JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Facts and “Chemtrail” Fictions

Archive for October 2008

Jet Spray

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Alex Jones has always been a louche popularist. No great intensity of thought here – a small brain behind a big, BIG, mouth. The “chemtrail” market was obviously TOO SMALL for hime to consider adding to his own, but, obviously and sadly, it must have GROWN to a size too large to ignore. So here it arrives, no doubt in its entirety, warts and all, nothing too crappy not to have been previously debunked.

Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet.com Friday, July 2, 2010

Scientists now admit that emissions from aircraft are forming artificial clouds that block out the sun, precisely what geoengineering advocates like top eugenicist and White House science advisor John P. Holdren have called for, but the article tries to insinuate that the effect is caused by natural “vapors,” when in reality it can be attributed to chemtrails that contain substances harmful to humans. “The phenomenon occurs when aircraft fly above 25,000ft, where the air temperature is around minus 30C. This causes water vapor emitted by the engines to crystallise and form the familiar white streaks across the sky, known as contrails,” writes Oliver Tree for the Daily Mail. “Reading University’s Professor Keith Shine, an expert in clouds, said that those formed by aircraft fumes could linger ‘for hours’, depriving those areas under busy flight paths, such as London and the Home Counties, of summer sunshine.”
“Experts have warned that, as a result, the amount of sunlight hitting the ground could be reduced by as much as ten per cent. Professor Shine added: “Over the busiest areas in London and the South of England, this high-level cloud could cover the sky, turning bright sunshine into hazy conditions for the entire area. I expect the effects will get worse as the volume of air traffic increases.” The report also makes reference to a 2009 Met Office study which found that high-level winds did not disperse contrails that later formed into clouds which covered an astonishing 20,000 miles.
Of course, this is no natural phenomenon as the article claims. Ten years ago, contrails from jet aircraft disappeared within minutes, yet apparently we are led to believe that the same substance is now causing the trails to linger for hours and form into clouds. This is impossible without something within the substance having been changed.
Mainstream science and academia has gone from dismissing chemtrails as a fantasy of paranoid conspiracy theorists to now accepting that they exist but claiming that they are natural and not artificially induced. In reality, chemtrails are the consequence of the agenda to geoengineer the earth in the name of combating climate change, a science vehemently backed by people like John P. Holdren, who in his 1977 book Ecoscience advocated poisoning the water supply to involuntarily sterilize humans as part of a “planetary regime” that would control every aspect of our existence. The fact that such eugenicists are now in control of geoengineering programs that will have a direct impact on our health is alarming.
Geoengineering programs have also been promoted by the Council on Foreign Relations, which is one of the main steering committees behind the implementation of global governance. A recent report issued by the UK government also calls for the UN to exclusively regulate world wide geoengineering of the planet in order to stave off man made global warming. Discussion of geoengineering technology is often framed as a future consideration, yet governments are already conducting such programs at an advanced stage.
The Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Program was created in 1989 with funding from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and is sponsored by the DOE’s Office of Science and managed by the Office of Biological and Environmental Research. One of ARM’s programs, entitled Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign (ISDAC), is aimed at measuring “cloud simulations” and “aerosol retrievals”. Another program under the Department of Energy’s Atmospheric Science Program is directed towards, “developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter.”
The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
U.S. government scientists are already bombarding the skies with the acid-rain causing pollutant sulphur dioxide in an attempt to fight global warming by “geo-engineering” the planet, despite the fact that injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere carries with it a host of both known and unknown dangers.
The proposal to disperse sulphur dioxide in an attempt to reflect sunlight was discussed in a September 2008 London Guardian article entitled, Geoengineering: The radical ideas to combat global warming, in which Ken Caldeira, a leading climate scientist based at the Carnegie Institution in Stanford, California, promoted the idea of injecting the atmosphere with aerosols. “One approach is to insert “scatterers” into the stratosphere,” states the article. “Caldeira cites an idea to deploy jumbo jets into the upper atmosphere and deposit clouds of tiny particles there, such as sulphur dioxide. Dispersing around 1m tonnes of sulphur dioxide per year across 10m square kilometres of the atmosphere would be enough to reflect away sufficient amounts of sunlight.” Experiments similar to Caldeira’s proposal are already being carried out by U.S. government-backed scientists, such as those at the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, S.C, who last year began conducting studies which involved shooting huge amounts of particulate matter, in this case “porous-walled glass microspheres,” into the stratosphere. The project is closely tied to an idea by Nobel Prize winner Paul Crutzen, who “proposed sending aircraft 747s to dump hugequantities of sulfur particles into the far-reaches of the stratosphere to cool down the atmosphere.” Such programs merely scratch the surface of what is likely to be a gargantuan and overarching black-budget funded project to geo-engineer the planet, with little or no care for the unknown environmental consequences this could engender.
What is known about what happens when the environment is loaded with sulphur dioxide is bad enough, since the compound is the main component of acid rain, which according to the EPA “Causes acidification of lakes and streams and contributes to the damage of trees at high elevations (for example, red spruce trees above 2,000 feet) and many sensitive forest soils.
In addition, acid rain accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable buildings, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation’s cultural heritage.”
The health effects of bombarding the skies with sulphur dioxide alone are enough to raise serious questions about whether such programs should even be allowed to proceed. The following health effects are linked with exposure to sulphur – Neurological effects and behavioral changes – Disturbance of blood circulation – Heart damage – Effects on eyes and eyesight – Reproductive failure – Damage to immune systems – Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder – Damage to liver and kidney functions – Hearing defects – Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism – Dermatological effects – Suffocation and lung embolism
According to the LennTech website, “Laboratory tests with test animals have indicated that sulfur can cause serious vascular damage in veins of the brains, the heart and the kidneys. These tests have also indicated that certain forms of sulfur can cause foetal damage and congenital effects. Mothers can even carry sulfur poisoning over to their children through mother milk. Finally, sulfur can damage the internal enzyme systems of animals.” Fred Singer, president of the Science Environmental Policy Project and a skeptic of man-made global warming theories, warns that the consequences of tinkering with the planet’s delicate eco-system could have far-reaching dangers. “If you do this on a continuous basis, you would depress the ozone layer and cause all kinds of other problems that people would rather avoid,” said Singer. Even Greenpeace’s chief UK scientist – a staunch advocate of the man-made global warming explanation – Doug Parr has slammed attempts to geo-engineer the planet as “outlandish” and “dangerous”. Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, who recently proposed a bizarre plan to send spaceships into the upper atmosphere that would be used to block out the Sun, admits that geo-engineering could cause “conflicts between nations if geoengineering projects go wrong.”
Given all the immediate dangers associated with bombarding the atmosphere with sulphur dioxide, along with the unknown dangers of other geo-engineering projects, many people are concerned that “chemtrails” are a secret component of the same agenda to alter the Earth’s eco-system. The fact that chemtrails are blocking out the sun, which is precisely what the geoengineering advocates call for, strongly indicates that they are an integral part of this dangerous and wide-reaching program.
The Government Is Already Geo Engineering The Environment – This graphic proposes, “Spraying aluminum powder and barium oxide into high levels of the atmosphere, again delivered by aircraft, to increase planetary reflectance (albedo) and cloud cover.” High levels of barium have been found in substances associated with chemtrails. Reports of chemtrails, jet plumes emitted from planes that hang in the air for hours and do not dissipate, often blanketing the sky in criss-cross patterns, have increased dramatically over the last 10 years. Many have speculated that they are part of a government program to alter climate, inoculate humans against certain pathogens, or even to toxify humans as part of a population reduction agenda. In conducting Google searches, one finds discussion, such as this example, of using sulphur dioxide as a jet fuel additive to be dispersed over the world during routine commercial flights. “I suggest that both the sulphur dioxide and the silica particles could be delivered into the stratosphere by dissolving an additive in jet aviation fuel,” writes engineer John Gorman, who has conducted experiments to test the feasibility of such a scenario. “We would want to burn fuel containing the additive specifically when the aircraft was cruising in the lower stratosphere,” he adds.
In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature. The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails.” KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA. KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that “short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems.” The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.
Indeed, barium oxide has cropped up repeatedly as a contaminant from suspected geoengineering experimentation. KSLA also put aerosolized-chemical testing in its historical context, citing a voluminous number of unclassified tests exposed in 1977 Senate hearings. The tests included experimenting with biochemical compounds on the public. KSLA reports that “239 populated areas were contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969.” One of the accepted truisms of scientific study is the fact that if scientists are proposing an idea, then those scientists with access to the bottomless pit of black-budget secret government funding are already doing it. It is highly likely that chemtrails are merely one manifestation of “geo-engineering” that is taking place without proper debate, notification or any form of legality, and with a callous disregard for the potential dangers to both our health and our environment.

This is a classic “chemtrails” exposition. It quotes a long stream of irrelevant references and debunked claims as if they were brand new.

One can only assume that Alex Jones weighed the strength of support for this MYTH and decided he would have some of it.


(Some preliminary chatting and preening has been removed)

Buzzard Says:
Not once does this article mention the fact that cloud cover causes a green house effect and increases global warming effect. this article makes it seam that governments are fighting real global warming, as if it is real. that is a farce. It also never mentions that our US government is also behind this crap, or how extensive a problem this is all over the US. Just imagine our Representative are using our own money to mess up our health and food supply.

Green Leader
The article is bogus, indeed. The problem is widespread among NATO countries. What they do is spray SiO2 to break-up hidrogen bonds in cloud water droplets and reflecting heat back to the soil, increasing global warming. The SiO2 helps create ‘false cirrus’ clouds. The Barium Titanate and Aluminum are for ‘other purposes’. Google Barium Titanate + chemtrails & find out for yourself. The website from Spain I referred just above explains how things are done.

JazzRoc Reply:
1. If silicon dioxide were to be sprayed through a turbofan, it would PLATE and ERODE the exhaust turbine in seconds, the engine would be destroyed in a couple of minutes. Why did they stop flights during the Icelandic ash incident earlier this year?
2. It wouldn’t “break-up hidrogen bonds” if it WERE to be sprayed. The SAND on every seashore in the world is made of it, and the SEA is FULL of hydrogen bonds. Don’t go near the beach, eh?
3. Aluminum is a constituent of CLAY and is found in SOIL. Mechanized agriculture makes DUST. Dust may become wind-borne. Surprisingly, raindrops may encapsulate it, and LO it can fall in your tray. Proof of aluminized chemtrails?
4. Barium titanate is a remarkable material in a multitude of ways, many of them yet to be discovered. But as a material to be in a trail left at NORMAL height, it would only “work” for a few days. The height at which the expense of doing it proves viable is 80,000 feet, which only fighters and the lightly-built U2 can reach. NO “tanker” gets to HALF that altitude.
5. If you really believe that some specialist chemtrail disinfo site in Spain knows something that two hundred thousand qualified atmospheric scientists don’t, then you need to visit a library and ask for help. At least, a library…

Green Leader
Government troll:
1) Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?
2) The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.
3) Clay is flake-like and has a high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). The aluminum dust is nano particulate. When they spray ham radio comms drop. That’s how we first found out we were being sprayed metal dust–the ham freaks spoke up.
4) The Barium and other nasty stuff is sprayed at lower altitudes. I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks–as if farting. The drones have NO numbers, markings, insignia whatsoever. I used to be a very strong man who could do farm work day in and day out. The detox I’ve gone through is painful but am recovering my health.
5) Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist.
6) I know how to treat people and dogs from this illness.
7) The NATO generals behind this will be charged, tried, sentenced and imprisoned for crimes against humanity. There’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Nothing. It’s Yahweh’s fight and he never loses.

JazzRoc Reply:
1) “Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?” – Is it an INVISIBLE spray, then? Then why say the trails laid by the aircraft are “chemtrails”? Surely, if they are INVISIBLE then you wouldn’t have noticed in the first place. And if they ARE visible then they ARE exhaust trails. It’s YOU that is confused here, not me.
2) “The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water’s particular cohesive properties.” – “Nano” merely means VERY SMALL, or measurable in MICROMETERS. The size of a water molecule is 95 PICOMETERS, or at least a HUNDRED TIMES SMALLER. So you want to slice a potato with a battleship?
3) “When they spray ham radio comms drop” – but ham radio comms rise and fall with the passage of day and night, because they are bouncing off the Kennely-Heaviside Layer, which moves dynamically with rising and falling solar illumination. No “spraying” is needed.
4) “I’ve seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks” – A pity you didn’t video it. Do you know that no-one has managed this? Strange, isn’t it? Quite often, people who get older become less physically able. They’ve be known to die, as well, especially when they pass 70 years old.
5) “Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist” I couldn’t care less about your other delusions. Just the delusion that you know anything about science.
6 & 7 prove your delusion.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
JazzRoc is a disinfo agent and for your information the planes spray the stuff from sprayers attached to the bottom of the plane. It is not the exhaust. Furthermore there are lots of video of chemtrails being laid. IdIOT!

fallout4real Reply:
Dude, I can honestly smell the schill emanating from you. Why do waste your time here trying to convince people that what we know is wrong? If your so right why are here? We are just a bunch of crazies!! Why do photos exist of spray nozzles on the belly of these unmarked jets with chemicals pouring out? Why do the pilots of these planes refer to themselves as “human chemtrailer 1? You really need to “Look at the big picture” before you tell us how it is!

JazzRoc Reply:
Yes, you ARE a bunch of crazies. You are keen to slander people you don’t know without ANY evidential basis except your pseudoscience and the lies you tell each other.

You’re lying now, for I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.

Science is based on evidence. It is NOT based on “evidence” gleaned from listening to confidence tricksters like Carnicom which is designed merely to CONFIRM your anti-authoritarian predispositions.
I too am anti-authoritarian, but it didn’t stop me from pursuing a lifetime’s career in engineering.
You all exhibit a laziness to conduct proper research, and a fixed rigidty of mind which makes it very unlikely you will ever understand that talking about “chemtrails” gets you straight into

SCIENCE, and scientists will EJECT you vigorously as soon as you begin to spout PSEUDOSCIENCE.
They say that creationists don’t understand why atheists laugh at them. Well, the same thing exactly applies to “chemtrailers” with scientists and engineers laughing at them too.

fallout4real Reply:
Jazz you call me a liar yet with my crazy little paragraph, I can capture your attention with out writing a book or double think!! I am a small independent business owner and I don’t give a crap what you call me because I don’t depend on the system like you, a simple schill !!!! Wake up or shut up you liar!

FreedomLover Reply:
jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.
Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR. If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people. The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist. NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.
You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.

clockwise lives Reply:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Who is it you think I’m loyal to? I’m loyal to the truth.

fallout4real Reply:

JazzRoc Reply:
TIC: “Don’t be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don’t even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.”
(Titters backstage)

larry Says:
Oil in gulf is raining tirds on yo head.

patrick11 Says:
OK, so chemtrails are the same thing as contrails? I thought they were different!

FreedomLover Reply:
They ARE hugely different. Contrails are just jet exhaust that freezes at high altitude then dissipates fairly quickly. CHEMTRAILS come from the specialized nozzles on wings and/or fuselage of a plane and are sprayed out NOT from the engines. This is a deliberate spraying from chemical tanks inside the aircraft. There are videos all over the web that show fairly close-up views of the spraying, and a couple of photos of the planes on the ground. Just google them – chemtrail planes.

JazzRoc Reply:
They can all be found DEBUNKED on the page entitled “‘Chemtrail’ Aircraft Photos”, here:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Gov. shill alert!

Your abuse doesn’t constitute a strong argument, does it?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
None of your science can debunk that we are being sprayed by military ops. If they were so harmless, they wouldn’t be secret. But logic doesn’t play in, now does it? Continue your disinfo campaign, we will never shut-up about chemtrails.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
How could contrails form from an aircraft flying below a Cumulus cloud, on a beautiful Summer’s day with blue sky and puffy Cumulus clouds? Why, at the end of the day was the entire sky a murky haze? Why did I experience sickness akin to chemical or metallic poisoning, shortly after observing these aircraft leaving trails that lasted all day? I never get sick, except for a cold or two, and especially in Summer. Say what you will, but I cannot come up with an answer to these questions except chemicals being dispersed in the atmosphere by aircraft.
Science is not transparent, a lot of things are being done that defy all moral grounds, and a lot of Scientists are on the payroll of big corporations and will “prove” anything they want the public to believe. I’m sorry, but science is no longer noble, it has become evil and without conscience. Proof: the Global Warming debacle. Pure unabashed hokum, and the idiots are still running around like chickens with their heads cut off going “Global Warming, Global Warming, Global Warming. Oh, I forgot Al Gore is a genius and invented the Internet. Hah-hah, there’s a great fellow who is standing up for “Science” and “Truth”, eh? Got any great quotes from this spokesmen? ( I could use a laff). Things are not all that rosy in the Laboratories, I’m afraid.

JazzRoc Reply:
Contrails can form aerodynamically over the wings of aircraft flying in somewhat warmer, lower and more humid conditions. They look rather different and are cut up by the invisible engine trails. Cumulus clouds normally have a cloudbase between three and fifteen thousand feet, and that UPPER limit is around the LOWER limit for aerodynamic contrails. It seems unlikely to me.
What seems MORE likely is that you mistook a LARGE airplane HIGH up for a SMALLER airplane LOWER down. This is a common mistake to make, as there are no other objects to reference against. To KNOW the true height of an overflying aircraft you need a rangefinder and sextant.
Persistent contrails spread as they fall. Quite often there will be several stratospheric layers each moving horizontally on different headings. This spreads the trail. When the spread trail “meets its doom” it will be at the altitude which has sufficient warmth to evaporate the ice back to water vapor. This will generally be level and flat, so all you will see from underneath is boring greyness.
GW is a rising thermometer. To deny it is the ultimate foolishness. Yes, folks, disregard your thermometers, it’s REALLY COOLING. This argument, of course, is a mere distraction from the plain fact that YOU SHOW AND DISCUSS NO EVIDENCE OF CHEMTRAILS. I’m talking REAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. If you feel such evidence unnecessary, then you need treatment, probably for APOPHENIA.

MontgomeryScott Says:
WOW! The ‘Y’ versus ‘X’ dicotomy is especially ‘active’ on THIS PARTICULAR WEB-POSTING!

PS: A way to slightly lighten up the point that is attempting on being made here.

soupofdefish Says:
Funny you all act like you all doubted this until same asshole tells you its so. I grew up next to a base and seen planes all my life. Contrails always faded out quickly. Then one day Around 1980 I noticed them staying longer. I mentioned this to my mom but got the usual shrug kids get. Been talking about it ever since. Then I found internet and seen that many others noticed. Didn’t feel so alone after that. I didn’t need some dick weed to tell me they are not natural. I was a dumb kid and could tell the difference. What is wrong with the rest of the people that they could not remember when contrails always faded away? The rest of you need some f—ing conviction!

FreedomLover Reply:
Don’t be too hard on the sheeple. I didn’t know about any of this 2 years ago. At first I didn’t want to believe it either. Somebody spraying me like a bug to kill me (slowly)? What normal person would want to wrap their mind around the truth that some jerk they didn’t even know wants them dead? It’s awfully mind-blowing. And extremely stressful to know there is no way to get to them to stop them. Try to get on one of the military facilities where these planes are based and you’ll get shot first, then if you’re still alive they will interrogate your arse,probably never seeing the outside of a detention facility ever again!

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Welcome to the club. Sometimes it makes more sense to bash yer head against the wall, than try to convince people as to what is happening, right in their faces. Anyways, good for you and your observations. We’ve got to keep on pushing, even if it seems futile. Try turning people on to the documentary “Aerosol Crimes” by Clifford Carnicom, it’s a real eye-opener.

Soupofdefish, FreedomLover, and Johnny Canuck: I’ve been around airports all my life. I saw my first persistent trail at age ten in 1954. I knew what it was even then. That’s the way it is when you are fascinated with aircraft, and learn to build and fly model ones. You might have grown up to study Science and become an aeronautical engineer as I did and actually MEASURED exactly what the output of a turbojet is. Then you would discover that the BRICK WALL you are forever bashing your heads against is actually a PERSONAL PROBLEM. The problem is that of only accepting statements that CONFIRM your prejudices. This is ENTIRELY OPPOSITE to the way Science must be directed in order for it to succeed. Your minds contain only pseudoscience. This will make you into a human lemming, apt to swarm and dive off cliffs when confronted by social pressures.

Tough. Get out of it if you wish to save your neck.

FreedomLover Reply:
Your overinflated ego is so huge I’m surprised you haven’t exploded yet. Get out there and blow your horn some more. You’re not loud enough yet. While you’re at it, blow some more smoke. You’re still visible. You want to see a jerk with personal problems, look in the mirror. I already know I’m a jerk, that’s why I needed and still need a Saviour. You haven’t found out yet. Pity.

JazzRoc Reply:
I reckon being alive gives everyone a personal problem, don’t you? Prepackaged solutions involving the superstitions of a nomadic tribe 4,000 years ago aren’t likely to solve the problems of the modern world, are they? You have been coddled in an industrialized age, and passively waiting for the chickens to come home to roost. Meanwhile you’re carrying out a terrorist attack upon the passenger air transport industry because you BELIEVE, without the slightest proof, that aircraft are poisoning the sky, when it is KNOWN (by air samplers everywhere) that air contaminants are entirely normal, and that the trails visible in the sky, in all their forms, have been known and understood since they were first observed in 1921. This manifestation of your uneducated state strikes at the social cohesion of our society. You ARE the “dark forces” that your “Revelations” predicts.

And you are a very intelligent black ops disinfo agent. The proof is all around yet you deny it. I’m anything but passive. I have no intention of denying anyone air transport. This world as we know it, is coming to an end. You yourself don’t deny that the air is polluted, and you also deny the source(s) of the pollution. Yes, your horn is loud enough now, you satanic lying freak.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
RIGHT ON sodf! When in doubt use your own logic!

I wouldn’t know. I’m not in doubt, and YOU are NOT logical.

Texas IdentityCrisis
Oh, you mean you are not in doubt that chemtrails are harmless contrails and you can’t recognize any logic from me? I’m trying to tell ya, lay off the flouride, the GMO, the vaccines, stay outta the chemtrails…..it’s really hard to think on that stuff.

JazzRoc Reply:
I am in no doubt whatsoever that ALL the trails you see in the sky are HARMLESS.
Fluoride is a soluble halogen salt which is EASILY eliminated by the human body if it meets a SMALL excess. The body REQUIRES trace amounts of it.
Genetic modifications are in general NO DIFFERENT from NATURAL MUTATIONS, except that they are DIRECTED. Natural mutations can be “dangerous” too. I share with you anxiety about some mutational possibilities. I wouldn’t want a world full of TRIFFIDS any more than you. I don’t eat GM food.
Vaccines aren’t “risk-free”, any more than cycling is. But they offer a world without epidemics, which is like offering a world without war. Take the opportunity (accept them), or not, where you increase your own risk od disease considerably, and increase everyone else’s risk to a certain extent. This latter position is IMMORAL.
I live on Tenerife in the Canary Islands in the sub-tropical Atlantic Ocean. Virtually no overflights…

FreedomLover Reply:
No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.
I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.
The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.

This is what happens when Americans repeatedly elect neotards who believe they are smart enough to think for the rest of us but who in reality possess the cognitive powers of a stone.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
This is also what happens when you let the Military Industrial Complex do whatever it wants.

JazzRoc Reply:
It didn’t want to dumb YOU down, but here you are…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Oh, you speak for the MIC?

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course not. I was involved politically in the early seventies when the neocons dismantled further education in Britain – being a teacher at that time.

kingkurtis Says:
i sold cars in 2000 in Washington st. (on the coast, Mount Vernon)…in car sales, there are periods of standing and waiting, outside, with many sales staff. I noticed the criss cross lines of what i thought was vapor. What was compelling was that the lines, widened out, and changed what was a sunny warm day, into a totally cloudy day. The individual spray lines, would just widen out and join with the other expanding lines….and you could see the definition of the edges of the now puffy trails. you could actually see the overall sky picture if you will was a textured pattern like a huge quilt. Like a blanket whose pattern is obvious. The people I worked with were as stunned as i was. A few days certain planes actually turned in huge arcs, and went back to where they came from. Leaving a circle cloud….no kidding…Having just gotten internet in ‘99, i did some clicking and yes this is real. Plane height is not the deal either, if you can count the engines, it aint 30000 feet. Human eye cant discern a plane at 5 miles.3 yes. At least better. Still have spraying here. This summer, it hasnt reached 75 yet. Not since last September….my 2 cents

JazzRoc Says:
“Amateur” people without ANY understanding of how to conduct science have coined a whole new range of terms and created a pseudoscience which has packed the WEB so densely that it has become almost impossible to find REAL SCIENCE in it.
People trying to distinguish the TRUTH through this fog of innocent MYTH and malevolent DISINFORMATION have this task to do:
Use the EXCLUDE WORDS function to exclude the following words:
Scientists will NEVER use the above words in their experimental reports.
Then search for:
“paper aviation saturated atmosphere contrails”
The last time I looked, this search got 645 scientific research papers.
Any one of them will show the depths of ignorance plumbed by “chemtrails”.
The whole concept of “chemtrils” is a worthless and meaningless FIFTH COLUMN, a powerful distraction from solving the problems of respiratory disease, agriculture and industrialization, global warming, global dimming, TRUE conspiracies (whatever they may be), and social cohesion.
“Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS, sometimes unwitting, sometimes not. It’s about time we all dispelled this product of ignorance and fear

FreedomLover Reply:
Wow, how deluded can you get? Peer review is just a bunch of like-minded paid assassins slapping each other on the back. I’m sure there are good scientists out there, but just like any other leadership-related career, if you’re not willing to work with the globalists and keep your mouth shut about the real agendas, you end up dead. Exclude all the conspiracies the govt has against us and you get purely the rhetoric and propaganda.

JazzRoc Reply:
We are all capable of self-delusion. All you have to be is unaware.
In your case you are unaware that the Earth has been busy contaminating and decontaminating itself for aeons, and that ALL insoluble material in the atmosphere ends up as sediment on the ocean floor, and all the soluble material will dissolve in the sea.
Exclude Man from this and the Earth wouldn’t notice at all.
You are unaware that anybody with science training can spot you at once as a person who merely researches to prove a point you already believe. Because of YOUR belief system there is NO WAY you can ever allow yourself to change your mind. Your mind, in a sense, is ALREADY BROKEN, and any conclusions you come to will be increasingly worthless over time.
Peer review is conducted anonymously or not at all.
The very fact that you adhere to the belief that engine trails contain metals (or biological material) CONFIRMS your lack of reasoning ability, for if that were to be true, the the engine trail GAP would be bright green or brilliant pink/white, the engine would be destroyed in seconds, and NO biologicals withstand 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit.
So you make unsubstantiated and impossible claims, call me deluded, and infer that I’m deluded?
Though never having met a “globalist”, I’m sure I’d prefer it to meeting you with your mindless pseudoscience and baseless slander…

FreedomLover Reply:
For your information, the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet. I didn’t know any of this prior to 18 months ago, but reading about it and seeing it happen right before my eyes, putting the pieces together (which you have miserably failed to do or you are a disinfo agent), is what is known as “waking up”. I never believed that biologicals and these metallic salts come from fuel exhaust and never SAID that, but are sprayed from tanks inside the planes, not coming in contact with the jet fuel. I stated so in one of my earlier posts. So you really wanted to attack me without bothering to read what I wrote. You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people, when they have been QUOTED saying they want 90% of the population gone? THAT is what makes you a disinfo agent. Ignoring all evidence presented except what promotes YOUR theory. Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

JazzRoc Reply:
“the earth doesn’t spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet”
Yes it does. There are at least 11,500 active volcanoes working day and night. So you’re WRONG.
“are sprayed from tanks inside the planes” – INTO WHERE? There are no switches, pipes, or tanks that fit that description. The trails laid as recorded by YT videos are all coming from the engines of passenger jets in the stratosphere. The extraordinary notion that the hundreds of thousands of aircraft half had some sort of “black” retrofit needs some EXTRAORDINARY PROOF, of which you supply NONE.
“You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth’s people”
NO. I want to exclude the words of liars and mythmakers from the thermodynamics that occurs when aircraft fly in the stratosphere. While you make up lies about this you must be excluded. Strangely enough, if you follow my recommendations you DO actually find words written by ordinary non-fraudulent and non-mendacious scientists. Science is successful because it includes NO LIES about the natural world. My theory IS that of atmospheric science. I can produce a long list of chemtrail FRAUD. It’s the only thing you people cling to.  “Truthseekers”? What an irony….

Texas IdentityCrisis
I guess JazzRoc never heard of Climategate, which is evident by his utter worship and blind eye for scientists.
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemrl dot htm
If it were up to me, you’d be tied to a chair under the chemtrails everyday. Then we could do experiments on YOU, to see if there are any unhealthy results of the constant exposure.

Green Leader Reply:
I would make him eat chemtrail-contaminated iguana meat breakfast, lunch & dinner for an extended period of time. But then, he might claim he got sick because iguana meat is forbidden by the Torah.

JazzRoc Reply:
Hey, funny! Nothing to do with the topic, though. More to do with you than me, I think…

Texas IdentityCrisis
I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.

Bumper Sticker Says:
Chemtrails are like pest spray, and we’re the pests!

inalienable rights Says:
To the commentators who claim that chemtrails have existed since WWII and are not new to our skies: I’ve flown the USA since the early 1950s and at no time did we ever see chemtrails such as we see now. Starting in the 1990s there has been a major, significant, and alarming change. There is absolutely NO resemblance to current chemtrails compared to the ‘con’ trails of pre-1990s. If commentators claim that chemtrails existed since WWII, they can only mean that there was a sporatic testing done in those years that was not part of the USA or world skies. To say that today’s chemtrail world crisis has existed previously is in my opinion, a total lie or misrepresentation. All accurate observers since the 1940s would agree with this opinion.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Thank you for your info. It’s disheartening knowing this stuff is real, and having people look at you like you are a Looney Tune.

JazzRoc Reply:
Well, I’ve seen the videos of film shot on the 1000-bomber raids which shows the skies turning white with persistent spreading contrails. For about fifteen years there was a bit of a lull in air travel due to the expenses involved bucketing about the troposphere at 250 mph. Then pressurized transport at 550 mph in the stratosphere became possible, and air travel increased by fifty times. All accurate observers agree that persistent contrails (dubbed “chemtrails” by some) have existed ever since they were first created in, er, 1921.

I gotta say, I just feel better lately that I havent seen them for a while, I mean, more at peace around the phenom, I took pics, made vids, posted links, joined forums, commented here, and over all, Im kinda tired of it, It stresses Me out, I just came to the conclusion that the planes are leaving long lingering jet trails of Sh8T in the sky, period, Its just that simple, and its depressing and dissapointing and MUST affect the Planet, or WILL eventually, in a very BAD way, I dont care whether its tanker planes or CIA Evergreen airlines or global geoengineering, we ALL see it, all over the sky and theres NO debate on that! If you run your car in a closed garage, it will kill you..RIGHT? so whats the difference? give it some time, a few years, and it will be common knowledge that mankind done F*cked up w/ the planes, the oil, the food, the water, the meds, the vaccines, the wars, the economy, the cloning, the chemicals and toxins in everything, just, be aware of it all man, thats all..

JazzRoc Says:
Those trails are very nearly pure ice – so pure they could probably out-compete your tapwater in purity.
The combusted kerosine and air deep in the heart of the multi-spool turbofan become a mix of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, steam, and trace compounds at a temperature of 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit. This mix is transparent at that temperature, and you see a GAP before the trail forms. That gap represents the time it takes to COOL to MINUS 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
The STEAM part resolves to microscopic droplets of supercooled water nucleated around trace compound molecules, which freeze over a second or so to ice. However, this isn’t happening in a vacuum, but in a cold low-pressure mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor, the atmosphere of the stratosphere.
Water seems simple at first glance, but it has the unusual properties of supercooling, superheating, and supersaturation.
Supersaturation is the property that water has of dissolving in excess as vapor into a TOTALLY CLEAN atmosphere. The addition of ANY FINE PARTICLES into a volume of air in such a cold and supersaturated state will cause INSTANT SNOW.
As these particles of SNOW fall through this supersaturated layer of the stratosphere, they will PUT ON WEIGHT BY A FACTOR OF TEN THOUSAND. THAT is why you see trails. THAT is why I’m telling you it’s purer than your tapwater.
DO the math. Of course, you still have the unalienable right to crash, if you wish.

FreedomLover Reply:
Troll alert.

JazzRoc Reply:
Your lying makes you the troll.

Johnny Canuck Reply:
Mind the gap! You know, the one between your ears!

JazzRoc Reply:
Sorry, it’s all filled in with an understanding of atmospheric science and turbofan thermodynamics, cosmology, design in the aviation and manufacturing industries, music, and art.

FreedomLover Reply:
Your “gap” is filled with BS globalist propaganda. Bet your eyes are brown.

JazzRoc Reply:
Hazel. Gone over to grey.
As an anarchist for over forty years, “globalist propoganda” isn’t of much interest to me, thanks.
It might be nice to have only one govt. There again. it might not. It would depend on its transparency and accessibility. Not having “national interests” to address, there would be NO NEED for secrecy, would there? Except for business secrets.
Freedom is an abstract concept. The practical reality of freedom is that it is the measure of both your ability to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and REMAIN VIGILANT. If you fall down with either of these you shall not be free.

You have a problem with both…
FREEDOM and RESPONSIBILITY are mutually-exclusive. THAT is what makes freedom an abstraction.
You may LOVE it, but you CAN’T have it…

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Then drink it moron. You’ll never convince anyone here, we don’t drink the tap.

Here in Southwestern Washington, I wonder how much spraying is happening when overcast? Makes me want to take cover when seeing mass chemtrail spraying, followed by clouds and rain. So, how many of ya all have your nuke/chemical survival kits?

JazzRoc Reply:
It will still be happening – even when you don’t see it.
Conditions in the stratosphere are STABLE and rarely affected by the troposphere (which you experience).
Ice will come of solution in the atmosphere and deposit itself upon the trail WHENEVER the layer an airplane flies through a stratospheric layer which happens to be SATURATED with water vapor.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Right, that’s why these poison planes fly back and forth, round and round, in front of the sun and moon. Tell it to your dumbed down granny.

JazzRoc Reply:
There aren’t any “poison planes” – just passenger planes.
There are 87,000 DAILY overflights of the US. That’s EVERY DAY.
You see them when you see their trails. You almost never see them otherwise.
You assume, when there are no trails, that there are NO planes. FAIL.
You also assume that the same plane turned round to spray YOU again. FAIL.
You seem as intelligent as my cat. Sorry, Claws.

semicollegiate Says:
It could be that the new fuel efficient engines put out more clean water and that is the reason for bigger streaks. It could be that the planes are mapping out the exact top of the troposphere for future use. They want to know where to place a given technology to get a specific effect.

JazzRoc Reply:
The new fuel efficient engines ARE marginally more efficient, but that isn’t the point.
They are TEN TIMES larger than the engines in the Boeing 707s that began the fifty-fold expansion of air travel, and burn TEN TIMES more fuel to make a trail TEN TIMES bigger than they were in the fifties.
The troposphere is an oblate spheroid of air which swivels its axis wrt the earth from summer to winter. It is turbulent, always in motion, and is mapped daily by satellite-borne scientific instruments.
This has been happening since the eighties.
Knowing the temporary topology of the tropopause has no utility for geoengineering because any materials would be rainwashed to the sea the next time a cumulonimbus anvil swept by.
The troposphere is DYNAMIC and TURBULENT.

semicollegiate Reply:
Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.
The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting expirience in maintianing flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever. Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.

JazzRoc Reply:
“Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn’t burn all of the fuel run through them.”
Combustion efficiency was the first thing I studied as an undergraduate. This WASN’T “book-learning”, by-the-way, it was “hands-on” a whole variety of internal and external combustion engines, including turbojets. The achievement of near-perfect combustion in a flame tube was well-understood by the Germans and the British by 1940.
No, the “increase in efficiency” of modern turbofans is achieved by ducting and convecting as much heat as possible to the annular ring of compressed air BEHIND THE FAN. This RAISES PRESSURE, and therefore ADDS to the THRUST already contributed by the COMBUSTION PART OF THE MOTOR. Additionally, the cylinder of cooler air around the hotter air reduces the noise which the process makes.
Pressures and temperatures inside these engines are INTENSE: ALL the components that follow combustion are made from very high-grade steel alloys, and are hollow and have cold air passing through them, otherwise they’d be GONE…
The real reason they make bigger trails is that they are BIGGER ENGINES.
“The advertisements that I’ve heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting experience in maintaining flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever.”
A radar system will “see” ANY conductive material which has a cross-sectional length which is SIMILAR to the wavelength of the signal that the radar set transmits.  Satellites such as GOES already have laser equipment which can MEASURE the size of ice crystals in contrails or cirrus. Also LIDAR is used from ground stations for the same purpose. You don’t have to FLY to collect such data.
http ://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
Also, all long/medium distance large aircraft are directed by ATC to fly at a specific height in the stratosphere. They are NOT directed through bumpy and low-visibility parts of the troposphere, where they might meet transponderless VFR light aircraft, except of course for take-off and landing. “Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.” Oh, yes!
http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU6M5hAe-TU

Interesting info thanks. It stands to reason that engines are bigger because classes of planes which had 4 engines in the past now typically have 2 engines. I didn’t know that this was from a 10 fold increase in power. Unstated but in mind by me, my mistake, was that more efficient engines have cleaner, simpler, purer exhaust. Impurities usually cause agglutinization and therefore cleaner exhaust leaves more individual particles. More particles means larger volume, larger surface area, and bigger trails.
I think the chemtrail assertion is not proven but is possible. Your comment, the fact about Arkansas being a Barium mining area, thanks again, is something I would have noticed before I made a final judgment about it.

At the Prison Planet Forum, from which I’ve been banned, I suggested taking samples at the surface of the soil and comparing them to samples taken deeper in the groung. If the Barium was from spraying it would have a higher concentration on the surface. That still would NOT prove spraying because man puts water everywhere and water can have Ba.
In the second point the paper states “It is based upon the fortuitous occurrence of an unusual set of essentially parallel contrails”. Some of the contrails that make true believers are single contrails that over the course of hours spread out to cover 20 to 30 % of a clear sky with a dubiously off-white, with a hint of prismatic spectrum, slimy polymer looking cloud.
I have had a few flying lessons in very old Cessenas and I wondered if there is a design of private aiplane in which the pilot could visually inspect all of the load bearing metal. Everytime we did climbing stalls I worried about it.
I bet the formulae in that vortex video are complex functions of god-awful integrals.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
They want to own the world through weather, think about it, he who can control the weather can rule the world! Plus, they can make people sick and kill them slowly, while making millions off their sickness. EUGENICS and WAR is what this is all about!

JazzRoc Reply:
Nobody can control the weather. To make it do what you want, you’d HAVE to relinquish control elsewhere. You need to understand the size of the Earth. (CLUE: its surface area is FIFTY times greater than that of the United States.)
In the US, OVEREATING “makes people sick and kills them slowly”. Supersize YOU.
Educated people don’t discuss “eugenics” anymore since they understand genetics and evolution, and KNOW that fascist “master race” manipulation will NEVER WORK unless you resort to COMPLETE EXTINCTION. This latter is possibly only achievable through a massive nuclear spasm or an asteroid strike.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
For a scientist, you are pretty naive.

JazzRoc Reply:
For a non-scientist, you are worse than the usual.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
To JazzRockforBrains – http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_control

semicollegiate Reply:
I saw a weather effect in early july 2006, I think it was the 10th. After the 4th anyway. Heading north on I-5 in Northern California there was an unusual storm. Clear sky above and to the east. On the west from the southern horizon to the northern horizon was a solid cloud bank. Looked like fog, like one big cloud, like a rolled tarp, but it was 5000 to 10000 feet up. Right in the middle on the front easternmost edge, was a single cumulonimbus cloud shaped like the forcastle of a sailing ship without the spar. “Laying” on top of that were 15 or so parallel and evenly spaced contrails whose ends formed a circle. Like a webber bbq grill without the ring around edge laying on the front of a 10 foot long model of a 17th century sailing ship. First thing that came to mind for me was HAARP but I suppose formation flying could have caused the same arrangement.
That particular storm caused forest fires throughout northern california, summoned fire brigades from all over the west, and burned until the first rain in October. Nobody else at the couple truckstops I was at saw it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Keep watching, what JazzRoc doesn’t get, is the best scientists are the ones who observe.

semicollegiate Reply:
They are above the law. Or maybe the law is tailor made for them. They don’t need us to grow food or beat up their neighbors anymore.

American Truth Says:
Anyone having breathing problems! I am and also lost my voice VCD

Snow Reply:
I am and for some reason, I’m getting thirsty.

Marc Says:
Here in Frankfurt Rhein Main region (Germany) has been covered by chem trails daily for many years.

JazzRoc Says:
This is a quote from a scientific paper entitled “ON THE POSSIBILITY OF WEATHER MODIFICATION BY AIRCRAFT CONTRAILS”:
“It is then evident that, whenever and wherever persistent contrails are being produced, the airlines are conducting a seeding operation in which each passing aircraft deposits nuclei in numbers at least comparable to a ground-based seeding attempt. The coverage is global in extent, and while random in the sense that airline flights are not scheduled with weather modification in mind, it is not really random with respect to meteorological conditions.”

“Fine,” you might say, “this is EXACTLY what we’re talking about.”
But when was this written?

Click to access rescu…..0-0745.pdf

So what does the page heading “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” by Paul Joseph Watson for Prison Planet.com, Friday, July 2, 2010 REALLY MEAN?
Has it JUST suddenly discovered this 1970 science paper? Was this paper secret?
No. The paper wasn’t secret. Scientists don’t work in secrecy, but TRANSPARENTLY, with both friends and enemies able to read every word they write. They did so then, and they do so now.
This journalist, and Prison Planet also, were slipshod in their work and never got ANYWHERE NEAR where the truth lies. I don’t think they believe in real research at all. They only wish to promote their current agenda.
If you REALLY wish to discover the real truth then follow the procedures laid out in my first comment here. If you do, you will rediscover the link I mention here.
For those of you who do not wish to see this, well find something else to do. I think even less of you than you of me, believe me. Don’t ask me to go into details.

Dunagan Says:
Sulfur is possibly one of the chemicals eroding the ozone layer, by acting as a catalyst for halides. Once you get rid of that you create an endless dependency on the chem-trailing industry to block UV artificially. Sulfur is considered bad enough that reusable washable scrubbers are require in Australia on diesel vehicles. Synthetic diesel is another solution. The practice in North-America was to add metal nanoparticles to diesel fuel to hide the pollution and make it invisible. It proved to be disastrous to the environment however. Just be warned about Mad Scientists — they will do things that are absolutely wrong at times. The largest chem-trail contractor I believe is the CIA company Evergreen. So the people that have in the past sprayed the population with poisonous chemicals, using people as experimental lab rats, are in behinds this madness. Would you rather trust nature or the CIA to decide what you breath. God give us a break from the insanity.

Green Leader Reply:
Yahweh has taken this matter personal. Watch what will happen to those responsible – you WILL laugh!

JazzRoc Reply:
I’m laughing now.
300,000,000 tons of sulfur dioxide blew into the stratosphere when Tambora erupted.
What happened as a consequence? The Earth cooled by a couple of degrees for a couple of years…
It is NOT POSSIBLE to “get rid of” the ozone layer. Ozone is made CONTINUALLY by the absorption of the energy of SUNSHINE by molecules of OXYGEN.
The season why stratospheric temperature increases with altitude is BECAUSE the by-product of this energy exchange is an INCREASE in thermal energy. The UV wavelengths responsible are absorbed by the TOP of the atmosphere first, and are GONE by the time they have reached as far down as the tropopause. As for the “CIA deciding” what you breathe – I just KNOW you are innumerate with respect to the size of the Earth. The area of the United States is ONE FIFTIETH the area of the Earth.
Fear management is best achieved by EDUCATION. You should try it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
You should stop listening to the lies of secret military ops disinfo campaign and the nefarious scientist who help create it. Every wonder why so many scientist die every year? All one needs is logic to figure things out. I knew something was up just through observation and having been around before this spray campaign went full on. Scientists tried to convince us of global warming, they destroyed real evidence which didn’t agree. Fortunately infowarriors are educated and observant.

JazzRoc Reply:
Their lies or YOUR lies – interest me not at all. You aren’t at all aware of how tramelled your mind is, and you’ve already spent FAR too much time accepting ideas which CONFIRM your preconceptions, and rejecting everything that doesn’t fit. In effect, you have damaged your mind. Don’t give it a thought. I don’t.

FreedomLover Reply:

RBBB Says:
The newscast was from a t.v. station in Louisiana. The pics at the chemtrails section of my website: reverendbillybobbuck.com/aapip are from Louisiana. All taken by me. Be sure to pick up the 3 songs for download, gratis, in the music section. Take it easy.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Hey Truth Brings Freedom, The chemtrails have stopped over Central Texas for about the last six weeks. If the chemtrails were only ordinary jet exhaust, how do you explain their recent vanishing? This is when my friends and family finally got it. I asked them why they didn’t see any chemtrails recently? I asked them if JET TRAVEL had suddenly ceased during the past month and a half? Well, what happened, have all the jets been grounded? Have people stopped flying? I don’t know why they’ve stopped, but I am glad they are not spraying us here. Easy way to wake people up, I talk to my sons so that others can here us at soccer games or at the park. I’ll say “Wow, why no lines in the sky, nobody flying today”

truthbringsfreedom Reply:
Between flightpath changes (they do change you know) and weather changes, contrails have been that sporadic for my entire life. Not trying to prove you wrong, just relating my personal experience. I can go for days without seeing one jet in the sky, and then see 7 in one day. Same goes for contrails behind the jets. One thing is for certain… long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that. If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. And by the way… doesn’t Bush live in Texas along with a bunch of other globalist elites? Do you really think he would be poisoning the air he breathes every day. Think. Obviously they take the fluoride out of their water. But do you really think he gets alerts for when they’re spraying and goes into a special room with its own oxygen generator and doesn’t go outside for 3 days?

dead_squirrel Reply:
Bush bought real estate properties in Latin America, so it would be foolish not to think bush would not travel in there without your knowledge (why not help the extermination of a nation that hates him and fly constantly?). Latin America doesn’t get as much chemtrails as other countries because the fraudsters consider it a piece a cake compared to US and it is where many of these small people make their big pharma investments. -squirley

GoodShootinTex Reply:
truth?brings freedom, what do you mean flightpath changes, that is laughable and a complete fraud to even pretend that flights are not taking place over central texas with our civil and military tansportation hubs. Are you ignorant or a troll. Flights take place over my house EVERY day of the year, all year, year in and year out. If they are taking place, and weather patterns are fairly stable (especially in the upper atmosphere) why have the chemtrails stopped? FACT: Chemtrails have stopped for about the last six weeks FACT: Flights have continued
… How much does the NWO pay you to troll?

Hey GoodShootinTex, Have you ever seen it go for 6 weeks without raining? I have. That is weather related. There can be perfectly legitimate reasons that contrails are not occurring for 6 weeks. I’m not ignorant or a troll. I’m *not* trying to disprove chemtrailing. I’m trying to get you and inforwars to admit truth as part of getting to the bottom of all this. Let’s start with one truth, one piece of common ground we can agree on. There is at least one thing for certain, given the history of aviation photos available to the public. Long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that? Well, can you? If not, then you’re in denial of the truth. The truth is out there, but instead you see “trolls” and “ignorant people” on the “NWO payroll” if they acknowledge it. You’re a nutcase dude.
Also, dead_squirrel, you have no proof whatsoever that Bush leaves TX when they spray. You’re just making stuff up to provide evidence for your conspiracy. Sorry, your imagination is not what I consider “best evidence.” Also, there are more elitist globalists in TX than just Bush. Let me guess, they all fly to Bush’s property together, right?
Also, Wash. D.C. is full of globalists. However, there are contrails all over the skys of DC and VA. and MD, where they all live. So according to you, these people are knowingly poisoning themselves. Does that make any sense to you? Then why do you want me to believe it?

JazzRoc Reply:
A jet exhaust turns into a trail when the increased humidity of the air it has just flown through approaches saturation.
Quite often as the trail expands, the humidty drops below critical and then the trail appears to vanish.
I say “appears to” because, of course, the COLUMN of increased water vapor concentration remains, but is no longer visible.
I can show you vids of long-lasting contrails from 1943, and eyewitness accounts as well.
Whatever the ex-president does (he’s probably conspiring somewhere right now). I’m sure he doesn’t waste his time conforming to the straightjacket of an ignorant myth.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Plus, watch the sides of the sky, they are still spraying! I have noticed a reduced spraying in the past few weeks in E. TX. Beautiful skies and clouds like I haven’t seen in a loooong time.
But they haven’t stopped completely. But good idea pointing out that flights are still as normal, but the chemtrails aren’t

dead_squirrel Says:
SO they wanna keep the atmosphere cooler? I say we make it hotter despite the obvious global warming phenom… If all these chemicals go down it’s ’cause they are heavier than the air below. If that’s so, then the air below them, if hotter, will cause the particles to glide down towards the cooler air streams. Hot air goes up, cooler air goes wherever the wind blows.
I’m gonna try installing mirrors flat on the ground on my neighborhood, every one else may copy this in order to dispel these hot particles to areas other than your home. I can’t guarantee they’ll work for nightime spraying though. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
You will have to modify your theory, because although the temperature gets COLDER as you climb until it gets as cold as MINUS ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DEGREES FAHRENHEIT at the tropopause (25,000 feet), then after that the temperature RISES.
The stratosphere (where long-distance aircraft operate) is STABLE and layered BECAUSE its temperature rises with altitude.
Trails made at 35,000 feet have TWO MILES to fall downwards into progressively-cooling air, and this is what they do.
Particles remaining in a gas cannot have a temperature different from the gas.
In the case of engine exhausts, the gas molecules (of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and superheated steam) take about an EIGHTH of a second to cool from 1,300 degrees C to -40 degrees C.
That’s pretty fast…

dead_squirrel Reply:
My guess is that the particles fall at night then. So you’re right, the theory needs revision. But at night there is a need to know where the highest concentration of particles are. A laser visible at night and dawn using Raleigh scattering should be a chemtrail hunter’s tool. -squirley

JazzRoc Reply:
A GOES satellite is in orbit doing just that. Ground stations using LIDAR are also used.

Click to access sa…..MC2006.pdf

Of course, these scientists (hundreds of them using the world’s finest instrumentation) appear to know nothing, for they find that trails are made of ICE – with tiny NON-METALLIC impurities.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just as in the “global warming” hoax, which proof was leaked (thank you hackers), much of technology and its “documented” results has been hidden from what the NWO calls “sheeple”.
The proof was leaked that the so-called scientists cooked the books to make global warming look real, when it is only a scam to push the cap & trade tax through. The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water. Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people. Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.

Texas IdentityCrisis
Check out chemtrail busters, they do exactly what you are describing.

GoodShootinTex Says:
Earlier this spring when we were still getting sprayed, I would walk through the lawn and my feet would be covered with a fine grained reddish dust. I would have to wash my feet and legs with the hose. Now that they have stopped spraying us, I don’t have to wash that cr@p off my feet anymore. I should have gotten a sample and let Texas A&M tell me what was in it. If it starts again, I will find out. When the Revolution occurs, the people who ordered this upon us should be strung and hung. Buy guns, ammo, food, and water purification tools. See You at the Riots!

crazycanuck Says:
I read recently that sperm whales have high amounts of heavy metals in their blubbler, particularly aluminum and cadmium which are in chemtrails. Aluminum is in treated water supply so could be coming from both chemtrails and water effluent. Not a great deal of pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply.

Insanity Says:
Poison, I can believe, like in Moonraker, kill us all off when they’ve got the cleanup solution stashed away. I can also picture them triggering an ice age, or even just cooling off the planet a bit to contract agricultural activity and starving off billions of people. I also see them trying to position themselves for an artificial fresh water shortage. Bottom line, these people are sick, twisted and you are all fools for paying anything into their system. Why can’t you stop shopping at Walmart, buying new cars, and why don’t you buy a lathe or a set of tools or something instead of a worthless plasma screen? Get building your own local system and they can’t terrorize you anymore with theirs.

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t believe they have the time for much in that direction. Nor do they have the capability.
The real damage “they” are doing to the US is in allowing groundwater contamination and destroying field topsoil by plowing. With reduced microclimate wind protection (they’ve chopped down the trees) the topsoil just BLOWS AWAY.
But I’m just talking about manufacturing administrators, local politians, and farmers here…
Who EXACTLY do you mean by “they”?

Highlanderess Says:
All those side effects huh? Well, maybe that explains the behaviors of all the nutcases I have to speak with on a daily bases on my call center job.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Notice on heavy chemtrail days how people seem stressed to the nines.

