”
3.) Your explination of “Burst Condensation” contardicts your assertions on how/when contrails are made coming out of the turbofan jet engine.
Yes. That’s because there are two entirely different sets of events taking place: the first is the condensation of steam into ice particles, the second the burst condensation of supercooled droplets of water over the point of minimum pressure (and maximum cooling) just ahead and above the maximum wing chord – on its topside. Learn to spell.
4.) The size progression of the supercooled water vapor: does it remain water vapor, or does it turn into ice? — you know, since it’s “supercooled”.
It isn’t vapor at all: it is a “Burst frozen” cloud of droplets of super-cooled water which are picking up more molecules of water out of the marginally-supersaturated air.
WIKI says: “Supercooling or Supercooled water is the process of lowering the temperature of a liquid below its freezing point, without it becoming a solid or a gas.
A liquid below its standard freezing point will crystallize in the presence of a seed crystal or nucleus around which a crystal structure can form. However, lacking any such nucleus, the liquid phase can be maintained all the way down to the temperature at which crystal homogeneous nucleation occurs. The homogeneous nucleation can occur above the glass transition where the system is an amorphous, that is, non-crystalline solid.
Water can freeze at 273.15 K (0 °C or 32 °F) but it can also be supercooled at standard pressure down to its crystal homogeneous nucleation at almost 231 K (−42 °C). If cooled at a rate on the order of 106 K/s, the crystal nucleation can be avoided and water becomes a glass. Its glass transition temperature is much colder and harder to determine, but studies estimate it at about 165 K (−108 °C). Glassy water can be heated up to approximately 150 K (−123 °C). In the range of temperatures between 231 K (−42 °C) and 150 K (−123 °C) experiments find only crystal ice.
Droplets of supercooled water often exist in stratiform and cumulus clouds. They form into ice when they are struck by the wings of passing airplanes and abruptly crystallize. (This causes problems with lift, so aircraft that are expected to fly in such conditions are equipped with a deicing system.) Freezing rain is also caused by supercooled droplets.”
5.) When they increase in size they run through a progression of light frequencies? How does size relate to light frequency?
They are very small in size, and as they increase in size they “match” the interference properties of various wavelengths of the sunlight passing through them. That’s my opinion.
6.) To interfere means the lack of synergy, thus the result is “refraction”.
You’re wrong here. There is nothing “frictional” about interference. The physics paper that makes this case quite completely argues for a refractive process, and even manages a credible simulation.
7.) Petroleum has the rainbow characteristic you mention — You know, mix gas (in this case, kerosene) with water and what do you see? A rainbow effect… Duh! And wouldn’t you know, jet fuel is petroleum based…
Then this physics paper would be wasted on YOU.
All the properties of super-saturated air indicate that it must be pure. The phenomenon, if you hadn’t noticed, starts at the point of maximum cooling, which is just forward of the maximum wing chord, on the top surface of the wing, in PURE (but supersaturated) AIR. Not a LIKELY point to start “spraying” is it, right under the passengers’s eyes! (But actually the droplet size is probably too fine to be visible over the wing.)
8.) Burst Condensation relates to marine life, as explained in many abstracts on the subject. Jazzroc, you are slowly coming unraveled from the onslaught of proof we “chemtrailers” have provided, and thus have shown that you are nothing mors than a bald-faced liar. And what is so great, is that you will delete this post, giving me the last word!
So I checked by typing “burst condensation” into Google… and this is what immediately rolled out:
Massive bursts in condensation nuclei (CN) concentration were recorded at a … In a previous paper the burst phenomenon was linked to the movement of the …
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1879678 – Similar pages
by JL GRENFELL – 1999 – Cited by 24 – Related articles – All 8 versions
Key words: aerosol, asymptotic, burst, condensation, nucleation. 1. Introduction … and condensation to both be important during a nucleation burst. …
http://www.springerlink.com/index/W4862551P4134428.pdf – Similar pages
by BD Shaw – 2003 – Related articles – All 4 versions
For an underwater burst at moderate (or great) depth, essentially all of the … The descent of water and spray from the column and from condensation in the …
http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/nukeffct/undrwtr.html – 12k – Cached – Similar pages
Top > Case Details > Burst of a phenolic resin reactor due to abnormal … Condensation became insufficient because the tubes of the condenser were blocked. …
shippai.jst.go.jp/en/Detail?fn=0&id=CC1000101& – 29k – Cached – Similar pages
File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint – View as HTML
CU’s section on Bose-Einstein Condensation can be found at: …. Why burst energy and how. much? Why is there a cold remnant. afterwards? …
phet.colorado.edu/admin/get-contribution-file.php?contribution_file_id=708 – Similar pages
“marine life, as explained in many abstracts on the subject”, eh?
As you can see, there’s nothing to do with live sea creatures, only something to do with the opposite of what you indicate. In other words, you are a liar, which is why you find yourself here…
re your second letter. It concerns material found at the site below:
which refers to this picture on airliners.net.
In the comments on this page Uncinus and I had this conversation:
on 29 Aug 2008 at 8:50 am jazzroc
“Very pretty. But what is it? It’s clearly not a regular exhaust contrail, as the trail seems to start actually ON the wing, and it has a weird rainbow effect you don’t find in exhaust contrails.”
Hi Uncinus. There are TWO elements to what you see. The first (starting at the wing) is the aerodynamic element, as the pressure drop above the wing initiates the precipitation of fine ice crystals into the air. The second is the exhaust water from the jets which is condensing directly into ice crystals. The aircraft is flying high in a partly super-satured stratospheric layer, and the picture wasn’t taken from sea level – because the sky is BLACK. (I can appreciate that a modicum of photographic contrast and colour saturation modification has taken place.)