Green Leader Reply:
1) dogs desperately try to get indoors.
2) birds don’t fly around nor sing
3) meteorologists on TV look scared
4) surviving remaining bees stay in the hive
5) there are no rainbows
6) cumulus clouds dissapear and false cirrus appear
7) Green Leader curses the uncircumsized infidels destroying nature

JazzRoc Reply:
That’s apophenia. You are looking for signs to CONFIRM your preconceptions. That will REALLY ruin your (or someone else’s) existence one day. It’s the same sort of behavior which led to the torturing and killing of old single women as “witches”. The “test” was to “duck” them in the local pond. If they came up drowned, they were INNOCENT (but went to Heaven, obviously). If they came up alive, they were GUILTY, and were burnt at the stake. NICE.
Any animal with body fat will accumulate heavy metals there. Do you have fat? You’re doing it too. Heavy metals are part of the earth, as is Life itself. You will find them in soil. Plants you eat grow in that. Do the metals go straight through them to you? No. Not exactly. The plant wil sequester and excrete the metals. Why? Because aeons ago plants that didn’t, died.
You are no different from the plants. You also sequester and excrete heavy metals. You and the plants are both in a state of dynamic equilibrium, and can (and do) take a certain amount of contamination in your stride. Aluminum IS used to DEFLOCCULATE the water supply. It does this job as an INSOLUBLE compound which DOES NOT go on to contaminate the supply.
So WHY would there be “pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply” when “chemtrails” are a MYTH, and there’s NO “aluminization”?

Texas IdentityCrisis
I guess increased cancer, Alzheimer’s and asthma, etc., have nothing to do with anything. Just it’s in the earth and the earth is causing all these increases in disease despite your beloved scientists/science. I guess volcanoes are causing these increases YA SCIENCE EXPERIMENT FREAK!

JazzRoc Reply:
Everything ALWAYS has SOMETHING to to with anything. Cancers form from irritation and genetic predisposition. Alzheimer’s is caused by dietary problems and genetic predisposition. Asthma is an allergic reaction to do with the genetic predisposition of the immune system and exposure to pollens, dusts, and diesel particulates. Your identity crisis follows from your inadequacy in maths and science and a certain gullibility.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, everything is due to genetics. That’s science for ya! Get real douche.

JazzRoc Reply:
NO. Everything is due to COMBINATIONS of these inputs with genetics. The inputs are variables. The genetics may respond in multitudinous ways to such variables. Of course, I forget, you’re intellectually-challenged. Tip: science is about measurement, calculation, and prediction. That’s REAL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, science it too hard for us dummies to understand. :/

Over the past month I have been watching the skies with my binoculars cause that’s all I’ve got. I live about 30 miles from Travis airforce base. Its hard to track these planes but there is a lot of what I call spraying going on. They will spray so much that there will be a haze in the sky as if there was a fire. I’m no scientist but something isnt right here and everyday people don’t even notice it. Good luck

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Use your eyes, ears, and all other senses, logic. Yeah man, there is something amiss. Get that s—e on video!

One thing I don’t get is if the water crystallizes at 25000 ft at minus 30c then why isn’t there trails at night?

JazzRoc Reply:
There are.

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM
http ://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a778783829~db=all
“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
There are, they love to spray when nobody’s watching. Watch when there’s a full moon, you’ll see ‘em flying all around it trying to block it.

JazzRoc Reply:

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Well I don’t need a scientific report to determine what my eyes can see.

JazzRoc Reply:
You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!

Snow Says:
Chemtrails are being sprayed here today as we speak. Having a bit of a breathing problem and I’m getting thirstier.

djjasonxxx Says:

Highlanderess Says:
We are destroying ourselves with chemtrails, big pharma, vaccinations, car exhausts and the crap they’re putting in our foods to make them addicting….just to name a few.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the leader article: “The DOE website states that, “The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.”
The above statement is TRUE, but the way you interpret this sentence is NOT.
“Forcing” here is a technical term talking about the NATURAL physics that takes place whether Man exists or NOT. It does NOT mean anything to do with Mankind FORCING these changes,
The planes used to fly through the lower atmosphere have devices to PULL IN air to analyze, and NOT to PUSH OUT air to contaminate.
It is TYPICAL in sites like this to push ignorance and nisunderstanding as far as possible, and to hide the truth.
“The other 10% is SCIENCE” – JAZZROC

duck Says:
Everyone should record video of any plane spraying a chemtrail with the date and time documented on the video. Then take the video to the FAA and file a FOIA request to find out who owns the plane and, thereofore, who is responsible for the chemtrail. We can then go after the owner of the plane with a lawsuit to try to open this can of worms and make them face the music.

JazzRoc Says:
Texas IdentityCrisis: “To JazzRoc – so you are suggesting this is not a secretive military op?”
It’s not ANY SORT of op. It’s just what happens when internal combustion engines fly through the stratosphere. It’s produced by burning hydrocarbon fuels. It’s WATER.
Not only that, but only a ten-thousandth of the water of a large speading trail comes from the plane’s fuel.
The rest COMES OUT OF THE AIR as accreting ICE (probably at around 30,000 feet) and RETURNS TO THE AIR (probably beneath 20,000 feet) as it evaporates in the warmer air to WATER VAPOR.
None of the trails you see come from anywhere except the engines – and those engines would be DESTROYED by passing metals through them. Think Iceland and volcanic dust – which is similar.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
So you ascertain, with all your scientific knowledge, yet neglecting logic, that because you believe it, it is so. You assume a lot and your sort of assuming is dangerous. So much for those who lean on science, who’ve yet to realize science is subject to corruption and those who are of the worlds smartest, murder can even be a job related benefit. Further, you embrace some science and other science you ridicule. There has been plenty of testing and scientific observation on the matter to make it clear, that chemtrails ain’t contrails. Therefore you, all by yourself, have discredited those YOU blindly follow. As well as your beloved and somehow in your mind, faultless science. Science may faultless, humans and scientists aren’t. The latter are inherently corruptible. Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly, FEMA camps are real, and 911 was an inside job. Climategate has all but destroyed the globalwarming movement, etc., get it? The MIC does not have your best interest at heart. Got it?

JazzRoc Reply:
I don’t BELIEVE anything. Science is NOT a belief system. Belief means requiring no physical evidence. Science ALWAYS requires hard evidence, with reason to follow. People are sometimes corrupt, but science is not, nor is mathematics. And, by-the-way, scientists follow SCIENCE, not OTHER scientists.
I embrace science, yes, but “chemtrail” science is an OXYMORON. Those two words just cannot come together without seeming funny. EVERY chemtrailer test or assertion is a FAIL. You guys have NEVER been correct. EVER.
“Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly” – see what I mean? FAIL. You really don’t deserve to live in modern times. And the word is FLUORIDE.
“FEMA camps are real” – That’s a FAIL on your projected usage.
“and 911 was an inside job” is a FAIL on logical and engineering grounds. You are crediting the Bush administration with FAR TO MUCH CAPABILITY.
“Climategate” “destroyed” nothing at all. It did show that GW deniers didn’t mind stealing and privacy intrusion in their desperation to carry out their orders. They represent about 3% of the world’s atmospheric scientists. The other 97% DISAGREE.
“The MIC does not have your best interest at heart” That was said by Dwight D. Eisenhower as he left office in 1961. I believed him then, and I still do.
It’s YOU that’s doing the assuming here. You are concentrating NOT on whether the TOPIC is CORRECT, but on whether or not I am some sort of shill. How, when you so consistently stray from the point, can you EVER be correct?
Science is the closest anyone will ever get to the HARD, PHYSICAL, FACTUAL TRUTH. If you call yourself a “truthseeker”, yet deny science, you’re heading for a world of FAIL.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence. I reject science that says military airplanes aren’t spraying civilians and all our food and water sources with deadly chemical spray, so they can curb global warming. Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible. There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911, if there is you should provide it. Fema camps can easily be located on Google maps, Flouride was used by Hitler to sterilize and dumb down, The MIC is running the black op chemtrails. People who believe everything ’scientific’ they hear, without using their own logic are certainly subscribing to a belief system. It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science.

JazzRoc Reply:
“I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence” – Reference? Produce it and let’s see.
“military airplanes” – Then WHY does almost every YT vid show passenger planes? Do you realize that 70,000 tanker flights would be needed, and that these planes CANNOT REACH the stated altitude of 80,000 feet?
“Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible” – of course – they’re people. But are they murdered etc, in greater numbers than any other sector of the population?
“There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911?” – Yes there is, and you’ve seen it. You just don’t understand it.
I’ll tell you a little true story. I was searching for an approximate value for the potential energy stored in a WTC tower, in order to figure out its potential heat value, and therefore how much steel it could POSSIBLY melt if ALL that energy were converted into heat.
The answer is 2,700 tons of steel. (Provided by a “truther” engineer who, for some reason, thought it was necessary to demonstrate that because ALL the tower steel hadn’t melted, then there was no possible reason for a pit of molten steel to exist at the base of the towers, other than foul play, etc., etc.)
Of course, in the pit was a few hundred tons of molten steel (out of the 2,700), and the rest of the energy was spent pulverizing concrete, heating up a lot of air and dust, and making a racket.
That engineer must have been as popular as a sausage in a synagogue.
“It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science” – said the DUNCE to the physics teacher – on the web. Well smack my gob. LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s time to stop responding to JazzRoc. This is a troll. An intelligent troll, but still a troll, using “science”, which these days is full of liars to prove points that go directly against the evidence and trying to make us all look like fools. Not all scientists are liars, but many are involved in the rape of the earth and its people for profit, and the ones who rebel against the globalists end up dead. JR has obviously NEVER seen a chemtrail. He says a million can testify to what he sees. Probably so, but millions MORE are experiencing the results of this chemtrail fallout. So his points are invalidated. Pure science could fix this earth, but globalists are using pure science to destroy it.

Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Yes sir, you are right, he’s hell bent.

JazzRoc Reply:
Chemtrailers are TROLLS en masse. Sites like these exist, chemtrailers think, merely so that “truthers” may compare notes and agree with each other.
But there has NEVER been a greater MUTILATION of MEANING and TRUTH than this cockeyed “movement”, well, not since Orwell’s “1984?
Not a single CNUT can debate rationally or interpret evidence intelligently.
Without exception, they are ALL on the fast and easy road to F – A – I – L
They all go “JazzRoc, you’re OH so perfect, eh?” – (Well, NO, I’m fallible actually!)
etc., etc.
Calling normal people trolls when you’re one yourself, calling competent professional experienced people “sheep” and “shills” when you all bleat together like a pack of sheep yourselves – these are ESPECIALLY irritating habits you ALL share.
But the way you handle “truth”, wow, THAT really takes the biscuit.

FreedomLover Reply:
Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up. The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed. Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings. I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.

Lion Reply:
Barium anomaly preceded the KT boundary event. (Is PP’s glass the same as Springerlink’s orthoclase (silicate)?
springerlink . com / content / v671181266t15g8h /
Abstract Maastrichtian–Danian strata of the Cauvery basin as well as selected sections of NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel record Ba anomalies, away from the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary (KTB) in addition to common occurrences of geochemical and stable isotopic anomalies across the KTB. Ba anomalies were recorded in monotonous shallow marine sandstones of the Cauvery basin (south India) which contain minor amounts of Ba-orthoclase. Barium anomalies were observed also in shallow marine carbonates in sections of Israel, NE-Mexico and Guatemala. Calculation of excess Ba with reference to PAAS (Post-Archaen Average Australian Shale), comparison of coeval geochemical anomalies, depositional pattern and associated petrographic and mineralogical features of the Cauvery basin revealed that while a first Ba peak was related to detrital influx, the second Ba peak was coincident with sea level fall which in turn may have been influenced by emission of volatile hydrocarbons and resultant climatic changes. In view of intrinsic involvement of Ba in various geochemical processes and occurrence of Ba anomalies in K/T sites distributed around the world (NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel), it is suggested that probable causes of such widespread Ba-anomalies should be taken into consideration while analyzing end Cretaceous events. These observations support the views espoused by many workers who have stated that the K/T boundary was also accompanied by many non-catastrophic events that might have contributed to environmental stress on marine fauna, as a result of which selective multi-stage extinctions occurred.
I perceive a propagandist theme, in which “Earth changes” are mundane, daily business – caused by mankind, and under its control. ‘All we have to is come together…’ (agree to collectivist mandates.)

JazzRoc Reply:
Earth changes are OBVIOUSLY not under our control.
As for COMING TOGETHER, are we to take our example from the US?
Religion needs DEMOLITION before we can become a global collective.
Subtleties might be developed AFTER we get rid of the BIG STUFF, eh?

Lion Says:
I find it annoying that humankind is given credit for affecting everything, until there is no wonder left in the natural world; some guy must be causing this, or it is my fault.
The epicenters of earthquakes of inconceivable forces dot the globe. Gas bubbles rise from untouched springs in the hidden tarpits and volcanic mountains of every continent. Yet, one borehole is said to damage the crust beyond repair, because you took the car out on a short ride. Airborne sulfur and glass are blamed on airtravel, because you bought a trinket over the internet.
Many places, with “traditional’ character, outwardly, were given entitlements by the govt to keep things the way they were, like game reserves with people living on them. Even as his mental freedoms were stymied, and applied knowledge became overwhelmed with trolls in every media, the little guy knew he witnessed global de-industrialization, for decades. After a global treaty, prophesied in the Bible, people are reduced to fighting on horseback, with swords and bows, but well-kept, well-studied, and well-connected televangelists go through odd, mental contortions to explain it. Most people were never so coordinated with their surroundings as to be certain that hygiene, shelter, and nutrition were natural miracles. “For three [things] the earth is disquieted, and for four [which] it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat; For an odious [woman] when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.” – from Proverb 30. Aren’t these people really asking you to pick up their slack? Your humble pleasures are being taken from you, to cover for the misdeeds of others.

JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the lead article here:
“In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature.”
The newscast focuses on Barium, which its “research” shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails”. KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.” The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were “very unusual,” but commented that “proving the source was a whole other matter” in its discussion with KSLA.”
If you watch this video you can see immediately something is wrong here. It’s 68.8, not 6.8, and it’s not parts per million, it’s parts per billion. So it’s actually 0.0688 parts per million. So what of “three times the toxic level set by the EPA”? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC: “The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million].” So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit’s not really a “toxic level” either. There’s no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
* Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month.
* The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
* The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium.
* The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails.
Debunking EVERY “chemtrail” MYTH, one-by-one:
Oh, yeah.
Stamps, Arkansas, is SLAP BANG in the middle of a BARIUM MINING AREA.

No shit.

Texas Identity crisis: “I’m just sayin’, if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don’t you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.”
Are “the elite” pale? I’ve seen the queen in Southport, and, come-to-think-of-it, yes, she was pale… Are pale people harmful? Do “the elite” live in Tenerife, Spain? Tell me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Looks like it. Sounds like it, smells like it. You must be one of the globalists.

TheExorcist Says:
I told you so.

JazzRoc Says:
“No wonder you’re out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren’t enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don’t see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.”
Eight years. There’s an hourly overflight from Europe to Brazil/Argentina which strikes heavy trails on occasion. The island gets covered by Saharan sandstorms a few times each year. Now, THAT’s an absolute TREAT of particulates. By the way, WHEN particulates are in the air you will find NO rainbow effects. This is a PROOF that chemtrailers are WRONG when they say that particulates cause “chembows”. They DO NOT, and there’s a million people here who could testify to that.
“I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That’s not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that’s not the case for the rest of the world.”
I’ve worked in a few oil site offices, so I know fairly well what must have taken place. The managerial class shares a similarity with chemtrailers, in that they really believe it’s possible to BEND the rules of physics. Well it’s not, and other people paid the price. So far it all looks very incompetent to me. Horrific.
“The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can’t come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You’re under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world’s people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it’s spent, where it’s invested – and by whom. You’ll get your answers and it’s no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.”
I’ll take no advice from someone who follows the 2000 year old writings of a bunch of semitic natives of the Middle East, thanks. Nor am I interested in the moneyed class.
The world will NOT destroy itself as long as people like me (builders) avoid taking advice from people that cannot build – like you. There’s no chance of that happening…

FreedomLover Reply:
My “building” is way different from yours. This world as it is was not meant to last. You completely ignore the warnings gathered from the globalists’ own mouths, so when trouble comes to you, you’ll still deny that anything sinister is being put into practice. Google the Georgia Guidestones and read the “commandments” carved in stone. Then think about what it means to most of the people on this planet. Think DEEPLY, maybe the truth will come to you. Unless of course you’re a globalist yourself and believe that you’re above all this. Have a nice life, while it lasts. I’ll not be responding to you again.

JazzRoc Says:
Jazzroc: You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say “No”, then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?
Texas IdentityCrisis: “Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed ‘beliefs’, weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!”
You didn’t answer my question. Again.
How can you expect to win a discussion point by resorting to abuse? Again.

calisurfer Says:
I have been looking at what is called the so-called chemtrail phenomenon for awhile and pass through here every now and then. It looks like a debunker that makes the rounds also is here. That would be JazzRoc.
People have shouted shill. I doubt that. The dose of clear thinking he provides could serve as an antidote to things some others serve up.
Carnicom was mentioned. If you listen to him we are all infected with something awful.
When approached through email for abc steps in blood work so some people at a university with access to an electron microscope could take a look the silence was deafening. Wrote that one off.
JazzRoc is secure in what he knows, has looked at some of the outlandish claims, and justifiably counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be. He is, however, “stuck,” (as are most… notice I did NOT say everybody) in his own world. “I’m merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime’s experience behind me, which is WHY I’m telling you that you are a terrorist.” ““Chemtrailers” are TERRORISTS…”
These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through it. Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest. Strange times. Strange things. And sometimes some very strange things in the sky. I think some things touched upon in quantum mechanics regarding perception and what is real have come into play in some of it. And JazzRoc, I too am obliged by and to the scientific method and mathematics.
People, don’t hate JazzRoc. And JazzRoc, don’t hate people. Don’t use your background and knowledge as an excuse in doing so. Your background and knowledge have their limits. You’ve bumped into the edges of them and are self-confined.

FreedomLover Reply:
Cali, much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzrock doesn’t understand is that very few things remain “pure”. Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays. Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet. Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy. THAT is what Jazzroc is failing to see.
Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead. People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not. We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that there is another entity loose on this planet (satan), whose hatred for humanity is beyond human understanding. I am speaking to those who have a consciousness of God, but I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ and I will NEVER recant that commitment or be ashamed to call Him Lord and Saviour. We are all going to die someday, whether the NWO lets us live to old age and die in our sleep in our beds (probably not), or something else takes us out. “For it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment.” We can deny what God has said all we want, but it’s like gravity. There are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws. Jump off a building denying the law of gravity and someone will still have to clean up the bloody mess. How hard can it be to see the truth except when someone has on deception-colored glasses?
And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?
Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified. “Global warming” debunked. Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?

“Much of the world’s issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzroc doesn’t understand is that very few things remain ‘pure’.”
One of the FIRST things one does before a match (if one wishes to win) is to NEVER underestimate your opponent. You just have…
“Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays.”
Hmm. Yet electrons circle the nucleus of an atom frictionlessly for EVER…
“Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet.”
The last time I looked, the population was still rising, and there were no specially-overcrowded hospitals. The last “mass die-off” I can recall (excluding earthquakes and tsunamis) was 40,000 pensioners in France in 2004 – due to the highest recorded temperatures in France since records began.
“Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others’ mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy.”
The snags with this idea are that a) NO-ONE CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE, and b) EUGENICS DIED FROM AN EVOLUTIONARY UNDERSTANDING OF GENETICS. Totally dead, that one…
“Most humane people can’t wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don’t even know wants them dead.”
What’s this? YOU obviously weren’t affected by the Cold War and Mutually-Assured-Destruction? LOL
“People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not.”
NOT. You believe words written by nomadic desert tribesmen four thousand years ago in the Middle East, added to by “jobbing” Essene psychedically-enhanced priests in Palestine, and finally compiled by a convocation of cardinals in Istambul? Bravo! Ah, but you were taught to abandon reason from childhood starting at an age when your parents should have been kinder to you, and taught you to respect reason. Tough. Mine were kinder.
“We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn’t seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that”
Good until this point. Gibberish thereafter. The fact that the lowest human emotion is FEAR, and if these people fear us, it might be we have given them reason to do so. Consider Afghanistan and Iraq. Sure, those people who ARE manipulating the rest of us may well be in “spasm” too. Fear is the LOWEST emotion because of the paralyzing effect it can have on rational thought. Religion uses fear (of death) to manipulate its congregations. Anyone for Heaven? Better than Hell, eh? You don’t return from there… eternal torture… God revenges…
Chemtrails uses fear to manipulate its “customers”. Colloidal silver, orgone, coriander, anyone? Don’t disagree with me, you SHILL.
“And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?”
Well, you’re a LIAR, and I expect better of you.
“Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified.”
Not if it is Science. Until it is. Then, not if it is Science. Keep repeating that.
“Global warming” debunked.”
By tobacco interests? What keeps debunking this debunking are mass die-offs of old people in hot weather. There will be more…
“Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists “cooked the books”, deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they’re being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world’s people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can’t trust these people to have our best interests at heart?”
Here your lack of scientific understanding has REALLY LET YOU DOWN. Neither you nor the data-burglars are capable of interpreting the science shorthand employed.
It’s rather similar to the ARM aerosol planes. These SUCK. They DON’T BLOW. They are gathering data. What for? Understanding how and why atmospheric particulates are DIMMING the solar flux. They are NOT proof that the PTB plan to spray you.
It all boils down to this:
If you don’t know what your talking about, shut up, and go to a library, and study up. Keep quiet until you REALLY know what you’re talking about, and before you begin, learn the rules of debate and the pitfalls of thinking, so that you may properly respect the rights of those who may not agree with you.
Notice I say LIBRARY.
“These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through.”
Wrong. For “terrified” read “horrified”. I am a cheerful and courageous person who has built and flown his own airplane, and never shied away from a fight. I hate bullies and respond, you might say, very badly to them. It may be the reason I had more than sixty jobs in my working life.
“Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn’t have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest.”
Wrong again. Are you afflicted by dyslexia? Persistent contrails were first witnessed in 1921, persistent spreading ones in 1943, they have occurred (as they MUST) EVERY TIME ANY AIRCRAFT HAS FLOWN THROUGH SUPERSATURATED AIR.
Just because apophenics have clustered their myth-making abilities to fabricate “chemtrails” over the last decade, they should be believed? Of course not. They should be TREATED.
You must have missed it before, so I’ll restate it right now: there is NO physical evidence as to the existence of chemtrails, just as there isn’t to God, Jahwe, Jehovah, Allah, fairies, witches, hobgoblins, and the SPAGHETTI MONSTER.
If there’s NO evidence for whatever – DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT, and do yourself a favor. Live your life as best you can, as if it were your ONLY opportunity, for it IS your only opportunity.
DO NOT support the PTB. That’s easily done by NOT USING MONEY. Build a passive solar home. Gather your food and energy. Practise PERMACULTURE. Say goodbye to the PTB.
There are some helpful and directing videos here:

http ://www.youtube.com/user/beachcomber2008  And yes, I am a musician:

http ://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/38493

calisurfer Says:
“counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be.” through. I will be breaking out a new keyboard today. That has been happening too often.

JazzRoc Reply:
I know what you mean. The sides of the keys get rougher over time.

Mothman Says:
We see the spraying, the results and even the jets spraying all over the world. We should ask who pays for this spraying and if this is an international effort are the costs shared?
Knowing who pays should be followed by who controls the whole operation? The jets, the pilots, the chemical transport to the aviation assets, the people? Who are these individuals or groups involved?
We must begin to ask who is involved and why? When they use national security as an excuse, then I would use Congress or the Senate to ensure that what is being done is not some complete and total UN program that impedes on our sovereignty while it forces the American public to pay for something that is designed to kill the populations of the world.

Mr. Clear View Reply:
Look. You’ve been fed a bunch of hogwash and believe it. Red herrings are thrown at you and you eat them. If it was all designed to kill you, how come you are still sitting and typing?
It’s the progeny of the Star Wars program. Toys for big boys. Crud spewed for hitting by rf to make a plasma to play with. Some dedicated planes for when more precision is necessary.
Sub-micron particles of aluminum in jet fuel that are small enough to polish the blades rather than destroy the engine outright in commercial. Any health side effects are besides the point of it all, and are just a bonus. Like a multinational that has one tentacle in the cigarette biz and another in cancer drugs. Are the people that get a paycheck and have the zeal for the toys overly concerned about you? About as much as those who sent and then tracked the soldiers in Plumbbob’s Smoky.

FreedomLover Reply:
It’s a SLOW kill, just like every other thing these maggots put into place. If they attacked the world’s people all at once with a single weapon, the people would wake up and rise up in revolution. Do some clear research on Hitler and what his cronies did to people. These are not simple killers. They are the type that would pull the wings off a butterfly, watch it crawl around for half an hour and then fry it with a magnifying glass. They love misery, suffering and torture. These are not sane or happy people. We have to get over the delusion that they know what’s best and have our best interests at heart. They don’t. Get over it.

JazzRoc Reply:
You must be simple. Well, simple person, there is NO such thing as a “spraying nozzle” fitted to ANY aircraft which produces the trails you see in the sky. TRAILS are made by COOLING the turbofan engine exhaust down from 1300 to -40 degrees Celsius between 25,000 and 40,000 feet up in the stratosphere. They are made by the COMBINATION of the COLD and the HUMIDITY of the air they are laid in. “Chemtrails” are MYTHOLOGICAL and NOT TRUE. Being FALSE, there is NO NEED to ask who originated them, just as there is NO NEED to wonder whether the SPAGHETTI MONSTER created JEHOVAH. Your UN paranoia is a great laugh, thanks for that.

Lion Reply:
You never explicitly tell us what you would acknowledge as evidence of chemtrails, God, or the criminality of the UN.

JazzRoc Reply:
That would be worthless hypothesizing.
Demonstrate CHEMTRAILS.
Demonstrate GOD.
Demonstrate UN criminality.
They’re YOUR ideas, not mine, so DEMONSTRATE them to me.

FreedomLover Reply:
Just wait around a couple more years. There is no convincing you now. But you’ll see. Unfortunately by the time you crawl out of that comfortable little shell of a neat little scientific world view that says everything is done for the good of mankind and there are no tyrants, it will probably be too late.

JazzRoc Reply:
Of course there are tyrants. Societies need to kurb them. To do so they need “good intelligence”. I couldn’t agree more.
But let us consider WHAT intelligence might be “good”, shall we?
In time of WAR, the side with poor intelligence LOSES.
Do you want me fighting against you?
Are you waiting for Nibiru? LOL

FreedomLover Reply:
Get thee behind me, satan. You’re using your super-intelligence and super-ego AGAINST the world’s people. You’re exposed and defeated. The minute you deny there are evil people in the world who use everything in their power to carry out a depopulation agenda, your words are no longer worth considering, no matter how logical or book-learned you are. These brutal maggots have MONEY – get it? Money can buy a whole lot of suffering for those they deem unworthy of life. From their own mouths come the words “too many people on earth, we have to do something about this.” Here’s a good idea. Go to Rockefeller, Holdren, Pelosi et al, and preach your scientific gospel to them. Change their minds about what they’re doing. Use your scientific expertise to help the human race instead of killing them off. By your inaction, your complete failure in offering ANY beneficial solutions, you’re contributing to the suffering and death of millions. That smells like NWO. Who died and made you God anyway? Who gave you the authority to puff yourself up and say that because you have some training and experience, that makes your life more valuable in God’s eyes than some poor half-starved child in a third-world country? Your arrogance stinks.

ShieldsRdown Says:
Danger In The Sky – The Chemtrail Phenomenon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A

JazzRoc Reply:
Has a debunker in its midst – Beachcomber2008. That guy is ME.

DreamToShare Says:
SHINING DUST is what we see now a days. Run your hand on a dusty area and hold it under the sun light, it shines.

truthorconsequence Says:
Interestingly enough, our skies have been suspciously clear since the BP spill happened…could it be that the bulk of those chemicals that have been sprayed via air are now being dumped into the Gulf? Has NALCO been linked to chemtrail related activity?

FreedomLover Reply:
I don’t know. We’ve had no chemtrailing for 2 days now, skies clear of clouds, but a persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore. And electric discharge that used to only happen in the winter.

JazzRoc Reply:
By “electric discharge” you mean STATIC ELECTRICITY. That means your air is DRY.
A persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore is PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG which has been trapped in an INVERSION. Inversions form over cities, especially where the cities are sited geographically in a “bowl” of surrounding hillsides. If you are concerned about the air you breathe then complain to your local govt.

FreedomLover Reply:
They don’t listen. Neither do you.

I’m not here to argue I’m hear to ask questions. Why is it when I see a fighter jet as a spec shooting across the sky there’s no contrail? Why aren’t contrails constant if they are just water vapor? seems to me they are tuned on and off.

JazzRoc Reply:

The air that creates a contrail is THIN. One tenth the pressure at ground level. It’s cold. At this time of the year it will be -40 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s humid. It will be 85% Relative Humidity or greater. It’s HIGH UP. It will be anywhere over about 25,000 feet. I say “anywhere” because it will be trapped in a relatively thin and flat LAYER (or several of them) anywhere between 25,000 and 45,000 feet. Above this height the temperature is rising with altitude, and conditions become less favorable.
The kicker is that these layers of differing humidity are all TRANSPARENT and cannot be distinguished from the ground. I have noticed that it is possible to spot them from the aircraft by looking at the horizon. Jet streams in these layers are fast-moving and can be fairly opaque with fine ice crystals. Planes passing through them make thick trails in these conditions.
Freedom Lover:
“jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and “disinfo” anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.”
You haven’t contested a single point I have made. Instead you resort to AD HOMINEMs like there were no tomorrow. These ad homs you can neither prove, nor I disprove. They’re TIMEWASTERS. I can understand WHY you would rather waste time than get to the truth: you don’t want to lose an argument.
“Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR.”
It is MORE ARROGANT of you to speak from a position of ignorance than it is for me to speak from a position of experience.
“If you were REALLY on the side of the world’s people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world’s people.”
I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.
“The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you’re saying there isn’t even a problem. So basically we’re all wasting our time. In which case you’re also wasting yours coming here to debunk a “myth” you are telling us doesn’t even exist.”
I’m asking you to IGNORE A PROBLEM WHICH DOESN’T EXIST. There are plenty of conspiracies left to check out.
“NOW who’s the crazy one? You don’t have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.”
I’m retired already. Your problem, apophenia and ignorance is CURABLE. There is work to do. Finding a counter-effort to the Tea Party and Neocon moves might be a good isea, for instance.
“You’re busted. Troll somewhere else.”
As you haven’t contested a single point of science which I have made, interested onlookers might consider YOU “busted”.
Until you conduct a proper debate, it’s YOU who is the troll.

FreedomLover Reply:
“I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn’t make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.”
Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree. Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.
I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone. There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it. So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?

JazzRoc Reply:
“Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you’re doing is blasting those with whom you disagree.”
That’s another of my gifts. I should have used it sooner in my life, for sure, but I’m certainly not going to miss the opportunity to use it now. My advice is TRUE and GOOD. Follow it.
“Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth’s people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone’s face.”
You’re correct, technology does indeed exist that will EASILY save the Human Race from distress, let alone extinction, and I’ll admit I’m NO LONGER trying to do so, that’s true, but I DID spend thirty years trying. How long have YOU spent? But you’re also quite WRONG: I have indeed offered my best advice here on these pages. If you haven’t noticed, yet received one of my boots in your face, it was indeed well-deserved. Look again.
“I am not an engineer. I don’t have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that’s really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world’s people gone.”
These people are both cushioned AND alienated, and I’ll buy that. I wouldn’t trust them any further than I could throw them either. But they only have as much power of you as you allow them. If you don’t use their money they have NO power over you at all.
“There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth’s weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it.”
Sorry, the scientist in me sees NO evidence whatsoever. You should trust my judgement here – I know, fat chance.
“So either you’re a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I’ll grant you that), or you’re so deceived by the world system that you can’t grasp the truth. Which is it?”
The only non-troll part of YOU is this SLIGHT tendency you have to discuss something with me. The rest is ALL troll.
“Good disinfo” is a classic oxymoron.
I used to be a warm, open-hearted, and somewhat gullible person in the early sixties. The LAST time I was deceived was around 1984. The man responsible for that deception is in a Los Angeles jail right now facing a 170-year sentence.
“JR, do you really think you’re going to escape everything that’s coming on the world? You can go join the elite in their deep underground military bases and maybe survive for awhile. But you’ll still die one day. What then? I’m trying to be kind in response to your swaggering scoffing, but you make it pretty darned hard.”
I have NO WISH to escape the future. However my children and grandchildren deserve better than your poor imagination can envisage. The “elite” have no desire for me, and the feeling’s mutual. So I’ll die. I won’t be worrying after that. Sorry about the difficulties I seem to put you in, but (yawns, forgets)…
“Oh, and I see you’re above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It’s not going to work. You might as well give up.”
Tut-tut. You blow hot, you blow cold… I’m more concerned with protecting the interests of my grandchildren. And my aims aren’t THAT high either. I KNOW that what (you might call) CASUAL onlookers are going to think. Let me tell you this. They are going to see a theme with a PERSISTENT OPPOSITION running through it. They can choose either way, it’s no matter. There’s just NOT GOING TO BE a visibly-consistent consensus. And that will work. The continual dissonance has a way of working itself through the subconscious mind more frequently, and ONE DAY, could be (certainly has been!) years away, you will ask yourself again exactly why you disagreed with me, and re-examine your own motivations for doing so.
“The “sheep” have awakened, and they’re pissed.”
I used to live in North Wales. Do you know that sheep invented VELCRO? They learned it by sticking themselves to thornbushes (right up in the air). I used to pick them off the hawthorns when their plight become unbearable to watch. A minute or two laughing, then – pluck.
“Go crawl back into your hole – you’re not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you’re fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings.”
No, seriously, I AM fallible. The point is that to be responsible you have to humbly admit to youself that you ARE fallible. You then stand a greater chance of remedying your mistakes BEFORE you make them.
“I’ve got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the “circle of the earth” while people still believed in a “flat earth” lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don’t – but wait just a couple of years. They’ll go fast. It will be in your face.”
The Earth is an oblate spheroid. The North Pole is five miles closer than the South Pole to the DEAD CENTER of the Earth. Hot stuff there, dense nickel/iron plasmatic solid core, fission-driven to a temperature as hot as the surface of the Sun.
I live on a small volcanic desert made by a natural, soft “concrete” formed by the action of rainfall on what was once a massive pyroclastic flow. Above me fertile volcanic soils, above them hardwoods and fruit trees, above them pine forests, above them ragged and sour volcanic ridges through which run sleek greyhound-like wild dogs. Below me the shoreline replete with shrimps and other tasty arthropods, crabs, pretty fish, and pretty tasty fish. Get me?
“Just as in the “global warming” hoax [snip] cap & trade tax through.”
I thought we’d covered this. The whole thing’s a scam by 3% self-appointed experts – with 97% of atmospheric scientists in direct opposition. A bit of DISPARITY there…
“The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You’re obviously in the rich man’s camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you’re so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water.”
I’m the grandson of a Welsh coal-miner, thanks, with nothing in the bank. I’m part of your “poor, poorer” sector. But as I’m 66 I collect a (slightly low) state pension. My last job was as a physics teacher. I’m married to a physics teacher, too. It just goes to show that you can work hard all your life – and still get SNAFU’d. In a more numerate and technically-competent world – I’d have saved the world. (LOLs insanely)
“Come on, it can’t be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you’ve obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people.”
Of course it can be cheap-ish. It’s dearer than the States, I reckon, but the food’s better.
As for “blasting” people, a sort of English politeness works with scientists (because the words count) but not with emotional or religious non-scientists. Emotive issues must be raised immediately, in order to draw attention to physical evidence and reasoned logic.
“Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.”
If you are American or British you ARE messing up the planet. It’s about time you took responsibility for your situation.
I tried for a very long time, and left Britain with a whole bunch of physical ailments (stress, mostly, with a worsening hay-fever) which have all now departed, mercifully.
All the better to blast you with. 🙂

FreedomLover Reply:
First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me.
Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.
1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.
2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.
3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.

Jazz and freedom thanks for taking this way out of line and o.t. You two are smarter than I but I know when to s.t.f.u. you might wanna think about that next time you bombard everyone with your b.s.

JazzRoc Says:
“First of all, I’m going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me. Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you’ve had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.”
Stretching a tenous “belief system” here, thanks for being attentive. I may have been shot down but at least my “parachute” opened.

“1. Chemtrails are real. You’re not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You’re not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren’t interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.”
Chemtrails are MYTHOLOGICAL. You managed to convince yourself of their existence without any real evidence, so it is definitely possible to retrace your steps to find out where you took the wrong fork, find a bit of evidence you MISSED, and take a different path.
The ORIGIN of the trail is a case in point. There is a GAP in the trail before it forms. Metal ions would be VISIBLE IN THAT GAP. Metal ions are used in fireworks to COLOR the FLAMES. The engine exhaust is a FLAME. If it isn’t COLORED there aren’t any METAL IONS.
So it’s NOT the engines that are laying the trail – it comes from the body. Now you sometimes see body trails, from the galley/washbasins, and also from the Auxiliary Power Unit, but they are real small, and discontinuous.
So WHERE can these metal particles be coming from?

“2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka “elite”, are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don’t believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.”
And they worry me more than anyone does – we agree. The only difference between them and Nazis is they don’t seem to have working extermination camps anywhere.
“3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won’t take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.”
I don’t suffer from your over-riding fear, as I have shrugged off my religious programming. I accept that OBLIVION FOLLOWS DEATH. And oblivion is what you fear. Your religion provides you comfort against that fear, and it must be nice. But there is no evidence for life after death.
Your “soul” is the electrochemical CONFIGURATION of that piece of MEAT inside your skull which you call your brain.
Life on Earth began abiogenically, died, began, died, began (etc.) and finally survived to evolve 3.8 billion years ago, and every cell in every SINGLE, SEPARATE living being on Earth is taking part in further evolution RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS MORE IMPLACABLE AND GOD-LIKE than the SUM TOTAL of ALL that effort. All life is related to itself and forms a tree, the trunk being the original transbiote.
LIFE is the Universe’s way of knowing itself. BOTH ARE UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL.
ANY god is surplus to requirements. Especially the Judaic one.
Study the subject of EMERGENCE.

FreedomLover Reply:
You’re obviously stuck in your denial. I wish you “luck”. You’re going to need it. I hope your godless philosophy gives you comfort because that’s all you’ve got. I have nothing to fear, for your information, and I have nothing to gain if you believe or don’t except giving the devil a black eye and rescuing one more soul out of his deceptive plan of destruction.
You practice “faith” every day. When you sit down in a chair, when you turn on the water tap, when you turn the key in the ignition of your car, even when you breathe. That same faith is required to believe in God.
You’ve been presented with the truth. If you deny that God exists in accordance with your godless philosophy, then you don’t have to acknowledge Him or account for your sins – and we’ve ALL sinned at some point. I don’t have to worry about God’s judgment because I accepted what Jesus did on my behalf. I can sleep peacefully at night, and I do. It seems that your heart and your thinking is hardened probably beyond redemption. But I will pray for you, (already have) that God will open your eyes and that you will not pass out of this life in the same condition you are now. Since you don’t want God to “interfere” in your earthly life, there is only one place you can go for that to be permanently true.
You don’t have any proof that the THEORY of evolution is real. Where are the transitional forms? Just for a start. Where is your proof that the earth is “billions of years old”? Your theory is full of holes. Leaving this to mere chance would be like expecting a tornado to plow through a junkyard and pop – out comes a fully-functioning 747, let alone a wrist watch. The odds are so great against that, and even with all your so-called experience and learning, only a blind fool would believe such an outrageous scenario. Apparently there are a lot of them, including teachers, or they would not pass on such a farce to impressionable students. Intelligent design is the only way this earth and everything on it could have come about. Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals, and the crown of God’s creation, humanity. What are the odds that any ONE of these fully-functioning living beings could survive on their own. Oh, a fish decided that it wanted to walk on land, so it grew lungs and walked out of the water. No, it flopped out of the water – and died! Mutations do not long survive, and mutations NEVER evolve upward. They also do not reproduce (mules are a prime example). Why do living things die when they are poisoned by changes in atmosphere, water, etc.? The earth was designed in perfect balance so that life could be sustained – in EVERY way. The atmosphere, gravity, distance from the sun; need I go on? We were designed for God’s pleasure and to enjoy Him. I do. When I think about even colors, tastes, smells, all our senses – God did not have to give us anything except what is necessary for survival. There are blind fish in caves that do just fine. Why did God create (realizing you don’t believe in God) dozens of different varieties of fruit – when just one would have been enough? For all your book-learned knowledge, you still are blind.
It takes more “faith” to believe the theory of evolution which has no evidence in fact, than it does to believe in a loving Creator. Your belief system is sadly out of balance, my friend. All I’m doing is giving you something much deeper than your eyesight to consider. I’m finished talking to a brick wall.

JazzRoc Says:
“I’m finished talking to a brick wall.” is ironic considering you have not and will not discuss HOW a “chemtrail” gets made, yet you’re claiming them to be made.
The need to slavishly adhere to the first primitive writings ever made and reject the basis (science) of the world you live in, hasn’t got you killed – yet – but it stands to kill you in the future.
Back a few centuries you guys were hot to apply ropes, tongs and fire to guys like me, and you’ll notice the reverse doesn’t apply. Why is that, do you suppose?
The age of most things can be determined by the proportions of the isotopes of the elements uf which these things are made. There are many comparisons possible and they overlap.
“Science” time, like the Age of the Earth, differs from “creationist” time – by a factor of 800,000 times. That is NOT an insignificant error.
Evolution will never be PROVED with a SINGLE item of EVIDENCE. It is CONFIRMED by many parallel sets of evidence which agree with each other. In spite of the best efforts of “creationists”, NO DISPROOF HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Nor will it ever be.
When life started on Earth, there was NO OXYGEN in the atmosphere at all. “Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals” would have suffocated instantly. It took four billion years to produce a REALLY oxygen-rich atmosphere, and before that happened LAND ANIMALS lacked the powerful energy which could be obtained from combusting hydrogen with oxygen – they lacked the capability of STRENGTH.
As I’ve told you before, YOU are the one advocating FAITH. Science is a working method which does away with faith. In fact, it is NOT Science until it HAS. ANY argument using the word has no place whatsoever in Science. Unless it were the “Science” of faith.
But “faith” is, after all, “confidence”, and the first confidence-tricksters anywhere were priests, without a doubt.
I could pick through your tired old and mind-bogglingly-stupid points one-by-one, but this isn’t the place to do it. The thread title is “Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds” and I demolished this concept in my first post, entirely unchallenged. It’s all over.
Opposition to my logic vanished faster than common-sense inside a “creationist museum”.
Which is what I expected.
The fact that you think you know what’s going on I find very amusing. Also that you’re confident that chemtrails exist and you don’t feel the need for proof.
What I don’t find amusing is that you then deem yourself FREE to slander ANYONE who disagrees with you, that works in the aircraft industry or all the support industries, FREE to disperse blatant lies and frauds across the web, FREE to interfere with the flow of information in society which enables it to heal itself.
I think you should lose your voting power, your citizenship, and gain yourself a one-way ticket to farming kelp and sheep on the Falkland Isles. A hard dose of reality might straighten you out.


It is interesting that the thread appeared to come to a stop at this point.

Chemtrailers employ several techniques to ESCAPE discomfort zones in comments, blogs, and forums. The favorite (apart from direct ad hominem attacks) is a technique known as “astroturfing”. This is the cut-and-pasting of LARGE tracts which push short comments immediately over the page and render them difficult to rediscover.

You will notice that

1. They NEVER answer a question.

2. They change the subject,

3. They ignore statements which they dislike without challenge.

4. They work to destroy the logical buildup to a point.

5. They ignore challenges.

6. They make up new theories on the fly to add “body” to their “evidence”.

7. They ALWAYS respond to challenge with an adhominem attack. These “namings” allow them to think no further.

8. Just as well, for they HATE thinking in the first place.

9. When in disarray, they slander and lie.



Stephen Salters Salt-Spray Trimaran

Stephen Salter's Salt-Spray Trimaran


“something is going on in our skies” – Passenger plane flights are at a MAXIMUM probably never to be exceeded in the history of the world, seeing that we have passed PEAK OIL.

You are seeing the normal consequences of civil aviation – burnt fuel in the stratosphere (300 million tons of it per year). You are seeing some of the 300 million tons of WATER.

“spraying seems to be higher during certain parts of the year. Is there anything to this?” – Stratospheric air is seasonally WETTER. In these wetter conditions CONTRAILS are deposited. The number of flights remains constant: you just don’t SEE them when they don’t leave trails.


“suffering from chronic pain syndrome, Fibromyalgia like symptoms but other than some Arthritis and mild disc herniations” – How old are you? Sounds like normal wear and tear to me. Human beings normally experience trouble with their backs and joints over time.

“I wonder if this is caused by what is going on in the sky?” – Well, my joints certainly tell ME when the humidity is UP!


Jet streams are fast flowing, narrow air currents found in the atmospheres of some planets.   The main jet streams are located near the tropopause, the transition between the troposphere (where temperature decreases with height) and the stratosphere (where temperature increases with height).

The major jet streams on earth are westerly winds (flowing west to east).   Their paths typically have a meandering shape; jet streams may start, stop, split into two or more parts, combine into one stream, or flow in various directions including the opposite direction of most of the jet.

The strongest jet streams are the polar jets, at around 7–12 km (23,000–39,000 ft) above sea level, and the higher and somewhat weaker subtropical jets at around 10–16 km (33,000–52,000 ft).   The northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere each have both a polar jet and a subtropical jet.   The northern hemisphere polar jet is situated over the middle to northern latitudes of North America, Europe, and Asia, while the southern hemisphere polar jet mostly circles Antarctica all year round.

Jet streams are caused by a combination of atmospheric heating (by solar radiation and, on some planets other than earth, internal heat) and the planet’s rotation on its axis.  They form near boundaries of adjacent air masses with significant differences in temperature, such as the polar region and the warmer air to the south.

Meteorologists use the location of the jet streams as an aid in weather forecasting.  The main commercial relevance of the jet streams is in air travel, as flight time can be dramatically affected by either flying with or against a jet stream.  Clear-air turbulence, a potential hazard to aircraft, often is found in a jet stream’s vicinity.  One future benefit of jet streams could be to power airborne wind turbines.

Other jets also exist.  During the northern hemisphere summer, easterly jets can form in tropical regions, typically in a region where dry air encounters more humid air at high altitudes.  Low level jets also are typical of various regions such as the central United States.




Good article and all true most of the visible trails are formed at the wing tips due to the quick change in pressure. Most people do not know how an aircraft stays up in the air. Most think that if the engines stop it would drop vertically. A large aircraft say 250 tons needs 250 tons less pressure on the upper surface of the wings to maintain level flight. So at the wing tips it spills from the under side to the top surface. It is this change in state that causes the visible trails. you can actually tell the coming weather, if the trails are short it is going to be dry the next couple of days. If they are long it means more humidity = unstable air = possible rain or thunder clouds.

The worlds largest source of noxious gases is man himself, no not really, but all mammals produce over 60% of the total CO2 emissions and aircraft less than 3%, so there!

Jonty (I spent a lot of time up there)


Well, JP, thanks very much. I’ve grown very accustomed to unpleasantness over the last few months and it’s almost unique (3 others) and refreshing to have effusive praise for a change. But probably not a good idea to continue it…

I too have just been doing the ironing. About 2 hrs before a painful crick in the neck forced me to stop. Then a dip in the pool to cool down…

Perhaps we can agree on collaborative material later. I too have a prog-geek friend (Borland) who is a great buddy.

Good luck with your op. No-one’s any good if their back’s no good. I know of people who have made complete recovery from such an op, so don’t worry. It should change your life, although recuperation is soooo long that it won’t seem that way.

I’ve never even HEARD of Live-Video so do tell me more.

No – I haven’t FOUND JazzrocISaSPOOK. I can feel my pulse increase. I don’t think I WANT to find it. One channel got so desperate as to write to itself as JazzrocK and say they were OK etc.


Concerned Citizens against the Patriot Act:

franklin “They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin



commenting in ‘Barium Chemtrails’ in Contrailscience.com 22 Feb 2009.

Someone else with the keen nose for deceit that Jay Reynolds has:

Just in case someone on this blog might want to create your own conspiracy theory so you can have something new to talk about (this blog is really interesting, but this one has been beaten to death by both sides here), here is a step-by-step approach to creating your own custom conspiracy theory.

1. Pick your bad guy – government, big corporations etc. Ideally also pick on some shadowy, cult-like organization which can supposedly be connected with your adversary. (I know The Da Vinci Code is fictional but, hey, Opus Dei was a good pick!).
2. Pick a major current event to base your theory on – especially an unexpected, shocking, visual event that’s shared.
3. Develop your story – pick & choose your source info, construct a compelling story from it, and hey if something doesn’t fit your story, reinterpret it! Sow uncertainty, query the official evidence, and find new facts contradicting it. (Work on your postulates and corollaries)
4. Prepare your defense – be prepared to tweak your conspiracy theory around the edges should anyone point out any inconsistencies etc, but always hold to the core theory, emphasizing that it’s just a question of getting the evidence to prove its truth. And if others question your theory, well they must be in on the conspiracy too, mustn’t they?

After this is done, I would say that the best thing to do to make sure that you are able to sustain the theory in the public is to keep your personal dopamine level high. That will keep you attentive to daily and personal details that can support your theory, help you feel good about it, and do a lot to decrease your short term memory (letting you forget things not in your personal experience that don’t support your theory). It will also help if the first people you expose to the theory that are feeling somewhat alienated, disenfranchised and disaffected related to your bad guy, as these people will be the group that will turn out to be your base. It’s better if this group is somewhat monotheistic (not just about religion) or not interested in a lot of open dialog about a subject, but that is not entirely necessary, as long as they are fairly certain in their belief system. It doesn’t really matter what the belief system is, as long as they are fairly strong adherents to one system and are not too interested in open dialog. Try to encourage them to keep their dopamine levels high too; it will pay off in keeping your base faithful and supportive.

Right now is a time when we have perfect storm conditions when it comes to the creation of conspiracy theories, so I recommend that you make your picks and get started. The elements are currently in place that are necessary for the creation of a new and widely held conspiracy that has staying power:

1. Need to have a group of people, a significant portion of the population, that are feeling a bit alienated from the system. George Bush saw to putting this one in place.

2. A sub-group of these people need to have a tendency to distrust other people. This is where your monotheists come into play. There are many groups that could work for this purpose, one of which frequents this blog.

3. The best time to introduce a new conspiracy theory is when there is a feeling of insecurity when it comes to continued employment. I don’t think you could pick a better time in our lifetime (so far).

I hope that this is helpful in giving anyone interested some guidelines in setting up a useful conspiracy theory that will serve you well in parties you attend. Through the internet, a new theory can get moving pretty quickly, once you get the basics planned out and have a base you have identified and who are aware of your theory. If you can put some thought into the postulates supporting your theory, you’ll find that this will play a very big part in creating a successful conspiracy theory. Base it on some good postulates that can be objectively proved and demonstrated. It will make conversations and arguments you have concerning your theory fairly strong, and most people, not being familiar with scientific method, will be overwhelmed by the attention to detail and just simply give up. (On the other hand, if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t. If someone doesn’t know a lot or is not impressed with the details, it’s possible that outright lies will work as well.)

Good luck and have fun. I look forward to seeing if anything interesting comes out of this post. I am not the author of all this material, but have had an interest in studying conspiracy theories since my psychology classes in college in the 60’s, and because of the perfect storm conditions right now, I’m interested to see what might come up. Consider this a bit of cloud seeding…



Svetlana Kapenina is the most impressive pilot I have seen – ever.

Perhaps its because I prefer looking at beautiful women, but for me it isn’t all looks. It’s also ability, wit, intelligence, and competence. Well, this woman sure is competent. If I could travel in time, I would…  never mind.

Peter Besenyei? Yeah, he’s there…

Don’t forget to select full screen for maximum impact.


“difficult to believe/time/chemtrail videos/comments/denial of their existence” – Snap. I find it difficult to believe you believe such baseless crap.

“i watched/blue sky/outer banks turn/mass of cirrus like clouds/emit from planes” – Aviation is BIG BUSINESS. They are MULTINATIONALS. They burn a MILLION TONS OF KEROSINE EACH DAY. It makes a MILLION TONS OF ICE, as a FINE WHITE SMOKE, and puts it into the stratosphere, which is so cold and pre-saturated with water vapor that IT CANNOT ABSORB THAT ICE AS WATER VAPOR.

“stayed/ hours/ passing out of site/ followed/ same/ cloud/ upwind/ happens every day all year” – That’s BIG BUSINESS for you. It NEVER STOPS.

“looked/information you say is proof/no worry” – An ESSENTIAL PART of the process is that you UNDERSTAND the proof, which can only be done by your own effort of READING SCIENCE. If you don’t check out the science, then you won’t understand what you read, and you’ll start believing CT claptrap.

“you know for a fact/harmful” – Now, stand back and analyze YOUR statement. What do you mean? How CAN you assert that? What EVIDENCE do you have?

“govt/cover/up” – I don’t know how they can cover up passenger flights. Do you mean military flights? I thought the whole purpose of military activities were SECRET: if they were KNOWN, they wouldn’t be a DEFENSE.


“military brat/believe that you cognitive senses/failed” – Another WITLESS assertion. I can think and reason and spell and write better than you, and I guess I can calculate, compose, draw, engineer, drive, fly, invent tools and speak languages better than you. You don’t seem much good at anything…


“believe the bullshit you say” – You have already LIED on this page. For many years, I have never had reason to lie. I don’t propose to do so for any reason whatsoever.

“If/actually have/family” – http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc shows all that’s interesting in my world.

“hard to believe/so ignorant/obvious truth” – YOU are the one who is the wrong side of the mirror. Get a life and stop believing. UNDERSTANDING Science DOES NOT REQUIRE BELIEF. You wouldn’t know the TRUTH if it hit you in the face.

“affects/kills us daily” – I can see you’re AFFECTED.

Let’s consider for a moment the concept of DEPOPULATION. (Assuming you believe we’re manipulated by EVIL REPTILES!) The STABILITY OF A SPECIES (in this case, Man) depends on the depth of his GENE POOL. An 85% CULL would NOT leave you 15%, as you might imagine, but is more likely to be an EXTINCTION EVENT, due to reduction in the gene bandwidth (look up species stability). The reptiles are presumably wanting servants to remain, so they aren’t going to do that, are they? Assuming there are NO reptiles, the same result obtains. So CULLING IS OUT.

The Global Warming/Dimming problem is cheaply adjustable by remote-controlled salt-spray trimarans which work out THOUSANDS OF TIMES CHEAPER THAN ALUMINUM/BARIUM AEROSOL SPRAYS. So Al/Ba SPRAYING IS OUT.



Hi, you need to reread my letter which COMPLETELY ANSWERS POINT ONE. If you don’t get it then keep trying. It WILL dawn on you if you make the effort to think.


Slime Mould

2. “a sticky yellow surface on ground/strange web like thread” Yes. The accidents of Nature on a huge scale. There’s REALLY NO LINK to aircraft flying in the STRATOSPHERE. A conventional study of atmospheric science shows this. To PROVE a CHEMTRAIL you must SAMPLE IT DIRECTLY. If you DON’T, then YOU HAVE NO LINK.

3. “barium/aluminium/bacteria/magnesium” – SEE ABOVE. Clay is ALUMINUM SILICATE and is found in SOIL. So are the other listed materials. Every square inch of your body is COVERED with sometimes THOUSANDS and sometimes MILLIONS of bacteria.

4. “EPA continously negate the need to investigate/do not give any reasons” – They probably make the same set of statements as mine, and THAT gets misreported.

5. “big white planes without markings” – From FIVE to EIGHT MILES BENEATH “big white planes without markings” is ALL YOU CAN SEE. BLACK planes are INVISIBLE, and sometimes give rise to “mystery secret chemtrail generators” MYTHS. CONVINCING PROOF OF THIS I can offer you RIGHT NOW, if your sky is clear. It is the HALF MOON IN DAYLIGHT. YOU CANNOT SEE A TRACE OF ITS SHADOW SIDE. NOT A BIT. It’s due to “BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING”.

“tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – That old chestnut. Observed wherever the stratosphere is wet enough for persistent contrails and there are CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS and a PREVAILING STRATOSPHERIC FLOW. Imagine printing an X on a moving sheet of paper – you get a grid.

Use the old brain box. It’s finer than the best computers in the world, but only if you’re as devoted to LOGIC as Sherlock Holmes.

“The contrails can be bigger then most clouds” – You haven’t understood the physical nature of the stratosphere. If a layer of it is supersaturated, and a contrail is laid in it, it will ACCRETE more ice onto the ice crystals. It will continue to do this until the humidity falls to 100% in that layer. The crystals are gaining weight and falling out of this layer, of course. But by the time they have done so it is easily possible for the trail to have increased its weight by a factor of ONE TO TEN THOUSAND TIMES!

Supersaturated air only occurs when the air is sparklingly clean, so it is a further irony that such conditions are eagerly filmed by CTers as “proof”!


Ice Crystal

“For 30 years of my life I have never seen “a natural sticky yellow surface covering the ground”. What could make a thing like that? If you know, tell me”Slime mould.

“There it is, it’s called probability. And probability is accepted by science, it all depends how high the probability is. Try to guess what is the probability that I will find a “sticky yellow surface”, for the first time in my life after a plane making strange (strange to many people) trail, flew over the sky” – Well, the trails weren’t unusual. Really. And slime mould exists. There probably will be such a coincidence.

“If you can get a sample of rain on that day, and compare it with samples of rain from other days, without trails and if your results show a difference, then you are very close to knowing (other than guessing)”. – You’ll pick up most “knowing” on dry, windy, and dusty days, won’t you?

“If we agree, that the “strange sticky”, and “white powder” are natural, then you are right, this proves nothing. But they are not natural to me. They look even less natural under a microscope” – Well obtain an independent qualified opinion.

“What would you do Tony if you were the head of number one environmental policing agency and citizens asked you about planes spraying chemicals in the air? I am sure you would investigate not just ignore” – Yes. But I might not call a public conference if there was inconclusiveness or negation.

“One year later, in 2000, EPA received a physical sample of highly unusual airborne,  fibrous material. (I am sending you attached photos of one such sample). Their reply “we are unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere”. How would you react Tony, when sent a fiber like this? Remember you are the head director of a national agency whose aim is to watch over the security of the environment. Wouldn’t you sent it to a lab, and then to another to verify? Check what planes might have flown there, talk to pilots, ask citizens, and so on? Of course, if that would have been a natural fiber, made by a spider for example you would have informed about its natural origin, wouldn’t you?” – Yes. But what would I say if I WERE unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere?

“A white plane from 5-8 miles looks different then half white half blue plane from 5-8 miles” – LOL. But that’s the ONLY thing you could say! I think you take my point.

“Tick-tack-toe formations on the sky” – CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS – “To prove whether these could be left by shuttle flights we need an opinion of an expert, pilot or a radar operator. I am neither, but these seems highly unlikely to me to be left by shuttles” – I am disappointed that you cannot accept my explanation. It is crystal clear in my mind, and I believe you don’t follow the logic. Imagine printing and reprinting an X on a sheet of paper. You produce a grid. It doesn’t matter which way you move the paper, as long as it isn’t directly along one of the crossing route paths. Aircraft are ten times faster than wind conditions so distortions are no more significant than those from the observers’ viewpoint.

What is even more unsettling is the IMPORTANCE attached to “GRIDS”.

“GRIDS” are meaningless, for the stratospheric contents are deposited hundreds, perhaps thousands of kilometres from where you see them. The stratosphere is hardly ever MOTIONLESS, and GRIDS are the PROOF of it, and NOT the consequence of some organized campaign. (Much as dense contrails are the PROOF of clean air, and not the reverse).

“Tell me what you think about an idea to sent a balloon into a trail like that and gathering a sample” – Hopeless. The balloon would have to be free, and you would have to find it. Radio? No. You can’t steer it, and as it crosses the tropopause the wind direction might easily change to an unwanted one (it’s one of the stratosphere’s characteristics). No, you MUST hire a fast small private jet.

You must also have synchronized video cameras trained on ALL the test equipment ALL of the time, with NO PART EVER LEAVING THE FRAME. The plane-mounted (temporarily) capture equipment MUST take the sample from the trail IN SIGHT of the emitting plane, and that plane has to be identifiable and identified (civil or military number) IN THE FRAME. With VERIFIED CLEAN EQUIPMENT, AN INDEPENDENT OBSERVER, AN INDEPENDENT CHEMIST AND BIOLOGIST, you can then GUARANTEE that you have INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE.

(But it will be of water, carbon dioxide, trace hydrocarbons, NOX, SOX, so I wouldn’t bother if I were you!). Testing of aircraft exhaust products been carried out by various interested parties over the last fifty-five years.






And as for “GeoEngineering” – don’t make me laugh!

As a proportion of the AREA of the EARTH the United States is INSIGNIFICANT, at under 2%.

As a proportion of POLLUTION OF THE EARTH, Man takes THIRD PLACE, behind burning forests, rotting tundra, farting animals, and ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ACTIVE VOLCANOES.





When the air is less than fully saturated (mostly) the contrails are slowly reabsorbed. When the air is warm and quite dry (typically like a warm summer’s day low down in the troposphere) you cannot see contrails at all – the steam is dissolved into the air before it gets to form the tiny ice crystals that the “vapor” clouds are made of.
Contrails are also formed inside the wing-tip vortices of tightly-banking fighter planes, and you can frequently see landing aircraft trailing long ribbons of vortices from the outside tips of their flaps on wet days. These are identical to the clear approach cone of a descending tornado: the high vacuum rapidly cools the water vapor in the air, causing it to condense into very fine droplets.


Hi 4,

There are possibly more explanations than the one I give now, so it is important for you to think around the problem and discover others.

The stratosphere is made of transparent ribbon-like layers, typically like large slow-moving rivers. They are flowing OVER the troposphere, which is the Earth’s boundary layer and is around five miles deep.

In the troposphere (which is warmed from below by the ground) you have invisible thermals which rise about a mile before they form CUMULUS clouds. As these rise and cool by ADIABATIC EXPANSION, they condense their water vapor into first water, then ice. Because they are dumping water and gaining buoyancy, their rise is like a slow explosion, and they PUSH UP against the stratosphere, RAISING IT, sometimes by a thousand feet or so.

The transparent stratospheric layers don’t “mind” being lifted, and for a while compensate for their “surprise cooling” by becoming MORE HUMID. On occasion you can see STRATUS forming ABOVE a CUMULONIMBUS by stratospheric displacement. This happens WHEN the humidity is forced ABOVE 100% – if there’s something for the water vapor droplets to nucleate upon. Otherwise the layers go to a SUPERSATURATED condition – and remain transparent.


So along comes a plane and contrail. (A twin jet passenger plane leaves TWO trails from its engines, but they rapidly become ONE as they are gathered up in the plane’s MASSIVE WAVE VORTEX). That vortex is like a giant SMOKE RING pulled out along the plane’s course. Another way of looking at it is as TWO rotating “cylinders” geared together by friction. There’s a LOT of energy there: it corresponds to the main part of the DRAG that the engines are working to overcome for straight and level flight. Light aircraft have been brought down by the wave vortex of a jumbo jet FIVE MILES away.


THAT is the MIXING ENERGY that causes the layer to fill with cloud. If the layer is SUPERSATURATED, even MORE ice condenses upon it (it can increase its weight A THOUSAND-FOLD OR EVEN MORE) and parts of it will FALL, which is why you sometimes see PENDULES and VIRGA as well.

These are all NATURAL PHYSICAL PROCESSES. They are random and fascinating, just as are waves breaking on a sea shore. But they ARE natural…

PS – A great deal of insight may be obtained by scouring YT for Atom-bomb explosions. Here you’ll see pressure waves, rapidly-forming cirrus and many other temporary effects as a huge point source of high energy is released and the cloud punches its way through the troposphere, BEYOND the stratosphere, into the ionosphere.



A New Wave Conspiracy

It’s a brave new world…. with YouTube COMMENTS!

the powers that be (world leaders) are shape shifting reptilians who want to kill us all slowly. they practice human sacrifice and start all the worlds wars. they also want to keep the fish from seeing planet x which is heading towards earth and will wipe out most of us on or before december 2012! 11 onoes!

Your joking right? You cant possibly be this stupid.

its called the US govt….. not like police and all that good stuff but all these secret organizations that do stuff while the media distracts you with bullcrap like the awful “swine flu” which was no different than the regular flu just in a different time or year 😛

why would they just spray chemicals into the water, thats just stupid

its called depopulation.. ask the WWF.. look up ‘eugenics’ watch ‘aerosol crimes’

Dont listen to the retards and morons here, you are right to not believe this complete BS.

2:09 FOOT

209 FOOT 209 FOOT 209 FOOT

Very funny, but chemtrails are real. hold in mind, that contrails need temperatures below -40degreee Celsius and know that the temperature falls 6.5 degree Celsius with every kilometer high – and now look up on a hot summerday, is the plain with its long trail far away enough?

WRONG! I guess you think that as you look at the sky, the layering is all uniform. You don’t understand that there are pockets of warm and cold air floating through the layers. This explains the start/stop trails also. But go ahead, PRETEND that you understand your own atmosphere, just as all chemtards do, Please educate yourself on the facts. “Chemtrails” are a myth that stupid people fall for.

pockets of warm and cold air? Entropy! – in heaven we may believe all …? What`s about the fact, that long white, persistent trails are connected to political systems?

Keep telling yourself that! I laugh at you paranoid morons. You are living in fear of lines of frozen water vapor while connecting them (for no reason) to “political systems”. It doesn’t get any more pathetic than that. Don’t worry, I’m not going to try to talk you out of your beliefs. I like the comedy.

search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one. Are the people in these countries immune to conspiracy theories?

“search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one”. Because they aren’t STUPID. Let’s face the reality here. Neither one of us has a snowballs chance in hell of convincing the other that we are right. I’m cool with that! If you want to believe in bullshit about “chemicals” in these trails, (regardless of a COMPLETE lack of evidence) GO FOR IT! But don’t waste your time trying to convince me. I will NEVER believe in “chemtrails”. I understand the scientific explanation too well to be suckered into believing such bullshit.

Regardless of whether or not you are correct, you are true to your name, as you certainly are a shill.


I think your going for PLANE not plain, guess that’s shows the intelligence of the people that believe this shit. You honestly think that in every case, every kilometer high you go that the temp changes by exactly 6.5 degrees? You are a moron.

Thank you to correct my bad english – you understand what i mean. The 6.5 degrees per kilometer you may google. Just type in: “temperature flight high” or so. Compare several results.

First the air, now our water. What’s next, chemtrails on our land!

Well, I’m convinced. You had me at “shocking”.

Really? This is so stupid… And if they were, what would be the purpose?

That’s exactly what people say about chemtrails. Geez, you wouldn’t recognize a parody if it took a crap on your head.

control of water sources

To kill you.

lol. I like it.

What about the bali pattern?

This is true. google mkultra. The aluminium nanofibres allow Haarp to control individual sheeple like puppets. The nanotechnology is programmed to crawl inside the brain. That’s why alzheimers folk have aluminium plaques in their brain. They were the first test subjects of the technology. That’s what the psychotronic weapons mentioned in kucinich bill allow.. remote mind control of human beings. Now they are even spreading it into our water supply and fish we eat. Fish are called brain food!!!!

lol nice vid

haha, this is completely ridiculous. Is this a joke?

these chemtrails are out of order, and now there doing this to our water.. this is a clear sighn of the NWO and how there making us drink there chems, swim in there chems, fact the NWO have reserves of water in the south and north poles.. FACT chem trails are real. This is also a clear sighn that NWO are trying to get our water ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. FACT- they been spraying the skys for a long time to get us ready so the reptilian’s can breath in our atmosphear, drink our water.. the proof is in the pyramid’s.. do a search in google about retilians and the pyamids also pyamids being in water.. FACT the NWO are close to there goal. look at 1:30 to 1:34 in this documentry , you can see where they are pumping the chems from hidden under ground pumping stations, proberly run by the NWO and AL Gore .. FACT- Al Gore is for global warming because he gets paid big time by the NWO whitch he works for, FACT- the new world order are getting (our) planet ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. and this means warming the planet up, so the reptilians will be comfortable.

Now they are finding lots of mercury in fish like tuna and dolphin and sword that we swallow. Not just aluminum. Guess what mecury is.. A metal, and it is even used in switches and conducts electricity. That means the seaspraying could be spreading mercury to get in our food and brains. If there is electrical switch metal in our brain they could control it and switch things off and on with radio without us knowing anything

FACT : You have to wear aluminium foil helmets and your brain will survive.

i have just put in an aluminium foil liner in my motorcycle helmet will that work garbas?

shoot chem trail planes on sight!!!



leave a comment »



Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page… 



 Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.

I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I’m entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.


Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn’t been written by the CIA or FBI.

Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.

At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed “experts” because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.

When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.

As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.

Read my blog… 


JEFFLETTIS“retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you’ll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail” – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU’RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!

bonkers21 LIES, DAMNED LIES,


Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.

Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History

George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
“Creation science” disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these “secrets”? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.

This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.

We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.

Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.

Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.

I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his “doubts” about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: “Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn’t generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that.” The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. “You’re right,” they said. “It did seem strange…”

Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.

The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.

The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. “Expert testimony” is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.

Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy’s government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: “I think it is possible.”

Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed “without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services”. Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to “the myth of the Jews’ massacre”.

In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: “The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics.”

We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other’s fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other’s eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.

In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a “man-made Pentagon genocide”, that Pope Paul VI “was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978”, that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.

Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.

But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.

The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.

Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and “superfoods” that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.

Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.

The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.

But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.

These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.

Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that “the British Government was involved in some way” with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.

The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.

‘Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History’ by Damian Thompson 



“Please quote any “lie” I have mentioned to you” OK, WILL DO

“The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees” – FALSE
“Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions” – FALSE
“you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails” – LIE
“no credentials” – LIE
“are a government debunker” – LIE
“unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue” – LIE
“your spam postings” – LIE
“over and over you continue to waste space” – LIE
“you offer no information” – LIE
“Post after post you avoid this”
“with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect” – LIE
“You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish” – LIE
“You must dance because you sure dance around the issue” – LIE
“your time wasting typing” – LIE
“all you discuss is how a cloud forms” – LIE
“doesn’t have the guts to do the real science” – LIE
“you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn’t” – LIE
“no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails” – LIE
“so called experience” – LIE
“Useless posting and disinformation” – LIE
“of a so called engineer” – LIE
“I have made no claim of any lethal status” – IMPLICIT LIE
“you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts” – LIE
“sham” – LIElies

That’s TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer. 


there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work. 


This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.

It’s analogous…

Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.


Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban. 


email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don’t relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?

I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven’t responded.

Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for “chemtrails”, it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.

You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.

Aerosol “sprays” may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only “aerosol sprays” that exist.

I am glad that you think that “almost all” of my “posts on the subject are true”. Which posts do you think are NOT?

It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.

Get real. I’m living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn’t strike the individual as hard as it does in the “temperate zone”, and I just get by.

The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.

Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date. 


You’re looking at WATER…

Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.

1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable. 


“The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.

You’ll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly.”

Bless him… he toned his “probability” down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :


Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth’s atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That’s ALL! 


Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)

Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don’t know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).

As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN’T looking: it’s called the “observer effect”. The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.

Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.

The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth’s surface.

So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.

In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That’s 6% of the whole.

Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT. 


Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.

Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that’s all.

Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…

I have two friends with interesting stories…

The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn’t once…

The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council’s claims otherwise. He HASN’T been bothered by authorities: he’s kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…

Try this Vaughan-Williams’ composition – he’s a Welshman like me.

We are a more Latin race than you Saxons… 


“I’ve heard you’ve gotten acquainted with JP” – much to my surprise, yes

“I’m Marius” – and I’m Tony

“Nice to meet you” – hmm. We’re not “meeting”. Meeting would be better…

“He told me you were well worth the talk” – How does he know?

“In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots” – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.

“I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories” – me too. JFK is reason enough.

“I’m having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies” – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I’d never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.


The Bard of Ely - he's green but he ain't mean...

Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I’d JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…

“I’ve barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?” NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I’ve heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.

“Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? “let’s jump on the conspiracy wave”-thing?” – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don’t do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn’t an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.

“Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?” – It’s 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)

“I’m from Norway, myself. It’s nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million” – half that here

“Have a nice day!” – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.


(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author’s name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he’s more flattered than offended. )


“They’re made out of meat.”


Meat. They’re made out of meat.”


“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So … what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal!  Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”


“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …”

Director: Stephen O’Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds

westward view just before sunset at Las Americas

Driving Around Town

with 2 comments



Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…


Dude, the writing is on the wall, give us all a break!


Contrails ARE a man-made cirrus. The daily dumping of a MILLION TONS of ICE into the very cold and rarefied stratosphere is LIKELY to SATURATE it. The WAVE VORTEX of each passing plane is a powerful STIRRER. It would be unreasonable for you to expect blue skies as a consequence. Do you ever travel by air?


If that writing on that wall weren’t an incoherent scrawl of mistakes, myths, lies, and deceit, without a SINGLE evidential trail, I WOULD give you a ‘break’.
But there is NOTHING there…
I quote: “Let us stop the fakers & hoaxers who ruin the credibilty of certain subjects with their moronic videos who spread lies, hate & deceit, catching people in their web of delusion. We are against doom and gloomers & UBDCT’s: “uneducated basement dwelling conspiracy theorists.” It is not a crime to expose the slanderous lies these people tell, and debunk their videos with conclusive evidence, more like a social duty.”
like planes leaving long “clouds” that linger for hours and turn nice days into shitty ones, and speaking of shitty, watch you tone with me pal, you are coming off as a total asshole.
I thought you said you watched the whole 9:56 of the video. I am talking about about those black clouds at the end of the video the planes left behind. let me explain a simple fact to you, I live in Las Vegas, you might not know this, but Vegas is like a small island surrounded by desert, we have one major airport, and one major air force base, and outside of the city limits there is no other major cities for hours. its like living in a fish bowl, its easy to notice things

personally, i think they have turned the atmosphere into a huge plasma screen. it ought to get interesting around the 17th of this month when we switch to all digital delivery of television signals.

wow makenwaves, you got hit by epoxynous and jazzroc! that puts you in the bigs! keep posting, and keep watching the sky and the weather for more freak tornados, downpours, droughts, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature.
p.s. thanks to jazzroc for bagging the soda pop line…

I am going to post a new video every Sunday night, because I have noticed Chem trails every Sunday Morning, and from this week forward, I am going to document it, and along with it I am going to post numbers and address to local and national offices that people can use to express their thoughts on the matter. its time to start asking the right people some serious questions, and don’t worry, Jazzroc will not be listed.

Contrails mon. Go to wikipedia and type in “contrail”, for a pretty good explanation of the mechanism. The planes in your vid that did not have contrails were too low for them to form. It’s thought that contrails affect the weather, but I’m not sure it’s been proven positively.
There are NO chemtrails. That’s bs from the fringe. They want you to buy their books and videos. Of course, if you’re a true believer, I’ve wasted my time typing this. Truth, reason and logic does not apply to them.


Men at WORK…
DUST in air,
Pollens flying everywhere…

City smogs,
Sun, wind, air,
Distribute “poisons” everywhere.

See a trail…
‘Tis but a CLOUD,
It’s IGNORANCE that shouts so LOUD!


“pictures prior to 1998 hardly showed vapor trails” – Wrong. First seen 1943 US B17s daylight bombing of Nazi Germany from 29,000 feet. All stratospheric flights since.

“identified as military KC-135 planes” – ALL planes leave vapor trails, short to long, dependent on stratospheric humidity.

“why do they appear when humidity v. low” – THERE’S NO CONNECTION between troposphere and stratosphere. It can be (and often is) DRY down here and WET up there.

“why can’t they be tracked on flight explorer?” – KC-135s? Why can’t you track the MILITARY on flight explorer? Are you serious?


www.forum.planeta.com – The difference has led to some surprises, said Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist.

www.greenbug.synthasite.com – From those isolated contrails, unmixed as they were with the usual dozens of others, Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center, and his colleagues were able to gain valuable insight into how a single contrail forms. Those once-in-a-lifetime data sets are so useful that Minnis is about to analyze them again in an expanded study.

Briefly Empty Skies Offer Climate Clues
The ideal way to measure such an effect would be to look at the same piece of sky when air traffic is heavy and when it is absent, said Dr. Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
But the skies are never devoid of aircraft. At least that was the case until Sept. 11.
Since then, Dr. Minnis and others have been reviewing satellite images of clouds and contrails. “Near dusk on the 11th, the only contrails in the East were three streaks heading from Nebraska to Washington, almost certainly Air Force One and its escort taking President Bush from Offutt Air Force Base to the White House”, Dr. Minnis said.
Everything matched, he said: “the trajectory and timing and the fact that nothing else was flying.” The most valuable data were collected the next day. Only nine military flights crossed a region from Ohio to Virginia, an area normally cloaked in cirrus clouds from the 700 to 800 jets crossing daily, Dr. Minnis said.
With those images, his team was able to chart precisely how those nine threadlike contrails fanned out over five hours to form a shield of cirrus clouds covering 24,000 square miles.
Dr. Minnis provided other satellite views of the area on a more typical day which show a broad area of clouds fringed by fading contrails. Having an isolated view of individual contrails spreading into clouds should allow scientists to refine computer systems that scan satellite images for contrails’ effects, he said. “Ultimately,” he said, “the observations will refine computer models of the overall effect of aviation on climate”.

AGU newly elected Fellows
Patrick Minnis NASA/ LARC, Hampton, VA

AReCO in the News
NASA scientist Patrick Minnis has studied contrails and believes they may have a prominent role in global warming. A 2002 report by the British Scientific Commission agrees, concluding that “aviation-induced cirrus clouds will be a significant contributor to warming.” But Minnis says another NASA study concludes that the contrails have little effect on global warming. Further research is being done.

Contrails, the thin, white clouds that planes leave behind in the sky, are responsible for a portion of the warming recorded in the USA from 1975 to 1994, says Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Virginia. During that period, the USA’s average temperature rose by 1 degree – hardly a heat wave, but significant by climate standards.
Minnis acknowledges that it’s difficult to calculate exactly how much of the U.S. warming is attributable to contrails. It could be only a small fraction. Even so, he says, the contribution is “significant.”

Air Traffic
A research team of American and German scientists, headed by Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reports evidence that contrails cause a warming of the Earth’s atmosphere.
From those isolated contrails, unmixed as they were with the usual dozens of others, Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at NASA’s Langely Research Center, and his colleagues were able to gain valuable insight into how a single contrail forms. Those once-in-a-lifetime data sets are so useful that Minnis is about to analyze them again in an expanded study.
In a study published in 2004, for example, Minnis and colleagues reported that contrails are capable of increasing average surface temperatures sufficiently to account for a warming trend in the U.S. between 1975 and 1994.

But some climatologists believe Minnis and his colleagues may have overestimated the contrail warming effect.
For his part, Minnis intends to keep his eye on condensation trails and their aftereffects.

“This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,” said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
The study was published April 15 in the Journal of Climate.”During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,” he added.
“This study indicates that contrails already have substantial regional effects where air traffic is heavy, such as over the United States.As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,” Minnis said.

When air traffic was grounded after September 11th — NASA scientist Patrick Minnis was astonished to see contrails from just 6 fighter jets cover more than 11-thousand square miles.
Other scientists noticed that without commercial traffic show thermometer readings with the red temp range increasing from 80 to 78 … to 80 to 75) to temperature swings between daytime highs and nighttime lows widened by as much as 5 degrees. Minnis now believes contrail clouds increased surface temperatures in the United States up to one full degree between 1975 and 1994.

Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric researcher with California Environmental Resources Evaluation System (CERES) and ardent chemtrails critic at NASA’s Langley Research Center, reports that cirrus cloud cover over the US is up 5 percent overall because particulates in engine exhaust are acting as cloud-forming nuclei.

in their limited airspace, says Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. Contrails form and then disperse to look almost exactly like cirrus clouds.
Minnis and his co-workers tracked them to see how they spread, presenting their results at a 2002 meeting of the American Meteorological Society and incorporating the data into models.
On a global scale, Minnis’ team reported in the April Journal of Climate that from 1971 to 1995, cirrus coverage increased over the northern oceans, the United States and Western Europe, matching growth in air traffic over those regions. Eastern Asia also saw an increase. Humidity measurements incorporated into the study, Minnis says, indicate where contrails (and cirrus) were likely.
“When it comes to human impacts on climate”, Minnis says, “contrails are one of the most visible.”

On this point of fact, the program’s government expert, Pat Minnis of NASA claimied that all exhaust, commercial and military, was perfectly normal.
The Associated Press distributed a lengthy article, praising the findings of Minnis.

‘This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,’ said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
The study was published April 15, 2004 in the Journal of Climate. ‘During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,’ he added.
‘It indicates that contrails should be included in climate change scenarios,’ Minnis said. Minnis determined the observed one percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States is likely due to air traffic-induced contrails.
Using published results from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (New York) general circulation model, Minnis and his colleagues estimated contrails and their resulting cirrus clouds would increase surface and lower atmospheric temperatures by 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade. Weather service data reveal surface and lower atmospheric temperatures across North America rose by almost 0.5 degree Fahrenheit per decade between 1975 and 1994. www.agu.org/inside/fellows2009.html

“The jury is out on the impact of contrails,” said Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Langley, Virginia.

Project scrambling for funds “We’re scrambling trying to find other funding,” so far unsuccessfully, says Patrick Minnis, a NASA atmospheric scientist who is a leading figure in contrails research.
Meanwhile, scientific data are growing ominous: *Cirrus cloud cover has increased an average of 5 percent over three National Weather Service stations in Northern California since 1971, says Minnis, who is based at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va.
It is presently impossible to know how much, if at all, Minnis said. But he says that much increase in cirrus cloud cover would cause anywhere from 0.5 to 1.2 degrees Fahrenheit increase in temperature “if all things held equal.”
The amount of global aircraft emissions is expected to increase by up to six times by the year 2050, based on studies by the International Civil Aviation Organization, Minnis says.
Says Minnis: “You’re going to see more contrails because the number of airplanes is increasing”.

During the days after 9/11, when the FAA grounded all commercial flights, Smith tells us that it provided an opportunity for Dr. Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center to perform some research.
Minnis was able to study the affects of a single contrail’s movement from the Washington, D.C. corridor tracking it through the mid-Atlantic states.

A research team of American and German scientists, headed by Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reports evidence that contrails cause a warming of the Earth’s atmosphere.
“If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy,’ ” says atmospheric scientist Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. “Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them.”

According to AFP, Patrick Minnis, a senior researcher at Langley, stated that the man-made “cirrus clouds are already having an impact on climate, increasing temperatures on regional levels as much as two to five percent. “Hmmm …I wonder how long it will take my chemtrail debunker knuckledraggers to smear and eat their own? Think they’ll be calling Minnis a kooky conspiracy theorist anytime soon?

Travis’ results are difficult to argue with, says Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. He and his colleagues will report their analysis of satellite images of contrails at the same conference. In a series of photos taken Sept. 12, individual cloud trails of high-flying military aircraft stand out clearly in a nearly cloud-free region west of Washington, D.C. In just a few hours, six contrails, each of which started out a few meters wide, spread to cover more than 20,000 square kilometers. The observations of these single contrails along aerial highways normally crowded with dozens of aircraft may help scientists develop better models of how contrails spread and affect climate, says Minnis.

Patrick Minnis (N.A.S.A.), Ayers, Rabi Palinkonda, and Dung Phan from Analytical Services and Materials, Inc., of Hampton, Va.
‘As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,’ Minnis said.

It indicates that contrails should be included in climate change scenarios,’ Minnis said. Minnis determined the observed one percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States is likely due to air traffic-induced contrails.
Using published results from NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (New York) general circulation model, Minnis and his colleagues estimated contrails and their resulting cirrus clouds would increase surface and lower atmospheric temperatures by 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade.
Weather service data reveal surface and lower atmospheric temperatures across North America rose by almost 0.5 degree Fahrenheit per decade between 1975 and 1994. Minnis worked with colleagues Kirk Ayers, Rabi Palinkonda, and Dung Phan from Analytical Services and Materials, Inc., of Hampton, Va.
As air travel continues growing in other areas, the impact could become globally significant,’ Minnis said. ‘This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect,’ said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The study was published April 15, 2004 in the Journal of Climate. ‘During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady,’ he added.

Presenting on March 2 will be Dr. Patrick Minnis of the NASA Langley Research Center.His lecture is titled “Global Warming – A Cool Appraisal.”
Currently their impact is currently small as compared to other greenhouse effects. They predict, however, that it may grow by a factor of six over the next 50 years. The researchers emphasize that these are conservative estimates, which take into account only the thicker contrails that can be readily observed.
“If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy,’ ” says atmospheric scientist Patrick Minnis of NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. “Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them.”

Air Traffic Blues – Popular Science
Patrick Minnis, the senior researcher of the NASA study, admits that the outlook is gloomy. ‘It’s not like you’re never going to have a blue-sky day, he says, but you’re certainly going to have fewer and fewer’.

AirHead : News
Dr. Patrick Minnis, a senior research scientist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, reported that his team was able to use satellite photographs to track the nine contrails as they spread out to create a layer of cirrus clouds covering 24,000 square miles over five hours.


Yes, they actually DO stumble into a government office, make unsubstantiated accusations, receive dull acknowledgment and bluff denial, and leave without leaving ANY document of any sort.

The hapless government is obviously perplexed, but too polite or stupid to ask WHY they are there, for he can see no reason for it.

He cannot see the tiny spy videocamera they have pointed at him. They are a 39 buck bargain buy. That is the reason. What’s that smell?

You are invited to contact Ross Bell (530) 225-5674 or email rebell@co.shasta.ca.us and ask him what he thought he was doing in a government office with a spy camera and unsubstantiated accusations.

The comments (remember YouTube comments run backwards in time) will have run on in their nasty way since this WHOLE DAY of baseless accusations and unanswered practical questions:

Hi witless, I see you’re
STILL adhomming away like there’s no tomorrow
STILL avoiding ALL the practical questions
STILL losing your temper when you’re losing
That last part was never suggested in my Jay Reynolds piece called
which you will find on my page “HERE”, at
jazzroc. wordpress. com
You should reread it and get back up to speed
You should learn to delegate – not defecate
Genuine Bull does it better

Well, it has been fun exposing the incredible dishonesty of the disinformation trolls but I have some things to do. Catch all you skywatchers later.

@EnergySupply2008 Let the “evading” begin…
Why did they bring NOTHING (except of course a SPY CAMERA) to that office?
Let’s see you even START to even answer them
What was it? Ah, yes
Get going, then…

@beachcomber2008 google: “persistent contrails”

@flickervertigo1 Also google: chemtrails and crimes against humanity.
@beachtroll2010 What exactly is your problem? How did you end up being a lousy, lowlife, lying shill, who is ruthlessly involved with trying to cover-up the illegal and murderous chemtrail spraying campaign? What happened, your parents didn’t show you any love growing up, so as a result you feel the whole world is going to suffer because of what you didn’t get as a child?

Why can’t thousands of air samplers running 24/7 find them?
How can airborne dust (containing clay, therefore aluminum) be distinguished from these particles?
Where and who are these “injured people”?
Why didn’t the “investigators” bring? this INFO into the office?
Wouldn’t it have been to their benefit to have done so?

@beachcomber2008 “Why can’t thousands of air samplers running 24/7 find them?” Do you really think a covert operation like chemtrails would allow for data on air samplers to be released to the public? Moron. Aluminum at 6900 times and 122200 times normal in rain and snow cannot be clay. Moron.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “…Aluminum at 6900 times and 122200 times normal in rain and snow…” – please post the provenance of those samples, including when and where they were collected, who collected them, the name of the lab that did the testing, and the chain of custody from the time of sampling to the present.


@EnergySupply2008 Air samplers are privately manufactured by private companies and are are privately bought by members of the public throughout the western world
You could go and buy one tomorrow
Yet NO-ONE ANYWHERE has produced EVEN A SINGLE VERIFIED CHEMICAL ANALYSIS of the filtrate sheet out of one of these machines
There IS a good reason for this: you are all INEPT
You cannot do the science, you cannot do the math
You cannot even produce a FAKE
You haven’t a ……. clue
You just THINK you think

these “chemtrail” people are accusing… who? …of serious crimes, so they are obligated to provide evidence of those crimes, adhere to the rules of evidence and the chain of custody procedures that safeguard evidence.
but the “chemtrail” people apparenly have no concern about due process, evidence, logic or justice.
why is that?
google: “rules of evidence”
google: “chain of custody”
these guys refuse to provide any evidence, but we’re supposed to believe them…
it would be so sad, wouldnt it, if we had the altitude, temp and humidity present when these pictures were taken, and those altitudes, temps and humidities were just right for forming contrails?
it looks to me like alex jones is getting ready to ditch this “chemtrail” business… otherwise, he wouldnt have posted such an inept video. i guess it could be, though, that he’ll persist with the chemtrails, operating on the theory that texans have been dumbed down far enough that they’ll vote for him despite his loony theories. another “wait and see” situation, i spose.

@flickervertigo1 Like waiting for Nibiru


@flickervertigo1 Hi flicker… are you having any success today in your efforts to cover-up the truth of the ongoing chemtrail spraying campaign?

@Skywitness The reason so many disinformation trolls get into trouble is because the deck is stacked against them. Truth can never be stiffed forever and the disinformation trolls do not even believe what they are saying. Their lack of belief puts them at a HUGE disadvantage. In those moments when they are alone with themselves, the horror of what they are doing eats them up inside.

@EnergySupply2008 if you cant post evidence, give us one good reason to believe you. all we got is pictures… no flight data, no meteorological data, no samples with credible chain of custody… the rules of evidence have gone out the window. why should we believe you?

@EnergySupply2008 Yes it does eat them up, because somewhere in their lives there was someone who sincerely gave them love and or helped them out in their lives. They know that they are repaying decent people with hate and destruction because of all their lying in an effort to cover-up the chemtrail spraying campaign of death. No matter what they do, they can never justify their actions within themselves and as a result they suffer.

@Skywitness I have a different theory. I believe that anyone who could be so adamant that chemtrails are not real, when they clearly are, has never really had anyone love them. Their parents were neanderthals who did not show them love, therefore, they hate everybody because they never learned to love even their parents.

@EnergySupply2008 You might be right…I think I’ll go ask the beachtroll what his problem is.

@flickervertigo1 Actually, Alex Jones said about three weeks ago that his chemtrail film will be out in late summer, early fall.

given the absence of proof, we have to assume that this chemtrail propaganda project is nothing more than an effort to befuddle americans… which will make them easier to herd around. let’s see some real evidence… or are you content with a system of “trial by youtube”, due process, justice and evidence are irrelevant.

@flickervertigo1 In war, one should never reveal their game plan to the enemy. Chemtrails are war on the people and? the people will prevail, good always does eventually. The evidence you seek is in the sky in plain view.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 says, “The evidence you seek is in the sky in plain view.” what pressure altitude are the airplanes flying at? what is the temperature and humidity at that altitude? you have no idea about the altitude, temperature and humidity, so we have no idea whether or not contrails are possible. we seem to be pressing the limits of gullibility, here.

@flickervertigo1 You forget that you signed up with Youtube just today and came straight to this video with strong anti-chemtrails crapola. YOU cannot even be honest about what your real account name is so YOU have NO credibility here. YOU are a non-person.

@EnergySupply2008 if your lawsuits are gonna have any chance of success, you’re gonna have to come up with credible evidence. so far, you’ve been unable to provide any credible evidence. that evidence would include, of course, data showing the altitude of the airplanes, and the temperature and humidity at that altitude. none of that has anything to do with my youtube account, does it?

@flickervertigo1 As I said, this is war, and I would not reveal the evidence people are working on, because you do not give your enemy that info.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “this is war, and I would not reveal the evidence people are working on, because you do not give your enemy that info.” it’s so convenient for you, isnt it…?…so very convenient that you’ve absolved yourself from the responsibility of providing evidence… most likely because you can’t. do you suppose the altitude of your “chemtrail” airplanes is secret? …is the temperature and humidity of the air mass they’re flying through secret, too?

@flickervertigo1 Altitude, temperature and humidity bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. 50 years, no white lines in sky, 25 months MASSIVE white lines in the sky. Nice try though.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “50 years, no white lines in sky, 25 months MASSIVE white lines in the sky.” …and we’re supposed to take your word for that, just like we’re supposed to take your word for the existence of “chemtrails”… despite your unwillingess to provide evidence or data. you seem to be unable to understand the big thing here: if you could provide reliable evidence, we would have to believe your stories. but you got no evidence.

@flickervertigo1 “and we’re supposed to take your word for that” Check out this video with no less that 41 chemtrails and tell me that is normal.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “…no less that 41 chemtrails”. how many operations happen daily at atlanta?  in conditions of persistent contrails, what would be so astounding about 41 contrails in the sky at the same time?

@flickervertigo1 “in conditions of persistent contrails, what would be so astounding about 41 contrails in the sky at the same time?” Lived 50 years, NEVER saw one damn “persistant contrail” – In the past 25 months I have seen at least 7000 of them and possible as many as 20000.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “…NEVER saw one damn “persistant contrail” ah. maybe you should google “persistent contrails”, then.

@flickervertigo1 He will have not understood you.

@EnergySupply2008 and for good measure, google: “contrail cirrus”.

@EnergySupply2008 ” If your enemy is superior, evade him. If angry, irritate him. If equally matched, fight, and if not split and reevaluate.” – Sun Tzu, the art of war [as quoted by Bud Fox in the movie “Wall Street”]

@mikemb123 Sun Tzu and YOU? You’d better EVADE, SPLIT & RE-EVALUATE, then. Any PROOF of “chemtrails”? Thought not…

@beachtroll2010 Do you ever get ashamed of yourself for investing so much of your time in lies and deceit? Even though you think of yourself as one of the higher ranking trolls in the disinfo game, what do you expect to get for your efforts in trying to cover-up the truth of the chemtrail spraying activities?

@Skywitness Is this proof of chemtrails? NO.

@beachtroll2010 Hmmm…beachtroller is evading.

@Skywitness You? Well, yes, I guess. Just in the same way I step over dogshit on the sidewalk. It’s healthy to do so. Meanwhile, as ever, you provide NO PROOF of your accusations.

Look how mystified the guy looks here, with his privacy intruded with a spy camera. You think it’s OK to do this because he’s THE ENEMY. But actually, you’re WRONG, and this man’s privacy is intruded upon. That makes YOU the enemy…

@beachcomber2008 Public servants work for the taxpayer so no, this guys privacy was NOT invaded. Have you ever had a genuine thought in your entire life? I thought not.

@beachtrollr2010 Hmmm… beachtroller has reevaluated, and is trying the bleeding heart for other’s privacy distraction. Your own words prove you to be a babbling idiot. You’ll cry like a baby over this man’s privacy, but in truth you don’t give a damn about everyone else’s privacy that is being invaded by the results of the chemtrail spraying. A lot of ailments and death have been inflicted on people because of the chemtrails that you are desperately trying to cover-up. Hypocrite.

@Skywitness Evading the tough questions is what the disinformation trolls are the very best at, that right there shows that they are NOT genuine people and cannot be trusted. If they could only see themselves as everybody else sees them then they would realize their battle is already lost. 98 percent of the people are good people. The trolls are vastly outnumbered and the situation gets worse for them every day, as more people wake up to chemtrails.

@EnergySupply2008 “Evading the tough questions”… Could you post the FULL info on these “test samples” & how they were collected? Could you post the altitude, temperature and humidity of your pictures? Where exactly, and from what, are these particles emitted? If from the engines, why aren’t the exhaust flames COLORED by these particles? If they exist, where will these particles be the day after tomorrow?

@beachcomber2008 The rain water samples were collected from a single days rain in a rain gauge. Almost all engines today are turbofan engines for fuel economy. 80 percent of the air they intake bypasses the combustion process and exits out the back. A nozzle in the back of the engine could inject the aluminum into the bypass air. It would not have time to heat the aluminum oxide and it would not burn, therefore no color. but the white aluminum oxide.

@EnergySupply2008 says, “A nozzle in the back of the engine could inject the aluminum into the bypass air.” you got any pictures of “chemtrails” that are present immediately behind the engine? …or do all your pictures show the normal lag time and distance required for the water vapor to condense?

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@EnergySupply2008 says, “…anyone who could be so adamant that chemtrails are not real, when they clearly are, has never really had anyone love them.” …or, maybe people who are skeptical of chemtrails are concerned about justice, due process, and real evidence instead of youtube videos.

@flickervertigo1 They flagged you as spam. There’s no limit – they are AT WAR you see. It’s important to them, just as it is to lemmings.

@beachcomber2008 what’s so wrong about asking for real evidence, i wonder? these people are accusing other people (too bad they cant seem to pin down exactly who’s to blame) of “crimes against humanity”… you’d think, given the seriousness of the charges, these people would come up with some evidence. *shrug*.

@EnergySupply2008 Ingenious.

Perhaps you could point out exactly where you imagine the SPRAY RING might be here:

And explain how all this glowing white powder NEVER shows on the inner engine nacelle. Are they ALWAYS WASHED immediately upon landing, or is TEFLON added to the mix? Are airfield engineers given secret instructions as to how to rig this spray ring every overhaul?

@Skywitness Correct. Beachcomber2008 is the A team for the disinformation trolls. Whenever the more stupid disinformation trolls gets in trouble, Beachcomber2008 is sure to show up. I have seen it time and time again over the past year.

@EnergySupply2008 That’s true…and the funniest thing of all is that when he shows up, he ends up looking more foolish than all the rest of the ridiculous trolls.

@beachcomber2008 There is only no proof if you do not make an honest effort to see it. My go a rounds with you in the past, demonstrate very clearly that you are a non-person because you refuse to take a look at the evidence. Deaf, dumb and blind, that is your motto.

@EnergySupply2008 so, first of all, since you have no flight data, we can assume that your “chemtrails” are most likely contrails. since you have no reliable evidence — you’re not following the rules of evidence or documenting the chain of custody of that evidence — your evidence is inadmissable. no flight data, no evidence. …and no credibility.

@flickervertigo1 If I had flight data, that would prove no aluminum is coming out of the planes? Are you really stupid? Time to call in the disinformation A team, you are not very good at what you do.
@mikemb123 This enemy is just plain dumb, they think they can explain chemtrails by calling them contrails. So the enemy is obviously not superior. Are they angry? Damn straight, because they have so much going against them. People are not as stupid as the enemy would like to believe. Thanks for keeping up the fight.

@EnergySupply2008 if you could post the altitude, temperature and humidity of your pictures, we’d be able to judge whether or not contrails were possible. but all you got is pictures… no flight data, but we’re supposed to take your word for it… “those are chemtrails”. seeing as how it’s gonna take weeks for your particles to settle out — assuming for the sake of argument particles are present — by which time those particles will be thousands of miles downwind… well, then what?


@flickervertigo1 It is NOT about altitude, temperature and humidity. 25 months ago when they began spraying my area, it was just like turning on a light switch. 50 years of blue sky followed by 25 months of some of the most horrible looking sky imaginable. To think you can get away with your agenda, you absolutely must think your enemy is stupid. There are vast numbers of people not as stupid as you would like them to be.


@EnergySupply2008 how can you expect us to believe you about your “light switch” when you are so reluctant to provide any data or evidence?

@flickervertigo1 I am not reluctant to provide data. Geo-engineers conference in February 2010 talking about spraying 44 BILLION 92 MILLION pounds of aluminum PER YEAR. Obama’s science adviser on record, stating in April 2009 that they are vigorously discussing spraying particles into the atmosphere. 60,000 Youtube videos showing horrific looking sky. RAIN water tests at up to 6900 times normal aluminum. Snow at up to 122,200 times normal aluminum. The fact that you are a moron evades you.

@EnergySupply2008 talking about geoengineering and doing it are two different things. please post evidence that geoengineering is taking place, now. 60,000 youtube videos could be evidence of contrails, all right… yup. please show us the chain of custody of the rainwater and snow samples, and provide evidence that those samples were collected in accordance with the rules of evidence.

Pay no attention to the endless disconnected ramblings of flickervertigo1. Flicker is another one of the numerous disinformation failures who try and trick people into believing that chemtrails are not real. This is their way of trying to cover-up the truth of the ongoing chemtrail spraying campaign.

the beauty comes in “might makes right”. you don’t need proof or evidence. all you need is a belief in “might makes right”. if it’s not a matter of law, and verifiable evidence, then what is it a matter of?  must be a matter of faith. …faith in what?  faith in the fucked-upness of israel? america? surely you don’t need chemtrails to have proof of that. so it’s always the same old thing… the chemtrail people can’t come up with any proof, so they resort to distractions. where’s the lawful proof of the existence of chemtrails?

@flickervertigo1 “so it’s always the same old thing, the chemtrail people can’t come up with any proof” The proof is in 60000 Youtube videos about chemtrails, RAIN and SNOW tests with up to 122200 times normal aluminum in snow, what geo-enginners are discussing, what Obama’s science adviser John Holdren says, that the white house is discussing geo-engineering. It must suck to be you with so much mounting evidence. I pity you, you sold your soul for money.

@EnergySupply2008 you dont have any “proof” that will stand up in a court of law. but that’s okay. law and rules of evidence and justice no longer count for anything. welcome to america.


@flickervertigo1 Don’t worry, people from all walks of life are working on suing the government over chemtrails, and the proof they have would blow your socks off.

@EnergySupply2008 too bad your “proof” cant be posted on youtube, isnt it? your “proof” is the same quality of proof that we used as an excuse to kill a million people in iraq.

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@EnergySupply2008 says, “the proof they have would blow your socks off.” but it’s a secret, isnt it? just like the evidence we used to start those wars in afganistan and iraq. where’s the data about pressure, altitude, humidity, and temperature?

@flickervertigo1 It is NOT about pressure altitude, humidity, and temperature. THAT is just what the disinformation trolls want us to believe. It is about the 3450 micrograms per liter of aluminum in RAIN water and the 61100 micrograms per liter in snow, when the EPA certified lab said 0.5 microgram per liter is normal. It really is too bad for trolls like YOU that your argument is so damn weak.

@EnergySupply2008 if it’s not a matter of presure altitude, humidity and temperature, why did the people in world war II pay so much attention to presure altitude, humidity and temperature when they were trying to defend themselves? where’s the data? and late night radio was useful in fucking up the minds of people who had time enough to think… assuming that people who could stay up all night were marginal, and might come up with real ideas. so it became a matter of managing the collapse. the collapse would be easier to manage if the hapless citizens of america were reduced to idiocy.

there was, in the beginning of the israeli american empire after WW2, a certain amount of faith in science and logic… that degenerated pretty quick into propaganda…. because, by 1970, it had become fairly obvious that american oil production had peaked, and was on its way down. carter tried to warn us.

Late night radio, like art bell, has given the lunatic fringe a certain amount of credibility. you have to wonder about the timing. seems like alex jones has political ambitions, so he’ll have to come around, sooner or later, to common sense, which means he’ll have to abandon his chemtrails. rense could be content with his position… willing to stick with his chemtrail position to the bitter end…. and end so fucked up that his position is the least of our worries.

in the meantime, late night radio is probably the worst thing that ever happened. you can present evidence that is credible, or you can continue to be ridiculed… if you can come up with real evidence, i’m on your side. if you cant come up with real evidence, i’m not. simple.

@flickervertigo1 Also notice that the new scum posts a barrage of posts just like counterasshole.

@EnergySupply2008 have the rules of evidence been given some special dispensation? is there some rule — that the rest of us are unaware of — that exempts you from proving your case?

@Everybody Google – Megatons of aluminum to rain down from global experiment – The article is about the February 2010 geo-engineering conference, held in California. From around the world GEO-ENGINEERS got together and discussed spraying up to 20 metric MEGATONS (44 BILLION 92 MILLION POUNDS) of ALUMINUM PER YEAR. Aluminum destroys plant DNA. That is a fact.

@EnergySupply2008 ah. so global warming is the real deal. huh? do you have any evidence that this project is underway?

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 would you like to comment on alex jones stance on global warming after “avatar”, a movie that blew reality to hell, we’re supposed to rise up in arms and start shooting… who?… on evidence which consists of youtube videos. good deal …but, given america’s performance lately, maybe justice and truth are not really that important. maybe the only thing that counts is the number of people you can kill. who you gonna kill? who’s doing the chemtrail spraying? you don’t even know that.


@flickervertigo1 Notice the style of writing of this new piece of scum. Every sentence gets a new paragraph. SAME writing style as counterresonance or whatever his name is.

america was apparently built on the gullibility of its citizens… i dont see any reason why america should not be destroyed by the gullibility of its citzens. one scam after another, but we no longer have the resources to sustain the nonsense. which doesnt deter sociopaths from looting as america goes down.

Am I having a deja vu experience…Oh, that’s right, it just flicker again spewing forth the same useless babble.

@Skywitness if you could discipline yourself into providing one instance of real proof, and the evidence to back it up — evidence that adhered to the accepted rules of evidence and the chain of custody of evidence– i’d be on your side. but you cant, and i’m not.