“It’s actually an aerodynamic contrail. It’s formed by the reduction of pressure in the air as it moves over the wing. When the pressure of a gas falls, then its temperature also falls (the same principle as is used by your refrigerator). The reduced temperature cause small drops of water to condense, which then may freeze. The drops get larger as more water condenses on them. The different sized drops refract water by different amounts, which accounts for the “rainbow” effect.”
Well, I’ve covered that it’s TWO effects. I wish to argue strongly that your “growing water droplets” is way off. What were you thinking? You KNOW that the temperatures of the stratosphere don’t rise above freezing point until far above normal aircraft flight altitudes!
The effect (and its mostly visible on the aircraft exhaust ices due to their relative abundance here) is due to INTERFERENCE – not refraction.
Due to stratospheric super-saturation, the crystals are progressively growing in size as the agglomerate more ice from the “excess” water vapour.
As they progressively GROW in thickness (they’re flat hexagonal crystals), they also progressively INTERFERE with specific light frequencies. So you are “bound” to get a rainbow-like effect. Not only that, but subsets of these frequencies will “come around again”, so you’ll get two or three “rainbows”. But as they larger, the crystals get more “exotic” in shape, and degrade this initially “pure” physical phenomenon, until after a quarter of a mile the effect is gone – scattered away.
At high cruising speeds, the wave vortex of each wing isn’t as pronounced as it is at low speeds and higher angles of attack, but here you CAN see that the tip vortices are “coming inboard” as they follow the aircraft’s wave vortex.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 9:21 am Uncinus
The reason I was talking about growing water droplets was mostly to address the low-level aerodynamic contrails, such as those seen in the video. They can form where it is too warm for ice to form.
Regarding “what I was thinking”, my explanation is partially cribbed from the Gieren poster:
Which is actually from a paper on the sequence of photos from which this one was taken. In the poster they say: The ice crystal size distributions (solid curves) are generated from homogeneous freezing of liquid aerosol droplets (dashed). The smallest droplets freeze first, followed by freezing of larger droplets, until all available aerosol particles are depleted .… Mie theory was used to calculate optical properties from the size distributions,
assuming spherical ice particles. It then explains this exact color distribution, which matches his assumptions. “Refraction” was probably wrong, I’ve changed the text slightly to reflect “different optical properties”. The formation of aerodynamic contrails is a very different process to exhaust contrails, it’s not fully understood, but it’s not surpising that the resultant crystals can be very different.
As for where the photo was taken:
On June 12 2005 from 14:59 to 15:06 Bejing time (~07:00 UTC) pilot and photographer Jeff Well took a series of 45 photos of an exceptionally colourful iridescent contrail produced by an A340-313X aircraft in 9600 m (31,500 feet) altitude, just 1200 m higher as his position on the same route over eastern China.
I must admit though, I’m not exactly clear if liquid water can exist at that altitude and temperature, even for the fraction of a second he implies. Deposition (the opposite of sublimation) seems more in keeping with what I’ve read.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 9:51 am jazzroc
Haha, so I was right about the photo!
I read the pdf AFTER I’d posted, and with some trepidation, when I realized the solemnity of the source!
But I now suspect they also hadn’t properly considered the temperatures involved, and that also the solid ice deposition and accretion would produce by interference the same sequence (in effect) as their results demonstrated – including the scattering they mentioned.
If exhaust steam at 1100 deg C cools down a 1000 degrees to visibility, hence changing phase to liquid at 100 degrees taking out 540 Kcal/gram in a fraction of a second, I cannot see how it could waste much time at all making a second phase change to solid at 0 degrees taking out only 80 Kcal/gram and dropping a further 30 degrees.
The strange nature of the ice trail leading from the trailing edge of the wing hold’s one’s attention, doesn’t it? It is “backlit” by reflected sunlight off the top of the wing, as well as lit by sunlight from above.
Quite a show. As ever, your site is superb…
on 29 Aug 2008 at 11:24 am Uncinus
I think this paper explains the situation better. Note Figure 1 in this paper is a photo of the same plane taken at around the same time.
They estimate the temperature at 241K (-25F), which is rather different to the -40C they mention in the poster. At that temperature, water can exist as liquid supercooled droplets that only freeze when they get to a certain size.
It does seem to be all explained in the paper. A bit complicated though.
on 29 Aug 2008 at 4:10 pm jazzroc
You are right about it being “a bit complicated”, but I’m grateful for the complexity. Personally, to fully understand and master THAT would take me about a month of eight-hour days in a technical library. I shan’t be doing it, but thanks.
It’s interesting that this rare phenomenon will become less rare in the future, as more flights will take place along the Pacific Ring, where warmer and more humid conditions are to be found.
I like the way they considered the trail in depth and breadth, and made distinctions between particle sizes, and considered simplifications (!) to get their results. Also the discussion of the pre-conditioning of the aerosol particles by previous flights, and their relevance to GW and albedo modification.
They are right. You are right. A brilliant science paper of 54 pages. I’m off to eat some words…
Notice it was conducted without any rudeness, snide remarks, or incivility.
If you study the material available to you in the links mentioned above you will become fully acquainted with aerodynamic contrails. I also recommend the links below, which will acquaint you with research and conclusions about persistent trails leading to permanent cirrus cloud formation.
Meanwhile, your comment was deleted because of its irrelevance and incivility (as I warned I would do in my blog foreword).
Written by JazzRoc
November 1, 2008 at 1:00 am
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