@flickervertigo1 LOL….?

any sociopath with any ambition, and an appreciation of how far we’ve fallen, would become a looter, because there’s no sense in playing. the game isnt worth playing anymore. so you find a wrinkle to cash in on, and so what if that wrinkle further demoralizes your countrymen. things have degenerated to the point that it’s every man for himself, and if you can cash in on sheep who bleat about chemtrails, so be it.

Flicker, how has MrGopherHead been doing lately? He deleted some of his posts and then fell off the radar. I’m sorry, what were you just saying?

@Skywitness you can grow up and find real evidence, or you can continue to cash in on the gullibility of your countrymen.

@flickervertigo1 Open your eyes, there’s plenty of evidence of the chemtrail spraying… how many times do you have to be told this? That’s right, I forgot… you’re paid to keep your eyes closed.

@Skywitness if there’s so much evidence of chemtrail spraying, why are you unable to provide evidence that conforms to the accepted rules of evidence? google: rules of evidence. google: chain of custody.

@flickervertigo1 What do you know about evidence? You’re paid to keep your eyes closed. Google: open your eyes.

@Skywitness you don’t have a shred of real evidence.

@flickervertigo1 I bet you say that to all those who expose the chemtrail operations. LOL

@Skywitness says, “I bet you say that to all those who expose the chemtrail operations.” the problem seems to be this… you have no credible proof that chemtrail operations exist.

@flickervertigo1 Really, who says, you and all the other disinformation shills? Hehehe….BUWHAHAHAhahaha…..

@flickervertigo1 Here YOU go YOU piece of scum. In this video, I count no less that 41 seperate chemtrails and it is TRULY MASSIVE. Come back here and say “oh, that is just normal clouds” then everyone will have all the proof they need to know that YOU are truly scum.

@EnergySupply2008 since when is a youtube video legal proof of a crime? …especially in view of the fact that you have no other “evidence”? why are you unable to provide critical data, which would include altitude, humidity and temperature? we have to assume that you dont care about justice. if you were concerned about justice, you would provide iron-clad evidence before you started accusing people of mass murder.

@flickervertigo1 You sound guilty flicker…very guilty. Is there something you need to talk about?

@Skywitness says,”You sound guilty flicker…very guilty.” yup. i’m pretty guilty. i’m guilty of spotting horseshit at an unseemly early age.

@flickervertigo1? YAWNnnn…

@Skywitness where’s the beef? you dont got no beef. most likely, though, most chemtrail enthusiasts are useful idiots looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

@flickervertigo1 Go flicker go!… how many distracting and useless posts can you post in a minute? Don’t forget that you failed in your efforts to debunk the video of the low altitude chemtrails which were sprayed below the Cumulus clouds.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@Skywitness says: “Don’t forget that you failed in your efforts to debunk the video of the low altitude chemtrails which were sprayed below the Cumulus clouds.” dont forget we have no idea how high the clouds were, and we have no idea how high the planes were. we have no idea of the temps or humidity at those altitudes, and we have no idea of the winds aloft. but given all that lack of evidence, you’re wlling to accuse people of genocide. wonderful. so we’re nibbling around the edges of the usefullness of this “chemtrail” campaign, aren’t we? chemtrail enthusiasts are not nearly mighty enough to bomb chemtrail sprayers, nevermind evidence proving the existence of chemtrails. but the impotence of people who believe, without evidence, that chemtrails exist demoralizes them, makes them easier to push around. in the long run, we have to start wondering who the chemtrail people are working for.

@flickervertigo1 Hehehe… flicker sounds like one of those feds who is trying to bait people into talking about payback. On an info fishing expedition are you shill, oops, I mean flicker?


of course, it might makes right, there’s no need of collecting real evidence. all you have to do is accuse someone of something, then bomb them… and that seems to be the US operates, these days. so… you got the right to bomb these “chemtrail” sprayers if you’re mighty enough to bomb them. simple. and fuck a bunch of justice.

for starters, it would be good to know the altitude of the clouds in your video “Low Altitude targeted Chemtrail Spray… below the Cumulus Clouds”… and it’s necessary to know the altitude of the airplanes that made the contrails. looks to me, depending on the winds aloft, the contrails could be higher than the clouds, but we don’t have enough data to figure out what’s going on there, do we?

@flickervertigo1 Nice new account there flicker that you started today…this wouldn’t be another of the numerous shill accounts that are here on YouTube, would it? LOL. Btw flicker, you sound just like the poster who goes by the name of groundresonance1. Oh my, you wouldn’t be the same person now would you? LOL..again.

@flickervertigo1 Everyone click on Flickervertigo1’s profile. He signed up with Youtube TODAY and came straight to this video. Obviously he is a disinformation troll.

flickervertigo1 This has been flagged as spam
@EnergySupply2008 please explain why you are unable to come up with proof of chemtrails. you accuse people of a project that will kill millions. why are you unable to substantiate your accusations with evidence that would hold up in a court of law?

message to truthmedia productions. Thanks for the work you are doing. however as you can see nobody is able to post comments on your videos because you refuse to take the time to block the trolls. Thats why your great videos are now failing to get more views and comments. nobody can really talk here as long as the trolls are here doing there job so I’m going to stop trying to post comments until they are blocked.


@mikemb123: would you mind telling us what it is that exempts you from the rules of evidence and logic?

get a new cameraman!

@justthefactsmam the camera was hidden, what do you think this is a joke, he was confronting a real fascist here.

@mikemb123: judging from your lack of response, you are unable to post evidence of chemtrails forming in areas contrails could not form. you are unable to cite evidence that was collected in compliance with accepted procedures… the “chain of custody”… see wikipedia “chain of custody”. given the total lack of credible evidence, we have to assume you’re running some kind of scam.

@groundresonance1 Here’s video evidence of 2 chemtrails that were sprayed at a low altitude below the Cumulus Clouds where contrails do not form. “Low Altitude targeted Chemtrail Spray…below the Cumulus Clouds”

@Skywitness you have to know the altitude of the airplanes, the temperature and humidity at that altitude to tell whether or not contrails are possible. what is the altitude of those contrails, and what temperature and humidity is present at that altitude?

@flickervertigo1 Do your homework on clouds. The clouds in the video I mentioned, are not at an altitude where contrails can form; and the chemtrails are below these clouds.

@justthefactsmam It says right in the description they used a hidden camera. Pretty difficult to know what you are filming with a hidden camera.

hello everybody… Echo echo echo…

please post evidence of chemtrails forming in areas contrails could not form.


“you must work for the gov” – NO I MUSTN’T. Perhaps I’m on a beautiful sub-tropical island and my sky is BLUE.


“can’t believe the rationale” – I CAN’T BELIEVE YOURS. We live in a marvellous age of invention and design, where BEAUTIFUL passenger aircraft can take people all around our Earth at affordable prices and fabulous efficiencies, and you lot are staring up at the WET skies (an obvious and natural consequence of this) thinking you are being poisoned – by WATER.

“defence mechanism’s working overtime” – NO, YOURS IS. YOU ARE BECOMING MENTALLY UNBALANCED BY FALSE WORDS – “CHEMTRAIL”, for instance.

“what covers our skies” – IS WATER.

“phoney stars” – CLIFFORD CARNICOM?

“underground military bases” – Have been around since WW2.

“chemtrail video troll” – Another FALSE WORD.

“same comment” – SAME DELUSION.

“spend 24 h/day” – Well, you are self-deluded 24 h/day.

“Do you get paid for this shit” – “this shit” is SCIENCE and GOOD ADVICE. No, I don’t get paid by ANYONE. The only SHIT round here is your paranoia.

“Our skies go to shit” – What do YOU know? They are merely becoming WETTER.




Look up http://www.contrailscience.com and/or MY BLOG and go get yourself a life…


MxMxSxDx is an “inside job”

It’s not the volcanoes my friend…it’s the idea of the New World Order pumping chemicals down on our damn heads guy! Just as they fluoridate our water…sounds like you’ve been living in a jazz fantasy, you need to wake up and smell the globalisation man, over here we are moving towards total enslavement.

MxMxSxDx, If you consult my blog you’ll discover that persistent contrails have been photographed since 1940, and that “chemtrails” simply do not exist at all.

“Proof” of “chemtrails” is EXPOSED as mere confirmation of persistent contrails, the existence of which is CONSISTENTLY DENIED by “chemtrail” conspiracy theorists… but they have NEVER marshalled a SINGLE scientific argument in their defense.

So if the MEANS doesn’t exist, then “New World Order pumping chemicals down on our damn heads” is HARDLY LIKELY TO OCCUR, is it?

It’s like you saying “He is going to shoot me!” and my replying “He hasn’t got a gun“. He could still STAB you! But HE HASN’T GOT A GUN SO HE CANNOT SHOOT YOU!

And anyway, if FLUORIDE is so damn effective, why doesn’t he poison you via THAT vector?

Get a LIFE!




This is about a video purporting to be the inside of a government chemtrail aircraft made by an Italian “gentleman” calling himself nicscics. His preamble goes: “Look at the luggage drawers on the right side in the photo. Let’s consider the operations necessary to dismantle something. If you get an assembly of the interior of an aircraft for tests, you don’t have to mount the luggage drawers, because you do it after. Vice versa, when you dismantle, you remove only what you need to remove. On my opinion, it’s clear that this is not an aircraft used for some test, as many people guess, even if the furniture is similar to what is used for flight test. We can see that in an aircraft used for flight tests, there are not luggage drawers. It’s logic: this furniture is not assembled, before tests are over. But in the photo you can see this furniture, i.e. four luggage drawers. So I think that this is a dismantled airplane. Any other “information” against this hypothesis is, in my opinion, very suspicious.”

And then Tim White, Viet Nam Vet (USAF), “Concerned Citizen” writes: “The C.I.A.-N.S.A facility at Pinal Airpark-Marana, (Arizona) is the most important centre that modifies a wide range of aircraft types to conduct the chemtrail spray operations that began the entire United States in November of 1998. Prior to this, selected areas of the U.S.A. had chemtrails operations to test all the technology employed in these chemtrails spray operations and to determine parameters related to aircraft performances and atmospheric conditions. The program is conducted under different code names: “Operation clover leaf”, “Operation raindance” and so on. It is now spread in many countries in the world.
The photo shows the inside of a chemical tanker, that may be was a civil airplane, in which the original furniture was substituted by hydraulic structures, managed by an automatic and computerized system. In the photo, look at the containers probably used to stock chemical liquid compounds (trimethylaluminum) connected by means of a complicated tubes system. Look at the writings: over the black and yellow square, you can read “Sprayer!!”, below “Hazard inside”. Upon a container on the right, you can read “Lock care”.”

(The above video, titled “Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer”, remained in YouTube after I was ejected for a further six months, disappeared, and then reappeared under a different title “Chemtrails from the Inside”.)

I was startled and concerned by this, for I couldn’t see how this would come about, knowing as I do that in general, the physics of “chemtrails” would require tanks that would not be at all like these “barrels”, and wondered whether they weren’t, perhaps, a device for varying the CG of a prototype aircraft.

I happened across a YTer calling himself ToniEvola who appeared to be knowledgeable in this area, and asked him what he thought this might be. Although he thought he was talking to a “chemtrailer” he came up with this stunning revelation, which it delights me to share with you, seeing as SCIECHIMICHE are generally a stunningly professional bunch of liars.

“hi jazzroc – Please man, think with me for just a second. Use your brain and leave all the incoming external media channels apart that try to influence your brain, just for a second. (I know its probably my wasted time since I know you want to believe it’s really happening.) With commonsense ask yourself these questions:
Do the barrels contain chemicals? If so… then why did they bother to put the “hazard inside” placard only on that “cabinet”?
Also, according to nicscics, one of the “containers” reads: “Lock care”. Same question, why did they bother to put it only on that particular “container”, while all the other “containers” are identical?
I’ve been asking other simple questions that any one can answer with a little bit of effort. Thing is… do you want to answer the questions, and find yourself looking at the whole deal from a different point of view? Or do you want to dismiss everything straight away? And believe what you are forced to believe. I hope you can continue to read this as I will show you my side of the story, like you asked.
The first thing that came in mind was: new build aircraft in testing phase. The “containers” are water tanks that are filled to weigh, trim and balance the aircraft, and the avionics computer in the back monitors all the test data. I then searched on the net to find a clear copy of the photo myself.
I managed to find the one I posted here above and immediately you can notice some differences. Instead of “Lock care”, this photo clearly shows “Load bank” written on the tank. And instead of “Hazard inside” it shows “Hazmat-inside”. Also the cabinets appear to be lavatories and you can see people working in the back. But let’s keep on searching for more, since the “sprayer” part still seems odd.
Nice thing to know is what kind of plane it is. There are 2×3 seats installed on both sides of the aircraft with still space left in the middle. This means that it has to be a large wide bodied aircraft. With my experience I can clearly see that it is not an Airbus, because they use different tanks and setups. So it has to be a Boeing and that leaves only 2 wide bodies that are wide enough to seat 9-10 people on one row, the 747 and the 777. I’ve worked most of my career on 747 aircraft and I know one when I see one, so this has to be a 777. The last couple of years Boeing have built them newer, larger, and with a longer range. Plenty of testing had had to be done on them.
Here are pictures that I found, that I want you to look at. You probably won’t like to see them: From the official Boeing website, here are some photos from the first ever build Boeing 777-200LR (Longer Range). This was the aircraft that broke the record of longest non-stop flight ever:

(broken link)
And then please specifically take a look at these pictures that start to answer your question:

(all broken links)
You can see some familiar things on these pictures. It must be strange when a “secret, dismantled” chemtrail plane starts to look like a brand new Boeing 777 that is being prepared for test flights, don’t you think?
That leaves one thing still unanswered. What does the “hazmat-inside” placard mean? I decided to search on airliners.net for more photos. What I found was the photo that explains it all:
You can scroll down for yourself on this page to find the original photo where “suddenly” the placard is “gone”. There’s also another photo taken from the opposite side. I hope this will clear things up for you.”


Sadly, over time, some of these links are now broken. Shame…



Planes are made by people. The ten thousand people at Boeing that teamed together for many years to produce their new (in 1995) 777  became adept by telling each other their troubles, and giving and receiving help as a consequence. It is a wonderful story.

Now compare these wonderful people and their actions with NICSCICS, “Straker”, and TANKERENEMY. What do YOU reckon?

Written by JazzRoc

October 29, 2008 at 1:00 am

Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, chemtrails, contrails, science, Truth, Uncategorized, war

Tagged with , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Not Coming

with 2 comments

This is a lenticular cloud - and not an Adamski Scoutship



Don’t forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…


People queuing up to be poisoned by a sprayer whose pilot was just too lazy to switch the spray off

This gentleman really means “No!” He has decided the way it is, and anything that doesn’t fit the way he sees it, is OUT.

Hey Jazzy, you seem to find me about every 6 months or so. I can’t return comments on the re:on off video so i thought I would PM you. First to set it straight, are you debunking this guy?:
I know there is more to this whole topic than meets the eye. I am professionally trained in the field of thermal transfer and am fully aware of the conditions of our atmosphere. I have a better than average grasp of physics. And am a practicing expert in philosophy.
That said, any information you have of the current global attempts at controlling/modifying the weather would be appreciated. I have gleaned from our “discussions” that you know more than you are letting on. Why do the bulk of your ilk argue in the same manner? Act open to discussion yet when the chips are down, retreat behind a veil of name calling. G

First to set it straight, are you debunking this guy?:

No. Michio is setting things straight here. A whole generation of radiation meters under-read a while back. The first time such meters went into space they read NOTHING. This was because the radiation overexposure SATURATED them. All that needs to be done is add some redundancy to the network, so that info can be moved out of the way of the storm. Satellites in earth’s shadow remain useful, and advance warning of approaching storms is already in place.

I know there is more to this whole topic than meets the eye. I am professionally trained in the field of thermal transfer and am fully aware of the conditions of our atmosphere. I have a better than average grasp of physics. And am a practicing expert in philosophy.

I don’t believe you at all. Anyone with the slightest grasp of physics knows you are barking up the wrong tree.

wobbly moment as spray pilot misses the switch in the gloom

That said, any information you have of the current global attempts at controlling/modifying the weather would be appreciated.

There are none. Just you bunch talking up a storm.
1. Teller’s Bar/Al Welsbach materials need placing higher in the atmosphere than planes can fly.
2. It’s possible to make liquid organic metals but they are expensive, corrosive, prone to spontaneous ignition, and don’t pump easily. If burnt in a turbofan they would destroy it in seconds,
3. If burnt in a turbofan there would be no GAP in the trail between the exhaust and the trail beginning. Instead the exit flame would be colored green or white.
These three objections, coupled with the fact that a jet is a 2000 deg F FLAME rule out completely ANY chemtrailer notion. One’s enough…

I have gleaned from our “discussions” that you know more than you are letting on.

Of course I do. It’s a huge field and 500 chrs is a small space to play in.

Why do the bulk of your ilk argue in the same manner? Act open to discussion yet when the chips are down, retreat behind a veil of name calling.

It’s a product of your hypocritical rose-tinted glasses worn as part of a partisan group. The opposite of what you say is almost always the truth. I certainly find personally that any chemtrailer’s assertion is a negative pointer to the truth of any matter. Faithinscience is abusive, and stands alone. I am normally abused after my first question which receives no answer, The abuser never seems to notice what he does. It’s almost like “Tourettes syndrome”.
In atmospheric physics the behavior of aircraft has been well understood for sixty years. Hundreds of papers have been written minutely examining the contents of trails to thousandths of a percent. These days they are measured and assayed using laser interferometry from satellite or ground.
It is known that in the stratosphere a jumbo can lay down thirty-five pounds of ice for each yard of forward flight. Did you know that?
The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice. Did you know that?
Now can you put one and one together and see what your mind has been doing to you?

I did not know that, and still don’t. I can not find any corroborating evidence to support such a claim, Ice is 977 times denser than vapour – a far cry from 10,000.
If Michio Kaku is so sure about a coming solar storm, you think nothing is being done about this? You don’t know about haarp and the other 25 such devices around the globe. The inventor/developer of this technology is on the record stating its scope of use?
I am well aware of contrail science, but normal contrails do not act this way, at least they didn’t when I was younger. If the reason for the extra spreading of contrails as of late, is normal, there is serious pollution issues in the stratosphere. And we should be rallying to put an end to this waste.

You cannot find corroborating evidence because you only find “chemtrailer” lies. To avoid them you must use “Advanced Search” and include “-chemtrail” and “-aerosol” in your search terms. Then if you search for “paper stratosphere aviation combustion ice trail cirrus cloud”, for instance, you get an entirely different set of results.
We’re all sure of the approaching storm. The solar cycle is well understood. I’ve told you something is being done about this. HAARP has nothing to do with this. The Sun can be hundreds of times more powerful than HAARP. The scope of use doesn’t extend as far as countering a solar storm – nor could it ever.
You aren’t aware at all of anything. You do look silly contradicting thousands of clever hard-working people. Everything you have been talking about and believe about “chemtrails” is DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED BY REAL SCIENCE. Since when was ICE pollution? When water vapor comes out of solution in the air of the stratosphere at -40 deg F and seven miles up, it materializes as PURE ICE. The initial “pollution” of the internal combustion engine becomes diluted TEN THOUSAND TIMES. That makes it quite fresh…. As I have told you previously, EVERY word you utter points in the opposite direction to TRUTH. You waste my time. Go to a library.

This is exactly how i use the term aerosol. You are an ass. Well? Facts: you can’t back such a bs statement: “The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice.”

“Well? Facts: you can’t back such a bs statement: ‘The ice laid in what is technically known as a “persistent spreading contrail” can be ten thousand times heavier than the exhausted ice.'”

This reference I gave to you previously.
Page 17, second column second para: “The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 1.6 x 10^4 gm per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude greater than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values.”

Do you want more DIRECT CONTRADICTION, or is that enough for you? By the way “orders of magnitude” means “powers of ten”. FOUR orders is 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 10,000… Got it? Further searches along the lines I have already indicated to you will bring up further corroboration. If you have the courage to undertake it…

3 to 4 is a fair jump. would you not agree? And from a nasa science lab to boot. “ahh a thousand, ten thousand whats the diff! ”
There is ample eye witness testimony, doctor reports and interviews, lab reports, professional statements, police fireman… all leaning towards a large scale effort to prepare for the solar storms. HAARP may be a small but crucial element in this effort. To think a govt agency would state something intentionally erroneous is preposterous! ***warren commish, 911 commish *cough-cough*

It stated the facts precisely. It is YOU who pretends otherwise. It’s only one of many papers which all say similar things. Some of them are in different languages. The last time I looked there were hundreds. There’s none so blind as one who does not wish to see.
You ask for an example then give a spurious reason to dismiss it. You call BS and then weasel out.
Preparation for high solar activity is normal. Your slant on it is absurd. I’m sure you’re unaware how you’re now changing the subject. Warren Commission? Far out! Go back to school. Unless you haven’t been in the first place. And write me no more.

so you agree with Michio but not me? YES
There is absolute proof of world wide under ground construction. SO?
From Gates’ Norwegian seed cave to the Denver Airport, yet you deny this????? NO
The sun is about to do something never witnessed by modern man. BALLS
The scope of the ability of haarp includes protection from such an event. BALLS
Warren commission’s magic bullet and the 911 commission’s magic passport should raise the hackles on the most conservative of skeptics. BALLS
so you agree with Michio but not me? YES

The sun is about to do something never witnessed by modern man. BALLS
This is WHAT Michio stated, so one of your answers here is wrong, or balls is an affirmative to you. Which is it?
And as for the passport laying on the street unscathed, if you buy that then you are an idiot. there is no way a passport went through that explosion and ended up unscathed a few blocks away. no way. This, M. Atta’s passport was planted.

It’s going through an active phase so it MIGHT do something never before witnessed. That doesn’t mean it will. The way you interpret these facts is the BALLS. Same goes for the passport. You cannot conceive of it so for you it is inconceivable. While you fail to interpret these events, the REAL events are passing you by…

btw your response fits 3 of these:

It would, whether or not I was a “disinformer”.
This whole approach (of yours) IS disinformation. Everything “chemtrail” is LIES AND EYE-BULGING HYPOCRISY.
You only have to visit a library to find real information.
“Truth cannot live on a diet of secrets, withering within entangled lies. Freedom cannot live on a diet of lies, surrendering to the veil of oppression. The human spirit cannot live on a diet of oppression, becoming subservient in the end to the will of evil. God, as truth incarnate, will not long let stand a world devoted to such evil. Therefore, let us have the truth and freedom our spirits require… or let us die seeking these things, for without them, we shall surely and justly perish in an evil world.”
This above statement is out of YOUR literature. It APPLIES TO YOU.
Have you noticed how your OWN information NEVER recommends you visit a library? According to your “sources” it is often a “fact” that existing sources have been “tampered with”. Does that seem plausible to you? Each book made by the million, circulated to thousands of libraries, sold privately to hundreds of thousands of people. Each reclaimed and altered?
Every day some pathetic individual tasks me about conspiracies, smogs, fuels, contrails, 9-11, with some pet theory that seems entirely original to him. It’s not original. It’s all been done, and probably in the planning stage, by people trained and qualified and with your best interests to heart, for they have to live in your world too. They have already proved their intelligence and willingness to work hard. All you have to do is the same.
In the meantime, shut up with the crap. That worked for me, it could do so for you.

Have you noticed how your OWN information NEVER recommends you visit a library?
WTF? I started this whole thing off, asking if you, or that faith dude, if you had read Dr Eastlund, or Dr Begich or William Thomas, all available in libraries. You are an asshole, your “holier than thou” attitude would get a boot in the ass in person.

Only if I don’t smack you first. I read such technical books BEFORE Eastlund, Begich and Thomas. And I avoided being a creep too. The FACTS are holier than either of us. You’re the one who can’t deal with a technical report made by the finest scientists in their field. Learn to stand on your feet.

NO, Michio stated, “around 2012 the sun’s magnetosphere WILL flip, sending out a shockwave of radiation”, not might, or may. The unknown is the effect this will have on communications and the grid. So you are giving Mr Kaku the same “know it all” attitude. As for chemtrails, you know the causal effects pertaining to contrail formation, and could you not envision a way to increase this effect? People already have. Patents exist and have been bought by the US Navy.

ISS and Shuttle before the Sun

It won’t be doing anything it hasn’t done before “around 2012”. The reason why there will be an unknown effect of communication is that we have a higher dependency on this rather radiation-sensitive machinery known as microelectronics than we had the last time around. Any other reason you come up with will be a readout on your condition. The action of a turbofan on a low-pressure low-temperature supersaturated stratosphere could not be more extreme than it already is. Which you would understand if you have studied the subject, Which you have not. There are patents for a hotel on the Moon. Why don’t you go there? Now. While you’re there you could take a book or two… Make’em science books…

So then you do disagree with michio, man are you hard to converse with. Alter your comments and ignore facts for insults, like you are stupid, instead of saying “this is where you are wrong” type comment. I take it you did not even listen to the link of the leading physicists of our time.

The reason I am hard to converse with is that I break concepts down to their essentials where you cannot. You cannot, because you bring an agenda to the table of your own which you will support at all costs – as you have just demonstrated, for the above reasoning slipped by you as though it wasn’t there. Telling you where you are going wrong isn’t an insult. You’ll know it when I insult you. You’ll have to improve your stature first.

the navy hasn’t bought up all the moon hotel patents have they? By the time you are satisfied on this subject it will be too late. Again, insults instead of FACTS.
FYI: “…that the magnetic field of the sun undergoes a drastic change every 11,500 to 12,000 years.” That would make it modern man has never seen this occur. Of course you will bitch about the term modern man, I am referring to historic records, not evolutionary records. Oh we should check if you believe in evolution first, could be a whole can of worms with you.
Other time around? you are confusing this coming event with recorded c.m.e. events that have been witnessed. this pole shift has not been ever witnessed by a modern civilization. I am not extrapolating comments or theorizing on events, I am taking physicists words for the truth.
What i do think about is if there is proof our world leaders know about this and are doing anything to prepare/prevent or protect us from this coming solar storm. And by all accounts they are, yet you choose to insult and languish in your knowledge, acting like there is nothing in this world you don’t fully grasp. Shame.

“…that the magnetic field of the sun undergoes a drastic change every 11,500 to 12,000 years.”
Does that make the change due NOW, 500 years from NOW, or some time in-between?

I’m not about to instruct you, even if you look to me as pathetic as a goldfish that’s just flopped out of its tank. DO your own work. I had to do the same. “Modern”. LOL

See, yet again insults. Water off a ducks back, my e-asshole. You seem satiated with the power of ten in your facts, where as this one is what like 5%, Kaku and others have seen this event as happening in 2012, why do you think that could be? Our sun is acting the oddest it has since we have been observing it, yet you know better. Oh wise one!

Satiated with LOGIC, more like. You should try it some time.

there will be credible samples retrieved soon enough. You will doubt those at first as well.
one last thing: why does no one direct me to info on how the trail from a plane will thin out, width-wise, turn into virga and cover a quarter of the sky. Not one source for the science behind this, and not to mention this has only been occurring for the last 20 years or so. Pollution, perhaps. Then should this not be a wake up call to clean up our act. The tons of fuel burned daily to cart people around is mind boggling. 230 million gallons per day according to BP. Could this not be the factor increasing the so called persistent contrails?

The reasons why “no-one directed” you is that the explanation is complex. It is actually there, in the reference I gave you. In the report.
Simply speaking, it is helped by the aircraft’s wave vortex. The trails are swept up in it, turning inside out many times within it for several minutes. Vortex motion ceases some fifty miles behind the aircraft. The slight downward angle of the vortex would put that end hundreds of metres lower in the stratosphere. Trails ALWAYS fall. Also the two side-by-side trails can interfere with each other, and “link” together in what look exactly like smoke rings. This is called “the Crow Instability”.

As a consequence the underside of the trail adopts a “sawtooth” appearance. Each “tooth” is a virga. At every virga centre is a downward-moving column of air. This is where much of the ice deposition takes place. Because of the increased weight of the heavier ice particles they fall faster.
This whole process continues, falling through, until the surrounding stratospheric layer has no ice to give. As the particles fall down through the lower stratosphere they are falling into COLDER air, which supports them. The layers may be drier, so they evaporate there. (But generally the reverse is true: the layers get less capable of holding water vapor in solution as the temperature falls). It is possible that only when the ice crystals reach the warmer air beneath the tropopause, they finally evaporate. This will be normally a level surface. Hence the flat grey underside appearance you typically see. That underside will be between four and five miles high at European latitudes.

What I have written here is itself an over-simplification.
If you are really interested in knowing more, my blog offers many sources. You just have to follow the links till you get to the papers, and then look up the references the papers themselves leave. Do that for a while and you will know at least as much as I do, Maybe.

no, no, no…  you are describing a natural event, the persistent contrail.
In a week or so I will put together a video SHOWING what I am talking about. One of your cohort, jesuslives57, went through this same argument. I am referring to the complete thinning out of a trail, till it is spread wide open, filling the sky! Maybe you have never seen this occur. That would explain your position. There is no reason for a normally produced contrail to act like this, without some extra factor.
See, I have read up on all of this, have research atmospheric sites and have emailed meteorologist…all with no answer for my question. Most ignore, some, like you, repeat the known information, some like jl57, deny this is from planes!
I witnessed a plane over Victoria BC two summers ago. It flew directly over the city left three circular blobs, relatively small. These expanded until the sky was overcast. I phoned to get a friend to video them but no luck. These were not any way normal.

“The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 1.6 x 10^4 gms per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude greater than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values.”
This FACT is what you cannot accept. Many research papers have discovered the same basic information since 1953 when contrails were first analyzed in depth. You say “There is no reason for a normally produced contrail to act like this, without some extra factor” and I am telling you the extra factor is SUPERSATURATION. You must have seen this word before. You just DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT THIS IS. So study it. Study THE PHASES OF WATER. Use the advanced search exclusion process to find yourself some REAL TRUTH and not the lies you are accustomed to reading. You will discover SCIENCE and put away childish dreams.

why are you such an asshole? were you abused as a child? Look at the images from the 40’s of persistent contrails then look up! see the difference?
I am positive you do not know the effect I am writing about, as you are not addressing the topic.
I am professionally trained in thermodynamics, and am an adult. so you can eat your condescending attitude, shit it out and eat it again. I didn’t say I was mature. I went through some old videos, none really capture clearly what I have ONLY stated. And we must be very clear for you so you don’t dodge the point, yet again. I will post a video soon enough with your name on it, then please comment on how your non-belief in added particulate is responsible. There are doctors on record stating they treat the symptoms of exposure to these chemicals. They must be lying, ill educated morons also.

“There are doctors on record stating they treat the symptoms of exposure to these chemicals. They must be lying, ill educated morons also.”

How do you KNOW these symptoms are the result of “exposure to these chemicals”? Is that what the doctors actually stated? Were they actually a doctor, and not a fraud like Hildegarde Staninger?
What “linkage” is there here? Did someone say they saw a trail in the sky seven miles up?
If repeating hearsay and drummed-up uneducated witness testimony and the creepiness of people like Staninger doesn’t make you a lying, ill-educated moron, than I don’t know what will. Thanks for assuming that was what I was thinking. It saved me the effort.
“I am professionally trained in thermodynamics” yes, I heard you before. I don’t believe you were “trained” at all. Shown a book and videos, and asked questions, more like.
You don’t seem open enough to thinking to be educable. I obtained my training at the National Gas Turbine Establishment in its heyday, working on and designing modifications to gas turbines and test chambers.

I have my own empirical evidence of manufactured trails, relating them to you would be pointless. If Dr Hildegarde Staninger is such a moron, like me, why is the CDC conducting an investigation into Morgellon’s/unexplained dermopathy also? I guess they are full of morons too. Must be tough being so smart and trapped in that pathetic body! Well they say one is either smart or good looking, can’t have both!
I do not need to prove my education to you, but I am a refrigeration mechanic, energy transfer is a large part of the training. 5 years worth.
and needless to say top of my class. Your training should let you know that factors can be altered, there is ample proof to believe this effect is possible.

“One of your cohort, jesuslives57 went through this same argument.” And you call ME an asshole. JL57 and I haven’t ever exchanged more than a couple of dozen words. If you want to know who MY cohort is – it’s YOU. It’s a wonderful life…

“I have my own empirical evidence of manufactured trails, relating them to you would be pointless”
If empirical, it’s a first. Congratulations on your Nobel Prize.

“If Dr Hildegarde Staninger is such a moron, like me, why is the CDC conducting an investigation into Morgellon’s/unexplained dermopathy also?”
Because it is unexplained?

“9i guess they are full of morons too. Must be tough being so smart and trapped in that pathetic body! Well they say one is either smart or good looking, can’t have both!”
You must be REALLY good-looking! 🙂

“I do not need to prove my education to you, but I am a refrigeration mechanic, energy transfer is a large part of the training. 5 years worth.and needless to say top of my class.”
It’s a pity trusting the expertise and professionalism of thousands of atmospheric scientists wasn’t part of your curriculum. Perhaps if you don’t have it you cannot appreciate it.

“Your training should let you know that factors can be altered, there is ample proof to balieve this effect is possible.”
My training tells me persistent contrails exist, and things without any evidence for them need hard EVIDENCE before they are deemed to replace things which are KNOWN to exist.

If you had such evidence you would have rammed it down my throat, I’m sure. Here’s mine:

Empirical: originating in, or based on, observation or experience. Does this mean something else to you? I gave you the smart/ugly thing, you always go the cheap’n’easy route?
I never claimed anything about a gap, typical for the angry rebuttal types is to lump all together, I suppose I think there is a problem with the water because rainbows appear in lawn sprinklers, like that dbootsthediva person. Well now you have gone from a blanket denier to a “waiter for proof”, baby steps. The nozzles are placed, not in the combustion, but out the plane body, there are plane mechanics on record stating there are 500 gallon tanks on these planes. There are patents on aerosol delivery systems, bought up by the US navy, that detail such systems.

empirical :originating in or based on observation or experience. Does this mean something else to you?
Hard evidence.

i gave you the smart/ugly thing, you always go the cheap’n’easy route?
I never claimed anything about a gap.

NO. I’m telling you the GAP proves the absence of metals.

Well now you have gone from a blanket denier to a “waiter for proof”, baby steps
It’s just my experience of waiting and being disappointed by the trite crap “revealed” to me..

the nozzles are placed, not in the combustion, but out the plane body, there are plane mechanics on record stating there are 500 gallon tanks on these planes. There are patents on aerosol delivery systems, bought up by the US navy, that detail such systems.
Apart from the fact that ANYONE could type up a shitstorm (and they do) – there’s NOTHING. The PTB have obviously had a total success there… Patents – go visit the Moon.

trusting the expertise and professionalism of thousands of atmospheric scientists
like the Canadian govt scientists that have had a gag order placed on them?
who said anything about organic? The last decade has brought about monumental advances in polymers.

like the Canadian govt scientists that have had a gag order placed on them?


who said anything about organic? The last decade has brought about monumental advances in polymers.

Polymers ARE organic.


That’s all very stupid. Perhaps I should apply, eh? There’s enough STUPID as there is.



“If these are CONTRAILS, then WHY are they not coming from the engines” – THEY ARE*. It takes a SPLIT SECOND for jet exhausts to cool from 1100deg C to -40deg C. That can be up to 800 feet away at operational altitude. *Except in the case of aerodynamic trails and highly-supersaturated air.

“Contrails disappear within minutes” – NO. They can disappear in SECONDS in DRY AIR, or NOT DISAPPEAR AT ALL in SATURATED AIR, or ANYTHING IN-BETWEEN.

“some are indeed contrails, but lots of them are NOT!” – If you UNDERSTAND what I have just written then you NOW KNOW THIS STATEMENT TO BE UTTERLY WRONG.



They are indeed not healthy, but both are fitness itself compared with science-hating conspiracy fruitloops.

Volcanic action is twenty times more dangerous than aviation combustion, works 24/7, and doesn’t worry me either, because I know that Life air-conditions it. Fresh air itself was once volcanic effluent.

Something sensible to worry about would be the removal of forests and phytoplankton, but you don’t do sensible, do you?



(The life’s work of dbootsthediva):

“‘secret’, ‘hidden in plain sight’ weather eng HAARP” – There’s NOTHING as HIDDEN as something which DOESN’T EXIST. HAARP is a radio establishment IN THE MIDDLE OF ALASKA – A QUARTER WAY ROUND THE GLOBE.

“In the UK it’s mainly used to create the depressing uniform dull grey sky which has now become accepted as standard ‘British weather'”FALSE. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY – WELL, WAY BACK TO THE SIXTIES…

“But HAARP isn’t the only thing at work here” – IT ISN’T AT WORK HERE. IF IT WORKS AT ALL IT’S LINE-OF-SIGHT.


“orgonite cloudbuster” – NOR IS THIS. THIS IS NOT SCIENCE BUT FAKE.


“getting it in May 2006” – AND BOY YOU GOT IT.

“makes HAARP effects more obvious” – YOUR LUNACY MORE OBVIOUS…

“formation of artificial clouds” – YEAH, JUST AROUND YOU…

“prevents the grey cloud layer forming completely” – IN THE WINDMILLS OF YOUR MIND…

“leaving white clouds in an obvious strange pattern” – LEAVING THEM THE WAY THEY WERE…



“There’s also a few chemtrails in the background” – OF COURSE!


“58 secs Sensor Orb alert. and 1.01 too?” – SEE? GIBBER. GIBBER.

“Quantum Cryptography/clouds morph/smaller images/another image altogether” – GIBBER. GIBBER. GIBBER.

“tree leaves/pixels” – GIBBER. GIBBER.

“aerosol carbon coenzyme” – GIBBER “helps create” – A COSMETIC? “catalyst” – MAGIC SCIENCE WORD.

“chemtrail can expand instead of dissipating” – GIBBER!

“No stratus or cirrus cloud formations without the help of the synthetic plasma field” – ALL SINGING AND DANCING GIBBER!!!


“We are not in Kansas anymore” DOROTHY “not real clouds” – ESSENTIALLY WRONG!

“ultrafine powders & transparent liquids of multi layered metallic silica oxides varieties, bacteria, and chemicals to create different catalysts for different cryptography effects”




“ive seen chemtrails here in New Zealand & the exact same thing happens with the weather, what are they doing?” – I WILL DECRYPT THIS FOR YOU:  NOTHING.


Hi notrails,

The air in ANY clear blue sky ALWAYS contains WATER. It’s in the form of VAPOR. Water vapor is a CLEAR INVISIBLE GAS.

Reference to standard physical tables gives you the means to work out the ACTUAL amount of water present in a clear blue sky, and at a ground temperature of 23 deg C and a RH of 65% it works out that there’s 3,300 tons of INVISIBLE WATER VAPOR in the CLEAR air to the horizon from where you are standing.

In general, when you are looking at THE TROPOSPHERE with its blue sky with rising cumuli, it pays to remember there’s LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN WATER CONTENT between BLUE SKY and CLOUDS.

The STRATOSPHERE above ALSO contains water vapor. Its temperature just above the TROPOPAUSE is NEVER warmer than -40 deg C. Due to the INTENSE COLD and the THIN AIR, much less vapor can be held in the air, before it exhibits SATURATION or even SUPERSATURATION.

A passenger airplane at 35,000 ft and 550mph deposits its exhaust in the form of CO2 gas and ice crystals at, say,  50lb per mile. That’s about 25 lb of water per mile, laid as a “cirrus” cloud of intensely frozen ice crystals. The craft has a large wave vortex which acts as a “mixer” for the crystals and they are spread into that stratosphere’s layer.

If the RH of the layer is less than 100% then those crystals SUBLIME into water vapour, the trail DISAPPEARS, and THE LAYER’S RH RISES.

If the RH of the layer is 100%, the layer is said to be SATURATED, and the CONTRAIL PERSISTS INDEFINITELY.

If the RH of the layer is greater than 100%, the layer is said to be SUPERSATURATED, the CONTRAIL not only PERSISTS INDEFINITELY but also GAINS WEIGHT as water vapor freezes ONTO the contrail’s ice crystals. The HEAVY trail material increases its rate of descent (ice crystals are ALWAYS falling).

Now it should be OBVIOUS to you that REPEATED PASSAGES of AIRCRAFT through stratospheric layers INCREASE the RH of the layer to SATURATION, and WHEN that happens, TRAILS WILL PERSIST AND SPREAD TO FILL THE LAYER. BLUE SKIES WILL BE GONE…



Thanks for the imaginatively-titled cloud pictures. Always gratefully received. Your land is less of a desert than Tenerife. In fact it is very beautiful.


You’re a lucky man. Or could be…



I didn’t say you were nuts, did I? Check. Thanks for not censoring me, some have. For evidence, follow a civil jet with a quick light plane trailing a fine net & capture bottle. Analyse it yourself. I never found results like the ones claimed on my engine test bed.
The annual (24/7) volcanic action of Earth’s 1500 active land volcanoes outdoes Man’s 300 million tons of jet fuel by 2000%. Life has converted it into fresh air for at least 3 billion years. Worry about the forests and phytoplankton. Whoops…


Contrails can remain visible for very long periods of time with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics.

Contrails can form many shapes as they are dispersed by horizontal and vertical wind shear.

Sunlight refracted or reflected from contrails can produce vibrant and eye-catching colors and patterns.

Observation and scientific analysis of contrails and their duration date back to at least 1953.

The National Airspace System of the United States is oriented in an east-west and north-south grid with aircraft flying at designated 2000 foot increments of elevation (1000 feet after the introduction of Reduced Vertical Separation Minima in 2002-2004).

Contrails formed by aircraft may appear to form a grid as the winds disperse the contrails.

More contrails are seen in recent years due to the growth in the civil aviation market.


lingering contrail is not the best description” – Oh, yes it is!

A contrail will remain visible for longer with different humidity and temperature but thinning and creating cloud cover?” – Supersaturated air THICKENS the trail so much it falls as PENDULES. You have seen them…. As a trail IS ICE it IS CIRRUS CLOUD. As for filling a stratospheric layer, that’s EASY, the WAVE VORTEX supplies the energy. Some of that energy is STILL THERE half an hour later…. If you knew ANYTHING at all about the atmosphere (which you don’t) you’d pipe down… As it is you’re loudmouthing away, and I can’t stop you.


Read the patent holders comments about the multiple uses of H.A.A.R.P.” – It’s used to HEAT a line-of-sight AREA of the ionosphere. It is less effective than my microwave is for warming my tea. It’s a research establishment studying aspects of the near-vacuum in the ionosphere. It cannot be aimed directly at your arse unless you’re flying at 110,000 ft over Alaska…. and if you were, you wouldn’t feel a thing…. being a radio establishment it has strategic possibilities, but catalyzing clouds over Europe, for instance, is not one of them. It has the “beam focussing power” of Mr. Magoo.


N.A.S.A.’s comments on ozone replacement” – Go like “stop air travel and your problems will disappear (until the next volcanic eruption)”.

U.S.A.F.’s fuel additives” – Boron hydride? Nitromethane? Pfft – a few fast fighters? Solid additives to fuels would be REALLY DANGEROUS to the planes. Liquid additives couldn’t include aluminum or barium for various technical reasons. BLOOD PRODUCTS are a JOKE – surely? *(Since this I realize you were reanimating the MYTH that there is Ethylene Dibromide in JP-8). Wrong!

world wide spray programme” – Unachievable. THE WORLD IS FIFTY TIMES THE AREA OF THE UNITED STATES!

German airforce admits to mass spraying“* – A MOMENTARY CHAFF RELEASE IS NOT “MASS SPRAYING”. How is your ability to be LOGICAL? *(Since then I have discovered that this was a fraudulent mis-translation of the original German. Vicious.)

U.S. sprays radar imaging materials over Afghanistan” – Pfft. Next can please….

reports from pilots and air traffic controllers” – EVERY ONE OF THEM SO FAR OUT OF CONTEXT AS TO BE A LIE. More fraud.

real events happening above us daily” – A million tons of combusted kerosine = a million tons of stratospheric ice, mostly sublimed to water vapour, is what is REALLY happening daily.

I do not deny alot of the footage and discussion on the net is ill-informed and plain wrong” – GOOD.

William Thomas’ analysis of this subject” – HAVEN’T SEEN IT. SHALL LOOK.

it is not as simple as you try to write it off as in your videos and comments” – OH, YES IT IS! My videos are MUSICAL. Shows how hard YOU research…

I can provide url’s to all this information” – Oh, God. Send them.

And a final note your formula is for carbonated water not soda pop” – Haha. True, but a damned sight closer than ANY chemtrail statement!


Hahahahaha… …you all think you’re original and it’s the same old PAP! POP?

In return for wading through WT and your urls I demand you check out my blog.

There are at least SOME TRUE THINGS stated there…..




“aluminum, anthrax*, lupus*, fungus*, silver iodide*, barium, bacteria*, titanium” – Those marked * would be incinerated by a gas turbine. A turbofan’s exhaust is as STERILE as a hospital SURGERY. The rest you will find are COMMON INGREDIENTS OF HOUSEHOLD PAINT (Well, not the barium or silver)..

“the COMBINATION of pollens, auto fumes, and urban smog can cause severe auto-immune failure, asthma, and death in the young, weak, or elderly”


I’m quoting myself here. Didn’t you read it? HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!


“Admire your passion” – that’s me – passionately pissed-off by brainless panic-mongering.

“prior to 1998 are extremely rare” – Cheap video cameras were. Persistent contrails WEREN’T.

“of military origin” – Military? THEY take pictures of EVERYTHING.

“trails are spewing directly from the plane” – EASILY HAPPENS in super-saturated air. You ought to thank your lucky stars when you see that, for it means THE AIR IS VERY CLEAN.

“FAA tells contrails appear a wing-span distance from back” – That’s a ROUGH GUIDE. That distance REALLY depends on the VELOCITY of the plane and the TEMPERATURE and HUMIDITY OF THE AMBIENT AIR.

“you consider temp as well, not only humidity” – Do you think I don’t know that?

“The avg temp easily estimated even from ground temp measurement” – NO IT IS NOT. It is a ROUGH GUIDE through the TROPOSPHERE and NO GUIDE AT ALL AFTER THE TROPOPAUSE. ABOVE THE TROPOPAUSE THE TEMPERATURE IS NEVER WARMER THAN -40 DEG C. IT CAN BE -80 DEG C.

“ground temp of 30 C or more it is hardly likely that a plane flying low enough 2 be visible by the naked eye could produce a normal contrail” – IF IT’S ABOVE THE TROPOPAUSE THAT WON’T BE A TRUE STATEMENT, WILL IT?

“let alone a lasting plume” – In SATURATED AIR in the STRATOSPHERE there is NO WAY those ICE CRYSTALS WILL DISAPPEAR. Sunlight REFLECTS OFF them. That is WHY they are WHITE.

PENITENT (The Longest Day II)

Informative hub. I learned something new.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for responding, SweetiePie!

Nice summation; well done.

Hi Bard, good article. Yes, chemitrails are real but important is detect and differe them from the common contrails. Of course, the amount of metallic matter in them is a good way for understand they are not a simple condensation.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, randomlight and Fabrizio!

Darol (cd4sunshine)
Very nicely put Bard although the small part about reference to “persistant contrails vs. Chemtrails” really makes no difference as the USAF is gonna say no matter what ya wannna callem, they have always been there and ain’t hurtin’ no one,,,,,RIGHT

Bard of Ely
I am sure you are right, Darol, but I put that in because I know Rosalind thought it was important and I was attempting to give as full a picture as possible!

Many a conspiracy at the top they will never tell us, thanks for the insight and I did see the show you referenced on Discovery. Good job.

Bard of Ely
Thank you! It was good that Discovery did a program on it and even though it didn’t really go very far it nevertheless was one of the first reports by the media to give any coverage to the subject!

Madhavi Bhatia
Dear Bard, this is a rather horrifying subject. I’ve never actually heard of this before. The only chemical trails that i”ve heard of are the ones behind jet planes and of course spills of pesticides and insecticides that are sprayed by planes on the american and russian farms. Would you please write a more encyclopedic article on this on the copper wiki. My friends and i would be extremely grateful. The site is http://www.copperwiki.org Do check out some of the articles on sunscreen and eco fibres and please do send feedback when and if you get the time. thanks

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Mhadavi, and I agree it is a “horrifying subject” and this is perhaps why some people go into denial about it and say everything is OK and it’s just vapour trails. This puzzles other people who are alarmed by what they can see in the sky and what they have found out. And these trails and skies covered in the artificial clouds they make is a new occurrence. If you look at photos from around the world from over ten years back there are normal skies with blue skies and white clouds ot perhaps grey ones but never skies streaked with trails and skies covered in whitish haze from such trails. It just doesn’t add up! When I left the Uk in 2004 the sky wasn’t covered in trails but when I went back in 2007 it was! Something has changed! If you add in the admitted reports of military chaff then of course people will be concerned. Whatever is going on it has, as you can see here, spawned a whole new terminology and a movement of people. If I can find time I will submit an article for that site so thank you for the suggestion!

Bard, Great post! I have been talking to people about chemtrails quite a bit. It is about awareness and getting others informed. Most people have not even a second thought to look up and see the obvious “writing in the sky”. They are getting better and better in making them look like nice, natural whispy clouds to fool the sheeple. We notice how there will be criss crosses all over the sky one day and the next couple, none. I wonder if we will ever know the truth, what they are, why, and how do they detirme where they spray. There have been many postulations of the ominous reasons to spray of which include keeping us from evolving spiritually and acheiving enlightenment. I find it an interesting speculation as most things in this world, especially instituted by the government, do carry this side effect. Looking forward to learning and sharing more…Namaste, Dre

The How To Hub
A little timeline – I am 31 years old and have grown up in Australia. As a teenager I used to see the trails and think they were cool, you know like the air force jets with the coloured smoke displays…..my perspective as an adult is ….HORROR. What kind of world are we going to leave our future generations?

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Dre and Shaye! Dre, I have heard the points you have made but I thank you for posting them here for others to read. Shaye, I have a British friend who doesn’t accept that chemtrails are harmful but who thinks they are pretty. Personally I think, and a lot of people share this opinion, whether they are harmful or not, a sky with old-fashioned fluffy clouds that make ptictures in the sky for the mind’s eye is far superior aesthetically to a sky graffitied with lines and criss-crosses and finally a whitish haze of false cloud. And that is another part of it – weather forecasts nowadays often talk about haze and hazy conditions. We never used to have all this haze but had skies with clouds or without but not the mess that is so often there now. As Dre, has pointed out some days there is none of this and then the skies return to how they were meant to be.

Karen Ellis
We have them here in Oregon as well. It seems this is a world wide problem? On the days that chemtrails are being used, the planes criss-cross the sky and before you know it, instead of a beautiful blue-skyed day, you have complete overcast.

Bard of Ely
Yes, Karen, and the picture you describe is being reported over and over and over again and IF anyone manages to get any sort of response from anyone official they will say that what is being seen is normal and they are harmless contrails! How can it be harmless to cut out the light with such a cloud cover? Of course, it can’t! We never used to have skies like these! Thanks for posting!

The Bull
Bard, Wow…You have opened my eyes and mind at the same time… I live in the Northeast on the coast of the US…minutes from the Bush compound – Walkers point. The airspace is littered with intenational flights heading to Boston’s Logan and various NY hubs. We also maintain one of the largest US Airforce runways at Portsmouth, NH Pease Air base (only SAC refuling now). The resulting asthma, allergies, flu-like illness, respiratory and sinus problems, nose bleed, fatigue and depression, tinnitis, sight problems and inflammation of the eyes, dizziness, skin rashes, high blood pressure and pneumonia STATISTICS would be very interesting to calculate for this region. Do you have any ideas how I may find this information out statistically? The Bull

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting, Bull! I don’t personally know how you’d get such answers but I would thank that someone at the chemtrailtrackingusa forum would and what’s more the members would welcome such an idea – there is often the call there for ways of doing something that produces scientific data that can be given to the authorities and the debunkers so they can be asked to explain it! In other words we need to be able to talk their language back at them. Please consider joining and posting there if only for the one thread. The link is at the bottom of my article.

Very informative! I have been reading about contrails for years, but I have never heard them referred to as chemtrails before. I have noticed, though, that many of them do seem to have a lot more hang time lately. I live relatively close to a major airport, and have noticed that, on some days, there are upwards of 100 contrails in the sky, while on others there are only a few.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for your feedback, rmr! You have a mystery there whether they are harmless or not! Debunkers of the subject say the trails only persist in certain atmospheric conditions to which my question is why did such conditions not exist until in the last decade or so in which chemtrails have been reported? There are two airports on this island and plenty of planes in and out but mostly no chemtrails, however, when I went back to Cardiff in Wales last year the skies were covered in trails daily as was the airport there and it didn’t used to be like that!

Lou Purplefairy
Great hub Steve, and as you well know a subject close to my heart as an active campaigner for the awarenes of persistent contrails (chemtrails). We have lots and lots of PC (persistent contrails) here in Devon UK, and most ppl do not bat an eyelid at them, till I alert them to the possibility of what they actually are and how to tell them apart from real contrails. Most ppl are surprised that this subject is not covered by the media, and the intelligent ones are concerned by its conspicuous abscence, as it it not even ridiculed as a hoax in the media. I have witness chembows (as you know) sun halos and a myriad of PC’s in various formations. The freak weather we have had in economically poor areas in recent times is confirmation for me that some sort of NWO plan to eradicate “the useless eater population” is in full swing. I still do my research and blog on the matter.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for the feedback, Lou, and yes, I know you know what is going on!

You may believe that chemtrails are real, O Bard, but you are wrong. You are wrong, and you cannot prove you are right. Your “proof” is that “thousands of people say so”. These people that “say so” share many, and perhaps all, of the attributes of people that believe the Earth is flat, the Sun goes round the Earth, that God made Man “in his own image” (6,000 years ago!), and we CANNOT possibly have evolved from an ape-like creature five million years ago, that we are “imbued with a soul”, and if we “please God” we will “go to Heaven” after our body dies and rots. These people are DELUDED by their own ignorance and fear. They, on the whole, suffered through their educational period (personally I found it unpleasant even while top of the a-stream in a grammar school) and never learned to respect the opinions of people more able than they were to grasp essential scientific principles. Otherwise they would, of course, believe the word of atmospheric scientists who have for decades been telling these people that persistent contrails are a natural by-product of large-scale mass air transit.
The first queries as to why the sky turned white were made in the late fifties and early sixties, so the topic is NOT exactly a new one. Even before that collisions occurred between close-flying Flying Fortress bombers on 1000-bomber daylight bombing raids on Germany between 1943 and 1945 when they too turned the skies white with the exhausts from their 18-cylinder radial engines in particularly cold and humid conditions. If a million tons of kerosine are burned daily (yes!) in the stratosphere, which is thin and cold and easily humidified with relatively small amounts of water, then large areas of the sky are going to turn WHITE. This is the “white” of ice crystals – water! The rest is fanciful paranoia, with a small amount of LIES, DECEIT and FRAUD. For that, blame Carnicom and some ignorant and some shameless YouTubers. You should be ashamed of yourself. If you were better-educated, Bard, you would be. Your activity is harming society. I have amassed quite a lot of support literature at https://jazzroc.wordpress.com and invite your response…

Bard of Ely
Thanks for posting your opinions, Jazzroc, however, I am no further convinced by your arguments!

Perhaps after all you REALLY ought to read my wordpress blog. In it you will find confirmation of everything I have mentioned above, and directly-attributable quotes from specialist atmospheric scientists, graphs, details and photographs of almost all relevant material, specific proofs of chemtrailers’ fraudulent claims and blow-by-blow debunks of EVERY chemtrail claim. What more can one do, when confronted by a deluded and harmful person who is determined in his ignorance to do further harm? Well, advise you NOT to visit the US, I suppose. THERE they have the Patriot Act (which is not my idea of nice legislation!) What you are doing falls within the parameters of that act, and newly-trained and less sympathetic people there might well take it upon themselves to “educate” you, seeing as you are obviously determined never to do the job yourself.
Even in a British society noted for its tolerance of stupidity you might find that at some time in the near future (these are changing times!) your ignorant disregard of scientific principles, technocratic excellence and social decency will cause you to fall foul of the law. Don’t ever say I didn’t warn you…

Bard of Ely
JazzRoc, I have read your blog, and as it happens it is now probably being read by some freemasons – as I saw earlier that one has left a link to it and a recommendation in the Universal Freemason’s message board of which I am a member. I have told you that I don’t agree with you but you do not appear to be able to agree to disagree but become insulting and threatening in tone (warning me) and how you expect anyone to want to hear from you when you adopt these ways I really don’t know. However, as I have also told you, I don’t believe that this subject should all be a one-sided debate of chemtrail believers agreeing with chemtrailbelievers and on the other side the scientific debunkers all debunking – I would suggest that both sides have much to learn but they cannot do so if stuck viewpoints are held! You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it and I don’t simple as that. You don’t believe in God and I do!
I happen to agree with you that there are people who are ill and blaming chemtrails may not be ill from chemtrails but from other sources. I also agree with you that the crosses are in completely different levels of the sky and only look like crosses from down below. You see I don’t totally disagree with you but on the other hand I am convinced that chemtrails are very real and that weather modification is one definite use they are being put to, but I have told you that before.
You call people “uneducated” but what does that mean? It means that they don’t happen to agree with the official version of things perhaps – I certainly don’t! Scientists can and do lie and if you want an example, fluoride is one that springs to mind and mercury amalgam being another! There are many people active in the opposition to chemtrails who are educated to university standard eg Dr Stephen McKay whom I have mentioned in the article. I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people’s standards. Education though is often indoctrination and manipulation turning out people to carry on the system and brainwashed to believe what they are told not to think for themselves!

“it is now probably being read by some freemasons” – what a horrible thought! “Universal Freemason’s message board of which I am a member” – what, another horrible thought! “insulting and threatening in tone” – without a doubt you are a fool, for you are still ever-ready to accept baseless arguments and reject the remorseless logic of mine. I advised you not to visit the US, nor Britain after 2012. Personally I’ll admit to finding it difficult to be pleasant to someone like you who is practically as dangerous as a bomb-wielding terrorist with your spreading of lies and fear. I regard you now exactly the way I regard arms dealers. You are living in a safe spot and a safe era where your wickedness is going unpunished, but that won’t last for ever. “you expect anyone to want to hear from you” – I certainly won’t lie to gain plausibility like the people YOU believe. “both sides have much to learn” – Science and the truth of Science is not a democracy. Only ONE side is utterly ignorant in this case, and it’s YOURS. You have learnt nothing and are telling lies as a consequence. “You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it” – I put no FAITH in Science. That’s like putting FAITH in Mathematics. Is one FAITHFUL to LOGIC, or merely LOGICAL? “You don’t believe in God and I do!” – Which God is this? The jealous one? The one who made the Universe in six days six thousand years ago? “I am convinced that chemtrails are very real” – As real as your god, santa claus, and the tooth fairy. “weather modification is one definite use they are being put to” – Sure thing. The three million four hundred thousand tons of barium required to provide a mono-molecular coating over the whole Earth would only take eighty-five thousand tanker sorties using one and a half million tons of fuel. And, of course, next week, you’d have to repeat it, etc.
“You call people “uneducated” but what does that mean?” – It means believing “weather modification is one definite use they are being put to”. “Educated” is what I have just demonstrated to you: the ready use of mathematics and a true knowledge of the properties of the Earth to show you just what foolishness you speak. “I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people’s standards” – Hmm. And I’ve seen those standards fall year after year. By my standards you are DIM. If I were as dim as you are I’d keep my stupid mouth shut. It seems you are too dim to understand how dim you are. That IS a shame… “believe what they are told, not to think for themselves” – How ironic! Shine a light on that…ah, but your batteries are low, and your light bulb glows a faint orange… lacking scientific understanding, you cannot see how misled you have been, and how misleading and dangerous you now are.

Bard of Ely
It appears from all that that we are no longer friends seeing as you keep on insulting me and are so bigoted in your views. You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion and are another form of the thought police. Yes, I do believe people like David Icke and Clifford Carnicom whom you condemn. I have tried to present a balance of views here by letting you have your say and included them in the article above but it clearly isn’t working and maybe this is why all the chemtrail sites block you?
The Freemason who has posted your link found it here where you posted it and that is freedom of information as it should be! Seeing as you think so lowly of me now what do you make of Beck who has released a new song called Chemtrails? I applaud him for putting the subject in the mainstream world of pop music!

Eric Graudins
I’ve never heard of chemtrails. Thanks for writing this hub. JazzRoc – If your case is correct, you’ve considerably weakened it by the way you have chosen to argue your point here.

Bard of Ely
Hi Eric! Thanks for posting!

Eric, my case is correct. If I were arguing with someone who simply misunderstood contrails I might be more polite, but there is more to it than that. You would do well to leaf through https://jazzroc.wordpress.com
Bard: “we are no longer friends” – that’s as it should be. You won’t find arms dealers in my list of friends either. “you keep on insulting me” – I keep on describing you as an ignorant person who is way above your head, and causing harm within our society by insisting that people you do not know are deliberately poisoning the whole of our society, using baseless assertions and faulty reasoning. You’ve GOT to be stupid, because I cannot see you as THAT intelligent and malevolent. “so bigoted in your views” – I see you’ve decided I’m not “programmed” (that’s the usual one) so I must be simply bigoted. It seems to me that you consider the understanding of science to be a form of bigotry. Well, we live in a scientific and technological world, and here we are using that very technology to conduct this argument. You are arguing with a man who has tested jet engines in their test beds, helped in the construction of the supersonic wind tunnel used to test the Concord’s engines, helped in the construction of the nuclear decanning plant in Windscale, helped in the construction of the world’s first ethernet network, and the world’s first modern electric city car. (And many other things, but that’s by-the-by). I know exactly how gas turbines work and exactly how their exhausts work in the stratosphere, and exactly how the stratosphere functions from my personal work experience. This isn’t a “view”. I can BUILD these things.
You turn up with your “fear of science”, read a whole bunch of foolish and baseless and totally inaccurate assumptions in a scientific field you don’t understand at all, and accuse INNOCENTS of attempted GENOCIDE. Who is the BIGOT here?
“You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion” – This IS “freedom of thought and opinion”. How can your statement be correct? “are another form of the thought police” – Really! “I have tried to present a balance of views” – We aren’t talking about a “balance of views”. Science is not a “balance of views”. You’re either CORRECT or WRONG. “it clearly isn’t working” – It’s working fine from my perspective. You are doing EVIL and I’m trying to prevent you, albeit unsuccessfully so far. I’m trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.
I’m also showing others that this ludicrous topic is opposed by scientists and other educated people. It is we who are doing things in this society, we who provide the wealth and power for travel and information systems (like this one) to the benefit of everyone. We have been able to do this by years of poorly-paid study, experiment and practice. We are professionals and deserve respect for our abilities and achievements – not this ignorant and shocking diatribe to which we are subjected.
In 1981, as our small team of electronics engineers clustered around an oscilloscope in a Wood Green laboratory which was demonstrating for the first time in the world that it was possible to send information down a wire at a rate of a hundred megabits per second (and we knew we were witnessing the start of a world revolution in information), nothing would have led me to believe that twenty-seven years later I would find myself using this fabulous system to conduct arguments about contrails with dumbed-down and deluded pseudo-scientists. How IRONIC!

Bard of Ely
“I’m trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.” – You are trying to tell me what to do and how to think and no one has the right to do that to anyone else! Do you send your insulting opinions to all the well known authors/speakers who believe and talk about chemtrails or do you only post your one-sided opinion and rudeness on the sites of people like me and those who post chemtrail videos? And if you feel that America and the UK would find my opinions illegal, then if you are right then it only goes to show that these countries are fascist non-democratic police states, which many believe anyway.
When we first met I thought we could get on well but clearly I was wrong. I do not like arguments and this is what this is. We had a big falling out before in which I deleted you at Myspace and swore and you have detailed that in your blog. I am not going to react with anger that way this time but as you admit here we are no longer friends I will delete you at Myspace. If Kingfisher is ever a money-making success I would see that you got your share. It seems that is all we share. I am not surprised that people at YouTube and chemtrail sites complain about you if this is an example of how you act. It is not a debate about a subject but a rude verbal assault by you who will not tolerate others having their beliefs or opinions or to post these in public

Eric Graudins
How timely. Tim Flannery, one of Australia’s top scientists has proposed that Global Warning could be slowed by injecting sulphur into the top levels of the atmosphere. He says that it could be put there by mixing it with jet fuel. This would be called “Global Dimming”.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for the link, Eric! Yes, I saw the news on this proposed insanity at Alex Jones’ site.

Debbie Peace love
Hi Bard Are you sure that Jazzroc isn’t a fox news presenter because he sure does sound like one to me. When they lose their arguments they resort to petty playgrond name calling and insults. Because they have lost the debate and cannot bring an intelligent debate to the table.
As you are aware I take a keen interest in chemtrails. Anyone who tells me they do not exist had better open their eyes and look up to the sky! You would have to be blind not to see them. Over here in the UK they make pretty pictures of chemtrails. We get the noughts and crosses obviously pilots having a game of tic tac toe. Well they have to dump whatever their dumping so they may of well have some fun. We get circles, loads of pretty pictures over here. Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go! Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings! Planes usually advertise who they are up in the skies.
Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems? Considering less people smoke. Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too. Also this may have something to do with the honeybee’s demise too.
Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials. If they were ordinary contrails I am sure we would have had something on the media by now trying to debunk the “Chemtrail Theorists” However, their silence is deafening. Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain! Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many “Coincidences” concerning chemtrails.
Why is jazzroc so angry? If he disagrees with you on chemtrails then that is his prerogative. However, to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear. I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing. Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!
IF you don’t want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view. When someone throws nasty insults and name calling. Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.

Bard of Ely
Debbie, thank you very much for posting and your support on this! To be fair to Jazzroc, though he doesn’t extend much fairness to me, he does provide a lot of info in his blog, which he has provided the link for and is worth reading, however, it doesn’t satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject, as I have already pointed out. It is a shame that it appears that Jazzroc has got himself excluded from sites where he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails and reports of daily coverage of their skies like get reported at chemtrailtrackingusa group for example. However, it seems that he doesn’t want to listen to what others say but just believes he is right so they must be wrong and then he wishes to impose his views on them, which I have called a bigoted approach. When they fail to accept what he says he does what he has done to me – he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting.
I think the point you raise on the media silence is a very valid one. Jazzroc would probably say the media cannot report on something that doesn’t exist but I would say the media has reported in great detail on things that don’t exist such as the weapons of mass destruction that were never found and other government lies. And if there is nothing to fear from the chemtrails then why doesn’t the media get someone who can explain it to do so? Why doesn’t Jazzroc volunteer instead of carrying on his barrage of insults and debunking posts? I would have thought the media could call upon scientific ‘experts’ to explain the matter but they do not do so! Maybe Beck’s song Chemtrails will bring the subject into the public mainstream arena where it belongs. According to Wikipedia, his song has been played on BBC R1, which maybe the first time the BBC has used the word chemtrails. I searched their site long ago and it isn’t there, although contrails are and defined as harmless

Debbie Peace Love: “Are you sure that Jazzroc isn’t a fox news presenter” – I’m a retired engineer living fifteen miles away from the Bard in Tenerife. Are you sure you aren’t being abusive here? “open their eyes and look up to the sky” – and you’ll see contrails. If you look at the sky you’ll see the Sun go round the Earth. Now, DOES the Sun go round the Earth? “Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go!” – You can tell all that from seven miles beneath? You should get a job in Air Traffic Control. They need you! “Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings” – Your first unwittingly ignorant question. It’s a physical phenomenon called “blue light scattering”. Educate yourself. Try WIKI. “Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems considering less people smoke?” – Because there has been a huge increase in arable farming, with new crops with new pollens, industry is still increasing using exotic materials with dangerous dusts when cutting and grinding without adequate air filtration, because urban photochemical smogs are still increasing, and finally because power stations are burning less safe materials as the world’s oil supplies dwindle. The Western diet of over-processed foods with too much meat and too little fruit, coupled with high-stress levels and poor exercise regimens and contaminated water supplies doesn’t help at all. Overall, this is an already complex intermix of factors by itself, requiring a massive statistical effort to sort out – before you come along with IMAGINARY ills. “Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too?” – Look it up in WIKI. In Science as a whole, FACTS are established using DUPLICATION of results and PEER REVIEW of research. This HASN’T HAPPENED WITH MORGELLONS’ CLAIMS. Ergo – it’s NOT Science and NOT TRUE. “Also this may have something to do with the honeybee’s demise too.” – May it? See above. You must remember that scientists get famous for discovering things, so the pressures are there to make these discoveries. See above. “Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials?” – They have tried it on, burnt their fingers, and won’t do it again! “Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!” – Or perhaps, the humid air that creates the contrails eventually causes rain? “Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many “Coincidences” concerning chemtrails.” – There are too many “coincidences” in the minds of those that are deluded!
“Why is jazzroc so angry?” – I should cheer when ignorant “Chicken Littles” accuse innocent people of attempted mass murder, should I? “to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear.” – Of course I have something to fear! STUPIDITY is a DANGEROUS thing in a technological world! “I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing.” – I doubt whether you could appreciate proof if you met it. You need a modicum of scientific understanding which you’ve already demonstrated you don’t have. However, there’s always WIKI and my blog “Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!” – A bit more than that, dear. I’m a scientist. And an artist. And a musician. “IF you don’t want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view.” – The sun – does it ACTUALLY go round the earth? “When someone throws nasty insults and name calling.” – They need to be STOPPED! Your hypocrisy is showing! Or hadn’t you noticed that CHEMTRAILS insult hard-working, decent professional people (and anyone else who has a modicum of commonsense)? “Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.” – All that glitters is not gold. You may read, but you patently do not understand. A fool is what YOU are.
Bard: “it doesn’t satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject” – You demand to be spoon-fed scientific understanding, but it doesn’t come that way. You must study for years for such understanding to arrive. If you DO NOT HAVE this understanding, you will NEVER be satisfied. In the interim, perhaps you could moderate your pseudo-scientific assertions….
“he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails – it seems that he doesn’t want to listen to what others say” – I thought it was I that was the insulting person. I have read what people have said, and it is obvious that there is no direct link. We ALL breathe in a mass of dusts, pollens, viruses and bacteria with every breath we take. Our bodies have a tolerance for doing this which has been EARNED by the deaths of countless millions of our predecessors over four billion years.
“I have called a bigoted approach” – The correct approach to YOUR “chemtrail” bigotry.
“he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting” – How is it that you continually forget the nature of your claim? Why can’t you see that you ARE what you claim ME to be?
“why doesn’t the media get someone who can explain it to do so?” – Because it is too difficult and boring a job for them (they would LOSE ratings)!
“the media could call upon scientific ‘experts’ to explain the matter” – I am such an expert. How successful am I?
“contrails are defined as harmless” – And of course they are. It is YOUR BEHAVIOUR that is harmful.

Bard of Ely
Jazzroc, I will let Debbie reply to you here if she so wishes. I would ask you this: if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects? Please see: http://www.setiai.com/archives/000064.html So whether its water vapor converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same – less light gets through. This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!

Really, Bard, I wonder what happens when you address yourself to read something! I could answer your question from my internal understanding, but just in case there was a built-in trick I addressed myself to the text in question, and found it answered your question completely!
“if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut(ting) out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects?” NO. Like all navigating animals on Earth, bees are NOT reliant on the visible Sun for navigation. Any such creatures that were SOLELY reliant upon the Sun would have been rendered extinct by the first large volcanic outburst or cometary impact than obscured the Sun for a sufficiently large period. And there been quite a few of these over the preceding 500,000,000 years. Bees sense the Sun, polarized light, landscape features, magnetic fields, and use two techniques of distance measurement (the latter one “optical flow” is new to me, but entirely unsurprising). What follows is a direct quote from the article: “All of these senses are redundant. That is to say, remove any one of them and the bee will probably still be able to navigate without problems. When the sun is obscured by clouds or trees, but patches of blue sky are still visible, the honey bee is able to use polarized light as a backup navigation system. The light coming directly from the sun is unpolarised. Some of this sunlight, however, is scattered by air molecules and a pattern of polarized light is set up in the sky. This pattern consists of a roughly circular set of gradients centered around the sun. The polarization is at its most intense at a 90′ angle from the sun. By detecting the polarization angle bees are able to infer the location of the sun. Exactly how they manage to do this is still unknown.”
Did you actually READ this? It ANSWERS the question you put to me! Do you know what “redundant” means in this context?
“So whether it’s water vapour converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same – less light gets through.” – Here you once again demonstrate your scientific ignorance. “Toxic particles” cannot flow through the gas-turbine injectors. Injectors are hardened steel precision-ground tubes with very small internal diameters. Flow-control valves also clog if fine solids pass through them. In fact, they must both be protected by a high-capacity low-micron filter, which, of course, would stop solids. DUSTS PUT OUT ENGINES. Passenger aircraft are built down to a price by civilian businesses. Their wings contain spars, tanks and control equipment. They are built to very tight tolerances and riveted or glued down firmly. They do not have “empty spaces” and “extra pumps and nozzles” built into them for CHEMICAL ATTACK.
“Less light gets through” – It has been demonstrated by two different scientists using two different techniques in two different parts of the Earth that incident sunlight falling on the earth has been reduced by at least 15% over the last forty years. It is attributed to the industrial revolution, not just in the west, but in the middle and far east – it’s the consequence of COMBUSTION IN GENERAL. It is known that the contribution of air travel is 3% of this.
“This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!” – The Sun has formed halos in the Earth’s stratosphere for four-and-a half billion years. The ice crystals that form such a halo are PURE. Any more than the single nucleating molecule at its centre (which every water droplet or ice crystal needs to form at all) and crystal formation is interfered with, and the halo effect disappears also.
You should know this, Steve, as we FREQUENTLY see halo effects round both Sun and Moon here, but NEVER when the KALIMA dust is in the sky. Hadn’t you noticed?

Bard of Ely
Yes, I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool then this could be what has messed them up and I note that they are OK here where we do not get many trails or blanket coverage with artificial cloud. Back in the UK where I went I saw trails and white cloud covering large areas made by these trails and the bees have nearly vanished so I joined the dots.
You make an excellent point about the halos and I know that they are dependent on water vapor so dust (or particles) should not produce this effect. I have to admit what you say makes sense to me on that.
If solid particles cannot go through the engines, which makes sense to me too, how did Teller’s sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulfur? To my knowledge both aluminum (Teller) and sulfur (Flannery) are solids.
I assume that these substances would be sprayed from tanks with nozzles etc that you say are not in passenger planes but whilst that may well be the case, what about military planes? Surely they can have these adaptations?

“I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool” – and there’s your paradox – “redundant” means “if an element is removed, the function of the remainder persists”.
“blanket coverage with artificial cloud” – All these clouds are cirrus. In supersaturated air the ice crystals of cirrus clouds, whether natural or man-made contrails, will gain weight and fall until they become diffuse clouds of water droplets (stratus) or if they reach the ground – fog. This fog, whatever its origination, is practically pure water. The impurities (and we’re talking fractions of a percent here) will be soot (from a gas turbine) or aluminum silicate (from the land) or methyl sulfide (from the sea). NONE of these will poison bees. The most likely killer of bees is a virus. The second most likely killer is a bacterium. The third most likely is a fungus. The fourth most likely is another strain of bees. Use your commonsense. Cities and industrial landscapes occupy about 2% of the Earth’s surface area – there may be cumulative effects for which they share a worldwide responsibility, like increasing proportions of carbon and sulfur dioxides in the air, but aircraft have only a 3% share in this. It is more likely that Nature itself is killing the bees.
It is very unfortunate (but obviously true) that these bee enemies are also arranged in the order of being the most difficult to discover. You have to remember (if you ever knew) that due to the incredible scales involved, finding a specific lethal bacterium on a bee might be like finding a single unknown person in a city, and that finding a single lethal virus on a bee (it might be INSIDE a bacterium!) might be like finding a single unique person on Earth – namely VERY much harder than finding a needle in a haystack – in fact well-nigh impossible.
“I joined the dots” – but only the dots you could see…”how did Teller’s sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulfur” – Teller’s proposal was never answered. Flannery’s was to use rockets, but this engineer can tell you now that the whole proposal was flaky, and very much more likely to do harm than good. After all, what is acid rain? (Er – sulfur dioxide meets water – makes sulfuric acid!) How good is THAT for trees? “To my knowledge both aluminum (Teller) and sulphur (Flannery) are solids” – It isn’t impossible to turn both into organic liquids. Sulfur is fairly easy, aluminum difficult and expensive. (Barium is much more difficult and is so dense and reactive that specially-lined tanks and mechanical stirrers would be required!)
However on the scale of the Earth you can forget it. I’ve told you already that a single shot of barium for the Earth would require 3.4 million tons. That’s for a single pass… Can you envisage the US (and who else could it be?) shelling up for 85,000 KC105 tanker flights on a weekly basis, when its economy is about to go down the tubes? The whole idea is ridiculous. The surface area of the Earth is fifty times larger than the United States.
“what about military planes?” – It’s your best argument, but doesn’t pan out when you consider the logistics. See above.
You say you have read my blog. I can tell you’re not telling me the truth, for this is thoroughly answered there, and here I’m forced to repeat myself.
As I have said before, Steve, you cannot defeat me using scientific argument, because I know the science involved. If you really get down to basics (and of course you can’t!) I would fight you all the way and still end up the winner.
Your side knows this and has found other ways to defeat me – by blocking, by corruption, by fraud, by lying. But never by science. Blocking and corruption are beyond my powers to overcome, but occasionally I have defeated fraud. And lies are easy to deal with.
What I would like for you to do (apart from stopping making all these false assertions!) is come up with questions which really challenge me, and not questions which any book on atmospheric physics or topical science programme can answer.
And here is one for you. In my blog there is a link to a fascinating British invention which provides a safe, easy, cheap and reversible method of controlling and reducing Global Warming. What is it?

Bard of Ely
Tony, I have had a big realisation and not sure how I missed this apart from by association – I saw trails and white hazy skies and sun halos and my logic said the halos were caused by what was in the trails. However, because I was believing the trails were bad I was assuming the halos had to be too and had read how they are a sign in the Hopi system of the end of this system which added to my belief they are bad. But in doing this I was failing to see something I know – that halos form when there is water vapour, not when there is dust or particles. Therefore, looking at this now it means that the white trails and white artificial cloud cover would appear to be, as you and other non CT-believers have said, water vapour turning to ice crystals! This means that “chembows” would also be made of water. This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!

fant 169

Crumbs, Steve. Answers like this REALLY pull the rug out from under my feet! I am so accustomed to dogged argument that I don’t really know now what to say. 🙂 Except, of course, that there is much more to this than what we have covered so far, and even if “chemtrails” don’t exist, then for sure most ills suffered by both Man and Nature are STILL down to Man!
My point all the way through my “campaign” against “chemtrails” is that WHILE “chemtrails” are the focus of attention, the REAL problems are NOT ADDRESSED.

Namely, people ARE suffering from lung and skin allergic reactions, and possibly dying. These people will be the young, the old, the poor, and people who have already been weakened by some other disease. Not having “media share”, they can slip away without causing a stir or attracting attention. Awful. And I’m fairly sure that’s happening, not from any particular facts I possess (except perhaps my own intense allergy to Britain’s summer months!), but from a half-century of experience in the ways of the world.
I have watched the quality of Britain’s air, water, and food drop decade by decade. And the quality of life! The fuddy-duddy “Empah” values, stiff-upper-lip, reserve, and artificial politeness PRESERVED a life quality we have LOST. Lack of stress! Peace!
I’m also concerned about CARS. In the sixties the Conservative transport minister Dr. Beeching removed half our rail network. This rail network was a web of railway that reached to every town and virtually every village in the country. It was a fabulous real estate asset because it was JOINED UP, and could hence be converted – perhaps into a clean and efficient tramway, or a road, or a canal, or an information highway. Or maybe left as part of a modern automatic railway. Well, once broken up and flogged off as packets of land no longer joined up, that which cost the Victorians SO much trouble was cast to the wind…
In the seventies there was the Oil Crisis, when the price of oil tripled overnight. “Now” I thought “there is bound to be a drive towards light and efficient people movers!” What did we build? 4 by 4’s, juggernauts as big and heavy as the monsters built in the US during the fifties! The SUPERMARKET “juggernauts” drove across our valleys in the eighties, removing trees and hedges and small-holdings in their factory-farming “techno-park” drive to produce consistently-sized, brightly-coloured, poisoned, tasteless “vegetable” (or “animal”) pap, leaving in their wake air filled with herbicides, pesticides, and pollens, and sordid concentration camps of bird and animal suffering. And then the cars. Without a decent railway or bus system or information system we were forced into cars. (Not you, Steve, I know.) Thousands of cars. MILLIONS of cars. On occasion the M25 was a stationary six-lane CAR PARK (with all engines running) for a HUNDRED MILES. What in God’s Name sort of LUNACY is THAT? Cars, poisoned air, poisoned water, denatured food, the mass-torture of birds and animals. Rudeness in public. Temporary and demeaning employment. Fraud in Banking and Insurance. Mortgage and Equity crises. Lying politicians. Foreign war. STRESS… BRITAIN!
Chemtrails are simply (apart from their nonexistence) SURPLUS TO REQUIREMENT.
The anti-GW invention is the salt-spray trimaran of Dr. Stephen Salter. Apart from turning the skies of the southern Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans somewhat leaden (and reducing the violence of storms in the area, and providing refuge for shipwrecked sailors) these devices do no harm whatsoever. Only five hundred of them are needed, and they can be switched off overnight if that were necessary.

Bard of Ely
Tony, please see the update I have added. I can admit I was wrong about a lot of it and felt I should make a public statement here explaining my reasoning. Thank you, because in the course of this I have understood how I was ignoring facts or overriding them due to my belief in the basic chemtrail conspiracy and my mistrust in scientists and official authorities. I would think that has happened with many of the other people who haven’t given you a chance or really read all you have had to say!

“This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!” – Steve, that was a gracious (and almost unique!) apology which temporarily took my breath away. It is unusual for a “chemtrail” adherent to back down over anything. The only previous instance I can recall was – you – about a year ago. Yet, after that, you soon got into full swing again. So may we look at your phrase “a lot that I have been believing” and pick it apart a little? Can you now be believing that yes, there ARE poisons being dispensed, but they DON’T make white lines in the sky? Perhaps you now believe that no, they CAN’T be passenger planes, but they CAN be military KC105 tankers which are NOT laying visible trails? Invisible trails of WHAT might these be? Do you know how many KC105s there are – compared with the number required to carry out Edward Teller’s proposal? (ET – the original “Strangelove”!) NOT ENOUGH. Not enough tankers, not enough fuel, not enough barium.
Did you notice the satellite image of the whole of the North Atlantic Ocean in my blog that showed contrails as a grid of white lines concentrated ONLY over the middle of the ocean (where there was a huge north-south cold front!) with virtually no contrails over the land anywhere? If they were “spraying”, WHY would that occur? Did you see the “chemtrailer” version of a (on-off) “gap” in a contrail that was patently photoshopped into existence? Did you see the Sciechimiche video claiming to be the inside of a “spraying” aircraft which was “fabricated” from a photo of the interior of the Boeing 777 Long Range Prototype, which at the time contained interconnected barrels of water (in place of the seating) for directly testing the consequences of varying its centre of gravity?
I hope you COMPLETELY understand that there is NOT A SINGLE WORD OF TRUTH in ANY PART of the “chemtrail conspiracy”, and that some of the “claimants” are NOT DELUDED but actively FRAUDULENT. And “Geo-engineering” is not necessarily a dirty word…
Steve, I looked at your stop press, and it warmed my heart to see it. But it is an afterword in your Hub entitled “Are Chemtrails Real, and Contrails a Con?”, so I suppose the end results of this episode may still be deleterious, and a distraction from solving our true difficulties. I hope you will soon return to your laudable activities in the fields and woods of permaculture, wildlife, wild foods, conservation and Nature.

Bard of Ely
I will have a look at that video now! I do not claim to know how many planes the miltary has or where they hold them. I have seen the “inside a tanker” video you refer to and am well aware of the reality of that episode having been caught up in it personally online. I read a lot of the conspiracy authors and watch their lectures and the majority have included chemtrails as a reality and I find it hard to believe they are all knowingly lying, especially when I know that much of the other material covered is true. So I have to conclude they blind themselves as I have done. I have taken down my STOP CHEMTRAILS banners at Myspace because they show trails which you have convinced me are water vapour and until anyone can prove anything to the contrary I am as of now not promoting CTs as a reality. In fact when I have the time I will do a rewrite of what I have posted above here probably and stick it on Myspace. JazzRoc was he right? Yes, but nobody wanted to know!
I would much prefer to stick to things I do know about such as nature but in this case I got involved in it by seeing skies that are not as they used to be, which you have convinced me is caused by far more water being in them, and I assume this was the case when this happened before as you have detailed regarding past occurrences of persistent contrails.

I notice that you’ll find on the YouTube co-display page an article by Alex Jones concerning the Sun’s role in Global Warming, where he suggests this coming Solar Cycle will show the Sun’s brightness increasing by 50%. In the 4.6 billion years (and 200 million solar cycles) since the Sun and its solar system formed, the Sun has increased its brightness by (I think) 27%. This means that the mean brightness increase of the Sun per cycle is 0.000000135%. The Sun is not yet middle-aged in terms of its own life, and is expected to burn for another 10 billion years before it dies. It is proceeding smoothly, and showing just its usual behaviour – a tiny increase every cycle. It strains credibility to believe that THIS Solar cycle brightness increase is going to be 370 BILLION times greater…
So how can Alex Jones say this? Perhaps he isn’t a scientist, but I’ve just sat down with a calculator and rattled out the figures – and you can do it too. What sort of lunacy is this? Why does it happen these days? Where is the ACTION here? What’s the REAL agenda?

Bard of Ely
I saw that video. Alex says all sorts – a lot of it right and some of it wrong and as you say he is not a scientist which he admits! He is a good showman and a very successful alternative broadcaster and many people say all sorts of things about him good and bad. I have listened to him a lot over the years but not so much in recent months although I subscribe to his blog at Myspace, and I find myself knowing AJ supporters and others who are against him.
To answer your question why this is happening – there is the conspiracy theory that would tell you it is all part of the Illuminati Great Work of Ages plan and has been designed to be like this or maybe it’s just because a vast number of people want answers and are fed up with lies from politicians, governments, world leaders, religions, scientists, global manufacturers, and the media. Alex is one of many who provide answers so he has a ready audience. People have distrust in traditional leaders and ‘experts’ and want new ones – it’s been going this way for a long time and I would personally say a lot started in the sixties when people began looking for alternative ways and wanted to change the system. It’s when I got involved.

fant 230

first off i would like to say i am new to this subject and at present not swayed either way, but i have read both sides to this argument and the continuing argument between bard and jazzroc, jazzroc by your standards i am extremely uneducated, but reading the posts here by both you and bard i am dissapointed in the way in which such an educated person argues their point, firstly it seems you pick on a sentence and then discredit it as much as possible by insulting everything it implies, it’s like reading a list of insults rather than a fair and equal argument, and no doubt you will do the same to this comment picking up on bad spelling, grammar and such saying how uneducated i am, but i am and i can admit this, also you claim to be a scientist yet your views are firmly set with no room for change, does science not show us now that the impossible is possible? does history not show us that science get’s it wrong time and time again? you are everything that is wrong with science today! science is an ever-changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression, and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe unfairly, but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change, for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything! and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in our own delusions.

Bard of Ely
Thanks for your thought, unknown! Perhaps JazzRoc will reply to your points?

“does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?” NO. The impossible has been shown forever to be, and to have been, impossible. The Universe is consistent to the laws we have uncovered to as far as we can see, which is to a distance of thirteen and a half billion light years. There are NO other rules operating other than the ones we have uncovered – other than the rules we HAVEN’T uncovered!
“does history not show us that science gets it wrong time and time again?” YES. And THEN it gets it RIGHT. Consider how you and your mother avoided death when you were born, and all the other aspects of your material existence which “wrong” science has got “right”, and contrived to make your life OTHER than “nasty, brutish, and short”! Consider the means by which you argue here. Consider that once I worked in a team to develop this means.
“you are everything that is wrong with science today!” Well, thanks. Had I known this, perhaps I would have have NOT designed the world’s first ethernet transceiver. Perhaps PEOPLE are what’s wrong with science. Perhaps you are a victim (already) of a dumbing-down process I saw begun in the early seventies. Perhaps you are also a victim of fiscal policy (namely the total surrender of “democratic” western governments to private banking interests). But you are NO victim of mine! I have been in opposition to every wicked and deleterious policy change I’ve seen occur since I’ve ever been able to vote. That’s almost EVERY CHANGE THAT HAS BEEN MADE. I opposed entry into the Common Market (Britain should be strong and self-sufficient and independent), I opposed the Conservative Selsdon Committee (that dumbed YOU down!), I opposed the destruction of the Engineering, Shipbuilding, Mining and Machine Tool Industries, I opposed the Falklands War, I opposed the destruction of the Coal Mines, I opposed the idea that Britain could be a Fiscal Service for the World (ridiculous!), I opposed the rapid exploitation of North Sea Gas (further destroying the mining industry), I opposed the feeding of meat to cows, I opposed the idea that GM pollinating plants merely needed a 20-yard separation (!), and I opposed entry into the Iraqi war. Then I LEFT THE COUNTRY.

I had become VERY FED UP of being ROBBED (in ALL uses of that term) CONTINUALLY over a forty-year period. Even now I am close to destitute, as employment is hard to find for a sixty-four-year-old Welshman without money or transport in a Spanish fishing resort village. But it is warm here, and I am close to my grandson, and my needs are few. I shall soon create a solar home and permaculture food garden and achieve true self-sufficiency.
“science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression” Can’t disagree with you here! Of course, it is necessary to point out that to be “open-minded” requires that one is EDUCATED in the first place. Otherwise one merely “opens” an EMPTY mind…
“and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly” Completely.
“but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change” Well, I’m a qualified engineer and industrial designer and practise those disciplines. Now I compose music. The idea of a “different point of view” is QUITE POPULAR with engineers, designers, musicians! It helps CREATE NEW THINGS.
“for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything!” Science isn’t a democratic debate. There is ONLY a CORRECT side and an INCORRECT side. Life hasn’t taught you ANYTHING, it seems…
“and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in our own delusions” No, you HOLD ONE. I’d like to point out that if I’m arguing with an American it really makes no difference – the same evil and wicked policies are maintained by both Britain and the States. If the cap fits…

ok, well you have indeed made some valid points against what i have said to you, and claiming that you are everything wrong with science today was unfair and i apologize for that comment, but to say i have been dumbed down is also a bit much, and when i talk of the impossible being possible one reference comes to mind and that is of quantum physics, but i will say thankyou for your reply and your comments and will discuss this more in due course. oh and just to clear that last part up,i am definatly not an american,i would like to say that my original comment was posted mainly for the way in which you come across, it is a little offensive in all honesty, and it bugged me, in reality i was not having ago at your abilities as a human being but more for the way that you put your point across, and somewhere in there i shall admit that i got a litte lost and sidetracked from the point i was getting at.

I accept your apology. Quantum physics does at first seem as though the impossible may be possible, but there is a fantastic SCALE effect at work here. The scale of quantum physics is so small and local (and quick!) that the distances involved in organic molecules eg., from ONE peptide bond to the NEXT in a DNA molecule, become equivalent to the distances between stars. All the “magic” is taking place in a “storm” (which is not even of microscopic size!) which on the whole averages out as – “non-magic” – nothing. I am a Star Trek fan, and believe that “beam me up Scotty” (etc.) has tended to convince non-scientists that these types of events may some day be within the reach of scientists. These programmes are FANTASIES. Their “science” (in almost all cases!) is poor. One isn’t looking at a possible future – at all. It is quite wrong to mix up a blend of fear of the US govt with fanciful ideas with radio stations (HAARP), barium stearate powders (“chemtrails”), “nanotechnology”, “mindcontrol”, aliens, and what-have-you, instead of finding the real solutions to lung and skin diseases. The solutions will be found using Science, not Fantasy. In the meanwhile “chemtrails” are a harmful distraction, an additional problem.

hey i’m from new zealand and they spray us here too. i know that they are definitely spraying something because you can’t turn a contrail on and off. we also see up to 4 planes spraying at once, they do a run across the city then turn around and spray again. i notice on days when they spray that all my flatmates seem to be more agitated and depressed. it seems to affect the wind. because our city usually is really windy and gets SE and N prevailing winds. but over the last 3 years the winds are coming from weird directions and it is hardly ever windy anymorei have also seen the rainbows in the fake clouds too i heard that there is a secret haarp installation here too

Bard of Ely
Steve, please have a look at contrailscience and JazzRoc’s blogs – the links are here to provide info. But basically you just seeing ice crystals forming the trails and fake cloud. They do not turn them on or off but are moving from one layer of the sky to another and if there is no water vapor present to crystallise as ice then you see no trail and it looks as if it’s turned off.
The rainbow effects are caused again by ice crystals – there are no forms of dust or particles metallic or otherwise that will cause this. It is likely that people are depressed and agitated by seeing the trails because if what they have heard about them as a danger and because it is something they have not seen until recently. However, there is nothing to fear apart from fear itself and the reason we see all these trails is because the sky has far more water in it and there are far far more planes up there

I am emailing you to inform you of a strike that is being organized on July 4th 2008 against the New World Order and the spraying of chemicals in our skies. I am hoping to reach as far as I can with the message that there are good people out there who really want to change things. We all need to support each other and create a the kind of world it should be. Please spread the word of change and promote this website after all this affects us all. Please visit www.freewebs.com/changetheworldforever for more info. We need to change what is happening to our world and to our skies, for the sake of ourselves and for generations to come.

H2O is a greenhouse gas and that cannot combat global warming. I didn’t read jazzroc’s comments and can’t help wonder if he flies the planes. Pollution does block sunlight from traveling deep into earth but I think there are better ways than pollution to stop global warming WTF!

Bard of Ely
I’m not sure who said water was combatting global warming so don’t really understand the point you are making but I am sure there are far too many planes seeing as they are causing the problem we are seeing and whilst I no longer believe that the trails and artifical clouds are toxic it is still not right at all to have all these tons of ice crystals blotting out the blue skies and sunlight! And many places could desperately use the water down here! Thanks for your feedback, MD!

The point I was making is frost and mist are h2o, not chemtrails. I am not saying that I believe in one side or the other on this, if you read the blog on myspace I was talking about, it was more detailed. I do think the theory falls in line with other theories that becoming more factual. At least, it is more believable than reptilian theories!

Bard of Ely
Thanks for explaining! Well, the strange thing is I am no longer a chemtrail believer after several years but I am a reptilian believer, although not so sure about the shapeshifting! I have actually just written over 3,000 words on why I believed in chemtrails and why I no longer do for another project. There was logical thought gone into both my belief and how I finally lost that belief but the most interesting part of it all for me was that when I was a chemtrail-believer I was blocking out seeing some things, which I knew. This was not logical thought but the control over my analytical mind by the belief system I had.

I am going to have to read your conversation with jazzroc when I have more time. I have some chemistry knowledge and would be happy to look at this as logically as possible.

Bard of Ely
MD, thanks for what you posted but for the video it is just like all the others of which I have seen hundreds. They all are claiming that the trails are chemtrails and I no longer accept that so there is nothing to fear from them for myself or others who do not believe. As for finding cures for the illnesses said to be caused by chemtrails this is an impossibility if the chemtrails do not exist and are merely ice which simply messes the sky up. The illnesses and symptoms are caused by many other things and obviously need to be cured but personally I see no point blaming the trails and I no longer do so.
BTW as an example, I have had chronic sinus problems that I believed to be caused by chemtrails. I no longer believe this and have concluded that the problem is caused by my deviated septum, which two doctors said was the reason. I have found a cure – salt water dropped down my nasal passages.

No big deal about the deleted posts, I didn’t feel comfortable putting the article up there. i would’ve sent a link but the profile I found it on is set to private so I do not think I could send a link. It was a lot longer of a article but I am not intent on changing your mind. The fascinating part I thought, was the evolving DNA. I started classes this week so I am becoming too busy for this subject. If I come across any proof you haven’t heard of I will send you a myspace message with a link. Lots of things can cause asthma and sinus problems, nearby trains using diesel, car pollution, airports, pollen. See you on another topic friend!

Bard of Ely
Yes, lots of things present in the modern world can and do produce symptoms like sinus problems and asthma that get blamed on chemtrails! Yes, there are all manner of theories about DNA – depends who you agree with really! Michael Tsarion says we all have alien DNA mixed with human and that is the root cause of evil in the world. It’s a good explanation. Michael doesn’t think there are any saviours for the world condition but ourselves and I am inclined to agree with him on both counts. This is our nightmare and we have to deal with it!

hey. i hear planes at the same time every morning. I live in gwealod y garth in cardiff. we have had some really heavy downpours but i gues the rain is everywhere anyway. I have uncontrollable burny sneezing fits random spates & ive never had hayfever. Could be dust but i think i would be sneezing all of the time if was. my sleep patterns change and i feel different when i drink tap water.

Bard of Ely
I know Gwaelod y Garth very well – a beautiful place! No, rain at all here – in fact a drought! I hope the tap water doesn’t have fluoride in it like it does in many places now – a much worse threat than chemtrails, which I don’t any more believe exist! Sneezing is caused by many things and there are countless things which people are allergic to with cats, house dust mites and many types of pollen being a few. In many places people are exposed to pollens like oil seed rape that is a fairly new crop that is being cultivated on a wide scale.

If these don’t exist how come there is this chemtrail tracking site I go to that tells you when they will be here and when they won’t be here and it’s dead on 90% of the time? How would this guy know if they did not exist? I mean I think they do exist and they are up to something up there, what it is I have no clue but I have heard both sides of the argument and use common sense when I look up and I know these are different from the contrails I see on some days. Some days I see contrais and then these all over the sky. Jazzroc and his arguments are not going to sway me from these things or make it like they don’t exist, like the devil they exist and they don’t want you to know it. I am staying believing and studying these and reading about them. Some say they know some who fly and say they do spray these things and think it is for our good, some say it’s just chaff and the military does spray it to jam radar, check those out in youtube. It has been on the news in Cali as well and weather channels if you look for it, so people do know and are up on these things, not enough people but some know. BTW as for the tracking site, I would put it up but some idiot will try to get it taken down if they are with the GOVT. or looking to keep these a wrap, I think I will pass but thats NO LIE. He tells when they will be spraying, and bottom line it happens.

Bard of Ely
Please post the tracking site here! As far as I am concerened it is simple to predict when trials will occur if you know flight paths. The problem with the subject is that chemtrail believers call persistent contrails “chemtrails” and non-believers call them contrails. And it is a belief system because I am a past believer and it was very hard for JazzRoc to get me to see the logic of his arguments! I am now a non-believer. I could give you an example of predicting trails: at around 10am on Sundays in winter but not in summer a plane goes across where I live and it leaves a long lasting trail that I used to call a chemtrail. Pics I have posted of this believers call a chemtrail, as I did. But now if I see the same trail and accept it as a persistent contrail of ice crystals. Conditions have changed and we are now seeing persistent trails which we have not been used to seeing and we have been led by those propagting the chemtrail belief to call them chemtrails but they are simply long lasting trails of ice crystals I now believe.

JazzRoc is a well known DISINFORMIST. He magically appears at any discussion of atmospheric manipulation discussion and thwarts it with local fallacy pseudo-science, mostly released as countermeasures to chemtrail discussion. BEWARE!!
Bard of Ely, i still can’t believe how easily you’ve been pushed over.

Bard of Ely
As I have explained before JazzRoc is none of the things people claim he is! He is someone I know personally and have met many times and actually worked on music with as well as having enjoyed walks around the island here. But people post other opinions about him when they know nothing about him apart from the fact that he does not believe in chemtrails.
If you read what I have written you will find that my belief in the subject was already on shaky grounds when I found that the air in South Wales under “chemtrailed” skies was cleaner than usual not badly polluted. At the time I couldn’t understand this as I had been led to believe by chemtrailers that the air was being poisoned. Clearly it was not the case. I have not seen any evidence for chemtrails as a reality apart from all the videos, photos, reports etc by chemtrail believers and what I used to think were chemtrails.

I have concluded that the chemtrail belief system is a disinformation campaign itself and a very successful one.



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PENROD – Debunking Chemtrail Debunking Debunking


This a response to a long and plausibly persuasive letter written by someone called “Penrod” which has made the rounds of the chemtrail world over the past few years. It is without facts and evidence, but probably “works” because of its great size. The reader thinks to himself “no-one would write such a long letter if there weren’t something to it”. And of course, that was WHY it was written. This exercise in sophistry places the writer in a position superior, for instance, to the Neils Bohr Institute!

I will preface this with a cursory search using Google which sets the stage for what follows:

Google Search Results 1 – 7 out of 645 for “paper” “aviation” “saturated” “atmosphere” “contrails” “-chemtrails” “-aerosols” – Dec 19th 2008.


“Contrail Formation and Persistence”
“Long lasting contrails like the ones observed usually occur in parts of the sky that have preexisting patches of cirrus clouds. Since the cirrus clouds are formed of ice crystals like the contrails, cirrus clouds in a region of the sky suggests supersaturation with respect to ice and sufficient heterogeneous nuclei for ice crystals to form. GOES-8 satellite photographs taken at approximately at the same time as the contrails were present show significant cirrus clouds around the Norman area providing the condition necessary for contrail persistence.”
S J Moss (1999). The Testing and Verification of Contrail Forecasts using Pilot Observations from Aircraft. Meteorological Applications
“Recent research has shown that old forecasting techniques may not be wholly applicable to modern aircraft that now use more efficient engines. In order to compare the performance of both the old and new forecasting techniques a validation trial was carried out over a nine-month period in which RAF pilots reported when and where contrails did and did not occur.”
Wakes of War: Contrails and the Rise of Air Power, 1918-1945 Part II—the Air War over Europe, 1939-1945
“It is easy to see that, if the air is so cold that it cannot hold much water as vapor, the water in the exhaust may be sufficient, when added to the moisture already in the atmosphere, to raise the humidity in the turbulent wake to or beyond the saturation value. If this condition exists, some of the water vapor will condense and a visible trail will form.”
A Laboratory Study of Contrails
“The existence of supercooled water at temperatures significantly colder than -40C is not a generally-accepted fact, but has been suspected by theorists for some time. Fig. 5 demonstrates that such supercooling of contrail condensate, whatever its purity, is possible.”
Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM
“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”
Proceedings of the Aircraft Research Association – http://www.greenerbydesign.org.uk/resources/2003_conference/The_Technology_Challenge.pdf
“Persistent contrails, which in time degenerate into cirrus cloud, only form in air which is saturated with respect to ice and the conditions for their formation and persistence are reasonably well understood. There’s no prospect of a technological fix for that. If you fly through an ice-saturated region in the atmosphere, you’ll produce a persistent contrail.”
1. Generally contrail ice in near equilibrium with ice mass proportional to contrail volume (except for the rapidly falling vortices early, and precipitation regions later).
2. Contrail volume largely determined by vortex dynamics (until ~ 4 min.) and Brunt-Vaisala oscillations (until ~ 20 min.).
3. Passive tracer, ice mass and ice number density distributions differ (strong dependence on RH ice ).
4. Heating due to adiabatic compression of falling vortex system can lead to significant ice crystal number depletion. (depending on RH ice , EI ice# , aircraft type).
5. Strong species fluctuations can have a significant impact on measured chemistry [e.g. HO2 /OH] in the aircraft wake.

You could, perhaps, look up the other 638 references, or select other relevant search terms, but you’ll notice I’ve chosen “chemtrails” and “aerosol” as terms to be excluded.


Debunking Chemtrail Debunkers – The Government’s Quisling Shills


As disreputable as it can be to engage in the unethical and underhanded, it can be as vile to know about the unscrupulous, and not acknowledge its existence.

The author knows about both.

The past few years has seen an unusual occurrence in the skies over the country.

For fifty-five years, actually.


Several or more times a month, jet planes, flying overhead, would start leaving unorthodox trails in the sky. Instead of the normal kind of contrails, usually accredited to jet aircraft, which stretch for a short distance behind the tail of the jet, and dissipate, as the sun warms and evaporates the ice crystals in the tails, these would stretch, generally, from horizon to horizon. Jets would fly overhead, spouting white, straight, thin clouds behind them, but, instead of disappearing quickly, they would persist stubbornly, forming a long path across the sky.

This happens in a humid stratosphere – ALWAYS.

The lane of cloud laid, then, would start to spread, side to side. Over the space of up to several hours, it would hang in the air, expanding. As it spread, it would thin, but not enough to completely evaporate. Indeed, apparently, never does a chemtrail actually evaporate! Instead, it would form a haze, sometimes even oily in appearance, from one side of the sky to the other, marking the path the jet took, but many, many times wider.

This happens because the trail gets caught up in the aircraft’s WAVE VORTEX – ALWAYS.


One of the most basic laws of Science is the one which says: “things stay the same (wherever they are) unless something new is added to the equation”, ie., there is no magic, invisible, imperceptible operation whereby a static situation might be changed (anywhere), and thus it will remain in perpetuity.

In our real world, and over considerable stretches of time, there are ALWAYS subtle operations taking place, but they are perceptible and they are measurable.

In the case of persistent contrails, if we assume the ice crystals are precipitated into a perfectly-saturated layer, they are originally destined to remain in “perpetuity”.  Stratospheric layers are normally stabilized and still, but then of course the passenger aircraft comes barreling along with its massive wave vortex (like two small tornadoes on their sides) and gets a’stirring. About a quarter of an hour later, the stirring has come to a stop through frictional forces, and then the crystals will start to slowly fall.

The layer with its ice crystals spread throughout it is dependent on the incident sunlight for its density and altitude, and as night falls and the sunlight no longer supplies heat energy, it will contract and fall. The crystals may fall out of the layer at this time, but as they fall through the tropopause they will probably evaporate into the warmer air beneath.

Ice crystals in the higher layers won’t have this option – they will fall slowly through the layer boundaries into lower layers. As the majority of stratospheric layers are NOT saturated, the crystals will sublime into water vapor (raising the humidity of that layer) and “disappear”.

As the substance left behind by the passing plane slowly spread across the sky, it would come to be joined by one, then another, then another, as other jets covered the same area of sky. Eventually – in a very short time, in fact! – the entire sky could be covered with a wispy haze, and what was once a crystal clear day, now wouldn’t show a single patch of blue! And what sun did manage to shine through could, often, be accompanied by an oily, multi-colored reflection from the substance now lying thickly overhead.

Stratospheric layers are THIN, and if heavily supersaturated can render themselves OPAQUE after the through flight of a SINGLE AIRCRAFT. The description “oily” is a consequence of INTERFERENCE by the very fine ICE crystals with the sunlight passing through them. This can only occur when the material – water – is PURE. With the exception of the nucleating molecule, regular crystal formation is not possible with adulterants present.

A long-distance (5000 kilometer) flight by a Boeing 747 will spread the equivalent weight of its fuel load in ice into the stratosphere, where it will sublime and “disappear” if the layers are dry. However, if the layers are NOT, then it will persist and possibly accrete more ice.

It is quite possible for the trail to accrete A THOUSAND TIMES and even TEN THOUSAND TIMES its weight in ICE if it passes through a supersaturated layer. (The ice held in supersaturation as a vapor can only be there in conditions of absolute purity – or else it would, of course, have precipitated as ice onto whatever ambient impurities there were.)

See “A Jumbo Jet and an Ocean Liner” here:


It is this vast (and non-intuitive) increase in trail size which fuels this debate. They become VAST… the jumbo flight we are considering here can precipitate 80,000 tons of ice – the weight of a large ocean liner!


This has been a commonplace in the United States, and apparently, numerous other countries, as well, for about six years now! Those who examine these phenomena have termed them “chemtrails”, to distinguish them from contrails, and to emphasize the evident presence of foreign substances in the clouds. Since about 1997, these tracks have been a constant presence in the skies of the country.

WRONG. The phenomenon has been photographed continually since 1940. Persistent contrails are NOT a “constant presence”, but only to be found in humid conditions. “Chemtrails” are mythological.

Sometimes, they can be in parallel lines. Sometimes, there can be several. Sometimes, there can be many, all at once. Sometimes, they can be curved. Sometimes, they can form “X”s. Sometimes, they form “H”s. Sometimes, they can form more elaborate patterns. Sometimes, they will form the collections of lines called “spider webs” or “grids”. Sometimes, they will form what is called the “fan pattern”. And, often, strange and even abnormal and bizarre effects can also be observed.

And will ALWAYS be so observed, as they are the NORMAL consequence of CIVIL AVIATION TRAFFIC when the stratosphere is HUMID.

And, when the trails appear, they can cause many different effects, besides ruining the appearance of a day. In some places afflicted by chemtrails, it is reported, for example, that, shortly afterward, heavy rains, likely induced by the trails, will form. But these rains, often, will rain down strange materials, evidently from the tracks in the sky.

The OTHER WAY AROUND. The trails are caused by humid air in the first place. This humid air makes the rain. The proof of this is that trails are frequently seen from space over the mid-ocean. They always coincide with wet weather conditions.

Some rainfalls will produce a thick, viscous, reddish material covering trees, cars and houses. Sometimes, a fine, spider web-like substance will be evident everywhere. And, often, residents living below the clouds will begin to experience serious symptoms, from headache to muscle aches to nausea to difficulty breathing to bloody noses! Many describe the symptoms as similar to flu and, indeed, in areas over which the chemtrails are formed, it is reported, advertisements for volunteers in a study of flu will appear in local newspapers a couple of days before the onslaught of chemicals in the sky.

There have ALWAYS been these materials transported in the sky, just as people have ALWAYS experienced breathing illnesses and skin diseases. I remember having to scrape red Saharan sand off my car in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, England, in 1973!

Attempts at analysis have been attempted by numerous individuals determined to find out

Yes, by laying collection devices on the ground (as if trays were capable of rejecting ground-level dusts!). As instanced at the beginning of this article, proper scientific sampling and analyses of trails have been carried out at frequent intervals since the fifties by various professional authorities.

what is being done to the people, and frequently opposed by evident betrayers of the public mandate.

A BASELESS ACCUSATION, for which you have produced NO EVIDENCE whatsoever.

The analyses that have been attempted have yielded constituents of the chemtrails ranging from ethylene dibromide to aluminum chaff to barium oxide to pseudonomas fluoroscens and pseudonomas aeruginosa.

These ground level tray samplings have collected materials which are ALWAYS found EVERYWHERE you find MAN.

Ethylene dibromide is a compound which, due to its fire repellant properties, has been added to JP-4 jet fuel to produce JP-8 fuel. It is a potent pesticide, which has also been listed by the EPA as one of the deadliest chemicals known.

Entirely (and mendaciously) untrue. It WAS an additive to gasoline (in the sixties). It was not an additive to JP-4 and is NOT found in JP-8! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-8

Using the search “JP 8 composition” in Google, the first up was this:


Both JP-5 and JP-8 are distillate fuels consisting of distilled process streams refined from crude petroleum.
The characteristics of JP-8 fuel (such as density and distillation temperatures) are very similar to those of JP-5 (DOD 1992).
There is no standard formula for jet fuels.
Their exact composition depends on the crude oil from which they were refined. Variability in fuel composition occurs because of differences in the original crude oil (Custance et al. 1992; IARC 1989) and in the individual additives.
As a result of this variability, little information exists on the exact chemical and physical properties of jet fuels (Custance et al. 1992).
However, the differences in these fuels are minor. The primary ingredient of both JP-5 and JP-8 is kerosene, and the composition of these fuels is basically the same as kerosene, with the exceptions that they are made under more stringent conditions and contain various additives not found in kerosene (DOD 1992; IARC 1989).
The crude oil from which JP-5 and JP-8 are refined is derived from petroleum, tar sands, oil shale, or mixtures thereof (DOD 1992). Typical additives to JP-5 and JP-8 include antioxidants (including phenolic antioxidants), static inhibitors, corrosion inhibitors, fuel system icing inhibitors, lubrication improvers, biocides, and thermal stability improvers (DOD 1992; IARC 1989; Pearson 1988). These additives are used only in specified amounts, as governed by military specifications (DOD 1992; IARC 1989).
Straight-run kerosene, the basic component of the kerosene used for jet fuels, consists of hydrocarbons with carbon numbers mostly in the C9–
C16 range. Like all jet fuels, straight-run kerosene consists of a complex mixture of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons (LARC 1989). Aliphatic alkanes (paraffins) and cycloalkanes (naphthenes) are hydrogen-saturated, clean burning, and chemically stable and together constitute the major part of kerosene (IARC 1989).
Aromatics comprise 1o-20% and olefins less than 1% of the jet fuels (JARC 1989). The boiling range of kerosene, JP-5, and JP-8 is well above the boiling point of benzene (a carcinogenic aromatic) and many polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs); consequently, the benzene content of kerosene and these jet fuels is normally below 0.02%, and PAHs are virtually excluded (IARC 1989).

JP8 1

JP8 2

Aluminum chaff is powder, as fine as talc, used to scramble enemy radar.


False. Chaff is composed offine needles of zinc-plated glass, their length tuned to the wavelength of the radar it is expected to jam. It was first used by Britain in WWII, when it was called “WINDOW”. It is expelled in “bursts”, not as a continuous stream! Its only purpose is to produce a stationary target “blip” on enemy radar screens. It is chemically inert, and similar to Christmas tinsel.

Barium oxide is a crystalline compound purportedly useful for reflecting radio signals, supposedly making it possible to transmit over the curve of the earth.

False. It is NOT crystalline. It will be not distinguishable from calcium oxide (quicklime), except by density.

It was discovered to be possible to reflect radio beams off the underside of the ionosphere (a hundred miles up!) about a hundred years ago (Marconi). But the ionosphere does this normally. The use of Barium been tested once or twice in HAARP experiments to reach and focus over the horizon, using small sounding rockets. No aircraft fly that high.

Pseudonomas fluoroscens is a bacteria capable of producing potent, flu-like symptoms. Pseudonomas aeruginosa, on the other hand, is considered one of the deadliest pathogens known.

And they are found EVERYWHERE. Even on YOU. I quote:

Jounal of Clinical Microbiology. 1976 March

Epidemiology of Pseudomonas Aeruginosa infections: determination by pyocin typing.

pseudomonas aeruginosa

pseudomonas aeruginosa

“P. aeruginosa was isolated from 45 of 353 environmental samples, including water fountains, ice machines, bar soaps, and germicide solutions for toilet brushes. Twenty percent of the environmental samples were untypable but, among typable strains, the five most common environmental strains were the same as the strains most frequently isolated from patients. The organism was frequently isolated from noses (39%), throats (39%), and stools (29%) of patients with P. aeruginosa infections or colonizations in urine, sputum, surgical wounds, or skin lesions. Six of eight patients had P. aeruginosa in their tracheostomy wounds. Autoinfections by strains already acquired on carrier sites may be significant.”

These are only a few of the unusual materials found in abnormal abundance after chemtrail appearances in many parts of the country! In their wake, numerous theories have been advanced for their presence.

They are NOT “unusual” materials. They are ubiquitous!

Aluminum chaff has been suggested as being used to prevent terrorist communications from being successful in the country.


Barium oxide has been proposed to be being employed to facilitate American military and governmental broadcasts across the nation and overseas. It has also been linked to the generally obscure, but technically public, HAARP project. HAARP stands for High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program. It resides on a site apparently more than a mile square, near Galcona, Alaska. The purpose of the site is an almost 30 acre array of 180 antennas. They represent their intent to be to develop methods of using the earth’s aurora to facilitate communication and as an espionage tool. Barium oxide crystals are believed to be effective in this.

So? A lot of actions are, have been, and will be “proposed”. HAARP’s capabilities are mostly line-of-sight. Only its low-energy wavelengths reach over its horizon. Barium Oxide is NOT stable: on meeting water it will react with it to form barium hydroxide and liberating heat.

Ethylene dibromide and the numerous pathogens often found in abundance after massive chemtrail presence over an area have led to considerations that everything from eugenics to wholesale destruction of populations is an aim of the apparent campaign of serial spraying over the country.

This statement is entirely without basis. Pathogens are ubiquitous throughout the entire world, and it would not be possible to NOT find them.

EDB might only be found as a vapor, and in vanishingly small amounts. I do not believe that at normal trace dilution in air it would be even possible to identify EDB.

Other theories such as weather manipulation and control of global warming have been advanced for the spraying in the skies over the nation. The fact that rainstorms are often claimed to result from chemtrails in the Pacific Northwest can relate to this, but, in that area, many of the instances of severe sickness after chemtrails have also been reported.

Such propositions are abstract and are not real. Contrails precede rainstorms because they are both consequential upon HUMIDITY. Correlation and causation have been proved in this case. Satellite pictures of trails confirm this. In the case of contrails and sickness, correlation has been proved not to mean causation. Infection normally has a causation closer to home, such as public transport, meeting places – other people.

In fact, though, it is often possible to raise objections to each theory, and that fact is frequently employed by those who call themselves “debunkers” to criticize, demean and even baldly ridicule those who want an answer to the issue of chemtrails! It is possible to counter each theory, it appears, because, in fact, no one is universally correct!

Countering you is easy, for you are universally INCORRECT.

It appears that many different purposes are being served by chemtrails, and, for each, different substances are being sprayed into the air. To claim one unique purpose for every case of aerial spraying is to run the risk of not identifying correctly what is being done in each particular area.

It appears that, stuck with a range of theories which are all baseless, you haven’t a clue as to what to attribute to which. Unsurprisingly.

Is it the military which conducts this “world-wide” campaign, or the civil passenger jets?

For example, in the Northeastern part of the United States, chemtrails have been a prevalent sight for some time, now. However, there, they rarely, if ever, precipitate a rainstorm. Indeed, in that part of the country, the purpose of chemtrails seems to be to forestall rainfall.

One reason for your confusion is that you fail to distinguish between the troposphere and the stratosphere. The former is what YOU call “the weather”, the latter is where AIRPLANES FLY. Calling contrails “chemtrails” without basis is all you are doing here.

Since at least winter of 2002, that part of the country has experienced massive drought. Reservoir levels are down almost to record lows, if not actually below them! Yet, in that time, chemtrailing has been very frequent! In fact, it had become a pattern that forecasters would predict showers or even thunderstorms a couple of days ahead, then chemtrails would be seen in abundance in the sky, and, afterward, the predicted precipitation would not come! The region would be lucky if it got a misting on days when, previously, thunderstorms were forecast. This went on through most of the winter of 2002, and has begun, again, the past couple of months.

Correlation does not mean causation. When groundwater is sampled during dry periods, then the concentration of its dissolved solids rises. That is the causation. There is nothing here permitting  you to claim “chemtrailing has been very frequent“!

The reason for this seems to be that, in the Northeast, the purpose of chemtrails was to disturb the process that can generate a rainstorm.

As I said before, your failure to make accurate distinctions leads you on to completely baseless accusations.

In general, a rainstorm can occur if warm, wet air rises particularly quickly into an overlying cold area.

In the troposphere all air is “wet” (even when it is CLEAR). All overlying air is colder. That is why it is UNSTABLE. All it needs is a source of heat beneath it to start it moving upwards.


This can result in the rapid cooling of water into clouds like thunderheads.

The rising air ISN’T COOLED by the overlying air: it cools by ADIABATIC EXPANSION as it rises into a lowering pressure. The cumulonimbus anvil you see above is spreading out as it meets this change in air conditions (troposphere-to-stratosphere). If you look you can see the change in conditions. Above the tropopause (where the air temperature at an absolute minimum) is the stratosphere, where the air temperature rises with increasing altitude.

The sudden, uncontrolled invasion of wet air into cool air seems to spawn many of the systems that give rise to rainstorms.

Rubbish. “Sudden, uncontrolled invasion” is the way the physics of the troposphere normally operates!

What chemtrails seem to have been used to accomplish, for at least the past year in the Northeast, has been to steadily gently mix the air at the boundary layers between air masses.

More rubbish: stratospheric layers do not intermix: they remain in STRATA (layers). That is WHY the stratosphere is so called.

Flying in the border between wet and cold air, the chemtrails seem to have been intended to control the rate and degree of mixing of the air, allowing cloud banks to form, but not swiftly and suddenly.

Rubbish. (This ignorant man dares to teach atmospheric physics!)

Wispy but not stormy cirrus clouds were the inevitable result, each time, the sky hazing over into a sheet of white, but never cumulous clouds.

There are NO SUCH CLOUDS as “stormy cirrus clouds”. Cirrus clouds are in the stratosphere, which lies above ALL storms. “Horsetail” cirrus is caused by shear between layers. The layers do not mix when they shear.

Among other things countering the “arguments” of debunkers that chemtrails are only normal contrails, and not some kind of controlled program on the part of government, is that, when chemtrails formed in the Northeast, for at least the past year, cumulous clouds never formed! If chemtrails were harmless and innocuous paths of water vapor from random jets, there would have to have been at least one case when cumulous clouds formed, following such an onslaught. But they never did.

Seems reasonable to you who doesn’t understand that the stratosphere is ABOVE the troposphere, which is where cumulus clouds may be found, and NEVER MIXES WITH IT. Most cumulus clouds are ten thousand feet (two miles) beneath the stratosphere!

The only reason any relief was seen in the past year in the Northeast was that chemtrails were not always laid immediately prior to an expected storm system. For a period, near the end of winter 2002, and into the beginning of spring 2002, chemtrails were not laid, just before storm fronts were expected. When a storm was predicted, and chemtrails were not produced in the sky, the storm, generally, occurred. In the last of the letters we sent, we outlined the means whereby chemtrails could be used to prevent rain and promote drought. Immediately following them, the chemtrails slacked off in the Northeast, rains picked up and the drought lessened significantly. The connection is not easily deniable, if at all. But a deliberate, planned nature of the phenomena is eminently apparent. Certainly, the chemtrails utilized in the Northeast, for about the last year, follow a pattern apparently geared toward controlling the mixing of air layers. Once they begin, they generally last for between four and six hours. They can occur twice in a day, but not often. They have been known to occur at night, also. Not only do they evidently prevent cumulus clouds from forming, these chemtrails almost never occur on a day when there are cumulus clouds in the sky! Once the clouds characteristic of the kind of chaotic mixing of air masses, that produces rainstorms, are present, it seems the purpose of the chemtrails in the Northeast is obviated, so they aren’t attempted. They generally do not occur, too, on very windy days, but they occur more during windy days than on days with cumulus clouds. On windy days there generally isn’t an air layer overlying another, so the object of chemtrails seems nonexistent for the most part then. They also seem to occur more often on warm days, than on cold, or on the warmest day in a span of days.

This whole paragraph characterises the meaninglessness you might find both if you attempt to find a formula for what is essentially a chaotic natural process, and when you don’t understand the ordinary processes either. The physics of such processes are well known, of course. They can be simulated, but can NEVER be predicted.

The constant feature of your writing is your failure to distinguish between the differing properties of the troposphere and the stratosphere, and the vast difference in height (and temperature, and, incidentally, pressure) between the two.

Chemtrails in other parts of the country may be for other purposes, and so may not be laid in the same patterns as those in the Northeast – those in the Pacific Northwest, for example, may be intended to facilitate the operation of the HAARP project, only a short ways north, in Alaska – but the serious drought conditions that afflicted the country, this year, seem to indicate that that was a purpose for many of those observed in the last few months.

See above.

There seems little plausible reason – if any – to doubt that chemtrails are deliberately produced, and not normal contrails.

You haven’t actually given ANY reason to claim this. So why should they exist?

Unsurprisingly, however, though, there are those who seek to oppose the assertions of those who contend that chemtrails are abnormal, and should be stopped. Apparently calculatedly, they term themselves “debunkers”, to inculcate the perception that concern over chemtrails is, more than “misguided”, an out-and-out hoax or fraud! Indeed, a number of them have used the term “hoax” in describing the concern over chemtrails – evidently suggesting that those who address the issue are actually pulling a prank on themselves – and even accused some who pursue the issue of doing it purely for personal profit.

Anyone who forms opinions on a topic before he has educated himself HAS pulled a prank on himself!

As if someone choosing to try to make a profit off a situation suddenly makes that situation not exist. Many have tried to hawk fake nostrums to eliminate the symptoms of the common cold, but that doesn’t make the common cold nonexistent.

I see. “Chemtrails” are real  BECAUSE chemtrailers are fraudulent.

Moreover, the “debunkers” regularly tout the software, Flight Explorer, to “identify” aircraft using routes where chemtrails form. Not only do they apparently, wish to negate the existence of chemtrails by simply calling them contrails, they seem to want to convince the public that they arise from innocuous, harmless aircraft simply because unidentified, unverified information a piece of software displays on a screen says it does.


The Flight Explorer software shows the normal civil aircraft routes. When these coincide with humid stratospheric conditions they ALWAYS produce persistent trails. Each dot corresponds to an aircraft. There are quite a few…

They try to “counsel” people against using the guidance of their eyes and their common sense in chemtrails; they, instead, apparently, want them to blindly obey “the official story”.

The “official story” happens to be established atmospheric science. Your whole attitude to science is one of contempt.

Indeed, such faulty “reasoning”, coupled with an attitude of guile and contempt, seems universally to characterize the chemtrail debunkers.

Use your eyes. The Sun goes round the Earth doesn’t it? Scientists are WRONG, are they?

The interpretation of data requires more than just the ability to write about it. Understanding science gives one the ability to correctly interpret data. People who hold science in contempt frequently don’t have this ability. You don’t…

As their own “explanation” of the phenomenon, they carp the common line that “under certain precise conditions of temperature, pressure and humidity, water vapor from jet exhaust will act as the nuclei for condensation of water in the air around the jet. “The preciseness of the conditions, evidently, is intended to “explain” why all jet trails are not the elongated, long lasting sight that chemtrails are. But, within at least the last year, days with chemtrails constitute no less than about a third of the entire year!

“‘Their own “explanation'” are your words, Penrod, for established atmospheric science. This science has been developed by thousands of scientists over nearly a hundred years. You have already demonstrated your inability to understand this subject. You do so here…

In many cases, we woke up to already hazed over skies, indicating that chemtrailing had been done before dawn, or deformed, but elongated, wispy clouds would be present in the sky, indicating that chemtrails had been laid elsewhere, and drifted to where we were. As a result, chemtrail days constitute no less than one third, and, sometimes, no less than 40%, of the days! Far from a “precise” set of circumstances. If you add in the fact that, even after chemtrails may have passed, persistent haze can remain in the upper atmosphere, turning the sky a sickish white, or limiting the blueness of the natural sky that is permitted to show through, you have that no more than two or three genuinely blue sky days are permitted per month, anymore! Chemtrail opponents list this as one of their primary complaints with chemtrails, as well, the simple fact that they are being systematically robbed of their blue sky. Only a few decades ago, summer could guarantee weeks worth of clear, blue days. Now, to have just one is an event, at least in the Northeast. During the past summer, in Northern New Jersey, there haven’t been more than five or six days, all told, that were bright blue. Nor is this an insignificant thing. Substituting bright blue days with heavily overcast, low-hanging skies, or persistent mists, instead of the kind of rain that will clear a sky of haze, produces a listless even despondent atmosphere. Over time, it can depress individuals and even sap them of initiative.

A million tons of ice dumped daily into the stratosphere is bound to change things, but you appear to forget that there are such things as “dull days” in normal weather. Chemtrails don’t exist, and it seems it’s you who are depressed and lacking the initiative to learn about atmospheric science.

Experiments during the Seventies and Eighties, in fact, suggested that certain colors can promote certain types of responses. Pink was found, in some, to have a calming effect; brown and orange were found to stimulate appetite; and bright, light blue was found to promote imagination. Isolation cells in a number of jails, as a result of this, were painted pink, and the prevalence of browns, oranges and reds in the color schemes of fast food restaurants, during the Eighties, is testament to an evident unscrupulousness in their “marketing” tactics! Withholding clear skies from the populace seems, also, targeted at controlling the people’s initiative and foresight. Someone in government, it appears, doesn’t want the people to think for themselves about what they see going on around them.

You are attempting to link in other things to convince yourself. In fact, the research into the psychological effects of colors has a much older history than you appear to know.

As reliable as the provability of tenuousness in the debunkers, “arguments” – and the eminent apparent danger in chemtrailing – is the debunkers’ coming up with yet other attempts at discrediting those who oppose chemtrails. They couldn’t deny the existence of days when huge numbers of chemtrails clutter the skies, because innumerable photographs to the contrary exist. If that wasn’t the case, there is little doubt they would try to utterly and baldly deny their existence, altogether. Initially, though, they did, apparently, try the wheeze that “aircraft exhaust can’t alter the environment”! That has since been overturned by a number of studies indicating that, at the very least, the obscuring effect of normal contrails was enough to lower the earth’s temperature by at least 1º Fahrenheit.

Johannes Itten original color wheel

Johannes Itten original color wheel

During daytime – and RAISING it by one degree during the night. Net result zero.

It has always been known in scientific circles that combustion (of anything!) affects the atmosphere. If you merely took the single step of entering the words into a search engine you would have discovered this. You were obviously too depressed and sapped…

Equally as determinedly posited was the assertion that, even if long, environmentally-altering trails were being laid, it wasn’t deliberate. Countering that is the revelation that numerous patents and proposals for using aircraft to affect weather have been filed, in the past few years alone! “Cloudseeding” is the least of the methods; preventing global warming was a major goal of many. Recently, too, even the military published a proposal tothe effect of using weather control in wartime as a “force multiplier” against enemy troops. They termed their proposal “Owning the Weather by 2025”.

Yes, many things are proposed, but proposition doesn’t guarantee existence. Much as correlation doesn’t guarantee causation.

In the face of these demonstrations of their evidently patent falsehood in opposing chemtrail followers

A lie, because so far you still haven’t produced even a single item of evidence. Not even over ten years of trying.

debunkers have taken up the line that, even though jet exhaust can affect the environment, and even though there are plans to utilize that to control the weather, jets never release anything other than normal exhaust into the air. In the recent past, however, CNN aired a report of military planes, among other things, releasing egg whites into the air to test radar methods for, putatively, tracking drug planes! It is questionable what aspect of the situation the debunkers will attempt to attack next.


BUNKUM is always worth attacking. There’s no UPSIDE to BUNKUM.

And the debunkers have shown every determination to oppose suspicion about and examination of chemtrails as much as would be necessary to end questioning about them! They have taken out whole websites devoted to opposing chemtrail suspicions; they have even launched mirror sites of websites, to provide as much a saturation of the internet with their evident propaganda as possible!

In my case, I met this bunkum a year and a half ago. I too am taking steps to counteract the social damage caused by your lies and libels and slanders. While you waste everyone’s time on this bunkum, people are still suffering the ills you mention (which have, obviously, other causes).

They run the gamut from an individual that calls herself “ChickieDeb”, and identifies herself as “a housewife from Indiana” – ChickieDeb being one of those who launched three websites devoted to debunking – to an organization given the frankly questionable name “New Mexicans for Science and Reason – suggesting they see “science” and “reason” to be two totally separate and unrelated things.

I think not! Reason is the first step in science.

Jay Reynolds, who seems proud to oppose the assertion that chemtrails are not normal contrails, and who also sponsored three separate sites to mirror his assertions, likewise states, on his website: “the real state of things that agrees with facts and reality.” Meaning, presumably, that,  for Mr. Reynolds, “facts” and “reality” are two totally separate and unrelated things. Before struggling to oppose investigation into chemtrails, the debunkers, it appears, should attempt developing a pose that doesn’t come across as that of an incompetent poseur.

Once more, I think not!

The nature of the debunkers’ refutations, however, is consistent with the stock in trade of those without a leg to stand on. Pre-eminent among their “tools” is out-and-out derision. Jay Reynolds titles his mirror sites “Contrails or Trails-CON?” One of the devotees of chemtrail examination, William Thomas, he terms a “snake oil salesman”.

The temptation to deride you is hard to resist. You still haven’t produced any evidence, and now you’re into “ad-hominem” fallacies!

On ChickieDeb’s site, cdebsjournal.topcities.com/Rhaltitude.htm, she quotes Jay Reynolds as characterizing those who mobilize the movement to study chemtrails as “X-file wackos”, and ChickieDeb openly agrees. Larry Lawson, whom ChickieDeb identifies as a “chemtrail perpetrator”, is also referred to, by her, as a “pipsqueak”. On the same page, incidentally, ChickieDeb condemns “religious fundamentalists”, like she models Mr. Lawson to be, who “think that God is unable to take care of things by Himself”. ChickieDeb seems of the opinion that people should just sit still and do nothing,leave it all to God – or whatever she tries to pass off as a deity – to do things in the world. She seems intent on coercing others into a willing complacence and disinterest in taking action in the world. The title of another of her websites devoted, apparently, to deceiving people about the reality of chemtrails is “DO YOU WANT TO STOP BEING AFRAID?”

A laudable question. It is you who is “deceiving people about the reality of chemtrails”! And you who is creating needless fear.

Apparently she couldn’t be happier if everyone agreed not to be concerned about what is being done to their environment, and just let their rights and interests be run roughshod over! Even an atheist would accept that God would not have created man just to sit and watch the world; a purpose for creating man was so that man could do things and not leave it to God to “take care of things by Himself”. Having people stand up for themselves, however, seems anathema to what ChickieDeb has in mind for them.

I AM an atheist, thankyou, and don’t need YOU to put words in my mouth. As an atheist I don’t accept that “God” exists. Nor should you put words in her mouth. You still haven’t produced any evidence.

The debunkers seem never at a loss for disparaging names to call those who seem to threaten the government secret they work so hard to hide, or a boundless store of contempt for others.

It’s boundless for those slanderers and time-wasters like you.

The evident attempt to vilify suspicion of chemtrails is also a commonplace on debunkers, websites. ChickieDeb titles at least one of her mirror sites, worldzone.net/international.checkiedeb, “CHEMTRAIL HOAX – The Best Kept Secret In the World”. On that site, ChickieDeb gives space to an article by Jay Reynolds, entitled “HOW TO RUN A CHEMTRAIL SCARE FOR FUN AND PROFIT”. On one of the pages on one of ChickieDeb’s mirror sites,www.worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb/cgi/col2.shtml, chemtrail opponents are belittled for accusing debunkers of not using logic, and it is said, of them, that “they refuse to recognize logic and rationale”.

Shame, the link’s non-existent (like your evidence. But I found the article, thanks).

“Rationale”, it could be mentioned, for ChickieDeb’s information, means the “excuse” or “justification” one uses to “explain” their actions. It is not an accompanying quality with logic. What ChickieDeb seems to have wanted to mention – yet apparently did not have the depth of education to supply – was “rationality”.

Bully for you.

On the page, worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb//cgi/eyeswideshut.shtml, ChickieDeb acknowledges that a term the debunkers use for chemtrail opponents is “Insane Cloud Posse”.

That’s succinct.

Contempt is a large part of the debunkers, stock in trade. When not engaging in determined vituperation of chemtrail opponents, the debunkers attempt a “validation” of their condemnation of chemtrail concerns, usually through patently indulgence in fraudulent double-talk and specious “demonstrations”.

This definition of science, I know, precedes your demonstration of complete scientific ignorance.

The endless, arch and professorial expositions on “temperature, humidity and pressure” is only one aspect of this tack. Even there, though, the debunkers find it difficult to work within the bounds of their own presentations. On http://www.weatherwise.org/qr/qry.chemtrail.html, Thomas Schlatter, who passes himself off as a “NOAA meteorologist”


contends that long lasting contrails can occur if the temperature is less than 70º and the relative humidity of air, compared to ice is greater than 100%, that is, there is more than enough water vapor to replace ice as ice dissolves in the sunlight.

Ice DOES NOT “dissolve in sunlight”! (It sublimes into water vapor. Is that your idea? Yes – that IS your idea!))

The apparent purpose of this seems to be just to give the impression that long lasting contrails are possible. But it soon became evident that this was also describing an eminently unlikely – if not patently impossible – situation. To apparently patch up this problem, ChickieDeb on the web page cdebsjournal.topcities.com/leadpage.htm, apparently desperately and recklessly blurts that “contrails can occur with zero humidity if the temperature is cold enough”. Leaving aside the fact that she conveniently says only that “contrails” – not long-lasting contrails – can occur under those conditions – which no one denies – on the web page the link she provides leads to, someone named Dr. Patrick Minnis asserts only that meteorological instruments reading humidity at high altitudes have been supposedly, consistently wrong, so that presumably high altitude humidities are larger than expected.

There is nothing either unlikely or impossible about this. There ARE problems with measuring high-altitude humidities due to icing taking place at the instrument aperture. Attempting to use heating to clear it will obviously distort the humidity figures. It can be done these days using “remote” laser interferometry from the ground.

Importantly, on the page, it also refers only to “contrails” forming, not long-lasting contrails. In what seems to constitute little more than what is termed “hand-waving”, Dr. Minnis then goes on to state, without explanation or justification, that relative humidities have to be greater than 100% for “contrails to persist for very long”, but, “at those cold temperatures, a small error in moisture measurement” can lead to “a large error” in the relative humidity. Supposedly, then, not only are relative humidities at high altitudes greater than previously thought, they, putatively, are even greater than they appear, because readings might have a small error that can translate into a massive difference in the actual humidity.

someone named Dr. Patrick Minnis”? Do you mean THIS person?

PATRICK MINNIS, Climate Sciences Branch, NASA Langley Research Center, Mail Stop 420, Hampton, VA 23681. Born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Raised in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma graduating from Casady School in 1968. 1991 – Ph.D., University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, Meteorology 1978 – M.S., Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, CO, Atmospheric Science 1972 – B.E., Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN, Materials Science & Metallurgical Engineering, Senior Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Science Directorate, 1981-1986, Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Materials Application and Technology Division, 1977-1981, Research Engineer, Kentron International, 1972-1975, Product Engineer, Ferro Fiberglass.


Who works with a team of scientists at NASA on this?:

GOES Satellite equipped with LASER spectrographs for atmospheric analysis

GOES Satellite equipped with LASER spectrography for atmospheric analysis

Who knows better than anyone else (except the other members of his team) about the condition of the Earth’s atmosphere – THAT Dr. Minnis?

If Dr. Minnis “waved his hand”, unlike you, it would mean that he could back it up with serious results. You like to contend with Dr. Minnis, but NOT with the preceding fifty years’ work in atmospheric physics. Why? Was it something he said? Maybe:

Minnis, Patrick and Cox, Stephen K.: A Polynominal Representation of 6.3mm Water Vapor and 4.3mm CO2 Atmospheric Transmissivities. Atmospheric Science Paper No. 264, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, Colorado, 20 pp., December 1976.
Minnis, Patrick and Cox, Stephen K.: Magnitude of the Radiative Effects of the Sahara Dust Layer. Atmospheric Science Paper No. 283, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, Colorado, 111 pp., January 1978.
Harrison, Edwin F.; Minnis, Patrick; Gibson, Gary G.: Orbital and Cloud Sampling Analyses for Multisatellite Earth Radiation Budget Experiments.Journal of Spacecraft and Rockets, Vol. 20, No. 5, pp. 491-495, September-October 1983.
Brooks, David R. and Minnis, Patrick: Comparison of Longwave Diurnal Models Applied to Simulations of the Earth Radiation Budget Experiment. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 23, pp. 155-160, January 1984.
Brooks, David R. and Minnis, Patrick: Simulation of the Earth’s Monthly Average Regional Radiation Balance Derived from Satellite Measurements. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 23, pp. 392-403, March 1984.
Minnis, Patrick and Harrison, Edwin F.: Diurnal Variability of Regional Cloud and Clear-Sky Radiative Parameters Derived from GOES Data, Part I: Analysis Method. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 23, pp. 993-1011, July 1984.
Minnis, Patrick and Harrison, Edwin F.: Diurnal Variability of Regional Cloud and Clear-Sky Radiative Parameters Derived from GOES Data, Part II: November 1978 Cloud Distribution. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 23, pp. 1012-1031, July 1984.
Minnis, Patrick and Harrison, Edwin F.: Diurnal Variability of Regional Cloud and Clear-Sky Radiative Parameters Derived from GOES Data; Part III: November 1978 Radiative Parameters. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 23, pp. 1032-1052, July 1984.
Brooks, David R.; England, Christopher F.; Hunt, Gary E., and Minnis, Patrick: An Intercomparison of Meteosat 1 and GOES 2 Visible and Infrared Measurements. Journal of Atmospheric and Oceanographic Technology, pp. 283-286, September 1984.
Stuhlmann, Rolf; Minnis, Patrick, and Smith, G. Louis: Cloud Bidirectional Reflectance Functions: A Comparison of Experimental and Theoretical Results. Applied Optics, pp. 396-401, February 1985.
Rossow, W.; Mosher, F.; Kinsella, E.; Arking, A.; Desbois, M.; Harrison, E.; Minnis, P.; Ruprecht, E.; Simmer, C., and Smith, E.: ISCCP Cloud Algorithm Intercomparison. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 24, pp. 877-903, September 1985.
Briegleb, B. P.; Minnis, P.; Ramanathan, V., and Harrison, E. F.: Comparison of Regional Clear-Sky Albedos Inferred from Satellite Observations and Model Computations. Journal of Climate and Applied Meteorology, Vol. 25, pp. 214-226, February 1986.
Brooks, D. R.; Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Suttles, J. T., and Kandel, R. S.: Development of Algorithms for Understanding the Temporal and Spatial Variability of the Earth’s Radiation Balance. Reviews of Geophysics, Vol. 24, pp. 422-438, May 1986.
Fishman, J.; Minnis, P., and Riechle, Jr., H. G.: Use of Satellite Data to Study Ozone in the Tropics. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 91, pp. 14451-14465, December 1986.
Minnis, P.; Harrison, E. F.; Brooks, D. R., and Young, D. F.: Temporal Variability of the Radiation Budget over the Tibetan Plateau Determined from the ERBE Satellites. Atmospheric Radiation, Progress and Prospects: Proceedings of the Beijing International Radiation Symposium, China Press, pp. 76-81, 1987.
Minnis, P.; Harrison, E. F.; and Gibson, G. G.: Cloud Cover over the Equatorial Eastern Pacific Derived from July 1983 ISCCP Data Using a Hybrid Bispectral Threshold Method. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 92, pp. 4051-4073, April 1987.
Potter, G. L.; Cess, R. D.; Minnis, P.; Harrison, E. F., and V. Ramanathan: Diurnal Variability of the Planetary Albedo: An Appraisal with Satellite Measurements and General Circulation Models. Journal of Climate, Vol. 1, pp. 233- 239, Mar. 1988.
Suttles, J. T.; Green, R. N.; Minnis, P.; Smith, G. L.; Staylor, W. F.; Wielicki, B. A.; Walker, I. J.; Young, D. F.; Taylor, V. R., and Stowe, L. L.: Angular Radiation Models for Earth-Atmosphere System: Volume I – Shortwave Radiation.NASA RP 1184, 144 pp., July 1988.
Minnis, P. and Wielicki, B. A.: Comparison of Cloud Amounts Using GOES and Landsat Data.Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 93, pp. 9385-9403, August 1988.
Harrison, E. F.; Brooks, D. R.; Minnis, P.; Wielicki, B. A.; Staylor, W. F.; Gibson, G. G.; Young, D. F.; Denn, F. M., and the ERBE Science Team: First Estimates of the Diurnal Variation of Longwave Radiation from the Multiple-Satellite Earth Radiation Budget Experiment (ERBE).Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Vol. 69, pp. 1144-1151, October 1988.
Ramanthan, V.; Cess, R. D.; Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Barkstrom, B. R.; Ahmad, E., and Hartmann, D.: Cloud-Radiative Forcing and Climate: Results from the Earth Radiation Budget Experiment. Science, Vol. 243, pp. 57-63, January 1989.
Minnis, P.: Viewing Zenith Angle Dependence of Cloudiness Determined from Coincident GOES East and GOES West Data( size ~10 MB). Journal of Geophysical Research , Vol. 94, pp. 2303-2320, January 1989.
Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Barkstrom, B. R.; Ramanathan, V.; Cess, R. D., and Gibson, G. G.: Seasonal Variation of Cloud Radiative Forcing Derived from the Earth Radiation Budget Experiment. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 95, pp. 18687-18703, October 1990.
Minnis, P.; Young, D. F.; Sassen, K.; Alvarez, J. M., and Grund, C. J.: The 27-28 October 1986 FIRE IFO Case Study: Cirrus Parameter Relationships Derived from Satellite and Lidar Data. Monthly Weather Review, Vol. 118, pp. 2402 – 2425, November 1990.
Minnis, P.; Heck, P. W., and Harrison, E. F.: The 27-28 October 1986 FIRE IFO Case Study: Cloud Parameter Fields Derived from Satellite Data. Monthly Weather Review, Vol. 118, pp. 2426- 2446, November 1990.
Cahoon, D. R.; Levine, J. S.; Cofer III, W. R.; Miller, J. E.; Minnis, P.; Tenille, G. M.; Yip, T. W.; Heck, P. W., and Stocks, B. J.: The Great Chinese Fire of 1987: A View from Space. Global Biomass Burning: Atmospheric, Climate, and, Biospheric Implications, MIT Press, pp. 61-66, 1991.
Minnis, P.; Young, D. F., and Harrison, E. F.: Examination of the Relationship between Infrared Window Radiance and the Total Outgoing Longwave Flux Using Satellite Data. Journal of Climate, Vol. 4, pp. 1114-1133, October, 1991.
Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, E. F.; Gibson, G. G.; and Denn, F. M.: Orbital Analysis and Instrument Viewing Geometry Considerations for the Earth Observing System (EOS) Satellite. Astrodynamics, Advances in the Astronuatical Sciences, Vol. 76, pp. 1215-1227, 1991.
Minnis, P.; Heck, P. W.; Young, D. F.; Fairall, C. W., and Snider, J. B.: Stratocumulus Cloud Properties Derived from Simultaneous Satellite and Island-Based Instrumentation During FIRE, Journal of Applied Meteorology, Vol. 31, pp. 317-339, April 1992.
Betts, A. K.; Minnis, P.; Ridgway, W., and Young, D. F.: Integration of Satellite and Surface Data Using a Radiative-Convective Oceanic Boundary Layer Model, Journal of Applied Meteorology, Vol. 31, pp. 340-350, April 1992.
Baum, B. A.; Wielicki, B. A.; Minnis, P., and Parker, L.: Cloud Property Retrieval Using Merged HIRS and AVHRR Data. Journal of Applied Meteorology, Vol. 31, pp. 351-369, April 1992.
Cess, R. D.; Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Barkstrom, B. R.; Ramanathan, V., and Kwon, T. Y.: Interpretation of Seasonal Cloud-Climate Interaction Using Earth Radiation Budget Experiment Data. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 97, pp. 7613-7617, May 1992.
Takano, Y.; Liou, K.-N., and Minnis, P.: The Effects of Small Ice Crystals on Cirrus Infrared Radiative Properties. Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, pp. 1487-1493, August 1992.
Minnis, P.; Harrison, E. F.; Stowe, L. L.; Gibson, G. G.; Denn, F. M.; Doelling, D. R., and Smith Jr., W. L.: Radiative Climate Forcing by the Mt. Pinatubo Eruption. Science, Vol. 259, pp. 1411-1415, March 5, 1993.
Minnis, P.; Takano, Y., and Liou, K.-N.: Inference of Cirrus Cloud Properties Using Satellite-Observed Visible and Infrared Radiances, Part I: Parameterization of Radiance Fields. Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 50, pp. 1279-1304, May 1, 1993.
Minnis, P.; Heck, P. W., and Young, D. F.: Inference of Cirrus Cloud Properties Using Satellite-Observed Visible and Infrared Radiances, Part II: Verification of Theoretical Cirrus Radiative Properties. Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 50, pp. 1305-1322, May 1, 1993.
Wang, S.; Albrecht, B. A., and Minnis, P.: Regional Modeling of Marine Boundary Layer Clouds, Journal of Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 50, pp. 4022-4043, October 1, 1993.
Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Barkstrom, B. R., and Gibson, G. G.: Radiation Budget at the Top of the Atmosphere. Atlas of Satellite Observations Related to Global Change, Cambridge Univ. Press, Edited by R. J. Gurney, J. L. Foster, and C. L. Parkinson, pp.19-38, 1993.
Baum, B. A.; R. F. Arduini; B. A. Wielicki; P. Minnis; and S.-C. Tsay: Multilevel Cloud Retrieval Using Multispectral HIRS and AVHRR Data: Nighttime Oceanic Analysis. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 99, pp. 5499-5514, March 20, 1994.
Cess, R. D., M. H. Zhang, P. Minnis, L. Corsetti, E. F. Dutton, B. W. Forgan, D. P. Garber, W. L. Gates, J. J. Hack, E. F. Harrison, X. Jing, J. T. Kiehl, C. N. Long, J.-J. Morcrette, G. L. Potter, V. Ramanathan, B. Subasilar, C. H. Whitlock, D. F. Young, and Y. Zhou: Absorption of Solar Radiation by Clouds: Observations Versus Models.Science, Vol. 267, pp. 496-499, January 27, 1995.
Wang, P.-H., M. P. McCormick, P. Minnis, G. S. Kent, G. K. Yue, and K. M. Skeens: A Method for Estimating the Vertical Frequency of the SAGE II Opaque Cloud Frequency.Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 22, pp. 243-246, February 1, 1995.
Wang, P.-H., P. Minnis, and G. K. Yue: Extinction (1-mm) properties of high-altitude clouds from solar occultation measurements (1985-1990): Evidence of volcanic aerosol effect. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 100, pp. 3181-3199, February 20, 1995.
Minnis, P.; Smith, W. L., Jr.; Garber, D. P.; Ayers, J. K.; and Doelling, D. R.: Cloud Properties Derived From GOES-7 for the Spring 1994 ARM Intensive Observing Period Using Version 1.0.0 of the ARM Satellite Data Analysis Program. NASA RP 1366, August 1995, 59 pp.
Martin, G. M.; D. W. Johnson; D. P. Rogers; P. R. Jonas; P. Minnis, and D. Hegg: Observations of the Interaction between Cumulus Clouds and Warm Stratocumulus Clouds in the Marine Boundary Layer during ASTEX. Journal of Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 52, pp. 2902-2922, 15 August 1995.
Mace, G. G., D. O’C. Starr, T. P. Ackerman, and P. Minnis: Examination of Coupling Between an Upper Tropospheric Cloud System and Synoptic-Scale Dynamics from Wind Profiler and Radiosonde Data. Journal of Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 52, pp. 4094-4078, 1 December 1995.
Hansen, J.; Sato, M.; Ruedy, R.; Lacis, A.; Asamoah, K.; Borenstein, S.; Brown, E.; Cairns, B.; Caliri, G.; Campbell, M.; Curran, B.; De Castro, S.; Druyan, L.; Fox, M.; Johnson, C.; Lerner, J.; McCormick, M. P.; Minnis, P.; Morrison, A.; Pandolfo, L.; Ramberran, I.; Zaucker, F.; Robinson, M.; Russell, P.; Shah, K.; Stone, P; Tegen, I.; Thomason, L.; Wilder, J.; Wilson, H.: A Pinatubo Climate Modeling Investigation. “The Effects of Mt. Pinatubo Eruption on the Atmosphere and Climate”, NATO ASI Series Vol. I 42, “Global Environment Change”, Springer-Verlag, Edited by G. Fiocco, D. Fua, and G. Visconti, pp. 233-272, 1996.
Harrison, E. F.; Minnis, P.; Young, D. F.; Gibson, G. G.; Donaldson, J. L.; and Smith, O. C.: ERBE-Like Averaging to Monthly TOA (Subsystem 3). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume II: Geolocation, Calibration, and ERBE-Like Analyses (Subsystems 1-3)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 2, edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 85-119.
Baum, B. A.; Welch, R. M.; Minnis, P.; Stowe, L. L.; Coakley, J. A., Jr.; Titlow, J.; Tovinkere, V.; Heck, P. W.; Trepte, Q.; Doelling, D. R.; Mayor, S.; Berendes, T.; Han, Q.; Christopher, S. A.; Kuo, K.-S.; Penaloza, M.; Logar, A.; and Davis, P.: Imager Clear-Sky Determination and Cloud Detection (Subsystem 4.1). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume III: Cloud Analyses and Radiance Inversions (Subsystem 4)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 3,edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 43-82.
Baum, B. A.; Minnis, P.; Coakley, J. A., Jr.; Wielicki, B. A.; Menzel, P.; Titlow, J.; Tovinkere, V.; Heck, P. ; and Mayor, S.: Imager Cloud Height Determination (Subsystem 4.2). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume III: Cloud Analyses and Radiance Inversions (Subsystem 4)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 3, edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 83-134.
Minnis, P.; Kratz, D. P.; Coakley, J. A., Jr.; King, M. D.; Garber, D.; Heck, P.; Mayor, S.; Young, D. F. and Arduini, R.: Cloud Optical Property Retrieval (Subsystem 4.3). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume III: Cloud Analyses and Radiance Inversions (Subsystem 4)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 3,edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 135-176.
Young, D. F.; Harrison, E. F.; Wielicki, B. A.; Minnis, P.; Gibson, G. G.; Barkstrom, B. R.; Charlock, T. P.; Doelling, D. R.; Miller, A. J.; Smith, O. C.; and Stassi, J. C.: Time Interpolation and Synoptic Flux Computation for Single and Multiple Satellites (Subsytem 7.0). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume IV: Determination of Surface and Atmosphere Fluxes and Temporally and Spatially Averaged Products (Subsystems 5-12)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 4, edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 69-108.
Harrison, E. F.; Young, D. F.; Minnis, P; Gibson, G. G.; Cess, R. D.; Ramanathan, V.; Murray, T. D.; and Travers, D. J.: Monthly Regional TOA and Surface Radiation Budget (Subsystem 10.0). “Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Algorithm Theoretical Basis Document, Volume IV: Determination of Surface and Atmosphere Fluxes and Temporally and Spatially Averaged Products (Subsystems 5-12)”, NASA RP 1376 Vol. 4, edited by CERES Science Team, December, 1995, pp. 139-156.
Randall, D.; Albrecht, B.; Cox, S.; Johnson, D.; Minnis, P.; Rossow, W.; and Starr, D.: On FIRE at Ten. Advances in Geophysics, Vol. 38, pp. 37-177, 1996.
Toon, B.; Anderson, B.; Minnis, P.; Ackerman, T.; Jacob, D.; Miake-Lye, R.; Schwartz, S.; Tolbert, M.; Turco, R.; Starr, D.; Wiscombe, W.; and Laero, F.: Observations-Subsonic Aircraft: Contrail and Cloud Effects Special Study (SUCCESS) Workshop and White Paper Excerpts.NASA RP 1385, edited by A. M. Thompson, R. R. Friedl, and H. L. Wesoky, May, 1996, pp. 175-199.
Wang, P.-H.; Minnis, P.; McCormick, M. P.; Kent, G. S.; and Skeens, K. M.: A 6-Year Climatology of Cloud Occurrence Frequency From SAGE II Observations (1985-1990).Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 101, pp. 29,407-29,429, December 27, 1996.
Westphal, D. L.; Kinne, S.; Alvarez, J. M.; Benjamin, S. G.; Eberhard, W. L.; Heymsfield, A. J.; Kropfli, R. A.; Mace, G. G.; Matrosov, S. Y.; Melfi, S. H.; Minnis, P.; Pilewskie, P.; Snider, J. B.; Soden, B. J.; Starr, D. O’C.; Uttal, T.; and Young, D. F.: Initialization and Validation of a Simulation of Cirrus Using FIRE-II Data.Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 53, No. 23, 1996, pp.3397-3429.
Minnis, P.; Mayor, S.; Smith, W. L., Jr.: and Young, D. F., 1997: Asymmetry in the Diurnal Variation of Surface Albedo.IEEE Transactions on Geoscience and Remote Sensing, 35, 879-891.
Minnis, P.; Ayers, J. K.; and Weaver, S. P.: Surface-Based Observations of Contrail Occurrence Frequency Over the U.S., April 1993 – April 1994.NASA Reference Publication 1404, December, 81 pp., 1997.
Hansen, J.; Sato, M.; Ruedy, R.; Lacis, A.; Asamoah, K.; Beckford, K.; Borenstein, S.; Brown, E.; Cairns, B.; Carlson, B.; Curran, B.; de Castro, S.; Druyan, L.; Etwarro, P.; Ferede, T.; Fox, M.; Gaffen, D.; Glascoe, J.; Gordon, H.; Hollandsworth, S.; Jiang, X.; Johnson, C.; Lawrence, N.; Lean, J.; Lerner, J.; Lo, K.; Logan, J.; Luckett, A.; McCormick, M. P.; McPeters, R.; Miller, R.; Minnis, P.; Ramberran, I.; Russell, G.; Russell, P.; Stone, P; Tegen, I.; Thomas, S.; Thomason, L.; Thompson, A.; Wilder, J.; Willson, R.; and Zawodny, J.: Forcings and Chaos in Interannual to Decadal Climate Change.Journal of Geophysical Research., 102, November 27, 1997, pp. 25,679-25,720.
Lin, B.; Wileicki, B. A., Minnis, P.; and Rossow, W. B.: Estimation of Water Cloud Properties from Satellite Microwave and Optical Measurements in Oceanic Environments. I: Microwave Brightness Temperature Simulations. Journal of Geophysical Research, 103, February 27, 1998, pp. 3873-3886.
Lin, B.; Minnis, P., Wielicki, B. A.; Doelling, D. R.; Palikonda, R.; Young, D. F., and Uttal, T.: Estimation of Water Cloud Properties from Satellite Microwave and Optical Measurements in Oceanic Environments. II: Results.Journal of Geophysical Research, 103, February 27, 1998, pp. 3887-3905.
Minnis, P. and Smith, W. L., Jr.: Cloud and Radiative Fields Derived from GOES-8 During SUCCESS and the ARM-UAV Spring 1996 Flight Series. Geophys. Res. Ltrs., 25, April 15, 1998, pp.1113-1116.
Minnis, P.; Young, D. F.; Nguyen, L.; Garber, D. P.; Smith, W. L., Jr.; and Palikonda, R., 1998: Transformation of Contrails Into Cirrus Durring SUCCESS.Geophys. Res. Ltrs., 25, April 15, 1998, pp.1157-1160.
Young, D. F.; Minnis, P.; Baumgardner, D.; and Gerber, H.: Comparison of In Situ and Satellite-Derived Cloud Properties During SUCCESS.Geophys. Res. Ltrs., 25, April 15, 1998, pp.1125-1128.
Wang, P.; Minnis, P.; McCormick, M. P.; Kent, G. S.; Yue, G. K.; Young, D. F.; and Skeens, K. M.: A Study of the Vertical Structure of Tropical (20°S – 20°N) Optically Thin Clouds from SAGE II Observations. Atmospheric Research, 47-48, 1998, pp. 599-614.
Young, D. F.; Minnis, P.; Gibson, G. G.; Doelling, D. R.; and Wong, T., 1998:Temporal Interpolation Methods for the Clouds and Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) Experiment. J. Appl. Meteorol. , Vol. 37, 572-590.
Wielicki, B. A., Barkstrom, B. R., Baum, B. A., Charlock, T. P., Green, R. N., Kratz, D. P., Lee, R. B., Minnis, P.,Smith, G. L., Young, D. F., and the CERES Science Team, Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES): Algorithm Overview. IEEE Transactions on Geoscience and Remote Sensing, 36, July 1998, pp. 1127-1141.
Mace, G. G.; Ackerman, T. P.; Minnis, P.; and Young, D. F.: Cirrus Layer Microphysical Properties Derived From Surface-Based Millimeter Radar and Infrared Interferometer Data. J. Geophys. Res., Vol. 103, 23,207-23216, 1998.
Minnis, P.; Garber, D. P.; Young, D. F.; Arduini, R. F.; and Takano, Y.: Parameterization of Reflectance and Effective Emittance for Satellite Remote Sensing of Cloud Properties. Journal of Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 55, 3313-3339, 1998.
Rinsland, C. P.; Gunson, M. R.; Wang, P.; Arduini, R. F.; Baum, B. A.; Minnis, P.; Goldman, A.; Abrams, M. C.; Zander, R.; Mahieu;, Salawitch, R. J.; Michelsen, H. A.; Irion, F. W.; and Newchurch, M. J.: ATMOS/ATLAS 3 Infrared Profile Measurments of Trace Gases in the Tropical Upper Troposphere: Cirrus Microphysical Properties and Trace Gas Enhancements from Rapid, Deep Convective Transport. J. Quant. Spectros. Rad. Transfer, Vol. 60, 903-919, 1998.
Rinsland, C. P.; Gunson, M. R.; Wang, P.; Arduini, R. F.; Baum, B. A.; Minnis, P.; Goldman, A.; Abrams, M. C.; Zander, R.; Mahieu;, Salawitch, R. J.; Michelsen, H. A.; Irion, F. W.; and Newchurch, M. J.: ATMOS/ATLAS 3 Infrared Profile Measurments of Clouds in the Tropical Upper Troposphere: Cirrus Microphysical Properties and Trace Gas Enhancements from Rapid, Deep Convective Transport. J. Quant. Spectros. Rad. Transfer, Vol. 60, 891-901, 1998.
Jensen, E. J.; Ackerman, A. S.; Stevens, D. E.; Toon, O. B.; and Minnis, P., 1998: Spreading and growth of contrails in a sheared environment. J. Geophys. Res., Vol. 103, pp 31, 557-587, 1998.
Fahey, D. W., U. Schumann, S. Akerman, P. Artaxo, O. Boucher, M. Y. Danilin, B. Karcher, P. Minnis, T. Nakajima, and O. B. Toon, 1999: Aviation Produced Aerosols and Cloudiness, Chapter 3 of IPCC Special Report: Aviation and the Global Atmosphere., Cambridge University Press, 65-120.
Minnis, P.; U. Schumann, D. R. Doelling, K. M. Gierens, and D. W. Fahey, 1999: Global Distribution of Contrail Radiative Forcing,Geophys. Res. Ltrs., Vol. 26, 1853-1856.
Meerkötter, R.; Schumann, U.; Doelling, D. R.; Minnis, P.; Nakajima, T.; and Tsushima, Y., 1999: Radiative Forcing by Contrails, Annales Geophysicae, Vol. 17, 1070-1084.
Curry, J. A.; Hobbs, P.; King, M. D.; Randall, D. A.; Minnis, P.; Uttal, T.; Isaac, G. A.; Pinto, J. O. et al, 2000: FIRE Arctic Clouds Experiment. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 81, 5-29.
Dong, X., P. Minnis, T. P. Ackerman, E. E. Clothiaux, G. G. Mace, R. N. Long, and J. C. Liljegren, 2000: A 25-month Database of Stratus Cloud Properties Generated from Ground-Based Measurements at the ARM SGP Site. J. Geophys. Res., 105, 4529-4537.
Valero, F. P. J., P. Minnis, S. K. Pope, A. Bucholtz, B. C. Bush, D. R. Doelling, W. L. Smith, Jr., and X. Dong, 2000: The absorption of solar radiation by the atmosphere as determined using consistent satellite, aircraft, and surface data during the ARM Enhanced Short-Wave Experiment (ARESE). J. Geophys. Res., 105, 4743-4758.
Minnis, P. and M. M. Khaiyer, 2000: Anisotropy of Land Surface Skin Temperature Derived from Satellite Data. J. Appl. Meteorol., 39, 1117-1129.
Lin, B. and P. Minnis, 2000: Temporal variations of land surface microwave emissivities over the ARM Southern Great Plains Site. J. Appl. Meteorol., 39, 1103-1116.
Stephens, G. L., R.G. Ellingson, J. Vitko Jr, W. Bolton, T.P. Tooman, F.P.J. Valero, P..Minnis, P. Pilewskie, G.S. Phipps, S. Sekelsy, J.R. Carswell, S.D. Miller, A. Benedetti, R.B. McCoy, R.F. McCoy, Jr, A. Lederbuhr, and R. Bambha, 2000: The Department of Energy’s Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Unmanned Aerospace Vehicle (UAV) Program, Bull. Am. Meteor. Soc., 81, 2915-2937.
Nordeen, M. L., P. Minnis, D. R. Doelling, D. Pethick, and L. Nguyen, 2001: Satellite observations of cloud plumes generated by Nauru, Geophys. Res. Lett., 28, 631-634.
Lin, B., P. Minnis, A. Fan, J. A. Curry, and H. Gerber, 2001: Comparison of cloud liquid water paths derived from in situ and microwave radiometer data taken during the SHEBA/FIREACE. Geophys. Res. Lett., 28, 975-978.
Duda, D. P., P. Minnis, and L. Nguyen, 2001: Estimates of cloud radiative forcing in contrail clusters using GOES imagery. J. Geophys. Res., 106, 4927-4937.
Minnis, P., V. Chakrapani, D. R. Doelling, L. Nguyen, R. Palikonda, D. A. Spangenberg, T. Uttal, R. F. Arduini, and M. Shupe, 2001: Cloud coverage during FIRE ACE derived from AVHRR Data. J. Geophys. Res., 106, 15,215-15,233.
Doelling, D. R., P. Minnis, D. A. Spangenberg, V. Chakrapani, A. Mahesh, S. K. Pope, and F. P. J. Valero, 2001: Cloud Radiative Forcing During FIRE ACE Derived from AVHRR Data. J. Geophys. Res., 106, 15,279-15,296.
Dong, X., G. G. Mace, P. Minnis, and D. F. Young, 2001: Arctic stratus cloud properties and their impact on the surface radiation budget; Selected cases from FIRE ACE. J. Geophys. Res., 106, 15,297-15,312.
Wang, P.-H., R. E. Viega, L. B. Vann, P. Minnis, and G. S. Kent, 2001:i A further study of the method for estimation of SAGE II cloud occurrence. J. Geophys. Res. 106, 12,603-12613.
Garreaud, R. D., J. Rutllant, J. Quintana, J. Carrasco, and P. Minnis, 2001: CIMAR-5: A snapshot of the lower troposphere over the subtropical southeast Pacific. Bull. Amer. Meteorol. Soc., 92, 2193-2208.
Duda, D. P. and P. Minnis, 2002: Observations of aircraft dissipation trails from GOES. Mon. Wea. Rev., 130, 398-406.
Minnis, P., 2002: Satellite Remote Sensing of Cirrus, Chapter 7 in Cirrus, Oxford University Press, David K. Lynch, K. Sassen, D. O’C. Starr, and G. Stephens, Editors, pp. 147-167.
Lynch, D. K., K. Sassen, A. Del Genio, A. Heymsfield, P. Minnis, M. Platt, M. Quante, U. Schumann, and H. Sundqvist, 2002: Cirrus: The Future. Chapter 21 in Cirrus, Oxford University Press, David K. Lynch, K. Sassen, D. O’C. Starr, and G. Stephens, Editors, pp. 449-455.
Pope, S. K., F. P. J. Valero, W. D. Collins, and P. Minnis, 2001: Comparison of SCARAB, GOES-8, aircraft, and surface observations of the absorption of solar radiation by clouds. J. Geophys. Res., 107 (D11), 10.1029/20001JD000672.
Wang, P.-H., P. Minnis, B. A. Wielicki, T. Wong, and L. B. Vann, 2002: Satellite observation of long-term changes in tropical cloud and outgoing longwave radiation from 1985 to 1998. Geophys. Res. Lett., 29, 37-1 – 37-4, 10.1029/2001GL04264.
Minnis, P., L. Nguyen, D. R. Doelling, D. F. Young, W. F. Miller, and D. P. Kratz, 2002: Rapid calibration of operational and research meteorological satellite imagers, Part I: Evaluation of research satellite visible channels as references. J. Atmos. Oceanic Technol., 19, 1233-1249.
Minnis, P., L. Nguyen, D. R. Doelling, D. F. Young, W. F. Miller, and D. P. Kratz, 2002: Rapid calibration of operational and research meteorological satellite imagers, Part II: Comparison of infrared channels. J. Atmos. Oceanic Technol., 19, 1250-1266.
Dong, X., P. Minnis, G. G. Mace, W. L. Smith, Jr., M. Poellot, R. T. Marchand, and A. D. Rapp, 2002: Comparison of stratus cloud properties deduced from surface, GOES, and aircraft data during the March 2000 ARM Cloud IOP. J. Atmos. Sci., 59, 3256-3284.
Chepfer, H., P. Minnis, D. F. Young, L. Nguyen, and R. F. Arduini, 2002: Estimation of cirrus cloud effective ice crystal shapes using visible reflectances from dual-satellite measurements. J. Geophys. Res., 107 (D23), 10.1029/2000JD000240.
Minnis, P., 2002: Contrails. Encyclopedia of Atmospheric Sciences, Academic Press, London, J. Holton, J. Pyle, and J. Curry, Editors, pp. 509-520.
Wang, P., P. Minnis, B. A. Wielicki, T. Wong, R. D. Cess, M. Zhang, L. B. Vann, and G. S. Kent, 2003: Characteristics of the 1997/98 El Nino cloud distributions from SAGE II observations. J. Geophys. Res., 108 (D1), 10.1029/2002JD002501.
Loeb, N. G., N. Manalo-Smith, S. Kato, W. F. Miller, S. Gupta, P. Minnis, and B. A. Wielicki, 2003: Angular distribution models for top-of-atmosphere radiative flux estimation from the Clouds and the Earths Radiant Energy System instrument on the Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission satellite. Part I: Methodology. J. Appl. Meteorol., 42, 240-265.
Ho, S.-P., B. Lin, P. Minnis, and T.-F. Fan, 2003: Estimation of cloud vertical structure and water amount over tropical oceans using VIRS and TMI data. J. Geophys. Res., 108 (D14), 4419, 10.1029/2002JD003298, 25 July 2003.
Minnis, P., J. K. Ayers, M. L. Nordeen, and S. P. Weaver, 2003: Contrail frequency over the United States from surface observations. J. Climate, 16, 3447-3462.
Lin, B., P. Minnis, and A. Fan, 2003: Cloud liquid water path variations with temperature observed during the Surface Heat Budget of the Arctic Ocean (SHEBA) experiment. J. Geophys. Res., 108, 0.1029/2002JD002851.
Minnis, P., J. K. Ayers, R. Palikonda, and D. N. Phan, 2004: Contrails, cirrus trends, and climate. J. Climate, 17, 1671-1685.
Duda, D. P., P. Minnis, L. Nguyen, and R. Palikonda, 2004: A case study of the development of contrail clusters over the Great Lakes. J. Atmos. Sci., 61, 1132-1146.
Minnis, P., A. V. Gambheer, and D. R. Doelling, 2004: Azimuthal anisotropy of longwave and infrared window radiances from CERES TRMM and Terra data. J. Geophys. Res., 109, D08202,doi:10.1029/2003JD004471.
Smith, G. L., B. A. Wielicki, B. R. Barkstrom, R. B. Lee, K. J. Priestley, T. P. Charlock, P. Minnis, D. P. Kratz, and N. Loeb, 2004: Clouds and Earth Radiant Energy System (CERES): An overview. Adv. Space Res., 33, 1125-1131.
Sherwood, S. C., J.-H. Chae, P. Minnis, and M. McGill, 2004: Underestimation of deep convective cloud tops by thermal imagery. Geophys. Res. Lett., 31 (11), 10.1029/2004GL019699.
Min, Q, P. Minnis, and M. M. Khaiyer, 2004: Comparison of cirrus optical depths from GOES-8 and surface measurements. J. Geophys. Res., 109, No. D15, D15207 10.1029/2003JD004390, August 12.
Sherwood, S. C., P. Minnis, and M. McGill, 2004: Deep convective cloud top heights and their thermodynamic control during CRYSTAL-FACE. J. Geophys. Res., 109, No. D15, D15207, 10.1029/2004JD004811.
Mace, G. G., Y. Zhang, S. Platnick, M. D. King, P. Minnis, and P. Yang, 2005: Evaluation of cirrus cloud properties from MODIS radiances using cloud properties derived from ground-based data collected at the ARM SGP site. J. Appl. Meteorol., 44,221-240.
Pyatt, B. A. Albrecht, C. Fairall, J. E. Hare, N. Bond, P. Minnis, and J. K. Ayers, 2005: Evolution of marine boundary layer structure across the cold tongue ITCZ complex. J. Climate., 15, 737-753.
Huang, J., P. Minnis, B. Lin, Y. Yi, M. M. Khaiyer, R. F. Arduini, and G. G. Mace, 2005: Advanced retrievals of multilayered cloud properties using multi-sensor and multi-spectral measurements. J. Geophys. Res., 110,D15S18.
Wielicki, B. A., T. Wong, N. Loeb, P. Minnis, K. Priestley, and R. Kandel, 2005: Changes in Earths albedo measured by satellites. Science, 308, 825.
Zhang, M. H., W. Y. Lin, S. A. Klein, J. T. Bacmeister, S. Bony, R. T. Cederwall, A. D. Del Genio, J. J. Hack, N. G. Loeb, U. Lohmann, P. Minnis, I. Musat, R. Pincus, P. Stier, M. J. Suarez, M. J. Webb, J. B. Wu, S. C. Xie, M. -S. Yao, and J. H. Zhang, 2005: Comparing clouds and their seasonal variations in 10 atmospheric general circulation model with satellite measurements. J. Geophys. Res., 110,10.1029/2004JD005021.
Ignatov, A., P. Minnis, N. Loeb, B. Wielicki, W. Miller, S. Sun-Mack, D. Tanre, L. Remer, I. Laszlo, and E. Geier, 2004: Two MODIS aerosol products over ocean on the Terra and Aqua CERES SSF datasets. J. Atmos Sci.,62, 1008-1031.
Dong, X., P. Minnis, and B. Xi, 2005: A climatology of midlatitude continental clouds from the ARM SGP Central Facility: Part I: Low-level cloud macrophysical, microphysical and radiative properties. J. Climate, 18, 1391-1410.
Minnis, P., 2005: Response to comment on Contrails, Cirrus Trends, and Climate. J. Climate, 18, 2783-2784.
Garrett, T. J., B. C. Navarro, C. H. Twohy, E. J. Jensen, D. G. Baumgardner, P. T. Bui, H. Gerber, R. L. Hermann, A. J. Heymsfield, P. Lawson, P. Minnis, L. Nguyen, M. Poellot, S. K. Pope, F. P. J. Valero, and E. M. Weinstock, 2005: Evolution of a Florida cirrus anvil. J. Atmos. Sci. 62, 2352-2372.
Chepfer, H., V. Noel, P. Minnis, D. Baumgardner, L. Nguyen, G. Raga, M. J. McGill, and P. Yang, 2005: Particle habit in tropical ice clouds during CRYSTAL-FACE: Comparison of two remote sensing techniques with in situ observations. J. Geophys. Res., 110, D16204, 10.1029/2004JD005455.
Minnis, P., R. Palikonda, B. J. Walter, J. K. Ayers, and H. Mannstein, 2005: Contrail properties over the eastern North Pacific from AVHRR data. Meteorol. Z., 14, 515-523. (For a reprint, please contact p.minnis@nasa.gov)
Duda, D. P., P. Minnis, D. P. Garber, and R. Palikonda, 2005: CONUS contrail frequency and coverage estimated from RUC and flight track data.Meteorol. Z., 14, 537-548. (For a reprint, please contact p.minnis@nasa.gov)
Garber, D., P. Minnis, and P. K. Costulis, 2005: A USA commercial flight track database for upper tropospheric aircraft emission studies over the USA and southern Canada. Meteorol. Z., 14, 445-452. (For a reprint, please contact p.minnis@nasa.gov)
Palikonda, R., P. Minnis, D. P. Duda, and H. Mannstein, 2005: Contrail coverage over the United States of America during 2001 derived from AVHRR data.Meteorol. Z., 14, 515-523. (For a reprint, please contact p.minnis@nasa.gov)
Hansen, J., M. Sato, R. Ruedy, L. Nazarenko, A. Lacis, G. A. Schmidt, G. Russell, I. Aleinov, M. Bauer, S. Bauer, N. Bell, B. Cairns, V. Canuto, M. Chandler, Y, Cheng, A. Del Genio, G. Feluvegi, E. Fleming, A. Friend, T. Hall, C. Jackman, M. Kelley, N. Kiang, D. Koch, J. Lean, J. Lerner, K. Lo, S. Menon, R. Miller, P. Minnis, T. Novakov, V. Oinas, Ja. Perlwitz, Ju. Perlwitz, D. Rind, D. Romanou, D. Shindell, P. Stone, S. Sun, N. Tausnev, D. Thresher, B. Wielicki, T. Wong, M. Yao, and S. Zhang, 2005: Efficacy of climate forcings. J. Geophys. Res., 110, D18104, 10.1029/2005JD005776. (Note: Manuscript is ~21MB)
Zhao, T. X.-P., I. Laslo, P. Minnis, and L. Remer, 2005: Comparison and analysis of two aerosol retrievals over the ocean in Terra/CERES-MODIS Single Scanner Footprint (SSF) data: Part I – Global evaluation .J. Geophys. Res., 110, D21, D21209, 10.1029/2005JD005851.
Zhao, T. X.-P., I. Laslo, P. Minnis, and L. Remer, 2005: Comparison and analysis of two aerosol retrievals over the ocean in Terra/CERES-MODIS Single Scanner Footprint (SSF) data: Part II – Regional evaluation. J. Geophys. Res., 110, D21, D21209, doi:10.1029/2005JD005852.
Minnis, P., Y. Yi, J. Huang, and J. K. Ayers, 2005: Relationships between radiosonde and RUC-2 meteorological conditions and cloud occurrence determined from ARM data. J. Geophys. Res., 110, D23204, doi:10.1029/2005JD006005.
Sharon, T. M., B. A. Albrecht, H. H. Johnson, P. Minnis, M. M. Khaiyer, T. M. Van Reken, J. Seinfeld, and R. Flagan, 2006: Aerosol and cloud microphysical characteristics of rifts and gradients in maritime stratocumulus clouds. J. Atmos. Sci. 63 , 983-997.
Dong, X., B. Xi, P. Minnis, and C. N. Long, 2006: A climatology of midlatitude continental clouds from the ARM SGP Central Facility: Part II: Cloud fraction and radiative forcing. J. Climate, 19, 1765-1783.
Huang, J., P. Minnis, B. Lin, T. Wang, Y. Yi, Y. Hu, S. Sun-Mack, and K. Ayers, 2006: Possible influences of Asian dust aerosols on cloud properties and radiative forcing observed from MODIS and CERES. Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L06824, doi:10.1029/2005GL024724.
Mace, G. G., S. Benson, K. L. Sonntag, S. Kato, Q. Min, P. Minnis, C. H. Twohy, M. Poellot, X. Dong, C. Long, Q. Zhang, and D. R. Doelling, 2006: Cloud radiative forcing at the ARM climate research facility: Part I. Technique, validation, and comparison to satellite-derived quantities. J. Geophys. Res., 111, 10.1029/2005JD005921.
Garrett, T. J., J. Dean-Day, C. Liu, B. K. Barnett, G. G. Mace, D. G. Baumgardner, C. R. Webster, T. P. Bui, W. G. Read, and P. Minnis, 2006: Convective formation of pileus near the tropopause. Atmos. Chem., & Phys., 6, 1185-1200.
Ignatov, A., P. Minnis, W. Miller, B. Wielicki, and L. Remer, 2006: Consistency of global MODIS aerosol optical depths over ocean on Terra and Aqua CERES SSF datasets. J. Geophys. Res., 111, D14202, doi:10.1029/2005JD006645.
Kato, S., N. G. Loeb, P. Minnis, J. A. Francis, T. P. Charlock, D. Rutan, E. E. Clouthiaux, and S. Sun-Mack, 2006: Seasonal and interannual variations of top-of-atmosphere irradiance and cloud cover over polar regions derived from the CERES data set. Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L19804, 10.1029/2006GL026685.
Huang, J., B. Lin, P. Minnis, T. Wang, X. Wang, Y. Hu, , Y. Yi, and J. K. Ayers, 2006: Satellite-based assessment of possible dust aerosols semi-direct effect on cloud water path over east Asia. Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L19802, 10.1029/2006GL026561.
Huang, J., P. Minnis, B. Lin, Y. Yi, T.-F. Fan, S. Sun-Mack, and J. K. Ayers, 2006: Determination of ice water path in ice-over-water cloud systems using combined MODIS and AMSR-E measurements .Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L21801, 10.1029/2006GL027038.
Dong, X., B. Xi, and P. Minnis, 2006: Observational evidence of changes in water vapor, clouds, and radiation at the ARM SGP site. Geophys. Res. Lett., 33, L19818, 10.1029/2006GL027132.
Lin, B., B. A. Wielicki, P. Minnis, L. Chambers, K. Xu, Y. Hu, and A. Fan, 2006: The effect of environmental conditions on tropical deep convective systems observed from the TRMM satellite. J. Climate, 19, 5745-5761.
Chiriaco, M., H. Chepfer, P. Minnis, M. Haeffelin, S. Platnick, D. Baumgardner, P. Dubuisson, M. McGill, V. Noel, J. Pelon, D. Spangenberg, S. Sun-Mack, and G. Wind, 2006: Comparison of CALIPSO-like, LaRC, and MODIS retrievals of ice cloud properties over SIRTA in France and Florida during CRYSTAL-FACE. In press, J. Appl. Meteorol. Climatol., 43, .
Chepfer, H., P. Minnis, P. Dubuisson, M. Chiriaco, S. Sun-Mack, and E. D. Riviere, 2007: Nitric acid particles in cold thick ice clouds observed at global scale: Link with lightning, temperature, and upper tropospheric water vapor. J. Geophys. Res., 112, 10.1029/2005JD006602.
Verlinde, H., J. Y. Harrington, G. M. McFarquhar, V. T. Yannuzzi, A. Avramov, S. Greenberg, N. Johnson, G. Zhang, M. R. Poellot, J. H. Mather, D. D. Turner, E. W. Eloranta, B. D. Zak, A. J. Prenni, J. S. Daniel, G. L. Kok, D. C. Tobin, R. Holz, K. Sassen, D. Spangenberg, P. Minnis, T. P. Tooman, M. D. Ivey, S. J. Richarson, C. P. Bahrmann, P. J. DeMott, A. J. Heymsfield, and R. Scholfield, 2007: The Mixed-Phase Arctic Cloud Experiment (M-PACE). Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc., 88, 205-221.
Minnis, P., J. Huang, B. Lin, Y. Yi, R. F. Arduini, T.-F. Fan, J. K. Ayers, and G. G. Mace, 2007: Ice cloud properties in ice-over-water cloud systems using Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission (TRMM) visible and infrared scanner and TRMM Microwave imager data. J. Geophys. Res., 112, D06206, doi:10.1029/2006JD007626.
Comstock, J. M., R. dEntremont, D. DeSlover, G. G. Mace, S. Y. Matrosov, S. A. McFarlane, P. Minnis, D. Mitchell, K. Sassen, M. D. Shupe, D. D. Turner, and Z. Wang, 2007: An intercomparison of microphysical retrieval algorithms for upper tropospheric ice clouds. Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc., 88, 191-204.
Turner, D. D., A. M. Vogelmann, R. Austin, J. C. Barnerd, K. Cady-Pereira, C. Chiu, S. A. Clough, C. Flynn, M. M. Khaiyer, J. Liljegren, K. Johnson, B. Lin, C. Long, A. Marshak, S. Y. Matrosov, S. McFarlane, M. Miller, Q. Min, P. Minnis, W. OHirok, Z. Wang, and W. Wiscombe, 2007: Optically thin liquid water clouds: Their importance and our challenge. Bull. Am.Meteorol. Soc., 88, 177-190.
Mecikalski, J. R., W. F. Feltz, J. J. Murray, D. B. Johnson, K. M. Bedka, S. M. Bedka, A. J. Wimmers, M. Pavlonis, T. A. Berendes, J. Haggerty, P. Minnis, B. Bernstein, and E., Williams, 2007: Aviation Applications for satellite-based observations of cloud properties, convection initiation, in-flight icing, turbulence and volcanic ash. In press, Bull. Amer. Meteor. Soc.
Minnis, P., 2007: Contrails. Our Changing Planet: A View from Space, Cambridge Publishing, London, UK, R. Williams and K. Partington, Eds., in press.
Spangenberg, D. A., P. Minnis, M. D. Shupe, M. R. Poellot, and Z. Wang, 2007: Mixed-phase cloud detection over the Atmospheric Radiation Measurmeent North Slope of Alaska site from MODIS 6.7 – 12.0 µm data. Submitted to J. Atmos. Oceanic Technol.
Huang, J., P. Minnis, Y. Yi, Y. Hu, Q. Tang, X. Wang, Z. Lin, K. Ayers, C. Trepte, and D. Winker, 2007: Summer dust aerosols detected from the CALIPSO satellite over the Tibetan Plateau. Geophys. Res. Lett., 34, L18805, doi:10.1029/2007GL029938.
Wang, H., R.T. Pinker, P. Minnis, and M.M. Khaiyer, 2007: Experiments with cloud properties: Impact on surface radiative fluxes. Accepted, J. Atmos Oceanic Technol.
Dong, X., P. Minnis, B. Xi, S. Sun-Mack, and Y. Chen, 2008: Comparison of CERES-MODIS stratus cloud properties with ground-based measurements at the DOE ARM Southern Great Plains site. In press, J. Geophys. Res., 10.1029/2007JD008438.


Pfffff – only one hundred and fifty three science papers, eh, working with hundreds of brilliant qualified researchers, using the finest equipment in the world…  what could HE possibly know? What a fly-by-night!

And YOU?

The “margin of error” the debunkers seem to want to lend to reality, to back their contentions, appears even larger and more encompassing than the actual situation. Characteristic of other forms that the pedagogic patronizing of the debunkers can take is in the typically flippantly entitled entry “fun With Math”.

Sadly, this isn’t there…

There, a “correspondent”, who takes the name BEE, puts up the pose of “proving” that “there is simply no way physically for anything sprayed at the height at which contrails (or supposed chemtrails) are observed to reach any kind of concentration on the ground which would have any effect on people whatsoever”. He begins by considering a “worst case scenario” of a jet hovering overhead, at various heights, dumping different amounts of material, with wind going at various speeds. Among other things, though, he assumes a “source rate” for the spraying of “63 billion micrograms per second”. This works out to 63,000 grams/second, or 140 lbs./second. That’s almost 8 tons per minute! If BEE is willing to be so unreliable in even this early part of the “explanation”, there is no reason to trust him in what he says later.

Why? Is it too much for you? ACTUALLY, a Boeing 747 can precipitate two hundred and fifty tons of ice in a minute when flying through supersaturated air. And here it is – doing just that:

Boeing 747 in supersaturated air

Boeing 747 in supersaturated air

His conclusions are no less questionable.

What? Than yours?

Proceeding from a supposed height, for the jet, of from 2 to 2000 meters above the ground, he reels off supposed “maximum concentrations” for the sprayed substance. He goes from 19.3 billion micrograms/cubic meter to .75 micrograms/cubic meter. The highest value is related to a situation for the plane 2 meters in the air, the lowest value, for one 2000 meters high. He evidently wants to “dramatically demonstrate” that the results from a “realistic” situation are very, very low. An eminent problem with that, however, is that, not only does BEE look at varying heights for the jet, for each jet, there is also a different distance downwind looked at. The jet 2 meters in the air has a “maximum concentration” 60 meters downwind quoted, a jet 100 meters high has a value at 15,000 meters downwind given, and for the jet at 2000 meters, the concentration at 3.5 billion meters, or 2.2 million miles, downwind! It is unlikely, if not completely impossible, that material would drift for 2.2 million miles over the earth, before coming to rest.


Not true at all. Spores are found at the poles. Who’s to say they haven’t circled the Earth a hundred times? The ice crystals in such trails, initially at least, are smaller than these pollen grains…

What is more, for all the insistence, by BEE, that winds would dissipate chemtrail material, that has never been observed! They spread and combine with other chemtrails, but they have never been seen to be blown away by winds!

Huh. They are laid in the stratosphere – you know, the place with jet streams of up to 150 mph. It is motionless extremely rarely! It is MADE UP of separate “winds”!

In fact, it is their tendency to stay in one place, unchanged, except for spreading, for hours on end, which was one thing which brought them to the public’s attention. If the purpose of the chemtrails was to stay in one place and, at least, physically affect the environment, such as causing a drought, or even form clouds and then let rainwater wash it down to the soil, contaminating people that way, then they are, apparently, doing exactly what was desired of them.

See above! Once more you whole case depends on making up a different “science” from that of scientists. But it is they who are qualified and experienced in this, not you.

How easy it is for the chemtrail defenders

I think “people who hate ignorant liars” would be the way I would put it.

they shape up as little more than that! – to “exonerate” chemtrails of things no one said they were doing.

None of us are “exonerating” chemtrails, any more than we are “exonerating” ZEUS. There is no proof of their existence here…

For that matter, too, all the supposedly legitimate physical calculations BEE presumably performed

Yes. “Talking down” more physics you don’t understand, are you?

does not prove that there aren’t substances which can affect, or even harm, people at concentrations of only about 1 microgram/cubic meter! Allergens work at very small concentrations, pathogens can be dangerous at those low levels, and various poisonous gases can be potent at even lower concentrations!

And what allergens, pathogens, and poisonous gases are in these trails?

Withholding important information can be as crucial as misrepresenting information, in promoting a fraudulent proposal!

Bearing false witness is a cardinal sin which will put you straight to Hell.

Add the fact that, on a day of regular chemtrailing, as many as 30 or more trails can be left in any affected area of sky, and there is a likelihood that huge amounts of dangerous material will be released.

But the trails are ICE, and you haven’t proved otherwise! And even if they weren’t made of ice, I really do not think you understand how large the Earth is….

And where displays of contempt and presumed exercises in sophistry do not succeed

Your work here IS an exercise in sophistry. The only thing that has distinguished you so far from the average chemtrailer is your slightly better spelling, although “cumulous” is actually spelt “cumulus”, and an apostrophe is this ” ‘ ” (I removed yours!).

the debunkers appear to rely on out and out fraud!

Seeing as a characteristic of “chemtrailer” behavior IS fraud (and I can quote many examples of it), you’re now beginning to annoy me.

A favored technique, for example, is saying that chemtrails are nothing more than normal contrails, then going through elaborate proofs that contrails are not unusual or dangerous and, because contrails are not unusual or dangerous – which, in truth, has not been proved! – then, what chemtrail observers complain about can’t be unusual or dangerous! Just about every chemtrail debunker site has at least one page devoted to “examining” and “explaining” contrails, then diffidently insisting that that’s all that chemtrails are – using even less proof than the chemtrail opposers use for their statements! – and “concluding” that, therefore, chemtrails do not exist, and chemtrail opposers are just chasing falsities.

They are talking about established atmospheric science. Science is something that has been confirmed and tested by unknown others, so solidly that any predictions it is possible to make from the data prove to be correct as well. It is a pity that you cannot understand this.

The facts of chemtrails, however, do not bear out debunkers’ insistences.

I don’t wish to repeat the word “liar”, but draw your attention to the fact that you have yet to produce a fact.

Among other things, the references to chemtrails began only around 1997. There are no references to unusual, persistent cloud trails before that date. Contrails didn’t suddenly start to become long-lived under certain circumstances only after 1997. And it unlikely that people will have suddenly started to become aware of something as obvious, and apparently pernicious, as vapor trails that persist for hours, then spread and coalesce into sun blocking cloud decks only in 1997. The very fact that no complaints of long, spreading contrails before 1997 is sufficient to establish that chemtrails must be real, and not normal contrails.

What you say here is an out-and-out LIE. The first persistent contrail was recorded about 1922, they were photographed frequently during WW2, and feature in newspaper reports throughout the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties. Hundreds of scientific papers have been written on them since the first in 1953.

Tellingly, though, and apparently not coincidental at all, is the fact that, in October 1997, the system of reporting visibility date, from the National Climatic Data Center, was abruptly reduced from the then standard maximum of 40 miles, to only 10 miles. To reduce visibility information that way only endangers such things as aerial navigation! To do so peremptorily, in that manner, was utterly incompatible with any consideration of protecting the welfare of citizens.

It was a consequence of improved radar, perhaps!

What it does seem geared for, however – what seems more important than the interests of the public! – is keeping the government from having to acknowledge that there was something out there that long range data would need them to report! Something, too, that seems likely to be nothing less than a hindrance to long-range visibility, as well. There was something out there that the government didn’t want the people to know about. But the indications that chemtrails are real go beyond even that.

And this evidence is – where?

Debunkers, for example, could try to “argue” that, on days when chemtrails don’t appear, it’s because the weather conditions at the planes’ height don’t permit them. The planes are there, they would demand, but the peculiar conditions that turned innocent contrails into extended lines in the sky simply weren’t present.

We’ve covered all this. It’s atmospheric physics. Just pick up a textbook!

But, even at the height at which chemtrails are apparently laid, planes can be seen and heard slightly. Because they take a long time passing through the sky, that high up, they form a low rumble that can persist for many minutes. On the days when chemtrails do not appear, neither the bright specks that the planes appear as, nor the low rumble are heard. More than that, not even normal contrails – which should form under just about any condition! – are not present. When chemtrails do not form high in the sky, it is because the planes that form them are not up there. The forming of chemtrails, then, is related more to the presence of special planes high up that particular day, and not, evidently, certain conditions affecting planes that are, putatively, present every day.

This is also atmospheric physics. The sound of the aircraft is refracted both by differing layer densities, headings and velocities. Under certain conditions it may not reach the ground. Planes not laying contrails at all (quite possible in relatively warm, dry air), are quite simply, not seen.

A phenomenon that chemtrail followers also point to to indicate the suspicious nature of the trails is what is termed the “on and off switch”. Often, when chemtrails appear overhead, there will be a space in the trail, where what seems to be aerial spraying was turned off, for a time, then turned back on. This does not happen, ever, for conventional contrails. Planes forming the short tails of contrail fog behind them do not go through periods when the cloud will disappear; the clouds themselves, even though they last for a short time, do not show spaces in them. Debunkers,unsurprisingly, dismiss these claims, insisting that there is nothing in the breaks in chemtrails that indicate anything out of what they term the usual.

You have already demonstrated that you cannot distinguish between the stratosphere and the troposphere. Were you able to, you would know that they are right and you are wrong. The stratosphere is invisibly layered with regions of different humidities.

Tellingly, though, actual addresses of the issue of the “on off switch” are rare on debunker websites. In fact, only one site, www22.brinkster.com/Seawana/Conspiracies/Chemtrails.asp, which boasts the title, “The Way of the Dodo”, actually devotes any real space to an attempted “explanation” of chemtrail breaks. In characteristically contemptuous and insulting fashion, the section begins, “Ah yes. These rare photos are a favorite among the believers.” The originator of the site, who identifies himself as Skip Ernst, describes “the neanderthals running” spray operations as having “mistakenly turned off the spray for a few moments”. “Can you believe the government has hired a bunch of bumbling idiots to perform their top secret operations?”, Mr. Ernst adds, mockingly. He posits that the breaks are caused by jets having “simply passed through a pocket of air where contrails” – carefully, he doesn’t refer to them as “chemtrails”! – “will not form. The air could be too warm or too dry to form the ice crystals which make a contrail visible.”

Sadly, yet another non-existence. The rest is physics, which you haven’t yet understood. You CAN, you know, understand it if you merely make the attempt…

It is eminently unlikely, if not patently impossible, that air that high up would be so warm, to begin with. The jets that form chemtrails typically fly at at least three miles high.

More like SEVEN. And the word is CONTRAILS. And the ambient temperature and water vapor pressure will be the determinants.

Even if it was too warm, a trail, of sorts, of water vapor would be likely, following the jet.

Water vapor is colorless and transparent, so you are correct, but you wouldn’t see it. A trail of water (vapor) follows EVERY plane that has its engines on.

And, even if the air were very dry, a trace of the ice crystals from the jet engines, that supposedly form the “seed” for the chemtrail, should be visible, and it is not.

Very wrong. Any ice crystals formed in dry air sublime to water vapor in a fraction of a second. The exhaust temperature is 1100 deg C, so it always leaves the engine as steam – invisible until it cools. Anything at all, if finely-divided, will seed the condensation of water.

And that is leaving aside, entirely, the fact that there is little reason to believe that an isolated, tiny, patch of air could be so radically different from the overwhelming mass of air around it!

That is the NATURE of the stratosphere which YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND. It is your ignorance that gives you little “reason to believe”! Understanding science requires NO “belief”.

If an area of warm or dry air were to intrude, it is likely that it would be no time before the rest of the air around it would bring it into equilibrium.

Wrong. The stratosphere is STABLE, and already in equilibrium.

More than that, though, Mr. Ernst, will have to explain how it is possible for chemtrails with breaks, supposedly caused by differing air masses, to occur in close proximity to chemtrails with no breaks!

See above. You have completely failed to comprehend the nature of the stratosphere. STRATUM is the Latin for “layer” – the stratosphere is layered, and because its stable layers don’t intermix they have different humidities.

“I’ll leave it at that and let you be the judge”, he concludes archly. If he’s telling the absolute, incontrovertible truth, which he pretends to be, then he would be able to call it that! He wouldn’t have to leave it to the reader to “be the judge”.

That is what is called “respecting the reader”. In your case, a mistake, but what the hell…

That in itself all but brands the material on the Seawana site utterly untrustworthy.

Only to someone incapable of understanding the science. How is it possible to trust anyone speaking about science when they obviously don’t understand it?

Mr. Ernst also takes issue with, among other things, the observation that “most chemtrails seem to be created at altitudes above commercial flights”, which can be taken to be an indication that chemtrails are not normal contrails, but the result of government flights. “That is because the probability of a contrail being produced at a higher altitude is much greater”, he retorts. “Next please”, he adds, smugly, evidently content that he has put any question of the formation of chemtrails to rest, firmly. But, if the chemtrails are being produced at altitudes higher than commercial jets use, as he himself seems willing to accede, what is leaving them? It is apparent, then, that it is only government planes laying the trails, and that is far from , makingsomething that discounts the likelihood of their being a government operation’.

What height do passenger planes fly at? You suggest three miles! It’s six to seven miles! What height do the military fly at? You don’t know? …but I’ll give you a clue – it’s higher still! Will that be colder? – No!

I have seen videos claiming the aircraft flying my mother to visit me was a “chemtrail sprayer”. So if it isn’t passenger planes, it’s the military. But it’s “worldwide”, and the military’s aviation bill doesn’t stretch that far… So, it’s local to you, and “military”.

In which case it’s NOT a GLOBAL spraying campaign, is it? People like you are so irritating…

Moreover, how could Flight Explorer, which seems to record only commercial flights, attest to the flight plans of those jets causing the chemtrails?

“Chemtrails” are still something you haven’t produced evidence for. What’s the point of answering your question? I could ask you what sort of defense the military could offer if you could track them on Flight Explorer, I suppose…

Among the site’s other demonstrations / antipathy for everything that exists.

This paragraph is ad hom, and I’ll ignore it, except that if it’s antipathetic to you, I’d be in agreement with it.

Nor, indeed, is it only apparently “disinterested individuals” who have attempted to quell investigation into chemtrails. Branches of the government have taken it upon themselves to denounce the consideration that chemtrails were anything but ordinary contrails, and even gone so far as to officially term it a “hoax.”

It fits the description “hoax” perfectly so far. Any evidence of “chemtrails”? No.

The United States Air Force web page on the subject, http://www.af.mil/environment/contrails_chemtrail.shtml, for example, is entitled “The Chemtrail Hoax”. While it may be a purview of individuals to term something a “hoax” at will, a branch of the government is considered more bound by the law in its actions, so that, for them to term something a “hoax” is automatically to have it characterized according to the legal definition of the term. More than that, it indicates that sufficient examination has been carried out to back that characterization.

It has. Fifty years and thousands of qualified man-hours of research in atmospheric physics indicate “chemtrails” to be a HOAX.

Legally, a “hoax” is far more than just some kind of prank, gag or practical joke; it is a willful and malicious act of mayhem, usually for the aggrandizement of the “perpetrator”.

EXACTLY SO. You are aggrandizing yourself ABOVE scientists, for a start.

By titling their page that way, the Air Force, then, officially accuses all the honest, straightforward citizens genuinely concerned about at least the affront of their skies being clouded over, and sunlight all but banished from their lives, as malingerers and frauds.

Which you surely are, if you insist on “chemtrails” without a trace of evidence, and any knowledge of atmospheric physics. You are committing the cardinal sin of “bearing false witness against your neighbour”, which puts you in (your) Hell…

A common tactic of the guilty is to cast the first stone and blame the innocent, at least to try to buy enough time to shore up their defenses against justice.

One day, you WILL probably have to defend yourself against justice, for you ARE causing harm right now.

As with all other “debunkers”, the Air Force proceeds to declare that contrails can be caused to remain for very long periods, based on temperature and humidity. Like the other debunkers, they never once assert that the conditions that would allow contrails to persist – if at all – are conditions that are likely to, or even possibly can, occur on the earth, at the present!

But they do, and I’ve covered that. There are HUNDREDS of papers about contrail formation readily available on the web, as I have already demonstrated.

Unlike the other “debunkers”, the Air Force, on their site, don’t include barometric pressure in the “explanation”, an eminently glaring omission, utterly calling everything they say into question!

No, it proves that you do not know what you are talking about. The vapor pressure of water is completely independent of atmospheric pressure. It’s a function of its temperature alone.

Also unlike the other “debunkers”, the Air Force does claim that “winds” can affect the persistence of contrails. Too, and indicative of the fact that they may engage in the eminently questionable act of taking it on themselves to term suspicion of chemtrails a “hoax”, but they are still bound by considerations of justice and fairness, the Air Force, on their site, declare that contrails can be caused to last long periods of time because of “aircraft exhaust characteristics”. The nebulous reference is, apparently, meant to downplay the matter, but, technically, “aircraft exhaust characteristics” includes what is being pumped out. And it is precisely the contention of chemtrail opponents that high flying military jets are pumping unorthodox and irregular materials into the air.

And so far there is no evidence of what you say. I have personally analyzed jet engine exhaust products and found them to exactly what they are claimed in the standard literature to be.

You, on the other hand, don’t even know where to obtain that literature…

In phraseology evidently intended to gull the unwitting into believing that normal characteristics of jet exhausts can, under the right circumstances, be made to last long periods of time, the Air Force, in actuality, seems to admit that unorthodox materials in their exhaust are what is forming chemtrails. They fill out their “disproof” of the existence of chemtrails with a list of links to “debunker” web sites that no longer exist, and one link to a site in Denmark that “demonstrates” the non-existence of chemtrails by showing pictures of chemtrails and calling them contrails! It is instructive that this practice of “proving” something doesn’t exist by simply calling it something else is taking place on a site operated by the Neils Böhr Institute.

Planck, Einstein, Bohr

Planck, Einstein, Bohr

You really don’t understand what you are up against here. The Niels Bohr Institute is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the difference of our present world from the world of Queen Victoria. The understanding of the basis of our material existence sprang from this source. Atomic Theory, Relativity, Quantum Physics, Cosmology owe nearly EVERYTHING to this institute.

If that is the level of “intellectual discourse” involved in “debunking” chemtrails, it is only further testimony to the truth of their existence.

No it is not, and so far you’ve produced NOTHING that IS. You or the Neils Bohr Institute? Please! Self-aggrandizement or what!

If that is the level of honesty involved in the movement against chemtrail opponents, it strengthens the evidence that they are, indeed, an act of craven contempt for the people. But contempt seems a given, both in the perpetrating of chemtrails, and in the apparent attempted cover-up. Indeed, it is apparently inherent, how spiteful and disdainful the sites devoted to debunking conspiracy theories regularly are to those who acknowledge their existence.

Well. I find you cravenly contemptible because you have produced no evidence so far, and are still continuing to lie, libel, and slander. I agree with them… not you…


If conspiracy theories really were untrue, those who subscribed to them would be deluding themselves.

YES INDEED. And deluding others, and bearing false witness against yet others.

They would be genuinely wasting their time.

YES INDEED. And that of others.

That is a tragedy, and would be approached as a tragedy, by those with genuine honor and the kind of concern and regard for others that would be consistent with telling them the truth.

That was MY first approach, which was totally wasted. It was met by lies and slander directed at ME. It still is.

The arrogance and disregard to be seen among the conspiracy theory debunkers is that to be found in those incapable of the truth, or of any display of honor or decency. Their very malignance proclaims their assertions utterly untrustworthy and specious.

It seems to me that it is YOU that is incapable of truth. You have yet to produce ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Without truth, you ARE without honor or decency, as you are maligning innocent people…

There is every reason to believe, indeed, that those who call themselves debunkers are, in fact, quisling shills for government, trying to keep the truth from the people. They willingly admit to being considered that by many conspiracy theory examiners, and just as quickly – and without proof – dismiss the accusation, but it seems very near the truth, if not the truth itself. And this demonstrated malevolence of character, more so than much else, pronounces conspiracy theories far from unreliable; indeed, anything but unproved, or disproved. And that includes chemtrails. The evidence is that, not only are chemtrails real, there seems to be a dedicated movement to try to dissuade those who acknowledge the existence of chemtrails from following up on the subject.

I see, a fresh accusation, and STILL no evidence!

In recent months, since our own sending in several letters on the subject, chemtrails in New Jersey have begun to take on a new form. Instead of stretching from one horizon to the other, chemtrails laid here have begun to take the form, only, of lines across part of the sky. It seems intended to give the impression that chemtrails do not really exist, since these go only partway across the sky. But this has only begun recently, so it cannot be a demonstration of something which existed before. But it seems related to the fact that we recently began sending letters to the editor from here on this subject.

This is covered by my answer as to “chaotic natural processes”, and “self-aggrandizement”.

In the end, the people must take it on themselves to see that their rights and interests are respected by government. They must involve themselves, deeply and determinedly, in government. It is up to them to see that it is their welfare that motivates government.

I can’t disagree with THAT.

However I find it worth mentioning that if you were better educated in the physics of your world’s atmosphere (and the combustion products of a modern jet engine) there would be at least three consequences:

a) You’d drop “chemtrails” like it was a poisonous snake.

b) You’d respect Science and scientists, and their published works, as valuable additions to human knowledge.

c) You’d begin to earn my respect – after your apology. Maybe.



Supersymmetry, Extra Dimensions and the Origin of Mass

I don’t know about you, but “chemtrailers” always leave me with a nasty taste of the world in my mouth. Their inbuilt hatred of science is like a bad case of influenza – life-sapping and soul-destroying.

I can think of nothing better than what follows to restore my vitality and zeal – a dynamic lady with a keen mind leads us through the amazing engineering and breath-taking hardware and software design of – CERN, the Large Hadron Collider, in search of the Higgs Boson, amongst other things.




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“Who gave these people permission” – Nobody has.

“we are experimenting on a global scale” – “Nobody” IS. EVERYBODY IS.

“This (seeding the central oceans with phytoplankton fertilizer) is a BAD idea” – It’s the BEST IDEA IN YEARS.


“You say that CT’s are disinformation” – WHAT is MORE disinformative than NON-EXISTENCE?

“global warming is the reason” – We’re heading for an ICE AGE! (Or we were, before we burnt 300,000,000 years worth of fossil fuel in 200 years).

“You apparently did work for the government/making your motives questionable” – What do you know of my motives? If I tell you I had a further sixty jobs, does that make a difference? If you question my motives, should I care?


“Global Warming IS DISINFORMATION” – It possibly is; no-one has an equation which everyone can agree on. I take a Gaian point of view: the Living Earth will balance ALL unbalancing forces and/or finally ELIMINATE the unbalancing force. If that’s you, then more the fool you are.

“its a lie, to cover up the real motives at work here” – All men are liars. So are YOU if you pontificate… And as I know quite personally what I think, and also that you don’t know what I think, please allow me to call you a LIAR.


“The real reason is OIL” – There IS no “reason”, remember?

“The government/dedicated/oil industry” – You are SUCH a fool. You obviously believe in gov’t conspiracies etc. But HOW did YOU keep WARM this winter? Burnt some CARBON, DID YOU?


“They are not interested in CO2 reduction” – Funnily enough, that doesn’t seem to be true (either), partially because they believe their own propaganda.

“They only want to treat the symptom not the cause” – The CAUSE is YOU. You, me and every other dumb clutz that MUST have a computer, keep warm, go to work, have children, “settle down”, celebrate Xmas, visit the relatives, read a book after sunset…. 





These are PERSISTENT CONTRAILS. One of these pictures is 67 YEARS OLD… 


El Medano Chinese Restaurant

El Medano Chinese Restaurant

Hi piasillo. No, I’m an ex-engineer retired in Tenerife and composing music. Look me up.
Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.
1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man’s efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable. 


“in movies up until the 90’s” – You mean, before CHEAP and PLENTIFUL air travel.

“When I was a kid/dissipate” – NOT TRUE. When you were a kid, you weren’t making the (false) connections you are making today. In 1943 the US Flying Fortresses were being shot doen in their HUNDREDS as a consequence of PERSISTENT CONTRAILS!


“Today they stay” – THOUSANDS of large aircraft are ADDING WATER TO THE STRATOSPHERE.

You MIGHT EXPECT the INCREASE in saturation of the stratosphere to produce an INCREASE in the persistence of contrails. 




Problems are going to confront our species from time to time.

It is said (by those best qualified to understand the problem) that it was already too late to prevent Global Warming in the seventies, when at that time those best qualified to understand were predicting the onset of the next Ice Age. Ah, well!

Kyoto and its “cap and trade” carbon agreements are threatening to become as much of a disaster as the events it is intended to obviate.

This is possibly because there are other activities which may be carried out which may also be used to prevent disaster, which presently have a very low priority.

These are:

a) to adopt measures which help us to adapt to the changing conditions, and

b) to adopt measures which work in the opposite way to global warming, like seeding the sky with droplet nucleii and causing more clouds, thus raising the albedo of the Earth and cooling it, or fertilize the mid-oceans, causing phytoplankton to absorb more CO2.

Watch this, which gives better reasons for cherishing our uniqueness, and gets to the same point:

The Millenium Project Bookshop

96 books about Pseudoscience

This is a collection of books related to the Pseudoscience category in The Millenium Project.


There are some books about Pseudoscience which are not recommended. You can see the list here.

All commissions from sales in the Health Fraud, Vaccination and Pseudoscience categories are donated to the Australian Council Against Health Fraud to help in the fight against quackery.

Books for Other Categories
Art | Creationism | Critical Thinking | Cults | Health Fraud | Magazines | MLM | Pseudoscience | Racism | Religion | Sexuality | Vaccination | Other 

Q & A

“finally admit to the spraying of aerosols” – I’m a retired engineer living in Tenerife. I have NO money, and NO income either. Aerosols exist in the air, naturally, from volcanoes and animals and plants. They have been found as high in the atmosphere as any plane has flown. There are NO signs on planes or airfields of unusual (and corrosive!) fluids. Such fluids would make the plane DANGEROUS. Eventually, if not immediately, it would CRASH.

“all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else” – I’m hurt. On my channel there were 13 musical works. My Favourites were there for you to enjoy, as were my playlists. You could have found me, if you cared to look, on other science forums, discussing internal combustion engine design and arguing FOR Evolution on YT, and you’ll find other video sites, and many other music sites. There were a 1000 hits for me in Google (that’s now 7000, but I’ve amended the text to account from my YouTube ban, and other bans).

“debunk your goverment programming” – That would be the Spanish government? (I live in Tenerife!)

“u will see the truth” – NO-ONE has seen THAT! Certainly not you, you dumb clutz.



“random videos in your channel 2 make it look as though your an average guy” – Gee – thanks! Learn to spell. Then f*** off.

“You have just started doing that as people became suspicious” – Er, NO. If you look up myspace.com/jazzroc you’ll find out MUCH MORE about me, friends, pictures, wedding, classical music, blogs, etc. And check out SoundClick/Beachcomber, you’ll find more, and GarageBand/JazzRoc, and Esnips under Beachcomber/Jazzroc.

All of this PRECEDES my YouTube account.


“Ive talked to many older ppl & NONE remember seeing these” – Free of obsessions they went about their business without looking up…

“”blue light scattering” EVERY SINGLE TIME” – The SUN and the STRATOSPHERE are there EVERY SINGLE TIME, so how could it be otherwise? The Sun has risen over every patch of the Earth (excluding inside of the polar circles) for 4.6 billion years…

“You spooks are professional bullshitters!” – “You” and “are” are the ONLY non-bullshit words in your sentence. I’m just an unemployed and semi-retired person living comfortably in Tenerife…   …and you’re DEFINITELY an amateur one…

In fact you seem to make a practice of being WRONG EVERY TIME. Is that YOUR profession? Remember: learn to spell, then… 


Chemtrails don’t exist!

The reasoning (that contrails disperse quickly, and that which doesn’t is a chemtrail) is FALSE because SIXTY-FOUR YEARS AGO in WW2 US Flying Fortresses were hunted down by their persistent trails, which are always left in HUMID stratospheric (NB.: NOT tropospheric!) conditions.

The reasoning that Xes and grid patterns signify something proves to be FALSE because it can be easily demonstrated that shuttle traffic and crossing routes create these, and no further significance need be inferred. To go beyond that is to seriously enter the land of Oz.

The reasoning that we are being sprayed proves to be FALSE because the stratosphere (where it is said to occur) is TOO HIGH to target anything accurately, and passenger planes have no apparatus other than fuel dump nozzles to do it with. Engines would STERILIZE “morgellons”, and be PUT OUT by metal powders, so THAT idea is FALSE.

The reasoning that the US government is fighting Global Warming using AL/BA is FALSE because the operation is LOGISTICALLY BEYOND what the US govt can provide both in aircraft, fuel, and material. 3.4 million tons and 70,000 flights would be required for “treatment”…

The reasoning that “morgellons” is being used to depopulate the United States and the rest of the world, aside similar logistic objections (and 2000 deg exhaust temps), is FALSE because NO-ONE in peace-time (except maybe a child/moron!) is going to go out in the morning in protective clothing and spray his own people.

What assurances would they have to accept before they did this?

So now we’ve covered nearly everything, which TOTALLY CRAP idea would you like to RETURN to?

Why don’t you just tell me that “chemtrails” can be easily sampled by placing a tray on the ground? FALSE

It’s all rubbish, and by some accident the proponents have survived this world so far… a world which would have been a far, far better place without this weasel, Clifford Carnicom… 


“100’s of chemtrail photos from a one hour period in my local sky” – You live near an airport…

“trails that start and stop for no reason” – FALSE. Stratospheric layers with differing temperatures and humidities.

“linger indefinitely” – The layer is 100% humid.

“grow into WILD feathery or crystalline shapes” – CIRRUS cloud.

“Many were sprayed” – BASELESS LIE.

“normal contrails” – A layer less than 100% humid.

“RESEARCH CHEMTRAILS if you have questions” – And you’ll get LIES for an answer.

If you want TRUTH then you must RESEARCH CONTRAILS. Remember to use ADVANCED SEARCH and “-CHEMTRAILS” if you are genuinely looking for anything sensible… 


It’s true. The States needs another political party.

It should be called the RESTITUTION PARTY.


When in power it should lock up the Bush Cabal and throw away the key, then take the USA out of Iraq, apologising as it leaves. It should then disarm its people and hand its useful arms to the UN, thereby paying its bill.

It should then adopt a RENEWABLE FUEL policy, and compensate all the countries whose people it has murdered.

But don’t think that I’m on YOUR side.

I’ll NEVER side with a bunch of ignorant liars who don’t know which side is up when it comes to the nature and the DANGERS of contrails.

The story’s been written – CHICKEN LITTLE!



“the cockpit would be empty” – This technology has been employed by aircraft for FORTY YEARS. What sort of revelation is THAT?

“I have a hard time believing our own people would do this to us” – Of ALL your hypocritical statements this is the best.

“Maybe jazzroc is a pilot?” – I last wanted to be a fighter pilot when I was fifteen. Then I decided I’d rather NOT FLY into danger until it became absolutely necessary. Dating had something to do with it.

“started criss crossing the skys” – Fast-moving and damp and yet TRANSPARENT stratosphere, crossing passenger shuttle routes are WETTING IT. Learn to spell.

“donuts” – Their correct technical name is PENDULES.

“quicker into clouds” – Because they ARE clouds, of FALLING ice crystals. Normally known as CIRRUS.

“It doesn’t matter what you believe” – in the case of SCIENCE, NO it doesn’t!

“darkness/decieve/fool/traitor/poison/nanobots/whatever” – Get that STAKE out and BURN ME.

GenuineBull – “exposers/crime” – “TO ALL OUR CUSTOMERS”. Genuine (can I CALL you Genuine?) I LIKE a guy who gets it out on the table…

“don’t pay JazzRoc A.K.A. (Epoxynous) any mind” – What’s to say? Epoxynous is an individual who co-manages a website in the States, JazzRoc is a retired Welsh gentleman in Tenerife.

“He’s been around a long time” – Yes. I am SIXTY FIVE years old, bass-guitarist, pianist, jet-engine tester, designer, COMPOSER. I, like Orwell, believe that in a time of UNIVERSAL DECEIT the TRUTH is a REVOLUTIONARY ACT (consult my site, also MySpace).

“sole purpose/deceive/cast doubt/not yet woken up” – A TRUTH REVERSAL.

“He believes he will not be judged but he will have his part in the lake of fire” – I’m sorry but I am NOT INTERESTED in things that CANNOT be SEEN, HEARD, SMELLED, TASTED, or FELT. Your mind disgusts me. (Another guy who talks past you).

“idiots who don’t know/difference/contrail/chemtrail/screw off/Hilton/video” – It’s a FREE world, but if you’d rather bash the Bishop I shan’t stop you.

“Don’t bother giving us your textbook explanations” – You? In particular? I’d rather give them to someone rational… it’s the best use for a BOOK.

“have not yet woken up/care about their lives and their loved ones” – Hmmm. Afraid to come out in the open? Agorophobic? The best cure for that is to OPEN THE DOOR, walk outside in to the OPEN AIR and take a BIG, DEEP, BREATH. Go walk the dog… … IT WON’T KILL YOU …



Rick, Harriet, you may think you are caring people, but your activities are contributing to damaging our society from within because the both of you are hopelessly wrong.

Clifford Carnicom is an evil person who should be denounced as a Machiavelli, a malingerer, a pseudo-scientist. You are wrong to give such a person support. He is a true terrorist who is preying upon your scientific and factual ignorance.

Persistent contrails have been known and photographed for sixty-eight years. Skies first turned white (all over) during the high-altitude close-formation 1000-bomber raids conducted by the USAF Flying Fortresses and Liberators over Germany between 1943 and 1945.

Internal combustion engines, whether they are 2,000 BHP radials or 40,000lb thrust gas turbine fanjets, produce carbon dioxide and steam at 2,000 deg F as exhaust products, with minuscule amounts of soot, and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur.

The (invisible!) steam in the exhaust meets stratospheric air at -40 deg F and in a fraction of a second turns to fine ice crystals. Depending on the relative humidity of this stratospheric air, these crystals may (i) sublime to invisible water vapour (ii) persist indefinitely, or (iii) increase in size as they pick up additional water from supersaturated air.

From seven miles beneath it isn’t possible to discern the transition from what you would call “normal” air to “stratospheric” air, for, of course, both types of air are normally transparent. Nor is it possible to distinguish easily whether or not aircraft are sharing the same altitude.

“Stratum” is the Latin for “layer” and might clue you in to the fact that the stratosphere is layered. These layers normally exhibit differing humidities – they do not mix with each other, nor do they mix with the troposphere – the “normal” air beneath the stratosphere. Hence aircraft flying at various heights through the stratosphere may appear to exhibit all three behaviours I have described – all at the same time.

Couple this with the fact that the air of the stratosphere is so cold and thin that its capacity to absorb sublimed ice as water vapor is greatly reduced compared with its capacity at sea level, and modern passenger aircraft are dumping a ton of ice every twenty miles, and it shouldn’t be difficult to envisage that heavy air traffic might fill a stratospheric layer with ice crystals. Each day the Earth’s stratosphere HAS to deal with a fresh load of 1,00,000 tons of jet aircraft ice…

So, “this most evil of assaults” is actually WATER…

Now I’m no fan of the Patriot act, but it seems to me that “this most evil of assaults” (yours!) falls well within its parameters. I should watch it if I were you. Perhaps you should stop what you are doing and pick up a book on atmospheric science and educate yourself before less sympathetic people undertake THEIR newly-drafted responsibilities to educate you. Those orange suits aren’t fetching and taking their “baths” looks uncomfortable.

MY BLOG contains much useful information which may both quell your fears and save the both of you from a lot of trouble. 


The WHOLE of the atmosphere ALWAYS contains WATER.

Whether you’re looking at a cloud or at clear air, there’s actually the SAME AMOUNT OF WATER IN BOTH. The difference in visibility between clouds and sky is simply due to their DIFFERING amounts of heat and water droplet proportions. As far as my eye can see there’s a cloudless sky here, and the rel humidity is 65%.

I’m looking at 3,300 tons of invisible WATER in my sky RIGHT NOW.



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lol, well you’re nuts but at least you concede that there’s something up there that shouldn’t be. we get lots of these over Toronto as well. 100+ chemicals including berium…very poisonous. ,,.also weather maniuplation.”
“you concede” – WATER. Not exactly harmful.
“shouldn’t be” – SHOULD BE, if you wish to travel.
“we get lots as well” – You have a LARGE AIRPORT.
“100+ chemicals” – have been picked up at GROUND LEVEL. The WORLD is a DUSTY place, and you have COUNTLESS MILLIONS of BACTERIA ALL OVER YOU.
“berium” – BARIUM – “very poisonous” – so is CALCIUM (OXIDE) if you swallow it. Yet your BONES and TEETH are made of it.
“weather manipulation” – The induction of rainfall needs SILVER iodide crystals. The STATES have FLOGGED their FAMILY SILVER.
Weather has NEVER been manipulated.
And so your reply becomes MEANINGLESS DRIVEL. 



Actually, I believe your data. It contained a few missing pieces of info I had been hoping someone could articulate for a while now.
The most profound fallacies I’ve noticed are that:
1) If you can see a trail, it MUST be dangerous.
2) If you can’t see a trail, no danger exists.
Ha. Not so very funny.
I hope you read up more on DILUTION FACTORS. In general, apart from molecules of  plutonium or other radioactive element isotopes, EVERYTHING ELSE sprayed from a height of seven miles would land the day after tomorrow, at least two hundred miles away, and DILUTED BEYOND ANY DANGER – unless you believe in that branch of alternative medicine, er, whatsitsname… homeopathic…
And I hope you watched George Carlin too…
I agree with him: you’re all pussies that have NO IDEA of the dangers that existed all around you throughout existence – before you were born – creeping up on you as you’re standing outside (looking up!) – and raining down on the pussies that will still be in existence after you’re dead.
You don’t want to be a pussy? Then LEARN about Evolution, LEARN about your body’s biochemistry, Learn about pathogens and poisons, LEARN about the atmosphere, LEARN about the REAL dangers of EM radiation from CELLPHONES and city centres, LEARN about the Federal Reserve Bank, LEARN how to be self-sufficient, LEARN how to build an autonomous house, LEARN about PERMACULTURE and Ecology.
Don’t waste your time with Chemtrailer-trash bunkum… 


Look up the Boeing 777 Long Range prototype in Airliners dot net. You’ll find this picture without the photoshopping.
The barrels are for varying the plane’s centre of gravity – a nifty thing to do when you’re prototype-testing.
Sciechimiche are a crowd of fraudsters and YOU are the dupe.
“Chemtrails” are a form of mind-terrorism practised by people who don’t understand anything to do with science and engineering.
The damage they do is worse than Chicken Little.
You are a throwback.

There are plenty of US patents related to many of the topics brought to light by those you call ‘fraudsters’. I have spent many hours reviewing numerous aerosol methods and devices.
One thing that is fact, is the baldfaced lies our government will tell the public to justify any agenda. So given that lies can come from both sides, truth usually falls somewhere in the middle and usually in plain sight. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
After absolutely stumping my Earth Science professor one day a few years ago (who happens to be a career military weatherman), I’ll keep on watching.
What’s most interesting is why anyone would bother wasting time on people who are supposedly discussing something that is not accurate. One would think there are better things to do with your time than spending it following such dialogue.

There are plenty of patents about everything.
I am an anarchist with a natural distaste of governments.
“Truth” only falls at the centre by default in such debates – and, as such, ISN’T truth.
There’s no harm in “keeping on watching” only if you keep your scientific understanding up to snuff.
You have failed to do so – and so you do harm. Without sufficient understanding you will fail to interpret events accurately, and then proceed inexorably to jump to wrong conclusions.
Reminding harmful members of our society of the harm they are committing seems quite a reasonable thing to do to me. It’s not the only thing I do with my time.

To an extent, you seem to have some sense of concern. Since we as a public have been lied to on numerous occasions, putting faith into the corrupt is not always wise. Those entrusted to keep the faith are many times part of the problem.
In an ideal scenario, one would prefer to be able to not have to be concerned. Does one sit back and do nothing or do something? Regardless of 100% accuracy or ability to provide certain proof, the act of, in and of itself, generating any awareness at all is to everyone’s benefit.
I know that when presented with conditions he could not explain, my “career military weatherman” professor was stumped and would not comment further. One problem with “Science” is that some in Science are just as corrupt. Controversy is just as plentiful and placing faith is getting more and more difficult. I would surely hope that nothing is going on to our atmosphere and that there would be nothing to be concerned about.
One thing is also certain, all actions are not being conducted for your and my best interests. To think that whatever is going on is on the up and up all the time is not a good approach…

The same could be said of you, re concern. You may be not completely cynical yourself.
The “visual evidence” you so much believe in has led you astray.
Were it not for science would you KNOW that the Sun does NOT go round the Earth? Be honest – you wouldn’t. You would INTERPRET what you see as the Sun (a SMALLER body) passing over the sky to set on the opposite compass axis.
In a similar manner you INTERPRET the occasional trail which expands HUGELY as a HUMAN act, when it is in fact a NATURAL occurrence.
When passing through cold (-40) humid (more than100% saturated) stratospheric air (a completely different STABLE and LAYERED section of Earth’s atmosphere) the trail ice can SEED the NUCLEATION of the excess water in the layer by a factor of up to TEN THOUSAND TIMES.
It is therefore not impossible for a trans-continental jumbo flight to create a trail containing EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS of ICE.
You will appreciate that this trail WILL cover the sky with a stripe of suspended ice crystals which may be up to 10 kilometres wide by 2 kilometres deep. With stratospheric interlayer SHEAR this may get WIDER STILL.
There are hundreds of atmospheric research papers to choose from, but I’ll quote you only one:
READ IT. This research was done using the finest minds and scientific techniques.
With this fact NOTHING REMAINS OF YOUR THEORY. Without the visual misperception you have made, you are left merely with hatred of the extant power structure – which is my position also.
If you go down the route that such reports are mere constructs of the PTB, then you have to assume that ALL information has been back-edited, and that would have to include ALL relevant books in ALL libraries (and the ones on my shelf).
Sorry, me laddie, but that won’t wash…
Seeing as we SHARE a dislike of “authority” (I have been an anarchist since before you were born) I will now tell you that MISINFORMATION (which is what you seem to wish to disseminate) is NO SERVICE AT ALL to the rest of us. We’re trying to WIN a battle that you’re trying to LOSE.
Far from myself being a “USEFUL IDIOT”, it is YOURSELF that is a USELESS one…

Once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered, may have been implemented and may even be in some form of advanced stages.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening. Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda. I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.

once again, your insight is appreciated and respected, yet even with accurate statistics detailing various formations, it does not deny, or cause doubt toward the fact that geoengineering has been considered” – You, I, and most everyone else has considered it. Yet few of us are sufficiently mathematically-inclined and equipped with hard facts about the Earth to do this. Those that do know that the Earth’s a large place and Man’s technological activities aren’t detectable within its atmosphere.
may have been implemented and ” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
may even be in some form of advanced stages.” – Well, no, that isn’t true for the above reasons.
Knowing the weather modification efforts during the Vietnam War and our own use of chemicals, and the simple fact of the now documented untruth regarding the Tonkin incident, there is little to no reason to believe, with even the smallest of faith, what we are told.” – Even while agreeing with you that these events did take place, that doesn’t allow me to suppose that things aren’t different today. They are different today.
Many intervening events have taken place and everyone these days is web-aware. There was no web then.
The presentation of any statistics is by no means any type of answer that would confirm that no such thing is or has been happening.” – That would be true if it were true. However I didn’t present you with “statistics”. I presented you with EVIDENCE proving the NON-EXISTENCE of CHEMTRAILS.
Should you ever be able to provide enough information that there would indeed be no reason or any effort whatsoever for any weather modification, this would be more constructive.” – I provided EVIDENCE. You misinterpretation of that is your problem.
There ARE two worthwhile areas of geo-engineering, one involving salt-spray trimarans and the other fertilising the mid-ocean sea surfaces.
As I watch this and other areas, one thing remains constant, the ability to try and mislead the public for a greater agenda.” – It’s a pity you seem to want to join in with this. If they can do it, you can do it, is that it?
I would much rather be wrong about an issue than be asleep to it.” – Then you are apparently in your ideal state.

Once again, I would have enjoyed something that would remove any doubt about such possibilities. Nothing mentioned lays any basis for having any belief that such operations are not going on or have been going on. There is no basis to have faith in those that would or would not even be involved.It would be interesting as to why you can claim that such things are not possible unless you knew for certain that every possible source was in fact not doing these things. While your information base may be great, I fail to see anything that would cause support.
On another note, what is your take on the article published in the Open Chemical and Physics Journal of April 2009 regarding dust samples. I would surely like to see that their findings are inaccurate but no-one has countered with any significant results to the contrary

The trails witnessed which persist when a jet plane flies through a supersaturated stratosphere ( 17% of Earth’s stratosphere is in this condition) are composed of ICE – as I have already told you.
There are 87,000 daily overflights of the US. Only the variability of the persistent jet streams determines where supersaturated conditions exist in the seven stratospheric circulatory cell systems which the Earth possesses.
You might suppose that nearly a million tons of aviation kerosine combusted to add just over a million tons of water vapor/ice might alter the stratosphere significantly locally, but measurements have shown less than a percentage change whenever they have been measured. This may cause hazy conditions – but they are local and temporary. And HARMLESS. Persistent trail ice is PURER THAN TAPWATER!
Metals and other materials cannot be passed through jet engines without being visible in the trail gap.They AREN’T, so aircraft jet engines are NOT the route by which you can claim “spraying” to be taking place.
If you knew ANY science, you would know that passing finely-divided metals through a flame is a means of determining which element they are – for each element has a different flame color. It’s known as “Flame Testing”. Every colored firework you have ever seen should remind you of this. BARIUM is used to color fireworks GREEN.
Metals which undergo VIOLENT HIGH SPEED COLLISION reach PLASMATIC temperatures. They FLASH!
If you collide iron and aluminum at high speeds (half a million tons falling from a thousand feet) the violence vaporizes some the metal into a hot spray of microspherules – just like thermite combustion.
All the materials necessary were there in the WTC – iron from the structure, aluminum from the plane, sulfur from the gypsum wall-boarding.
I draw your attention to this vid of a Phantom colliding with a very solid concrete block. You’ll see the plasmatic flash, and the fine dust (microspherical) which flies out radially from the point of contact. This dust (made from a dural/titanium airframe and two engines with very large, hard, heat-resistent alloy-steel shafts about ten feet long!) won’t contain much sulfur, but that’s the only difference.

Now get off your ass and stop buying things so easily. Science is a process which checks itself all the time, and if a dozen scientists say one thing, with a single dissenter, then the chances REALLY ARE that the twelve are correct, and the dissenter isn’t. If you want to be sure, then LEARN SOME SCIENCE.
The beauty of everything I’m telling you is that if you CHECK FOR YOURSELF in a book in some library I have never seen, or in a paper available on the internet via your own search process, you CAN quite independently confirm what I write here.
The fact that the US is run by a criminal syndicate in no way alters the physics of gas turbines in the atmosphere or high-energy collisions.
Get logical.

Well, he stopped responding. He answered none of my questions, followed none of my links.

These guys are so paranoid and deluded that they avoid Science in their desperate attempts to remain “uncontaminated” by the “powers-that-be”.

YouTube is supremely unconcerned with matters of truth, and many of the people I know who, like me, find this delusional and divisive behavior to be appalling, have been banned from it when they overstep the mark (by posting too often, or by being complained of to YT). It also puts a 500-character limit on comments and has some ingenious software which prevents anyone from posting links, which makes it very difficult to challenge these deceitful videos, while making it very easy to produce them.



The interior photos show a pre-production aircraft, fitted with instrumentation for use during a flight testing programme.  The liquid containers that you see, fixed to the floor in the cabin, can be filled with water to simulate the weight of seats, passengers, cargo and luggage.  New aircraft must be tested at their all-up weight, but you don’t undertake trials of a new design with hundreds of people on board!   No chemtrails here.   Fnord.
Fnord… And “Hail Eris !”

That does not say Hazard Inside.  It says HAZMAT.   It means hazardous materials.  So you are partially right.   Inside the striped tape is a sign in sheet used to show who checked on or secured the material last.
Standard government stuff here.  It could be anything.  You are only speculating on the “spraying”, you can’t really tell what it is saying.
Same with the “Lock Care”.  If it had anything to do with safety it would be in the same place on every barrel.  The government standardizes everything.
Dustin I cannot believe what you wrote!  I have been photographing these goddamned billows of crap being srayed over my town for 10 fucking years and you want to argue over hazmat vs hazard!!??  Are you insane!!??  Look at the skies for god sake.  This is world wide.  Not EVERYTHING is necessarily going to be the way you expect it to be when we have all seen more than one type of plane spraying.  It is not JUST THE US GOVERNMENT here!  Watch “Aerosol Crimes” on google video.  What is really important?
Fine, don’t believe what I wrote.  I said it was HAZMAT, that’s the same as Hazard in a way.  Don’t be stupid, the government is not “spraying” you with anything. Don’t believe everything you see on YouTube.  And if they are, it isn’t working.  I still know they are corrupt and after nothing but power.  Life expectancy is going up, so it must not be that bad for ya.  If it is something that kills certain people…  fine, the world population is getting out of hand.  Just hope I’m not the target.

Dustin, re-read what I wrote.  These have been falling on the ground x10yrs, I have been photographing longer than I have had a computer.  Life expectancy is goin down..how many 90 yr. olds do you know?  When I was in MY 20’s every family had 3 to 4.  Seriously take a look at “Aerosol Crimes” on google video by Clifford Carnicom.  It’s about 1hr.45min.  Great documentary, and a decade of material, incl. updates.  And “you” “are” the target. We all breathe the same air.  Have you seen what’s in these?
Making it to 90 years old has never been the norm….NEVER.  The life expectancy is in the 60s, it continues to go up too.  As for families having less kids now, well I see that you are 50 some years old.  Some would say part of the baby boomer generation.  Yes, parents had more kids back then.  People built their lives around hard work and producing goods.  No longer is that the case, we are a consuming nation now, more kids are not needed to help around the house anymore.

Dustin, check your mail for response.

The orginal photo dated May 25, 2005 can be found by googling airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton
Go to the first hit on google, it should be from airliners net and you can click and expand or save image as.  And see every thing you see on this video close up. Including the sign, barrels windows and computers.  You can also click on the “cn 3378/504” so you can find 80 more photos of the same airplane including photos of both the inside and outside for ID purposes.  Case Closed.

I’ve just looked it up on google, saved the image and the writing doesn’t seem to be on there anymore?

Laurasmales, you are correct, the original photo dated May 25, 2005 does not have the writing “Sprayer” “Hazard inside” and “Lock care” on it.  Which just goes to show that the video maker (tankerenemy) photoshopped the picture in order to deceive people into believing in chemtrails.  It is obvious that the maker of this video is knowingly and willing putting out disinformation in order to promote chemtrail beliefs.  For a video of the same plane including the tanks, pilots and engineers just google 777-200LR Worldliner videos.  Go to the first hit play the video “777-200LR prepares for first flight”.  In short, people like tankerenemy could not promote his false chemtrail beliefs without misinformation/disinformation. His photo shopped picture is a fine example of how far he will go to mislead people.

If it is photoshopped then they aren’t helping to spread the word about chemtrails, instead they’re inviting criticism.

Now that’s interesting. Although it’s obviously a fraud, this only “invites criticism”!

It doesn’t matter how much proof you show, there are govt. employees whose job it is to seek out all of these videos and articles and use any tactic to discredit the facts.  Contrails form at 29,000 feet, yet in desert areas aerosols have been sprayed at less than 10,000 feet and lingered for hours. No matter what you say they will deny.  So that is why I find it funny.  They get all bent when someone uses their same tactics back at them.

Ya because google can be trusted if the government was corrupt in that way.

Chemtrails are fucking real!

Rodman, even tankerenemy knows this is not at “chemplane”, if he really thought it was a “chemplane” then he would not have photoshop the photos in this video.  To see the orginal photo that predates tankerenemys photoshop version just google airliners Boeing 777-240/LR william appleton.  Note the original photo does not have the words “sprayer” “hazard inside” “lock care” because that was added by tankerenemy after he copied the photo off airliners net.  What is real is that IS a photo of the ballast tanks that are used to change the CG (weight and balance) in the certification test for the Boeing 777-240LR serial number 33781/504. And that same airplane is now used in passenger service for PIA.   Also what is real, is tankerenemy is knowingly and willingly putting out disinformation in the form of this photoshopped photo.

Farmersc, that is the typical chemtrail activist tactic.  Deceive and lie.  Anything for ratings and views.

Yeah, they were connected up through tubes which must spray out the back.  What ever it is, the goverment are doing something.

They are connected with tubes so they can flow the water from the back to the front of the aircraft.  They do this to determine the center of gravity limitations of this aircraft.

Could be part of the global eugenics program, or maybe its just liquid plant fertilizer the CIA are spraying on their opium crops.

Shut up you poisoned troll, the water and air is contaminating and mutating people into troll-like creatures , many people all over the country have gotten their hepa filtration systems tested, that’s how we know, and as for the military planes i have seen them with telescopes aliminum barrium trails, again buy an IQ air health pro, and forget about these military scumbags trying to kill you, at least while in your home.

My good friend Dr. Bender said another possibility is that after 2012 we will go through the galactic plane as it is called in science and our magnetic field will be affected.  Chemtrails can be filling us with a false metallic base so when there is less of a magnetic field they can throw on Haarp or something of the like and keep us under control, we know now that you can control a person by remote radio waves this is one possibility you can by a heavy metal detox to take once a month.
Holyshit can’t understand a word he said but i get it….
Chemtrails are a weather manipulation operation by the NEW WORLD ORDER using regular military people to carry out chemical spraying on civilian populations using low range bioweapons, also as a means to move moisture collect it and redistribute it as a weapon in other remote areas.  They tell the soldiers they are helping thwart global warming.   Soldiers do not question orders and this is a major flaw in military people, besides their willingness to receive bioweapons and they are told they are vac.

Chemtrails – genocide!   Join petition on an investigation of chemtrails: thepetitionsite.com/7/investigate-persistent-contrails-aka-chemtrails

The chemicals (metals) in chemtrails work together with the haarp, once these chemicals are ingested for years it is much easier to control people’s thoughts, courage, fight or flight response and proper judgement.  Just look at how crazy ppl are acting these days?  There have always been lunatics in public but the types of acts of todays looney tunes are unprecidented and unusual.

Filios Puttana.

Simply scary!  Thanks for posting.

Chemtrails Are: Persistent lines of chemical-infused aerosol spray dispersals from typically unmarked planes which are now seen in the sky all over the world. Unlike normal jet contrails formed from water vapor, chemtrails spread to form a thick blanket of cloud cover, held together by polymer fibers until they reach the ground, contaminating crops, water supplies and humans with radioactive soft metals and dessicated red blood cells which contain active human pathogens.

Ah. So “URAterrorist” is a sock-puppet of SERIOUS BULL, as the above is a word-for-word cut-and-paste of his!

Chemtrails don’t exist? Watch this vid.  Experimental Biological Chemical Spraying(chemtrails?)

Does anyone know how a cloud works?  It is condensed moisture.  As a jet flies, it produces exhaust.  Very hot exhaust.  This hot exhaust condenses as it is cooled by the upper atmosphere, creating a sort of artificial cloud.  If you believe in this chemtrail story, then you are a grade “A” follower, and an idiot.

Sorry to say it, but it’s public knowledge now.  It has nothing to do with conspiracies.  It’s weather modification, and it’s funded by the US State.  Please, before you start flaming me, at least google it.  I wish I was wrong.

It is more than weather mod.  AbouttheSky.Com. Plus, read CFR’s own documents… cryptogon.com/?p=7709
Explain the nanotech biologicals containing dessicated blood cells, 24 viruses, anthrax, and many other nasties. Is that for the weather too?

I only preach what is proven, mate.   No offense, but unless I can prove it, I’m not going to push it.

Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

What is unbelievably dumb, is someone who thinks contrails and chemtrails are the same thing.
 Yes any idiot knows that contrails form at high altitudes and low temperatures.  Chemtrails however, form at ANY altitude and at ANY temperature.  There are 4 seasons where I live.  Chemtrails form in ALL of them.  I’ve only been watching this anomaly for 10 years now.  If they don’t spray all night, my morning BLUE sky turns completely WHITE EVERY afternoon.  This may be your memory of normal, but not mine!

He doesn’t know the stratosphere exists.

The weather is usually “controlled” by salts, not chemical aerosols, as far as I know.  Anyone else know?

The thing you’re talking about is called cloud seeding.

After many years of fighting the Global, Chemtrail Operation, I have found only ONE WEAPON that is effective against them. That is an Orgonite CloudBuster. This simple yet powerful device, breaks up and repels Chemtrails and it restores and maintains natural cloud and blue sky. You can learn to make one on U Tube but I bought mine ready made.  I have 12 work’n hard.  Now my neighborhood sky stays BLUE while surrounding areas stay WHITE! Buy Yours@CTbustersdotcom and SEE The Change In Your World!

I wouldn’t call the above a white lie…

Please read cryptogonDOTcom/?p=7709
From the CFR’s own documents…
“1. Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere
2. Add more clouds in the lower part of the atmosphere
3. Place various kinds of reflecting objects in space either near the earth or at a stable location between the earth and the sun.
4. Change large portions of the planets land cover from things that are dark such as trees to things that are light such as open snowcover or grasses.”

Chemtrailers are just stupid, delusional, paranoid cretins.  Sad.

Ok I need to mention something…  I saw this on another video and someone responded saying: What we are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying human beings they train in plains that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.  The weight barrels and over abundance of electrical equipment stocked head to toe in there are there for pilot training. I dont know whats true…

Those tanks are used in test aircraft for centre of gravity adjustments.   Test pilots need to fly the aircraft on the extremes of what’s possible so as to keep “normal” pilots within the safety limit.  And rather than to risk people or have to carry around with lead bricks they use these large water tanks and shift the water around through the piping to shift the centre of gravity for testing.  The electronics are to record flight parameters.

You’re a bad ass.  Finally a voice of reason.  I thought for sure the illuminati, the reptilian overlords, morgellons or Orgonite was responsible.  About three weeks ago I stumbled upon chemtrails and I haven’t stopped researching yet.  I just keep getting deeper and deeper into paranoid, delusional, craziness.

Now wait up a sec….  Like what the other guy says even if this video is nonsense it doesn’t rule anything out…  btw I have been researching morgellons for about a year.  I first discovered it and spent 2 weeks straight looking into it.  In that time I’ve read every single website that aims to disprove and discredit the “condition” as well as all the sites that try to prove it.  After weeks of first studying it I have no choice but to conclude for now that this disease is real…

Check the CDC site bro they been studying Morgellons for 3 years and they STILL haven’t said a word about their findings.  I must ask… It takes 3+years for them to tell us that these fibers are hair’s/fuz? See for yourself – they have NO suggestion – stumped.   The biggest website dedicated to disproving morg (odd?) is a site called Morgellons Watch ran by 2-3 people who create/debate evidence.  Ever since CDC started they disabled their comments section as it was always filled with angry morg sufferers.

Don’t listen to explanations from anyone.   trails should not be in the sky.   thats it.   this video means nothing.   what we see in the sky DOES mean something.  demand answers and documentation.

I’m not saying that there is nothing.  I’m just answering gulesh question.  Why should nobody listen to a correct answer?  You yourself are demanding answers but you’re not listening to them.  Bit weird don’t you think?

Orgonite counters the harmful effects of chemtrails. Simply place a small piece of orgonite between the layers of the foil in your hat.

Revolt300 said “don’t listen to explanations from anyone…”  Especially if they are coherent, logical statements made by professional people who are more intelligent, and know more about the subject than you.  Only listen to statements made by people who are just as delusional as you are.

If you listen to some corrupted scientist (more intelligent than you, know more about the subject etc but he’s a corrupted nwo agent) who is covering the spraying operation you’d feel more informed?  Sometimes you have to think by yourself.   There are weird white planes that spray something on us all around the world.  You don’t have to work at the Nasa to see that lol. Do we have to wait the day they spray blue or red shit to say “it is not normal”?

oltomee, you poor delusional paranoid cretin, Chemtrails? You gotta be kidding! ROFLMAO at you clowns.

A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.

haycarambaaaisback said ” A- U r just plain stupid.  B- U r one of them.”
Yep.  You got me.  I’m “one of them”.  I’m one of the many intellegent people out here laughing at your ridiculous “chemtrail” videos.  And as far as “stupid” is concerned, I’d say that people who think airplanes are spraying chemicals on them to depopulate the earth are the truly stupid.  That’d include you, Sparkie.

if you can prove it right.. go on.   if you have proof it’s not true.. good.   if none of the above.. shut the fuck up and go fuck your mother until she’s dead.  if she’s dead, go dig her up and stick your tongue on her motherfuckin pussy.  you don’t know the truth, and you don’t know otherwise.  don’t play smart dick. hehehe…

Now calm down.  I’m not some agent or scientist.  I’m training to become a commercial pilot which gives me a reasonable understanding about what happens with planes and contrails.  IF chemtrails were to be real i definitely don’t want anything to do with them.  But atm I am just not convinced by the evidence you guys are providing.  But i’ll check up there if i get a job 😉


the government can do what they want to human beings and do not have to tell us as long as what they’re doin is classified as testing.

So, Middle-eastern musicians are behind ChemTrails?   Whatszup with that?   Geeze…  Peace, Sprite.

pay no attention to these videos.  they spray our skies around the world.   no permission and without mentioning it.  the sky is fine the way it is.  nothing more is needed to be said.   especially in the states.   is america not a democracy?

USA is now a Fascist Dictatorship.  Don’t you know?  Educate yourself man!  George Bush ends the Democracy all around the world man.  Go research, Television is the main tool to make people fool, in order to implement the World Slavery!

We are a Constitutional Republic last time I checked, though it would not appear to be in todays events.

see the first line written into the Stone Henge sized Georgia Guidestones…..and then tell me these are not real…
I know why don’t the anti-chemtrailists hire a fucking big hot air balloon and go up into these clouds and breathe as deep as they could, just to prove us wrong.

speeder757, better yet, chemtrailers should hire someone to go up and do some testing on these persistent contrails that they claim are “chemtrails”.   Chemtrailers make the claims, they’re the ones who have to “prove” that there’s a “clandestine spraying operation”.

Give me proof they aren’t chemtrails, it’s just words so far no proof from contrailist either, trust me I don’t make decisions without the facts.  convince me I`ll be the first to agree they are contrails but no one so far has, you’d be the first.

I think you’re having a problem grasping the simple logic of our situation.  It’s impossible to prove something does not exist, it’s nonsense to even suggest it.  Therefore, the onus is on the Chemtrail believers to prove that Chemtrails DO exist.
Fact – Contrails exist and act the same way they have acted for more than 50 years, youtube search “newsreel battle of the bulge” for tons of persisting and grid contrails from the 1940’s.
Now prove that persistent contrails today are different.
“Newsreel: Battle of the Bulge” at 6:08 to be exact, tons of persisting and crossing contrails from 1945.

I would know the difference if I see vapours from the engines and I could live with that it is contrails.  No one should take the word of something unless they research it and all possible avenues are exhausted untill you can come to a competent decision on your own, even then question yourself if it’s correct information you’re getting.  Now if I see spray nozzles there would be no question as to chemtrails, thats why observing with a telescope might be the only way.

i’ve seen these news reels but i’ve also seen a discovery channel documentry on chemical warfare and saw shots of planes dumping clouds of chemicals and testing the results on animals.. this was during the 30’s – 50’s…   Also weather mods need to be taken into consideration thats also been a viable technology since the 30’s…  In the UK we flooded a town testing it way back then…

What’s a Chemtrail? Seems Interesting.

Has anyone else noticed a ceasing of chemtrails in their area? Out here in LA, on the westside, there have been no chemtrails for over two weeks.  They went from very heavy application for a long time, then nothing…

In Vancouver BC they have been getting progressively worse.  I have never seen them so bad.  I see them every day.

Man just watching these movies and reading your comments causes the loss of brain cells how could any of you survive this long in life with the IQ of a Fern?

LOL ! 🙂

Your comment is an insult to ferns worldwide.  Even a plant has more inherent intelligence than the average chemtard.

You got to be a complete retard if you can’t see these “contrails” don’t fade away into the humidity because they are aerosols and make false cirrus clouds and fog the ground with chemicals.  Like they don’t spray people, tell that to the agent orange victims.

WOW, you are far off there…  my father was in an Agent orange area and VA taking care of our troops…   now they admitted what they did.  It’s way different in a war zone.  It doesn’t make what they did right, but they owned up to it…  our govt’s not perfect and in many cases yes, screwed up, but it’s not dropping chem on us in everyday situations.  Go see a shrink and get fixed.  If not, then move out of this country if you don’t trust them…  get your head whacked off in Iraq, or somewhere similar, and realize what you had.

i would say the same to u, realise what u have, for soon it will all be gone and something new will come, and the time for us is coming fast, it all has begun for u, so sticking around in the US for the next years is maybe not the best place to be.
-Obama – building a civilian army
-Fluoridation of ur drinking water (to slow u all down)
-house market crashed
-dollar will collapse soon
-us/canada/mexico become one (=EU)
-FEMA camps
u don’t think there are chemtrails in the rest of the world?

huh? is this a language?

eugenics is alive and well . They love soft kill weapons that can’t be traced and make you sick so they can sell you medicine to cover the symptoms and you end up in debt and they take it all in the end when you die…  I love the flag wavers like firegiant…  took many years for the govt to admit to wrongdoing over agent orange.  learn some more history.  Forced sterilizations were performed on american women from 1909 till 1945 for women thought to be unfit mothers.

Syphilis was given to blacks as an experiment.  aids is man-made.  azt was given to aids victims and it sped up the process of dying. where the hell did morgellons come from?  The victims think it’s chemtrails.  What about the bees dying en masse? No bees, no food.  GMO foods affect the dna in your gut.  It’s frickin’ endless and the fda does nothing!  go have some aspartame…  enjoy!  It’s all coming to a head.  I’m a vet by the way 74-78…  Now our troops are exposed to depleted Uranium.  look it up…

yes, flag wavers, we mean nothing.  we are cannon fodder for the big boys playing war games.  Its all about the money.  Always has been…  here’s a heads-up for all who are reading my rant. The dollar will tank between nov 5th and march of 2010 according to predictive linguistics which has a 75% accuracy rating.  Better have a 6 month supply of food, at least.  get a couple 50lb bags of rice and beans.  better own silver or gold depending on what you can afford. Hyperinflation is coming soon.  good luck!

see his profile for my rebuttal.

This is the Boeing 777 LR prototype.  Look it up in airliners. net.  The notice has been photoshopped in.  THIS IS AN IN-YOUR-FACE LIE.

jihad now, jihad now, jihad now.

Ive seen those newsreels too.  Yes they are compelling, but newsreels can be doctored.  Hell, I’ve seen a truck turn into a robot in a movie.  That looked real.

You guys – if you had ever bothered to do legitimate research you would know these are normal ballast tanks for simulating the weight of passengers in new aircraft prototypes.  All prototype passenger airliners use them.  You can plainly see them on film of the very first 747 in 1969 long before 1996!
Not a shitty doctored photo stolen off the net with “sprayer”‘ and “Hazard” added using photoshop, but the real thing.
at 6:41

at 1:05

Also watch this video at 5:51 mins in

Such old films show how farcical the claims of Chemtards are, and show their almost total ignorance of even the most basic aspects of aviation and science and meteorology.

The favourite concept of the Chemtard is the “persistent contrail” normally prefixed somewhere with the thought-stopping “scientifically proven.”

No, the favourite concept of the chemtard is “just look up at the sky”, the same mindless principle that made people think the sun revolved around the earth for millenia.  Chemtards don’t understand science.  They don’t understand anything much which is why they believe in the hoax and have no idea what their eyes are seeing.

I’m a pilot and this are not contrail, it’s more than vapour than simple minds may think.  Not normal for sure.

i know they are not normal.. because i cough up blood and have difficulty breathing about 3 hours after they pass by … sick bastards.

The chemtrails are hide our 10th planet Nibiru. This is also the reason the govt is now classifying all asteroid events.  this is the warning for the war of armageddon which will see Russia, China and the SCO destroy America on 10-10-09.
News here: (3w) . docstoc . com/docs/6519605/WarNews
btw – gregorca is a paid govt liar. dont argue with the liars.

Said with such conviction too.  But the date has passed!  Are we at war?

AntiLieGuy—1st degree Chemtard.

I agree with you, he is a liar.  I don’t know about government liar, but he certainly could be a disinformant. Not agreeing with chemtrails, but his arguments against chemtrails are “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  That’s not an argument, nor is it a debatable fact, it is a series of opinions.  People tend to take opinions as facts – so he is a decent liar.  But not good enough.

You cannot go into a debate with chemtards, because there is no foundation for debate.  You won’t debate with someone who tells you earth is a disk and not a globe.  So it is perfectly reasonable to say (and, therefore, not discuss with them) “chemtards are wrong, chemtards are stupid, chemtards don’t know science.”  It may be an opinion, but it’s a well-founded one.

“chemtards” = chemtrail deniers
There is an obvious difference between chemtrails and contrails.  Contrails fade, chemtrails spread out into smoke-like formations and often create chembows.  Contrails don’t.

Ah, vaccineshurtbabies…  interesting.  Please explain why that makes you sure that longer lasting and smoke-like formations that last behind an airplane are chemtrails and not contrails! 
The only thing that is obvious is that there is different behavior in contrails.  Or what about clouds?  They look also like smoke, can last very long and influence the weather and there are may different types of them. Uh, I am scared of them!

You know that the atmosphere is not a monolithic formation?  It has different layers, with different conditions, airplanes are flying at different altitudes, there are so much variables that can influence the “behavior” of a cloud or contrail and if you consider them, the different behavior of contrails from time to time can be explained by more rational means than a conspiracy theory about governments polluting or sky on purpose!

Sorry, but that’s the problem with chemtards: their minds seem to be so simplistic that they cannot imagine that the world is far more complex than their minds and everything that looks strange must be made up by an evil world conspiracy.  I do not want to insult anyone, but please, if you do not have the brains, shut the f*!? up and deal with and talk about topics that you understand…

and how is this going to hide a planet… seriously…


Looks like you guys are being exposed, hey DUDE? You can try to deceive all the morons you like, but some of us know too much. Perhaps name-calling makes you out to be highly intelligent, and beyond the ENLIGHTED ONE.  However, try as you may, you will only persuade the weak minded clones.  We who track air pressure, humidity, moisture, and temps know the games that the world militaries, and new world order governments play.  PERHAPS YOU WORK FOR THEM.

You are right I cough blood as well!
more people need to become aware of chemtrails, its so obvious.

There is no money for we need, oh money is so tight, gotta stop this funding, gotta take more funds for humanitarian good.  No funds going here, less going there.  But I’ll be damned they got LOTSA LOTSA money for this poison!  Can U imagine the money we could have for the good of others – instead of using it on this?

HAHAHA Where are the thousands of pilots, crews, air traffic controllers, airport employees, chemical producers, loaders, plane owners, repairmen, and hundreds of other jobs?  Basically at least a million people worldwide would have to be in on this with none of them breaking silence for it to be true.  Yes there are chemicals that come out of the back of airplanes, from fuel combustion.  Contrails appear differently in the sky depending on the atmosphere.  Sorry to ruin your little fantasy story.

“Where are the thousands of pilots, crews…”
Interesting point.  The fact remains that chemtrails are real.  I have seen quite a few myself and they’re obviously not contrails.

WOW. Another telling point slides right off the tinfoil hat.

Thanks for sharing.  Altho we never know that this plane was never used for spraying on people. We now have some good proof they try to hide it.  Why else would they rebuild an commercial plane that is far more expensive than an industrial plane. With no windows on the side for example.  Thanks for sharing.

I recognize the style here.  This point I have seen made in the original Italian.  Voidows is an originator of this fraud.

It was never used for spraying people.  It’s a test aircraft.  Those tanks are ballast tanks used for Centre of Gravity shifting so different loads can be simulated without putting people at risk.  Do some research before you blindly believe every Youtube video.

Talk about brainwash.  Of course they use it for lots of different stuff.  But thinking it’s only for the GOOD of mankind is really believing everything so-called officials say and not searching any further than that.  I did a lot of research already and am still busy with it.  Ignoring and saying it’s not true ain’t research dude.

Dude…  the picture of the inside of the aircraft is taken from Airliners.net.  It’s a prototype Boeing 777-200LR.  This actual picture is from test aircraft WD001.  The 2 signs were photoshopped in.  Says something about the trustworthiness of your fellow researchers.

OMG I know that.  I know they r used for more stuff.  And i know there r people that make scams.  But just because they give you a reason why they use it.  Doesn’t mean the other reasons r impossible or faulty.  There’s more than enough proof around.  It’s not just this movie.  This movie proves it can be done and it is done.  What is this with you people?
 100 people talk about some unknown.  And 1 person says it’s not true and you all believe that single person.  What a brainwash.
Show me the official site then were these pictures were taken from and edited by an editor.  
Since you know for sure what you say you must have proof to back it up.  Or did YOU only watch youtube movies and listen to your teachers at school.  And watch wikipedia?  Show me the pictures without the altering of it.  Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.  It is all seamlessy fitting together. Pls give link because i don’t believe you.

A fine bluff!
“you must have proof to back it up”  Where are your proofs?  “Because i have screened these pictures after you told me.  And i can’t see any abnormality in it.”  And you are an expert in image manipulation?  The one who is believing the wrong people, is you!  You listen to people who have no real evidence, just weird speculation.  They accuse people of polluting our sky without either evidence or proof.  The defendant is considered innocent until proven otherwise…   And you have no proof!
I most certainly have proof.  The original was taken by William Appleton.  Go to airliners.net.  Search for William Appleton in the top righthand corner of the screen.  And then it’s picture 8 on the first page of results.  You’ll have to do it this way because you can’t post links in youtube comments, unfortunately.

LoL..  Just stay in your BOX of thinking mate.  It doesn’t matter.  Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  And yes i have a master in digital editing for your information.  Why do you answer a question with an question?  I ask for the real pictures and proof of your words you said. And you ask me that question again?

I do not ask about proofs for pictures.  I asked for proofs for chemtrails!  These pictures and fabricated videos do not prove anything.  It is OK to question things, but it is not OK to neglect the obvious answers and create a world conspiracy from the most illogical and unlikely explanations.  This is … sorry, I cannot find another word for it… silly.  You are the one in the BOX, because you only think about chemtrails as being real!”  “Even when i bring a shipload of proof you still won’t believe it.  “OK, bring a shipload of valid unquestionable proofs that are scientifically grounded or based on eye-witnesses (and just seeing a plane creating a contrail is not evidence for chemtrails).  Explain how the logistics for chemtrails work, explain the motivation for “spraying” and explain the physics and chemistry.  The question here is not about faked images, so maybe you are discussing the wrong subject regarding your profession.

thanks gliderwick i will look into it.   Tacco you simply keep saying the same stuff as i asked you.  This is my last entry since we won’t come to an agreement like this and it only gets worse.  I believe something and you believe something.  Let’s respect each other’s choices okay.   Thanks for responding Tacco and Glider.  Without debate we will never get smarter.  Thanks a lot.

So tacco i was right the picture is not altered in any way.  I looked at the picture what spiderwick told. It’s precisely the same one.  Do you see any bees for example around the last years.  They pollinate the plants.  If this stops the plants will go extinct.  That’s a link to the chemtrails. And Germany has openly admitted that they were testing chemicals to alter the weather for war practice. There is much more to see and read then only a few youtube movies. And pls open your mind tacco.

Voidows slid smoothly out of that one with a successful misdirection.

Germany has openly admitted to using Chaff.  The translation from German to English is misleading.  There is no mention whatsoever about chemtrails in that one.  I must admit that there is something happening with the bees.  But that can have many other reasons than chemtrails alone.  These chemtrail movies are not good research material.  There are people out there deliberately altering pictures and videos to prove their point.  And i must add that the picture was altered.  The black writing above and below the piece of paper on the wall was added.  Where he claims it says Sprayer and Hazard inside.  And the label on one of the tanks which he highlighted says Load Bank in the original picture.

Google this: Leaked DEFRA Papers from the U.K. Confirm Chemtrails Usage Real!

…misleading title…  …defend your credibility…  Interesting info, though!

And to think, you American fluoride-drinking people are so dumbed-down already that INSTEAD of complaining & doing something about this chemtrail spraying that occurs all over the USA…  you simply watch baseball and do absolutely NOTHING!   WAKE UP PEOPLE!  Cut the crapola on irrelevant stupidity and do something, ANYTHING to stop this!  That goes for you goofy Canucks 2.

Nazi Germany used fluoride in the camps to make prisoners docile. Yes my fellow Americans are heading for a major wake up call that will dwarf 911, since the government planned 911 anyway.

Christ Mr Canada you really need to tighten your weed control laws.  Keep your nutter ass on the toilet.  I seen this before.  What you are looking at is the inside of a training aircraft.  Before pilots start flying humans they train in craft that are filled with liquid, weight, and shift measurments so every movement of the pilot is categorized and graded for his piloting course.

you’re right!  its all about weed control laws!   believe it or not!

Why do they do that, do they spray some viruses or what?

It’s the tin foil hat brigade!  This is a plane used for testing WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION ON A PASSENGER JET.  They pump water around the tanks to simulate different passenger seating plans to make sure the plane is safe to fly.  It’s funny how desperate illiterate hippies have to believe in something “bigger” than them (like an evil government conspiracy at every turn) -when 99.99999% of people already know where the photos and videos they stole ORIGINALLY came from.  It’s the tin foil hat brigade!

LOL, just lol!

When an a/c is new, you need to test its performance with a weight equivalent to a full passenger load.  So they mount small tanks in place of each seat, and pump them full of water – which stays on board for the whole flight.  What we’re shown here is a prototype or pre-production a/c.  If you wanted to transport or spray chemicals, you’d use fewer, larger tanks – more efficient, obviously.

Wow, the follies of developing a prog